she didn't hesitate to go after cooperation, donald trump sack cloth and ashes beating bernie and elizabeth on what she accusing them of treason. their chest in self-righteous called pipe dreams instead of a are the white house challengers indignation about what happened bringing a knife to a gun fight? pause it's not going to happen. do you know why? plan. pointing out that medicare for because i can't believe i'm good morning and welcome to saying this, but i'm going to all didn't even have enough "morning joe," it is wednesday, say it because it's true, democratic votes for it in the january 15th. everybody does it. along with joe, which will lee situates senate. she did that time and time again and me we have donny deutsch, maybe not to this degree, but last night. everybody does it and they've this gets jumbled around at the white house reporter for the been doing it for 100 years. associated press jonathan end in iowa. >> it does. lemire, chief public affairs bobby thompson, shot heard in i believe can win. officer at moveon.org and an >> for her to move into that 15% around the world, most famous home run in american history, viability in iowa i think she msnbc contributor careen would need to be on the ground baseball history, stole signs. in iowa and that's when the >> the interesting thing is the jean-pierre and in des moines impeachment trial is going to co-host of show time's "the technology. it was known basically your guys kick these guys in the shins, in the field fry to do it, it's circus" and editor in chief of almost part of the game. they will be stuck in washington the recount john heilemann. this because it had this for three solid weeks shoo one >> we have a lot to talk about, insidious technology, wiring, it who is not going to be stuck in mika, this morning. took on a different degree, but washington for three solid weeks >> the debate was big news. it was an accepted part of the so much going on with that. game. >> willie, it still is, right? in mayor pete who has been the note. sitting by listening to us while we were talking as if he weren't this note. >> yeah, the old fashioned sign >> confession note. there. >> shake down of ukraine. stealing is the guy standing on >> very impressive. >> if you saw that at the end of >> thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> what has struck us, we will perry mason you would say, come second base sees where the talk about the debate in a on. >> come on, you have to nuance catcher is setting up and points second, but what struck us about the iowa field and the polls here. >> come on, the script writers this way or that way. that have been over the past have to be a little less obvious this had a more dramatic layer couple weeks is how open it is, on the camera in on the

catcher's signs into the dugout, how fluid it is. any of four candidates can very here. get zelensky to announce the banging a trash can and to a easily be seen as not only team that won the world series biden case will be investigated. in 2017 and we're going to learn winning in iowa, but your recent more about what the red sox were polling in new hampshire shows you can win there, too. up to in 2018 under alex cora as tell us about that and what the holy moley. next three weeks look like for we start with the most important well. >> i played college baseball -- >> when you know what's you. coming -- >> yeah, we know two things, one >> you did? story. i have to say since the framing is that we can win and the other >> no. i fantasize sometimes. is that we will really have to work for it. >> okay. we're going to now -- it's funny when i'm on the trail >> you know, joe, there was a i'm meeting some voters who i've seen for about a year now, they of rod blagojevich, it appears level of chauncey gardner genius are the same ones who over the summer were saying things like, you know, you are in my top to your tweet about jackie that people -- you know, they bradley jr. not being able to seven, we will see as i get to know you. hated blago as he said because hit .200 even knowing what pitch now they are in decision mode. other folks who i think have of health care reform and they is coming. you still have to hit the ball. hated alex cora because he felt like the process was so that's the trick. >> first of all, thank you for helped kids in puerto rico. overwhelming over the last year, i guess, you know, the message it's just now that they're insulting me, mike, but tuning in. that major league baseball is secondly, yeah, you can know but what they all have in common sending to america is don't help that chris sale is going to be is they want to know what this election is going to mean for them. poor kids in puerto rico because throwing you a slider in april i think in the end every and may because his arm falls election is about the voters' he was a champion of hurricane off july 27th every year, but if relief, he was a voice for the people of puerto rico and major you are in may and know that fundamental question, how is my chris sale is throwing the life going to be different if league baseball kicks him out. slider, doesn't matter. you are president instead of you >> the same folks that framed you are just not going to be or you or you. being able to connect with pete rose are at it again, joe. able to hit t thank you for

voters directly on the ground, >> oh, my god. calling me chauncey gardner. talking about what it means to >> mika looks like she is now in turn the page from just the >> this is the first -- he is physical pain, not just -- >> i am. but it's not just the baseball exhaustion and the cynicism that out, he resigned last night as we're dealing with in donald talk, it's the matching jacket manager of the red sox, it was a trump's washington and actually mutual parting of ways as the statement with the red sox vest wristband and glasses. delivering solutions on everything from health care to ownership, it comes on the heels way too much. just making sure people get paid come on. of the report about the major how much -- like no. more. that's where we're connecting league baseball's report into the houston astros sign stealing >> by the way, all i can say and we will continue driving that message and having those when cora was the bench coach is -- conversations all the way until >> too much time in front of the the voting begins and beyond. there in 2017. >> so the discussion this >> he was just a bit player, morning a lot of it has been mirror. though. >> and then, joe, he became the >> used to wear the seersucker. about the debate last night and manager of the red sox in 2018. thank god he is not wearing a whether all the candidates on what did we do in 2018, do you sear suker. the stage any of them looked remember? >> foreign policy and trade led like they could take on donald the debate last night and about >> i remember what you and i 40 minutes in the moderators trump. so i guess my question to you is did. we second guessed cora every turned -- step of the way. >> we are about 40 minutes in so what this proves is we were buttigieg versus trump, what right now. does that look like? right? >> maybe. >> that is so true. >> well, what it looks like is >> no, as a joke, because he >> yes, we are. >> we are. >> i'm just getting to the made every right call regarding you will have donald trump pitchers and everything else. interesting moment here where standing next to somebody who the moderators turned to actually belongs to the kind of he had an incredible run. elizabeth warren's claim that >> he knew what was coming during a private conversation in industrial community that he apparently. >> not with the pitching. talks about all the time, but by the way, let me just say 2018 bernie sanders told her has clearly walked away from. that a woman couldn't win the right up front here, i was very you know, the decisions he's presidential election. hurt last night, willie and mika here is how that played out. made, the economic policies where as far as i can tell the will tell you i was -- some >> why did you say that? tears. >> i believe it. only promise he's kept when it

>> i was wiping tears and i >> well, as a matter of fact, i comes to economic policy was a didn't say it. and i don't want to waste a giant tax cut for corporations tweeted this, you don't have to whole lot of time on this and the wealthy. tweet -- >> it was a good tweet. because this is what donald trump maybe some of the media meanwhile, manufacturing is in >> i set that up. its own recession and so many want. >> you telegraphed that. anybody knows me knows that it's folks in communities like mine, >> i telegraphed it. even if their wages are going up incomprehensible that i would it's not nearly as fast as the >> bang the trash can. think that a woman could not be cost of health, cost of >> you need to know it's coming. president of the united states. go to youtube today, there is >> it's a political show. long-term care, cost of some video of me 30 years ago >> mike, what i couldn't talking about how a woman to retirement. understand was i was very upset when i'm standing next to this president i will be able to by all of this and i am because speak to that. if he tries to tough talk he become president of the united will have to do it standing next i actually liked alex cora a states. to somebody who is a walking in 2015 i deferred, in fact, to reminder of the president's lot, but the thing i don't decision not to serve and to senator warren, there was a understand, mike, is that they movement to draft senator warren take advantage of his status as the son of a millionaire in stole signs for a year and a to run for president and, do you order to get out on bone spurs. half at least and during that know what, i stayed back. senator warren decided not to i'm just going to be a run and i did run afterwards. time jackie bradley couldn't get fundamentally different kind of above the mendoza line. candidate and i think that's what we need because if you look you're hitting .177 for the hillary clinton won the popular at this president and how he got greater part of two years when vote by 3 million votes. here, you know, there are a lot of folks who don't even like you know what's coming. how could anybody in a million >> yeah. >> he is like the guy in major him, but voted the way they did years not believe that a woman league that would yell -- there because of a sense of not just it is. could become president of the united states? >> exactly. >> so, senator sanders -- but my biggest question right exhaustion, but frustration and now is how the red sox could senator sanders, do want to be sending a message to washington. clear here. you're saying that you never this is our chance to send a new still sign jackie bradley could told senator warren that a woman

message, one that we won't stand still hit below .200. could not win the election. for the divisiveness, the lies, >> that is correct. we're joking. >> senator warren, what did you the cruelty and that we're going sort of dark humor. it is, though, 2018 was a to reenter our politics around think when senator sanders told special year and alex cora, you a woman could not win the what it's all actually about, again, especially because of the which is every day life. stance he took on hurricane election? >> claire mccaskill. >> i disagreed. >> yeah, mayor pete, how are you relief in puerto rico and a lot bernie is my friend and i am not of other things, i hate to see here to try to fight with envisioning the next three weeks this happen. >> well, you know, joe, in the bernie, but, look, this question in terms of this impeachment long run major league baseball about whether or not a woman can did the right thing by inserting be president has been raised and trial? do you see an advantage for your itself and trying to clear up it's time for us to attack it campaign? and talk a little bit about what this advanced iowa is like in the last three head-on. and i think the best way to talk weeks. i think a lot of people don't analytics/technology hurricane about who can win is by looking realize that it is all about that has overcayman major league at people's winning record. volunteers on doors. baseball in the last ten years. so can a woman beat donald you have been talked about in in the scheme of things that we terms of your ground game and trump? talk about normally here each look at the men on this stage, the number of volunteers that and every day this is not a huge collectively they have lost ten have been flocking to your story, but in its essence it is campaign. what does that look like and how elections the only people on a sad story. this stage who have won every >> speak for yourself. >> okay. >> it is a huge story. single election that they've >> i will speak for myself. been in are the women, amy and confident do you feel, alex cora is a terrific guy, he especially if three of your candidates that you're running owned up to it, he basically against are not going to be on the ground? >> well, obviously as a resigned and now we have to candidate you want to be me. engaging voters, but as you say, >> i am completely confused as watch out for beltran with the to why it turned from bernie so much of this is now about new york mets because he was in organizers and volunteers. sanders saying i didn't say it with it as well. no matter how many town halls >> now you can get back to and appearances you do, you can

to elizabeth warren being asked calling general managers across what did you think when he said only be in a room with so many major league baseball and put it? together your fantasy for 2020. he says he didn't say it. iowans, but we've got organizers so you turn to elizabeth warren >> that's the key. and volunteers out there doing it every day and one of the that, my friend, is the key and i'm already at work on that. and say did he say it. that's the issue. things that's been really moving >> that was bizarre. and inspiring for me to see is >> mike's hot take. >> i mean, it's bizarre. i love it. what the heck happened there? how the organizers and the are they listening? >> with the red sox managers job communities that they are in because you have to listen when really kind of adopt each other. open now, mike barnicle feels you do a debate and then take they form these connections, like the perfect -- the question to the next >> why not mike? shared each other's stories and >> let's start that right here. candidate. that's what it takes in order to >> it was a miss. >> okay. >> here is a final thought, >> you were waiting to go did he really compete and then win on say -- >> it was a story and it's also donny, it's actually going to go painful to watch these candidates argue about this, caucus night. you know, so much of this is careen jean-pierre, these about making sure you have that to you. >> signal your virtue, please. democrats are supposed to look precinct organization to drive like they can take on trump and >> i don't get it. they are bickering about a folks out to the polls and >> donny, what i'm looking for right now is i out and conversation that happened at a encourage people to go in and private event. by the way, i have had stand with you. we know there are going to be conversations, private ups and downs in the coverage conversations taken to the press and in the polls, but at the end and totally manipulated for the of the day that ground game matters so much and we've worked benefit of the person who was hard to have an organization sharing the story. that really reflects the values this happens all the time. of the campaign. it's clear there is a i figure the best way to show misunderstanding or elizabeth versus tell what my presidency warren is focused on something will be like is for people to that was said and bernie sanders look at what our campaign is is not going to be someone who like, how our campaign staff says i don't think a woman could

win. treat people, how our volunteers that's just stupid. >> right. it would not be smart. are included in this process. because i talk so often about >> again, also bernie went to the crisis of belonging that i her in 2015 and said, hey, i think is affecting our country, it's been great to build a sense think you can win, i think you should run for president. of belonging in the campaign, even before the first vote is >> this is a terrible issue to bring up. cast and i think that will serve >> this is such small ball. >> it is, and we have to us very well when it does come remember the democratic base time to go to the polls. doesn't want to see this. >> mayor buttigieg, it's willie they want to know how are you geist. going to beat donald trump? good to see you this morning, i'm going to tell you something that's what they want to see. you've heard one million times but i have to say i think both is that you cannot win the democratic primary without doing of them try very hard to better than you're doing with black voters. deescalate, they didn't want to that's just a fact. the latest "washington post" continue the fight, and i do have to say that elizabeth ipsos poll has joe biden with warren did a really smart job with broadening it and talking 48% nationally support among black voters, bernie sanders at about the -- kind of the 20, you have to go way down the list to find you at 2% with underlying what's been on the surface, can a woman win the presidency, which she can, but andrew yang and tom steyer. something that's been there for people thinking about voting since 2016. for new iowa who like you a lot, >> but this is not about that, this is about beating trump. >> i agree. like what you see from you, >> and the eye is way off the think you do well in the debates ball. by the way, there are several but have somewhere in the back women on the debate stage, there of their mind he might do well in iowa, maybe he does well in are many women who ran for president this time around, we are in a different place now. new hampshire but i don't know how he's going to win south

