this will draw voters to more leather service and noaa. moderate candidates or even to what end? someone like president trump. this is only going the hurt >> and of course, there's tom nothing good can come of that. steyer, just wanting to say hi. and that told me that there's >> and sanders waving him off. going the be a crisis and >> nice to see you, as always.a. there's going to be no reason reading axios a.m. in a bit. for people to believe the ymin vossoughian president and here we are. alongsides ayman mohyeldin. >> and that's right, jonathan "morning joe" starts right now. lamere, all those years of lies what conversations have you lead us to a place like the had with lev parnas and igor fruman? >> i don't know those gentlemen. killing of general soleimani and >> he knew exactly he we were, the justification for that killing when the american people who i was especially because i hear that there was an imminent interacted with him at a lot of threat, they raise their eyebrow events. >> did you ever talk to this guy and say, wait a minute, from lev parnas or whoever his name this administration, i'm not is? >> you know, it's possible, but sure we're going to take that at i haven't gone through all of my face value. phone records. obviously in the press we're not going to take it as face value. i don't really recall. >> do you know congressman devin but the american public say wait nunes. >> yes, i do. >> concerning joe biden and his a minute, they have lied to us son hunter trump told zelensky, again and again. >> the white house has an "whatever you can do with the extreme credible problem on attorney general would be matters both small and big. great." >> mr. barr, i told him sharise, you've talked about the challenges that we in the press everything. he knows everything. who cover the white house have i mean, it's impossible. sifting through the lies. what toll does this take on the >> i never discussed the issue -- the ish a you of the bidens with president zelensky. public?

obviously, people have the rights to their own opinions. they shouldn't have the rights >> vice president pence tasked to their own set of facts. at that meeting getting president zelensky to announce and it seems like that's where we are right now where there's investigations of joe biden team red, team blue. how does the -- with the white specifically? >> yes. good morning, welcome to house just being a steady stream "morning joe." january 16th. of disinformation and sometimes along with joe, willie and me, a little tired this morning. outright lies, what sort of toll we have donny deutsch here who does that take on the public and matched his classes with his how do we get back to where we outfit. washington anchor for bbc world can agree on a common truth? news america katty kay. >> that's the biggest white house reporter for consequence of all of this. we deserve a government that associated press jonathan lemire and former chief of staff at the tells us the truth. it's our government. and americans have to take the cia and department of defense lead on this. the news media cannot. nbc news national security because, you know, there are analyst jeremy bash. enough media outlets who are also with us, historian and happy to play to one side or the other and they don't really care author of "the soul of america" about with what actually is going on. it's going be up to the american and rodgers professor and public. i mean, you know, i made the vanderbilt university, jon people upp. nbc news and msnbc contributor. example of what would you feel >> i don't know. if your mayor lied to you on a i'm trying to remember the last time that an interview revealed daily basis about town business? he would be gone. as much as rachel maddow's the person would be, removed, interview last night revealed.

recalled, probably thrown in >> whoa. >> and actually moved a story of jail, yet this happens at the highest office in the country? that's on us. national and international significance as much as that that's on everyone. interview did. >> i -- i -- it was that's on us as americans. after nixon, there were a bunch of reforms, but the biggest breathtaking. what was revealed in the reform was the idea that truth interview. and you could see, willie, even matters, that you can't lie to devin nunes. everybody knew he was lying, the public and maybe we'll get that he was being a liar when he said he didn't know who lev was, and even last night i think it was he had to go out and admit, there after this presidency. i don't know. oh, yes. i do remember now. they all -- they all know him. >> we see what the president's all had pictures with him. secretaries say on air. is there ever a wink or an eye apparently the vice president of roll with you guys, is there an exchange back and forth or do the united states caught lying. the president caught lying. they even off camera look you in the attorney general, all of them, caught lying, and my only the eye and continue with it or thought -- my only thought was -- i mean -- this -- i just is there an acknowledgement off-the-cuff? >> there's an acknowledgement. that's part of the problem. this presidency produces more want to say to politicians out content per hour than any there. this is why it's important to previous previoussy, probably have an inner voice. going back to -- i don't know, where you can tune everybody

world war ii. and it's easy to produce tons of copy. out. it's easy to produce tons of nancy pelosi holding up the news items. it's easy to fill hours of cable articles of impeachment for as long as she did reveals -- has programming given this president. revealed so much in that time that's part of what we give as reporters who cover the white when republicans were try -- and house is, yeah, okay, a lot of right-wing trumpists were trying my colleagues say this is the most accessible white house and to pressure her and saying, oh, i have a problem with that this is the worst thing ever. because you have access to even democrats last week start disinformation and sometimes straight up lies. how are you serving your whines about, oh -- >> let's go. audience when that is what >> send them over here. you're giving them? no. i mean, if i have any criticism of nancy, should have held them >> thank you so much for coming a couple more weeks, because the space she has created. and katy kay, it's interesting we didn't even know john bolton was going to testify until nancy listening to this conversation, many of them that we've had today and over the many months, sometimes you have to remind pelosi gave this process time to yourself that you're talking about the united states of breathe. of course they wanted to get the articles of impeachment, willie, america. >> yeah. because they wanted to kill and that you're not talking them. they wanted to club them like about some country around the world that the u.s. has spent baby seals, and get rid of them years criticizing for the kinds of behavior, whether it's rule

immediately. >> get rid of them quickly. of law or transparency or doing >> wipe them to the side and move on and pretend this never things the right way. the whole conversation that we have had this morning about happened. well, this happened and lat ukraine is exactly the opposite night yet another explosion. of the kinds of things that >> the position the republicans america has said to countries and the senate have taken there that they should be doing, won't be new witnesses is trying to pressure them to do completely untenable after you america's bidding for political listened to that interview with lev parnas. reasons. that's exactly what america has it was already untenable, because john bolton wants to always said it doesn't want. testify and other key witnesses. but you know what they always if you're actually interested in say, you tell one lie, that's a finding out what happened and finding the truth. which apparently they're not. problem. lev parnas laid out chapter and you tell a hundred people, their verse what happened. eyes glaze over and you think and you'd be trite have a little you can get away with it. later today, senators become skepticism of lev parnas, because of who he sand the way jurors and a key group of house democrats become prosecutors. he as we approach the trial phase he's operated but most of what he said last night to rachel of donald trump's impeachment. as we go to break, here is a maddow. extraordinary interview. look at the latest issue of time rachel imminently prepared ready magazine, this week's cover is for every twist and turn he entitled "the family business" brought her on is confirmed by testimony and documents that the unusual power of jared we've seen and heard over the last couple of years in this -- kushner. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. kushner. "morning joe" is back in two excuse me, in the last couple of minutes. months through the impeachment hearings. so on his own you might go, wait a minute. this guy's a shady figure,

