on wind. i never understood wind. i know wind mills very much, i've studied it better than anybody, i know it's very expensive. they're made in china and germany, mostly. very few made here, almost none. but they're manufactured tremendous if you're into this, tremendous fumes, gases are spewing into the atmosphere. you know we have a world, right? so the world is tiny compared to the universe. so tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. you talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the air, right some spewing. whether it's in china, germany, it's going into the air, our air, their air, everything. >> you know, i missed part of that. was he talking about himself? i'm completely confused, but that's the president over the weekend west palm beach, florida. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, december 23rd. with us we have political writer for "the new york times" and

msnbc political analysts nick confessore. republican strategist and msnbc political analysts susan del percio. reverend al sharpton and president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haass. and katty kay is with us along with represent communication strategist and msnbc political contributor rick tyler. so it may be a holiday week, but the news does not stop. just consider all these new developments, newly released emails show that a request to withhold funds to the country of ukraine came less than two hours after president trump's july perfect phone call with the ukrainian leader. that adds a new layer to nancy pelosi's decision to withhold

the articles of impeachment from the senate, perhaps new information could pour out. it seems to by the day. plus, pete buttigieg has been taking plenty of heat from elizabeth warren, and now bernie sanders is piling on. what it says about the state of the race and just how far democrats are willing to go against each other or maybe against buttigieg before facing off with president trump. the president, meanwhile, is focused on his democratic rivals, but also on a christian publication which urged its readers to take a hard look in the mirror when it comes to supporting the president. it was staggering news and it continues this morning. we'll talk about that just ahead. but we begin with more on what jonathan swan was just reporting for axios in an exclusive interview. president trump's former national security adviser john bolton is sounding the alarm on the administration's north korea policy. bolton criticized his former

employer telling axios, quote, the idea that we're somehow exerting maximum pressure on north korea is just unfortunately not true and that the white house should take the, quote, unusual step of admitting that its policy failed. bolton's candid remarks come as north korea is threatening a, quote, christmas gift which could be the country's first test of a long-range nuclear missile. according to the u.s. air force's top general in the aisa-pacific region. president trump and north korean leader kim jong-un have met three times since 2018 but have so far failed to reach a deal on the reclusive country's nuclear program. richard haass, it feels like the press's bluster is much like the big bad wolf. it hasn't worked and it sounds like john bolton is compelling him to say so. why? >> well krir, i can't speak for

bolton. it's not that the u.s. policy hasn't worked, mika, things have gotten progressively worse over the last three years. they have enough material for between 30 and 40 nuclear weapons. they've been regularly testing their shorter range missiles. the president says he doesn't care about it. obviously japan and vae dsouth do. they have learned things that they can apply to their longer range systems which can reach us? meanwhile, what are we doing? we're pick angie noing an enorm saying unless you five times pay the amount for what you pay for u.s. force there's, we're going to rethink the entire relationship. plus we've canceled all sorts of exercises. it's not that this policy hasn't worked, we need a lot more than an apology. what we need say new policy. we need a new policy towards south korea and japan, a more

supportive one, and also russia and china who are increasingly breaking the sanctions that be meant to pressure north korea. >> and katty kay, these meetings the president has had have been these public relations disasters with the, you know, american and north korean flags behind them and all this pomp and circumstance, and ultimately nothing. perhaps a setback. >> in a way why not talk? but you have to get something if you're going to give north korea that kind of legitimacy. kim jong-un liked those photo ops he got with president trump, the question is what did president trump get in return? we've had leaders in the past, i think kim jong-un's father aulds alwa always wanting attention. i'm wondering if this is what skun doing at the moment, i've

got a christmas gift for you, everybody's preoccupied about impeachment, they'alk about me. do you think it could be serious this time? is this real bite behind this threat? >> if he follows through with it it could be an incremental increase in his missile capability. i don't think he'll take the big step of resuming tests of nuclear weapons themselves. i think there would be an awful lot of bite and not just bark and that would put him much more on the defense because the chinese would not want that as well. my hunch is he's looking for something int mete mediaermedia >> well, perhaps bolton is trying to have him get in front of the narrative. certainly kim jong-un would take any opportunity to humiliate an american president. and trump has given him that platform. we'll return to this, but we've got much more to get to. the christian magazine that

called for president trump's removal is defending its decision decisito speak out eve the president's evangelical supporters speak back if the was from crihristianity todd who called the president immoral. >> i'm not really speaking politically, i'm making a political judgment about him because that's not our expertise at "christianity today." i'm making a morally jungment that judgement that he's morally unfit or it's his public morality that's unfit. anybody in leadership has -- none of us are perfect, we're not looking for saints. we do have private sins, ongoing patterns of behavior that reveal themselves in our private life that we're all trying to work upon. but a president has certain responsibilities as a public figure to display a certain

level of public character and public morality. >> well, now the president's -- the magazine's president and ceo is speaking out in an editorial published yesterday, he writes this: let me protect against two misunderstandings. the problem is not that we, as evangelicals are associated with trump, the trump administration's judicial appointments o its add video casesive life, family, and religious liberty. we are happy to celebrate the positive things the administration has accomplished. the problem is that we as evangelicals are also associated with president trump's rampant immorality, greed, and corruption. his divisiveness and race baiting, his cruelty and hostility to immigrants and refugees and more. in other words, the problem is, the whole heartness of the embrace. it is one thing to praise his

aco accomplishments. it's another to deny and excuse his misbehavior. they signed on to a letter to the magazine's president that said your editorial questioned the spiritual integrity and christian witness of tens of millions of believers who take seriously their civic and moral obligations. it is up to us and those evangelicals like us to decide if we should subscribe to, advertise in and read your publication online and in print. but historically we have been your readers. the president attacked the magazine in a series of tweets on friday, one calling it a far left publication and vowing never to read it again. another tweet reads, quote, i guess the magazine "christianity today" is looking for elizabeth warren, bernie sanders or those of socialist communist bent to guard their position. how about sleepy joe? the fact is that no president has ever done what i have done

for evangelicals or religion itself. rick tyler and then reverend al, i'd love to hear your take on this. it seems, though, that supporters of "christianity today" and those who are writing in against it are deciding to take a very blind eye to what "christianity today" and the editor and chief is trying to say. they can support some things, but any can't, like, wholeheartedly embrace everything this president has done. some of it which has been highly immoral. why is that so hard to see? >> well, good morning, mika. thank trump for god. god wouldn't be able to get all these things done if it weren't for trump and that seems to be the position he has fantaken. they have overturned the table on the money changers in the temple courts and they've disrupted their business models. i know that hurts to hear for a lot of people, but a lot of this

is about money because they raised money off of -- off the judge issue, off the life issue, and all those things could be great causes. but, you know, they want to have this issue and trump has given them judges. but what they're saying is that the ends don't just fight means. and this president has demonstrated beyond doubt now, according to many people in chrissian knit "christianity today" that his character and moral behavior is not suited to be president. and the most important thing, i think, is that for christians when you uphold trump as some sort of pair goragon or virtue, know they're not saying that, but they're saying this is the person we want to uphold and keep as president because we're getting the things that we want, it zrdestroys your witness. it tells people who are nonchristians, and nonchristians can be equally as moral as

christians, that christianity is a farce, it's not real, it's not true and if they uphold trump and essentially endorse his behavior, because there's very little that's said about the things that trump says and does, take for instance the latest attack on the widow from michigan whose name escapes me at this very second. >> debbie dingell. >> i've heard very little outrage about that. and so "christianity today" is saying this person is morally unfit to serve and it's not a political statement at all. it's a moral statement. >> and, reverend al, what's your take in this personality is -- you've got this one magazine that's really calling out evangelicals in a way that nobody else can. which whiis saying who are you what is it you support? why is it that they can't support the two things that the president has done for them and

then wholeheartedly push away everything else that he stands for because it goes against what their core beliefs and core values are? >> we had the editor of "christianity today" on politics nation last night and he made it very clear, this is not a political position, it's a moral one. and by raising it to that level and putting it in that perspective, he not only exposes the president, but he exposes a lot of the evangelical leaders saying i support the president on his judicial nominees. i support the president on a lot of things, which i don't, but he does. he says, but you can't get away from his immorality, you can't get away from his divisiveness, his lying, his race baiting. he laid it out. i think there's a scripture that said what profits a man to gain the world and lose his own soul, he's actually challenging them that are you bargaining and selling your soul for some judicial appointments and some other things that the right

wants but you've given up the soul of the church? what do we stand for snand th? k i think it's a devastating blow. this is a magazine that was founded by billy graham. they also supported the impeachment of richard nixon and bill clinton. so why all of a sudden is it so controversial with these leaders that they would come for the impeachment of donald trump when they did it to bill clinton, evangelical weren't insulted. when they did it to richard nixon they weren't. the reason they're so offended is it's exposing all of them that they would take the shameless con man over the principles that they're preaching in the holy season as we celebrate jesus, they would sell jesus out if they felt they could get something from it is the inference he's saying from his editorial. and that's sad on many levels. >> but what is he giving them that is -- what am i missing, susan del percio?