let's stop complaining and get carolina at 2% support among to work. >> by the way, john heilemann, black voters. what do you see to that voter to assure them that number will change in a way it hasn't over there are moments in debates where people pick up on the past few months. >> my support among black voters something. i think back to the '92 debate is strongest among those who know me best, in south bend, in where george h.w. bush looks at the midwest, here in iowa, too, his watch for like two seconds and, my god, you think he would iowa of course does not have as large a number of an have -- i mean, the reaction from the press, you would think african-american community as other states, but those who are that he had gotten a nazi flag here we've been able to be very taken off all of his clothes and competitive, today i will be campaigning with the mayor of run around the debate stage waterloo which has the most screaming for the next 30 minutes. they focused on t that's what african-americans by proportion of any community in the state people focus on in debates. and he is the first black mayor this clip is what people were of the city. we are going to continue driving focusing on last night after the that message and also sharing debate, let's run it, alex. south bend's story. not only for me but from others, >> yeah. elected officials from our community who can speak to the work we've done on the ground. >> so everybody shaking hands. the issues of racial justice >> shakes hands with joe biden that are at stake right now in and clearly the rift is with this race are tremendous and bernie sanders. you're going to make an attempt they're playing out across every to shake his hand to show -- community, whether it's the need

really? wow. are we like that? for greater economic empowerment okay. this is fantastic for the for black americans or the need democrats. >> okay. for health equity. and then of course anderson another heartbreaking story with cooper. anderson, how are you doing? tashana ward in milwaukee who hope you're well. lost her life after being in an emergency room for more than two i mean, listen, we're going to hours and without knowing all of the details of the case it have frame by frame, this is certainly aligns with so many instances where we have seen frame by frame, but still not a black patients not have their description of being an urgent good look. need and serious pain taken as >> not cool. seriously as white patients. >> for two top democrats we know how much work there is to do around racial justice in fighting over something -- >> bernie tried to shake her policing. we have worked these issues on the ground in south bend, not hand. >> -- as stupid as this. >> heilemann? from the comfort of a debate >> oh, sorry, you guys, back to stage or a committee room, but actually having to get them done, which of course means that me. we succeed often and often we yeah. look, the tape, i think, you're come up short, but when i am in right, joe, people are going to the oval office there will be a analyze t people trying to do president who knows what it is to confront these issues and is lip reading on it after the personally committed to make debate last night. sure that we act. in the environment we now live >> forgive the interruption. you've been out there for almost in on twitter you had people who a year saying many of the things looked at that tape and were you're saying here today, you like, man, elizabeth warren put out a plan that impressed a really showed bernie sanders, and then you had another bunch lot of people, the frederick of people like, oh, my god, douglass plan and yet the

bernie sanders really showed elizabeth warren. numbers haven't moved. it makes my head hurt how the how do you diagnose the problem same context of the story where, with your campaign on this issue. >> of course there is a you know, some people are difference between campaigning absolutely convinced that bernie and getting known for one year sanders is lying and other and doing it for 40, but the people are absolutely convinced thing about the caucus process elizabeth warren is lying and i and the primaries in the get heat when i say, i don't individual states from iowa to know. i don't really know what happened in this conversation, but i do know this, i think this south carolina to the others is they break this down and for a moment of the debate last night lot of voters who really do make and it was a dull debate, it was their final determinations in the last ten days or so, i a plodding debate -- believe we have every >> by the way, john, i mean, opportunity to continue getting that message out, to continue nobody looked good on that earning trust and earning debate stage last night. let's just say what everybody is support. >> mayor buttigieg, gene saying behind the scenes. robinson. i'm going to follow up on i mean, who i've talked to, willie's question and ask you a nobody looked good on the debate bit more about my home state of stage last night. it was probably everybody's south carolina which easy to weakest performance. imagine you doing well or >> it was a dull and plodding winning in iowa, doing well or debate. you had 39 minutes at the top of winning in new hampshire and the debate about foreign policy then coming to south carolina and trade and not really even any pointed questions about where you're really in the iran. it was really kind of like why single digits according to the are you the best person could be commander in chief. you know, i really was sort of polls and right now don't look

to do very well. stunned by how airless and what's your point of entry lifeless the debate was. so the sanders/warren thing had there? what or who is your point of entry there? do you have endorsements there the emotional energy coming into that you think will help you? it, that exchange had a lot of people -- it was the moment a lot of people were waiting for. is there a place in the state where you think you're whatever happened a year ago and whatever is going to happen now particularly strong? >> yeah, certainly continuing to and that's pretty important and why the thing that happened at do the work on the ground and the end of the debate may matter building out our ground in the sense that those two organization there, too, but i people fighting over the course of the next two weeks going into will tell you something else, black voters that i speak to iowa, that could have real consequences for the race, but have raised again and again the whatever you think about all of that, that moment when elizabeth fundamental pragmatic question warren pivoted and made the of how are you going to win? point about her bsh about the so many people i talk to more electoral success of the women than anything else just urgently on stage versus the men on stage want to make sure that we can was a good debate moment. defeat donald trump. it was a scripted moment for now, there's also a lot of sure, she knew the question was skepticism, especially in the coming but she stuck the landing black community, about a new face. and that's one of the reasons and you could see millions of why it will be important to women, democratic women across succeed in a place like iowa, to the country going, damn right. i think it's the only moment demonstrate to voters in south maybe that anybody is going to carolina who maybe think that remember from this debate 24 the frederick douglass plan is a hours from now. i think the question about this great vision for the future, are debate is i don't think it changes any of the dynamics in certainly open to what they see this race over the next two from our campaign, but really weeks, we still have four need to see that show of

candidates bunched up at the strength. so that's going to be a big part top. i think this debate will quickly of it as well as the work we're fade from memory, but the doing on the ground to continue question going forward now is building up the support that we are the sanders and warren not have in communities and just as candidates but their introducing ourselves in places teams and their campaigns are that haven't seen us yet. they going to lay it aside now >> mayor pete, you mentioned the and get back to campaigning or singular achievement of the is this battle between sanders trump administration, the huge and warren which is a real tax cut for corporations and you also referenced the fact that thing, no at media creation, these campaigns are mad at each you try to speak to more issues other is that going to continue or not? i don't know the answer. that affect people's every day >> if they were debating over policy, that's one thing. lives. i understand the obligation you >> yeah. >> but here we are on the same must feel and the others must feel to answer specific night that donald trump, the questions that are requested during the course of the debate, president of the united states, called democrats traitors, they but why is it that you and the rest of the people on the panel are not shaking each other's last night, on the debate panel last night, the candidates, hands and -- >> ridiculous. don't address just real off the >> -- they're whining and whimpering about god knows what issues where donald trump has and people trying to recall altered america already? two-year-old phone conversations the roll back in food stamps, and it just -- the whole thing the roll back in environmental regulations, the fact that the should send a chill up stock market is soaring each and every day and weekly paychecks

democrats' spines because these people are still not ready for haven't moved per capita really prime time. >> when i heard john say, and he in two decades? why focus on specific study hall is right, that online and behind the scenes people were saying, questions that you get from yeah, elizabeth stuck it to debate moderators and not just bernie or bernie stuck it to go right after trump? elizabeth, my thought is those >> well, i never miss an opportunity to go after donald aren't the people you should be trump but i also think this sticking it to. a name we haven't mentioned yet election if we're going to turn the page, this morning, joe biden. if we're going to move into a joe biden sat there and let them go back and forth and volley on this question. new and better american moment, by the way, with he got no closer to the truth on the question of whether or not bernie sanders said that because if we're going to not only undo the damage that he's done but elizabeth warren wasn't asked speak to the conditions that and followed up on, but joe brought him here, then we've got to talk about a bigger vision biden can sit back and let them for america. remember, a guy like donald fight it out and hopefully ride trump should never have been it out until election day, i able to come within cheating guess, jonathan. distance of winning the >> that was clearly his strategy presidency in the first place. yesterday. he is a symptom, as well as a there was no breakout moment perhaps other than senator cause, of so many of the problems we're facing in this warren's comment that john just country. and whether it's on the debate mentioned. it did seem that biden was willing to stay out of the fray stage or in our campaign events, there. you know, former mayor pete this is our opportunity to lay buttigieg as well, amy out a vision for the future of the republic and for the future klobuchar. we had moments here and there, but i don't think the dynamic of of our everyday lives. and explain how they go

the race changed at all, the top together. look. if we were to try to spend the four bunched within a few points evening listing off the ways in of each other. there is an impeachment trial which this president has been that those articles are being transmitted today, that trial is harmful to our country, two hours wouldn't be enough to going to start in earnest next contain it. but we're going to continue week and there will be senators hitting hard on all of the areas on that stage who will not be where he's let people down. able to go to iowa because they especially, by the way, the people he sought to speak to will be stuck in washington on that. both warren and sanders will from workers in the industrial have to curtail their midwest to farmers, who he has campaigning. last comment on the handshake betrayed at every turn. and the video that we are all but it's not just about him. going to be seeing time and time and one of the things i found again, the tom steyer part of it is also very funny because he is speaking to voters in every part there throughout the whole of the country is they thing. what we need is a congressional appreciate that sense that the less we're talking about him, subpoena to tom steyer who would the more we're talking about have heard the exchange between you. the two of them on stage and >> former mayor pete buttigieg. that will be how we get to the thank you very much for coming bottom of it. >> the steyer commission. on the show this morning. it's always great to have you. >> do you know who was missing and we look forward to talking from the stage for me last to you again. night, donald trump. >> thank you. great to be with you. people at home have this >> and coming up next hour, the candidate who went after donald visceral need to feel a candidate punch out. trump more than any other on i thought amy klobuchar would last night's debate stage. pivot each time there was a question and somehow bring it senator amy klobuchar will be back as a contrast to trump, but our guest. we're back in just a moment. to me when we have this ogre who is so defining and every research tells you who can beat trump, that's the greatest

driver, i felt he was sorely missing. obviously the candidates and their research chose to not make it about him, but there is a way to still keep it about you and about policy and your message but at the same time punch out and i thought that was sorely missing. >> joe just raised the critical point, donny, i mean, how can she people standing there all of them wanting to be president of the united states not refer it to the fact that within the last 48 hours the president of the united states photo shopped an image of nancy pelosi and chuck schumer an anti-muslim image, you know, calling them traitors, basically, he has called nearly all of the democrats running for president traitors and not address that in terms of being able to take on donald trump? the good news? our comfort lasts all day. the bad news? so does his energy. take him on now. depend® fit-flex underwear offers don't wait until september or october, take him on now for your best comfort and protection guaranteed. what he has already done just in because, perfect or not, life's better when you're in it. the last ten days. and we talk about endless wars be there with depend®. all the time, last night was proof that we now have endless debates and you raised tom steyer is standing there. look at probably a good guy, probably he's certainly got a legitimate business record to

look at, but there's something wrong with the debate formats when tom steyer is on the stage when in your gut,dent and cory booker is not on the you feel confident to take on anything. with benefiber, stage. >> you know, john heilemann, it you'll feel the power of gut health confidence every day. really is shocking that the benefiber is a 100% natural prebiotic fiber. decisions that these democratic good morning mrs. johnson. candidates have made, shocking benefiber. trust your gut. politically, over the past six, eight months. many of them in the first two or three debates decided that it was going to be a good move to attack barack obama on health care and immigration. just stupid, the guy 90% approval rating. and very few of them focus on trump. forgive me for saying this, but, you know, the first time i ran there were like 11 people in the field. do you think i ever mentioned any of those people's names? no. i ran against bill clinton. it was 1994. you ask me a question about another candidate, i talked about bill clinton. you asked me a question about -- whatever it was, it all went back to bill clinton. and i was this kid, nobody knew who i was, but they were like,

okay, he is a guy who is going to go up and fight. here we are on such a larger stage where i will say it, the framework of madisonian democracy is at risk. america's standing in the world is at risk. for powerful relief from cold and flu symptoms without a prescription, try theraflu multi-symptom. i mean, our government and theraflu dissolves in seconds, so it's ready to work before your first sip, and absorbs quickly to target and attack everything that we have believed 8 cold and flu symptoms fast. that it was striving to be is at try theraflu. think you need to buy expensive skincare products [♪] risk and democrats are debating to see dramatic results? try olay skin care. what somebody may have said on just one jar of micro-sculpting cream has the hydrating power of 5 jars of a prestige cream, the telephone two years ago. kids are watching the show this which helps plump skin cells morning so i can't tell you what and visibly smooth wrinkles. i think that is, i will just say while new olay retinol24... provides visibly smoother, brighter skin. for dramatic skincare results, try olay. that's messed up and to and now receive 25% off your purchase at olay.com paraphrase george w. bush, one