except for the fact that most of what he said last night has already been confirmed by other witnesses and by documents. >> and isn't it something. you go back to what the whistle-blower said. of course, republicans are stilg saying they want the whistle-blower. the whistle-blower basically said donald trump had a bad haircut. nothing compared with what heave learned since then. i remember thinking about things i did everything's been confirmed plus and wondering if that was the last time i was going to do that thing. and puts republicans in a terrible position. my gosh. susan collins. coming to the cancer treatment centers of america, how embarrassing. i felt so -- i actually was they treat the whole person. embarrassed for her, that she everything is here. imaging, infusion... would humiliate herself so much to say, oh, we don't need i don't have to go anywhere else. anymore witnesses. they care about me as a person beyond just well -- and if the house had being a cancer patient. been doing their job they would they're my second family. have gotten this information -- it just came out. >> uh-huh. >> i don't think susan collins is stupid. i think acting in supreme bad faith. if she thinks the people of

maine are going to re-elect her acting like that, it's -- it's really -- it's shocking. let's go to the white house. jonathan lemire is there. we'll show this later. i don't want to embarrass her this early in the morning. let's go to jonathan lemire. jonathan, any response last night from the extraordinary bombshell interview on rachel maddow's show? >> not much response from the white house. i anticipate we'll get that as the day goes on. you're right. keep an eye on lev parnas. under indictment. there are questions about his credibility. keep that as a backdrop here. the evidence is extraordinary and highlighted a number of lies. first said everything he did, he and rudy giuliani was doing was under direction of the president. the president was completely aware of this movements in ukraine and the pressure campaign there. yes, as you said. vice president pence explicitly did not go to ukraine's zelensky

inauguration because is a lezel didn't announce an investigation into joe biden. and not only interested in interruption in ukraine but >> he knows who er. digging out dirt of the bidens >> did you ever talk to this at the thrust of all this and of guy, lev parnas? course connections with devin nunes who played a key role in >> it's possible. the impeachment inquiry and but i haven't gone through my parnas said he couldn't believe phone records. he was up there participating in i don't recall. >> politico was told yesterday this historic event in the role he was playing in trying to dig that barr was never asked to up dirt on the bidens and launch any type of investigation pressuring ukraine. already a tense day here at the into biden. white house. >> mr. barr had to have known the president watched some of the proceedings yesterday as the everything. articles of impeachment were it's impossible. >> i never discussed the issue of the bidens with president transmitted. walked over in that ceremony to the senate. zelensky. we anticipate he has a >> vice president pence was tasked at that meeting with getting president zelensky to relatively light public schedule and sure he'll be watching what announce investigations of joe biden specifically? happens toes when john reports >> yes. is sworn in and so on. >> lev talks. much as he can convince himself good morning, it is january he can win politically on

impeachment had pains him. 16th. along with joe, willie and me, first line of his obituary, we're a little tired this morning. we have donnie deutsch here. third president to be impeached's one of his closest washington anchor for bbc america caddie kay. aides put to me, he's in a very controll jonathan lamere and former chief of staff at the cia, national controlled -- >> has the white house security analyst jeremy bash. also with us, historian and acknowledged he's kbrupside-down author of "the soul of america" just about every impeachment and rogers professor of the poll. majority of americans want him presidency at vanderbilt university, jon meacham. impeached and removed. >> so i don't know, i'm trying to remember the last time that overwhelming majority of americans want to hear witnesses and call his moscow mitch an interview revealed as much as actually trying to make a sham trial out of this as much as vladimir putin is trying to make rachel maddow's interview a sham out of the electoral revealed last night and moved a process in russia. story of national and has the president acknowledged international significance as much as that interview did. that not only is it nancy pelosi and the democrats who have it was breath taking what was revealed in the interview.

pushed this, this far, but also and you could see, willie, even that the majority of americans devon nunes, everyone knew that actually support what they're he was lying when he said he doing? >> right. didn't know who lev was. i'll give you positive spin and even last night, i think it first and then hard numbers. they point, the campaign points was, he had to go out and admit, to internals they have among oh, yes, i do remember now. independents, particularly those they all know him. in key rust belt states shows they've all had their pictures independents are weary as of a few weeks ago weary of with him. apparently the vice president of impeachment and turned off by the united states caught lying, the process and it wouldn't change their vote one way or the the president caught lying, the attorney general, all of them other. however, in the building behind caught lying. and my only thought was i mean, me they see the numbers do support impeachment. a more robust process, hearing from witnesses as you said. this is -- i just want to say to the president's also concerned how the next few weeks play out. politicians out there, this is if there are enough republican senators who break ranks and vote to allow witnesses will extend the trial further. why it's important to have a already a two to three-week inner voet voice where you can trial almost still going on as tune everybody out. the president gives state of the nancy pelosi holding up the union first week of february at the capitol. articles of impeachment for as a tough backdrop for him to long as she did. navigate. whether a couple of weeks or reveals -- has revealed so much witnesses that are longer, this

dominates television. in that time when ring wing wall-to-wall coverage on every network and the president is trumpists were trying to concerned how this plays. pressure here and saying, oh, this is the worst thing ever. why he and his allies are pushing for trump-friendly even democrats last week started whining about, no, send them witnesses up there. no reason for hunter biden or over here. the whistle-blower to appear >> if i have any criticism of before congress but the nancy, i think she should've president is, it's of great held them for a couple more concern, we know how worried weeks. the space that she has about tv coverage and televised created -- we didn't even know images. john bolton was going to testify worried how it will play out and, therefore, play out in a few weeks he wants his say, his witnesses, even though mitch until nancy pelosi gave this mcconnell and others tell him not to. >> hear from lev parnas. process time to breach. here he is talking about president trump knowing exactly of course they wanted to get the what was going on. articles of impeachment because they wanted to kill them >> president trump knew exactly what was going on. he was aware of all of my immediately. wipe them to the side and move movements. i wouldn't do anything without on and pretend this never the consent of rudy giuliani or happened. this happened and last night was the president. i have no intent, no reason to yet another explosion. >> the position that the speak to any of these officials. republicans have taken in the i mean, they have no reason to senate that there won't be new speak to me. witnesses is completely

why would president zelensky's untenable after you listen to inner circle or minister or all that interview with lev parnas. of these people, or president poroshenko meet with me? that is if you're interested in who am i? they were told to meet with me finding out what happened and finding out the truth. and that's the secret they're lev parnas laid out chapter and trying to keep. i was on the ground doing their truth about what happened. work. >> yeah. you would be right to be skeptical of lev parnas. it was all about joe biden, hunter biden and also rudy had a but most of what he said last personal thing with the manafort night to rachel maddow, and i stuff. the black ledger. graduate it was an extraordinary that was another thing. that they were looking into, but interview, rachel was prepared it was never about corruption. for every twist and turn that he it was -- it was strictly about brought her on is confirmed by testimony and documents that we've seen and heard over the burisma, included hunter biden last couple of months through and joe biden. the impeachment hearings. >> parnas pushed back at president trump's claim that he doesn't know parnas, and his so on his own, you might go this guy is a shady figure, except co-defendant igor fruman. for most of what he said has here's the president back in been confirmed by other october followed by parnas last witnesses and by documents. night. >> and isn't it something, you >> i don't know those gentlemen. go back to what the whistle-blower said and, of course, republicans are still now, it's possible i have a picture with them because i have saying that they want the a picture with everybody. whistle-blower -- why? i have a picture with everybody

