mcconnell has been doing headquarters in new york. we begin this hour with breaking this is how law enforcement was able to apprehend him within everything possible for the last news. five people injured in a knife hours because the information two weeks telling president attack in monsey, new york, last went out pretty quickly to law trump let it go. night. they were members of the ultra enforcement. and the other thing is that the let's have a quick trial in the orthodox hasidic jewish rabbi, who lives there, has a community and were gathered for senate, you won't be convicted, just let it go, but the more hanukkah celebrations. congregation there, after attack happened north of new everyone was taken to the this goes on and the more -- york city in a town with a large hospital went over to his congregation to continue the jewish population. nancy pelosi is almost like the police apprehended the suspect laser that follows a cat and celebrations which i think is a 30 miles away in harlem. donald trump is just following show of defiance, a show of it and following it and making, you know -- making himself crazy this is a string of anti-semitic strength that no attack, no and everyone else for that matter. >> susan making memes on attacks in new york this month. incident will deter or should andrew cuomo has asked the hate national television this deter anyone here in the united morning. daniel, what's the thinking in crime task force to investigate states from exercising whatever washington right now about when the incidents. freedom or liberty they choose the articles might actually be nbc's kathy park is in to exercise. >> reporter: we were told there delivered? congress is still out another monsey covering this developing was some sort of celebration story. week. cathy, what, if anything, do we is there any hint of a timeline know at this point about motive? that was being hosted at this home. how many people were here? >> 50 to 60 people. at this point? >> there is no hint. pelosi is keeping her cards >> reporter: garrett, good >> reporter: wow. >> last night was the seventh morning to you. close to the vest and she that is still a big mystery at night of hanukkah. doesn't want to send those so the rabbi was in the house, this hour. articles over to the senate and this is still very much a he lit the candles and then developing story and there are a there is some singing going on then see a very quick trial that lot of different agencies who are working to figure out a and you have people of all ages totally exonerates or at least motive, but let me walk you sitting there. through exactly what happened you had people of all ages acquits president trump. so i think she's waiting for last night. the incident, the attack, sitting there and person burst senators to come back into into the house and started happened just before 10:00 in session and for schumer and stabbing people mcconnell to try to hash out a this home behind me and

indiscriminately, leaving five people wounded, two of them deal, but if there is no deal according to authorities dozens of people were gathering for the critical, one of them extremely that's reached between those two seventh day of hanukkah critical. >> reporter: and as far as men, then it's hard for her to celebrations, this is the home of a rabbi who was actually part people fighting back and just reverse herself and then send over those articles. of a ceremony that was happening making sure that the attacker i think there is a lot of next door at the synagogue right wasn't going to hurt any more democratic activists who say individuals -- >> correct. here to my left. my understanding was that that she is playing her strategy obviously mayhem ensued. now, the knife-wielding suspect right and that if she doesn't burst into the door and went on one person took a folding table send over those articles then he the attack, stabbing five people and threw it at him but he just stands impeached, he won't who were sent to the hospital. continued stabbing. right now we still don't have an obviously at some point he actually get that acquittal and update on their condition, but it makes it harder for him to stopped, turned around, left and we knew, though, that one ran to his vehicle. make political hay out of that individual, an elderly man, is exoneration or that acquittal. in serious condition. as we posted on our twitter >> susan, there is an argument now, we had the opportunity to account you can see the person that pelosi is essentially go to his vehicle, get in and speak to a spokesperson with a taking off and someone following playing with house money over this holiday break. local jewish organization who behind trying to get a read on the trial wasn't going to start was able to provide more details the tags, which they did until january anyway, she can sit on this for a while. about what happened inside. take a listen. are there diminishing returns if successfully. we are still having this conversation in late january if >> reporter: and as for that >> people who are in this house she just continues to hold on to when it happened, you know, were these articles further and pretty much shaken, all, that o further? >> there is. suspect, the individual was when nancy pelosi first held found 35 miles away from here in back on them i was a little surprised because it looked so harlem and it was the quick political and she was trying to thinking of the individual who make this not look like such a was in the house who had the people who was in the house att. political strategy or wherewithal to write down the license plate number and eventually authorities were able impeachment, but what it has to capture that suspect. done over the last week and a