what is he giving them that would be worth even an attempt at selling their souls and selling everything they stand for? what? is it money? is it access? i mean, i do remember looking at some christian broadcasts where they keep talking about going to the white house and different anchors having access. is it access? what is it that is so consuming? what is it that is so desiring to them that they would throw away everything they stand for? throw away their morals? >> because they had someone in the white house that they believe will champion their cause. the problem, of course, is that donald trump has no core values so he just listens to what other people has to say, he's not going on what he believes is right because he doesn't know what's right or wrong, he just goes to where he thinks the votes are. and it's always been that way with donald trump. if he's on the fly, he has a 50/50 shot of trying to make someone happy and say the right

thing. and it's very important when you look at that editorial, these were not personal failures of the president that they were judging morality on. these were his failures as president on immigration, on children in cages, on race baiting. these are the core principles -- and when the impeachment specifically, not supporting the constitution, in fact, going against it. so it's also important to recognize this was not on his personal side, but rather on what he has done as president. >> nick confessore, i'll just take the president's comment and turn it into a question. is there a -- is there a viable option on the democratic side for an evangelical who's becoming sick of trump and is looking for alternative? >> certainly. you know, think there's a bunch of candidates on the left who could -- some of these voters. it's obvious this was a core constituency for the president. it's people who are going to be

strongly with him in 2020, you know. but there are some voters there who might take heart from this piece of writing and say, look, perhaps this guy is right and i should reconsider support of the president and consider if he is truly in accordance with the values that i profess as a christian. so it's possible. >> it's possible. still ahead on "morning joe," president trump has a lot happening on capitol hill. he is set to deliver the state of the union early next year, just as senators could be weighing impeachment. we'll talk about that dynamic just ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. listening and observing are critical skills for scientists at 3m. one of the products i helped develop was a softer, more secure diaper closure. as a mom, i knew it had to work. there were babies involved... and they weren't saying much. i envisioned what it's like for babies to have diapers around them.

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president trump retweeted vladimir putin supporting himself and just think about that for a second. frightening on many levels, but let's give you some context. democrats are using newly released emails about the halt of military aid to ukraine into calling witnesses at the senate trial. the emails show that on july 25th, 90 minutes after the president's controversial phone call with the president of ukraine, the white house fired off an email to the pentagon to hold off on releasing the aid. the white house also wanted to keep it quiet with budget official mike duffy writing, quote, given the sensitive nature of the request, i appreciate your keeping that information closely held to those who need to know to execute the direction. duffy is one of the white house officials who refused to comply with house subpoenas to testify in the impeachment inquiry. now democrats are hoping the emails will help bolster their

case in the standoff with mitch mcconnell. >> this email is explosive. a top administration official, one that we requested, is saying stop the aid night 1 minutes after trump called zelensky and said keep it hush hush. what more do you need to request a witness? >> as for the email about the ukraine aid, the white house budget office released a statement claiming, quote, it is reckless to tie the hold of funds to the phone call. as has been established and publicly reported, the hold was announced in an interagency meeting on july 18th to pull a line out of one email and failed to address the context is misleding and inaccurate. but nick confessore, what the democrats want to do is provide context. what they're hoping is that mitch mcconnell will help them to do that by allowing witnesses

at a senate trial and while this might be explosive and another key piece of information that really lead up to laying out the clear steps toward a crime being ch committed, what would it take? is this the kind of thing, piece of information that would compel mitch mcconnell to change his position? >> it's fascinating. the argument from the white house and the president's defenders are the democrats and the media are miscontextualizing and misleading and don't have the full story and yet at the same time they've run a blockade against having witnesses and emails. and i believe this email was gotten in a lawsuit by an outside group and dropped on friday evening classic time for a news dump. if they want the full context and want to prevent some misunderstand trrg stands misunderstanding, it stands to reason they should provide some context and witnesses and a senate trial would be a great

place do that. the answer here is more information is probably not good for the president which is why it's important for senate republicans to keep that from happening. >> susan. >> i think another interesting thing in light of these emails is you want to figure out why nancy pelosi held off on sending the articles to the senate, it may be just so that we're having this conversation to make the public more aware of the fact that the white house is not allowing people to testify. we know the polling right now is in the mid-60s that people want to see what the witnesses have to say. so this -- this dialogue for the next two weeks could be very important and helpful to the democrats in seeking -- getting some kind of negotiated deal. >> and then to this. just before heading to florida for the holidays, richard haass, president trump retweeted a link to an article on friday where russian president vladimir putin defended him against

impeachment. trump tweeted, a total witch-hunt as he shared "the associated press" report entitled "breaking russian president vladimir putin says u.s. president trump's impeachment is farfetched and the u.s. senate will reject it. so the president is retweet ailing tweeting a tweet that has vladimir putin supporting him. they praised trump's six-page letter to nancy pelosi calling him a highly educated writer of multiple best sellers who wrote the letter for future generations. richard haass, there's so many concerning things here. [ laughter ] >> it is fun. >> i where do you start? >> it's funny but it's painful because when you think about just how much stock this president has put in vladimir putin right before our eyes, even during the election, even after the election, and during

this presidency all roads lead to putin and he does it so open that i sometimes we laugh. and i worry that the american people see that as it being laughed off because it's not important. explain why it's important. >> well, it's important because russia is an adversary in so many ways. they invade countries in europe. they use force and brutal ways in the middle east. and they interfere in electoral processes, not just in our country, but throughout europe. they are an adversary. they are a serious adversary in many ways. what's stunning here, though, we've all reached a point where we're basically numb and you think nothing can surprise you. ye yet we're all shaking our heads here. it's not that the russians would say that, that doesn't surprise me. that's propaganda and what they do. what surprises me is that the president would requote it and retweet as though it's an objective observer with

credibility and integrity. what he's doing is he's going to the people who are behind everything and he's basically using them to justify his position when any objective observer would say that makes the situation worse and what you're in a hole stop digging. instead, rather than stop digging he's doing it. which says something also about his base and probably says something about his take on where the american public is, that people don't care where -- who's saying what. but just if you hear something positive, then it works. so i think it's also a real indictment, a real statement about where we -- where we are as a society now in dealing with all of this that we're not -- we're not -- any critical facilities of long ago have been -- been jettisoned. >> and members of his base may not care. they may show up at his rallies and just love that the president's there and they can do their screaming and clapping for him. but, katty kay, i would think

our friends and allies around the world would care and how do you think this impacts not only our relationships, but our represent t reputation and why does that matter? >> one of the most notable things about the trump presidency so far is the degree to which mr. trump either through withdrawing influence around the world or giving a pass to president putin in areas of the world has allowed for the rise of russia. and whether it's in the middle east or europe or central europe, and that's particularly concerning. if we're at a place where some powers are pulling back the united states, others are going rise. and donald trump seems to allow russia to rise. what's interesting is the grooi degr degree in which the republican party has fallen in line with him. the republican party used to be the party that felt that russia was the aggressor and therefore retweeting comments and praise

of yourself from a russian president would have been taboo amongst republicans in the past. it would have been something they would never do. but this president doesn't have that. and you would think that having had so much criticism because of his relationship with president putin and the prospect of russian interference in the 2016 election, he wouldn't do this. but there's a disa dense theiss there. i don't white know what the strategy, if there is one is for him, he clearly doesn't care that vladimir putin is something he should not be touching and he's happy to double dund retweet messages of support from him and his party doesn't care either. >> coming up, president trump found himself at the center of a number of the year's biggest legal stories. we're going to count down the legal stories of the year straight ahead on "morning joe." straight ahead on "morning joe."

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all right. we're counting out the top legal

stories of the year and the president seems to be involved in so many of them. joining us now, state attorney for palm beach county, dave ehrenberg. i guess the top story, dave, would be impeachment, correct? >> clearly, clearly, mika, because the ukraine scandal led to impeachment, which has only happened twice before in the united states history. and even though impeachment is seen as a purely political process, there's a legal component to it. after all we're waiting for the senate to decide if it's going to call witnesses in this trial and we're looking at the senate majority leader in cahoots with the lawyer for the defendant, president trump. and from a non legal perspective, a non trump legal perspective, i would say that top stories would be the opioid lawsuits and the college admission scandal. purdue farm agrepharma agreed t settlement.

