your way into the votes of women, of black people, of >> good morning and welcome to transpeople in this country. "am joy." what do you do when you're home alone? most of us at home for the you've got to earn their votes. >> that's right. >> and that's why this campaign holidays celebrate and get some much needed rest, but if you're is surging. it's not because people are looking at candidates and saying donald trump well, he's been at i just want to choose a man, i his mar-a-lago resort golfing just want to choose a woman. every day and rubbing elbows black people aren't supporting with his guests but in between black candidates. and it's because what they were all of that the president of the bringing to the table was not united states has spent his speaking to the real needs of working people. women have debt. holidays attacking speaker nanly women are dying on hospital pelosi, the democrats and even beds. women are facing discrimination the late john mccain. in the workplace. he's taken to twitter on a daily women are not able to move about basis to call democrats in society like anybody else in society. and so, until you have a hypocrites and liars. candidate who's talking about policies that say, we're going to have housing for all because we already have housing for some. we're going to have health care for all because we already have and also reigniting his beef with california's democratic health care for some. that talks about having women governor on christmas. closing the pay gap between women and men in the job, making you would think that mitch sure that women have the care mcconnell going on his favorite that they need. these are the issues that speak network and promising him an to everyday people and speak to women. and so, people are looking at acquittal would have suited the candidates and saying, i trump's spirit this week. don't really care what you look but that was before speaker like, but what are you saying, what are you bringing to the

pelosi decided not to send the table, and also, what have you been talking about the last 20 impeachment charges to the or 30 years? we have candidates who have senate until mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer come to an switched parties. we have candidates who have agreement on a trial format. chosen positions and backed away from it. and the voters are responding viscerally because we know, donald trump's ere rat i belira we've heard promises of hope and change, and we need a candidate might seem normal for someone and a campaign, and that's what's represented in the who has spent his entire sanders campaign. presidency batting democracy we are taking the political around like a golf ball but as conversation to everyday people. last week we had $1 million raised in one day in small-dollar donations. the huff post reports donald i think at some point, we've got to trust the people in what they trump is the loneliest man in are saying and they're saying they want a campaign and a america. one can see him walking around movement to the white house that stands for them. phone in hand and screaming into and i think people on the right are looking for that. the either about the democrats. >> but joy -- >> and that's what we have seen and that's what's been animated joining me now is randall pink by the sanders campaign. and yeah, some of the other people are plummeting, but it's not solely because of who they are. et and david jolly former >> but we have to make sure that this is very granular. republican congressman and msnbc we've been talking about this at political contributor. too high a level right now. randall i want to go to you you know, i mentioned this to a first. you have worked with donald few people recently -- i was trump, having won the with my mother last night in the apprentice. what do you -- what do you think er until 2:00 in the morning. ask his state of mind right now?

how do you think he's reacting and you see first and foremost in your view to impeachment and that what people are dealing is what he's doing what you with on the ground, you know? would have expected from him and when people are trying to from when you knew him? figure out, whether it be >> definitely what i would have dealing with flu, dealing with expected. i think right now his state of asthma, dealing with housing, mind is he's certainly unhinged. dealing with bills, i don't hear anyone asking me about the we see that reflected in this polls. >> that's right. >> i don't hear anyone asking me tweet storm over the past few about what's going on in d.c. they want to understand, how are days, and the proclivity he has we going to help them? and when you come from to fire back at others calling communities like ours in the nancy pelosi crazy or chuck south bronx, where all of the different communities are coming schumer crying or the democrats together, and we are afraid of do nothing. what will happen when it comes i think he's also agitated. to i.c.e. and people are wondering, why is it easy to get unleaded gas than lead-free to your earlier point being the paint? they want to understand, how are third president in history to be you helping them get a job to pay the bills. impeached i don't think that's sitting for well with his psych that is our responsibility as democrats, and that is what we're doing. and he's hyper sensitive with and i want to be clear about that, because often i hear democrats are being silent in not obsessed with how he's this conversation. we are not. too often there has to be a presented in the media and by space of, yes, 2019 is the year the press and that this will be of return. 2020 has to be about perfect a stain on his presidency for vision, and that's making it history, i know that would not very clear, here is the vision sit well with donald but also i that we believe we are going to fight for you. we are going to help you. think he is on one hand both when people are asking you to go to websites, it's not because of concerned but also comforted,

concerned by the very small some theoretical exercise, it's crack in the republican wall because those of us running for office and believe in the cause with senator murkowski which need your help to drive home the we'll see if that crack grows message that we are fighting for but also comforted by comments you, not the other side. >> let me give jyosi the last of mitch mcconnell or lindsey word, because there is a guy graham that they are going to be named adam jefferson, who i'd love to have on the show, but coordinating with the white house through the entire senate he's a tough booking, but he trial process. used to work for harry reid, so what is most comforting to great strategist and senate donald is what should be most majority leader under the concerning to us that we have a democratic party. legislative branch in the senate he said what needs to happen for and the executive branch talking the democratic party is make a about coordinating in the midst quick nomination and then try to consolidate the party and it of an impeachment trial. should be sanders or warren, that should be very concerning to all of us. because to the point i think a lot of you are making, it's the >> yeah, i mean, speaker pelosi progressive wing of the party has made it clear. with the energy and youth behind let me read what she tweeted on it and has the movement quality. do you agree that what democrats monday this sort of sham process should do is to try to nominate is not something she's going to allow to go down. quickly and then consolidate? because just to be honest, those cannot choose our impeachment who have ever been on twitter managers until we know what sort know that there's some toxicity of trial the senate will still between the sanders world conduct. president trump blocked his own witnesses and documents from the and some of their more house and from the american vociferous supporters and people people and phony complaints over who voted for hillary clinton. that is still there. the house process. that is not gone. what's his excuse now? and consolidating everyone

he's not going to get the trial behind one candidate when that that he wants, which is just a still exists is not going to be easy. a lot of people still have a lot sort of no trial trial because speaker pelosi, i mean, she of feelings that have not ended. could hold on to literally these do you think it would make -- do impeachment arms till spring if the party well to try to nominate quickly and try to she wanted to and let it all go through the courts. we'll talk about that more later consolidate everyone behind someone soon and not drag it but to get back to him for just out? a moment. david jolly one of the things >> well, i think, first of all, trump and his supporters have that it would do the world well. done to try to get from under and i think, you know, the world the weight of what impeachment is watching us. everybody wants to get rid of means, him being only the third this racist in the white house, and you know, they want to do person to be impeached as the united states president is to that. they're just unclear how. say it didn't lap. that if speaker pelosi doesn't make no mistake, what we're send the articles over there was seeing now is fear. we're seeing people say -- no impeachment which isn't true. people are not supporting joe so jonathan turley who they biden because they want joe biden in the office because he rolled out to sort of defend him excites them, he ignites them to want to do action. in the house judiciary committee they're saying, this is the wrote an op ed headline of which most -- this is the white man, the old white man with the most i testified against trump's gravitas that potentially could impeachment. occupy that seat as the so even his own lawyer friend is president that's not donald saying it happened. he is an impeached president, trump. that's all that is. that can't be undone but for the absolutely the progressives are base of the party is that what bringing the energy, they're bringing the funk, they're