the whistle-blower basically said donald trump had a bad here, but somebody said there haircut. may about picture or something i mean, it was nothing compared at a fund-raiser or somewhere. with what we have learned since but i have pictures with then. everything has been confirmed, everybody. i have -- i don't they if there's anybody i don't have plus. pictures -- i don't know them. and it puts the republicans in a i don't know about them. terrible position. i don't know what they do. my gosh, susan collins, how but -- i don't know. embarrassing. i felt so -- i actually was maybe they were clients of rudy. you'd have to ask rudy. embarrassed for her, that she i just don't know. would humiliate yourself so much >> he lied. i mean, we're not friends. when you say friends, me and him to say, oh, we don't need any more witnesses and if the house didn't watch football together or eat hot dogs but he knew had been doing their job, they would have gotten this information. it just came out. exactly he we were, me especially because i interacted with him at a lot of events. had a lot of one-on-one conversations with him at i don't think susan collins is gatherings where they would have stupid. special, like these round tables and if she thinks the people of only six people at a table. maine are going are re-elect her we've had several of those. acting like that, it's shocking. >> and, of course, donald trump >> let's hear from lev parnas. lies all the time. well, he lies all the time, here he is talking about period. >> quite an important -- president trump knowing exactly what was going on. >> but he also lies especially >> president trump knew exactly what was going on.

about people that he claims he didn't know. he was aware of all of my i remember during the campaign, movements. i wouldn't do anything without donald trump lied and said he didn't even know who david duke consent of rudy giuliani or the president. i have no intent, i have no was, and yet in the 2000 reason to speak to any of these campaign he said he wouldn't run for the reform party, because david duke was a racist and officials. they have no reason to speak to wouldn't be associated with it. of course, he tried to distance me. why would president zelensky's himself from michael cohen claiming he hardly worked with inner circle or president him, hardly knew him. of course, he distanced himself from sondland, right? borescheko meet with me? distanced himself from gordon they were told to meet with me. sondland claiming he didn't really know the guy when of i was on the ground doing their course he was donald trump's guy in that whole drug deal as john work. >> joe biden, hunter biden, also bolton said it. he says that all the time. rudy had a personal thing with i mean, think about this for a the manafort stuff, the black second. i mean, this guy, jon meacham, ledger. that was another thing that they were looking into. this guy has revealed the but it was never about president is a liar. he's revealed the vice president is a liar. he's revealed, of course, rudy corruption. giuliani is a liar. it was strictly about the he revealed devan nunes as a burisima, which was about joe biden and hunter biden. liar. kevin mccarthy is all tied up >> president trump pushed back on his claim that he doesn't with him.

like, they're all tied up with know parnas and his codefendant, this guy, and they've all lied igor fruman. here is the president back in about their knowledge of him, october followed by parnas last and i wos saying before. i couldn't think of an interview night. >> i don't know those gentlemen. it's possible i have a picture in some time that could have the impact that this interview, that with them because i have a picture with everybody. i have a picture of everybody rachel had last night with lev here. someone said there may be a parnas, but i do -- i don't picture at a fund-raiser or someone. but i have pictures with everybody. know -- i just go back to i don't know if there's anybody i don't have pictures with. watergate, and if this follows i don't know them. i don't know about them. i don't know what they do. its logical conclusion, which a few things in washington follow but maybe they were clients of their logical conclusion and the rudy. i just don't mow. trump administration we may be >> he lied. i mean, we're not friends. looking back on this 20 years when you say friends, me and him from now as a john dean moment. didn't watch football games this guy just tore the lid off together. we didn't eat hot dogs. of impeachment, and called the but he knew exactly who i was especially because i interacted with him at a lot of events. president and the vice president i had a lot of one-on-one and the attorney general, the conversations with him at president's attorney, and the republican congress out as the gatherings where we have special liars that they are. round tables where there would be only six people at a table.

we've had several of those. >> hmm. and now the test is whether this >> why, and, of course, donald will have the effect that the trump lies all the time. john dean moment had. it took a year, a year and a half almost, for watergate to unfold and produce the ultimate he lies all the time, but result which was the president especially about people he didn't know. resigning in the face of not during the campaign, donald trump lied and said he didn't only impeachment, but barry know who david duke was. in the 2000 campaign, he said he goldwater and hugh scott telling him he probably only had six to ten votes and goldwater wasn't sure he was one of them. wouldn't run for the reform party because david duke was a that was a moment where racist. he tried to distance himself from michael cohen claiming that republican partisans, end of he hardly worked with him, shoe, might be on the other foot hardly knew him. of course he distanced himself in a different era, so it's not, from gordon sondland claiming the fact that the republican is that he didn't know the guy not hugely dispositive here. which, of course, he was donald that was a moment where people were able to take on data that tru trump's guy in that whole drug deal. he says that all the time. was contrary to their pre-existing interests and make a decision in the national interest, which is what we're

supposed to get when we send and john meech yam has revealed the president as a liar, he's people to the united states congress and united states revealed the vice president as a senate. we don't get it much. liar, he revealed devin nunes as you know. it's been said there's a reason a liar. profiles in courage is a one kevin mccarthy is all tied up volume project and not very long, and that's certainly true, with him. but here's a realtime test. if you're a united states they're all tied up with this senator here's a realtime test guy and they've all lied about of whether you want to be a their knowledge of him. i was saying before, i couldn't think of an interview in some force on the side of time that could have the impact partisanship. >> right. >> so parnas implicated a lot of that rachel had last night with people in that interview last h lev parnas. and also attorney general bill but i do -- i just go back to barr even describing barr as part of the team that was dispatched to put the pressure on ukraine. >> do you know if mr. giuliani watergate. and if this follows its logical was ever in contact with mr. barr specifically about the fact conclusion, which few things that he was trying to get follow their logical conclusion in the trump administration, we ukraine to announce these may be looking back on this 20 investigations into joe biden? years from now as a john dean >> oh, absolutely. >> mr. barr knew about that? moment. this guy just tore the lid off >> mr. barr has known everything. i mean, it's impossible. of impeachment.

