tv Deadline White House MSNBC January 8, 2020 1:00pm-2:00pm PST
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les likely to be at war than they've been thinking for the last few days and iran is not going to shut down the straight of hormuz and cause your gasoline to hike back up. i'm going to see you back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern. "deadline" with nicole wallace begins right now. hi, everyone. with the world on edge, donald trump appears to b-line to the door marked deescalation. for a few hours last night with rockets being launched from iran at a u.s. base in iran t appeared the crisis could go either way. people were transfixed by moments like these. when the white house announced the president would not address the nation last night during those attacks, news accounts began to emerge at the president
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was casting a about for an off ramp. "new york times," quote, after storming to the edge of the cliff this week early suggestions show at the u.s. and iran do not want to jump, at least not yet. there was visible relief at the the highway of a larger war in which the administration may have been speeding, may have provided an off ramp. for all of the public chest bumping, breath sides took measures to deescalate. but the thing with deescalation is it can be fragile. quote, analysts caution even if the two sides ease off in the short term, the conflict could very well play out in other ways in the weeks and months to come. iran has many proxy groups at the could stir trouble in new ways for american troops, american allies like saudi arabia and israel.
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and they remain weary of a possible attack on sites. the president addressed the public this morning, making sure to place at least some of the blame on his predecessor. >> iran's hostilities substantially increased after the foolish iran nuclear deal was signed. in 2015. and they were given $250 billion, not to mention $1.8 billion in cash. the missiles fired at us last night were paid for by the funds made available by the last administration. >> an accusation fact checked almost immediately. susan rice, who appeared with our colleague, andrea mitchell. >> this is another series of despicable lies. the fact at the three and a
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half -- or three years after taking office, he remains obsessed with president obama. just shows president trump's extreme weakness and insecurity. the facts about the iran nuclear deal are at the it effectively halted and rolled back iran's nuclear program. >> donald trump, never wanting to let facts get in the way to air his grievances with his rivals, also envision as bigger role for nato, you know our biggest allies, who he now realizes he needs. >> today i am going to ask nato to become much more involved in the middle east process. the very defective jcpoa expires shortly anyway. and gives iran a clear and quick path to nuclear breakout. iran must abandoned its nuclear
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ambitions and end its support for terrorism. the time has come for the united kingdom, germany, france, russia and china to recognize this reality. they must now break away from the remnants of the iran deal or jcpoa and we must all work together towards making a deal with iran at the makes the world a safer and more peaceful place. >> and just starting to break over the last few minutes, reaction from those briefings the trump administration was n conducting for congress on the evidence and intel at the gthat here in the first place that they say justify the killing of soleimani. some democrats calling at the utterly unconvincing.
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with us, former democratic senator claire mccaskill, column n columnnist for the "washington post." and also joining us, retired four-star general barry mccaffrey, at the i wanted to reach through the space at the separates us and ask for a personal reassurance at the all of our allies would be safe. what do you think of the assessments today? >> well, first of all the president's address was monumentally right. fortunately he took the off ramp. we were headed towards a possible high intensity battle with iranians in the persian gulf. no one wanted at the, certainly not mr. trump politically and not the iranians. it would have been devastating. it's to be applauded. last night's attack -- i don't want to give too much good will
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to the iranians about the symbolism to their attack. we are ferociously dug in. we have wonderful antimissile systems we got out of the navy. we actually shoot down mortar rounds and missiles when they're inbound. and we were alerted. we get launch on warning. we watched the missiles come up. they tell this impact point. so, i think it was fortunate these well-trained troops didn't get hit. at the end of the day the monumental blunder of hitting soleimani at the baghdad airport and killing a militia leader was astonishing. a mar-a-lago conversation and mark milly show up, no white house situation room, no marshaling of allies, no engagement of congress. this is amateur hour.