and the college admissions scandal reminded us how power and privilege can help rig a system that was already a bit swampy to begin with. you add to that the image of felicity huffman in jail you've got a block buster. >> what about some of the other parents like lori loughlin and others, where does that case stand right now? >> well, felicity huffman took the early deal and the first in is the foiirst to win. the onliers withers will face l prison sentences, especially aunt becky who decided to not take a deal and go to trial and had a payment a lot larger than the felicity huffman payment. so she, i believe, if found guilty will face years in federal pris skblon good lord. >> i'm thinking about the purdue pharma case chin vites to us

reconsider our notion of what a drug car at the time telelootel how many people from the president's world have been picked up or indicted in that investigation? is that the top of the list sore it impeachment? >> well, probably impeachment although a lot of things did come out of the mueller investigation that were very significant. i also think the ongoing legal battles between the house and the president on document release and having people testify in front of the oversight committee as well, that is going to be something we're going to see play out and being extremely significant because the supreme court decisions on those issues will tell us where we are as a country for decades to come. >> i think that the reason it is also significant is it will really in the long term define or redefine the balance of power. because we're really talking about whether or not the executive branch will have the right now to overpower or ignore

or marginalize the legislative branch. i think that that is why that say key legal story this year, because the ongoing ramifications of however this turns out is going to be something going forward on how we interpret the constitution. we're really talking about the executive becoming king. if he's allowed to say, no subpoenas, no documents, i don't care what you want, i'm above you. and that has serious implications that started this year. >> dave, i want to talk about a story that really came about due to some incredible on the ground reporting by a number of reporters but especially by the miami herald where they stayed at it even though they were pushed back on so many levels and where power has just seeped through it and it seemed to have even perhaps twisted the fate of this story. and that's why there's so much more reporting that needs to be done. and that is that jeffrey epstein

case where we have so many young women, girls, who are molested by powerful men brought to his island, brought into his home, brought into his life with this woman who's sort of a madam working with him with names from prince andrew to bill clinton floating around but never scratching the surface on some of the most powerful men in the world. but, yet, jeffrey epstein somehow after going to prison mysteriously dies? there's missing videotape. and talk about the other possibilities of what could come out if the information could come to light. because this man was pro liffli and from what i've read, he kept a lot of video tapes and he kept pictures and there's a lot of men that want all this information to go away. >> i think the investigation continues because there was conspiracy charges at play here. so the jeffrey epstein case is not over yet, even though is he dead. and i think you're correct that

the miami herald did some great reporting in exposing some of the mistakes made by prosecutors at the state and federal level from years ago. but, remember, it was also the federal prosecutors in the southern district of new york that filed the charges against jeffrey epstein despite the existence of a 2007 nonprosecution agreement. it's the southern district of new york that i think will be a theme for 2020, otherwise known as a son of district of new york because they also are the ones prosecuting rudy giuliani's friends lev and igor, and think that rudy may be next. >> mika, here's another thing i don't understand about the epstein case, because i agree with you, i think it's one of the most extraordinary cases of this year because so many powerful other people are implicated. but i don't -- there must be documentation on this. they must have flight manifests. we must be able to know who went to that island with him. records of who -- phone call records, records of the powerful men that he was in contact with.

lots of names have been surfaced throughout this process and the press but we haven't followed up on a lot of those names yet. i want to see what they've got in terms of evidence in this case. i can't believe they haven't got a pretty good picture already of who was implicated, who was doing what with him and who saw what. >> so, dave, what are the chances we'll ever see those flight manifests? aren't they -- aren't they -- aren't they access nabible in s way? >> i think that federal prosecutors, since they are investigating and state prosecutors in new mexico apparently are involved, that you will see evidence come out probably in the next year involving the jeffrey epstein case. he may be gone, but the case continues. and also you have victims out there who are filing civil lawsuits against jeffrey epstein's estate. all that involves discovery. so i think that you will get more information. as far as what's going to happen next, it's hard to say. but i believe that if you're one of the alleged coconspirators, that you may be calling your lawyer right now because i think

that 2020 your day of reckoning is coming. >> absolutely. and also in your purview, the mar-a-lago pr mar-a-lago trespasser, a lot less important but significant. where does that stand? >> you had two cases. the first one was a conswriction in federal court and the individual has since been deported. the federal government never charged spying, although there were some secret filings that indicated there may have been some spying going on. now there is a current case, a second mar-a-lago trespasser, and that case is currently in my jurisdiction. it's been -- it's a state case and because of that i can't discuss it. i can only say that the feds have not charged yet in that matter, it's just a basic trespassing case and i think more information will also come out against that. one thing you need to know is that it looks like the chinese government may have some sort of campaign going with private individuals to do some snooping on to american places like, for

example, naval air force fwhas key west. you had 19-year-old chinese student show up as an airbase to take pictures. he was sentenced to a year in federal prison. it should not be viewed in an isolated context. >> thank you very much. we'll be following all of those stories. up next, "morning joe's" producers visit the the hard-hit bahamas just days after hurricane dorian. we jft juust sent them back for look at the recovery. and that snext is next on "morn joe." next is next on "morning joe." maria ramirez?

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everything's just ruined. >> it's okay. >> where were you? >> i was by my cousin's house and that was the only roof in the neighborhood that stayed on. everyone came to the house. it was like 80 people there.

and then my grandma, i had to go get her because her roof came off. it was just -- the pressure, the tornadoes, it was awful. everything's just -- everything's destroyed. everything's flattened. if it's not flattened it's just destruction. people don't have homes, people don't have food. people have never experienced anything like that in my life. i pray nobody ever has to again. >> back in september, we shared our reporting on the unthinkable devastation of abaco island during hurricane dorian. thanks to the generosity of "morning joe" viewers, that week project hope saw over $1 million in contributions to aid their relief of their residents. now "morning joe" medical contributor dr. dave campbell and the "morning joe" video team bring us a look at the post

dorian recovery efforts. ♪ >> the disaster happens, the news cycle jumps to attention but inevitably moves on. for those at the epicenter, it's not that center. upon returning to abaco eight weeks after dorian, one might think that the hurricane touched down just two days prior, not two months. we spoke to a number of people and caught up with pamela who we had first encountered the day of her rescue from abaco. >> honestly i've been home three times since the storm and the roads are cleared. the debris's still everywhere, people need homes, people are still here that i know that are in shelters. a lot of people don't know what they're going to do, where they're going put their kids in school, where their next paycheck is going to come from because they don't have jobs. >> and the recovery is almost

invisible. >> it's almost like on a stand still. it's not that much progress getting done right now. >> we're nearly two months after the storm and you can tell that the recovery's really slow going just because of the extent destruction. >> some on the island have access to clean water and food. thanks to organizations like project hope and heart to heart, but there are still a number of medical risks for those returning to abaco. >> there's limited food, limited water. the water is contaminated in a lot of areas. there's limited places go to the bathroom. and then if someone gets particularly injured, there's not the facilities right now on this island to take care of them. they have to be airlifted off. >> to think that even after a traumat traumat traumatic ordeal as dorian, you could lose something else. >> the ngos on the ground have been crucial in the effort restore short and long-term care

for both acute injuries and chron chronic diseases. >> right now we're at a critical level of just meeting their needs and meeting the bridge until the bahamian administration of health provides us with more local staff and physicians. >> i think it's provided us with a great cushion, which in some aspects has been a blessing. but also a curse at the same time because we've been comfortable getting back to a sustainable health care delivery system outside of where we used to be. now it's on us, that support to us to make sure that it happens. >> for some islanders, the situation is even more complicated. disasters hit the impoverished the hardest and not everyone is welcomed back in the community as they rebuild. >> the only thing the government's concerned about is cleaning up the illegal community. that is heartbrokening. government need to stop immigration, harassing these people in front of churches and in the hospitals. >> this was one of the poorest

communities. and so when there's an evacuation order they can't sflie where and snagtaying in a hotel. >> the no matter who you are on the island, they face a long road to recover. >> i some have to start from ground up. some of us got lucky, just a few roofs, maybe a window or two blew out. but some people entire house is on. >> most of my friends and family, they struggle for their life and most of them are homeless on the road. and those who do have a home actually need materialstor actually restart their life. >> is it tough on the kids? >> yeah. >> their mental health? >> yeah, they have a lot of nightmares, a lot. >> our life post dorian is very different from people that just watched and, oh, that's a bad thing that happened. we experienced that. that's a bad thing that happened to us. and we are most grateful for all the help that's coming thus far. but we still have a very long road ahead.

>> gosh. thanks to dr. dave and the "morning joe" team for bringing us that look at where it stands now. reverend al, your thoughts. >> i think it is, first of all, very, very important that we show after all the media and attention is gone where people are living and trying to survive and exist in abaco. and when you see what project ho hope and other ngos are doing there, that's what we should be focusing on the holidays. the good samaritan hope of christ is real. in the bahamas where people look at as a playground, for people to be barely able to hold on, i think it really challenges us on who we really are as human beings if we don't see this as not a playground, but as somewhere that needs our help because, thank god, it didn't hit us with climab change could

>> coming up, john bolton calls on the trump administration to admit its policy toward north korea has failed. and still no movement in the standoff over the senate impeachment trial, but democrats are hoping newly released emails about the freeze of military aid to ukraine will help their case. "morning joe" is coming right back. their case. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪music (children laugh and scream) (dog barking) ♪music it's the final days of the wish list sales event. hurry in to your lincoln dealer today