>> did rudy giuliani tell you he'd spoken to the attorney general specifically about and called the president and the ukraine? >> not only rudy giuliani. victoria and joe, they are all vice president and the attorney general, the president's attorney and the republican best friends. i mean -- barr was, attorney congress out as the liars that general barr was basically on they are. >> yeah. now the test is whether this the team. >> victoria and joe, the husband will have the effect that the and wife legal team who advise john dean moment had. it took a year, a year and a the president trump. explaining parnass comments on half almost for watergate to barr are "100% false." unfold and produce the ultimate >> wow. result, which was the president >> donnie deutsch, expect the resigning in the face of not only impeachment, but barry credibility of lev parnas. heard a little from rudy giuliani who called parnas a sad situation. of course, a guy he's worked goldwater and hugh scott telling him that he probably only had 6 with hand in glove on this to 10 votes and goldwater wasn't ukraine investigation, but to sure he was one of them. that was a moment where the point united states republican partisans -- and the senator you have so much in front of you. you basically just have to put your hands over your eyes and shoe might be on a different foot in a different era so it's ears and scream to deny what you've seen at this point, to not the fact that the republican is not hugely dispositive here. pretend you're not seeing and hearing what we've been seeing and hearing in the past couple that was a moment where people

months in these impeachment were able to take on data that was contrary to their hearings. again, i'll say it. pre-existing interests and make lev parnas has been indicted, might be trying to help his own a decision in the national case but not happening in a interest. which is what we're supposed to vacuum. it taked place in what we get when we send people to the united states congress and already know and confirms all of united states senate. it. >> the difference is the story. we don't get it much. there was one guy connecting you know, it's been said there's a reason profile is encouraged every single dot. this is not once again, you can it's a one volume project and start to really -- this is a not very long and that's conspiracy. certainly true. a deep state. this is every one -- but here is a realtime test. >> and by the way, why can he if you're a united states connect all the dots? senator, here is a realtime test because giuliani, it was of whether you want to be a giuliani's drug deal. >> yeah. >> and this was giuliani's bag force on the side of reason over man. he was there -- >> wow. passion, of fact over >> -- at the creation. he was there at the execution. partisanship. >> so parnas implicated a lot of people in that interview last he was there until the end. night. >> and if i am a democrat or i the vice president, the president of the united states and attorney general bill bar am running a democratic campaign even describing bar as part of or i am -- i am no longer the team that was dispatched to running against donald trump. i am running against devin put the pressure on ukraine. >> do you know if mr. giuliani nunes, kevin mccarthy, bill was ever in contact with mr.

barr, against mike pence, against rudy giuliani. i am running against this cobble bra brarer barr, specifically about the fact that he was trying to of grotesque, dishonesty, get ukraine to announce these investigations into joe biden? corruption. >> absolutely. this is the swamp ten x, and the >> mr. barr knew about that? >> mr. barr had to have known very irony, the very thing that everything. it's impossible. >> did rudy giuliani tell you he donald trump ran on, we are had spoken to the attorney seeing in technicolor as a general about ukraine specifically. >> not only rudy giuliani. demons trative example of this victoria and joe, they were all administration. i think we all still know how best friends. attorney general barr was this ends, but i do think the basically on the team. toxic stain is going to be a lot >> victoria and joe, by the way, more dramatic than i think we -- are the husband and wife legal to me, once again, every time team who advised president trump this happens we go, oh, this is once fixtures on fox news. a new bombshell. this is a new bombshell. the department of justice this is the clearest responded claiming parnas's storytelling with one center, and to me that was a little comments on barrs are, quote, bit -- >> the guy inside of the whole scam. 100% false. i think the defense will attack >> we don't know how this ends in the senate. the credibility of lev parnas. we heard a lot bit of it last the shameless trumpsters will night from rudy giuliani. remain shameless trumpsters but he called parnas a sad we do know how the story ends, how history writes this. situation. but to the point made by jon we know that everyone who meacham, if you're a united defends donald trump right now states senator, you have so much

will be exposed. we know mike pence will be in front of you, you basically exposed for what he is. have to put your hands and yoovr we know that barr will be exposed for what he is. we know that all of these eyes and ears to deny what characters, rudy giuliani, will you're seeing at this point. be exposed for what he is. again, i'll say it, lev parnas history, it will be bleak, and their families, their deserves skepticism, right? children -- their he's indicted. but it's not happening in a grandchildren -- every one who vacuum. his interview last night takes place against the back drop of has their last name will carry everything we already know and confirms a lot of it. that around with them -- if they >> the difference between last night and everything to date is the story. decide to continue lying for a there was a -- one guy failed reality tv host who will connecting every single knot. this is not -- you can start to show them no loyalty. say this is a conspiracy. this is deep state. loyalty only goes one way with >> and by the way, why? donald trump, and that's what i find so remarkable here. why can he connect all the dots? that all of these people who are because giuliani, it was going to be called out. i promise you. giuliani's drug deal and this was giuliani's bag man. i say this to you as your buddy. he was there at the creation. you're going to be called out. he was there at the execution.

you might as well do what lev he was there until the end. did, and come clean. still ahead, according to lev parnas, mike pence not only mike pence. history's going to record your deeds. knew about the quid pro quo. get -- in front of them. it was his job to get it done. >> maybe listen to your wife. more on the vice president's >> no need to talk to barr. role in all of this, next. resids role in all of this, next. he's corrupt to the core. but history -- i -- i -- it almost -- you know -- does a lot of healthy foods are very acidic and aren't anybody remember who voted necessarily great for your teeth. the acid can actually wear away at the enamel for -- for impeachment or who which overtime can cause sensitivity and a lot of people start to see their teeth voted for articles of turn yellow. impeachment when nixon -- no. i like to recommend pronamel to my patients to they remember the people, jon help them protect their teeth meacham, that stood on the side and keep the enamel strong. of right. they remember a senator from tennessee who actually had the courage even in the state of tennessee where you are right now to say words that actually, he's dead. but those words continue to ring and will ring through history, because they came from a partisan republican who said,

what did the president know, and when did the president know it. those words will be read in histories books for 100 years ♪the beat goes onp for heart failure look like? and howard baker will be it looks like emily cooking dinner for ten. remembered as a man of virtue, ♪the beat goes on it looks like jonathan on a date with his wife. because of it. what republicans, what names, ♪la-di-la-di-di will children and grandchildren entresto is a heart failure medicine that helps be able to read of their fathers your heart, so you can keep on doing what you love. and mothers and take pride in entresto helped people stay alive and out of the hospital. that -- i hope by the end of this sorry spectacle we could heart failure can change the structure of your heart, so it may not work as well. say scores. nothing would make me prouder of entresto helps improve your heart's ability these people that i've known for years and worked with, but that to pump blood to the body. really is a question. don't take entresto if pregnant; isn't it? it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. who -- who -- who are the howard don't take entresto bakers that history will with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, remember as men and women of or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. virtue? the most serious side effects are angioedema, >> that's the open rolling and low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ♪the beat goes on ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. at this point dispiriting ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure question, because there don't yeah! seem to be enough votes to, we

entrust your heart to entresto. are always talking -- i find ♪the beat goes on this kind of depressing. we say, oh, four might want to through the at&t network, edge-to-edge intelligence gives you the power to see every corner of your growing business. hear witnesses. wow! four united states senators who might actually want to hear what from using feedback to innovate... the facts are? out of 51 or 52? to introducing products faster... wow. that's great. we just sort of move the other to managing website inventory... 47 to a different category of and network bandwidth. condemning them with what george giving you a nice big edge over your competition. w. bush used to call the bigotry of low expect aationexpectation. that's the power of edge-to-edge intelligence. we don't think they're going to do it and are excited about four. i agree with your analysis. what i sometimes say to folks who are in office and they listen politely and then, or appear to listen politely and then move on is, what do you want us to think when we look at your portrait? and isn't an appeal to vanity, honestly. not even an appeal to principle. it's an appeal to, do you want to be in this kind of