they have left now, to say that bringing the flavor, whether you're talking about elizabeth didn't happen if pelosi doesn't warren, whether you're talking about bernie sanders. and again, i want to get back to the message that people of color send it over. >> you'll hear republicans say absolutely will turn out with invalid. enthusiasm, with, you know, donald trump pedals in clapping their hands and ready alternative facts and he's going to move in action, if the to exercise that strategy with democrats deliver the goods. we saw that in 2008. this. the reality is in the first paragraph of the articles passed we saw that in 2012. by the house a couple weeks ago i gave the example of natives. it says the president of the natives overwhelmingly vote united states is impeached by democrat, when the goods are the house of representatives and there. we need a candidate that elicits these articles are created for exhibition or to be exhibited to excitement, that elicits the senate. he was impeached by a majority something more. and i see people on my twitter of the house and the anger feed, when i see smoresponses t you're seeing in the tweet storm over the weekend is every time he hits send he is expecting say just getting donald trump is excitement enough. no, we actually need vision. some kind of absolution to that i heard 2020 vision. impeachment and he realizes no tweet can undo what history will that's what we need in 2020. we need somebody who can see forever record that he is the where we're going, not just third president to be impeached repudiate where we've been. >> this is a good panel for the by the house. >> right. i mean, something considered so democratic party to listen to. and luckily, we have the guy who formally won the week here, shameful, nixon resigned rather michael blake. you can go back and tell your friends at the dnc about this

than allow it to happen to him. conversation -- >> we are here. he resigned after the house we'll take it back to the bronx, joy. don't worry. >> take it back to the bronx. judiciary committee process so midwin charles, michael blake, he never got to the vote. dean obeidallah, phillip agnew, randall, you know that this is a guy who you know, has lived a jyasi rossi, a great panel. lot of his life as a television thank you. coming up next, donald trump is coming to take your land, personality. texans. that's next. is coming to take y, in a sense an impeachment trial texans that's next. what's for dinner? would be sort of a television program. right? it would be donald trump being impeached in a new era in which this would all take place before the cameras. the impeachment he would like to have and that mitch mcconnell like to give him it would make him the o.j. simpson of presidents. people would think that was b.s., that was not a real trial. there was mystery about what the outcome was doing to be in the (fake gagging noises) o.j. trial, and when the result ♪ came out a lot of people thought it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. it was invalid. is that what you think he wants kraft. for the win win.

to do as sort of the o.j. of presidents. >> donald trump has the love/hate with the media and televisi television. he hates it when it's not favorable to him so i think his biggest concern is that when we move to the senate trial that there is some way that the testimony of a john bolton or a rudy giuliani makes its way on to televised screens, because there in lies the ability for the trial to really paint him in a negative light. so on one hand to your point he wants this trial to be quick, to be favorable, to be coordinated in a way by mitch mcconnell that gives him quick vindication so he feels as though he was not well, here's to first dates! impeached but there is the risk that this trial does go the you look amazing. other way and that rather than and you look amazingly comfortable. ending up being favorable to donald that it does expose further his high crimes and when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck... misdemeanors. that's when you know, it's half-washed.

>> and david jolly, there in try downy fabric conditioner. lies the risk for your former political party because if in unlike detergent alone, downy helps prevent stretching fact witnesses are allowed, if the deal that gets made is that by conditioning and smoothing fibers, john bolton testifies and mick so clothes look newer, longer. downy and it's done. mulvaney testifies and other people testify who did testify in the house who then make very clear that what donald trump says he did, which is try to get a foreign nation to investigate his political rival and to try to get evidence of this crazy conspiracy theory that says russia is innocent and that ukraine is the meddler in the some things are too important to do yourself. ♪ election. if it proves he did what he did get customized security and then he gets acquitted we're with 24/7 monitoring from xfinity home. looking at the kind of trial awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. they use to have in the south simple. easy. awesome. call, click or visit a store today. when a person who went to trial and an all white jury said they are acquitted when everyone knew they were guilty. that's a whole other kind of sort of american historical precedent that donald trump cannot possibly want. right? >> true, except for his base. i mean, he wants the show, because the show will excite his

base and honestly allow donald trump to continue to put the spot light on joe biden and on hunter biden which politically works for donald trump. though there's no parody between the conduct of joe biden and the impeachable conduct of donald trump, he wants to make that case to his base and his base will accept it which is why to your point about having a jury and a majority leader that has already expressed parabtiality this trial. nancy pelosi needs to put a strong spotlight and put mitch mcconnell, not on trial but in the house, go big. bring a heavy spotlight to the misconduct of mitch mcconnell. i think he confession that he would not be impartial in this trial is akin to when kep mccarthy admitted that the is there any amount of money where you would be willing to benghazi hearings were only to sell? >> if you would talk to me, my sister and my brother, we would say no, because it has nothing

to do with money. and we want our land. sink hillary clinton. it needs to be part of the reason why the articles are not no amount of money is going to make us happy. going over. it's not just about the witnesses. >> it is unclear what donald it's about the fact that the trump won't do to get his majority leader has said we will precious border wall. not have a fair trial in the he's shut down the government, united states senate. declared a national emergency that's reason enough to with and even taken money away from hold this and what we've seen the military, all to make good from mar-a-lago this weekend it on his central campaign promise, to build a wall across the is the singular trigger for southern border to keep brown migrants out, a wall that mexico donald trump is nancy pelosi and was supposed to pay for. and now, texas land owners are to an extent the impeachment articles that she now controls. >> seems to have been quite a feeling the brunt of trump's desperation as the administration begins using strategic error for him to say eminent domain to forcefully seize the property of private that on television because he's land owners to replace their ranches and fields with the also up for election that just wall. joining me is david corne of elected a democrat. that's a weird choice that he mother jones. made but i guess it's the choice we knew this was going to happen, right? he thought trump wanted. if you are going to build a to go back to these prospect of border wall across the southern border, the people who live that land are who you have to go through to get it. a trial, randall, last week >> yes. >> so, you have a piece here, a land owner's tale in texas -- this is "the new york times." mr. drake, 69, doubts the wall antho will do much to stop illegal anthony, he speculated if there are witnesses in a trial, that immigration, though he supports the president who ordered it. if bolton testifies, if rudy he believes that the constructed

giuliani testifies, if some of wall -- the construction will these other figures wind up ruin his life, but selling the testifying that it will be so land early on seemed better and damning that in his mind trump cheaper than facing the would actually resign. government in court only to have do you see a prospect having them take the land away anyway, he reasoned. knowing this man, you're already so, people who supported trump, voted for the wall, are now nodding no, that he would do what nixon did and decide what's going to have their land taken from them. >> you know, i circled that come out is so damning and so sentence in the same piece. doubts the wall will do much to embarrassing that he resigns his stop illegal immigration -- office. >> i don't see it. >> but it's psychological. the man's egois too big, joy. >> but that's the bottom line you know, the day i reported for here. >> yeah. >> that really is the bottom line. the government can use eminent work with the trump domain when it has an emergency, organization, donald was reading take land from people to protect a stack of magazines and the country, do things that are newspapers with post it notes, whorthwhile. turn to articles written the issue here is that this wall is not working. favorably about him. you know, donald loves donald. we're seeing already the video of people climbing over the his ego feeds his own ego and i parts that have been built. there's more tunnels, there's more ultralight planes being can't imagine a scenario even with the damning testimony of a used. it's not effective. and the people who support trump, who live at the border bolton or a giuliani and the itself say that. >> yeah. list goes on, i can't imagine >> so at some point, it's not that in his egomaniac mind that only the biggest broken promise he's made, because mexico ain't paying for this. he would resign from the >> right. >> it's inefficient. position that has -- he has it's symbolic.