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scared the death out of mr. trump, i'm convinced. and he ran for the exit wisely. >> you know the assessment of this monumental blunder being put in motion by the president and his human reaction to that what you call a human blunder being fear. is one i heard from two senior intel officials. and i wonder if that's what you see after watching it the way we see a lot of it. what do our allies see in this president? >> i think it would be fascinating to hear at a given moment in time what's being said about the trump administration. look, one advantage mr. trump got is he scares our enemies and allies alike to death. impulsive decisions. they may not make any sense for u.s. national security purposes. some of it is bluster babble. we're going to hit antiquities
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and what would at the mean? the marines would guard smithsonian institutes. some of this is complete nonsense. by the way the u.s. armed forces would not carry out a strike in clear violation of international law. they won't do it. then they'd engage congress and we bid it a constitutional crisis. the problem is at the end of the day the iranians have an diminished capacity to strike us. we'll replace a general an hour later. the iranians want us out of iraq. it's likely that's going to happen. the shiite plurality of the country is hostile to u.s. interests. we're vulnerable. we stopped the anti-isis fight completely. and by the way the iranians are
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tooling up the nuclear program again. so we're in a very bad position in the long run. >> and just to keep general mccaffrey's articulate description of where we are alive, a monumental blunder followed by a speech today at the succeeded in deescalating last night's crisis where it could have gone either way. where are we right now? >> well, here's where we are? what has changed since soleimani was killed? we have united the shiite factions in iraq, a populous arm of the faction in iraq is pounding the table saying get the united states out of here. they used to be saying get iraq out of here. you have people of iran united. we had demonstrations in the street. there was real tension in iran around this government.
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now you're seeing this coming together of the shia in iran and iraq and frankly, the bad guys out there, these militias, soleimani had discipline over them. lord only knows how disciplined these proxy forces are going to be. whether the shiite militia in arack or they're the bad actors in turkey or afghanistan or wherever they are. i'm not sure how our national security has been enhanced by this exercise. but it sure was a wake-up call for the rest of the world that this president was willing to do things certainly beyond ordinary. >> and put on the table by a pentagon leadership at the never thought you'd choose this option. there is a part of the story that represents the
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discalculation of the kind officials still around. the people at the went to trump, it's been reported at the they didn't think he'd pick this option. i think the public, with all the scar tissue can hold facts in their mind. yes, soleimani was a horrible soldier and we're in more risk now because of what we did. >> our national security is not enhanced. it's probably degraded. i think we know how this plays out, really. in the large sense. because we have the example of north korea. the hawks are all saying the president showed deterrent worked and the followers are all encouraged but we're not. we saw the president back away from the brink today just as he backed away from his fire and
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fury rhetoric about north korea. remember, that, he was supposed to be the tough guy to bring north korea to the table on bended knee. and they're merrily going about making more nuclear weapons. and again with iran, he is not going to follow through with what they want. but that's what's going to happen. >> it's so interesting that these calculations they made was that the republican beige and i remember the south korea primary coming up and it was a big military thing in south korea.
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there's such a kwauf pressure within donald trump. i saw it in his statement. he was somehow convinced in whatever briefing took place at mar-a-lago to strike and take out soleimani but no appetite for military engagement. >> which is an amazing thing because he's conflicted with the perception of weakness. he's haunted by the iranian hostage crisis and benghazi. so he was reactive to the siege on the embassy in iraq. your point earlier, i think, is the defining one. he has a way of stepping on his own intentions. by taking the very bold action, he's dug down into this situation where the reaction is
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he's tightened the vice. again these are new sanctions they embraced today. where is the campaign against isis? it's fallen apart. >> we abandoned it. everything is askew and confused. and their objections are not being met. their objection is no nuclear in iran. he doesn't have a strategic path. the one thing different about north korea is his strategy, whether he says it or not, his policy is containment of a nuclear north korea. >> he'll never say at the. >> but everyone around the world has learned that he's fine. our enemies are not so scared of him. and what happened that's consistent, he has threat russians come tine fill the vacuum. iraq, venezuela and ukraine,