conversation we're talking about? do you want to be margaret chase smith, who early on stood up and said that joe mccarthy had gone too far? or do you want to be joe the good news? our comfort lasts all day. the bad news? so does his energy. mccarthy? do you want to be a machine hack depend® fit-flex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. who gets re-elected, perhaps because, perfect or not, life's better when you're in it. because that's your high effort and best use, but who is never be there with depend®. here, it all starts withello! hi!... remembered? seems to me it's a pretty clear how can i help? and compelling choice. a data plan for everyone. everyone? and i'm not saying that, everyone. let's send to everyone! therefore, there's an absolute wifi up there? uhh. vote on the verdict that therefore and -- absolutely sure sure, why not? that this position is right. how'd he get out?! i'm not that, you know, not that a camera might figure it out. arrogant about this stuff, but i that was easy! do know this. glad i could help. at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. because they're not even willing to engage on the facts. so come ask, shop, discover at your local xfinity store today. if you engage on the facts and you decide you know what it's not worth it, i don't mind having a president who does this, i find that unconscionable

but it's a democracy. other people can come to that conclusion, but at least listen to the facts, engage, and, therefore, be loyal to this fundamental idea we had, which was that we would think before we acted, instead of acting and then maybe thinking. >> yeah. >> pretty straightforward. >> and the point you make, jon, is very important, because this is not about a final vote on impeachment. people can disagree. even if all the information comes out, there may be senators who say, you know what? this is shameful. now to mike pence and what i vote to censuring but we're not going to overturn the lev parnas claims was the vice president's role in the ukraine results of an election over scheme, including how the this. people could make that argument president allegedly used pence and we could have a good-faith debate over that. to carry it out. let's start with the message but when you have the head of parnas says he was told to the senate, the senate majority deliver to ukraine about making that announcement of an leader saying we're not going to investigation boo the bidens. have a fair trial. i'm going to coordinate this >> i told him that if he doesn't with donald trump. with the defendant. it's going to be a scam trial, announce -- the announcement was

key at that time because of the like -- like they'd run in inauguration, that pence would not show up, nobody would show moscow. and that's what moscow mitch of up to his inauguration. >> unless he announced an course would do. investigation into joe biden, no his default. u.s. officials, particularly and then lindsey graham actually vice president mike pence would chairman of the judiciary not come to -- committee for the united states >> particularly vice president senate. mike pence. a position that used to be held >> pence's trip was, in fact, in high esteem saying he wasn't interested in even hearing the canceled the following day. parnas says on president trump's orders delivered to him by rudy facts. this, of course, just a few weeks after saying, if there giuliani. when asked if pence knew where were a quid pro quo, then that would be troubling, and you his trip was canceled, he quoted would be very concerned. the impeachment testimony from or you have susan collins gordon sondland that said yesterday. again, just embarrassing everybody was in the loop. there was that september trip to herself. again, not wanting a fair trial. poland where pence met with president zelensky. not wanting to get information. here is parnas discussing that. >> president trump was supposed to meet zelensky in poland to let americans know the nature himself. but then he used the excuse of the hurricane, but it wasn't of their president, the nature of their presidency, and how it because of the hurricane. it was because he was angry that impacts america on the world zelensky still didn't make any attempt or effort to make any stage. how it's impacting a democracy announcement before he was going to meet him. that has been invaded by donald >> how do you know that was an

trump's hero vladimir putin, and i say donald trump's hero if excuse? he's not his hero, please, give >> because i spoke to rudy. rudy would talk to me. me evidence of anytime that we spoke about this every day. donald trump has not kowtowed to >> so president trump is him in person or when speaking supposed to go. he decides not to go. of him. >> and so -- yeah. this is not about -- are you going to vote to impeach the >> basically, he was to go there president or not. and get it straightened out that this is simply about, are you going to vote to give america a zelensky was supposed to go there and make another announcement. fair trial? that didn't happen. that is when bolton went over are you going to vote for there and i think he has a lot to say. transparency? are you going to vote to get the i'm not going to talk on his -- but i think he's a key witness truth out? or are you going to rig the to his conversation with process? zelensky and when he came back are you so scared of the truth and why he left or got fired or and what it will reveal of however you want to look at that. >> let me make sure i understand donald trump, this failed what you're saying. reality show host who will throw when vice president pence went over there on september 1st, you overboard in a second, are again, in president trump's you so afraid of the truth that you won't even give americans stead, you have reason to believe vice president pence was tasked at that meeting with the fair trial that they are getting president zelensky to announce investigations of joe demanding? biden specifically? >> pretty heavy conversation. we still need to get katty kay >> yes. >> when asked if bolton knew and jeremy bash into it.

what the administration was there's a lot more to get to on pressuring ukraine to do, parnas this story. said, quote, 100%. lev parnas didn't just link president trump to the ukraine he knows what happened there. >> the drug deal that he scandal. he implicated the vice president described and willie brings up a great point. as well. we'll show you that moment. what lev parnas is saying about plus what parnas said about devin nunes that had the pence and everybody else is the congressman responding on fox same thing that gordon sond news last night trying to london, under sworn testimony, rejigger his story. told the house of you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. representatives. everybody was in the loop. >> jeremy bash, where do you want to begin? this implicates the entire top tier of this administration. >> i think the interview last night was the first time that we heard from somebody inside effectively the criminal conspiracy from the president's inner circle. but what was significant was even gordon sondland tried to walk a fine line. he said the quid pro qo was about investigation of barisma i remember thinking about things i did

and i didn't really think it was about joe biden. and wondering if that was the last time i was going to do that thing. this is the first time we've heard from a witness, again, inside of rudy giuliani and the i thought...i'm not letting anything take me away president's inner circle on this. you said no, this is all about from my family, that loves me and needs me, joe biden from beginning to end. this was not about corruption. without a fight. this wasn't even just generally when i came to cancer treatment centers of america, about burisma. this was about biden. it felt... so different from any other hospital so i think his testimony was that we'd ever been to. significant. two other important things from whether it be spiritual, the interview. physical, emotional... first of all, he talked about the threats against ambassador they take it all into consideration, in healing you. yovanovitch. he said they came from robert infusion, imaging, everything is here. hide who he basically described as a psycho path and a drunk i don't have to go anywhere else. which a medicine me think this guy was a lot more dangerous they create a treatment plan that's for you. that we even think. who knew about that and what was the origin of that? they cared about my victories. third, and i think significant, was that he revealed that many they care about me as a person beyond of the payments to had entire just being a cancer patient. team, the rudy giuliani, to they're my second family. parnas himself, came from dimitry furtash, who is a russian-backed mobster who is under indictment. so this entire conspiracy was

essentially funded by the or more on car insurance.s could save you fifteen percent kremlin. still ahead, last month everybody knows that. well, did you know pinocchio congressman devin nunes said he was a bad motivational speaker? couldn't recall talking to lev parnas. now he remembers. i look around this room and i see nothing what he claims jogged his memory, next. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, but untapped potential. you have potential. you have-oh boy. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. conditions are protected. vo: a broken promise. trump repeatedly tried to undermine coverage for 134 million americans with pre-existing conditions. mike: "he just doesn't care if you have a pre-existing condition he wants to deny you access to coverage. if he is re-elected, he'll keep trying to do that and i think we can't let that happen." vo: as president, mike will lower costs, and protect americans with pre-existing conditions. mike: i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message.