built his identity and his -- it's psychological, as you say, but it's not good policy and his history and his legacy it's particularly bad policy if around having become president, you don't, you know, tie border even because we know he's prone security to dealing with to fake news and to creating his own reality and narrative around immigrants who get here or his success and around his people who are here and undocumented. >> but the thing is, whether it's in gaza, where israel built accomplishments and even the a wall, or whether it's in reality of that testimony i don't think could put a crack into that wall that donald's berlin, where you know, the old built around his ego. soviet union built a wall, it is i can't see it. mainly psychological, meant to >> all right. well, predictions have been either make people feel trapped made. thank you very much. in or locked out. so, for his base, keeping these coming up, one single solitary immigrants, these particular republican senator is finally immigrants from central america disturbed with how the grim out is why they voted for him. reaper is handling trump's break away everything else of why they supported, that is the impeachment. we'll talk about that a little bit next. lk about that a little main reason -- >> well, interesting story. bit next when i was talking to trump advisers earlier in the campaign, he wasn't really able to talk about too many policies. and they'd try to brief him and he wouldn't listen. he didn't care. so they always gave him a -- whatever his event was, they always gave him a reason to talk about the wall -- >> the wall. >> because he -- it's psychological for him. >> yes, yeah. >> he's a builder and he knows that, you know, he's been

playing the race card. this is one -- you know, he doesn't care about too many things in the world other than himself, but he cares about the wall. >> he cares about -- and sam nunberg, we've talked about this, one of his former advisers told me the exact story, it's a lot of folks ask me why their dishwasher doesn't get everything clean. the roger stone idea. i tell them, it may be your detergent... from market watch -- almost no land has been taken so far, but that's why more dishwasher brands department of justice lawyers have filed three lawsuits just recommend cascade platinum... this month seeking to take ...with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. property from land owners. the agency says it's ready to for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. file many more petitions to take private land in the coming cascade platinum. weeks. you know, going all the way back to the supreme court cases, conservatives have usually been against the takings clause. >> yes. >> there's a fifth amendment to the constitution. this is what the fifth amendment says -- private property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation. thus, whenever the united states acquires a property through eminent domain, it has a constitutional responsibility to justly compensate the property owner for the fair market value of the property. so they're going it use this constitutional provision to take this land. there's nothing these people can really ultimately do about it. >> right. >> but these people who want the

wall -- it is -- it's striking to me that these people are willing to go to court and lose their own land, lose their ranches. >> well, they're trying to -- they basically cannot keep the land if the government comes in -- >> yeah, they're going to get it. >> and so, that's why some of them -- the only question is whether they go to court and try to get the court to force the government to pay them more that be the government first offers. >> right. >> and a lot of these people, including the guy featured in "the new york times," have decided that it's too onerous -- >> don't fight it. >> just cave in and take what they can. and they're building these -- it divides their property, and there are gapes. so, this is a wall that doesn't work, we know already, and there are going to be gates, openings -- >> and some of their land will be in mexico. that's the other thing. >> so, this is not being built on the border. >> right. >> this is being built -- >> in texas. >> inland from the border. >> correct. >> so what they're saying is that the land between the border now and the fence is going to come under the control of the

cartels. so, this is like giving a strip of america away to the mexican cartels. >> yeah. it's incredible. here's another piece, the "washington post" -- "take the land. trump wants a border wall. he wants it black and he wants it by election day, because he promised he'd do it." it's actually hard. people don't realize how hard it is for presidents to implement the promises from the campaign trail. trump has suggested he would pardon the officials if they would just go ahead, aides said. he would take it. he has waved off worries about contracting procedures and use of eminent domain, saying "take the land." that should be a campaign ender with his own base, because he is saying it out of his own mouth, take these people's land. and these are mainly white, republican texans. >> land owners, people who have built businesses, who had family farms for decades. but you know what has happened with the base and with the party itself, it's become a cult, if not cultlike. so, whatever trump says -- >> they'll do it. >> they go that way. and you know, imagine if obama had promised to have mexico pay for something and didn't.

that be on fox news, you know, 24/7, you know? they've dropped that. they will follow his bomb bast in any direction it goes, no matter who bulldozes. so, these poor people -- not poor, they're well-to-do people, land owners in the south, who are being trampled by the federal government, by the big when i heard that i was government, intrusive, big disturbed. if we are tasked as the full government. trump's people are not going to care about it. senate to do impartial justice >> we saw with the farmers, handouts, the welfare checks are under the constitution and the mainly going to big land owners law, that's the oath that we and corporate farms. smaller land owners, we have will swear to uphold at the record suicides and bankruptcies and they'll still vote for him, kmen commencement of this proceeding because they'll say he's trying then to me it means that we have to do the right thing. to take that step back from >> i think he'll lose some of them. the soybean farmers, they have lost their market. and the problem is, when you lose a market -- >> you don't get it back. supply chain. >> other people come in and they being hand in glove with the take it and then the chinese or whoever, stick with them. defense. >> one week after house republicans voted unanimously to so, my guess is that while we, oppose articles of impeachment anecdotally, we hear a lot of

people saying they still support lisa murkowski became the first trump, there will be a drop-off to publicly break ranks on the in a few states. and in a close election, that senate side and call out mitch mcconnell for his brazen could matter, especially, it may not be that they have to come announcement that he's working out and vote for biden, in quote, total cords nation elizabeth warren or bernie with the white house. sanders. it's if they don't turn out for i wouldn't call it a wave of trump in some close states. republican guilty votes just >> just don't turn out. >> look what happened in yet. joining me now is congressional kentucky, eastern coal counties went for the democrat over the reporter for the hill. republican in the last lib governor's race. >> and what also happened in libby, i'll go to you on this kentucky, black voters came out in huge numbers, and people who first. turned out, that they like chris hey, this was his reaction obamacare because they found to the seeming break with potter connect is obamacare, and they didn't like that matt biven took county -- mcconnell. away their -- tried to take away >> it looks like a crack to 400,000 people's health care away. david corn, always good to talk forego a real trial. to you. a sign to declare he was >> good to be here. >> you get all the scoops. coming up, evangelical coordinating with the white house was a big tactical error. support for donald trump is showing a few cracks. elical murkowski saying that to me support for donald trump is showing a few cracks e. until i found out what it actually was. highlighted what struck me as a tactical error from mcconnell which was saying out loud that he is coordinating with the white house which to me actually puts his moderates or his more sort of vulnerable members in a worse position.

>> so i think it is true that it was tactically an error for mitch mcconnell to announce in advance that the trial was going to be rigged because it does back the moderates in his party into a corner. do those moderates, people like lisa murkowski, she's not even one that's up for re-election. do they feel backed into a corner? >> they don't like that mcconnell put them in this position. they want to listen to the evidence and they wanted it to be run right and mcconnell made it seem oh, we're going to have this in the senate, we're going to aquit and then we're done and that really put them in the spot where they are saying we don't want to do that. we don't like your strategy, you're hurting us. >> is there a sense on the hill among republicans, martha mcsally got appointed to the seat because she lost and then got appointed. corey gardener, who is in big

trouble in colorado. tom tillis, iowa, also a state that's teetering. david purdue in georgia. so two georgia seats up. are those -- when you talk with staffers for those senators or with those senators are they angry at mcconnell for putting them on the blocks that way? >> i've actually heard a lot of praise for mcconnell with the way he's been handle the situation with pelosi. they think he's been doing it kind of smart and they think pelosi gave him ammunition to run on it. but i was having conversations with some of my senate republican sources and i said, is this going to be a matter of principle or politics when they make this vote and they have overwhelmingly said politics. they don't want this blow back from the base because they want the seat next year. >> david, let me go to you on this because going back to those

senators up for re-election. they all want to stay senators but staying a sflath tenator in dust mite droppings! eeeeeww! dead skin cells! gross! so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy-duty dusters. arizona, it's a whole different duster extends to three feet to get all that gross stuff strategy. in swing states just going up gotcha! and saying i'm for trump 1,000% and for that nasty dust on my floors, my sweeper's on it. is not how you get re-elected so the textured cloths grab and hold dirt and hair do you think there's pressure on those republicans who are up for no matter where dust bunnies hide. no more heebie jeebies. re-election who are not from deeply red states? phew. glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. >> yeah, i don't know, joy. i'd say first of all notions of itreat them all as if, they are hot and energized. public service and self-respect stay away from any downed wire, should command that senators like mcsally and romney and call 911 and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out gardener and tillis and others actually come out for a fair and keep the public safe. trial. 75% of the country wants a fair trial even though we know there's no momentum to remove the president from office. we simply want to see a fair trial ahead of what we assume will be an acquittal or at least not finding the president worthy of removal. but on the question of the politics in each race, in a

