you cannot have a foreign policy without diplomacy. good morning and welcome to "am joy." donald trump was more than happy to perpetuate this idea that he was somehow the anti-war candidate in 2016. he laid on the sales job during the debates including arguing with nbc's own lester holt over his past support for the iraq war, declaring himself absolutely incredulous that anyone would suggest that he ever supported it. >> mr. trump, a lot of these were judgment questions. you supported the war in iraq before the invasion -- >> i did not support the war in iraq. that is a mainstream media nonsense put out by her because she, frankly, i think the best person in her campaign is mainstream media. >> my question is why -- >> would you like to hear? i was against the war in iraq. just so you put it out. >> the record shows otherwise. >> the record does not show otherwise. >> lester holt was right, of

course, about that. believe it or not, a lot of people brought the act including progressive third party voters and many in the media and the pundit class as perhaps best evidenced by this mind numbing "new york times." once he was in office, he flipped the dovish look surrounding himself with generals and war hawks. >> the behavior and objectives of the regime are not going to change. therefore, the only solution is to change the regime itself. >> the united states will defend its forces interests and stand with our partners and ally to safeguard global commerce and regional stability. >> here is what iran needs to get ready for. severe pain. >> one of those men, mike pompeo has reportedly being itching for a war with iran for so long that when trump appointed pompeo as secretary of state, the former am brass door to the u.n. described come bay i don't as

cowboyish and eager to start a war and said in the trump white house, quote, the hawks overcame the doves. when you're asking yourself why trump, the man who started his presidency practically begging for a nobel peace prize and for the north korean dictator to be his friend, while behaving almost like russia's sidekick, who got headlines for pulling back from bombings and hostilities, why did that guy bow to his war hung lackeys and assassinate a top iranian leader with no proof on offer of an imminent threat to america and without any congressional authorization? perhaps the answers lies buried in this "wall street journal" peace. mr. trump after the stroke told associates he was under pressure to deal with general soleimani from gop senators he views as important supporters in his coming impeachment trial in the senate, associates said. trump, of course, of course, has called that report fake news.

joining us is tony schwartz co-author of "the art of the deal" and ceo of the energy project. i say co-authors because i have to say it. you really wrote the whole book. thank you for being here. when donald trump started these hostilities really out of the blue, my first thought was john bolton being somebody that he thought he would please by doing this, john bolton is somebody who could testify against him in an impeachment trial. here is what trump said about bolton after bolton was pushed out. this is back in september of last year. >> john wasn't in line with what we were doing and actually in some cases he thought it was too tough what we were doing. mr. tough guy. you have to go into iraq. going into iraq was something he felt very strongly about. >> he said about him that his views in venezuela,forth, he cl was bolton holding him back. would it surprise you if the

reason why donald trump took this action in iran was because he knew it would please republican senators who want to go to war with iran that are going to vote on impeachment and he knew it would please people like bolton that can testify against him? >> of course it wouldn't surprise me. on the other hand the world of donald trump is about this big. so all of his references are about himself in the shortest possible time frame, meaning will this feel good to me ten seconds from now. he does not have a brighter, deeper or longer perspective available to him. so i think donald trump has gotten to the point, 13,000 lies later where he doesn't even know what he believes. >> there's a story that people are trying to unpack why he didn't. i'm not sure why it matters, but people want to know. there's a piece that talks about

congressional war hawks, mike pompeo, used to be a congressman from kansas, urged the united states and allies to strongly consider a preemptive bombing campaign in an unclassified setting. it is under 2000 sorties to destroy the iranian nuclear pact. that's what pompeo said earlier. a "new york times" piece called "seven days in january," quote, as the president watched television over the weekend he grew angry critics were accusing him of reckless escalation, recounting details. he told some associates he wanted to preserve the supportive republican hawks in the coming impeachment trial naming senator tom cotton, the famous author of the "dear iran" letter. he's supposedly bragging to dinner guests he was going to get tough on iran. he was worried about the tv

pictures of protests looking bad for him. it feels like, as you said, it was a spur of the moment -- >> exactly. the last person who spoke to trump is the most influential. we know that. the idea that he was reflecting -- the idea that he was reflecting on this is absurd. he had a moment in which he was influenced emotionally which is the only way he's influenced and he reacted. to get more complex than that is to give him credit for complexity he doesn't have. >> what he does have, he just tell you what he actually thinks by protecting what he thinks on other people. here is him talking about president obama which is the other reason people think this is why he did what he did. this is back in 2011. >> our president will start a war with iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. he's weak and he's ineffective. so the only way he figures he's

going to get re-elected, as sure as you're sitting there, is to start a war with iran. >> donald trump is ineffective, weak, can only win with foreign help and it looks like he might be starting a war with iran to win re-election. >> it's best to assess what trump means by what he says negatively about his enemies, a very reliable way to understand what he's thinking. >> i want to quickly play something for you. you've known donald trump for a long time, interviewed him when you wrote "the art of the deal." listen to donald trump. this is him at his rally, just listen to him for a second and then i want to ask you a question. >> your campaign of terror and murder, mayhem, will not be tolerated. these historic accomplishments straep our strategic priorities. >> we will make america strong again. >> the members of our armed

forces, and you understand that very well. >> despite these -- >> god bless the united states. >> so the slurring, i've noticed it. a lot of other reporters have noticed it as they post about his speeches. he seems to be slurring more and more. did he speak that way -- >> oh, my gosh, no. that is a dramatic shift. he was reasonably articulate when i knew him. he was -- first of all, he was not -- his nervous system was not so intensely aroused and activated it is right now. the more activated you become, the harder it is to speak clearly and simply. i think this is a man who is so in fight-or-flight all the time, that it's influencing him. i also think it might be -- we don't know about this -- it might be a function of his age. it might be early dementia, all of those are possible and you have to throw in a.d.d.

that he can't keep track of what's on his mind. so he gets ahead of it and loses the words. >> his father has suffered dementia. was it about at the age he did now? >> his father didn't get ghengs yeah until significantly older than trump is now, alzheimer's technically is what he had. but same net result. >> it is something i think the media doesn't talk a lot about but should. there was intense speculation about hillary clinton's health during the campaign. there was a lot of -- not enough speculation about ronald reagan's health when he was president. this is a significant thing. he slurs very, very markedly when he talks. >> let's say he didn't slur, joy. let's say he didn't slur. he's still an utterly terrifying human being. >> absolutely. >> this showdown in november, because he won't be convicted in the impeachment trial. this showdown in november is shaping up as perhaps one of the biggest events of the last --

you choose your number of decades, century. the question is what do democrats do to focus their attention only on what it takes to defeat donald trump? this is not a national election. let's be very clear about that. 42 states don't matter at all. we know what they're going to vote. there's eight states. there's 300,000 votes. the republicans have been way better than the democrats at identifying those voters. now we must identify those 300 to 500,000 people and we must go to them every day. which is why i get excited about michael bloomberg. >> excited about him in what sense, his running for president or him being around and spending money? >> money. money. i am 100% focused on who can beat trump. as we both agree, we would vote for virtually anybody who ran against trump.

but certainly for the democratic candidates currently running. so what michael bloomberg is doing, if he's taking away trump's primary power, which is the money. he has at least 50 times the net worth that donald trump does, and he has a willingness to spend it. trump won't spend anything. >> he didn't last time. he said he was going to self-fund and he didn't. the one thing i will say with bloomberg. i would say plus that up to 700,000 votes because of voter disenfranchisement. you have to assume wisconsin is a machine of disen franchising voters. you have to have more people voting -- >> absolutely. you have to factor in the russian interference that will happen. >> it will happen. >> but the michael bloomberg factor that we're seeing, and to some extent tom steyer is the astonishing power of money. when you have a lot of money, it's even more.