half and going into january is we still don't have any details about that individual or that allow a narrative to build that motive. all we're looking for is still very much an ongoing investigation at this hour. witnesses and documents. meantime, the governor of new york has directed the hate crime and the american public they task force to also help with understand a trial even though we know it's not technically a this investigation. garrett. >> nbc's kathy park. regular trial, we understand that witnesses are normal. cathy, stay with us for a second why wouldn't you have witnesses? i want to play a little bit of why wouldn't you show documents? sound into the newsroom from another witness. it just makes common sense. this is brand in you to us. so she has let that narrative take a listen. >> i saw him walking in by the build which i think she can only let go until maybe the first door, i asked who was coming in week she's become and then go in the middle of the night with forward. i think public opinion and we even see lisa murkowski and an umbrella. while i was saying that he pulled it out from the thing and there'ssome other senators he started to run into the big nothing wrong hearing from a couple of people. room, which was on the left let's go forward on this. >> daniel, there is good side, and i throw tables and reporting on the hill over the week ds want to settle chairs, telling him he should get out of here. he injured a guy, he was this impeachment trial quickly, at least the party other than the president. bleeding here, bleeding in his once they get the articles how much control do senate hands all over. i ran into the other room republicans have in stream lining this process and what are we walk talking about? because i tried to save my wife, does quickly mean two weeks? i saw him running down this way does it mean five?

give people a sense of the scale and i ran out and two ladies here. >> i think mcconnell and other came along with me, they are republican senators in his -- in still hysterical. what time is it now? his lane they want to keep it at i don't know the time now. and they are still hysterical two weeks max. they don't want to have a long, right now. >> a lot of detail there, cathy. you know, dragged out process are police still on the scene? how active is this scene and because i think if, you know, this investigation right now this morning? don jr. and others have called for the whistle-blower to >> reporter: garrett, since the testify and joe biden and joe incident happened last night biden said he -- there is no around 10:00, you know, a lot of shot that he would ever do that, but i think we're looking -- if the police tape has been removed. the articles are sent over we're we don't have the large police looking at this to finish by the presence that we had last night, end of january, but i am still but really that was a harrowing -- just a terrifying skeptical that pelosi will just account from that one witness send over the articles without and we were told there were some type of deal and that i people of all ages who were think she's saying that these worshipping in this house last are the president's own people, like mick mulvaney and john night, between 50 to 60 people. bolton, why wouldn't we want to once again, we still don't have hear from them? shouldn't the president have his the ages of the victims, but we defenders as well? do know that there is at least >> we have to leave it there. one individual who was probably daniel lippman, thank you, in his 70s or so who suffered susan, stick around, we will come back to you. some serious injuries and he's the topic of impeachment is spilling out on to the campaign still at the hospital recovering trail with one candidate having from his injuries, but, yeah, to walk back comments involving

a congressional subpoena. this is still very much an >> do you stand by your earlier active investigation, garrett, statements that you wouldn't and hopefully in the next couple comply if you were subpoenaed to hours we will have more details testify in an impeachment trial for. >> you thank you very much. before the senate? >> correct. and now to politics, the and the reason i wouldn't is first big headline, the holiday because it's all designed to tweet storm from the president on impeachment with nancy pelosi deal with trump doing what he the target of much of his ire. we will go through all the has done his whole life, trying morning's developments this hour to take the focus off him. with our team of reporters and analysts. >> i want to bring into the we begin with nbc's hans nichols conversation julia manchester, following the president in florida. reporter from the hill, and hans, the president is keeping susan del percio is still with up his attacks on speaker us. we just heard the former vice pelosi, but so far it's a pretty president joe biden's original one-sided battle. comments, he then attempted to she is not responding. >> she's responding with the clarify. sound of silence, garrett. here is what he's saying now on the possible subpoena. when you look at what the president has been doing on >> would you comply with the twitter over the last four or subpoena? five days it has been >> yeah, would you show? consistently attack house >> i would honor whatever the speaker nancy pelosi. usually going after her on her congress, in fact, legitimately home turf, criticizing her for the homelessness problem in san asked me to do. i don't think that's going to francisco. happen. let's cross that bridge when it comes. suggesting that california needs i would, in fact, abide by to do more. whatever was legally required of basically we have a president who is in impeachment limbo, me, i always have, but, again, right? the articles have been passed by this is -- this is going to be the house, nancy pelosi has not