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when you look at the world, ♪ what do you see? ♪ where others see chaos, we see patterns. ♪ connections. relationships. ♪ when you use location technology, you can see where things happen, before they happen. ♪ with esri location technology, you can see what others can't. by the way, we're talking about, of course, in the middle of this can we just break for a ♪ second from this really, really significant important news.

i just got to say. we were just talking about "once and with the sxfinity stream app, screen is your big screen. upon time in hollywood." which is free with your service, >> the impact of disc jockeys you can take a spin through on demand shows, especially southern california or stream live tv. but throughout the country in big, major markets, disc xjockes download your dvr'd shows and movies on the fly. even record from right where you are. whether you're travelling around the country or around the house, were celebrities. sound track of an entire keep what you watch with you. generation, hugely popular when you hear those songs and impact download the xfinity stream app of those songs, that music, that and watch all the shows you love. segment throughout the movie "once upon a time" quentin tarantino nailed it. >> the movie is so good. but, again, i found that younger people, like under, let's say, 30. younger for me. >> punks. >> they don't, a lot of them don't get that movie as much, because they don't understand what the world was like before you go on spotify. all of this music at your disposal. we would sit and listen to deejays that would let you know what e were going to hear. play "bohemian rhapsody" first

time and you'd go, my god, what was that? i lived in big flats, new york, and right in the middle of, you >> do you know congressman devin know, from new york over to nunes? >> yes, i do. chicago, and i would just -- my parents would be watching "happy >> what has been your relationship with him? >> we don't have too much of a days" and "lavergne & shirley." relationship. we met several times at the trump hotel. "smothers brothers," come down. but our relationship basically i'd be there, but when george expanded when i was introduced to his aid, derrick harvey. michael was there. like he was in a well, put reverb on his voice and wls. and the reason why derrick loved listening to wls not because of -- always minus 3 in harvey was more -- i understood that happened because devin nunes had something to do with upstate new york and i'd feel the ethics committee and he sorry for myself and then listen couldn't be in the spotlight. to wls in chicago and it would be minus 47 and go, okay. he was shunned a little bit and i'm good. he was looking into this ukraine cklw out of -- and a magical deal. i was in shock when i was

time. watching the hearings and when i tarantino gets it perfectly. >> brad pitt incredible. saw devin nunes sitting up there and there was a picture where leo's great. derrick harvey was in back over margot robbie but brad pitt is there sitting. i texted my attorney. i said i can't believe this is remarkable. happening. >> because? and spotify don't get this >> well, because they were involved in getting all this either. at your fingertips. stuff on biden. keep a blank tape in my cassette >> wow. lev parnas telling rachel maddow last night that he had met with player, if a song i liked i'd republican congressman devin nunes a number of times. want recorded, dive to get to my the ranking member of the house recorder and tape it so i would intelligence committee told fox have the song and wouldn't have news last night that he now to buy it. >> we'd drive everywhere. remembers speaking on the phone my dad throw us in, my with indicted giuliani associate grandparents out in california, lev parnas after previously and drive from georgia to l.a. or drive from -- or we'd drive from upstate new york -- claiming he couldn't recall having the conversation. >> that's fun. >> to l.a. you know, san diego. here he is first from december be in this little hatchback, five of us, but we'd go -- you and last night. >> did you ever talk to this know, we couldn't wait to get to guy, lev parnas or whatever his the cities. name is? >> it's possible. because you know. but i haven't gone through all >> right. >> i still like 100 years later my phone records. remember driving over the golden i don't really recall that name.

gate bridge, and they played i remember the name now because "ride captain ride." he's been indicted. i'll go back and check all my >> hmm. >> and i just -- it was the records, but it seems very coolest thing and those deejays. unlikely that i would be taking calles from random people. they were -- you can't explain >> your phone number showed up with calls to him to lev parnas that time, and i would -- you know, talking about -- tweeted in a list of data numbers. about this briefly. and you said that you didn't and talked about, one time we recall speaking with him or came to new york from upstate new york, and i was sitting in whether it was on your cell the hotel room in the morning phone or your office phone. and i heard this deejay who had have you figured out the answer to any of those questions? >> yeah. this great voice, and -- wack, and if i recall, that is brand new when that had come out when i came on your show. wack. what was that? i just didn't know this name, it was imus. i had no idea who imus was. parnas. what i always like to remind people is we are dealing with sat and recorded it. my parents returning around getting ready and i was sitting people every day. we're an oversight committee. there with a tape recorder. sounds like the old days and >> sure. >> you know now that he had called my cell phone. antiquated. much as i love everything at my and i didn't know his name. i didn't remember the name, but fingertips a the spotify, i did remember going back nothing more magical than that. >> no. >> that -- was -- magic. looking at where i was at the and you know what's so funny time. because you can do that now. about this whole era we're in checked it with my records and now with podcasts? it was very clear. i remember that call which was

going back to the days of early very odd, random, talking about radio. random things and i said, great, the magic of the voice. you know, just talked to my the magic -- it's so much more staff and boom, boom, boom. >> so there was no discussion intimate. radio was so much more intimate about the ukraine ambassador, was there any discussion about and television. >> and intros in the morning in the ukraine yam ambassador and southern california. talked right up to the first the fact that she should be lyric. you know? great stuff. removed in that call? >> so let's get back to the big >> the first time i remember the story of the day. >> there you go. that's our break. there's our break. name yovanovitch is not until >> that was fun. now to mike pence and what lev the impeachment scam started. parnas claims was the vice president's role in the ukraine >> everybody knows nunes's cell scheme including how the phone number. president allegedly used pence right? >> now you can go back and figure out where you were. to carry it out. what is this guy talking about? start with the message parnas says he was told to deliver to ukraine about making that obviously, the key question for announcement of an investigation into the bidens. devin nunes is if what the >> i told him that if he president did here was fine, if it was upstanding, if it was doesn't, the announcement was key at that time because of the lawful, why are you long about inauguration, that pence would it in plain sight inspect that no show up. nobody would show up to his is the question that needs posed inauguration. >> unless he announced an investigation into joe biden no to him. u.s. officials, particularly

vice president mike pence, would not come to the -- >> particularly vice president mike pence. >> pence's trip was in fact canceled the following day, parnas says, on president trump's orders delivered to him by rudy giuliani. asked if pence knew why his trip >> it's astounding that devin was canceled he quoted the impeachment testimony from ambassador gordon sondland that nunes was overseeing that said everybody was in the loop. hearing. >> it's beyond inappropriate. also that september trip to poland where pence met with it's incredible. >> jeremy bash, thank you very president zelensky. much. coming up on "morning joe," one here's parnas discussing that. segment wasn't enough with rick wilson. >> president trump was supposed we're bringing back the strategist to continue our conversation about the gop's demise in the age of trump. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. to meet sa lezielinski. he said it was because of the hurricane but it wasn't. he didn't make announcement before meeting him -- >> how do you know that wasn't the real reason? >> i spoke to rudy. rudy would talk to me. i mean, we spoke about this every day. >> so president trump is supposed to go, he decides not