>> let me talk about -- i think what we're kind of all getting to is donald trump -- we were talking about this in the hair and makeup room as well, he produces a kind of anxiety in people that is so profound. it's part of the reason people are obsessively watching this show and rachel maddow and mother nature el is sort of their psychologist at this point. northwest just what he can do what he's bringing out in people. you have s.w.a.t.ing happening and nazis walking around. it is a scary time. you look at the polling on what donald trump has done, and rather than make people feel more confident, it's made people more anxious. here is the anxiety level in 2018 versus 2019. people are more anxious. do people feel safer after the strike on iran, they feel less safe. everything he does makes people feel worse. so do you think that redowns to

any particular candidate? >> let me start with the notion that energy is contagious. it's disproportionately contagious when you have more influence. so the elevated nervous system of trump, the anxiety of trump gets communicated both to his supporters and to his antagonists. so we all feel it. so let's start with that. do i think it redowns to any candidate? no. i think it hurts the candidates who arouse fear in people. to be honest, i would say that bernie sanders and elizabeth warren are -- strike up in that middle 600,000 or 300,000 people who this election will be decided by, more anxiety. the more moderate a candidate is, the less anxiety he or she tends to create. i believe the candidate that should be nominated is indeed the one who will have the best chance of winning those 600,000

votes. take somebody look bloomberg, if he should take off, bloomberg is one of the few candidates who could win florida. he's a new york jew. there are a lot of new york jews in florida. florida goes, so goes the election. if the democrats were to win florida, they'd win the election. show i think you've got to kind of hone in on who you really believe will win and put aside the differences ideologically within the democratic party. >> we'll talk about polling later that i think you're getting at one of the reasons biden is doing well. >> for sure. >> biden is a comfort candidate. a lot of people are like just get this world to feel not crazy, make the world feel calm. >> one last point. self-regulation is the single most important thing any human being can do in these times,

meaning to find ways to calm yourself is a critical element in your being able to survive in these times. >> indeed. it's why we do "who won the week" our calming mechanism at the end of the show because the show is all about bad news! thank you tony schwartz, always great 20 talk to you. meanwhile the escalating tension it is, here we go again, led iranian forces to accidentally shoot down a civilian ukrainian plane killing all 176 people aboard. now what's happening is iranians are taking to the streets in protest of the government's actions and its delay in admitting it shot that plane down. we're going to have more on this developing story throughout the show. up next, america's fore most anti-war member of congress weighs in. ♪ limu emu & doug hour 36 in the stakeout. as soon as the homeowners arrive,

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september 11th changed the world. our deepest fears now haunt us, yet i am convinced that military action will not prevent further acts of international terrorism against the united states. >> congressman barbara lee stood alone in 2001 when she was opposed -- when she opposed the authorization for use of military force against al qaeda just stlee dthree days after th

attacks. 18 1/2 years later she's still making that case. >> we've known for years there's no military solution in the middle east. it's time to return to a diplomatic strategy with our allies. we need to repeal the 2002 authorization and we need to force the congress to come back and debate the costs and consequences of the use of force if, in fact, we're going to continue down this track of military actions against iran. >> joining me now is congresswoman barbara lee from california. it's always a pleasure to talk with you. >> great to be with you. thank you for keeping it real. >> that's what we try to do. i want to start with letting you respond to donald trump and all his many tweets -- we try not to read too many of them on this show. but this was particularly alarming. he tweets these media posts will serve as notification to the united states congress that should iran strike any u.s. person or target, the united

states will quickly and fully strike back and perhaps in disproportionate manner. such legal notice is not required but given never the less the idea he thinks it's his authorization to use force in iran is terrifying. your thoughts, congresswoman? >> so this president really i don't think understands the constitution or he just wants to sidestep it as we have seen. the congress is responsible, has a duty to authorize the use of force or not. this is a democracy, joy. remember, it's not a dictate are ship. when this president or any president decides to send our troops into harm's way to conduct military action, he's required by the constitution to come to congress so we can debate the costs and consequences of that. donald trump doesn't understand that or he really doesn't care.

>> there was a vote last week on a war powers resolution. four republicans voted for it. matt gaetz voted for it, thomas massie, congressman francis. so a few republicans even supported it. your colleague, congress ro khanna has talked about the fact that if donald trump were to defy congress and try to start hostilities in iran it could be an impeachment article. your thoughts on that? >> well, sure, because he's, once again, would violate the constitution. let me tell you, we have several bills that we're putting forward, joy, to make sure we further rni. in this president. i've been trying to repeal the 2001 and 2002 authorization. this is 20 years later. so we need to repeal those authorizations and then debate whether or not congress will

authorize the use of force wherever donald trump or any president decides they want to conduct military action. congressman cana has legislation that i'm working with him on in terms of co-sponsorship and the progressive caucus and others to say we will not give the administration any funding for the use of force unless they come to congress and debate the costs and consequences of going to war with iran. we've got to understand this is a very critical moment in our history. we're less safe than we were before this president conducted these military strikes. he has abused his power and he has really shown us that he thinks he is above the law. >> this is one of those rare cases where there is at least some -- i think there is an overobsession with bipartisanship among the media class, but this is one of those cases where the bipartisanship matters. not only did you have three

republicans vote for -- in favor of the war powers resolution in the house, on the senate side you have a couple of tea party style republicans who agree with you on the idea of war powers. here is rand paul. he was on "hardball" this week on the idea of congress versus the president on war. take a listen. >> i do believe that congress should be the ones making the decisions on whether or not we declare war. i think killing a major general from another country is an act of war. so i think there is a possibility, if congress were to come together, republican and democrat and say this is a power too ominous for one person to have. >> you have senator mike lee who has been utterly silent on trump most of the time, but coming up and signing on to bernie sanders' bill to freeze military action. can you see a world in which both houses of congress actually

pass resolutions that finally start to reclaim the war declaring power for congress? >> i certainly can, joy. the use of force, going to war, putting our brave troops in harm's way is not a partisan issue. over the years i have worked with many republicans just to get to this point where we could get bipartisan votes on these issues. so it's about time that the members of the senate, republicans in the house and the senate come together to make sure that we express the will of the american people. the people are tired of going to war. they're war weary, and they understand that our national security requires us to have a strong military. we have that, but it does not require the president to use force as the first course of action. we need to get back to understanding what diplomacy means. unfortunately secretary pompeo as secretary of state has not

assumed his role as the chief diplomat, but rather he seems like he's acting as the defense secretary. so diplomacy is a strategy we have to embrace and get back into the nuclear agreement which this country, the united states pulled out of. this should be a bipartisan issue. the constitution requires members of congress to do their job. >> this president in particular is a problematic one to have in his own mind the freedom to declare hostilities and send transportation because of his own attitude toward the military, to be blunt. here is donald trump who has not only been abusive, verbally abusive towards members of the military including gold star families but talks about the military as if they're a mercenary force that he can lone out to other countries for money. here is a shocking piece of his fox news interview with laura ingram about the way he thinks about our troops. take a listen.