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afghanistan and syria. that's the one thread at the continues through all of these policies. >> and plays whatever you want to call it, rock and roll. he doesn't play any strategic long game. and puts him at a disadvantage. what does the white house sort of push back with in terms of substance to say yahuh. >> and he tries to win a news moment. >> like twitter? >> yeah. it's like at the moment. he wants to win at the exchange even if it leads the flat out lying. his policy has been incoherent. he wanted it, even when he would promise to get out of the forever wars. at the was something at the really inspired a lot of them and at the same time he wanted to, quote, bomb the hell out of
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isis. our reporting is part of those mar-a-lago meetings, he summoned back the al baghdadi raid at the it sent a message. he wasn't hiding but they felt they could get him and this is a depiction of american might we're going to come get you and felt there was intelligence that suggested those threats were coming. at the still remains an open matter to discuss. we saw the president walking up to the brink and taking a step back. certainly there was a calculation there. teheran had to save face. they launched missiles last night. but they were able to turn to their people and say, look, we're pushing back what happened. they were gearing up for an oval office address. it was never settled. press secretary pushed back but
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they were ready to go and perhaps escalated matters. cooler heads prevailed, they interpreted what happened and confirmed no casualties among iraqis and americans on the base. and today we saw a deescalation. what happens next remains unclear. all it takes is one stray rocket, one mistake and we're plunged right back. >> general mccaffrey, i want to ask you about donald trump's erratic -- i don't see him in his jammies watching "fox and friends." so i don't know what at tthat l like. he talks about bombing cultural sites. he doubles down on bombing iran cultural sites and says, yeah, we're coming for the cultural sites. mark esper is at the podium and says of course we won't do at the. we'll follow international law.
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and pompeo is neither for or against it but says the president never said the seven times that he did. you are in the military and you have put your faith, your life, your livelihood and everything you have on the line for the chain of command. what does that look like? >> probably two different takes. the senior military leadership don't want to fight. in fact it's sometime as problem for the political leadership. that's why we put old guys and gals and generals and admirals. they don't want to break the machinery. they love their troops. so, i think at the whole body of national leadership are really worried. some of this is crazy stuff. i mean, saying openly the president of the united states would rather torture tear rszs, we ought to kill their families,
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bomb antiquity sites. you've publicly announced the iraqis. if you told us to leevl, we're not going to unless you pay us for our air base. did we say at the to the japanese, south koreans? this is nutty stuff. when you see a brigade of the 82nd airborne deploy or a marine landing team or marine regimen, they are happy to move towards a fight. so i don't think trump is a factor in what goes on at brigade level. >> that's heartening. you always give us some glimmer of hope. those briefings today on capitol hill on the intel at the led to the strike on soleimani are wrapped up. we'll get an update on what the intel picture looked like and whether or not it was convincing. later we'll be joined by an
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obama official who takes issue. and john bolton's offer to testify, senate republicans let their political calculations show again. we'll show you their latest move to get what nancy pelosi won't give them, the articles of impeachment. give them, the articles of impeachment. ey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea.
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beforehand. already in the first six days, the effects have been cataclysmic. >> without counting on content, it was sauf moric and utterly unconvincing. >> and on the intel that led them to launch the fatal strike on qassem soleimani. and what did you learn? >> good afternoon, nicole. i did not learn thatd there was any new evidence to justify taking such a dramatic act against a senior iranian general. the president described this as an imminent threat of the united states. i didn't see evidence of an imminent threat. and so what at the leaves us
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with is we've taken this provocative strike against the iranians and thank god no u.s. persons were killed last night but at the doesn't mean it ends there with the iranians. let's not go to war with iran. congress will exercise its war and we'll vote on a resolution to limit the president. this could have been avoided by staying in the nuclear agreement we worked so hard to get by pressuring iran through sanctions. >> and soleimani who has the blood of thousands of american soe soldiers on his hand or are you have saying the risk out weighted the reward of taking out an american adversary? i just want you to be real specific here. >> what i can say is you and your viewers know this is an awful person.