given an indication when she the news today and i'm not criticizing anybody here, i'm will send them to the senate and in that void you have a lot of criticizing myself. >> julia, how does all this play speculation about what might be happening in the senate. with democratic primary voters? there is a lot of conversation >> well, it's interesting, about what lisa murkowski's garrett. i think joe biden really hit the potential defection would mean, nail on the head yesterday when you have senator richard he walked back those comments. he said he shouldn't have blumenthal hinting that there answered the question about the are five to ten senate impeachment trial and the subpoena in the first place republicans that have similar because now it's really the top misgivings about mitch mcconnell's pledge to work this campaign news that we are total coordination. talking about. it's a staring contest at this democratic primary voters and point. mcconnell has said there will we've seen this through polling aren't necessarily concerned not be any conversations until congress gets back january 6th. prime alleys about impeachment. into that void, into that obviously they're interested in silence the president is trying it and have followed it, to alter the conversation by however, health care, the going after house speaker nancy economy, prescription health reform those kitchen table pelosi. issues are the issues that hit so i suspect it will keep up today, we will see if it does home for primary voters and what they've been talking about with and we will see if house speaker a number of the candidates, and nancy pelosi decides to respond joe biden clearly realizes that in any way, shape or form. >> thank you. i think the biden campaign as joining me now daniel well as the buttigieg campaign lippman, reporter at "politico" are really in a way banking on a number of these senators, and susan del percio republican notably bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, going back to strategic and msnbc political washington ahead of this analyst. impending impeachment trial and daniel, this feels like a tale they will -- buttigieg and biden

of two temperaments, nancy pelosi maybe getting under the will, therefore, kind of have president's skin a little bit. the campaign trail really ahead are the tweet storms from the of iowa and new hampshire to president and the silence from the speaker strategy or is this really campaign without these just a function of two very two larger names on the trail, however, biden is still being different personalities and plagued by these questions, so political styles? this really shows that he will >> i think it's a bit of both. very much have to deal with she doesn't want to give him any these questions on the campaign trail and that could negatively grist for his insults against impact him ahead of these two her and so wants to appear very crucial primary contests. >> susan, as a strategist what even-keeled. what's ironic is that, you know, would you tell biden and his she used to truck up to trump campaign to do? impeachment is the number one story on the planet. tower in new york 13 years ago how do you not get bogged down to beg for money from president in that if you are trying to run in this environment? trump when he was, you know, a >> by default he is part of it private citizen donald trump and pelosi wanted to get money from because donald trump made him part of it. i don't think that's what former him for the dccc. vice president biden wants to be but i think she probably has the talking about, but he likes taking it to the president holidays to spend with her saying, hey, he is the most family and thes shot obsessed with twitter like trump is and afraid of me, meaning biden, she is not holed up at his because that's why he's going after me. he knows i'm the biggest threat resort with sometimes rainy to him. weather in palm beach the last what he did at the editorial board meeting is kind of a few days. >> i think about what mitch rookie mistake. mcconnell may be thinking as he he was trying to show strength,

reads these tweets. do you think the speaker is getting under the president's frankly, and not realizing the consequences of his answers. skin in a way that might he should know better. he should have said, i will -- i ultimately affect the trial or is this just the president kind don't think i will be of venting? >> it's the president kind of subpoenaed, but if i am i will venting, but what it's allowing fight it in court because i is that the president wants to don't think it's just and leave further press on for a trial, it at that. which is exactly what mitch now he's walking it back. mcconnell does not want to see. in this case he made it more of a story than it should have he does not want to see a long been. drawn out trial, he doesn't want >> there is another candidate to see witnesses and the show making headlines today on impeachment, congresswoman tulsi that donald trump thinks he would see because as we know gabbard who suggested that it's not going to be like it was in the house where you have impeachment proceedings would only embolden the president. she was elaborating on why she voted present on the articles of representatives asking questions and going after witnesses. impeachment. susan, i wonder what do you think the rational is behind that's not the way -- the senators aren't even allowed to gabbert's position on this. ask questions, mch does it play well for her politically or undermine everything else the democrats are trying to do? >> i think she's just looking for attention, frankly, this was a way of her getting it and she's hoping that keeps her raising money to continue. she hasn't made the last debate, i don't think she's making the next one, i think this is just a desperate attempt for attention. >> julia, i want you to weigh in on that. if this is a desperate play for attention is it working? >> i think it feeds to tulsi