>> we're sending more to saudi arabia is paying for it. i said, listen, you're a very rich country. you want more troops. i'm going to send them to you. you've got to pay us. they've already deposited $1 billion in the bank. we are going to help them but these rich countries have to pay for it. >> congresswoman, california sends more people into the military than any state. i'm not sure by capita, but raw numbers. as a congresswoman with a vested interest, can you tell us as a members of congress what bank account did donald trump allegedly deposit a billion dollars from saudi arabia? what bank account would that be? do you know? >> maybe it's his own bank account. quite frankly, his comments are very disgusting. as the daughter of a veteran who served in two wars, i find his lack of respect and his lack of

caring for our troops in a real way, they make many sacrifices for this country. they do exactly what we ask them to do, and here now he is trying to position his position as selling our soldiers as mercenaries to foreign governments. it's outrageous and i hope the public really understands that this man should be tried and convicted, and he does not demand to be the command commander-in-chief of this united states of america. >> could there potentially be congressional -- a congressional investigation and hearings on whether or not donald trump has taken money, whether as president in his capacity as president or in some other way from saudi arabia in exchange for sending troops there, when he's saying things like we've taken the oil from sovereign foreign countries?

can there be hearings on that? >> joy, i think we should have hearings on that because thisment is using his position for personal gain. we see this over and over and over again. so i would encourage our oversight committees and i'm certainly going to do that when we get back to washington, d.c., to conduct hearings and to really drill down on what in the world is going on. because we know he has violated the emoluments clause over and over again. we know he's using his office as commander-in-chief, as the president of the united states for personal gain. the public understands this, and november is coming. we have to stay organized and make sure that we vote and make sure that this man is not the next president of the united states of america because he does pose a threat to our national security and a threat to our democracy. >> is what you're saying that you're concerned as a members of congress that a foreign government, vapor some other government is paying donald trump or has paid him, put money

in his pocket? >> absolutely. look what they're doing in terms of staying at his properties, hotels. look at the type of business arrangements this president has with foreign governments. so now when he's talking about charging saudi arabia for our troops and their presence, we have to really see this in tow at that time in terms of how he has used his office for personal gain. this is just another example of that, and i hope the congress investigates it thoroughly. >> congresswoman barbara lee, thank you so much. thank you for standing so strong on the powers of congress versus the executive when it comes to matters of war and peace so consistently. >> thank you, joy. coming up next, the air comes out of a trump call-in response favorite. when you shop with wayfair,

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as president donald trump vowed to investigate his opponent hillary clinton in true banana republic style. we learned this week that nothing has come from those investigations. per "the washington post" an effort launch in 2017 by then attorney general jefferson sessions turned up, quote, nothing worth pursuing. the investigators had been tasked with looking into the clinton foundation and the debunked uranium one conspiracy theory. meanwhile, michael flynn is getting closer to the jailhouse doors. with federal prosecutors recommending he serve up to six months in prison. but oh, yeah, general flynn, lock her up. uh-huh. after the break, a brand new poll shows black democrats -- shows who black democrats are supporting in 2020. stay with us. ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win.

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actions speak louder than words. she was a school teacher. my dad joined the navy and helped prosecute the nazis in nuremberg. their values are why i walked away from my business, took the giving pledge to give my money to good causes, and why i spent the last ten years fighting corporate insiders who put profits over people. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. because, right now, america needs more than words. we need action.

black voters are key for any candidate hoping to win the democratic presidential nomination. full stop. in recognition of that, "the washington post" partnered with into soes. here is what they found. no surprise. at this point former vice president joe biden is by far the top choice of black voters with nearly 50%. his closest competitor, senator bernie sanders is nearly 30 points behind followed by elizabeth warren, michael bloomberg and cory booker, all in single digits. meanwhile, two other candidates who have been rising in other

polls, pete buttigieg and choep amy klobuchar are unknown. joining me is chief political correspondent from "the washington post" dan ball making his "am joy" debut. biden being in the lead is not new information to most people looking at his polling most of the time. but one of the interesting things is why people like him, right? what you guys found, did you find that what people liked about -- what african-american voters like about biden is his connection to president obama or something else? >> well, it's a combination of both, frankly. certainly the fact he served as vice president to former president obama is an important attribute that he carries when he speaks in black communities and seeks to get the votes of black voters, but there are other things. he has a personal relationship of his own, a long record in the

senate promoting ideas and championing certain things that have been important to the black community. obviously there's some things he's done that are controversial within the black community. but overall, i think he's well known, well liked. people think he's a decent person. he has a personality that registers well, not just with black americans but with white, too. it's in the context of this election, his support in the black community is aspirational to him being the nominee. >> one of the things interesting about joe biden, the things that are liabilities for other people, the crime bill which for some reason hillary clinton, it became a liability, she was married to the guy who signed the crime bill. bernie sanders voted for it. biden doesn't seem to be taking a hit because of that, over the anita hill situation or some of his past ideas on things like busing or his past sort of

joefality with segregationists. he doesn't seem to be taking a hit. is there anything in the data that explains why? is it just familiarity? >> i think it's familiarity. because he's been in the public eye for so long and despite the problems he had -- those were aired out at the beginning of when he became a candidate. we remember the debate when kamala harris went after him over his stand on forced school busing back in the '70s. those things seemed to be a for him early on but haven't had any impact on his support within the black community. so there's a deeper connection that he has that people are able to evaluate his record in its totality rather than isolating single episodes or single votes or single controversies, and black voters have stayed with him through this entire campaign. as you said, one o of the values of this poll by having a full

sample of african-american voters is we're able to look in a more textured way, more con teethal way about that support. it reenforces what we thought. but we have much more data to be able to back it up. >> let's go through some of this data. black democratic voters, what they care most about when picking a candidate. positions agree closest to yours, 33%. who seems most likely to beat donald trump, 57%. the black voters care about one thing, winning. >> well, they're not the only voters in the democratic party who care about that. we've seen that being consistent throughout. but when you go one step beyond that, okay, for those people who say the most important thing is to defeat donald trump, who is the candidate they think can do that, a majority of black voters say that's joe biden. so it's kind of a double advantage he has on that front. >> absolutely. here is another piece of the data from the poll, how

important is it to have a black vice president among -- having a black vp pick. net important is 27%, very important 9%, net non-not important 72%. that's surprising when it comes to making a vice presidential pick that's black. >> you can read it in a variety of ways and read it whatever way president y you want. the fact you have more than a third who basically say in one way or another i think that would be important, you can read that as something that puts pressure on joe biden or whoever is the nominee, if it's a white nominee, they're going to be under pressure to certainly consider and maybe select a person of color as their running mate. but i think that on a question like that, the default answer for most people is, well, it doesn't make that much difference.

we've seen that in different kinds of questions in different polls unrelated to this. but i think what you see in that is there will be pressure on the nominee to give very serious consideration to a person of color. >> if a third of any group of people is saying do something, yeah, it's a strong incentive to do it. thank you very much for doing this. it's really important to have these large samples of black voters. not enough people do it. i appreciate you guys doing that. thank you, dan, for being here today. >> thanks for having me on, joy. coming up later, we'll have more on this poll with the great michael mayor yet wharriet who numbers on pete buttigieg that's making waves on twitter. keep it right here. 's making waves on twitter. keep it right here i am totally blind. and non-24 can make me show up too early... or too late.