to go. vice president pence supposed to go? >> he sends him instead. supposed to go there and get it straightened out that zelensky was supposed to make another announcement and that didn't happen and that's when bolton, secretary bolton went over there and it i think he has a lot to say. i'm not going to talk on his behalf but he's a key witness to an air force veteran made of doing what's right, his conversation with selensi z not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. when he came back, got fired that's how you do it right. however you want to look at that. >> let me understand. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - when vice president pence went over there in president trump's with hassle-free claims, he got paid before stead, again, you believe or have reason to believe that vice his neighbor even got started. president pence was tasked at that meeting with getting because doing right by our members, that's what's right. president zelensky to announce usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. investigations of joe biden specifically? usaa >> yes. >> when asked if bolton knew, what the administration was pressuring ukraine to do, parnas i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ said, "100%." ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. "he knows what happened there." ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ >> the drug deal he described

and willie brings up a great ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. point. what lev parnas is saying about ♪ nothing is everything. pence and everybody else is the same thing that gordon sondland keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. under sworn testimony told the house of representatives. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. everybody was in the loop. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. >> jeremy bash, where is do you want to begin? ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ because this really implicates ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ a -- the entire top tier of this ♪ nothing is everything administration. >> yeah. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections i think the interview last night was the first time that we heard and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you from somebody inside effectively for infections and tuberculosis. the criminal conspiracy from the tell your doctor if you have an infection president's inner circle. or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, but what was significant, even chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. gordon sondland under the testimony you just referenced, joe, essentially tried to walk a ♪ nothing is everything fine line. he said, well, the quid pro quo ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. was about investigation of ♪ burisma and i didn't really think it was about joe biden, as your broker, i've solved it. is complicated. and even kurt volker tried to that's great, carl. but we need something better. that's easily adjustable has no penalties or advisory fee.

walk that line as well. and we can monitor to see that we're on track. no. all about joe biden from like schwab intelligent income. beginning to end. not about corruption. this wasn't even just generally schwab! introducing schwab intelligent income. about burisma. this is about biden. a simple, modern way to pay i think his testimony is yourself from your portfolio. significant and also two other important things from the oh, that's cool... interview. i mean, first of all, he talked about we don't have that. the threats against ambassador schwab. yovanovitch. a modern approach to he said they essentially came wealth management. from this guy robert hyde, who he described as basically a psychopath and a drunk, which did not give me any comfort. in fact, made me think this guy was a lot more dangerous than we even think. who knew about that and what was the origin of that? and third significant revealing many of the payments to this entire team, to rudy giuliani, to parnas himself, came from dmitri firtash, a russian-backed mobster under indictment. this was funded by the kremlin, learned that first time last night. >> and mike, prosecutors always look for, when they have evidence, they look for

corresponding evidence. documentation. notes taken in realtime. so when you have lev talking about the fact that it was all about biden, and, of course, sondland knew burisma equalled biden, you go back to that note he wrote in the hotel room in vienna which says, get zelensky to hold a press conference, or get zelensky to hold a press conference investigating biden's that is what any produsecutor would need to link his words. the fact he took those nodes in realtime with giuliani, the vice president, the attorney general, everybody involved in what john bolton correctly call add dred deal. >> the artifacts of this investigation as it is ongoing will be historic. they already are historic. the ritz-carlton notes certainly part of that package.

katty kay, rachel maddow's amazing interview last night stands on its own and a couple of component parts that are incredible. one is, my feeling having seen a lot of trials and having heard about a lot of murder inquiries, prosecutors should show this interview to young prosecutors, because it is interrogation as a conversation, which is critical i can sick and tired. to extracting information, and >> voice mails that cut off we got a ton of information last before your finished talking. night. my question to you is -- >> sick and tired. >> and young punks who wear did it occur to you, and it must their jeans below their turnies. have at the conclusion of this >> this november, vote bernie interview, with everything that lev parnas put on the table that sanders. he is sick and tired. the elements of this trial now, >> i'm bernie sanders and i am exhausted and ill. the thing that's most on trial >> that was so funny. we're back with mike barnacle, is the united states senate. jonathan lamere, caddie kay and how can these senators who seemingly are on the fence or in joining now, kurt bardella. donald trump's pocket hear evidence such as this and

continue the charade that he is now a "morning joe" nothing happened? >> yeah. contributor. also with us, political and specifically republican strategist wick wilson. senators in the senate who may be wavering, with all of lemires he is utah with a new book exci entitled "running against the accurate caveats that this is an devil." what an apt title for the stuff indicted individual and it's important to take what he says we're going to cover today. >> well, yeah. with a pinch of salt and try to rick, what we learned last night ve verify all he's said. in the rachel maddow interview this has to put more pressure on those republican senators who was a political earthquake. may be wavering, because the >> it really was, joe. it's a lesson for these guys in testimony was so compelling. the senate going forward. he laid out this very clear chain of command. basically it was trump, there will always be something giuliani, parnas. they were working to each other, and he said at one point, i would be in an interview with a new. they're going to have a consequence if they try to cover this up and wash it away and get ukrainian official, and i would rid of it right away, they're put giuliani on speaker phone to going to have a consequence. the testimony is going to keep verify i was acting for giuliani and giuliani was acting for trump. no doubt there parnas coming. >> tom initial yols the last

effectively in his words at least acting for the president. couple of days. he said i didn't leave the and the line he has, i think the most important, it was never republican party because of donald trump. i left it because of susan about corruption. that's his quote. it was never about corruption. collins and people like susan collins. >> again, what's important about that is, donnie, we all know it i'm there, you're there, was never about corruption. everybody else is there. everybody knows. but a lot of us again trump -- even the president's closest advisers knew it was never about corruption. that's just a joke, but it's not a free pass, but we still, even though everybody understand how damaged a human knew the president was lying, it's nice to actually have the being he is. testimony to have the evidence that what we knew, have it but susan collins knows better. confirmed. like everybody even the whistle-blow whistle-blower. everybody knew what they were saying is true. i say that because, again, mika and i were told by a -- a susan collins is not. corey gardner, is not. and you see what susan collins foreign policy expert in early said yesterday and it's so august, before all of this depressing. i don't want to know the truth broke, you really need to look and i'm going to play really into what's happening in stupid right now. because they don't want the ukraine. truth to come out. donald trump is holding up