gabbard's pace. i think tulsi gabbard has an interesting base, anti-establishment, a bit alternative to that democratic establishment and they don't necessarily like to see her fit into that mold of the joe bidens or the elizabeth warrens. they want to see a new kind of candidate. i guess that helps her there. but it's interesting to look at tulsi gabbert -- her other fans, she actually has quite a bit of fans and supporters on the right side of the aisle, the republican side of the aisle. you have seen them kind of embrace this present vote and really, you know, tout that for her. i'm wondering if that had anything to do with her calculus in voting present. >> very interesting dynamic. julia manchester, susan del percio, thank you both. and we're talking the role of cash in the 2020 race, whether it's messaging or money that's keeping some democrats in the race. plus wildfire crisis in australia with koalas left fighting for their lives. why the situation for those

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we're following breaking news out of monsey, new york. five people were injured in a stabbing spree last night, they were all members of the ultra orthodox jewish community and were gathered for a hanukkah celebration at the time of the attack. joining me now is evan bernstein, new york/new jersey regional director with the anti-defamation league. my understanding is you were on the scene last night. can you talk a little bit about how the community there is

responding. it's our understanding that services resumed after this attack. >> yeah, it did. i got to -- i got on the ground about 11:00 last night and actually just left monsey about 6:00 this morning so i was there overnight. given that the community were dealing with law enforcement and actually before the crime scene was fully blocked off i was able to actually get to the rabbi, his sin fwog which is next to the house where the stabbings took place where he was still performing services and was moving on and it was, you know, praying for the victims, praying for the family member that was stabbed and it was really a sight to behold to see this community who was reeling from such pain but still trying to celebrate the holiday of hanukkah. it was really a testament to their faith. >> we don't yet know anything really about the motive in this attack and we can see the facts of what happened here. i'm wondering how will authorities assess whether or not this was a hate crime,

whether or not these folks were targeted specifically because of their religion? >> well, i know, you know, there was a tremendous amount of coordination between law enforcement and rockland county and with the new york city police department, with the apprehension especially really after the stabbing yesterday. i know there is a lot that's going to be done continuously with the fbi and state police to be able to, you know, find out what's happened. the person has been apprehended, this he will do everything in their power i'm sure to find out the motives and and ensure that the person was a lone wolf, that there weren't other people involved and find out why this happened. that's one of the biggest questions on everyone's mind in monsey. i was talking to so many people that were there. there were almost 100 plus people at the crime scene as it was happening last night and their biggest fear is why and they want those questions answered, and they know what's happened in new york city over the past week with the spaight of attacks that have taken place

almost on a daily and hourly basis and before that jersey city, the jersey city murders that took place and the acts of domestic terror. it's affecting the ultra orthodox community in a very negative way and there is a lot of fear right now. >> there has been this string of attacks, anti-semitic attacks in and around new york. does the adl have any idea what's fueling this? where this is coming from? >> we have seen a rise of anti-semitic around across the country. there's anti-semitism on the right, on the left and even anti-semitism in the middle. what we're seeing now a lot of is within other minority groups, unfortunately, that are involved with the attacking nature of the jews right now. we're seeing more and more of that. we need to figure out why this is happening. a lot of the theories especially in the greater metro new york area is there is a lot of issues of gentrification, a lot of issues with lack of communication and unfortunate stereo types about jews,

kennards that are rearing their heads. there is a lot of speculation but we need to do a better job and that's where we need the help with law enforcement and elected officials to help us get more information from these perpetrators. so many of them unfortunately are under the age of 18, they're juveniles so we need to get especially more careful when dealing with young people and these issues. we're seeing more and more of these things happening with young kids that are actually the ones making the physical assaults and actually doing the crimes themselves, that's really concerning to us. >> a lot of folks outside these communities, frankly, don't know much about them. how can outsiders be helpful, how can they educate themselves? what can other folks do to be involved on this both on the issue of this particular attack and addressing this kind of anti-semitism that were just discussing more broadly? >> i think it's important to obviously be aware what's going on in our society and read the news, figure out what's going on. these groups that typically are more insulated and are not necessarily going to be, you