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mayor, my question is straightforward. what are on the secret tapes regarding the demotion of south bend's black police chief? >> the answer is, i don't know. the reason i don't know is these tape-recordings were made in a way that may have violated the federal wiretap act. that's a federal law when and when you can't record these people. the police chief was using these recordings to figure out what was going on with internal rivalries with other police officers. and allegedly broke the federal wiretap act when he did that. >> new reporting from the root this week brought the controversy surrounding those secret tapes and these subsequent demotion of south bend's first black police chief

back into the spotlight for 2020 presidential candidate and former south bend mayor pete buttigieg. the tapings were made without the officers but got back to the chief with senior white police officers who used racist language, including about the chief. the root dives into that case and details extensive charges of racism within the south bend police department made by black officers who say their concerns were never adequately addressed by mayor buttigieg. we reached out to the buttigieg campaign and invited the mayor to come on the show to discuss this story. he's still welcome to come on, but the campaign declined citing his schedule. i want to also add they did offer us a surrogate but we wanted to speak with the mayor himself because no surrogate knows what happened in south bend the way the mayor would. the campaign did send us a statement which reads, in part, pete has been clear and outspoken. racism in any police department, including his city's, must never

be tolerated. he's taken actions like requiring all police officers to take civil rights, implicit bias, diversity trainings and appointing a majority/minority board of public safety to provide civilian oversight to ensure it's never tolerated in south bend. that's part of the statement. joining me is the author, michael harriot, a senior writer at "the root." thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me. >> yourself and jonathan larson of the young turks were in -- my understanding is, you all received emails from black officers. that's what started this reporting, is that accurate? >> yes. a few officers emailed us and sent us letters that they have sent to pete buttigieg's office when he was mayor. and they were stamped by the mayor's office. it appears they were received by pete buttigieg. and every officer and we spoke

to could not recall one ins debt of pete buttigieg addressing racism in the police department. it was not just the tapes. i think that's important to know. it was one of the biggest things was no officers, no black officers, were ever promoted within the police department. that was one of the big issues. and white officers were disciplined less harshly than black officers. so, there were a bunch of complaints that they said they talked to buttigieg about or they tried to, but he would never address the issue. >> let's go -- i want to walk through these case by case. the tapes is the thing that has gotten the most ink because it is sort of confounding, you know, the mayor has said there's a lawsuit that says he can't even find out what's on the tapes but we as the public have found out what's on them because one of the people who was fired was a city official who actually found out was on the tapes and told them and she got fired.

it's a long story. i want to play you, since we don't have him here, play you what he said in response to why he demoted the city's first black police chief, chief boykins. here it is. >> the reason i demoted the chief is i found out that he was the subject of a criminal investigation, not from him but from the fbi. and it made it very hard for me to trust him as one of my own appointees. >> when i read your story, it wasn't clear to me, what was the result of that investigation or was he under indictment? is that the case for this chief? >> the u.s. attorney's office told us that at no point was boykins, the chief, the target or subject of a criminal investigation. they also said in it in depositions. they specifically told the woman who handed over these tapes that she would never be arrested or never be indicted, she was never in danger of being arrested or indicted.

and she told pete buttigieg's chief of staff, and so he continues to perpetuate that myth or that lie that there was someone who was going to be arrested and he didn't want to be involved in that. the fact the reason the chief rescinded his resignation is that he found out that he wasn't under criminal investigation. >> so it's not clear that -- he did not seem to be on the brink of being indicted, is what you're saying because he was originally fired and then he -- he fought being fired and then was brought back on but demoted, is that correct. >> right, right, exactly. and he never -- and the u.s. attorney's office says they were investigating the recordings of the tapes but they concluded that they were recorded by mistake, but there were never in any danger of criminal charges being brought. >> do you believe -- are you convinced that mayor buttigieg when he was mayor or even now, cannot find out what was on

those tapes? >> so, there's two separate issues, right? he -- i do believe, and most people i talk to believed that he never heard the tapes. and that he can't hear the tapes. but that is a separate thing from knowing what's on the tapes, right? it's important to point out that the officers and the person who recorded these tapes didn't sue the city of south bend. they sued pete buttigieg, right? so, his lawyers took a deposition where she outlined what was on the tapes, right? his chief of staff said that he told -- in a deposition that he told pete buttigieg that there was derogatory language on the tapes, so he -- i believe that he never heard the tapes, but it's impossible to believe that everyone in his circle knows the broad specifics of what was on the tapes except pete buttigieg. >> and what was on those tapes

as far as what the city official who heard them, it was these officers disparaging pete buttigieg, disparaging the mayor and saying something to the effect of -- well, tell us what your understanding of what was on the tapes. >> well, what they said was on the tapes was they were going to get rid of the black police chief and pete's donors were going to help them do it. now, pete's donors deny these allegations. but this is what the police officers, the white police officers, senior white police officers, were saying. they were using derogatory language. basically they were imitating the police chief using ebonics to describe how he talked. >> right. and -- okay. there were lawsuits by multiple people. this is from my team here. i'm going to read a little bit from your piece. it says buttigieg eventually settled boykins' discrimination

suit against him. schmuhl, the city attorney and the city for $50,000. the city paid ms. depaepe, $235,000. the officers allegededly captured on the tapes filed a claim. the city settled with the city for $500,000 and agreed they were not aware of evidence of any illegal activity by the plaintiffs or any evidence that the plaintiffs use any racial word against darrell boykins. the officers are saying we can't wait to get rid of the black police chief, they got $500,000. the chief got $50,000. who is ms. depaepe? >> she was the director of communications for south bend. she was the one who originally discovered the recordings when she was asked to review backups

of the recordings to make sure -- after the system had crashed, to make sure that no data had been lost. and she heard the racist language and basically, oh, this is bad. i better give this to the chief. that's how the entire thing precipitated. >> one more question to you before i bring in the rest of the panel. i'm glad you're here and openfully you can stay on with the panel as well. the second part -- i read the second half of the statement that the campaign sent to us. the first half of the statement talked about the chief who took over after, the chief who came in after chief boykins whose name was teachman. the second part of the statement reads, after chief teachman was hired, the buttigieg administration worked with the police department to update the duty manual which made it easier to hold officers accountable when they used excessive force or violated citizens' rights. use of force incidents have dropped. the reason i didn't include it the first time is people don't understand what they mean. when i talk back and forth with