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you can give help and hope to those in need. does president trump still believe that it was ukraine, not russia, that interfered in the 2016 election? >> chris, it doesn't have to be an either or, it can be both. but that reporting was miserable reporting by the "washington post." we requested $250 million in aid to ukraine. if congress did its job and completed their spending bill on september 30th, we would have had it then. >> you said it doesn't have to be either or. forget the question of russia. does the president believe that ukraine interfered in the 2016 election? >> he thinks that we should at least investigate it, chris. >> you say, well, we should still investigate. every major u.s. intelligence agency says it was russia that interfered in the election. during the house intel committee hearings, a member of the trump -- let me finish. a member of the trump national

security council fiona hill said this idea that ukraine interfered in the election is kremlin disinformation. so why does the president think it's still worth investigating whether ukraine did something? >> why don't we want to try to find the bottom line and answers? >> we're not questioning russia's interference, i'm accepting that. but it doesn't mean that just because russia interfered doesn't mean others did as well. >> but they're saying, fiona hill, that the whole question of ukraine is russian disinformation and, in fact, according to reporting you may say it was inaccurate, putin supposedly in a meeting they had in germany told the president that it was ukraine and he apparently said to some people in the administration, putin told me it's ukraine. >> i read that again reporting in the "washington post." i never heard that. i believe that there can be just because you're saying, you know, my house was robbed last night means your house couldn't have been robbed last night. it's quite possible that both, interfering in elections so why not investigate that? >> wow, that is pure trump.

just trying to devalue the truth and say, well, it could have happened. a russian-backed conspiracy theory could have happened. vice president mike pence's chief of staff marc short there when pressed by chris wallace on whether president trump still believes ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. and if there is no indication that happened, the question is why can't they say it? must they do that for vladimir putin? is that what's required for putin? that's the question. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, december 23rd. still with us we have political writer for "the new york times" nick confessore. republican strategist and msnbc analyst susan delaware percio. host of msnbc's politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. and president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. washington anchor for bbc world news meeamerica, katty kay and

msnbc political contributor rick tyler. and joining the conversation, senior editor for national review and bloomberg view columnist. and professor of international politics at the fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tuft's university, daniel drezner. we'll start with hans nichols live from west palm beach, florida. hans, what's on the administration's plate this morning and the president's conspiracy theory about ukraine -- well, putin's actually -- that continues to be put out on sunday interviews and other interviews the administration holding strong on that? >> and one of the per vieweurvi that has been rudy giuliani over the weekend. you get the sense that the president is going to get a lot of different inputs when he's on holiday at his club where he can

feel at home and talk to all kinds of people. look, as for the agenda, the white house, the president has a decision to make. potentially to -- i'll get to in a second. the question is do they want a short trial or long trial in the the president hinted on saturday night that he thought it was good, it was good news that nancy pelosi hasn't transmitted those articles of impeachment to the insigsenate. we have a staring contest between chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell. he with don't know if they're talking, we have this big break here. but the white house is clearly divide on this. when you look at all the emails that came out in that omb document dump, that's the indication and the perils of waiting. if the president waits on this and if he wants a complete exoneration, which means a long trial, you could always have more information coming out that could alter the course of this investigation of this impeachment. so the folks that want a short trial, they may have benefitted a little bit on friday night when this document dump came out

from omb. and the other subject i think is on a lot of people's mind and i'm sure richard has points on this as well, but north korea. you've got those comments from john bolton last night. the president needs to make a decision on if north korea tests and it's possible it does, a lot of intelligence is indicating public and flieprivate that the could be some sort of test or launch. we don't know what form it will take and we should hedge like it's perspective, but the white house needs make a strategy. the strategy was let the president handle it. the president is confident. or, as john bolton's saying, you admit defeat and the maximum pressure campaign isn't working and personal diplomacy isn't working. that would be a remarkable step back for this president. but he may be fornsed ced by ev to alter his strategy on north korea. that's something we'll all watching. all of us that want to have a quite christmas holiday are watching that. >> hans nichols, i'll take that right to richard haass, to hans'

comments, but the president's foreign policy looking, "a," failed as it pertains to north korea, he and, "b," based on lies as it pertains to ukraine. not good. richard. >> north korea, the whole goal was dlnenuclearization. the president declared that they no longer posed a nuclear threat and the bottom line is it poses a much more nuclear threat today than three years ago. the president inherited a difficult situation, but he's overpromised, overdeclared and underdelivered. and now the challenge is not to acknowledge that it hasn't worked, but what you to put in its place? what would a more realist economy policy towards north korea? we ought to stop picking fights with south korea. we need to resume military exercises. we ought to head off a north korean test by warning them about the sanction these would face. i think we need to look at things like enforcement of existing sanctions. we may need to slightly rejigger

our relationship with china to put this back at the center rather than tariffs. this ought to be a moment for real review. because this isn't working and, mika, just think about it for a second. north korea probably has three dozen or more nuclear weapons. it's only a matter of time when these weapons get better, they put them on missiles with greater accuracy and range that north korea, along with russia, along with china will pose a strategic threat, an existential threat to the united states. we may be a few years away from that. so this is not some side issue. this is a real national security threat to the united states. and we've got revisit it because to declare that our zbgoal is denuclearization, that's a wish. that's not a strategy or policy. >> and if these tests happen, the president is, daniel drezner, going to look pretty stupid. what do you make of the comments by john bolton that the

president might want to admit that the policy has failed? >> well, i think we need to be honest here. first of all, is john bolton saying, hey, i'm john bolton, you should pay attention to me, which he's been trying to do ever since he left office as national security adviser. but at the same time, this is also an area where clearly he had a fundamental disagreement with the pris in terms of tesid deal with north korea. he inherited a bad situation, the problem is that he has somehow managed to make it worse, which is impressive when you think about it. despite claiming there had been success with summits and so on and so forth. there's clear evidence that north korea has proceeded with its nuclearization and the development of ballistic missiles, and at the same time the administration has managed to alienate just about every other ally you would need to deal with north korea.

is no, i we' so now we're in the situation of where it's the worst of zblorl worlds. >> i can just ask you, daniel, am i overdramatizing the concern over a high-level white house official going on national television and when faced by a conspiracy theory that's being peddled by the russians, that official going, anything is possible, it could have happened, dohappene happened, do you see any concern there in terms of kpa whawhat e he's doing? >> this is where the trump administration succeeded in, frankly, lobbying so many lies across a whole wide variety of areas that in a lot of ways a lot of americans brush this off. trump has claimed so many different things that are wrong, you know, wind mills causing cancer or the fact that the

obama administration somehow wiretapped his campaign. you know, the list that i think "the washington post" has now support to 13,000 misstatements. this is yet another one. >> right. >> the real problem is that, as you say, the -- if your position in the administration is, well, you know this could have happened just because, you know, we don't have any evidence doesn't mean that it didn't happen. that applies to almost anything. you know, i'm sure the trump administration could claim the north korea's actually denuclearizing after this test. we can't necessarily disprove that. so the real problem is we have an administration where if they say that the sky is blue outside, you still need to go outside to confirm that. >> so there are new details on the newly released emails about the hold on military aid to ukraine. the emails show that on july 25th, 90 minutes after the president's controversial phone call with the president of ukraine the white house fired off an email to the pentagon to

hold off on releasing the aid. the white house also wanted to keep it quiet. budget official mike duffy writing, quote, given the sensitive nature of the request, i appreciate your hope keeping that information closely held to those who need to know to execute the direction. duffy is one of the white house officials who refused to comply with house subpoenas to testify in the impeachment inquiry. the white house budget office released a statement claiming, quote, it is reckless to tie the hold of funds to the phone call. as has been established and publicly reported, the hold was announced in an interagency meeting on july 18th to pull a line out of one email and failed to address the context is misleading and inaccurate. ramesh, you wrote a piece for the review entitled four tests for impeachment where you outline the obstacles that congress needs to overcome in order to impeach and remove

president trump from office. and you write in part, quote, first they should have to show that the facts they allege are true. second, they should show that the fact pattern amounts to an abuse of power or dereliction of duty by the president. third, they should show that this abuse or dereliction is impeachable. and, fourth, they should show that it is prudent for congress remove the president for this impeachable offense. that it would produce more good than evil. if the advocates can scale all four walls, then a majority of the house and a super majority of the senate ought to remove the president. if any of the obstacles proves insurmountable, the president should be allowed to serve out his term in office. in the current controversy over president trump's conduct toward ukraine, it just so happens that each successive wall is higher than the previous one. so, ramesh, where are those who are pushing toward impeachment,

where are they not passing the test? >> well, i think that the tests have been passed and i ultimately conclude after looking as dispassionately as i could at the evidence, that the fact pattern is there, that it did amount to an abuse of power, that abuse of power is impeachable, and that given in particular the president's habitual unwillingness to distinguish between his personal interests, his narrow political interests, and the public's interests, the national interests, that he ought to be removed from office. so i think that the case has been made, which really interesting is that president trump refuses to allow his party to try to regroup around something defensible to allow them to say something like, look, this was a mistake there are was really a bad thing that he did, but let's not remove him from office. he won't give an inch. if you look at than i sathat in

that he wrote last week, he says not only it was a perfect call, he uses the word perfect again twice, but he says repeated that i nobody even sincerely thinks he did anything wrong. it's all a conscious political plot against him. >> so i'm struck there by the contrast by the bill clinton impeachment where in the end everyone agreed he had done something bad and the public was against the behavior but also against the impeachment. but i have a question for you. it probably took you at least a few hours to think through this article and write this opinion column and go through these steps. how many members of the senate do you think right now are going through a similar process right now with president trump and the potential for conviction? >> well, i would just say that if you look at the senate oath on impeachment trials, they pledge to do impartial justice. i don't know whether there are more than a handful of senators