know, doing things socially with other groups in the same way that you may be used to seeing other jewish groups. it's important to understand that they are just practicing their religion and they are trying to do exactly what every american wants to do which is the freedom of practicing their religion in the way they want, they are not hurting anybody and they want to be able to live a comfortable and peaceful existence. because some of their social norms are not the norm for our society does not mean they should be targeted. learning about why orthodox jews do what they do and how they practice their religion is sometimes mistaken for, you know, for being -- wanting to be outsiders when in reality that's just the faith that they have and they really are open to having conversations and wanting people to learn about them. it's about wanting to be proactive and doing that and a not just judging a book by its cover but learning m why people behave the way they do and practice religion the way they do. >> evan bernstein, thank you very much for coming on with us

this morning. and focus on change or come to a consensus, the fine line democratic candidates are walking when it comes to 2020. that's next. e wainlkg when it comes to 2020. that's next. do and practice religion the way do and practice religion the way

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a look at our headlines this morning. the ntsb is still trying to figure out what caused a deadly plane crash in louisiana yesterday that killed a sports reporter and at least four other people. >> it looked really low to the ground, you know, starting to shake, wobble, and then it just skidded into the post office and then instantly i just saw -- it just burst into flames. >> six people were on board the twin-engine plane headed for the poach bowl in atlanta when it crashed right after takeoff. the plane hit a car and injured multiple people on the ground, among those killed carley mccord a sports journalist for the nbc affiliate new orleans and daughter-in-law of an lsu coach. a powerful winter storm is sweeping across the upper midwest today as millions of people are headed home from holiday travel. winter storm warnings are in effect from colorado to minnesota with 8 to 16 inches of wind blown snow pounding the northern states. to the south heavy rain and thunderstorms are expected in kentucky, tennessee and parts of the deep south.

number one linked louisiana state blasting number four oklahoma last night to win a spot in the national title game. heisman trophy winner joe burrow set a record with eight total touchdowns in the game leading lsu so a 63-28 peach bowl victory over the sooners. tigers versus tigers after a clemson come back victory against ohio state. clemson seized momentum and beat ohio state 29-23. they will face lsu in the championship game on november 13th in new orleans. that will be a shootout. and back now to breaking news. new york police investigating a possible ninth anti-semitic attack in the metro area this month. the latest came last night in new york city's suburbs when five people were stabbed at the home of a rabbi. police have not released a low testify in that attack but are increasing police presence in neighborhoods are large jewish populations. joining me now is congressman

espiat. congressman, new york city is your homehometown, there has be this spike of ant submit tick attacks. what do you think is going on? >> i think the environment is charged with hatred, racism, i think that the toxic political environment is not helpful to the every day lives of people across the state and the city. i'm very concerned having a very large jewish community in my district that this is happening. we will organize and we will coordinate with law enforcement to ensure that all the communities where there are a large number of jewish families are protected. >> are there policing solutions, legislative solutions, social solutions? i mean, how do you see the new york community more bro tre are policing solutions to it, but ultimately this is a social

problem that has permeated throughout the state and the country. i think the country has seen racism, anti-semitism far today, unprecedented levels, i'm concerned about that. >> i want to talk about the other big story going on right now, the impeachment trial. the president over the last couple days has tweeted the name of the whistle-blower or the alleged whistle-blower. we at nbc are not reporting that name, i know a lot of people have tried to avoid using t i wonder how this plays into the senate trial aspects, the impeachable conduct aspects of the president. what's your take on this? >> this is more the reckless behavior of the president which led to his impeachment in the house of representatives and now even though the whistle-blower's attorney back in november issued a kecease and desist warning to the president and told the president and government they felt the whistle-blower -- the whistle-blower's life could be in danger, he still goes ahead

and does this. so this is troubling behavior from the leader of the free world. >> the president is pretty clearly furious that these articles of impeachment have not been pushed over to the senate, that the trial appears to be delayed in getting started. what's the strategy here? when should this trial get under way? >> it should get under way when it's not a sham, when it's not a kangaroo court, when we get signals from the senate that, in fact, there will be a transparent process guided by the constitution and provided by the chief justice. >> republicans have argued that democrats have said all along in the impeachment process this is an urgent need, we have to do this right now. how do you square an urgent need to impeach this president with waiting to start a trial? >> by doing it right. by making sure that both leaders of the senate sit down and establish the rules that are transparent, equitable, that we hear from additional witnesses, even some republican senators have already expressed concerns about the process in the senate. so we should not rush in there until we know it's right.