the campaign, what they were saying is of the officers who wrote this letter, i think ten officers wrote a letter, describing in their minds the mayor's negligence when it came to dealing with racism and the police department, they were saying that the -- that your reporting left out the fact that at least one of those officers had use of force complaints and that that was not included in your reporting and that the implication here is that these officers had discipline issues and the reason they weren't promoted is because of that, not because of race. your thoughts on that? >> well, there is no doubt that one of the officers had discipline issues. he was indicted and he was prosecuted for civil rights violations. not the other ten officers. and the conflation of that is problematic for the buttigieg campaign. most of these officers had no discipline issues. in fact, as we note in the coverage of pete buttigieg's handling of issues of race in

south bend, one of the officers, one of the white officers has had as many or more complaints of police brutality and was never disciplined until after pete buttigieg declared his candidacy. which is exactly what the officers were complaining about. like, if they had -- the black officers had a complaint against them, they were suspended or fired and these white officers were constantly promoted. and this guy, teachman, who was the permanent chief that buttigieg hired, he was specifically accused of an incident where he refused to back up a black officer at a black community center. and -- which was the genesis of many of these complaints, right? and the important part about that is that pete buttigieg himself, he stepped in when the

board of public safety wanted to discipline him. buttigieg himself stepped in and refused to discipline that officer after the state of indiana did an investigation and said that that chief was at fault. >> wow. so, this is -- really important. stay with us here. i want to bring into this conversation the rest of my panel. political strategist l. joy williams, and dean obeidallah and maria-teresa kumar of voter latino. i want to play for the panel pete buttigieg, i want to make sure his voice is heard in this segment. here he is talking about derek dere -- basically his understanding of race and policing in his city at the time he was mayor. this is during that cnn debate. take a listen. >> i was, frankly, a little bit slow to understand how much anguish underlay the community's

response to this. for people in the community it wasn't just about whether we were right or wrong to be concerned about the federal wiretap act. it was whether communities of color could trust that police departments had their best interest at heart. >> i want to go to l. joy on this first because, you know, pete buttigieg is quite eloquent and he gets a lot of credit to that but he tends to default to a slow to realize towards issues of race. you as someone who has worked closely with campaigns and obviously with the naacp, does that ring -- is that helpful to him to say that? >> no, not at all. it's not helpful in the way that he responds as well because he also doesn't -- while he may take responsibility by saying the words, i was slow to respond, but he also doesn't go forward that we're looking for as an executive, elected official to say specifically what he could have done and what he's going to do different. and this is one linchpin issue that one of his negatives in

this campaign cycle, besides folks not knowing much about him, particularly black voters, there's also the instance that he is not yet ready to lead as president of a large bureaucracy like the united states of the america. he admits he was slow to respond and he doesn't take action and but the actions he does take aren't any recognition of the bias and the harm in a community. that speaks to your leadership skill and your ability to actually do anything about this. >> i was digging in here because "the root" did -- if you don't read "the root" power black rankings are really good every week. they give you a sense of how black voters are thinking and how they're ranking candidates. i want to go back to michael. one thing -- you don't write the power rankings. this is not what you're writing. but when "the root" interviewed

seniors, older folks, older black folks this week about pete buttigieg, what do black -- this is what the power rankings found, what do black voters attend to associate pete buttigieg with? police brutality. only one committee person part of this focus group mentioned pete's sexuality as a problem but not black voters, but for white ones. every choir director has a gay choir director, we're good. the fact the thing people associate him with is police brutali brutality. once be they know you, they know you. that's what shields biden. even if you say something bad about him, he's a known quantity. is his biggest challenge this policing issue? >> yes. i think it's on both sides. this policing issue is not just among the officers, right, but

we spoke to people in the community, you know, south bend's black lives matter chapter and regular people in the community who repeatedly said to us that pete buttigieg ignored issues of race. even a city official told me, and these are his exact words, was that south bend is like apartheid south africa. one of the officers we spoke to, the only quote -- he wanted to talk off the record but the only quote that he would allow us to give on the record was to say that pete buttigieg's office of diversity was a failure. so, these issues surround him. and i think black voters know and it concerns them because when you get in those rooms filled with white men who have power, they're worried he will do these kind of things because it works, right?

ignoring racism works. he's one of the front-runners for the presidency of the united states. and it's partially -- it's, in part, because he ignored these issues and didn't confront them. >> this was a confrontation that mayor buttigieg had with protesters after a fatal police shooti shooting, this was during the campaign. this was last june. take a look at this. >> can you say to us today in front of all these cameras that black lives matter? >> did you just ask me if black lives matter. >> yes. we want to hear you say it. >> of course, black lives matter. >> then fire your -- >> you want black people to vote for you? that's not going to happen. >> i'm not asking for your vote. >> you're not going to get it either. >> dean, mayor buttigieg is not the first white candidate who's had a challenge dealing with communities of color and trying to communicate with them, but his city, he's the leader of a city that's 29% black. you know that when it comes to policing issues, the muslim

community in new york has had this issue. there are lots of muslim citizens in new york but confronting police has been challenging because of a sense these officers don't understand us, don't have empathy for us, treat us as suspects. it's very similar, this sort of at tut -- attitude problem. anybody in new york would have that same problem. >> like michael bloomberg. that clip you just played has been brought up by so many black listeners to my show over and over and over again. there's -- the vote blue no matter who is our mantra for -- people call my time all the time, i'm on a progressive channel but there's hostility to two candidates. mike bloomberg, i have some of that hos talty, and the other is by pete buttigieg. not just black. some lgbtq think he's opt

opportunistic. he was brought up in the shooting of eric logan and said, i don't want your vote. he may have met it a different way but black took it as, you don't want our vote. this comes up on my show, the number of contracts he's awarded as mayor is now 2% to 3% to minority businesses. meanwhile he's talking about a plan if elected president, he's want done that. words mean nothing when you have a record. people are looking at the record going, you have to be kidding. i can't believe he has 2% in the black community. he should be coming on your show, frankly, other shows -- >> we've asked. >> right. to make the case -- i've asked black callers to my show, can he do anything? they said not now in the midst of this campaign. after this campaign, maybe over time he can and runs again but now, no. >> he's 37. he could run for 50 more years. this is -- you know, you are in

the field that is -- part of what you're doing is trying to attract voters to participate. do issues like this become fatal for a candidate if it's this early in their rise? >> i think he missed an opportunity not to come on your show. to have a conversation, hear it directly from him and his opinions. i think this idea to bring in a surrogate is a false air, right? he is among, as we mentioned earlier, one of the most articulate candidates on stage. he would be able to speak to you very clearly and plainly and let your viewers decide, have that analysis. but he took that away. and i will share with you, joy, right now when we are talking about black lives matter, when we're talking about these issues that are very critical to a growing piece of an an electorate that normally sits it out, you want to be on record, know how you'll be much more inclusive in this country, bringing people along. the fact older voters are turning off, imagine younger