hyper partisan divided election cycle which 2020 will be, it is more of a turn out model than it is a persuasion model and it's counter into ti counter intuitive how you see poll situations behave. in reality what it insent vises them to do is to become more partisan, excite and turn out more people on their side than you see on the other side. and that is i think the election that the nrsc over on the senate side is preparing to run most of their senators in. it's that type of partisan tomorrow on our very last episode of "a.m. joy" for this cycle. not a consensus cycling. entire decade, our all-star >> i think that's true. this will be a base election. panel will tell you who won the so even if you are in a purple year. but first, there's so much more after the break. t bufirst, there's so much more state your best guess is try to after the break. max out the vote that's going to come out for donald trump to stick with you and not leave you off and just vote for donald trump. they want to get those votes too. the chances of persuading democrats or moderates to vote for them is probably pretty

slim. that's probably the calculation they're making. >> certainly and i'm even hearing some calculations with democrats. i'm hearing she's doing internal polling to see where her base is. so this is a consideration that is being made across the board. >> doug jones, this is the guy who won the seat in alabama that no democrat with us supposed to win but he was the guy banned from hot topics. a lot of black vote came out for him. he managed to get the seat but he wants to hold the seat. take a listen. >> quite frankly i didn't sit in front of the tv set the entire time the last two or three months. i've been trying to read this, trying to see if the dots get connected. if that is the case i think it's an impeachable matter but if those dots aren't connected and there are other explanations that i think are consistent with innocence i will go that way too. i've got to make sure -- what i

really want to see though is to fill in the gaps. there are gaps. people can make up their mind with gaps in testimony, but i would like to see a full and complete picture. >> you know, it's interesting, david, in a world in which the republican party has become a lot more extreme in many ways, you have the mcconnell being beaten up by his hometown paper for violating his oath and being prepared to violate it a second time by taking the oath saying that he'll be impartial but already saying i'm not and saying it isn't true and people like lindsey graham saying the same thing but democrats appear reasonable if they're voting in a state with sufficient numbers of republicans. >> what you're seeing from doug jones is the behavior of the most vulnerable democratic senator. as you mentioned he ran against roy moore, that elevated him to the senate. he has a very tough fight and deep red alabama but not one that's out of reach. but to your point on appearing reasonable, you know, the

contrast between the leadership of a nancy pelosi who gave her members space in the house has resulted in what we saw in the blue wave. it works. the american people have a certain sense of decency and fairness. they want to reward consensus when they see it and it is part of the success of nancy pelosi's leadership in the house compared to the senate leadership of mitch mcconnell. it's ripe to get the rebuke of the senate and the nation as well. >> and so the democrats would require 51 vote for procedural motion and 67 vote to convict. the idea of donald trump being convicted is highly unlikely. no previous impeached president are not convicted. they survive by one or two votes or whatever so that's not likely but the votes for the procedural

motions are you seeing the numbers out there that means it's possible for the procedural which means getdsing witnesses. >> i would say it looks like they don't have the votes yet. gardener is facing a tough election but the republicans i talked to say they don't see him changing. it doesn't mean he won't but when jesus was falsely they don't see it. and then you have romney and accused of treason, pontius pilate gave jesus the some of my sources say mcconnell opportunity to face his accuser. actually went to limb and said during that sham trial, pontius hey, you need to tone down your pilate afforded more rights to jesus than the democrats have criticism of the president afforded this president and this especially as we're reaching process. >> i mean, how dare you give these impeachment weeks and months and come to me if you donald trump fewer rights than -- or more rights than have any other concerns so mcconnell is behind the scenes jesus? certain republicans love to putting in work for some of contort themselves to elevate these senators that democrats donald trump to biblical status, were hoping would vote for thens but there are signs of cracks in withes and they're putting in trump's so far steadfast work on both sides. >> yeah. very quickly, davis jolly, i've evangelical support. since the christianity today always said the maximum you called for his removal from could see voting for conviction office, we have seen such cracks, but as my next guest is 3 and you'll either get 3 and do it together or jump off points out, that critique still together or you'll get none and falls short.

william barber is author of aye been asking a lot of guests "revive us again: vision and 3 or flnone. action in moral organizing." >> i this i none. bishop barber, thank you for being here. always good to talk to you. i've got an opinion on what >> thank you so much, joy. >> thank you. nancy pelosi should do. >> i'm a little somber this i don't think you send the morning when i hear that articles at all unless you see a comparison to jesus and pontius pila complete change of position from pilate, just -- >> it's like, what was he trying to say? like, how dare you give donald trump more rights than jesus? that's what that boils down to, mitch mcconnell. which is absolutely insane. you and jonathan >> i think a lot of people have wilson-hartgrove, also a friend of the show, wrote a piece for "the nation." thought it through and thought the exact same thing because it is clear what kind of trial this would be if it happens. here's a bit from it -- the only thank you very much. we will tell you who has the trumps the most triggered this thing problematic than no holiday season. red this holiday season critique is focusing solely on moral failings and doesn't lead people to interrogate their own commitment to immoral policies that are hurting real people. please explain, because this was in response to the "christianity today" rebuke of trump that got so much praise. >> yeah, you know, joy, there is some benefit, of course, to the critique, but there's a major flaw, and it's a flaw that's been in america for a long time,

and that is when you are willing to condemn someone's personal morality but not condemn the policy. that's like saying a slave master, as long as he's good, the slavery is all right. prophetic christianity always says that faith is political, but it's the politics of god. it's not the politics of any party. and you must challenge whoever is in power in the way that they treat the immigrant, the poor, the sick, women, and children. and so, when we look at that, you can't just say trump is immoral in his personal action. you have to critique his early immoral policies, like attacks on the poor, like caging women and children, like giving tax breaks to corporations but taking money from the needy, like appointing judges who want to undo civil rights and undo voting rights but give more power to corporations, like supporting gun extremism and denying health care. when you look at a jesus-based morality, not a gop morality, and a constitutional morality,

all of those things fall short and are, in essence, impeachable because they contradict the very essence of what true biblical evangelicalism is all about. >> and so, you know, when you have the "christianity post," which said that "christianity today," which was founded by billy graham, called it elitist for calling for trump's impeachment. so, you have attacks on them. essentially them saying that "christianity today" was wrong for doing that. what do you base the ongoing support for donald trump among very strong support among white evangelical christians, despite the fact that, as you said, christianity is so rooted in this idea of caring for the poor, the immigrant, and the stranger? >> mm-hmm. well, you know, joy, in this country, we have a long history. you know, trump is not just somebody, something that just came along, and the support for him is not just something that's just happened. from slave master religion to

the spiritual mobilization that tried to overturn the new deal to religiousists who tried to use christianity to support jim crow, right on up to so-called white evangelicalism, tons of money has been spent to deceive the public, and a whole lot of church folk. tons of money has been done, in an attempt to use this kind of false, distorted morality wrapped in some kind of religious covering to, in fact, cover up for injustice. and there's always been a need for a kind of prophetic christianity. that's what pushed forward the abolition movement. that's what supported the women's suffrage movement. that's what supported the social gospel movement. that's what supported the civil rights movement. so, we've always had these two strands going on. and trump is just the latest saint, if you will, of this distorted morality. that is why we are organizing people all over the country.