of the great quotes of all time, brand power. helping you buy better. that's some weird stuff. and with the sxfinity stream app, screen is your big screen. >> yeah. you know, it's interesting, joe, which is free with your service, you can take a spin through on demand shows, you know, here in des moines where i've been for now, i or stream live tv. guess, five days, you know, all download your dvr'd shows and movies on the fly. the candidates are now up on tv. even record from right where you are. you can see some really good -- they're running some pretty good whether you're travelling around the country ads, biden in particular has an or around the house, ad that tries to focus in the keep what you watch with you. way that you are talking about, tries to focus in on the, you download the xfinity stream app know, what this is really all and watch all the shows you love. about. who donald trump, the threat he poses and biden's argument that he is the best one to take on trump. all the candidates are finding various ways to try to get at that in their -- if you see them on the stump, if you see them in town hall meetings, if you see them on television in their paid advertising in different ways, biden is the most clear on t but i totally agree with you, i think we're going to look back on 2019 and really feel like with a giant field, a lot of talented people, what no one really ever did was really crystallize that argument in a way and the whole field didn't

crystallize that argument in a way that everyone recognizes that it's the central thing on democratic voters' mind and no one was really able to harness an argument around it and make it clear and coherent and compelling, and yet think now two and a half weeks out that with the smaller stage and this is the top tier, we've got at 56 past the hour, at know really four candidates, maybe your value.com, it's all about five, who are still really in the comeback. the running, amy klobuchar kind the book comeback careers that i of a dark horse still in there, put out yesterday along with you know, you would think that there would be focus. this would be the moment when jenny and it's about women who you focus. took a break and want to get that was my prediction, that back into work. this debate would be a great or perhaps want to make a debate and there would be a dramatic career shift. >> i'm so excited about your renewed focus and they finally find the thread and, man, last book. >> thank you. night it was not there and i agree with you right now, you're starting to hear one other thing >> i'm so excited. like, what did i tell you? that's connected to this, right, >> what's he doing? >> i just saw you run. which is someone from this group is going to have to go up against donald trump and that this entire democratic fight has >> itactually, doing really wel. holy cow. >> and you talk about claire in been so -- to use chicken poop i comeback careers. >> claire, i love this. think would be the word you want you start a whole new career. to use for the kids watching like, this is about women after this morning -- no one has

mid-life having a long runway. so if a woman wants to make a elevated, even the clashes are cheap and petty. comeback, what is your best >> yes. piece of advice? >> how is this going to >> my best piece of advice is condition the ultimate nominee to take on the beast that donald don't go at it with the attitude that i'm not sure i can pull this off. trump is. and people are starting to get >> that's what they do. >> you've got to have the worried, has our nominee gone attitude that i have -- pardon through the rigger, our the expression -- i have value. potential nominee, have they know your value and come in with gone through the riggers and taken the beating that you want a lot of confidence that what to see from a democratic you have done, including your time away, has given you the candidate when you know what's coming down the road. is anybody confident looking at perspective that you can be an these people that they are tough incredible, valuable member of the team. enough to be able to stand up to >> so nancy -- nancy pelosi donald trump. just purely tough enough and can talks about this book. and she -- you got a blurb on take the big punch. >> and do they have the the top of it. and she's in it. political instincts because, you but what an incredible story for, let's say, a woman who's know, it's not just the gotten out of the workforce for political class that talks about 10 years, 15 years. think about nancy pelosi. how many kids? donald trump all the time. four, five kids? you go to any dinner table in >> five. >> and how old was she when she america, like you go into got into politics? >> 47. communities in america and >> 47. now, the most powerful woman in people are talking about trump. america. >> possibly, the world. >> other than mike's wife. but it's incredible. it is an obsession on the right, it is an obsession on the left. >> ellen latham. orange theory.

fired then years later at 54 people that don't talk about trump will tell you i'm not starting that. but women who even want to start talking about trump. they will make that something small and get back into a career, you've got to start somewhere by saying yes. pronouncement. and they struggle with that. and yet on the debate stage, on this book pushes you through the democratic debate stage with that mindset. >> i'm sorry, willie, what's the name of this book again? so much at stake, karine, with >> it's called -- mika -- >> "comeback careers." so much at stake, these >> go to your local bookstore. democrats do not even have the political instinct to focus in do that. >> hold on. go to your independent not on what the beltway crowd is bookstore. also, there is a little thing called amazon. i think they're carrying it. talking about, but what the but it really is an incredible world is talking about. book. >> i'm just glad it said 40, we live in the age of trump. >> right. 50s, and beyond. >> and they are talking about i would be the and beyond of that phrase. >> we got a long way to go. phone calls that may not have even happened. >> yeah, and we are 20 days away come on. let's get in there. >> decades. from iowa caucus. decades. >> exactly. this is the last time we are all right. going to see these guys on stage eugene robinson, thank you very much. together. we will be reading your latest this was the opportunity to make column in "the washington post." a stance, to really show why you house democrats have released a trove of documents related to should win iowa and the rest of president trump's impeachment the coming up states and you did and it doesn't look great for

rudy. not see that. plus, senators elizabeth you did not -- like you said, warren and bernie sanders seem there was no donald trump in the to deescalate tensions during conversation really. there was no contrast to donald trump. and i do think anytime they ask lab last night's debate but what you about a policy or an issue you contrast and you say, hey, happened afterwards appears to be another story. back in one minute with a chair this is what donald trump is for joe. tory back in one minute with a chair doing, guys, this is what's for joe. happening out there and it was a miss once again. only pay for what you need... and it's really disappointing, only pay for what you need. but, you know, there's another ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ thing we haven't talked about, now you have the impeachment dump coming and three of those i like working. what if my retirement plan is, guys are not going to be in iowa i don't want to retire? then let's not create a retirement plan, come next week. so how are they going to really let's create a plan for what's next. i like that. get a plan that's right for you. break through? now they have to figure out how td ameritrade. to break through, who you to continue to have that conversation. get a plan that's right for you. so this is going to be a wild 20 for bathroom odors that linger days. try febreze small spaces. >> and, by the way, if they have just press firmly an imagination they're going to be able to say i was -- they're and it continuously eliminates odors in the air and on soft surfaces. going to be able to deliver a speech on the senate floor and for 45 days. they will be able to walk out, they will be able to hold a press conference, they can set up telephone town hall meetings. doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding?

they can do a lot of different things, but i don't -- just -- memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. i'm just struck. donny, you did this for a living prevagen. healthier brain. better life. and how tone deaf these people are. >> if you stop on the street the first thing people say, what are we going to do about that guy? we have to do something about i am able to work with him. to not get that that is the decision is going to be made on republicans. i am able to bring people who can beat trump. together. >> crazy bernie sanders and the washington democrats. john used the word tough. >> i can't hold a grudge. who is tough enough? i have to be able to not only people want to see somebody punch him in the face. fight but also heal. i don't mean that literally, but >> you ever notice with biden -- that is the emotional need and in your great state of iowa. emotion and feelings and gut drive elections. iowa. it's iowa, right? not left brain. >> we have a chance to unite. last night was all left brain. >> and you just have to wonder unite as democrats. why the warren campaign, but also, with independents and elizabeth warren, brought up this issue because that's where -- i mean, what in the republicans. >> according to elizabeth world? >> this didn't happen by accident two days before this pocahontas warren. debate a report was leaked to >> what is hard is bringing people together and finding cnn that bernie sanders allegedly had said that to common ground instead of elizabeth warren that a woman couldn't win, elizabeth warren scorched earth. >> traitor. came out the day before the you having a good time, sir? debate, confirmed the story so

you knew it was going to be a i think you are. topic at the debate. that was something the warren because, traitor, they are. campaign wanted to talk about. i guess in a certain way, they i will echo something donny are traitors when you think about it. said, we didn't talk very much >> all right. democrats talking about cooperation. donald trump accusing them of about amy klobuchar, she did take every answer and talk about treason. donald trump. >> she will be on the show are the white house challengers today, we will be talking to her bringing a knife to a gun fight? good morning and welcome to about navigating impeachment "morning joe." versus iowa and pete buttigieg it is wednesday, january 15th. along with joe, willie, and me, will be on the show as well. john heilemann, thank you for we have donnie deutsch. being on the show this morning. white house reporter for the >> make fun of my dress. "associated press." look at him. >> he looks okay. jonathan lemire. donny, you just try so much. chief public affairs office at >> with the check and the fleece. come on. moveon.org and msnbc >> we're going to be asking our contributor, karine jon pierre. "morning joe" -- can you put john heilemann up? co-host of showtime's the circus and editor in chief of the we have mike's hot take and recount. john heilemann. "kasie dc." we're going to have a segment and we'll start with last night's showdown between the called getting high on life. democratic candidates for getting high on life with president. heilemann and we're trying to foreign policy and trade led the debate. figure out do we use the austin then about 40 minutes in, the powers effect where we're moderators turned to elizabeth pushing in and out, do we do the warren's claim that during a george harrison kaleidoscope

private conversation in 2018, thing in magical mystery tour. bernie sanders told her that a woman couldn't win the >> a lot of sitar music. presidential election. here's how that played out. everybody tweet me @joenbc and >> why did you say that? >> well, as a matter of fact, i tell us how do we frame the didn't say it. and i don't want to waste a getting high on life with john whole lot of time on this because this is what donald heilemann. trump and maybe some of the >> joe, i wish it were life that media want. john were high on. >> i have to say that because anybody knows me, knows that the kids. >> fair enough. it's incomprehensible that i >> the kids they watch this. would think that a woman could >> in this case life is a not be president of the united synonym for a lot of things, states. go to youtube today. there is some video of me 30 willie. >> more on that handwritten note years ago talking about how a we showed you at the top of the show, house democrats provide woman could become president of the united states. new evidence of a push by rudy giuliani and his associates to in 2015, i deferred, in fact, to meddle in ukraine. we will run through all of that senator warren. and joe's band, oh, my gosh, has there was a movement to draft senator warren to run for the gig tonight at prohibition president. and you know what i said? in new york city kicks off. stay back. in new york city kicks off senator warren decided not to run and i did run afterwards. hilary clinton won the popular vote by 3 million votes. how could anybody, in a million hour' watching "morning joe," we years, not believe that a woman

will be right back. hour' watching "morning joe," we will be right back could become president of the united states? >> so, senator sanders -- senator sanders, i do want to be clear here. you're saying that you never told senator warren that a woman could not win the election? >> that is correct. >> senator warren, what did you think when senator sanders told you a woman could not win the election? hour' watching "morning joe," we >> i disagreed. hour' watching "morning joe," we ♪ limu emu & doug bernie is my friend and i am not here to try to fight with bernie. but look. this question about whether or not a woman can be president has been raised and it's time for us to attack it head on. and i think the best way to talk about who can win is by looking at people's winning record. so can a woman beat donald trump? look at the men on this stage. collectively, they have lost ten elections. the only people on this stage who have won every single election that they've been in are the women. amy and me.

>> i -- i am completely confused as to why it turned from bernie sanders saying i didn't say it [ siren ] to elizabeth warren being asked what did you think when he said it? he says he didn't say it. give me your hand! so you -- you turn to elizabeth i can save you... warren and say did he say it? ...lots of money with liberty mutual. that's the issue. >> that was bizarre. >> i mean, it's bizarre. we customize your car insurance what the heck happened there? so you only pay for what you need! are -- are -- are they listening? because you got to listen when [ grunting ] you do a debate. and then take the question to the next candidate. only pay for what you need. >> it was a miss. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ yeah. >> it was a miss. >> it's also painful to watch these candidates argue about this, karine john pierre, these democrats are supposed to look like they can take on trump and they are bickering about a conversation that happened at a private event. by the way, i've had conversations, private conversations, taken to the press and totally manipulated doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? for the benefit of the person who was sharing the story. this happens all the time. memory support brand.

you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. it's clear there is a misunderstanding or elizabeth warren is focused on something prevagen. healthier brain. better life. that was said. and -- and bernie sanders is not my body is truly powerful. going to be someone who says i don't think a woman could win. i have the power to lower that's just stupid. my blood sugar and a1c. >> right. it would not be smart. because i can still make my own insulin. and trulicity activates >> also, bernie went to her in my body to release it like it's supposed to. 2015 and said, hey, i think you trulicity is for people with type 2 diabetes. can win. i think you should run for president. it's not insulin. >> this is a terrible issue to bring up. i take it once a week. >> this is such small ball. it starts acting in my body from the first dose. >> it is. and -- and we have to remember trulicity isn't for people with type 1 diabetes the democratic base doesn't want to see this. or diabetic ketoacidosis. they want to know how are you don't take trulicity if you're allergic to it, going to beat donald trump? you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, that's what they want to see. but i have to say they -- i or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. think both of them tried very hard to deescalate. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away they didn't want to continue the if you have an allergic reaction, fight. a lump or swelling in your neck, and i do have to say that elizabeth warren did a really or severe stomach pain. smart job with broadening it and serious side effects may include pancreatitis. talking about the -- kind of the taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin underlying, what's been on the increases low blood sugar risk. surface, can a woman win the side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, belly pain, presidency? which she can. but something that's been there and decreased appetite, since 2016. >> but this is not about that. which lead to dehydration and may worsen kidney problems. this is about beating trump.