we did our process in a very meticulous way, both sides of the aisle were in each step of the process, the three committees that met first privately to question and interrogate the witnesses, close to 20 witnesses both democrats and republicans were there, then we went to the open hearing where both republicans and democrats were there and the american people were able to witness the entire process and finally we went to the judiciary committee that drafted the articles of impeachment where, again, both democrats and republicans the american people -- that's all we're asking for, we're asking for a just process where the american people will feel that government is working for them. >> i want to ask you a2020. the "washington post" had an interesting story about the 2020 candidates essentially ignoring latino voters, not giving that very important part of the democratic party the respect that they deserve and talking about the issues that latinos care b i wonder how you see that

issue playing out here and what you think the 2020 candidates, the democrats, need to do to address that. >> i share that opinion with the "washington post" and i think that next year, 2020 will be just like 2018 was a year of the woman, 2020 will be the year of the latino. i think that issues that are relevant and not just immigration, by the way, other issues that are relevant to latinos have not been fully debated in that community and very often that community feels slighted if not forgotten. so i think that 32 million latinos that are eligible to vote, 13% of the population they're very young, an average of 27 years old and along millennials they are an average of 19 years old. every year close to a million latinos become 18 years of age and eligible to vote. >> you and i remember the republican autopsy where they argued that the future of their party would be going after latino voters, that they needed to have a bigger tent.

if democrats don't started a dressing issues with latino voters can republicans make inroads? >> in places like florida, in places like even pennsylvania where you have pockets of latino communities there, in places like arizona and nevada, places like even ohio, very important base of voters. i think they will make the difference in this election. we must -- we democrats must win the latino vote huge. i think often we leave as much as 30% on the table for the other side of the aisle and if we do that again we won't win the election. we have to capture their attention, their enthusiasm, address their issue and make sure they vote for us. >> the latino community is not a mon lit. >> no. >> it's a ton of different groups and different locations and different us:i want to ask you about something that was a big deal this time last year when the federal government was shut down over the construction of the border wall. congress gave the president $1.4 billion in funding for this but

now the latest fight along the boarder in texas is with private landowners saying they don't want to give up their land for a presidential border wall. i wondering if you see this as a fight congress will get involved in again in the new year to try to do more, potentially now you have a democratic-controlled house to stop construction along the boarder >> i think we should get involved. there are environmental issues, there are issues of eminent domain in the border, there are historical issues. the families have owned ranches, several veteran cemeteries which are sacred land is right at the border. there are a host of issues that will really throw red flags up in this process. i think government should be sensitive, they should not violate sacred land where veterans from world war ii, korean and vietnam wars are resting. i think families own property -- ranches that have been owned by families there for over a century that do big on an ongoing basis with mexico are in

that part of the region, in the valley region of texas. yes, this is very important and i think that the wall is a very stupid proposal to a very complex issue. >> we're going to leave it there, congressman. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> sh >>. what the single most important issue to democratic voters might be when they cast their vote in 2020 and what the candidates better know about it. candidates better know about it. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ are you currently using a whitening toothpaste, but not seeing results? try crest 3d whitestrips. its enamel-safe formula lifts and removes stains to provide 100% noticeably whiter teeth or your money back. try crest 3d whitestrips. apps except work.rywhere... why is that? is it because people love filling out forms?

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a new editorial in "usa today" has a strong message for the democratic party. they say beating donald trump in the 2020 o election isn't everything, it's the only thing, arguing democrats should stop squablng over purity tests and wine cave fundraisers and instead the party's voters should focus on one overriding issue, which of the candidates is best equipped to beat donald trump next november? joining me now bishop garrison co-founder and of the of the rainy center for public policy and susan del percio msnbc political analyst. susan, i feel like this is a version of the electability debate we've been having for quite a long time. what's your reaction as we get ready to turn the page into 2020? >> well, i think all democrats and some republicans and independents think the most important thing to do is beat donald trump. democratic primary voters have different ideas of who that person should be. the party is pretty much divided should we get someone from the more progressive side who can