you know, i've been in kentucky where people are evangelical, and i've seen white kentuckyans come together with black folk who are also evangelical, though they may not use the term, and come together recently and vote out our governor. and that governor came to power and he began to implement some of the programs of the poor people's campaign and national call for moral revival. that's why on june 20th, 2020, we are gathering thousands of people in washington, d.c., saying, look, there are moral issues -- systemic racism, systemic poverty, ecological devastation, the war, economy, and this false, distorted narrative, that we must address. when you look at what they did it's rewriting history and what concerns me most, because what trump was in the finally, joy, is that there are early 90s he was a tycoon that 140 million low-wealth and poor was admired and embraced by americans in this country. american culture. 66 million of them are white. by hollywood, by the and many of them are hurt by entertainment industry. >> that's right, jesse. these so-called evangelical long before he dared to become a policies, but we're seeing breaks. young people are breaking from christmas saving republican demi it. and once people begin to see what's really going on, what's god and periodic stand in for

really going on, that this is really not about abortion, you rocky balboa because they look know. this is about major parts of exactly alike, he was 'em brised money trying to hold in place with the highest echelons of people who are committed to corporate greed and corporate hollywood until canadian power and not really to the liberals truly excised trump fundamental foundations of christianity. from a yuletide classic like >> are you surprised there has not been more vociferous outcry "home alone." quote the fails. about the fact that the trump administration's about to change the social security disability pathetic. income rules so that potentially his cameo disappears in thousands and thousands of people will be kicked off, that people who get s.n.a.p., broadcasts. his dad's brilliant cameo was thousands are about to be kicked off? i mean, there really is, especially this christmas season, that's a pretty shocking cut by mean canadian liberals set of policies. all because he is make america there hasn't been that much outcry. great by tossing brown men and >> well, you're exactly right. i think we are having in our women in cages which is exactly campaign, you know, we're doing what mary and joseph would want this we must do more tour all around the country and people as they were summoned to flee to are outcrying. but here's what i see as a major problem. we've now had 33 debates. egypt as refugees. i heard your panel earlier. trump was so beloved by the but we've had 33 debates since american people. unfortunately for junior and 2016, and not one on poverty.

jesse it seems the cameo appears and the policies that affect the not to have come from adoration poor. and i say to democrats, we've but because at the time he owned got to change that. we cannot keep ignoring the 140 parts of the plaza hotel where million poor people or we cannot home alone was shot. keep ignoring these policies putting a donald trump cameo in that trump are putting in place a movie was required if you and not deal with them in a wanted to shoot in one of his frontal way. we have to speak out against these policies. hotels. if you wanted to shoot in one of his buildings you had to write >> the last presidential candidate that ever talked him in a part. officially about poverty, john he had to write something into edwards. look that up. that's quite true. >> that's right. >> bishop william barber, thank "scent of a woman." you very much. always great to talk to you. donald trump walks in and thank you very much. have a great holiday season. >> god bless you. >> up next, my panel predicts al-pacino is like hello, mr. the prosecutions, the trump. and then he exits. imprisonments, and the pardons you waste a little time so you of 2020. of 2020. can get the permit but then you y their dishwasher doesn't get everything clean. i tell them, it may be your detergent... can cut the scene out. then in "home alone 2" they cut that's why more dishwasher brands recommend cascade platinum... it out. and this unkindness cut of all, ...with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. removing his seconds of cascade platinum. brilliance in which he gives sage life advice which is really what made macaulay culkin a

star, this wicked kuts was not fault of trudeau but was edited back in 2014 before donald trump even announced he was running for president.

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we have local senior living advisors who can answer your questions about dementia or memory care and, if necessary, help you find the right place for your mom or dad. we all want what's best for our parents, so call today. as the new year begins, we look forward to what will happen and what 2020 will bring. and as our legal panel predicts, who may be prosecuted, imprisoned, or pardoned in the year ahead. joining me, maya wiley, barbara mcquade and joyce vance. pardons, prosecutions, imprisoned! maya wiley, who will be pardoned, prosecuted, imprisoned in your view in 2020? >> well, i'm going to go out on a limb and say prosecuted, rudy it's going to be a boom year giuliani.

>> oh. >> which is not the same thing in 20 for the american economy. as necessarily imprisoned, i'm looking at growth closer to right? we don't know what the evidence 3% to 2%. is. i'm looking at the dow, well there's just so much smoke here, and it's not just related to over 30,000. >> donald trump wants all the ukraine. i think we all have been credit for good economic news and none of the blame for the following the relationship bad. his supporters have so far between rudy giuliani, his activities. obliged. farmers struggling to feed their whether or not that's going to be connected to campaign finance family. violations is obviously one the recent hard shich is legal question. but subpoenas issued by the directly attributable to trump's trade wars but they think their southern district of new york seeking documents related to taxes are too high, their creeks money laundering, related to and streams are overregulated wire fraud. and we know that rudy giuliani and that trump still has their has a wide variety of consulting best interest at heart. we've had unfair trade for years and years. somebody had to fix it and he's practices that have related to, trying to fix it. joining me now a former democrat for example, iranian -- a former you can senator and thank you so iranian terrorist group that was much for being here. >> hi, joy. literally on the terrorist list up until 2012, responsible for killing six americans. >> let's look at the numbers and rudy giuliani's, one of his first. so if you look at the job growth partners, former u.s. attorney mike mukasey, actually chart, donald trump is about in registered as a foreign agent line with what president obama's job numbers looked like. for this group, mek, just a lot of the economic numbers recently. and rudy giuliani did not.

look similar to the obama era. and they were in many meetings wage growth it shows increases over the past year particularly together with this group, so in johns that are at the the there's that. there are questions around payments he's received from a lower income scales are going turkish bank. there's a lot of following the up. what's weird is that given the money here, and we know that lev economic data, trump should parnas, who has been indicted by probably be at a higher approval the southern district of new rating than he is now. york related to whether or not a typical president trump would he's been using foreign dollars be and a lot of people believe his behaviors detract from his to influence u.s. elections, is ability to take advantage of the cooperating and is talking, among other things, about rudy giuliani, and he has a joint numbers. voters aren't giving trump much credit for the growing economy. defense agreement with fruman, even though people's views have who was also engaged in some grown more positive since 2017. ukrainian activities. what do you suppose that there's so much there that i'm just going to go out on that disparity is about? people say the economy looks good othem but he isn't getting credit? >> i think it's very much like limbprosecuted, tribal politics. republicans will give him credit for almost anything. pardoned. what if he was prosecuted by the he is as you know an unusual southern district of new york? and for our fans at home, mek, president. there's nothing normal about him, nothing normal about his look it up. presidency. sort of a fabricator and he let's go to barbara mcquade. who gets pardoned, prosecuted,

claims credit for everything or imprisoned? >> i'm going to choose the like the rooster claiming credit for the sunrise, but here's the pardon card, joy, and i want to situation. talk about roger stone. while the economy is moving i think he is the one most forward and more jobs and so on likely to be pardoned in 2020. and that's very helpful, it is president trump will either have also in many ways unhealthy in been defeated and serving out the end of his lame duck term at the sense that we're adding a the end of 2020 or he will be, trillion dollars to the the debt having been re-elected, will be empowered to pardon anyone he and we have artificially low interest rates. chooses, not having to worry so there's going to be a about re-election. and so, i see him pardoning response to that by our children and who knows how many years it roger stone. he's scheduled to be sentenced will take, but it may not be long when we're going to have to in february. his range could be anywhere from one to seven years, depending on respond to this unbelievable what sentencing enhancements the amount of new energy in terms of judge chooses to tack onto his money that's buput into the economy. sentence. he'll likely report three months >> you know, the debt, at least after that in may, so he will be a trillion of it is down to the tax cuts that paul ryan pushed six months into his sentence, i would say, in december of 2020, his whole adult life which gave and could look for a pardon. a trillion dollars mainly to you might also see manafort get a pardon. corporations and the very, very someone i think will not get a rich, a lot of people saw higher pardon would be michael cohen, because as we know, president taxes in the regular and middle trump values, above all, loyalty, not to the united class as a result of it. states, not to the constitution, the world's richest have gained but to him.