>> i agree. i have it within me to lower my a1c. i agree. >> their eye is way off the ball. and by the way, there are ask your doctor about trulicity. several women on the debate stage -- there are many women who ran for president this time around. we're in a different place now. let's stop complaining and get to work. >> by the -- by the way, john heilemann, there are moments in debates where people pick up on something. i think back to the '92 debate george h.w. bush looks at his watch for like two seconds. and, my god, you think he would have -- i mean, the reaction from the press. you would think he had gotten a nazi flag, taken off all his clothes and run around the debate stage screaming for the next 30 minutes. they focused on it. that's what people focus on the debates. this clip is what people were focusing on last night. after t after the debate. so everybody shaking hands. >> yep, shakes hand with joe biden. then clearly, the rift is with bernie sanders. so you're going to make an

attempt to shake his hand. really? wow. are we like that? okay. this is fantastic for the democrats. >> and of course, anderson cooper. hi, anderson. how are you doing? all right. thank you very much. >> so yeah. i mean, listen. people are -- it's -- we're she called me again and she said going to have frame by frame. that there were great concerns, this is -- frame by frame. there were concerns up the but still, not a good look. street and she said i needed to >> not cool. get -- come home immediately, >> for two top democrats. get on the next plane to the >> well, bernie tried to shake u.s., and i asked her why, and her hand. >> look, the tape i think you're she said she wasn't sure, but right. people are going to analyze it. there were people trying to do there were concerns about my lip reading on it after the debate last night. security. and as usual, in the environment i asked her, my physical we now live in on twitter, you security? had people who looked at that because sometimes washington knows more than we do about these things. tape and were like, man, it and she said, no, she hadn't was -- elizabeth warren really -- really showed bernie gotten that impression that it was a physical security issue, sanders. and then another bunch of people but they were concerned about my like, oh my god, bernie sanders security and i needed to come really showed elizabeth warren. home right away. you know, i argued. and it makes my head hurt how this is extremely irregular. the same context of the story where, you know, some people are

absolutely convinced that bernie and no reason given. sanders is lying. and other people are absolutely but in the end i did get on the convinced that elizabeth warren is lying. and i -- you know, i get heat next plane. >> that was former u.s. when i say i don't know. i don't really know what happened in this conversation. ambassador to ukraine, marie but i do know this. i think, you know, this moment yovanovitch testifying in of the debate last night and it november recalling an unknown was -- it was a dull debate. concern that had arisen about her physical security forcing it was a plotting debate. her to come back to the u.s. it was not a debate -- >> by the way, john, i mean we now have clarity as to what concern actually was after nobody looked good on that records were turned over debate stage last night. just saying what everybody's yesterday by lev parnas' saying behind the scenes. attorneys bringing a new figure i mean, who i've talked to. to the spotlight of the ukraine nobody looked good on the debate scandal, gop candidate for stage last night. it was -- it was probably congress in connecticut, robert everybody's weakest performance. >> it was a dull and plodding hyde. documents appear to know that hyde was tracking i don't have debate. you had 39 minutes at the top of know vich's physical movements the debate about foreign policy along with her computer and and trade. and not really even any pointed questions about iran. phone. it was really kind of like why the documents include what's app are you the best person to be exchanges from march 2019 commander-in-chief? between parnas and hyde where i -- you know, i really was sort of stunned by how airless and they appear to be discussing lifeless the debate was. yovanovitch. the messages include links to so this sanders/warren thing had the emotional energy coming into

stories about her and were from it. that exchange had a lot of people -- it was the moment around the time giuliani was people were waiting for. pushing to get her fired. and i got to say whatever they suggest that the president happened a year ago and whatever's going to happen now, and that's pretty important why the thing that happened at the had already decided once to remove her, but may have changed end of the debate may matter in the sense that those two keep his mind. fighting over the course of the however, according to nbc news next two weeks going into iowa, hyde said he was drinking when that could have real he sent the messages to parnas. in a text to nbc news hyde consequences for the race. but whatever you think about all that, that moment when elizabeth attacked house intelligence committee chair adam schiff in warren pivoted and made the point about her -- the electoral colorful terms. yovanovitch's lawyer is calling success of the women on stage on authorities to investigate versus the men on stage was a whether she was, in fact, being good debate moment. it was a scripted moment for sure. monitored. let's bring in national she knew the question was coming but she stuck the landing and political reporter for nbc news you could see millions of women, josh letterman. democratic women, across the >> josh, what can you tell us? country going, damn right. so i think it's the only moment >> well, this has just been a maybe that anybody's going to remember from this debate 24 really bizarre turn of events. hours from now. and so i think the question just when we thought that all about this debate is i don't think it changes any of the the facts had basically come out in the impeachment saga this dynamics in this race over the next two weeks. bombshell last night, new text we still have four candidates messages, even this new all kind of bunched up at the character, robert hyde, who we top. i think this debate will quickly had no idea until last night was fade from memory. but the question going forward even involved in any of this. now is are the sanders and in addition to those really

warren not just as candidates but their teams and their menacing texts that you were just scribing that suggest that campaigns, are they going to lay it aside now and get back to they might have had yovanovitch campaigning? under surveillance, there was or is this battle between also those handwritten notes sanders and warren, which is a that you showed earlier showing real thing, not a media creation. these campaigns are mad at each lev parnas, this indicted other. is that going to continue or not? i don't know the answer. giuliani associate, basically >> the thing is if -- if they're organizing the plot they were going to carry out, talking debating over policy, that's one thing. about getting zelensky to but here we are, on the same night that donald trump, the announce investigations. also this previously undisclosed president of the united states, letter from rudy giuliani to called democrats traitors. president zelensky saying evers acting with trump's knowledge they're not shaking each other's and permission in trying to seek hands. and they're -- a meeting with zelensky. the upshot of this really is >> ridiculous. >> they're whining and going to be additional pressure whimpering about, you know, god knows what and people trying to on senate republicans and mitch mcconnell in particular to allow witnesses not to try to shut recall two-year-old phone conversations. that down in the process now and it just -- the whole thing that it's clear that there are new people, new events that occurred in this story that should send a chill up house democrats really weren't democrats' spine -- spines because these people are still able to get to during the house not ready for primetime. impeachment hearings. >> when i heard john say and >> you know, willie, here is one more thing where, again, people he's right that online and

behind the scenes, people are say, well, did nancy pelosi hold saying, yeah, elizabeth really stuck it to bernie. the articles too long. or bernie really stuck to think about everything that we elizabeth. my only thought is those aren't have learned since they've been held. i know she's under pressure by the people you're supposed to be democrats to send them over. sticking it to. i'd like to know why. donald trump is the one democrats are supposed to be because this is going to keep sticking to. a name we haven't mentioned this coming out. i mean, we're going to keep morning. joe biden. joe biden let them go back and forth and volley on this learning new things like this. question. by the way, we got no closer to >> well, as josh says we didn't the truth on the question of even know about this character whether or not bernie sanders robert hyde, with he didn't know said that because elizabeth about what looks like warren wasn't asked and followed surveillance of the u.s. up on. but joe biden can sit back and ambassador over there. let them fight it out. >> from associates of the and hopefully, ride it out until election day i guess, jonathan. president's personal lawyer who was sent to ukraine. >> yeah. that was clearly his strategy >> right. >> for this. yesterday. >> so, josh, you know, obviously there was no breakout moment perhaps other than senator these documents were provided to the house intelligence committee warren's comment john just by lev parnas' attorney, they mentioned. it did seem biden was willing to are redacted, yovanovitch's name stay out of the fray there. isn't used there, but when you mayor pete buttigieg as well. amy klobuchar. people had moments here or look at the context it's pretty there. clear who they are talking but i don't think the dynamic of about. i guess my question to you is is the race changed at all. this what it appears to be, we have the top four bunched within a few points of each which is what joe just laid out, other. associates of the president's far more likely to impact things is the fact that there is an impeachment trial that -- that personal attorney conducting those articles are being surveillance on a united states

transmitted today. that trial's going to start, in ambassador, physical surveillance? >> well, look, if it wasn't that then there have been plenty of earnest, next week. and there are going to be opportunities for robert hyde to senators who are not going to be able to go to iowa. say so and for others around him and parnas to say so and when i was texting with robert hyde both warren and sanders are going to have to really curtail last night i asked him their campaigning. last comment on the handshake explicitly, so, you know, when and the video we're all going to be seeing time and time again. you say you were drinking with your buddies when you sent these text messages, are you saying the tom steyer part of it is that you weren't actually having also really funny. so what i think we need is a a surveillance operation on ambassador yovanovitch? congressional subpoena of tom he won't answer that at all. steyer who heard the exchange and we know as you were between them on stage. >> still ahead, the impeachment mentioning there were security concerns related to her, trial is just days away. and yet, we are still learning ambassador yovanovitch now saying there's got to be an new details about the effort to investigation into this. we have to look into whether a undermine the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine. u.s. senior diplomate was having we'll run through the latest developments next. on "morning joe." at leaf blowers. possibly both her physical movements and her electronic telephonic communications being monitored. so far no word from the government or the state department about whether they will carry that out. but by all appearances, you you should be mad your neighbor know, there was a lot more going always wants to hang out. on behind the scenes here than we knew about. and you should be mad your smart fridge >> you've been talking to this

guy, hyde, robert hyde. is unnecessarily complicated. how does he fit into this make ice. making ice. picture? he is a guy who has given a lot of money to the republican but you're not mad because you have e*trade party, he has given money to the which isn't complicated. trump campaign and the reelection effort, we know all their tools make trading quicker and simpler of that, but did he depp u so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad get e*trade and start trading advertise himself to lead this surveillance of a united states commission free today. ambassador in ukraine? like where did he come from? >> it's not really clear how he got pulled into this and he also wouldn't answer that question to me last night, but, willie, this kind of fits this pattern of a lot of republicans that we've seen who have ingratiated themselves with the president and in his orbit by making a lot of contributions towards the start of the administration, showing up at events at mar-a-lago and fundraisers, that kind of thing and basically finding their way into this circle in proximity to the don't get mad get e*trade and start trading but he wanted snow for thelace holidays.. president. we know that his congressional campaign the very front page of so we built a snow globe. his website is a big old picture of him with president donald trump. so by all appearances he was i'll get that later. trying to provide some dylan!

but the one thing we could both agree on was getting geico assistance or get involved in what was clearly a top priority to help with homeowners insurance. for the president in hopes of what? switching and saving was really easy! being able to project himself as i love you! a close associate of trump. what? sweetie! hands off the glass. >> and, jonathan lemire, we ugh!! call geico and see how easy saving on homeowners don't know exactly how all the dots connect, but, mika was just and condo insurance can be. i love her! looking at a story that said hyde was at the world series game -- >> he's got this video with kevin mccarthy. >> he has video with kevin mccarthy who of course this round's on me.eat. giuliani's henchman gave kevin hey, can you spot me? mccarthy money for his campaign. giuliani specifically going to come on in. ukraine to dig up dirt on biden find your place today, with silversneakers. and to push out a u.s. included in most medicare advantage plans. ambassador. these guys are over there, the enroll today by calling the number on your screen henchman are over there, hyde is or visit getsilversneakers.com over there and an american ambassador is being tailed by i wanted my hepatitis c gone. i put off treating mine. epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. somebody that appears to be connected to the president's whatever your type, epclusa could be your kind of cure. attorney or at the very least the president's attorney's

i just found out about mine. henchm i knew for years henchmen. i mean, this is -- this is re -- epclusa has a 98% overall cure rate. it is -- this is what they do in i had no symptoms of hepatitis c russia, right? mine caused liver damage. right? is this what they do in russia? epclusa is only one pill, once a day, taken they follow their people in other countries to make sure with or without food for 12 weeks. before starting epclusa, your doctor will test if you they're sufficiently loyal? because if this has happened in have had hepatitis b, which may flare up, and could america before where a cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. president's personal attorney hires henchmen who are now tell your doctor if you have had hepatitis b, other liver or... indicted, of course, i'd like a parallel in american history ...kidney problems, hiv, or other medical conditions... because there is not one. that is important to talk b do ...and all medicines you take, including herbal supplements. you know what's more important, though, a phone call that may taking amiodarone with epclusa may never have happened two years ago. cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. >> when the ambassador testified late last year as part of the common side effects include headache and tiredness. impeachment inquiry she talked about being unsafe, she felt ask your doctor today, threatened, but didn't really if epclusa is your kind of cure. fill in a lot of the details. that's what this does right here. perhaps there was surveillance both electronic and physical on her, which would be unnerving. she was summoned back to the united states, given a warning like you need to get on the next plane back. >> has pompeo said any of this?