voters. who have grown under a generation of the impact of mass incarceration in the african-american community, of being racially profiled. they're a generation that wants to see themselves in any candidate that speaks to their experience and that's not happening right now. >> you know, the thing that's interesting is mayor pete buttigieg was mayor during the black lives matter era. he is of an age -- he was in the military. my brother was in the military. the military is one of the most integrate the institutions in the country. it's hard not -- it's surprising he doesn't have more experience or more personal experience. >> it's surprising to me given the thought process, as you mentioned, that some people think he's opportunistic in terms of his career. i don't think that personally but people think that. even the people around him would understand that he needs to address this head-on, particularly given the generation he belongs to, particularly given the moment that we're in politically, particularly you being part of a

presidential democratic primary where a large percentage of that vote that you need to win, actually the vote you need to win in a presidential primary is of black voters. it seems not only himself but the team around him is also missing the moment in terms of how we can tackle this head-on. imagine if a pete buttigieg either for today's show or further said, i'm going to address this head-on. i'm going on joy ann reid, i'm going to black radio drive time all across the country and really talk critically given my past experience, given the issues i've dealt with previously, how we can do a path forward on equity and inclusion in police departments, how we can do a path forward on his, you know, douglas plan, which no one knows what it is. >> it's named after frederick douglass. this is free advice, but naming things after frederick douglass

is not telling people anything. >> i think they're missing an opportunity. this is just free advice as well, as you mentioned, he's young. he's going to run for something else. he's going to -- >> he ran for dnc -- i'm sorry, he ran for dnc. >> president of that. >> yeah. >> and other activists i've had on that are african-american said to me, i don't think mayor pete has many plaque friends. that was the sense. no allegations he's a racist. racially insensitive or blind spot. i'll tell you, he had the shooting of eric logan during the campaign in the summer where you had a black man killed by white police. and the media covered this. he called the media first, mayor pete, before he called the logan family. that became a big issue. that says so much. you're going to the media, making your statement, not calling the logan family. many people in the black community confronted him on that. in real time, not years ago, not ten years ago, during the middle of the campaign. he did not show --

>> we did the poll earlier on biden. i can tell you having gone to the nabj conventions when he would go, he pointed out eight people in the room he knew. what's been the response to the buttigieg campaign from your reporting? >> well, they have pushed back and asked us to provide context. like, he appointed african-americans to the board of public safety, which kind of controls the police department. you know, but one of the reasons is one of the people who were on the board of public safety quit in protest of him refusing to discipline his white police chief. that guy was a police -- a pete buttigieg supporter, who is white. and he quit because buttigieg refused to discipline this white police chief. which is another say -- we're saying he has a problem with african-americans but white voters see it too, right.

that guy cold me that. and an hr person in a neighboring county, who is white, told me, oh, they just pick out police officers from south bend because they know if they talk to them, they'll want to leave because they know about the racism in the police department. so, white people in south bend know about this ignoring of racial problems, too. it's not just the black community. >> well, it's stellar reporting. i hope everyone reads it because it's important to have context for all these campaigns. it's great to have you op michael harriot, dean obeidallah. up next, we'll take a closer look at today's protests in iran and the human cost of war. excuse me a minute...

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. crowds of angry protesters have taken to the streets in iran, chanting rallying cries like "resign" a iranian leadership. this comes after the iranian government admitted that it accidentally shot down a civilian flight out of tehran this week killing all 176 people on board. many protesters are angry their own government denied

responsibility for the tragedy for three days. and joining me now is a panel i've been waiting for all day. azma tch azmat, and rula jebreal and zainab salbi. i've seen you on our shows talking about this issue and immediately knew that you were the three people i wanted to talk to about this issue. it's so complex. i'm going to start with you first, welcome to the show, azmat. what's happening in iran is complicated because you had protests before all -- donald trump stepped in and decided to kill a senior iranian leader about the government and now you saw during the funeral four the person we assassinated -- >> soleimani. >> soleimani. that seemed to be protests

against america. now these protests are different today. >> right. last night we saw this bringing up of many people who are here essentially to make demands about their government, the iranian government, and this plane that was hit with an iranian rocket. you see there is incredible disappointment with their own government and what had happened, a security lapse in which flights are still taking off from their airports are still happening during a volatile time. then you have these protests are saying down with ayatollah khamenei. many are saying this is showing us a new picture, a new image. i don't think this is necessarily the case. there's a tendency in the united states to frame these protests, they feel this way or that way. it would be akin to people in iran sitting here talking about the united states and saying, well, what do all americans

think in a deeply polarized society, which iran is. these protesters and these people who are making demands, they are speaking to a source of different kinds of demands. they're looking at economic problems, many of which are exacerbated by sanctions. they're talking about gas prices. they're talking about many different problems they have had with their government and with international interference. and we really need to look at that in that wide spectrum. >> thank you for saying that. i'm going to jump around the table. if you think about the context for what's happening in iran, i think about when i saw this plane went down and it became clear it was shot down by accident and it was iran -- iran's own fault. 1988, the united states military shot a plane out of the sky. it was also an accident. they somehow mistook it for a fighter jet and shot it down. this tragedy being revisited is a repeated tragedy.

that was in the context of the iran/iraq war where the united states took sides with the guy we later got rid of saddam hussein. >> indeed. what you're pointing at is sort of the elephant in the room is how america is seen in the region. let's talk about it. america is not innocent in destabilizing the region. it's very much a part of the region. not only the plane but in iran particularly they see america as helping overthrow a democratically elected government back in 1952, which is still carried on in people's memory and emotions towards america. they then also look at america as backing iraq against iran. >> and sending chemical weapons their way to use. >> i was in iraq actually during that time. we would see on tv bodies, mass bodies of iranian soldiers burnt from chemical weapons. this is so real. so there's a lot of resentment here. but that resentment is not only

in iran also. people are confused about america's role in the middle east. and they want it. i have to talk about iraq and the rest of the middle east, the arab middle east. they want it to be an objective role. they want it to be a constructive role. they really do. but it hasn't been. they see it as bias towards israel. they see it as only engaging with them in military forms and not in economic forms to help them stabilize their countries. iraqis do, until this day, they say, please, help us rebuild ourselves. there are demonstrations not only in iran. there are demonstrations in iraq in the last three months. they're asking for one country beyond sectarian and religious divides. they're asking for new government. their demonstrations has forced the current prime minister to resign two months ago. we need to cover these voices. and they are saying, engage with us because we want employment, we want anti-corruption. these are emerging voices out of

the middle east that have complex relationship with america. we need to engage with them. we need to understand them. i think we need to support them, not a tweet in farsi that the president has done. that was not a good call. but support them. they need support and they need to be heard. >> not just israel, which is an issue that's been standing out for a long time in terms of the u.s.'s bias, not just bipartisan, whether democrat or republican, but with saudi arab arabia, there's this thing happening, too, who despises iran as much as the united states, saudis, and it seems a lot of what we're doing is playing into the hands of what the saudi crown family wants. >> joy, first of all, i want to say thank you to msnbc. i've been critical of this network. however, today i must say kudos to you because they are the only network, the only network that invited voices from the region. people who understand what the

people in the region wants, their aspiration, their struggle for dignity and a better life. all the other networks, and it pains me to say that and watch this. they've been a bunch of men who work for basically the defense industry or support the iraq war who led to 1 million iraqi who died in that war. destabilization of the entire middle east. saying that, i'll answer your question about saudi arabia. so, when the united states approached the middle east with authoritarian, we are fine with these dictators if they stand with the united states and basically chop up a journalist in the embassy, that approach is if you basically support human rights violators or criticize human rights violators only when the enemy commits them, you don't care about human rights.