in either party who are taking that oath as seriously as jurors take their responsibilities in terms of being willing to do justice regardless of whether it's what their party needs. >> it's rick tyler. i'm curious just about the feedback, blowback, if any, that you received that was similar to the editorial that was written in "christianity today." you are -- you have now climbed over the wall and you are a prime target as a conservative. are they going to now claim that you are not a conservative, that you've always been left wing, you've always been a liberal? >> well, if you criticize president trump, particularly if you criticize him frequently, you can either be dismissed as a liberal democrat or a never trumper. and so there's no need, if you're inside the sort of trump bubble to take any kinds of criticism seriously. and i'm sure that that is going

to happen, that's happened a little bit on twitter and facebook already. but, you know, it's -- when people deploy mostly add hom anyone attacks against you, i think it tends to suggest that they don't have a substantive answer to what you're saying. and i think, again, if you look dispassionately at the evidence, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that president trump has abused his powers. >> ramesh, it's susan del percio, i couldn't agree with you more. but one of the questions i have is we know that president trump really responds to poll numbers. what can be done to really convince the american public to see the facts that you laid out and, perhaps, get them to at least demand that we do some sort of, you know rern coura, e witness testimony? >> most people seem to be dug in on both sides and the polling on

president trump's approval hasn't really changed much. hasn't really changed much for years now. so i think at a certain point you have to step back and say, let's do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. i do think that it's important for the people who are advocating impeachment and removal to not try to respond to political games with their own political games. so if you think that the senators are not going to do their constitutional duty, i think it's a little bit too clever to hold up the impeachment articles. >> all right. thank you so much. we'll be reading your piece for the national review. and daniel on his fourth pillar, the fourth wall, and trying to explain why this impeachment needs to happen, why it's important for america, explain what's at stake in terms of our national security.

>> i mean, in that sense where this president has gone further than any other president in terms of violation of his oath of office is he essentially was using the organs of the state, the power of the federal government, to coerce another foreign leader into doing something that in no way, shape, or form advanced the national interests but rather advanced i had own personal and political interests. and that's unprecedented. and so -- and furthermore, what's equally disturbing is that he seemed do this based on a conspiracy theory that had no foundation beyond the rather shabby words of rudy giuliani and his accolades. so it's not just that he was, you know, trying to coerce another down the advance his own political game, it's that he was relying on such awful information and did not trust his own intelligence, you know, officials that he was willing to go in this direction.

that he's so insecure, he's so, you know -- his ego is so fragile about the fact that he barely skated to victory with 55,000 votes, that anything that questions that legitimacy he simply cannot accept in his brain and therefore is willing to go to these kinds of outlandish lengths in order to somehow secure his time in office. and furthermore, this is all about not 2016, but 2020. and so part of the reason that impeachment becomes necessary and the trial becomes necessary is that this is a president who feels like, "a," as was said, did he nothing wrong and, "b," that he will continue to do this. >> richard haass, i'm going to ask you to take it a step further, because nancy pelosi really wants to bring the american people along with this and help them understand. and i don't think it's been communicated -- and daniel even just made some incredible points. it's unprecedented, it's disturbing, he is relying on bad

information, he's an insecure person. but trump supporters or people on the side of trump and there forte republicans who will be worried about getting re-elected, they don't care about that. that doesn't impact them. how does this impact our national security? how does this impact the everyday american? what's the precedent that would be sfent this presideent if thi left unchecked for shakedown a foreign government for dirt on his political rival? >> whether they agree or disagree with the president and what he did here, if he can get away with this there's the question of what he will do between now and the election as well as what he'd do if he's re-elected. checks and balances are at the heart of our system. there's the question of the precedent he will set. we can't -- a runaway imperial

presidency is a threat to every american citizen because it means the presidents can start doing things that would be bad for each and every one of us. i think there's the other national security aspect as well, there's often the most important part of foreign policy is not what we say, it's not what our diplomats do, it's the example we set. we're in a competition for ideas. we want others around the world to look at us and say that's a system we respect if the we trust the united states. we see the united states as dependable, predictable and reliable because you make policy through a process and a system. and if something like this happens, respect for us plum et cetera aplummets and it sends te sense that we're not reliable and that we can turn on a dime because we're about the whims of one individual. that's dangerous in the world because we have to be predictable. that's what allies depend on and we need our enemies to respect. and this puts all of that at risk. >> it doesn't just put it at risk, but it creates an image of

the united states as in chaos, slightly incompetent, not able to get its own house in order, preaching something that it actually doesn't practice at home. and the country that really benefits from this, we know, is russia. president putin is a master at trying to sow discord and doubt about other democratic systems and countries. he's done it in the european union. he does it could nstantly in th european union and he's benefitting from this idea that the united states is weakening during this process. even the whole impeachment process probably benefits vladimir putin because it's another area in which the united states looks like it's internalized, it's at odds with itself and nobody can agree. all of that which putin who has a weak hand at home, benefits from around the world stage and domestically too. >> and probably xi jinping as well. everything you just said applies equally to china and to xi

jinping. >> all right. daniel drezner, thank you very much for being on. we'll be looking out for your new book coming out in march entitled theed toler a entitled the toddler and chief. and as we go to break, a live look from hong kong where protesters are gathering yet again, some of who are waving an american flag. still ahead, it's a jarring cover image in new york flag's latest issue. a man in a klan's robe with the heading a year in america. a new look inside a growing terrorist movement. that's next on "morning joe." i terrorist movement. that's next on "morning joe." t so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. delicious. now, i've heard people say lactaid isn't real milk. ok, well, if it isn't real then, i guess those things over there can't actually be cows. must be some kind of really big dogs, then.

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go beyond the expected. to do the extraordinary. take your business beyond. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, new york magazine's editor and chief, david ha david. he's here to discuss inside a growing terrorist movement which features a photo documentary by

portfolio by mark petersen. in the issue, the poet introduces peterson's photos writing in part this, his look at contemporary american confederacy and white nationalism shows us our neighbors in other robes. the people portrayed are living among us in every region of the country, in our workplaces, in our government, on social media, and for some, in our homes. their culture is made up of both rallies and private rituals. we see their homes, streets, and schools that these are also our streets and our schools and our neighbors. and, david, just i guess we should start out by talking about putting klansmen on the cover of your magazine.

i asyme that's somethisume that didn't take lightly? >> no. we spent hours debating if that was the right cover. the project was a complicated one to put together. it's covering a loath smssome g of people that want the attention and why are we giving it to them? but this felt impossible to convey without a striking cover. it was interesting, especially to us, the picture we chose was taken in bucks county, pennsylvania, not far from new york and part of the power of the project is that it looks at white supremacist activity across the whole country in rural and urban areas, southern and northern states. so ultimately it felt impossible not do this cover. >> so what was the principal argument for going with the cover and going with the story as a cover story? >> well, over the summer we were produced to this work as it was coming together.

but our photo director had been in touch with mark and he had decided to take it upon himself to really explore in an ambitious way white supremacist activity that's taking place all across the country. and that in itself was interesting to us because mark was taking on a project that, you know, greater intensity than often. but we this did a lot of research ourselves to make sure that this was newsworthy. there's always been some fringe white supremacist activity in this country's history. but as it turns out, over the years and es specially it year it has increased strashllyubsta a portfolio like this can walk you through a year in america

and demonstrate in its totality something a bit scarier than just isolated incidents. >> i think, david, this is important because it's like roaches, they grow in the dark. >> right. >> you need to put the light on them in order to expose it. and i think that coming on the cover of new york magazine, not coming from people that head think tank groups on the left or civil rights group like me, i think makes americans look at this is a growing problem. you have schools now where students have gone to school wearing kkk uniforms and celebrating this. it is becoming to normalize. have you gotten any clapback for people for the idea of putting this on the cover and denying that, in fact there are was a growing problem in the country? because data shows that the white supremacy movement is, in fact, growing. >> i think the data's impossible to ignore.