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however, there are a lot of awful people at tthat lead and for other awful countries. not until we took out a japanese admiral has the united states taken an action like this against a senior military leader. so, yes, it is dramatically escalating the tension. and by doing it misleading the american people about what the threat was. i have not seen the specific evidence and neither has anyone elsen on the intelligence committee. >> what was it about the briefings? i mean these are some of the more respected figures of gina haskell, the cia director -- i mean, who was there? defense secretary esper. >> >> pompeo. >> what was it about what those four professionals said, who, in
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the context of the trump administration, can sometimes tend to be described as adults in the room, what was specifically sophomoric? >> i can't go into any specifics. i can tell you there was a lot of concern at the intelligence the president and team sited last week to justify taking the strike is just not there. and if that's the kagcase, what you're left with is you did something purely because you could. and if you're not prepared for what happens next meaning what this does in the middle east or the fact at the the president again will lose trust and we'll continue to alienate our allies, that doesn't make us any safer, doesn't make a u.s. service m member any safer and doesn't help us when we're going to need allies in the future. >> i think he's told a record
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number of lies and even his own base of support doesn't believe him. but you're not powerless. i know more than i wish i did of intelligence questions after military action. will you call for the declassification and open doors of the national security team? will congress try to reassert themselves as a check on the commander in chief? >> thank god the people voted to give us house of representatives. we will seek to protect the american service member and make sure we're not drawn into another war in the middle east, particularly one based on lies. >> so to try to nail you down, will you call for declassification of some of the intel so the public can see what you saw today? >> i support telling the public as much as we can and for the
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administration not to just hide behind vague descriptions. we do not discount how dangerous of an individual this general was. but you can't show there was truly an imminent threat that was credible and specific, then all you've done is taken a provocative act that makes u.s. troops more in harm's way in the region for here in the united states. and at ththat, itself, is a rec act. >> and democrats aren't the only ones saying at the. brett mcguirk, who was the head of the coalition of isis. people at the have spent time in the region share your assessment. i'm trying to understand how the public will learn what you learned today? >> yes, the public should know what i can say and what chairman
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schiff has said is we have not seen evidence to justify the imminence argument the administration has made. that we'll do all we can to be as transparent as possible. so the evidence to the american people. americans, as moral leaders in the world, have a trust deficit because of what happened with iraq. this president has himself a trust deficit on all things at the he talks about. and so that's all the more reason for our credibility in the world, the credibility of service members and their families, who were very anxious last night, show this evidence at the justified dramatically escalating the conflict. >> i'm going to have to ask you to come back tomorrow and talk impeachment. but one question. we haven't talked, at least -- you may have had other media appearances. but i haven't had the chance to
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k and about the significance of the people hearing from john bolton. describe the ukraine pressure campaign as a drug deal and rudy giuliani as a grenade. >> i think senator mansion said it best today. a trial in the senate without john bolton is a sham trial. our priority as we seek to send articles to the senate are assurances that it would be a fair trial. i'm not aware of any efforts to think beyond at the. if you look at where we've arrived since speaker pelosi led the impeachment and has held back the articles is, one, john bolton has come forward. two, we've had security and others procure documents we've not had before. three, mcconnell's position has changed from down right
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dismissing to talking about the clinton rules. i think you see the speaker's leverage does work. we should have assurance it's going to be a fair trial because the american public wants at the. >> we're going to take a break. before we do at the, general mccaffrey it would seem week after week about the erratic nature of the president and he lies about very, very small things as well. it would seem there's a very important role for congress to play, especially if there are legitimate questions, which it sounds like there are, about the intel. >> i've been teaching american government off and on for years now. under the constitution congress has willingly seated authority to the president of the united states for two decades. they don't want their fingerprints authorizing the use
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of force or denying the use of force. the build up to desert shield was a classic one where we narrowly supported president bush in a decision to go to the rescue ofcuate. so i don't think the situation is healthy for a democracy, particularly when you get a president like mr. trump who is, i hate to say this, but a lawless person. you've got the judicial system, the media and congress and voters are the only way to keep our democratic leaders accountable to the people. congress is a complete dysfunctional mess when it comes to doing at the. on the other side of the break, the table jumps in and reacts. break, the tab jleumps in and reacts we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out
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i had hoped and expected to see more information outlining, inmoral and legal justification. the briefing lasted only 75 minutes where upon our briefers left. this is not the biggest problem i had with the briefing, which i might add is the worst briefing i've seen, at least on a military issue, in the nine years i've served on the united states senate. what i found so distressing about the briefing is one of the messages we received from the briefers was do not discuss, do not debate the issue of appropriateness of further military intervention against iran and if so, you'll be emboldening iran. the idea we would be less safe by having a debate or discussion about the appropriateness of further military involvement. >> this is a huge deal.