we saw what happened with jamal khashoggi. i'm sorry to mention that case but it shows us exactly where this administration stands. they stand with whoever supports the agenda of the president. which is an agenda driven today by the saudis, by the emirates and israel. before the soleimani attack, he called these three actors, send a signal to the region that basically, yes, we support the iranians but we'll ban them from traveling to the united states. we support the iranians but we impose sanctions on them. you don't support iran. the iranian people is not the regime. the regime is something different. people have been protesting in iraq. 400 people died in iraq last month. nothing was shown on american television. 1,500 people died in iran in november. 1,500. nothing was shown. people are protesting in lebanon and across the region because

they're sick and tired of two things, these regimes and america's dysfunctional policy in the middle east. >> there's soon to be another muslim ban, or expansion of it. it's questionable if it will affect saudi arabia and the hijackers and jamal khashoggi -- >> i doubt it would affect saudi arabia. i would be doubtful. we're in a complex reality in the middle east. maybe at a tipping point. if it tips over, it may tip over the secular reformist youth employment. but we don't know. so, how we handle this right now, how do we engage not in a military way, please, but in a diplomatic and economic way and not through sanctions but economic incentives. it's pivotal. we have to watch it very closely because it either will go to the corrupt regimes not only of iran but iraq, to be honest, or go to

the youth who are demanding for new ways. it's important we engage in a constructive way. >> the question very quickly, in the region do people believe this administration can accomplish that or is there a sense in the region of just waiting it out in hopes there's a different regime here in 2021? >> i think people want the agency to have that ins lens or not a foreign power outside of their country, whether it's their government or another government make the decision for them. >> they have faith in the american people. 60% of iranian are under 30. they want you to speak with them, engage with them. >> they don't want complete disappearance of america because it would create a vacuum that russia and iran will jump in. they don't want completely out of the region. they do want -- >> but constructive. >> constructive engagement. >> and talk to the taliban, you can talk to the iranians.

>> i need a full hour with you ladies. can you guys come back? will you promise to please come back. >> we love you. >> thank you. coming up, nancy pelosi makes a rare live appearance on a sunday show and also makes the news. stay with us. the news stay with us any comments doug? yeah. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas. only pay for what you need... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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this is a president who has said, article 2 says, i can do whatever i want. it does not. >> do you think it's possible that the house might have to file new articles of impeachment? >> well, let's just see what the senate does. the ball will be in their court soon. >> house speaker nancy pelosi is not ruling out even more articles of impeachment against a president she says cannot stop violating the constitution. joining me now is msnbc anchor, rosa brooks and maria-teresa kumar. this is whether or not this was evidence to back up this claim that donald trump was in freelance fashion made that there were threats to four u.s. embassy that prompted him to kill a senior iranian leader. >> he didn't cite a specific of evidence. he said he probably, he believed -- >> are you saying there wasn't

one? >> i didn't see one with regard to four embassies. what i'm saying is i share the president's view that probably, my expectation is they were going after our embassies. >> so, probably going to go after our embassies is not -- is not evidence of imminent threat, which is what's required for a president to take this kind of action without congress. >> i think herein lies the major issue. there was the expectation, as you heard from mark esper there, but not the clear and imminent threat. that is the overwhelming issue we have heard throughout this entire thing. no one is disputing the fact that general soleimani was involved in nefarious activities throughout the region. he was commanding proxy divisions to take american lives. the question is why, why not? and it seems this administration has not presented the evidence to suggest that there was a reason, a clear and imminent threat now and why it could feasibly be worth it. even in this most recent war powers act. they say here, to terminate the use of united states forces to engage in hostilities in or against iran or any part of its

government or military unless congress declares war or there is an imminent armed attack upon the united states. this is -- this is the newest war powers act that was just passed in the house. it still doesn't necessarily alleviate the issue we now face. >> and there -- to be clear for the people watching, the aumf that authorized the iraq war does not authorize a war against iran. it's not open-ended to any country donald trump wants to add to it. let me listen to you robert o'brien who is defending what trump has been claiming and saying he saw the intelligence. take a listen. >> we were very concerned about the situation. we had exquisite intelligence. the intelligence show they were looking at u.s. facilities throughout the region and they wanted to inflict casualties on american soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines as well as diplomats. the threat was imminent. i saw the intelligence. there's been a lot of discussion on the intelligence. know would like to see it. i would love to have the intelligence out there now.

unfortunately, if we declassified it, we could lose that stream of intelligence that will allow us to protect americans going forward. >> rosa, it strikes me as quite dangerous if a president can just say, we have intelligence we can't show you that we know that it was there and this allowed me to assassinate a foreign leader. >> uh-huh. oh, it's extremely dangerous. it creates a situation where essentially there's no accountability. you can't have the normal democratic checks and balances on the use of force. the one thing i will say here, and i'm going to make all my colleagues from the obama administration mad when i say this, the obama administration in many ways was just as bad when it came to the legal justifications for the use of force. made very, very similar arguments about, you have to give the president and commander in chief discretion. we're the only ones who get to decide what imminent means. we're the only ones who get to see the evidence. frankly, we've seen those arguments from presidents going back to george w. bush and it has created incredibly dangerous

precedent. the obama administration when pushed on, boy, you're really asserting an open-ended power, couldn't that be abused, the response was essentially, don't worry, we're not going to abuse them. i believed them then and now but they forgot the next guy coming along could be donald trump. you hand it over to donald trump and you could get some bad things coming along. >> i'm going to hand it over to maria-teresa kumar, who's a lawyer -- >> i'm not a lawyer. >> oh, you're not. >> i did work on the hill and i have insight on staffers. >> the question i was going to say, what i was going to throw to you is i don't think so much of the obama administration -- let's say obama administration and osama bin laden. osama bin laden declared war against the united states. the amuf 100% covered him and

people in al qaeda. the idea of using that kind of we have imminent threat we can't tell you about and then going after a member of a foreign government is very different from going after osama bin laden, who is a stateless leader of a terrorist organization. maria-teresa kumar, you can disagree. >> that's exactly right. we could take mike lee's words for it. he saw the intelligence report leading up to it and he said this is baloney. the president when you start hearing the rumblings of ukraine, he tried to change the script. he tried to get the media's attention by saying, you know what, we're no longer going to be actively involved with the kurds. we're going to pull out of our support for the kurds. and the media cycle moved with him. in the absence right now of another jufctionz, the same thing isle happening. right before the -- before nancy pelosi was trying to figure or not to pursue the articles of impeachment and introduce them into senate, the president decides he's going to go into