and the department of homeland security in september had recently just classified domestic white supremacist terrorism as an elevated threat. so there's a lot of just substance behind our argument. i'm sure there's been some pushback, it hasn't gotten to me yet, but it's monday morning. >> so your colleagues are reporting on this as well to understand the context, you know, for these images. i think an important question is, though, what is the new? what can we learn? tell me what you think that the reporting showed about the link between what's happening in the white house, what president trump says on the one hand and the growth of this more fringe movement on the other hand. >> right. it was important to us to report out and not just interview the subjects. we did that, but we also put some deep captions into this piece and james walsh did a lot of reporting speaking to experts. i think that what anyone will tell you is that first of all,

the movement is splintering. it's not just dominated by the kkk but there's over a hundred white supremacist activist hate groups in the country right now, national. and there is a clear uptick in activity since trump's been elected. there's also, by the way, a clear uptick since barack obama was elected. so you just see this deep american story of an ongoing cockroach problem that gets -- that can flare up in times of a galvanizing presidency, in times of a president that scares these people. but it's -- it's clear that people who are worried about american domestic security are paying attention to this in a way that they hadn't before. >> did you come away, david, with any sense of what their agenda is in the near term? like over the next couple of

years given this uptick, what they might actually do? >> i didn't, really. and i wouldn't say that it's an organized movement. i mean, the splintering is similar to what you would see in any, you know, global nationalist movement from the was one person we spoke to in the movement who predicted that -- or who thought that the trump administration was actually quieting them down because it gave -- it gave their sympathizers a false sense of progress. in that sense he was sort of rooting for a more dramatic conflict. i think that individual probably enjoyed the, in a twisted way, enjoyed the obama presidency more. but it's hard to tell what any of them are looking for. i think it would be a mistake to imagine a rationale or political point of view. i think it's an organization or belief system driven by very

base feelings. >> but at the same time, you're looking at this, david, in light of what? a resurgence? an emergence? and what is the connection to the trump administration? because there are stories and concerns about members of the administration who promote some of these points of view. >> absolutely. >> outwardly. >> yeah. i think in -- it's an extraordinary fact that we have an administration that is very comfortable with the sort of fringes of this ideology. and is not very interested in staring it down and calling it for what it is. i think that's a pretty extraordinary moment in american history. at the same time that the department of homeland security and the fbi are just forced to acknowledge this as a growing

problem, there's attention within the white house that i think is actually pretty interesting. >> but we have stephen miller in the white house. >> yeah. >> that has retweeted some had the group stuff down through the years. and you have, i think, 25 rabbis came out this week call for him to be removed from the white house. i mean, so when you talk about this is the neighbor next door, when you can see a stephen miller unpunished, when you can see others unpunished, the neighbor next door starts becoming more bold because he's no longer marginalized, becomes normalize and that makes it more dangerous for blacks, jews, la teeb kno tinos and others. >> and there's one that has some contact with stephen miller, but it's fascinating to understand the organism, you know. there are, you know, teenagers out there who aren't thinking about this at all.

there are so-called intellect walgs intellectual writing think pieces trying to influence a very powerful administration. >> all right. the new issue is a provocative one. new york magazine's david, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> and coming up, donald trump could probably take a break from attacking his democratic rivals since they spent the weekend attacking each other. a 2020 update next on "morning joe." a 2020 update next on "morning joe." at fidelity, we make sure you have a clear plan

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39 past of the hour. we can add senator bernie sanders to the democratic candidates taking on mayor pete buttigieg for his napa valley wine cave fundraiser. >> we don't have a super pac. we don't want a super pac. we don't go to rich people's wine caves.

[ cheering ]. >> this is a campaign of the working class of this country by the working class and for the working class. >> since the photo surfaced before thursday's debate, top surrogates for sanders and his campaign have criticized buttigieg for the event. campaign members even wore t-shirts referencing the wine cave in the spin room after the debate. this marks the most direct attack launched by the sanders' campaign against a democratic candidate in the race. so, my question for you, nick confessore, is pete buttigieg must be a threat. they're going after him. >> absolutely. we're that the stage where all the candidates are trying to find someway to get some leverage over the other. i will just point out, look, if you are a senate democrat in this race, you have benefitted from fundraising by the senate

campaign committee. and that money is often raised in the living rooms and summer homes and perhaps even the wine caves sometimes of wealthy people. and the people who are giving money to get senate democrats back into the majority are hanging out in places with rich people and in the hamptons and martha's vineyard. so i think that if you're going pull this one thing out, there was a lot of ammo to go around at all the candidates in the race who have been involved in national politics. >> i thought it was very unfortunate. i was at the debate and i thought it was very unfortunate when i was leaving that pete buttigieg in many ways got beat up more than donald trump a day after trump was impeached. i mean, the debate took place a day after the impeachment and they spent as much or more time on mayor pete than they did on trump. and then you hear over the weekend that elizabeth warren once had a fundraiser for senate

where she gave out wine to those that gave a certain amount. so, i mean, where does that end? the fact is, as you say, nick, all of them have been the beneficiary of some kind of fundraiser of these types of people, if it wasn't direct. the issue is that whoever wins the nomination, you're going to need to do a lot of fund raising if you're going up against somebody like donald trump who is going to have a juggernaut of money. i think they're creating an issue based on them trying to get ahead of each other in the polls and not looking at the long-term goal. and that is being empowered to beat donald trump, you're going to need all the help you can. you shouldn't cross ethical lines, but clearly this is about how you decide to raise money. and all of them have directly or indirectly benefitted from big donors. >> that's right. >> yeah, rick tyler, i need some campaign strategy advice on this because i'm trying to understand why this is an effective

strategy. because if you look at these candidates, anyone who has met pete buttigieg is impressed by him. one could argue that what pete buttigieg needs, and he doesn't have, is sunlight. is national exposure. and this appears to give him that. >> well, mika, this is whining versus winning. the whining that's going on among his opponents is because he is winning. and the whine that's echoing out of the wine cave is hypocrisy. because all of these senators, you know, the establishment, they've all benefitted from very similar events and the money and the influence. and i thought what pete did, although some polling says it hurt him coming out of the debate, but i thought what it showed was, you know, some people say that joe biden had his best debate and i think he did. but part of that was because he was not the front runner and not taking the incoming pete was. and pete showed joe biden this is how you take incoming and

this is how you -- this is how you're prepared and this is how you hit back. and i was pretty immateripresse that. >> all right. we spoke last week with the widow of elijah cummings who's running to fill her late husband's now vacant seat. up next, another candidate vying for that office who also claims a close connection with the late congressman. that is straight ahead. as we go to break, a lot going on at knowyourvalue.com this come week. i'm kicking things off with my thoughts on why striving to be and look and act perfect can really hurt you. and is impossible. and anyone who says she is is lying. instead, i urged women to embrace the messiness in life, the curveballs, the failures, the embarrassments. take a look at that, it will make you feel better and understand that why striving for perfection is actually very unhealthy. also, don't miss our year-end

roundtable. later this week we'll look back at the iconic women who broke barriers and inspired action in 2019. that's all at knowyourvalue.com. we'll be right back. at knowyo. we'll be right back. any comments doug? yeah. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas.

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all right. joining us now, congressional capped date in t candidate in seventh district of maryland. he's a staffer of the late elijah cummings and stroung fis to fill his seat. there are a number of candidates running for this seat, fwout standouts, of course, and where it feels very personal is elijah's widow running and you. so i guess i just have to ask

you what makes you best suited for this job? >> first all of, thank you, ms. mika, for having me on your show. it means a lot to me this lot t. first of all i would like to share with everyone that he said our children are the living messmes messengers for the future that we will never see. i worker worked on housing, social security, can workers comp, and it gives me a touch to the community that i understand. i want to be that voice and the people's champion in congress. i'm runl booning for more than congress, i want to be a voice for the people. >> i just think that the question on the minds of some might be, filling elijah's seat,

and then both of you running, is this what elijah would want? and who would be best suited to understand what he would have wanted? >> i would tell you this, i'm a practitioner, i believe in democracy, and i know the congressman, if he were her, he would not want to choose between any of us, but i know because i'm a believer in democracy and myself, he would say hey, let's let the people decide, let's look at folks heart and issues and i will often tell people, and i will tell you this too, mika, i will never be elijah, but i will be the best harry spikes that i can be to fight for the finishes that he and i stood for. i'm continuing a mission, there is a lot of things wasn't able to complete. a lot of conversations that he

and i talked about dealing with the country and the district, so i want to make sure that people understand that. but he would not want to be put in the position to choose between any of us. but he believed in democracy, he believed in allowing folks to decide who would be best suited for the seat. >> harry, the president had really attacked the district that you worked in for the honorable elijah represented. explain the make up of your district and what you want to best represent if you were to be victorious and go to congress to represent that district. >> yes, sir, thank you. this district has over 740,000 constituents. we have a large part of baltimore county and hour couwa

county. affordability has been a big challenge. i tell developers all of the time i have no problem with you building a $300,000 or $400,000 house, but look at the median incomes. that is something i talk to the congress about all of the time. we have team in our district making between $20,000 and $40,000, but houses at $300,000 are being built in that country. they put things in our district that are not affordable. i want to be that champion for that because these are the conversations that need to happen. based on what you just mentioned ant chan about changes in the district. they're tired of not being able to afford things they see, they're tired of the higher tax base. housing is up with of those

things that i really want to make sure that folks see. we have a lot of people that come to baltimore, they invest in baltimore, and they made it beautiful. other parts of baltimore city that people just can't afford and i want to make sure that we tackle that. on a federal level we need to look at things like down payment systems. we have working class citizens that cannot afford the down payment for a moment, and when they purchase they have troubles with closing costs. so ip want to challenge those issues and help people who want to purchase homes. >> good morning. we learn a lot from the head of the district or the congressman elijah cummings set the tone. what lessons have you learned from the tone he set in his office and at a national level that will allow you to accomplish the things you seek

out, and what do you think would be more most important guiding principal. >> i would say this, if you listen and republican everything that the congressman said and what he stood for, all he was trying to tell us a of us to do is that everyone matters, every issue counts, everybody has a voice, and what is important to understand about that voice is you cannot leave any person behind. if you look at all of the issues we tackle every day, he wants to make sure that folks are in a position to have an opportunity to move forward. if you remember my speech, i could have been up there for hours, he wants to make sure that we continue these conversations. one of the things i do not want to do as a leader. i don't want to be 40, 50 were 60 years old and be talking

about the same issues as we talked about on 2019. i want to say we tackled an issue, we moved on, and now we're working on something else. let's tackle problems, deal with them, and move forward. the acronym for spikes is supporting people in kindness and engineering success. as a leader i'm tired of talking about the same things. so to answer your question once again he was more solution oriented and that is a lesson he gave me and a lesson that i will practice and continue to practice as i go forward. >> congressional candidate harry spikes, thank you for being on the show this morning. newly released e-mails show that

the white house told the pentagon to hold off on releasing aid to ukraine just 90 minutes after the president's controversial phone call with ukraine's president. we'll celebrate down that latest development just ahead on "morning joe."