turn out voters and, you know, prevent what happened in 2016 in states like michigan -- excuse me, michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, which was less than 100,000 votes, or do they make a turn and say, let's get some of those independent voters and cast a broader net of people who are likely to support the nominee. so it becomes the warren/sanders, versus the biden, klobuchar, buttigieg forces of the party. so at the end of the day, i mean, that's up for them to fight it out, but i will say this, the turnout against donald trump in 2018 and even in some of the elections in 2019 is so strong and there's so many republicans and independents who do have buyers remorse with donald trump who won't vote for him again, they may be more apt to vote for a more moderate candidate versus staying home or not vogue for elizabeth warren or bernie sanders. >> bishop, the op-ed goes on to

say if democrats get too hung up on debating the finer points of fundraiser purity or medicare for all they will face those issues in perpetuity. are they focusing on the wrong issues? >> no, i think err first and foremost they need to make a comprehensive, complete and sound argument as to why they should be the democratic candidate within this primary. you have to take into account that you have to win this first election before you start getting ahead of yourself and talking about the general. i think that the democratic platform really presents an argument within the general election itself for a multitude of different topics that really resonate with all -- with all of the voting population right now. when you talk about universal health care, when you talk about the environment, when you talk about a strong economy for everyone, not just those on top, those are all attributes that really respond with everyone. so you focus on having a strong

election within this primary, you're going to rise up and be the best candidate overall to defeat donald trump come 2020. >> the filmmaker michael moore has been sounding alarms about the state of play in some midwestern states. here is what he said friday about the 2020 election on "democracy now." >> if the election were held today hillary won by 3 million popular votes, i believe whoever the democrat is next year is going to win by 4 to 5 million popular votes. if the vote were today i believe he would win the electoral states that he would need because living out there i will tell you his level of support has not gone down one inch. in fact, i'd say it's even mora bid than it was before. they are afraid he could lose. >> susan, you hear this a lot the theory that democrats could run up the score in big coastal states and potentially still lose in the electoral college. should democrats be worried about that kind of possibility?

>> of course. i mean, it doesn't matter if you win california by five votes or five million votes that's going to go blue. the margin of popular vote doesn't matter but what does matter is voter turnout. we can't go back to 2016. when you look at hillary clinton and donald trump no two candidates have ever had such high unfavorable numbers and high not trustworthy numbers. whoever is running against donald trump will not have the same baggage that hillary clinton had and i don't mean to relive that campaign, but that's just a fact. the negatives will not be that high against whoever is running. i mean, when you look at those states, those are states that tend to be -- they were blue states, now we could argue they're potentially swing states. so you need that moderate voter to come out and support the democratic candidate. and if it's elizabeth warren or bernie sanders, they are going to be scared. and those are also big union states who don't want to lose

their private health insurance. they worked very hard for those rights. so that could also be a problematic for a more progressive candidate. >> bishop. >> i disagree with that. i think there's one thing we are overlooking and it's actually turnout for a democratic candidate when you talk about the base. look at 2016 and look at 2018, the individuals that turned out in historic numbers were african-american women, that is the base of the democratic party. in 2018 they turned out at 55% for eligible voters. that was 6% over the national average. so if you actually focus on these issues that interest them, not just for the primary they're going to turn out in droves for you. they turned out for hillary clinton in 2016 and 94% -- 94%, they can help you close these gaps when you are talking about losing by 70,000 votes across three states. >> but when you are -- >> are there enough -- >> when you're talk being 2018

look how the house went blue. it went in districts that went for donald trump and came back blue because they are moderate democrats who were running who were able to flip those districts. so the turnout is there. when we look at what happened in kentucky and major cities in the south, the turnout was there not because of who was running on the democratic side, it was an anti-democrat -- anti-trump vote that came out in droves. so i think that motivation is already there, the question is can you bring the rest of the country with you? >> you cannot be purely -- you cannot be purely anti-trump and expect to win anything. you have to have an argument that resonates with the electorate that you're facing and that's exactly what a lot of these candidates did and it wasn't purely about just being anti-trump or being towards the middle, they really spoke to the heart of what these issues are and to the heart of what the voters wanted to hear. >> we will be hashing out the lessons of 2016 and 2018 right up to the election day in 2020,

i think. >> thank you both. >> thank you. coming up, in the land down under how an unfolding natural disaster is endangering the beloved koala. that's next. s endangering the beloved koala. that's next. our detergent... that's why more dishwasher brands recommend cascade platinum... ...with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. cascade platinum. you have a brother in the secyes sir.alion? they're walking into a trap. your orders are to deliver a message calling off tomorrow morning's attack. [ dramatic music ] why in god's name did you have to choose me? if you don't get there in time. it will be a massacre. we will lose sixteen hundred men. your brother among them. through the at&t network, edge-to-edge intelligence gives you the power to see every corner of your growing business.