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at the guy, right there, senator lee, he's a republican. the republicans in the senate are by and large zombies, walking along as donald trump obliterates things like truth, the rule of law and respect for our institution. he just left a briefing where he was a little peeved that the party's respect for the rule of law and congressional debate and institutions has been obliterated. i don't think i've seen anything like at the to deet. >> and mike lee won't be the only one upset. >> it's mike lee and rand paul. rand paul's expected. but if those briefers actually have the nerve to say we took out a general on someone else's soil but if you talk about it, you're going to embolden iran. i mean, that's a lot of nerve. it's time now for us to talk about the use of military force
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and the appropriate role of congress. at t that vote's going to happen tomorrow in the house. >> those briefers are america's secretary of defense, america's secretary of the pentagon, america chairman of the joint chiefs and cia. >> and by the way, the secretary of the defense stood at the podium and he was asked was the imminent threat weeks or days and he said days. the people who have heard the briefing said there was no imminent threat. what was he doing at the podium given americans the impression -- >> are you saying he's lying? >> i think he's trying to color it for trump. >> no one doubts soleimani is a bad character, especially timing, whether they were imminent. i was in florida with the
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president in mar-a-lago. we talked to some of his aids in and out. congressional aids were give an rudementry briefing. there was no question the timing issue remained very, very vague. i was with the president on the flight back from florida on sunday when he spoke to the press pool about half an hour. and he danced around the subject. >> imminence? >> yes. the idea we had to do this now or something terrible would happen. this is striking a republican is saying this today. suggesting this is an attempt to distract from impeachment and whatever it might be and say the administration has not been able to prove why the action is taken now. but doesn't change the fact at the it could have had a catastrophic fashion.
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>> mike lee is saying basically it's an american. this is the secretary of state, head of the cia, secretary of defense and the chairman of the joint chiefs saying they delivered the worst briefing and said if they're going to debate war power authority for congress, they would endanger america. i would be flabbergasted if there weren't congressional hearings. >> it's so unprecedented since he has taken hold of the party. and there's a feeling if you listen to the president's supporters that he needs to walk away from the podium along with the killing, this needs to be a win. in their mind it -- if there's no grey matter. it's black and white. it's a big white win. they're basically telling
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senators, because the subject is so controversial, don't even debate this because -- and scrutinize this braecause this a happy win for the president because killing bad guys feels good and the voters will be happy about this. the problem is i think they've been telegraphing for days they didn't have anything. because if you listen to every statement, which fan painfully, like you, i've had to. they've been calling up 1979 and stuff. when he says he had a trip, he was making stops, bad stops. he's been selling it but you've been watching the others walk it back and talk about decades, decades, decades. and i think most americans know if the threat is imminent, taking out the commander is too late. once it's been deligated -- if it's an imminent threat, killing the top guy is going to do nothing.
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>> he's not the guy who's going to wear the suicide vest or dliev suicide truck. clearly, those people are already in place. the plan was in motion and taking out the general would have no impact. so here's a question. at the was an extraordinary. my question is your former colleagues. are there other republicans who can hold those two thoughts in their minds? iran hawks. they might even agree soleimani was a bad enough guy to have killed at some point and at the same time believe in congress's responsibility and be appalled at the notion iran has no role
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to play are there uth urz? >> i believe there are. it's not 60-vote margin. and there's at least four or five republicans very nervous about their elections. and i think this, along with the bolton vote, i think is one you'll get. >> we have to sneak in a break. on the other side we'll be joined by one of president obama's senior national security advisors. or national security advisors
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that we had this strike and based on what we know isn't from imminent threat. if you look at the core national security interests, iran isn't going to abide by any of the limits. you've seen the iraqi parliament vote to evict the united states from the country. terrorism nuclear weapons are all put at risk by this action. so trump can get out there and take shots at my former boss, president obama, he can tout his own leadership as much as he wants. but at a certain point we have to look at the facts. and it's that they have been set back because of this policy they've been pursuing the last couple of years with iran.