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they're made in germany and china, but they're manufactured, tremendous if you're into this, fumes, gases, are spewing into the atmosphere, we have a world, right, the world is tiny compared to the universe, so tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything -- you talk about the carbon footprint, f fumes are spewing into the air, china, their air and our air, was he talking about himself? i'm completely confused. that was the president over the weekend. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday december 23rd. we have nick confi srconfisory,

del persio, we have al sharpton, and along with political director for msnbc rooick tyler. it may be a holiday week but the news does not stop. newly released e-mails show requests to who wouithhold the to ukraine came just 90 minutes after his phone call with the president of ukraine. new information in the impeachment inquiry pouring out.

and elizabeth warren is piling on pete buttigieg, and now bernie sanders is getting in on it as well. the president is focused on his democratic rivals and a christian publication that urged their readers to take a larhard look in the mirror when it comes to supporting donald trump. let's begin with national security, john bolton, president trump's former national security advisor is sounding the alarm on the administration's north korea policy. bolton criticized his former employer telling axios the kpi

that we're exerting maximum pressure on north korea is not true and the white house should take the unusual step of admitting that their policy failed. bolton's candid remarks come as they're threatening a "christmas gift" which could be their first test of a long-range nuclear missile. president trump and north korea leader kim jong-un have met three times since 2018 but failed to reach a deal on the reclusive country's loss. it shoulds like john bolten is compelling him to say so, why? >> i can't attack for john bolton. it is not just that the u.s. has has not worked, but north korea has enough nuclear material for

30 to 40 future lnuclear weapon. the president says he doesn't care about it. japan and south korea do, but what we're going to see in a few days is the test on the shorter range systems, they can apply them to their longer range systems that can reach us. meanwhile, we're picking an enormous fight with south korea. we're basically holding them up to randsome saying unless you only did our five times the amount we're going to rethink the entire relationship. it's not just that this pohas n worked, but we need a new policy between south korea and japan, a more supportive one and a tougher one between russia and china and they are increasingly breaking the sanctions maeneant

pressure north korea. >> and they have had public relations disasters with american and north korea flags behind them and all of the pomp and circumstance and ultimately nothing, not even a set back. >> in a way why not talk, right? that is always better than the threat of military violence, but you have to get something if you're going to give team this kind of legitimacy. kim jong-un really liked the photo ops, but what can president trump get in return. i think they always want attention, always saying hold on, why am i not -- it's like a child -- it reminds me of my kids at three and four years old. give me attention now. i'm wondering if this is what kim jong un is doing at the moment. they're talking about other things, focus on me, often in

these cases it has not turned out to be that serious. whatever he follows through with, do you think it could be this time? is there a real bite behind this threat? >> if he follows through with it it could be an incremental increase. i don't think he takes the big step of resuming tests of nuclear weapons themselves. i think there would be a lot of bite and not just bark, and that would put him more on the defense. the chinese would not want that as well. i think he is looking for something intermediate. but not to get cross wise. >> and certainly kim jong-un would take any opportunity to humiliate and american president. we'll return to this, but we have much more to get to, the christian magazine that called for president trump's removal is

defending their decision to go out. the op-ed was from the editor and chief of christianity today who called the president profoundly immoral. here he is yesterday speaking more about it. >> i'm not making a political judgment about him, that's not our expertise about christianity today. i'm making a moral judgment that he is morally unfit, or his public morality that makes him unfit. all of us in leadership, we're not saints, we have private sins, on going patterns of behavior that reveal themselves in our private life that we're trying to work on, but the president has responsibilities as a public figure to display a certain level of public character and public morality. >> now the president's -- the

ima magazi magazine's president and ceo is speaking out. he said let me protect against two misunderstandings. now that we as evangelicals are associated with the trump administration, judicial appointments, or it's advocacy of life, family, or religious views. we are also associated with president trump's rampant immorality, greed, and corruption. his divisiveness, his race baiting, cruelty and hostility to immigrants, refugees and more. the whole heartedness of the embrace, it is one thing to praise his accomplishments, it is another to excuse and deny his obvious misuses of power. meanwhile more than 100 e van

je -- evangelicals offensively questioned the spiritual integrity and christian witness of tens of millions if is our decision if we should subscribe to, advertise in, and read your publication online and in print, but historically we have been your readers. the president attacked the magazine in a series of tweets. he staid is a far left organization and vowing never to read it again. i guess "christianity today" is looking for elizabeth warren or bernie sanders or those of socialist communist fwoebent to guard their religion. rick tyler, i would love to hear

your take on this. it seems that supporters of christianity today and those writing in against it are deciding to take a very blind eye to what christianity today and the editor and chief is trying to say. they can support some things, but they can't whole heartedly embrace everything this president has done. some of it that has been highly immor immoral. why is that so hard to see. >> thank trump for god, god would not be able to get some of these things done. but look, what christianity today has done, they have overturned the tables of the money tables in the temple courts and they have disrupted their business models. i know that hurts to hear for a lot of people, but a lot of this is about money. because they raise money off of, you know the judge issue, the life issue, and all of those things that could be a great

cause. but they want to have this issue, and trump has given them judges, but what they're saying is that the ends don't justify the means and this president demonstrated beyond doubt now, according to many people in christianity today, that this character and his moral behavior is not suited to be president. >> still ahead on "morning joe" after all of those witnesses and testimony, there is still new details emerging about the white house withholding military aid to ukraine. what the time line says about that next on "morning joe." liberty mutual customizes your car insurance,

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it shows that 90 minutes after the president's call they requested the hold in the aid. mick duffy said i appreciate you keeping that information closely held to those that need to know to execute the direction. duffy is one of the white house officials that refused to comply in the impeachment inquiry. now they're hoping they will help bolster their case in the stand off with membershitch mcc. >> this is explosive. a top administration official. one that we requested a saying, stopping aid 91 minutes after he called zelensky and he said keep

it hush hush. what more do you need to request a witness? >> as for the e-mail about the ukraine aid the white house budget office released a statement saying it is reckless to tie the hold of funds to the phone call. as has been established it was announced on july 18th. to pull a line out of one e-mail and taking it out of context is incontrac inaccurate. they're hoping that mitch mcconnell will help them by pulling witnesses at a senate trial, and while it might be explosive and a key piece of information that that laid out the clear steps toward a crime being committed, what would it take. is this the kind of thing that

would compel mitch mcconnell to change his position. >> the argument from the white house and the president's defenddefend e ers, they are misconte miscontextualizing. and i believe this e-mail is in a lawsuit by an outside group and dropped on friday evening. if they want the full context and want to prevent some misunderstanding it stands to reason they should provide witnesses and documented, et cetera. and the answer here is that more information is probably not good for the president which is why it is good for the republicans to keep that from happening. >> a technology could help stamp out a devastating disease, next on "morning joe." disease, next on "morning joe.

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i would korb on a healthy mind as the same time as healthy body. >> garcia and resnic joined a study called rescue ranger. they are come patting two may your risk factors in brain health. exercise and cognitive stimulation. >> they get on the stationary bike here and they put on a virtual reality headset. we coupled that on top of cognitive training and stimulation or people might think of it as just mental activity. >> when he sees the relevant item he depresses the right or left hand break to collect it into his cart. >> for 12 weeks, three times a

week, participants ride a computer controlled stationary bike for 40 minutes while keeping their heart rates up and they memorize a labyrinth of tasks while executing paths. dr. paul measures changes in brain growth through a battery of tests. >> we're tapping into special mem they is computed in the hippocampus. so we're very deliberately a exercising the part of the brain we know is associated with alzheimer's disease. >> the disease is the sixth leading cause of death in the u.s. and one in three seniors will die from this or another form of dementia. they're hope is that this study could give more minds a fighting chance.