has pompeo criticized any of this, about a u.s. ambassador's safety being at risk and being told to get on a plane and go home because she is not safe? has pompeo -- has he spoken out about this incident as well? >> he certainly hasn't spoken about this latest revelations, no. he has been very guarded in what he has said. at times he would back the president rather than sort of state department actors, he would seemingly side with the commander in chief rather than people who work for him in foggy bottom. the other document that's really important here and josh mentioned it is the idea that it's a letter from rudy giuliani saying -- requesting a private meeting with ukraine's president zelensky and saying he was doing so with president trump's, quote, knowledge and consent. which of course undermines what the president has said that giuliani was acting on his own, i didn't order him to go over there or not. that's another piece of crucial information that we are though aware of as the impeachment moves forward. >> let's talk about that letter. it was part of the evidence around 1:00 in -- in the turned over to the house morning, she called me again and impeachment investigators by

lawyers for giuliani's associate she said that there were great lev parnas, it comes as democrats seek to bolster their concerns. there were concerns up the argument that giuliani was trying to dig up dirt on street. and she said i needed to get -- political rival joe biden and come home immediately. the dnc on behalf of the president. in the past president trump has get on the next plane -- um -- tried to distance himself from to the u.s. and i asked her why. giuliani's efforts, saying in november he didn't direct him, and she said she wasn't sure but however, in his letter giuliani writes in part i have a more specific request in my capacity there were concerns about my as personal counsel to president security. i asked her my physical trump and with his knowledge and security? because sometimes washington knows more than we do about consent i request a meeting with you on this upcoming monday, may these things. and she said, no, she hadn't gotten that impression that it 13th, or tuesday, may 14th. was a physical security issue. but they were concerned about my i will need no more than a half hour of your time, giuliani security and i needed to come home right away. wrote to zelensky. the former mayor of new york you know, i argued. this is extremely irregular. city told nbc news that a text message letter, quote, shows unequivocally i was acting in my and no reason given. role as defense counsel seeking but in the end, i -- i did get on the next plane. exculpatory evidence. let's bring in msnbc legal >> that was former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, marie analyst danny savalas. yovanovitch, testifying back in as an attorney on its face what do you make of this letter. november. recalling an unknown concern that had arisen about her >> dear president of spar at that i represent a toga wearing physical security. forcing her to come back to the

private citizen who happens to be the emperor of rome. u.s. could i get a meeting? we now have clarity as to what concern actually was after there are some things wrong with records were turned over this letter and you just mentioned one, too, that rudy yesterday by lev parnas's giuliani is saying that this attorneys. bringing a new figure to the is -- that this is exculpatory spotlight of the ukraine evidence as a defense counsel. scandal. gop candidate for congress in who is saying anyone has indicted the president? isn't that putting the cart connecticut, robert hyde. before the horse? i mean, that alone is a really documents appear to show that hyde was tracking yovanovitch's strange response. that's something a criminal physical movements, along with defense attorney like me would her computer and phone. say that i'm seeking exculpatory the documents also include evidence. whatsapp exchanges from march going back to the left, you 2019 between parnas and hyde know, i made that roman emperor where they appear to be joke but that's almost exactly what rudy giuliani is saying and the mere fact that he takes such discussing yovanovitch. the messages do not mention the pains to say that impacting as ambassador by name. private counsel shows that he is but include links to stories aware that if he was writing on behalf of the president as an about her and were from around the time giuliani was pushing to official request that it would get her fired. be wrong. so even if he is representing they suggest that the president the president as a private had already decided once to individual, what possible remove her but may have changed private business could donald his mind. trump have with the president of however, according to nbc news, ukraine? hyde said he was drinking when could it be that opposition he sent the messages to parnas.

research? well, that doesn't work because that's the exact same thing that in a text to nbc news, hyde attacked house intelligence trump requested in his official committee chair adam schiff in capacity. this letter is a real problem colorful terms. yovanovitch's lawyer is now for giuliani and it's a real calling on authorities to problem for trump because it connects dots that were before investigate whether she was, in somewhat connected but though fact, being monitored. let's bring in national they're really connected. political reporter for nbc news, >> yeah, you point to something important in giuliani's statement yesterday to nbc news josh lederman. >> josh, what can you tell us? where he says the letter shows >> well, this has just been a unequivocally i was acting in my really bizarre turn of events. just when we thought that all the facts had basically come out in the impeachment saga, this role as defense counsel seeking exculpatory evidence. bombshell last night. new text messages. the letter was written in may. even this new character, robert the president wasn't indicted on anything so what did he need to hyde, who we had no idea until show his innocence from i guess last night was even involved in is the question at that time. >> there's nothing that at that any of this. point what exactly -- i've been in addition to those really saying this for many weeks, menacing texts that you were just describing that suggest months. rudy giuliani is likely going to that they might've had eventually be burned by the fact that he's wearing way too many yovanovitch under surveillance. there was also those handwritten hats. in one instance he's defense notes that you showed earlier. counsel, in another instance showi he's representing lev parnas and showing lev parnas, this indicted giuliani associate, basically organizing the plot other folks with interests that they were going to carry out appear to be adverse to not only talking about getting zelensky

the president and the united to announce investigations. states, then he appears to be also, this new, previously some private representative of the state department, then he undisclosed letter from rudy appears to be some kind of giuliani to president zelensky lobbyist. saying he was acting with when you wear that many hats there are too many conflicting trump's knowledge and permission interests which is a huge in trying to seek a meeting with problem, especially for lawyers who have to be aware of and zelensky. and the upshot of this really is avoid not just conflicts of going to be additional pressure interest, but the appearance of on senate republicans and mitch conflicts of interest. this is what may potentially mcconnell in particular to allow bring down rudy in the end is witnesses. that he tried to do too many not to try to shut that down in things at once. the process now that it's clear >> all right. that there are new people, new nbc's josh ledder man and danny events that occurred in this story that house democrats savalas, thank you both for being on this morning. really weren't able to get to a lot going on. coming up, we will talk to two during the house impeachment democratic presidential hearings. candidates on the heels of last >> here's one more thing where, again, people say, well, did night's debate in iowa, pete nancy pelosi hold the articles buttigieg and senator amy too long? klobuchar will both be our think about everything that we have learned. guests this morning. plus another huge story since they have been held. i know she's under pressure by having global ramifications, this is satellite imagery democrats to send them over. i'd like to know why because showing smoke from the deadly this is going to keep coming out. fires in australia spreading >> yep. >> i mean, we're going to keep around the world. we will go live to sydney for the very latest. learning new things like this.

"morning joe" is back in a >> yeah. well as josh said, we didn't moment. the very latest. "morning joe" is back in a moment even know about this character, robert hyde. we didn't know what looks like surveillance of the u.s. ambassador over there. >> from -- from associates of the president's personal lawyer, who was sent to ukraine for this. >> so, josh, you know, obviously these documents provided the house intelligence committee by lev parnas's attorney. they're redacted. yovanovitch's name isn't usedtt a lot of healthy foods are very acidic and they're actually pulling out the minerals from the enamel. i like to recommend pronamel to my patients. pronamel will help they're talking about. so i guess my question to you is, is this what it appears to push the minerals back be? associates of the president's into the enamel to keep the enamel strong. i know it works and i hear nothing but great things personal attorney conducting surveillance on the united from my patients that have switched to it. states ambassador, physical surveillance? >> well, look, if it wasn't that, then there have been ♪ do you recall, not long ago ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ plenty of opportunities for robert hyde to say so. and for others around him and ♪ all around the wind blows parnas to say so. and when i was texting with ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ robert hyde last night, i asked him explicitly. ♪ blow a kiss into the sun so, you know, when you say you were drinking with your buddies

♪ we need someone to lean on when you sent these text messages, are you saying that ♪ blow a kiss into the sun you weren't actually having a ♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ surveillance operation on ambassador yovanovitch? ♪ ♪ he won't answer that at all. and we know, as you were ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪ mentioning, there were security concerns related to her. ambassador yovanovitch now saying there's got to be an to take care of yourself. investigation into this. we got to look into whether a but nature's bounty has innovative ways u.s. senior diplomat was having to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and well-rested. possibly both her physical because hey, movements and her electronic, tomorrow's coming up fast. nature's bounty. because you're better off healthy. telephonic communications being monitored. so far, no word from the government or state department about whether they will carry that out. but by all appearances, you know, there -- there was a lot more going on behind the scenes here than we knew about. >> and there is a whole other part of this story. rudy giuliani's letter requesting a private meeting with ukraine's incoming president. and it all came with donald trump's, quote, knowledge and consent. that new reporting is next on "morning joe."

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bill? karolyn? nope! no, just a couple of rocks. weeks driving around much of new south wales, it's the state that's been hardest hit, and it's catastrophic. download the my account app the forests are gone, they're to manage your appointments making today's xfinity customer service drained of color, they're simple, easy, awesome. i'll pass. drained of life. farmers have lost fields, they've lost livestock. everywhere we go people are telling us that this is the worst they have ever seen it. that the fires have burned more intensely, they've burned more ferociously, they seem to have a mind of their own and it's having the greatest impact on wildlife here. you mentioned the statistic of a billion animals killed. that doesn't include insects or reptiles or bats or any of the other creatures that are crucial to bio diversity here. we spent some time on kangaroo island, that's where an estimated 25,000 koalas have been killed. the problem is that the survivors, the ones who will letter as part of the evidence pull through it despite the turned over to the impeachment injuries, have virtually no investigators by lawyers for

habitat left so the next few giuliani's associate, lev parnas. seems to bolster their argument months will also be telling that giuliani was trying to dig up dirt on political rival joe because they will rely on volunteers to literally biden and the dnc on behalf of the president. hand-feed them until the trees in the past, president trump has tried to distance himself from can regenerate themselves. all across australia there is giuliani's efforts. saying, in november, he didn't this sense that this catastrophe direct him. however, in his letter, giuliani is going to take a long time to writes, in part, i have a more recover from. >> all right. specific request in my capacity nbc's janis mackey frayer, thank you so much. >> an ecological disaster. as personal counsel to president >> heartbreaking. trump and with his knowledge and >> they are going to be feeling consent, i request a meeting for a long time. with you on this upcoming >> and here is a moment in the monday, may 13th, or tuesday, may 14th. australian open where one of the i will need no more than a half hour of your time, giuliani players collapsed reportedly due wrote to zelensky. to the impact on the air told nbc news the letter, quote, quality. shows ungivecally i was acting dalila jakupovic collapsed. i guess could not continue, in my role as defense counsel seeking exculpatory evidence. which is incredible. let's bring in msnbc legal this is really the scope of analyst danny cevallos. this -- of this fire has just gotten to unbelievable -- >> and we will continue with >> dear president of sparta, i that. and when we get to the top represent a toga-wearing private citizen who just happens to be

of the hour can we figure out the emperor of rome. can i get a meeting? what happened to mike there are so many things wrong bloomberg's campaign account on with this letter and you just at which time sthoor there were mentioned one, too, that rudy questions about whether or not giuliani is saying that this he had been hacked. >> was he hacked? >> he was not hacked. is -- that this is exculpatory >> what did they do. >> mike bloomberg was not part evidence as a defense counsel. of the debate last night, he who is saying anyone's indicted didn't try to be because he the president? didn't make the fundraising isn't that putting the cart before the horse? i mean, that alone is a really threshold because he is not accepting any donations, his strange response. that's something a criminal campaign account offered some defense attorney, like me, would say. that i'm seeking exculpatory commentary. mike's house is designed to look evidence. exactly like the interior of the but then going back to the letter, you know, i made that -- millennium falcon. mike has directed more than 50 that roman emperor joke but that's almost exactly what rudy million to combat meatloaf's giuliani is saying. views on climate change. there was this one, test your and the mere fact that he takes critical knowledge, spot the such pains to say that i'm meatball that looks like mike acting as private counsel shows that he's aware that if he was and there is an illustration of a meatball that has mike writing on behalf of the president as an official bloomberg's face on it. request, that it would be wrong. >> obviously he was hacked. >> he wasn't hacked. on his personal account he said so even if he is representing the president as a private now that my campaign has your attention there are serious individual, what possible matters to address. >> this was throughout the evening for two hours to the private business could donald trump have with the president of point where we have reporters ukraine? could it be that opposition sent requests saying what is happening to your twitter research? well, that doesn't work because that's the exact same thing that

account. >> i don't know who is advising him, but, boy, you could not -- trump requested in his official he is the guy that you want to capacity. this letter is a real problem come in on the white horse and be the voice of reason, the for giuliani. and it's a real problem for white of competency. trump because it connects dots that's stunning. >> the meatball didn't even look that were, before, somewhat that much to him. connected but now they're really >> off brand is right. connected. >> well, yeah. you point to something important in giuliani's statement try again. coming up, a big day on capitol hill ahead. yesterday to nbc news where he more on that trove of new says the letter shows evidence in the impeachment case unequivocally, i was acting in as the house prepares to send my role as defense counsel seeking exculpatory evidence. letter was written in may. over those two articles of so from what did he need to be impeachment to the senate. plus, two of the candidates cleared? in other words, the president wasn't indicted on anything. from last night's debate stage, so what did he need to show his former mayor pete buttigieg and innocence from i guess is the question at that time? >> yeah. there's -- there's nothing that, at that point, what exactly -- senator amy klobuchar. i've been saying this for many and claire mccaskill joins the set. "morning joe" is coming right back. weeks, months. set. "morning joe" is coming rit gh back >> man: what's my safelite story? rudy giuliani is likely going to eventually be burned by the fact that he's wearing way too many hats. in one instance, he's defense counsel. in other instance, he's representing lev parnas and other folks with interests that appear to be adverse to not only my truck...is my livelihood. the president and the united

so when my windshield cracked... states. then he appears to be some the experts at safelite autoglass came right to me. private representative of the >> tech: hi, i'm adrian. state department. then he appears to be some kind >> man: thanks for coming. of lobbyist. ...with service i could trust. right, girl? and when you wear that many >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ hats, there are too many conflicting interests, which is a huge problem. especially, for lawyers who have to be aware of and avoid -- not actions speak louder than words. she was a school teacher. just conflicts of interest but my dad joined the navy and helped the appearance of conflicts of interest. prosecute the nazis in nuremberg. this is what may potentially their values are why i walked away from my business, bring down rudy in the end is that he tried to do too many took the giving pledge to give my money to good causes, things at once. >> all right. and why i spent the last ten years nbc's josh lederman and danny fighting corporate insiders who put profits over people. cevallos, thank you both for being on this morning. a lot going on. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. coming up, our second presidential candidate of the because, right now, america needs morning. senator amy klobuchar is standing by. more than words. she joins the conversation next we need action. on "morning joe." i'm your 70lb st. bernard puppy, did you know that every single flush fling odors onto your soft surfaces? then they get released back into the air so you smell them later. ew. right? that's why febreze created small spaces. press firmly and watch it get to work... unlike the leading cone, small spaces continuously eliminates odors