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jonathan's point about news moments is exactly right. there will be further provocations, responses in the future that iran does not claim likely by proxy. so this is going to be an ongoing part of the trump presidency. >> we had a conversation and singled out trump's iran policy is most erratic, whereas with north korea he's head over heels with the person john mccain called a short murderous thug. loyalty to vladimir putin and abject refusal to say anything critical about him. but in iran, he doesn't want to go to war, doesn't believe in war in the middle east but he didn't like anything president obama did to lecithin risks at the iran would get a nuclear weapon. did you see this coming though?
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>> i did not. and frankly. it took on the risk of the wider military conflict of iran at the would be united states, never mind the iranian people, as well, of course. i think he took that risk without fully understanding it. based on the reporting it seems that way selecting this option. seems like not people around him to say to him do you recognize the consequences of what you're about to do? when he almost took that strike a few months ago it appears somebody like former chairman joe dunford did get to him and understand do you understand what the consequences on here? in many ways he appeared relieved that the chain of events he set in motion did not precipitate immediate lay much wider war but again looking at the facts there are nearly 20,000 more u.s. troops in the region than there were before he pulled out of the iran nuclear agreement because he had to keep
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putting troops in that area to either protect saudi arabia or our troops against these iranian provocations all of which increased since he left the nuclear deal and now we also have in the aftermath of this strike very real consequences already with respect to the iranian nuclear program and the counter isis mission an he sees iran as a well to go to to take shots at obama or to show how tough he is piling on sanctions but created a constant lodge inspector general of escalation and we are living with the constant risk of escalation because my expectation is that the iranians are not done retaliating for soleimani. the next one is likely to come from a proxy and probably won't claim it. they claim the one they may have targeted to avoid casualties and then won't claim the one to take casualties, that's what concerns me. >> ben, if you could stay over i want to ask you about the audacious accusation from donald trump that the rockets were paid for by your old boss, if you
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could stick around with us. >> yeah. >> we'll be right back. uh oh! what? i think i forgot to lock my buick. got it. i bet you lunch you can't make it in there. i'm thinkin' sushi. alexa, ask buick to start my suv. you can do that? you can do that? you can do that? yeah, with a buick. what? at the heart of every buick suv... is you. find out why buick is number one in dealer sales and service satisfaction. pay no interest for 72 months on most buick suv models plus current eligible gm owners get $750 purchase allowance.
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the last administration. >> ben rhodes? >> just an outrageous lie, nicole. they had a ballistic missile program before the deal and only rolled back the iranian nuclear program and iran did not get the amount of money he quotes in that speech but really it's sad we are sitting here with a president of the united states who out of the weird mixture of envy and deep antethy has to attack with the military standing behind him discussing life or death issues. it just shouldn't come to this. our politics should be better than this. >> clare, last word is this. >> it is really inappropriate. he is lying about it. he knows he is lying about it. the big amount of money released to iran was their money that we'd been holding. it wasn't our money.
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it didn't come out of our treasury and $1.5 billion the interest on military equipment they bought so it is just such a lie and for him to politicize a moment like this shows how insecure he is, how deeply insecure he is. >> we never have enough time for all the fact checking of this president. we'll sneak in the last break. i don't keep track of regrets.
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on car insurance. (glass shattering) (frustrated yell) (car horn blast) (yelp) my thanks to ben, jonathan, clare, eugene and a.b. and most of you for watching. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts now. ♪ ♪ and welcome to wednesday. it is "meet the press daily." good evening. i'm chuck todd in washington. iran offered president trump an exit ramp to tensions in the middle east and itpp
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