iraq and eliminate one of iranian's top generals, again, to change that narrative. sadly, this is where it becomes difficult. he has all of the information, all of the intelligence when it comes to why they struck, but even republicans who have seen the intelligence say it's not justification but it does exactly do what he always seems to do quite well, and that is change the narrative when he is most in trouble, when it comes around this idea of corruption, around impeachment, and he changes the narrative every single time. but it all leads to the same thing. we have to make sure that we are very clear that, yes, this is something that he may -- he -- the president at his disposal sadly seems to want to protect only one person and that is himself. and that makes us all more precarious america, more precarious world. >> i want to say quickly. this is a stepback moment we're having as well. when we hear from people like senator mike lee and rand paul, the only time you're seeing republicans want to make a

departure policywise from this president are times of foreign policy. lindsey graham announced he wanted to pull troops out of syria, it was that a-ha moment, lindsay graham is stepping away from the president even though he played golf with him five days before. you sit back and have these moments, philosophical moments and does, why is it you see republican senators feel most comfortable taking a step away or departure from the president's policies in moments of foreign policy. but when it comes to domestic politics or the impeachment inquiry, everything like that it seems like they're lockstep. >> they want power. you're right, there is a difference in some of these more tea party oriented republicans. rand paul being one of them. here he is on "meet the press" earlier today. >> do you feel as if you have got enough information to make you feel comfortable with what president trump did? >> you know, i think we've heard contradictory information. we've heard from the secretary of state that they don't know

where or when but it was imminent. that to me seems inconsistent. he seems he can square the circle but it seems pretty inconsistent. being for the war powers debate, we should have a debate whether we should be in iraq or afghanistan and there needs to be authorization from congress. >> you know, just from what you said earlier, what i think more of is the old -- going back to the '80s or '50s when we were decided to regime change around latin america because we just weren't happy with their -- that they didn't have a government like a pinot that we thought it would be more amenable or even in 1953 in iran when we decided, that guy wants to keep his own oil, he has to go. that's more what i'm thinking of in terms of what donald trump is doing, which is what he said he was running against. >> no, that's right. you know, going back to the issue of why republicans are more queescy about this. the stakes are so, so high.

trump upped the ante by going after the senior official of a state and not a terrorist leader. the trump promise when he ran for office was, i'm going to end endless wars. that's a promise. everybody presumably likes part-time going to bring troops home. there are, in fact, more troops in the middle east now than when donald trump took office. and in the midst of the latest iran crisis, a crisis he very much caused by his decision to target soleimani, he's sending even more with an extremely unclear mission. so, he's doing the exact opposite of what he promised americans he was going to do. and that's something that should absolutely give members of his own base real pause. >> well, some of his -- one thing, he's been taking their oil, which is a war crime. very quickly, we're hearing some reporting there's been more -- that there may have been more military activity or any updates on that? >> i don't have any updates on that. as we've been seeing protests across iran, we've been following and hearing protests

across iraq as well in the region. but with regards to any updates as far as military activity, i haven't seen that yet. if i do, we'll bring it to you. >> we'll keep an eye on your reporting. thank you all very much. up next, a very special moment of the week. a very special momt of the week. (snoring) what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts. >> man: what's my my truck...is my livelihood. so when my windshield cracked... the experts at safelite autoglass came right to me. >> tech: hi, i'm adrian. >> man: thanks for coming. ...with service i could trust. right, girl? >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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now it is time for who won the week. now, regular viewers know i usually have a panel. but today i've decided to use my host privilege and just declare that prince harry and meghan markle won the week because of their bold decision to step back from their official royal duties to strife to become financially independent. since their decision the royal couple have received a lot of criticism and backlash. against that backdrop, there will be a royal family meeting tomorrow to discuss the future roles of prince harry and meghan. no music this time? no music. we usually have exciting music. joining me from manchester, england, is henry bonsou, a relance brore lan freelance broadcaster.

this is a decision that has completely shaken up the royal family. "the daily mail" put out a poll, do people support harry and meghan's decision to give up their front line royal duties, yes 50%, 36% no. is that support for it because people are just glad to see them go because it seems like they're treated so poorly in britain. or is it because they want to see them be free? >> well, it depends on who you talk to. so if you look at the readership of "the daily mail" and the traditional tabloids who have been feeding them a diet of poison, a drip, drip, drip of briefings, especially against meghan who is presented as some kind of jezebel, some kind of lady macbeth who has been plotting to take harry away from his family, they want to seat back of meghan. but there has been a ferocious backlash led by black female writers in this country who say, we knew this was going to

happen, the royal family couldn't accept her, meghan is better going off to canada or north america with harry and sticking up two fingers to the royal family. it's not just the media coverage, it's also about people in the royal court, perhaps. >> here is meghan talking about the way the british tabloids are destroying her life. take a listen. >> when i first met my now husband, my friends were really happy because i was so happy. but my british friends said to me, i'm sure he's great, but you shouldn't do it because the british tabloids will destroy your life. and i very naively -- i'm an american, we don't have that

there, what are you talking about, that doesn't make any sense. i didn't get it. >> here is harry talking about defending his wife and doing it in the context of princess di. take a listen. >> my mum clearly taught me a certain set of values of which i will always try and uphold. i will always protect my family and now i have a family to protect. so everything that she went through and what happened to her is incredibly broad, every single day. that's not me being paranoid, it's me not wanting a repeat of the past. >> he really is his mother's son. this feels like them trying to survive this relationship and this relationship with the tabloids and the world. >> i think so. but remember, the briefings against them have been truly nasty. the picture is presented as if they were talking to elton john and oprah winfrey and briefed

them before they briefed the queen. what they actually did was put down their thoughts on paper as they were advised to do. but they were leaked by someone in the royal household to "the sun" newspaper. that's what made them post it on instagram. they were doing the right thing, consulting with the queen and with prince charles and prince william. i suppose they were betrayed by people, some of them in the royal household who leaked it, and that's why. i'm pleased that they've said we're going to control the media now, if you don't like it, then lump it. >> good for them. good for you, harry and meghan, you all won the week. henry bonsu, thank you very much, we appreciate it. before we go, we want to send a huge shoutout to the long island chapter of the national coalition of 100 black women. i had the pleasure of attending their black and white candlelight ball where i was honored with a trailblazer award, which is very good.

kari karine jean-pierre was also there and was honored. it was a lot of fun. a quick programming note, tonight at 9:00 peern, yasmin vossoughian and ayman mohyeldin will host a special, "iran crisis." tune in on msnbc. patients that i see that complain about dry mouth. they feel that they have to drink a lot of water. medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. i like to recommend biotene. it replenishes the moisture in your mouth. biotene definitely works. [heartbeat]

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that is our show for today.

thanks so much for watching. i want to thank our team member who invited me to the event last night. i talked so fast, i didn't get that in. alex witt has the latest. >> i do. you deserve that award. if any two fabulous people will help you get through the door, it's tremaine and jenny. i think you stole jenny from me but that's another story, my friend. >> we steal between friends. i love you so much, i take, a borrow. >> we share, it's in the family, it's all good. congrats, my friend. high noon here in the wiest, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." no regrets. speaker nancy pelosi on the sunday talk shows defending her decision to hold onto the articles of