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that i was here -- >> i know you work so hard. >> i do, babe, i do. six i don't know how i do it. but the one day i was off i'm sitting there and when i watch six tv i actually turn the volume biden. steyer. buttigieg. klobuchar. and sanders. off because it really tells you all looking to replace donald trump. more, you don't get distracted by the sound and as far as production goes, so that's how i marooned on a debate stage in do it. des moines, iowa, where they'll and so comes in and it's like a navigate through many challenges. clip like that, top of 6:00 and tweets from dangerous predators. people switching over to disney plus. donald trump is doing this and mind control by mary anne everybody behind him is laughing and i'm like i want to turn the williamson. volume on. and having to answer the this must be funny. question why are grandma and this is amazing. grandpa fighting? and then they cut to "morning six candidates. joe" and there's mika, and then one wolf. too many days until the election. they go to donny deutsch and he survivor iowa. then stay tuned for criminal is like -- and then they go to minds. >> wow. somebody else and shocked and okay. welcome back to "morning joe." stunned and so angry and then live shot of the white house. show another clip and then they 35 past the hour. go back to donald trump and he's we're back with mike barnicle. like -- and everybody is claire mccaskill, and joining laughing behind him. the table, author, columnist, i'm like this is really not hard to figure out. and political analyst, jeff the people around the table are

greenfield. good to have you on board, jeff. we also have someone else with scolds -- everybody that's us. >> who's that? >> with us now from des moines. watching this guy, it's like democratic presidential sinatra at the sands in '65. you said coming on, happy candidate senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. warrior. great -- hello. >> he is having a blast out hello. my gosh. there. >> that's what they're saying. >> i love that clip. that was pretty funny. >> i will say like you have to >> it's pretty good. do ten cycles of dish washes is >> it rang a little true. >> tad bit. tad bit. different than are you better i know we're going to talk a lot off than you were four years about last night. ago, a curious case for but first, wondering, moving reelection. i obviously do not think he's ahead, how you navigate iowa and doing a good job of president. impeachment. i don't think he really enjoys being president. he loves campaigning, it's very >> i have a constitutional duty clear. i think the campaign in '16 for and i am going to perform that a lot of reasons was -- you duty. there can't be anything more know, they basically didn't have any resources. important. i mean, you look at the evidence this is going to be a professional well-run killer you were just talking about that's come out. operation. >> right. it reminds me of, like, these >> with a guy who loves being out there, the show. >> david, you were one of the bumbling watergate burglars few people -- by the way, of course, everybody knows that -- writing things down on hotel i mean, none of us around the notepads and, you know, going table who are laughing are calling her -- i won't say the suggesting that he's done word on tv. anything that is -- i mean, he's wanting to go after ambassador a threat as we said to yovanovitch and the like. i think the evidence is mounting madisonian democracy, he is a and we just want to get our

threat to our standing across the world, but we are just witnesses. i'm going back to washington talking about the difference tonight. and we'll get started on this. between trump is getting -- what and as i said at the debate stage, you know, you -- they want to give the guy a crown, democrats continue to get wrong president trump, and make him stylistically and you look at king. i guess that's what they'll do. the clips and it's happy warrior, but you were one of the but that's not what america wants. america wants a fair trial. very few people in the spring of and at the same time, with iowa, i made my case last night. 2016 that said, this guy could and our campaign is on the rise. win. >> i was wrong by the end for sure, but, yeah, i think that he we're going up in the polls. won the debate, he won two we have doubled our field offices. important debates in that we have a tremendous staff. election, who was the biggest and my case is this, midwest change candidate, a much bigger isn't a fly-over country to me. change election than in any of us thought and who is going to fight for you. i am the one when you look back that's the thing we have to win at the debate who made the this time. last night they're having a practical case to the voters of iowa about why i should be the completely different debate than they will have in the fall, a one to lead the ticket. i've won in the areas that we completely different electorate, a bigger lake effect cat, people need to win. who aren't paying attention right now. rural. suburban. and a lot of people talk about whoever comes off that stage as it but i bring the receipts. our nominee is going to look i've done it. stronger than any of them appear >> so just one more point on they could right now, if you are a democrat that should give you impeachment and actually i'll go to claire and then you can take solace. trump his approval rating would it, amy. suggest a democrat should be but i guess there's talk about

confident. the fact that he has shown no reciprocating witnesses where, you know, both sides can call. what's the process here? interest in blowing his are we going to hear from political base should give you witnesses? confidence, but his ability to register and turn out voters is >> well, sure hope so. going to be historic so >> yeah, amy. don't you think that -- that you democrats will have to hit a guys will end up with four high water mark here. i think that's why there's so republicans that feel the need many people undecided right now to, at a minimum, hear from john bolton? in iowa and elsewhere because >> i do. people are deathly afraid that and you've got mitt romney trump could win reelection and already saying, publicly, he we have to get this right. wants to hear from him. the fluidity in this primary is and some of the other senators fascinating. it's as wide open a race as i've saying they would like to hear from witnesses. seen in my lifetime. >> follow up on what we are and i don't know how just push talking about as far as donald trump actually being the, quote, those witnesses under the rug when, you know, one of them happy warrior, despite the literally was the gatekeeper, politics, despite the insults, i john bolton. says he wants to testify. don't need you telling me on twitter -- not you, but you've got mr. duffey sending everybody else telling me on smoking-gun e-mails about potus twitter how dare you say that. what we're saying here is he holding back the aid. i don't know how you can deny doesn't scowl. he's going out there, he is the senate and the country -- we still having a good time represent the country -- the right to hear from those despite -- despite every witnesses. >> senator klobuchar, willie guardrail he drives through and geist, good to see you this morning. going back to last night's democrats have to understand that and they have to figure out debate where you are in iowa and on the policy question of medicare for all, as you sat and

how to meet him on the listened to bernie sanders and elizabeth warren debate the battlefield, political merits of their plan. they came to you and said what battlefield, and take him on. i saw no evidence last night we need is a plan and not a pipe that anybody up there knew how dream. and you weren't just talking to do that. about how to pay for it, which what about you? is a huge issue obviously. you've done this before. but also, the question of whether or not medicare for all are you there, rev? would ever pass through the united states senate, where you >> i think you hit right on the serve right now. head my concern, joe. how many votes do you think a as i sat there last night here medicare for all would get from democrats right now beyond the in des moines, i couldn't figure out the other debates and i've been to them all, the missing quality is that if you are going to be the next president you've got to take charge and take donald trump on and if you can't take on and take charge in the debate, what gives people the confidence you can do that with donald trump? you really must connect with people, people must know you know and feel what they do, but at the same time you cannot stand up and be just go along to get along and think you are going to be the next president. one thing donald trump and i used to do is both of us would

go to boxing matches. he of course was hosting mike tyson, i was a friend of tyson's and the promoters. you don't become champion by just saying i will get by this round. you have to take the title and i didn't see anybody on the stage last night or in the ring that really said, i'm taking charge, i can be president, i can take on donald trump because he is going to come in with that kind of mindset and i don't see that mindset yet in any of the candidates. >> so in "morning joe" style i like to introduce the guests halfway through -- >> we haven't even talked about the red sox yet. >> yet. >> david, you were senior advisor to former president obama and ran his 2008 campaign. free advice to the candidates who may be watching today, we will have senator klobuchar and mayor buttigieg will be on. how are you looking at this race from where you sit? how should they be going after donald trump? how should they be dealing with

each other. the head line out of last night's debate is bernie and elizabeth went after each other in this story introduced in a warren report, saying women can't win, he denies that report. how should they tweak the way they're handling the president? ? >> their own job is to win the democratic nomination. this is the semi-finals and it's 19 days to iowa. all that matters is are they converting enough iowans. i think the reason the debate last night was so ent jel and the whole race has been gentle is because there's so many democrats who haven't decided who they are voting for so people are afraid of offending somebody, particularly in iowa, where the second choice riyal case because the rules are so important. when democrats get concerned about, you know, sanders and warren last night, i want this race to be tougher, whoever is coming out the other end is facing one of the fiercest political combatant in american political history for trump for all his political weaknesses. how do they take a punch, how do they counterpunch.

this is all about iowa now. i think electability will drive a lot of the decision-making in iowa. i was surprised last night, everybody made their case, i think this he all could have made stronger cases and probably differentiated themselves from the field about why they are the best person to take on trump and give democrats a great victory next november up and down the ballot. it's all about iowa and they have their numbers and they have their data and they understand how this is likely to fall out. the other thing of course is you have plume berg looming out there and bloomberg needs a bunch of things to happen, car crashes in front of him to give him the opportunity to make his case in march. if biden were to actually do well enough in the first three states to actually win south carolina, i think he will be hard to stop, i don't think bloomberg would have much oxygen at that point. >> when you say they should be tougher do you mean on policy? >> they are making their own determination. when democrats watch that debate and say i wish they wouldn't attack each other, this is like child's play so far. let's not worry about that. by the way, when we get down to

two or three candidates in january an march it will get tougher. barack obama was better for the campaign with hillary clinton and he was better for when it got down to the two of them and some of those debates they were throwing hay makers. >> they weren't talking about phone calls that they may have had two years ago. that's what we're talking about. it seemed very small ball. >> well, listen, that was in the news, right, so i think right now what you're seeing is whether it's iowa or new hampshire the democratic candidates know over 50% of the people are going to vote in those contests for caucus are undecided and they're thinking carefully about right now i'm leaning to this candidate but i have to think about who my second or third choice is. what i'm taking out of their performance last night and the tenor of the campaign they were more afraid they will offend people. we remember in 2004, dean and gebhardt were one and two in iowa, they started throwing hay makers at each other and kerry shot up the gap. people are pretty tentative because of the fluidity in the

race. >> foreign policy and trade led the debate with the candidates answering why they feel they are best prepared to be the next commander in chief. >> i am able to work with republicans, i am able to bring people together, to try to create a world where we solve conflicts over the negotiating table not through military efforts. >> i think my record overall, i'm -- everything we've done has been -- i'm prepared to compare it to anybody's on this stage. >> i've been in the u.s. senate for over 12 years and i think what you want in a president is someone who has dealt with these life and death issues and who has made decisions. >> the next president is going to be confronted with national security challenges different in scope and in kind from anything we've seen before. it's going to take a view to the future as well as the readiness to learn from the lessons of the past and for me those lessons of the past are personal.