and so, i see stone and manafort $1.2 trillion in 2019 as jeff getting pardons but not michael cohen. bezos retains the crown as the >> very interesting, because i was going to ask you, when you richest man. said roger stone, whether 500 richest people saw their manafort might not be the smarter pardon, because if you wealth surge by 25% in 2019. think about donald trump's obsession with ukraine, it's partly about manafort going down the data looks good but people in that black ledger scandal in have to drive lyft on the side in order to survive and you have which manafort was found to have made millions of dollars in a lot of people going into illicit payments from the bankruptcy because their farms previous president of ukraine, the pro-russia guy, and trump is are getting hit by tariffs. obsessed with him. he's obsessed with the idea that >> those at the top of the he thinks manafort got a raw ladder are going just fine. deal, so you put him second on those at the bottom, it's the the list. you think stone has more dirt. cake and crumbs theory and you think that's why he lets him off? farmers have been hurt. because trump is not the most compassionate guy. i wrote a book called "a girl in you think stone over manafort still? >> i think he wants the counsel the photograph." of roger stone. >> ah. >> i think roger stone is the fact is not everybody is someone who has a long history benefitting but it's still as a dirty trickster, has been a important to say the economy is valued confidante. and i think he wants him back in moving forward very largely debt the fold. financed in that regard, but you >> so he can get some know, i think that most impeachment advice. very savvy idea. americans take a look at this joyce vance, you're left to guy with respect to the bring in the rear with this. you've got to come hard because potential election they say do

we've had giuliani thrown out we like him, do we trust him. there, we've had roger stone, that's the way they measure most we've had manafort thrown out there. sorry, michael cohen. candidates for office. and the fact is about 60% of the he's not in there. american people don't like this guy very much and the question who will be pardoned, of trust, you know, 70, 80% say prosecuted, or imprisoned, joyce? >> i have a little bit of an outlier pick here, joy. they doentn't trust him because my pick is a pardon for doesn't tell the truth. i think it's disconnected to congressman duncan hunter, what's happening in the economy. he's out here by himself, a lot california congressman, of bad behavior and the plern conservative from san diego, one of president trump's first people know it and i think they're kind of worried about supporters in congress. whether they want to give you may remember that hunter was someone like this a second term indicted for abusing campaign notwithstanding what's happening funds. with the economy which started this was the guy who went out to golf courses and bought himself under president obama, the month before he took office, 670,000 clothing in the pro shop claiming that it was money being people lost their jobs in this used as a donation for wounded country and so he began this warriors projects. economic resurgence and it's he'll be convicted -- or he's continued. there's no question about that. but i think the issue is going pleaded guilty. he'll be sentenced in early to be the president's behavior. february. i think that there may be a high >> a lot of it is psychological political cost to the president too. there are a lot of people who for issuing a pardon to the day before he was manafort, to flynn, as barb inaugurated thought we were in a recession. says, to stone, too early in the the day after it was like it's a

boom. give some advice to the game. but the president loves the pardon power, and a pardon of democrats running. hunter would be a great way to signal to these other people that they should stay loyal, a lot of senators on the ballot that they shouldn't offer and what message buzz president obama was usually reluctance to testimony during impeachment boast about improvements because he was aware that a lot of that would damage the president, people were suffering and donald that he will use the pardon trump is all boast and that's power to help them out when the kept him with his base. what would you advise the time comes, just not too early. incoming democratic nominee to so, i think we might see a pardon like this, much like he do as far as talking about the economy sm. >> well, i think, you know, you dangled pardons during the mueller investigation period as talk about what is important to a way of messaging to his people famili families. sitting around a dinner table to stay strong, to stay loyal, and what's important? do i have good health care, do i to stay in his camp. >> wow. have job security, does it pay that is a bold prediction. it sounds like mr. hunter might well? want to run donald trump's next do grandpa and grandma have opportunity for health care, do charity, because he sounds like just the guy. he seems to be just on brand. my kids go to good schools. those are the kind of things all right, while i have the people care about in their lives sisters in law here, i want to and i think democrats should ask us a quick lightning round keep talking about those things on whether or not you believe and let the american people that there will be an impeachment full trial in the decide whether someone like donald trump with all his bad united states senate before -- behavior and having to pay fines by spring of next year. maya, will there be a full trial for charity organizations that in the senate? give the benefit to himself, do >> a full trial?

well, not by my definition of full trial, because by my they want more of this for the definition, we'd have all the next four years? documents that congress asked for and we'd have had all the my best guess is not. witnesses. >> yeah. >> you know mitch mcconnell, >> and even chuck schumer has, i what do you make of his tactics think from a strategic standpoint, asked for only a regarding impeachment? couple of the key witnesses, to >> i sat on the last impeachment be sure. so, i would say it looks like we have an opportunity for a few trial. what senator mcconnell did is witnesses potentially, but definitely not full. unfathomable to me. >> barbara mcquade, full trial, it's fundamentally wrong to say i'm going to take the oath to be no trial? >> i think there probably will, but i think if nancy pelosi were impartial but i've already told the american people i'm not really true, she'd hold off impartial and i've already told until the supreme court rules in them i'm the foreman of the jury june about whether all of these documents have to be turned over in effect, the senate suicide a and president trump can claim jury and i'm going to be on the absolute immunity, because with side of the defendant. all of those documents, with witnesses like don mcgahn, i listen, that is not right thing think it changes the outcome to do and gives the american people very little confidence in substantially, the likelihood of what might happen in the senate. a conviction, of removal from >> let's talk a little about office increases substantially if you have all of that your book. information. so, i think that would be a "the girl in the photograph." it's a story about a native shrewd move by speaker pelosi. >> barbara mcquade, not a american girl that you came in contact with. tell us a little bit about this political advice-giver, but

book. >> this is a young girl at age 2 giving some advice that would place that trial right before living on an indian reservation the conventions. very savvy. put in a foster home at a joyce vance, full trial, fakie drunken party she was beaten trial, no trial? severely at age 2, arm, leg and >> i'm with maya. i think we'll see a partial nose broken. and hair pulled out at the trial. roots. lay laid in a room for a couple ultimately, there will be enough political pressure on mitch days with no medical attention. mcconnell that he'll have to she's found more stability now, permit some form of partial but i decided to write the book witness testimony, but i don't about the life of this young think chuck schumer gets all four witnesses that he wants. girl and describe in the larger sense what has happened to their testimony would be devastating to the president. native americans in the last he can't afford to do that. couple of centuries. >> all right. it's going to be very they were the last to get the interesting. right to vote in this country. maya wiley, barbara mcquade and they've really been left behind joyce vance, thank you. d joyce vance, thank you and especially indian children here, it all starts with a simple... have been left behind. >> this young girl is from standing rock, the standing rock rezer natiservation which is fio have their land clear of oil spills. >> and also fighting for the right to vote even now. >> and having been defied the right to vote in the last round. thank you so much for bringing that issue forward.

thank you for being here. >> thanks, joy. >> have a great rest of the day. meanwhile farmers and their land are not only things being threaten bid the trump administration. texas landowners are now a target for trump's desperation. ♪ ♪ everything your trip needs for everyone you love. expedia.

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that is our show for today! "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow are critical skills for scientists at 3m. at 10:00 a.m. eastern. and up next, alex witt has the one of the products i helped develop latest. and from my family to alex witt, was a softer, more secure diaper closure. everybody, one, two, three -- as a mom, i knew it had to work. happy new year! there were babies involved... and they weren't saying much. >> oh, i love that! you're with your family. you know, they know that they're i envisioned what it's like for babies to have diapers around them. my adopted family, too. i explained to each and every that's what we do at 3m, we listen to people, one of them the relationship, and it's all good. >> 100%. alex is my sister from another even those who don't have a voice. mother. >> there you go. >> this is your auntie dolly. at the end of the day, we are people helping people. this is your auntie and all of our cousins, alex, so -- >> oh, that's wonderful. well, enjoy, all of you. lots of love and laughter. >> thanks, guys. good to see you. >> and good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york, as opposed to d.c. where joy was. noon in the

coming up the most diverse democratic primary field in history could come down to bernie v biden. more "am joy" coming up after the break. more "am joy" coming the break.