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it is 31 past the hour. a beautiful christmas tree in ro rockafeller plaza. joining us now, the ethics and religi religion liberty. and sarah herw eerks tz. "here all along" is her book. a deeper connection to life in

judaism and finally choosing to look there. >> i grew up without a lot of jewish practice in my home, and i kind of walked away from it, 25 years later, broke up with a guy i was dating, i had time on my hands and i heard about an introto judaism class, and i was blown away with what i found. so much wisdom about thousand be a good person and find spiritual connection. interested in the wisdom that ancient wisdom has to offer. >> what are you hoping they will take away? >> just that there is ethics in

the ancient tradition. the modern secularism says you do you but don't hurt others. it is also an adult practice to spirituality. people struggle with the image of god as a being in the sky that rewards and punishes us as we deserve. i think there is a lot of diverse conceptions of the divine that people of all faith can appreciate. >> so i will turn to you and your book. why did you write it and also what do you hope it will bring to your readers? >> well, mika i always enjoyed christmas growing up in a christian home and going to christmas eve services, and everything around christmas. and these characters that adorn our nativity sets, who are these people? we have sort of made them famous in the 2,000 years since

christmas, but in the first century they were very ordinary people swept up in the story of jesus. what i came up with is that he came to redeem people from their sins, and i think all of us whether or not you're a christian long for the world to be made right. it is not as as it should be, and that jesus came to restore and renew the world. >> i think daniel brings up a very important part. we try to take jesus and christmas out of the context of the sociopolitical atmosphere at

the time. he ended up a refugee at the time. his parents were homeless, could not find a room in the inn, i think these two books strike me as a minister having a real message that we can't live outside of the context of the era that we're in. there has always been all of there, and you take a journey back to where you started. >> i did, yes. that's right. >> tell us a little bit, sarah, about, you know, as a person that worked in the white house, as a veteran of the 24 news cycle, getting up at 5:00 in the morning to go to work. what it was like to go back in time thousands of years to rediscover the roots of your faith. >> we don't stand around at the

office water cooler being like hey, bob, what do you think about god? what does it mean to be a truly good person, right? we don't have a lot of spaces like that in modern time. so when you have thousands of years, i found it to be such an antedote to the 24/7 hectic lives we leave. >> you talk about the characters of christmas and the unlikely people caught up in the story of jesus, who are they? >> we have several, even mary and joseph, here are a peasant jewish couple. and these are the people that god chooses when he writes the

christmas store. . and you have people like the chep argues. if we were writing the christmas story we would probably have it at roam or jer ruusalem. but i think there is a message that god is sending that this kingdom that he came to inaugurate would come alongside the most pour and the most vulnerable of people with little agency and little power. >> so i want to venture in a little bit. right now it appears there was faith divided in this time.

they are calling out what they see as behavior that does not represent the christian fiaith, and now people in the christian f faith fighting over that. i wonder what you make of that given that our faith is based on wisdom, stories, on values, that should be steadfast and should cross all lines, shouldn't they. even people that don't have faith are bringing to the table a set of values and faith, and i think these are difficult decisions at times. i have good friends at christianity today, and i think they're great people over there and i have good friends who have on the other side who disagreed

with -- i think there is the evangelical community of basic core values. >> i think some people are saying that we disagree with the president's character and we do agree with the policy. others are saying there are character issues. and i think it is the difficult decisions that good people are making. the faith is not letting politics get in the way of our relationships. we should not let politics, politicians, or strong opinions not get in the way of relationships with each other. >> very good advice going into

this day, his book is the characters of christmas. finding a deeper connection to life in ju ismg aftdaism subpoe what one legendary singer said and had her unexpectedly trending on twitter. keep it here on on "morning joe."

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donate to your local y today. welcome back to "morning joe" we have a lot on the beetles because the band is one

of joe's true pashs, last month he moderated a discussion at the center for media about that iconic music moment. and peter brown was one of the -- and here is the famous rooftop concert. >> i was talking about doing concerts in morocco or anywhere. get out of here and we'll do something special. it never worked. and we decided to just go. >> doug: it here on the roof. so we set it up on our roof and we rented the roof across the road where the cameras were mostly, and that seemed to be okay and we gnt need -- but then

what happened the police had to come because they were having complaints about the roads being backed, and they sorted it out, and they asked who they had to speak to and they pointed to me, so i was trying to keep them back, and they said you have to stop, you can't keep doing this, there is chaos downstairs, and i said we're not going on for much longer, give us a little more time and they said no, you have to close now, and they said we're not going to and they said well we're telling you to, and i said we own this building, so -- i didn't know if that was true or not. but i knew we owned the building, i didn't know if we could do anything we like on

this roof. >> so anyway, we have left so we said it won't be very long. so if they came back we would have finished. >> the person next to peter brown in that conversation was another peter, award winning music producer peter asher. we recently sat down with peter for his new book, the beetles from a to zed. an alphabetical mystery tour where he recounts his add when juwhen -- adventures with the beetles. he rekounss his unique experiences with the beetles throughout their musical journey. a great last minute give if you

have shopping to do. >> i say people don't buy me anything for christmas, but i still get beetles stuff, before we talk about the beetles, you were in washington recently with linda rhondstat. there is a lot of people like me that listen to you on sirius xm and associate you with your music and the beetles, and i just want to say all of the extraordinary artists that you have produced. >> yeah, i was privileged to manage and produce her as well. and they so many fields. and anyway, i workforce linda

yesterday, for the kennedy center awards, she was getting one and she was very excited about and she said what was interesting they are given out, you know, a state development dinner where the host is the secretary of state. and he made a little peach talking about each of the artists in turn, and he talked about linda and how great she w was. and she wants to know when will i be loved. so when linda got up to make her acceptance speech that was going to be very brief, she said since the secretary asked a question,

i shall answer it, he will be loved only when he stopped enabling donald trump, and it was a major kind of -- >> good for her. >> she looked at him right there. >> she has never been one to mince words. >> no, it was delivers very low key, but with a certain intensity. >> another artist you talk about who you help develop and who you discovered actually james taylor who, just is an extraordinary artist. and you have been with him for 30 years or so. >> yes, and he did in the show business, i i thought it was crazy, and each element, an extraordinary guitar player, and

he had such a great voice, and he had a rish american folky voice, but it was all sam cook and ray charles, and i found it so irresistible. . >> talk about the kill or the gift that you have to listen for james taylor, rhondstat. >> to me it is unimageable. . that was one of my first reactions. why is this person not a guy beg -- gigantic star. i was working at the time. and at the time i met him, the

first and only a and r director of apple. and so i signed him to apple, and the beatles shared my high opinion of his work and his songs and everything else. and that is how he made the first album for apple records. >> i love how in the book you describe how you got to connect through the beatles. and of course baul dated your sister, and you have very successful rights. but they say it's in their house, and they -- but you say that and again for a kid in the hurricane, in all of that crazy

stuff, i would be guess that is all really good for him to be in that setting on the ground. >> yeah, they use the faze, and he there was a lot. that's when i mauved in and savored this for a couple of years. >> yeah, but at the time though, a young kid that was facing this extraordinary challenging time, they romanticize it. >> yeah, people like me who experience that tiny fraction of that. becoming successful ourselves, but no one can imagine what it was like to be louder than the beatles. it was a degree of fame and on section that has never been equal. >> even no u read, i think it

was a profile on paul mccartney and he would just want to go somewhere and he had to take back allies. he made that choice, and he doesn't complain about it. >> nobody gets to be famous by accident. >> or you don't want to become famous by accident. >> that is right, exactly, exactly. so i love that moment when paul had written a song, john didn't like it, and that meant great things for you. it meant a number one hit in america. >> and you're signed by someone

from newman records, he picked some songs that we were already doing in our show, mostly folky. the british invasion was based around our love for american music. he also said if you know any other good zonks you bring them along. at that time he was living in the house and i had overheard this unfinished song with two verses and no more than that. and i said it was a reject, that john thought it wasn't right for the beatles, and john thought the only line of lyrics was kind of silly. and john would go okay, the song is over. >> you talk about how you had today go to paul politely, thank

you for the zosong, and that we need a bridge, and how maddening it fsz thwas how he wrote that . >> we realized we still only had two the versions that was not enough. so i had to say, please could you finish it and eventually he took his guitar and went in his bedroom, and that was infuri infuriati infuriatingly short, it was like seven minutes. so we recorded it, went to number one, and it changed my life forever. i was a student one minute and a pop star the next. >> that was part of our interview with peter asher. we'll have more tomorrow men

when he talks about being there for the birth of one of the beatles most iconic songs n. that almost does it for us, now we have a look at the people that make "morning joe" possible. ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ >> hello there, i'm stephanie ruhle. sheer what is happening this

morning. mitch mcconnell slamming speaker pelosi for holding the articles of impeachment. appearing on fox news just a short time ago, mitch mcconnell again called impeachment a political exercise but would not say how it should proceed. >> what we need to do is listen to the arguments, have a written questioning period, and then decide if we need witnesses or not. the house went ahead without witnesses. the house could have gone to court to try to compel them, they didn't do that. they just blew through it. they invoked executive privilege. >> senator mcconnell went on to say that the entire impeachment process is at an impasse until those articles are sent over. i want to bring in jans ch