>> i believe the principal job of the commander in chief is to keep america safe and i think that's about judgment. i think it starts with knowing our military. i sat on the senate armed services committee, i worked with our generals, military leaders, intelligence but i also visit our troops. >> i worked internationally around the world for decades. i traveled, i met with governments, i met with businesses and i understand how america interacts with other countries. i believe that senator warren made a great point, it isn't so much about experience it's about judgment. >> richard, is it not about experience? is it not about experience? >> it's about experience, it's about judgment. what a lost opportunity for all of them to talk about what they might do about iran. forget about the war powers -- do they support authorization to use military force about iran? did they favor going back into the existing arms control agreement, the 2015 agreement, would they favor is new one if

so under what terms. why i hear a lot of talk about north korea last night, didn't hear a lot of talk about china, didn't hear a lot of talk about what to do about putin, what to do about venezuela. this was a 39 minute foreign policy conversation that didn't go anywhere. >> any candidates stand out? >> no. >> did you find any candidate particularly bad and ill suited to be the next commander in chief? >> the trade conversation, bernie sanders basically hasn't found the trade agreement he would support and the conversation on trade for all of them was so negative. as if the issue were still imports replacing american workers. last i checked 90% of the jobs being lost in this country are from technology and productivity improvements. i didn't hear one of the candidates talk about what they were going to do to help american workers to reskill. >> sounded like mayor pete was actually even against some trade agreements. >> didn't hear anyone talk about what they were going to do about china, what about phases two and three, what should we insist on

with china. i actually think, you know, from what i've been saying on this show and elsewhere trump is quite vulnerable on foreign policy but i didn't hear anybody last night essentially exploit his vulnerabilities at all. >> where do we stand right now in the iran situation? much has changed over the past week since soleimani's killing, obviously the iranian people once again protesting against their government after the shooting down of the ukrainian jet. it's a very fluid situation, looks like we are back where we were before the soleimani killing with unrest in the street. >> well, in many ways unrest in the street, i think the administration is counting on regime change, i do not see that in the cards. that's their strategy but i don't believe it's a viable one. we're back to where we were in another way, though, joe, we are now introducing more economic sanctions. we are practicing economic warfare against iran. it's a question of when and not if iran will practice military warfare against us or against our allies.

nothing really -- >> do you think that's what led to the drone strike and the saudi -- and the strike on the saudi oil? >> yes, sir. you can always date history from where you want with the united states and iran you have any number of starting points, but, yes, i would say when we got out of the jcpoa the 2015 nuclear agreement we introduced economic sanctions iran could not respond in kind, they can't economically sanction us, their only set of responses with as to basically put pressure on us and our allies, that's what they did with the tax on tankers, drones, on the saudi oil installations, finally on the base in iraq. >> and donald trump supporters would say now that they are limited in how they can respond militarily after the attack on soleimani. >> the president was way ahead of himself when he said iran is standing down. iran will not do things that we can trace to them when they kill americans but iran will do knots of other things, whether it's cyber or going after the saudis and others that we can prove they did it. this isn't over. >> right. >> this is going to continue. >> you don't think economic

sanctions is the right way to go with iran, how do you get them back to the table? >> i think economic sanctions are part of the pressure the others we ought to put forward a new offer. why don't we say here is the agreement we want you to sign up to, they would have these kinds of limits on nuclear, these kind of limits on missiles, in exchange here is the degree of sanctions relief you can get. the europeans suggested t they basically said we're going to introduce new sanctions against the iranians because of what they're doing. we have partners there, we have to revile multi-lateralism and also repair our relationship with iraq. soleimani wanted the united states out of iraq. why are we allowing him in death to achieve his goal? we should not be sanctioning the iraqis, with he should not be insisting we won't keep our forces there if they don't want us there. we should be repairing that relationship and figure out a way we can deny to iran the biggest prays. >> assad going for a million man march in iraq. >> if richard seems warmed up he

testified before the house foreign affairs committee yesterday on this issue. >> on baseball. >> that is the serious -- you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> i am ashamed but i didn't speak out earlier about all the yankees using steroids to juice themselves to win world series. >> it clearly didn't work if it was to win world series. i'm just saying that. >> the yankees 2009 world series should be stripped because you won it illegally. i don't know how you can sit there with a straight face. >> wow. >> you should be ashamed of yourself. >> we would never steal signs. we would win our world series fair and square and if we stole them we stole them the old fashioned way. >> i cannot agree more to that as a philadelphia phillies fan it was an outrage, we could have won two in a row if not for the cheating. >> exactly. how is that bryce harper trade working on you. >> i'm the biggest bryce harper fan of all time after i hated him when he was a national. >> richard haass, reverend al.

>> rev, what do you recommend these candidates do for the next couple weeks? >> well, i think that the thing that we need to watch for is who has the temperament as well as the talent, driven by good policy and good politics to really move ahead. i think last night there was no real winners which means biden probably won because nothing changed. i think that they missed certain issues. they certainly should have elaborated more on voter suppression because that's the big threat in november is that with this huge turnout that many of us want to see, that they would be able to vote. and how do you in an increase of hate crimes, all these attacks on jews, all these attacks on blacks and others, hate crime didn't even come up. they should have taken charge and brought some of that to the forefront. i'm looking for someone who cannot only stay in the game,

but move ahead of the gang and i think last night we saw people that just didn't want to mess up but they didn't move up, either. >> donny, of presidential candidates and all the campaigns watching. what's your advice over the next couple weeks moving towards iowa? what should their message be? >> i go back to what we talked about in the earlier segment, this is about beating donald trump. that doesn't mean you get up there and you just are welling your hands and calling him names. this is about reminder americans what is at stake here. the basic pillars of our democracy and the dangers, the existential danger of this man and why i as a candidate will stand up on stage toe to toe and take this guy out. and at the same time you looked at trump last night, you called him a happy warrior, like him or not he is entertaining in your living room. none of these candidates last night do you want to invite them into your living room for the next four years. start to show me some of the blood, start to show me some of

the humanity, be authentic and real. >> is it at the end who can beat trump? >> i do listen to trump and wonder if i have to be getting a better shower every day. i didn't know this was a crisis. again, this is not about making a case to general election voters, it's not about making cases to democrats over around the country, it's about making them to iowa. in iowa electability will drive this. big question in iowa is what's the turnout going to be and who is going to bring new people to the party? i think that's really the -- what's fascinating about iowa is somebody could break out like kerry did and win this comfortably. we won this '08 against clinton by eight points. you could have four candidates within five or six points of each other. at the end of the day you want to close strong and i think the person who somebody leaves an event in waterloo and cedar rapids and says that's the person who can take on trump. i agree with basically all of them on issues with various differences, that person i want to see in the ring, that person will probably win the iowa

caucus. >> karine, that's what it comes down to, who they believe can beat donald trump. >> who they believe can beat donald trump and i think as i was thinking about the general election, i think plouffe made a good point about iowa and the next four states. you also need a movement. you have to be able to, yes, beat donald trump but bring people into who else -- how can you grow the base? how can you bring people in and that's the thing whoever is the nominee is going to be able to do, how do you build that movement, how do you grow the base and also how do you beat donald trump? it's a lot. >> david, i was going to ask, i mean, you know, it's always head versus heart for voters, okay, so you have a calculation, who can beat donald trump, who moves me. joe biden a lot of people are thinking he can beat donald trump, joe biden doesn't move a lot of people, doesn't excite a lot of people. other than mika. she thinks he's like -- >> this is overstated.

>> but iowa, though, usually goes with its heart. i mean, i guess you could say with kerry they went with kerry in '04 instead of going with howard, but -- >> yeah. >> but what do you see? doesn't iowa usually break with their heart going after the movement? >> i think it's going to be a blend this time. i would be concerned if biden -- if turnout in iowa goes north of 250,000 caucus attenders, is he bringing those people out or are they coming out for bernie or mayor pete. he has to worry about that. what's interesting about this race is, again, the fluidity of it, but i think that, yes, i think democrats want to fall in love, but the threat of donald trump is so severe they just don't want to get this wrong. >> they will take ang arranged marriage. >> they will take an arranged marriage. >> this year. >> who can beat him in a debate in hillary clinton won all three debates by every statistical measure.

it's somebody who can get a 19-year-old registered and voting. bring back obama trump voters. trump's turnout is going to be astronomical. we need to meet that. the math is the math. andrew yang talks about math. the math in the battle ground states is what it is. we will have to put it together, turnout, register, win back swing voters. i don't see that on any of the candidates on the stage. our nominee has to be somebody who can do a bunch of different things well not just one or two parts of the coalition. >> we want to mention that david is now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst. >> that's great. >> he has not one but two books coming out in march "a citizen's guide to beating donald trump" and "ripples of hope: your guide to electing a new president." congratulations. look forward to both of them. >> glad they're over. enjoyed writing them. >> i can understand. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," when the primary process is said and done do democrats have reason to hope for a happy

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if there's anyone who gained from this it would be anybody who is running for president that's not in the u.s. senate. with iowa quickly upon us in early february, those four senators who are running for president will now no longer have a voice. if you look at the true political nature of why, to harm one campaign and give a benefit to another. the only rightful thing of joe biden is to make a pledge not to campaign while bernie sanders cannot. >> no.

no. >> i've gotten more laughs -- >> oh, my god. >> then i get usually on the scripted 30 minutes. >> joe biden must have thought seriously about what kevin mccarthy just said. >> you know, mccarthy always has been for ethics in government. he was the one after all that told the republican caucus back in 2016 that donald trump took money from vladimir putin. >> you're right. >> he is a reformer. >> yeah. >> keep your eyes on that kid. >> he's got talent. >> may i suggest as someone who did summer stock as a child he could use some acting lessons. >> they really could. >> try the williams town theater festival. he should work as an apprentice. work on sounding heartfelt. joining us now former u.s. senator now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill, pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene

robinson. >> clair, we haven't had a chance to talk about the chiefs. >> how about my chiefs. >> so much fun. you know, i've been to a lot of chiefs games over the years, i am so glad i was at that game because it was electric and dynamic and fun and history making and now i think we have the momentum i think we will beat the titans even though tannehill has been a pretty good journey man quarterback and that henry is like trying to tackle a bus. >> you have the single most exciting player in the national football league. >> he is so great and we will have our big lineman back next week because jones will be back. i think we will whe super bowl. >> down 24-0, did you think it was over? >> i want to tell you the truth, down 24-0 i was with my son, i was very worried about his mental health because he is a crazy chiefs fan and i was worried he would spiral into a depression and i was also thinking, okay, now i don't have

to worry about the iowa caucuses being the day after the super bowl, but that went away when we had the run back and then all of a sudden we put 21 points on the board in three minutes or something like that. >> so let me set you up to knock us down, barnicle and i, to hurt barnicle and i. what do you think about houston? what do you think about cora? and what do you think in general about stealing signs in baseball? >> i actually don't think the penalty was strong enough. i do not think someone should hold on to a world series title when it was obvious the entire organization was part of cheating. >> are you confident that the st. louis cardinals have never stolen signs? >> you know, listen, i'm not going to get into that. >> no, you have to get into that. you're saying stripping world series. are you confident, are you going to sit there on your high horse -- >> yes, i am. >> -- and say you should strip -- so does this mean the st. louis cardinals should be stripped of all world series where it's proven that they stole signs? >> let me say this, if the

cardinals went so far to install digital devices in their bullpen and digital devices in their dugout and were banging on trash cans, then, yes, because that means the entire organization bought into the ethos of cheating. >> thank you. >> i will just note that the washington nationals world series victory in 2019 is untainted by allegations of sign stealing. >> so far. >> question for senator mccaskill. >> yes. >> where did jeff luna work before he went to work before the astros. >> no question he did work for the cardinals, by the way, that was an ugly episode, but it wasn't -- it wasn't organization-wide. this was organization-wide. everybody in the dugout knew it was going on, everybody who worked on that team knew it was going on. >> it makes me sad. >> i think the punishment does not fit the crime. >> you cannot -- >> it makes me sad.

>> i'm just glad my yankees win the old-fashioned way. >> gand getting them all juiced up. >> nobody has a right to be self-righteous here. >> at least a little. >> no. sorry. sorry. >> just a little. >> nobody does. >> just a little. come on. >> i'm going to watch them all in spring training and be very excited, watch the astros and watch -- >> watch the cardinals. >> cardinals are amazing, their organization is amazing. >> we need to do a show from down there. >> we really do. you talk about the best organization, outside of, of course, the boston organization. >> thank you. >> the cardinals organization is just incredible. so gene. >> yeah. >> we are all negative about the debate last night, you, though, saw a reason to be hopeful. >> yeah, to a point. to a point. >> okay. >> you know, what i saw as david

plouffe said earlier, i did see a bunch of candidates who were really not taking roundhouse swings at each other, it was -- it was very polite, actually, and when bernie sanders and elizabeth warren had the opportunity to really go at it, they declined. it may all be about iowa and not offending voters, but, you know, what the democratic party -- this is sort of a baseline requirement for beating trump, i think, they need to come out of their convention with unity among the seven candidates -- >> -- last night that can take on donald trump? >> well, there is that question. i think from last night's performance i think the closest you saw was joe biden. >> yeah, and i don't think last

night was your -- >> and the reason is that i don't think -- i didn't see anybody else who made that sort of connection, who sort of humanized himself or herself in a way to make a connection than biden did when he talked about trump going after his family that way, when he -- when he was just being kind of joe. i thought he did make that kind of almost happy warrior connection, which is more than i can say really for the others on the stage who played it so safe that they weren't coming through the screen. >> do you know who i always hear about after every debate from somebody, i hear about -- andami hear about mayor pete and they seem to connect on a personal level. >> or they impress. >> or they impress.

>> yeah. >> you know, mayor pete, of course -- >> impresses. >> -- impresses, he just seems to be on top of the issues more than anybody else, but i will say amy klobuchar last night had the discipline to always bring it back to donald trump. you worked with her, right? she is a prosecutor. and i have to say she would probably answer my questions about the twins far better than you answered the questions about the cardinals. she is impressive. >> are you kidding me? >> she's leaving now. >> no, i'm not leaving. >> amy, though, they impressive, mayor pete very impressive. >> amy's calculus last night was different than the others on the stage. in the iowa caucuses you have to remember you have to get to 15% in the room or you're done in each individual caucus. so amy has not gotten to 15% or even really close to 15%. >> why is that? >> i honestly don't know. it's one of those head

scratchers because i think she has performed very well in thes. o-irds of the democrats in

the senate are not on his bill. and that's because they've read it. that's because they understand that it would mean that 149 million americans would be kicked off their current insurance. and so what my point to him last night was this isn't real. let's start talking about what the people of iowa and the people of america want to talk about. what can we do to make the affordable care act better? public option. what can we do to take on pharma? i've got tons of ideas and could get them done as president. and what can we do to do something about this looming problem of long-term care and addiction and mental health? that's what i hear out there. i'm the one that's come out front with big policies in these areas and deadlines. and i'm glad i had a chance to talk about it. i've been surprised this morning, early here just talking to people. and they are saying thanks for talking about long-term care. that's what i'm dealing with, with my mom.