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we're not going to go for trump, but we're not going to tolerate you sending us another republican-light democrat. if we go that route, if we go that route, it's guaranteed we will lose the electoral college. they're going to come out and vote for the fighter, for the person that shares their values. and the values of the majority of this country are the progressive values. >> good morning and welcome back to "a.m. joy." well, throughout all of the ups and downs on the race for 2020 this year, bernie sanders and joe biden have stayed remarkably steady in the polls, ending the year just about where they started it. and now the durability of bernie sanders has the party establishment taking a second look. according to new reporting from politico, democratic insiders say sanders could very well clinch the nomination in 2020. the only other candidate they seem to see in the radar is vice president joe biden. so, if it does, indeed come down to biden and sanders, the two older, straight, already-known white guys in what started off as a really diverse field of fresh faces, that could create

its own dilemma for democrats in 2020. it's incredible that we could be leading to a redo of the primary battle of 2016, between an establishment candidate, but this time not even a potential first woman president in bernie sanders and his very devoted base, a race between the candidate preferred by moderates and black voters but who comes with two decades of oppo-researchable history and the one preferred by young progressives. the question is, have democrats learned anything new in 2016 that produces a different outcome from the one in 2020? -- i mean, a different outcome in 2020 from the one in 2016. joining me is midwin charles, civil rights criminal and trial attorney, defense attorney, michael blake, new york congressional candidate and vice chair of the dnc, dean obeidallah of "the dean obeidallah show" on sirius xm, phillip agnew, surrogate for bernie sanders, and jossie ross, co-host of "the indigenous pirate radio t." break-dances with wolves. thank you all for being here. >> good morning. >> interesting choice on where to go first.

i'll make michael blake go first here, because it feels like -- >> here we go. >> i know. because it does feel like something about the way that the dnc set the rules, i don't know if it's the rules-setting that created this outcome, but we really are looking at what started off as 453 candidates, many of whom were people of color and women and lgbt, are really coming down to two older white guys. how did this happen? >> well, good to see everybody again. of course, good to see you, joy. this has nothing to do with rules. this is about people making their individual decisions within the polls. you know, when we think about the context, initially it was whether too many people were on stage when it came to the debates. then it became, well, now there's not enough people on stage. let's make sure we're clear. first and foremost, we hear often about senator harris, who ran a great campaign. why was she not on stage? that was not because of the debate rules, because she already qualified. when we think about what's happening respectably, here's the core points. in 2003, reverend sharpton was at 8% in quinnipiac, 5% in cbs polls and essentially tied for

second in south carolina, so this is nothing to do with rules. stop having us focus on what the party's supposedly not doing. the reality is people need to focus on helping people of color. we have to make sure that we're standing up for black and brown communities, which we have been doing. and at the end of the day, when you ask us, you have a dominican man in tom perez who's running the dnc, a jamaican american in michael blake, who is a vice chair, when seven of our ten officers are people of color, it is not that we don't love people of color. we obviously support them regularly and consistently. this is about making sure we help everyone get in the game. >> let me jump over to dean, because dean, who talks to folks every day on the radio show, you get a lot of feedback. because it's true, you can't say it's the rules when people are being asked who they want and they're telling you, give us a white guy, right? it's the voters saying it. look at these two polls. here's the "morning consult" poll. look at the top of that poll. here it is. biden still at the top at 31%, sanders 21%, warren 15%, pete buttigieg 9%, and then on down

from there. michael bloomberg has already bought his way to 6%, and it goes down from there. so this is like a vote. when you go to the other real rule that seems to be in play is the rule that iowa gets to go first and new hampshire second. because in iowa, it's very clear, right? it's buttigieg, sanders, biden, warren, klobuchar. you get down to like sixth place before cory booker. so this is also voters who are, i don't know if it's fear, i don't know if it's nervousness, if it's just saying a white man is the most likely to win to beat trump. what are you hearing back from voters about why this is the choices that they're making? >> first can i say, i want to propose new jersey as the first state in i want to see the candidates come to bayonne and secaucus and talk to hard-working people. yell "get off my lawn, buddy! what are you doing?" that's what i want to see. you want candidates vetted come to new jersey. here's the reality, it was all clear for us in june of this year. "l.a. times" did a poll asking democratic voters, if you could imagine the perfect candidate, what would they be?

70% said white and male, and that's been consistent through this. there was a new cbs poll just two weeks ago in the super tuesday states. black voters, 60% of black voters said a white candidate has a better chance at beating donald trump than a black candidate. when i listen to people who call my show and what i feel, too, is this urgency to defeat donald trump. and for some, that electability argument is someone who's a white male. i might not subscribe to that. i actually don't. but some do, because the fear that donald trump poses to so many of our communities, people of color, our muslim american, banning our people, a spike in hate crimes against our community, it's very real and palpab palpable, so we are concerned and we want someone who can beat trump. and biden and bernie, you can see why they're up there, liz warren close behind, and we can have a debate all day about electability, but for many voters, it's a white man. and you've got to change that narrative or it's going to be a white man. so be it. >> and midwin, that is true, even among black voters.

it just is. when you ask black voters who they want, they mostly say biden. >> it is, but i think it's important to talk about where that comes from, right? and i've said this before on your show, joy, when we talk about polling, when we talk about media coverage, which candidates get the most coverage. when we talk about what kinds of voters are constantly being polled, what kinds of voters are constantly being interviewed and asked to talk about how they feel, what they want. a lot of times it's not voters that looks like me. i've never been polled. i don't know any black person who's ever been polled. >> yeah. >> and so, when we see so many -- >> but do you pick up your phone when people call you, midwin? because i know i don't pick up the phone. >> but from day one after trump won, it's been nothing about what trump voters want, how trump voters are feeling, what the trump voters had for breakfast, what did they have for dinner? so i think what that does is it kind of plants in the minds of a lot of people that we need to be concerned about what they want. and i think a lot of people jump onto that and they don't want to necessarily take risk. and i've said this before on your show, one of the things

that i think the presidency of donald trump has done is convinced a lot of americans, including americans of color, that perhaps we should not take risks. but i think we ought to look back into history and look what happened when we did pick the person that we thought was safe and not the person that was energetic. john kerry, people thought he was safe. we know what happened there. obama was not, perhaps, the safe pick. we know what happened there, twice. >> yeah. >> so, i think it's important to pay attention to why people are thinking this, what's driving it, and i think it's the media, i think it's coverage. for example, you just said, michael bloomberg bought his way into 6%. why? because he's buying his own media coverage. >> yeah, it helps when you have a whole media organization named after your last name. that helps, too. >> right. >> by the way, you know what trump voters had for breakfast? christmas. let's go to phillip agnew. i just wanted to say that because -- >> shade. >> -- it's christmastime. >> a lot of shade right there. >> it's christmastime, and so you can have christmas, if that's what you want to have for breakfast. phillip agnew, i've been saying

this to friends and i'll say it to you because all of you are friends and the people at home are also friends, this feels like we could be heading towards an election that could be much like 2004. and i worked in that campaign, not on the kerry campaign, but for an associated campaign. and oh, and this feels like an '04, where you nominate someone who's got a lot of red flags that they don't address, right, which is similar to 2016, or it could be like 1972, where, you know, the progressive part of the party says we're going forward and the country turns out to be a lot not as progressive as the progressive part of the party thought. so, the risks of either a '72, which is the mcgovern election, or a 2004 seem real to me. do they seem real to you? i know that you are a bernie sanders supporter, but what do you make of that sense of risk that a lot of -- and particularly older voters and black voters have that a sanders campaign could be a '72? >> you know, well, first off, i want to say i'm salty on missing out on the party over there, missing michael blake and