from using feedback to innovate... to introducing products faster... to managing website inventory... and network bandwidth. giving you a nice big edge over your competition. that's the power of edge-to-edge intelligence. the concern for crews is that it is sparking thunderstorms ahead of it. it is sparking its own weather, creating very erratic fire behavior. it is very, very volatile here. >> a dire situation getting

worse with hot weather in the forecast the next few days. wildfires have killed nine people and destroyed 1,000 homes in the last few months. the fires are having an impact on the beloved call las as well. th water. a few days left, leaders in sydney are saying the iconic fireworks show will go on as scheduled. a quarter million signed a petition demanding that the show be canceled. they said the fireworks fund could have been spent fighting the fire. you heard that report at the beginning of the segment saying the fires were creating their own weather. can you explain that. . >> yeah. hi, garrett. thanks for having me. it is pretty straightforward and close to what's happening with the climate system generally. whether it's based on temperature gradients, the differences between hot and cold. when you have fires this big, it

is super hot. as it gets really hot, you get hot air on the ground and cool air above. that tension in the weather system creates its own weather. and so it's actually very similar to the conditions that you have for thunderstorms. that's what's happening in australia with these massive hot fires burning. they are creating weather systems that create thunderstorms that can have lightning strikes that can ignite more fires. >> this is a fairly straightforward example of climate change. >> yeah. it is complex. humans start more than 90% of fires both in australia and the u.s. it is clear australia had a warm, dry winther hot, dry summer. it is like humans ignite the match with climate change. >> obviously this is a social

and ecological disaster for that country. when americans start paying attention is when you start talking about the call las. it is burning 28,000. are there fears the fire have significantly reduced their population? you point out in this "national geographic" article, no, wall las aren't functional extinct yet. >> estimates are more than 300,000 in the wild. there is encroachment on their habitat. it is not great for them. it is an indicator how bad the wildfires are. they climb up a tree. unfortunately they are moving from tree top to tree top. so they can't get out of the way. as a population, they are not going to go extinct any time

soon. . >> that's good. we saw the campfire in the u.s., the deadliest in american history. you talk a little bit about the parallels here. is there a big picture change in how we look at wildfires, forest fires that we address globally on this issue. . >> both australia and the western united states are a fire-based ecosystem. so they burn. part of that is legacy of fire suppressions both in the united states and australia. we spend a long time putting out fires. that means a lot of vegetation and plants are available to burn when the fires ignite. that is different than what's happening in other parts of the country like themediterranean. we know climate change is having a tremendous impact. in the united states there's been a growing call in going abouting to indigenous

techniques such as controlled burns. so when they happen they're not so catastrophic. >> thank you for coming in. >> thanks for having me. we're out of time for this hour of msnbc live. i'll join the panel on "up" with david gura. we'll talk about ground zero and the states where the fight will be at its worst. stick around for that. stick around for that. do i nee what even is this? it looks like cheese but it smells like barf. with tide pods, you don't need to worry. the pre-treaters are built in. nice! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. ♪ ♪ everything your trip needs, for everyone you love. expedia.

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♪ this is "up". i'm david gura. the action has been on twitter this weekend. various at joe biden, saying he has always cooperated but there is no legal basis for him to be subpoenaed in the impeachment trial. then at real donald trump repeating a name some say is the whistle-blower. twitter finds work for idle hands. and on vacation the president has a lot of time to tweet his frustration with house speaker nancy pelosi's decision to hold onto the articles of impeachment. iran conducts military drills with china and russia. and during hanukkah the stabbing at the home of a rabbi in new york. the latest from the city in just a moment. garrett haake covers congress

for nbc news, shermichael singleton. and with us from washington, a congressional correspondent for the