>>atou can beat republicans. you can win in the midwest. but let's talk about white guys. white guys who voted for trump. what are you going to say to white guys if you are the nominee? what's your pitch? >> well, my pitch is that i'm someone that gets things done. i have always done very, very well with male voters. regardless of color. and i have brought them with me in every election. in fact, the one poll we have on me in a state where people know me, i beat donald trump. this is a public poll. by 17 points. i beat him with men. i do better with men when people know me than joe biden. and i think part of this is that it's straight talk. i've always said, and i know we had this exchange between my two colleagues that you were discussing earlier about whatever happened to that meeting that i wasn't invited to. but what i wanted to add last night was this. yeah. it's tough to be a woman running for president. we know that. there's double standards.

i've said that on the debate stage. but whatever that standard is, i will meet it. and i will win not just with women but with men. and what we really should be focused on is who is the best person who can bring people in to actually beat him and beat him big? and when you look at my records, i have beat men, republican men, every single time by big margins. and every single one of them have left politics for good. >> jeff greenfield is here and has a question for you. >> good morning, senator. back to impeachment and you will have to forgive the cynic in me. people talk about we need a fair trial. we need witnesses. but i would bet my entire net worth or what's left of it that at the end of the day, you will vote to convict. and indeed i think i can go down the entire list of 100 senators and with absolute confidence know, in advance, or at least 90, if not 95, of them are going to vote. so how do you -- how do you have this process and convince the public at large that this is nothing more than a partisan battle?

>> well, you know, claire is a former prosecutor just like me. and while a lot of people can go into things with preconceptions, things change. evidence comes out. people listen to it. they come to a different conclusion. i'm one of the people that have said that i believe this is an impeachable conduct. and that the house should have gone forward. but that i want to look at the evidence on both counts. right now, if you just said what do you think? yeah, i think there's a lot of evidence there to impeach him. but i actually do want to look at it. and my hope is that if they actually allow some of this evidence in, if some of these people are allowed to testify, we don't even know what they're going to say from the house. who knows what will happen? i just don't think you can say that. that is the nature of trials. weird things come out. evidence comes out. as long as you have a fair trial. >> all right, senator amy klobuchar, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> lot of people would not have guessed that one of rudy's

henchman would have written down -- >> make sure zelensky holds press conference. >> get zelensky to announce that the biden case will be investigated. doh, as homer simpson might say. so, jeff, what should iowa voters take away from the debate last night? >> i don't know what they can take away from it. i mean, i thought there was an amazingly exciting event last night but it was the jeopardy greatest of all time tournament, which was genuinely interesting and competitive. i think after a year of this, it sounds almost more like a series of recitations. and the fact that what it came down to was did or did not bernie sanders shake elizabeth warren's hand tells you something about it. i do think we're going to find out whether or not the issue of trump's vulnerability and who can best exploit that, whether that's going to be the deciding premise or whether or not people

are going to vote more on what they -- what they want or dream of as policies. my other thing is living in california and watching steyer and particularly mike bloomberg on air all the time. i'm wondering whether we're going to get out of this process realizing that the whole last year has been essentially irrelevant if there is a split verdict. >> so let me ask you as a california resident. so glad you brought that up. i -- i -- you never really know. i'd have friends running for office. i'd fly into their home state. i'd check into the hotel. i'd turn on the tv. and after about five minutes of watching ads, i was like, oh, okay. that's what this race is boiling down to. you don't know until you're there. we've been talking for some time about maybe it's a jump for south carolina and bloomberg's advertising everywhere. what's it look like now in california? have you seen any other ads than the billionaires' ads? >> i've seen steyer and bloomberg and that's it because nobody really is focusing on -- >> can't afford it either, can

they in. >> and that's -- when i watch the analysis of the debate and people pick on every moment like it's a round-by-round, you know, middleweight championship fight. and i'm thinking we have never seen a presidential race where somebody is coming in with the resources bloomberg has and unlike steyer with some credibility. the guy ran the biggest city in america for 12 years. that's -- so that credential alone may -- may cause people to say, you know what, i've seen these guys for a year. i'm looking to something else. i can't tell you what's going to happen. >> so, claire -- excuse me -- what do you do as a candidate on the ballot when you're confronted with this ocean of money? >> you don't have to have the most money. you have to have enough money. and i can give you all kinds of examples from linda mcmann to meg whitman, who have spent an incredible amount of money on traditional advertising. and i would say, now more than

ever in the history of modern-american politics, traditional advertising is not as effective. most voters, if you get 'em in a focus group, they'll say they don't believe any of it. so it is a different kind of campaign today. >> by the way, that -- that -- that -- in 2016, i know a lot of us that have -- it's a 30-second ad. donald trump, one more political truth that donald trump just tore to shreds. it's just not the case anymore, is it? >> yeah. no. it's not just about paid marketing and donald trump's good at that. but it's about on the ground field. and field requires volunteers. >> except in states like california and texas and these super-tuesday states. you just can't get on the ground fast enough, can you? >> there's not enough time because there's only like three days between south carolina and super-tuesday. but for those candidates who've managed to attract volunteers and are doing some of the field

work, field has become way more important in this day of segmented media. >> and trump has -- sorry -- bloomberg has hundreds of people in the super-tuesday states who have been at work for weeks, if not months. it's not just the paid advertising. they're all over the place because he's got the money to do everything at once. and that's what we've never seen before. >> let me ask really quickly. we have to go but you have obviously been following this for a very long time. and of course, we all grew up reading teddy white books. and new hampshire has always held this special place in our heart. and you can see the snow falling. you know, and -- and -- the -- the scene that white sets up. of course, jimmy carter, in '76, made iowa a very special place. but when is the democratic party going to move away from the wide whitest states in america as their first two contests? >> this -- this may be the year when they finally say, you know what, this is ridiculous. >> because it is ridiculous. >> the turnout in the iowa

caucuses is minuscule because most midwesterners are smart enough not to go out on a freezing january night and spend three hours in an overheated school cafeteria. i think if the iowa caucuses in particular get blown out as this overhyped event, mike bloomberg's money will have been well spent. >> all right. >> i mean but i do think, though, again, for such a diverse party, having everybody talk for two years about the first two contests in two white states. i mean, that's -- >> the people in iowa would tell you -- >> the demographics are like -- >> the people in iowa would tell you, though, the democratic party has not nominated a white male since 2004. so clearly, the democratic party is, in fact, embracing candidates like braqarack obamad hilary clintonee us go to a rotating system where

the first four states rotate who's first. >> that would really make sense. or >> yes. >> he goes to santa barbara so you don't have to. >> yes. up next, did rudy giuliani change? or did america? writer jonathan mueller is here with his new profile on the once-acclaimed former mayor. and if you're in new york city, you can catch joe's band tonight at prohibition. claire, you coming? the show kicks off around 7:30. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. sometimes, the pressures of today's world can make it tough to take care of yourself. but nature's bounty has innovative ways to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and well-rested. because hey, tomorrow's coming up fast. nature's bounty. because you're better off healthy. this round's on me.eat. nature's bounty. hey, can you spot me?

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rudy, i don't know -- i know he was going to go to ukraine and i think he cancelled a trip. but rudy has other clients other than me. >> you didn't direct him to go there on your behalf? >> no. no. but you have to understand, rudy is a great corruption fighter. he felt personally insulted by what happened during my campaign, because there were bad things happening. >> giuliani is your personal la t go to ukraine, put any heat on him? >> no, i didn't direct him. but he's a warrior, rudy's a warrior. i think he's done work in ukraine for years. >> donald trump. an exceptionally bad liar. >> the worst. >> he doesn't even try. >> it turns out that perhaps president trump did know what his personal attorney was up to.

yesterday house democrats released new records showing that rudy giuliani wrote a letter requesting a private meeting with then ukrainian president-elect volodymyr zelensky with the president's, quote, knowledge and consent. joining us staff writer for the "new york times" magazine jonathan mueller. out this morning with a new piece entitled "the fog of rudy, did he change or did america?" ? great question. >> what's the answer to that question? >> probably both. >> more that america -- more than we changed. basically the idea is that rudy -- rudy has really kind of always been this guy. it's just that now, other the past couple years, with attorney-client privilege, the protection of attorney/client privilege with the blessing of the united states he could do whatever he wanted. that's what we got the opportunity to watch him do over

the past couple years. >> so who is this guy? is this guy, the famous quote, a small man in search of a large balcony. >> the jimmy breslin line -- >> yeah. >> yeah. to people who have kind of followed him over the years in new york, what we've seen over the past couple of years is familiar. he's always been this guy who practiced politics in a very different key. in kind of a more brazen -- took a more brazen approach, sort of a shameless approach is probably the best phrase for it. and he was the guy who was really at the intersection of shamelessness and shame. so he was himself shameless, but he loved to shame other people. that's just always been his m.o. and that's what we saw with biden. he was out there -- putting himself out there in a way that you can't imagine someone who could experience shame would be willing to do. and yet, at the same time, he

understood the power of shame and was trying to humiliate joe biden. that's basically what we saw. and it's what we saw when he was mayor as well. >> let me ask you a question i haven't heard a good answer for. as rudy giuliani travels the world on these adventures on behalf of president trump and he's in ukraine suddenly concerned about corruption in ukraine, who pays for all that? is there any taxpayer money coming in? who's paying for the flight, the hotel, the time he spends traveling the world? >> this is all information we're going to hopefully get in the coming months because i don't think we have an answer to that question. he is working for the president pro bono. >> right. >> which in and of itself is an ethics -- probably an ethics violation. >> yeah. it's definitely a federal election violation. >> it's not what the clinton lawyers did. >> he's not working on rudy's

divorce -- i mean the president's divorce or will. he's working on his political campaign. you can't do pro bono work for a federal candidate. it's illegal. >> every hour he spents working for the president should be reported as a gift. >> and he's way over the limit. >> that's for sure. >> i have not read the piece yet, i'm looking forward to reading the piece. but the roots of rudy's paranoia seem to run deep. i can recall when bill braton was police commissioner in new york and rudy was inflamed because braton was on the cover of magazines, a. now is it now pronounced? >> that's right. he wanted to be on center stage. even when he was the u.s. attorney for the southern district in new york, which had -- before his time had been publicity adverse. he sort of famously had press

conferences all the time to announce his latest indictment. he becomes mayor and now the cameras are following him all the time and we were treated to not only his political life but his personal life. and he's just always wanted to be the center of attention. that's certainly why he went back to work for the president as his personal lawyer. it was a chance to get back in the game. >> when he was mayor of new york city, did he have any time for donald trump? >> you know, trump did donate modestly to his first mayoral campaign, $3,000 i think it was. and he had to meet with him from time to time just over zoning issues, and, you know, tax issues, tax break issues. but he -- they were not close. i think there's a little bit of a misperpception that they're od friends. >> even during the campaign rudy irritated donald. >> he did. >> because rudy took his time

and we'd have him on the show and he was not -- he certainly was not in trump's camp. he was sitting and waiting. >> yeah. >> so let me ask you the question a lot of people who supported rudy when he was mayor, a lot of democrats who supported rudy when he was mayor, how do you square this portrait of rudy giuliani with a guy on the cover of time magazine as america's mayor. the guy who if you came to new york city in 1991 and came back to new york city in 1995, the guy who oversaw remarkable transformation of the city. and again, you would hear that, not from republican right wingers or people in manhattan institute. you'd hear it from democrats who told me time and time again, i can take my family to the theatre and not worry about being urinated on or stabbed. i heard it all the time as an

outsider. >> that's fair. it's important to remember, though, that rudy served two terms. the first was an overwhelming success. that's the period when crime went down. though it did start to go down under dinkin, so the whole kind of -- the true story of the decline of crime in new york city is more complicated than rudy giuliani was elected mayor and crime -- >> right. >> -- disappeared. >> right. >> so it's -- you know, though certainly he deserves some credit. but it was during his second term he became unpopular, all of the tabloid scandals of his personal life. you may remember when he tried to kick the brooklyn museum out of city building because he didn't approve of a painting of the virgin mary they were going to exhibit. and his popularity was way, way down before 9/11. >> right. >> but certainly it's true. after 9/11, he was an enormously

inspired figured, and i was moved by him as well as others. >> thank you, jonathan. >> about an hour from now speaker nancy pelosi is expected to announce the impeachment managers. and around 12:30 today the house is expected to vote to send over the articles of impeachment. what can we expect the first hour? >> we'll do special coverage at 10:00 and then again around the vote, early afternoon. i think you're going to see adam schiff in charge. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie rhule picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm stephanie rhule. it's wednesday, january 15th, and there is a lot happening today. it is a big one. we will watch historic images play out in the halls of congress. a consider owe graphed series of steps that begin one hour from

now. that is when house speaker nancy pelosi will name the impeachment managers who will present the case against president donald j. trump at the senate trial. shortly after noon we expect the first house votes to officially approve the managers and send the articles to the senate. and then, as the sun sets, the articles of impeachment will be physically walked over to the upper chamber. setting the stage for the trial of president donald trump.