everybody. >> my frat brother. i see you, phil. >> but listen, listen, i think this election is actually more like 100 years ago. so the candidacy of eugene devz. what we're talking about is an election that's about values. people want values and consistency. and so, when you look at a history of a candidate like senator sanders, who was surging in the polls -- he hasn't stayed where he is, he's actually surging -- you look to someone who has clearly talked about the material conditions of working people for the last 40 years, and that is what is animating people. it's not about who that person is, what is their identity. it is about a candidate who for the last 40 years has been consistent in talking about housing, talking about food, talking about clean water, talking about the planet, talking about criminal justice, talking about lgbtq rights. and this campaign has taken these conversations to barber shops. we're at sneaker shops. we're at bus stops. we're taking the conversation directly to the people. and so, what we see is something i think more tantamount to what

we saw 100 years ago in the ascendancy of a candidate and a campaign that is speaking directly to the real needs of working people, and no other candidate is doing that. when we talk about this bernie/biden thing, what we're actually talking about is somebody who is in establishment who has not offered any new ideas to the electorate, specifically black people. when we're going to hbcus, they're talking about their health care. they're talking about their parents' health care, the debt that they're under. and these are the things that senator sanders and this campaign is talking about. so, when we talk about the democratic party of the last 30 years, this is new, but what we're also talking about is this is the democratic party of the next 20 years. the rising electorate, the people who are affected every day by the corporations and what they're doing want a candidate who's not in the same bag as them. and that's why senator sanders is surging in iowa, in new hampshire, in california in nevada, in south carolina. >> let me, to that very point, jossie, i want to get you in on this, because a very wise friend named chris matthews once said

to me at a speech that he gave in miami, before i actually knew him personally, he gave a speech and he talked about the fact that politics is where you put the wedge in, right? and if the wedge is in between the very rich and the middle class, so that the middle class feel more related to the poor, they feel like they're in the same boat as the poor, people tend to vote for a democratic president. but if you put the wedge in between the middle class and the poor so that the middle class identifies with the rich, they identify upward, saying that could be me, that could be me at any time, they'll send to vote for a republican. and where we are now is that the biggest single pool of voters is millennials. they're actually more numerous, or they're either the same number or more numerous than baby boomers, and they are the generation that's got a second or a third job or that's driving lyft on the side or that's got eight roommates in order to be able to live in a normal-sized city. so it feels like the wedge is the first place, it's between the very rich, 500 people just got 25% more wealth just last year alone, and everyone else is like, wow, i have an eighth job,

you know what i mean? so, is that where we are now, where the politics is very much about where you feel you are on the economic ladder, or is there something else that you think will drive it? >> good morning, joy. >> hey. >> good morning, everybody. i think that the wedge is really between -- right now there's a lot of us, nerds talking about these polls, and the average person doesn't pay attention to this. the average person pays attention to what's in their pocketbook, how their 401(k) is working, and how their economics on a daily basis is happening and you know, how their kids are going to school and if they're able to afford that. and so, we're talking about a wedge between those who are informed and those who are not regarding the everyday struggle. and that might be an economics thing, but it also might be an information thing. joy, i want to point out -- i know this segment is coming to a close pretty soon -- that there's people -- i appreciate how you framed this question, because this is putting on the burden on the democratic party to create the enthusiasm. brown people and black people

showed they will come out if the democratic party delivers the goods. to wit, in 2016, the nesquakie indian precinct voted 83.3% for bernie sanders and pushed bernie sanders to victory in the iowa caucuses. they showed that they will respond, native people certainly, but also black folks, latinos, people overwhelmingly supporting bernie, have showed they will support when the goods are there. and i believe that, you know, this question of whether or not, you know, this sort of binary between these two white men -- you couldn't be talking about two completely different -- >> very different. >> -- white men. they're completely different. and i think it will show that there's a progressive wing amongst people of color that are willing to support this white man who is very, very different from the other white man, joe biden, and be willing to, you know, to support him as these democratic primaries happen, joy. >> well, let's go bigger than that. because midwin, there's also,

you know, the base of the resistance to donald trump has been women. it's been mainly women of color, but just women in general. and so, does it surprise you, as it does me, that women have not risen further in terms of the top of the party? because elizabeth warren offers many of the same policy prescriptions that bernie sanders offers with somebody who is, at least in the beginning, was seen by a lot of more middle-class voters as being more electable. she doesn't have a self-declared socialism issue that would be used against her in a general election. it seems to me that so much of the energy in the primary has been around getting rid of her, honestly, billionaires running to stop her, funding money to stop, doing everything to make sure she ain't the nominee. and in a way, that's actually helped bernie sanders, right? because it's kind of cleared the field because she's the other person in his category. what are your thoughts on that? >> it has. and you'll notice that up until the point senator harris was in the race, warren was doing quite well. and once harris decided to suspend her campaign, all of a

sudden, all of the energy went towards elizabeth warren. and we've talked about this on your show before. it's misogyny. and you see that all the time with the coverage of warren's campaign, particularly when you compare the coverage of her campaign, the coverage of klobuchar, which is perhaps different because klobuchar has never really been polling very high. but when you compare the coverage of warren's campaign to buttigieg, who doesn't have the kind of experience that warren has, who hasn't necessarily been enjoying that microscopic lens and the vetting, you have to ask yourself, is it because she's a woman? the way in which she's attacked, the way in which she's asked to explain her policies that you don't see people asking biden to explain, you don't see people asking a lot of the other male candidates to explain to such an extreme minutia. and she constantly keeps being backed into a corner and having to explain things. so, there's a lot more pressure, and you can see it. and even i think in recent articles just yesterday, you know, how much longer before her campaign is over?

like, it's just, you know, she's dead in the water, all these kinds of articles. and i agree with you, i am surprised that i don't see a lot of women rising up and supporting her in ways that you would expect that they would. >> because the idea, put a woman as the vp. go ahead, dean. by the way, her fund-raising is down like 30%, down like 30% in the fourth quarter, so -- >> and that's going to be the articles, right? oh, my gosh, fund-raising is down. it's over. >> phil, go ahead, jump in. >> the one thing -- >> first of all -- >> listen. -- >> were you saying to me? >> i'm sorry. i called dean first, so dean, then phil. >> okay. >> you're not a nerd, you're like the coolest guy i know, just off the top. >> we like being nerds, by the way. we're proud of it. >> he said it like okay, we're nerdy, he's cool. i think what jyosi touched on earlier, how people are personally impacted in this economy is such an important

message. i think democrats are ceding this idea that this economy is perfect, that donald trump's turned it into a miracle! in reality, donald trump is losing the donald trump of a year ago when we hit 3% jeep growth. now we have under 2%. bernie sanders just did a great interview with the "l.a. times," and i'm not supporting any candidate per se, but he made a great point -- you get a job now, but it doesn't pay well. the average american this year, you talked about it, 3% wage growth? we've had 2% inflation. 1% real wage growth for the average worker in this country. four out of ten americans don't have $400 in their bank account to pay for an unknown expense in their life. unemployment has gone up in the last year in key states like michigan and wisconsin. bankruptcies of farms have gone up 25% in the last year alone. we just had a layoff announced in michigan, gm plant. you've had truckers suffering horrifically in this year, two to three times the number of trucking companies closed down this year compared to last year. look, there's a bubble in this economy. the democrats have got to take the fight to that and say the rich have gotten richer, and

that's not a talking point. that's the reality. how is your life? why are you working two to three jobs, don't have enough money in the bank if something bad happens? how come you can't scrape -- you're just scraping by while donald trump's rich friends who play golf with him at private country clubs, they're doing great! of course they are. they're the wealthy. the tax cut was for the wealthy. democrats need to address the issue and have policy proposals like raising minimum wage, dealing with department of labor regulations for overtime pay that mandates it, and the list goes on. so, i think ceding this fight on the economy is a loser for democrats. it's not left versus -- it's not centrist versus progressive. >> right. >> i listen to people around the country every day who are suffering around this country. they call my show from different industries. democrats have to take the fight to trump on that. >> can i -- >> phil. >> yeah, listen. first, misogyny and patriarchy must be engaged with and talked about in to the white house. and we have to talk