military aid until they >> they don't want the truth to investigate biden. come out and they can't remember that's before anything broke. so everybody knew this. history. in watergate, you had 49 house >> every one of these slimeballs members who had months before starting with giuliani on down, been defending richard nixon i wish they could have been with saying, this is a witch hunt. me a few days ago as i sat this isn't real. in 1980, blowout. notice with michael cohen wearing green khakis. this guy michael cohen going to 1994, corruption kills do anything to defend trump. candidacies. if i got trump -- i'm a trump and defending corruption is almost worse than being the guy. i'm protected. source of it. i'm a made man. because the voters do not want and this was a broken guy. somebody who empowers corrupt a guy in green khakis in a room behavior in office. and susan collins doing this this size who eats his lunch at thing yesterday, it's the 11:00. dinner at 4:00. typical fan dance that she does. >> separated from the ones he loved. >> separated -- sleeps in a bunk and does exactly what trump bed. told me eats chicken he saw on the label was not for human needs. this is a behavior that i think consumption. citizens in maine will these guys should sit with eventually say that's enough. >> yeah. michael cohen, because michael i think that's coming, kurt. cohen was one of these guys who but, again, nixon goes back to san clemente, right? put it on the line for trump. he's the next president for he was rudy giuliani, he was life. donald trump goes back to bill barr, he was kevin mccarthy, he was devin nunes. mar-a-lago. these guys, who really are they should sit with michael suckers, trump is playing them

cohen. >> by the way, michael cohen's as suckers. not in jail for doing some side visit. these are the guys who never michael cohen's in jail for escape it, whose data didn't doing what donald trump told him give them 400 million dollars. to do. >> he is in jail, as he said it to me the words used i'm sitting they're the ones, the corey he because at a direction of a gardners, the tom tillises, the guy i wrote a check so this guy could get his rocks off, he used martha mcsallys, they're the different kinds of words. ones branded as corrupt and they that's what i'm in jail for. these guys should sit with can't escape it for the rest of michael cohen, because that's their lives. this is the -- the enabling of the guy singing the way these this, this is one of the reason guys were singing 18 months ago why i left the republican party. and that's where it ended up. >> you mentioned devin nunes. we'll sneak in a very quick break and then see his painful, it was people we know who know better. desperate walk back on trying to they don't want to know the facts and bury their heads in cover up the fact he lied about the sand and are now complicit contact with parnas. we'll be right back. in this cover up. ♪ unlike donald trump, this wasn't a side show i want to run for president. and see what happens. he thought he was going to create his own media company after he lost.

when lindsey graham said i don't want to see the transcript of all these issues, i don't want to see the evidence, how do they get out of that? how can they even turn after, let's say, the lev parnas interview or after testimony from john bolton to say, come to think of it, i'm going vote to convict the president. is there a way out of this for any of those republicans? >> look, this is like the weekend bender. on friday night, it's a lot of fun. on saturday, you're starting to feel and it on sunday there's a dead hooker in the trunk. >> wow. >> yikes. >> your weekends go a little differently than mine. >> yeah. >> but they've got a point where things you can do with schwab: they realize he will do you can earn more when you invest your cash.

♪ everything to calm them into letting them be the enablers. you can get a satisfaction guarantee. this guy you is going to do ♪ everything he can to use them and blame them. if they don't have a moment you can also wonder why our competitors where they go i better step away from the table, i have to stop don't offer that. drinking, i have to end this before they get out of hand, schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. they're going to go down in history with a stain on them. they're going to be the ones who are unemployable n future. if you get sue collins and she's going to have to be a teacher in maine and live in the witness protection program, she's going to be so ashamed by the time this is over. but if they don't have a moment where they summon some courage, they're going to go down. >> what makes you think that is going to happen? >> it hasn't happened in 3 1/2 years. >> i wrote in the new book, there are no heros right now in the republican party. even the ones who should be able to -- because they don't have any political fear of trump, mitt romney is not up for re-election. donald trump will be in the ground before mitt romney loses an election in utah. but he still has headsitated an

hesitated and that's because there's a linchpin in the senate and that is mitch mcconnell. donald trump will get the stonewall of protection because mitch mcconnell is telling susan collin webs i got you. you need 20 million? i'll give you 20 million. you need 50 million? i will give you 50 million. >> so for many of them, isn't it obvious where this is leading and where history -- how history will view them? this is why i'm stuck on these people not capable of looking at what is available to them as information and what could be available if they even garnered the thought of transparency. so it's you staggering. >> it is. >> and jonathan lamere, think about -- you can think about the people that have worked for donald trump that have remained loyal to donald trump that he's thrown away just over the past

years. you can think about the people in prison that he threw away. even roy cohen, he runs around saying i need my roy cohen. he finally got it with bill barr. but even roy cone, roy cone got aids, trump dropped him, let him die alone, pretended he didn't know him. completely washed his hands of him. that's how it ends with donald trump. >> sick. sick. >> loyalty has always been a do you know congressman one-way street for donald trump, devin nunes? >> yes, i do. both as a celebrity developer, a >> what's been your relationship with him? >> we don't have too much of a reality tv star and now as a politician and president. relationship. rick, my question is this. we met several times at the trump hotel but our relationship you know, at this point, no, started getting basically where, they republicans have not shown any courage. where it expanded was when i was they have not stepped forward. introduced to his aide derek and as much as i want to ask you about the dead hooker you just harvey. >> uh-huh. >> and there reason why derek mentioned, what i'm going to ask you instead is this that this is harvey was more of, i understand, i was told at that a real possibility he's going to time was because devin nunes win again. it could be four more years of

just had an ethics, something to do with the ethics committee and this. is that the bargain they're couldn't be in the spotlight. making that maybe they have to face the verdict of history kind of shunned a little bit and decades do unthe road, but they looking into this ukraine stuff. can enjoy power for perhaps five >> does it strike you unusual or more years? >> well, i think a lot of them right now are looking at the filing deadlines in their states inappropriate devin nunes would and they're afraid to -- i mean, be one mof the lead i think that's one of the things that's keeping them in line is investigators, the top republican on that committee? >> i was in shock watching the lindsey graham knows that on i think it's march 5th in south hearings when i saw devin nunes sitting up there and then there carolina, at that point trump can't get a primary guy up was a picture derek harvey in against him. the back over there sitting. so that's a little bit of it. i texted my attorney. but i think a lot of them are i said, i can't believe this is makzing the calculation the democrats are going to nominate happening. >> because -- >> well, because they were somebody who is not going to run involved in getting all of this the right kind of campaign stuff on biden. against trump and they are >> wow. lev parnas telling rachel maddow fearful. the primary motivator for all last night he had met with republicans in the senate of trump is not that they love this republican congressman devin guy. it's that they fear him. nunes a number of times. and so that fear is a very the ranking member of the house powerful motivator. and, again, filing deadlines intelligence committee told fox news last night that he now will pass. we'll see about that. and at some point, the fire will remembers speaking on the phone be so hot at some point, they'll with indicted giuliani associate recognize they can't be saved by mcconnell. >> all right. new this morning, ukraine is set lev parnas after previously claiming he couldn't recall to open a criminal investigation

into the hacking of burisma and having the conversation. here he is first from december and then last night. the possible illegal surveillance of then u.s. >> did you ever talk to this guy ambassador marie yovanovitch. lev parnas or whatever his name on the alleged surveillance, the is? >> you know, it's possible, but i haven't gone through all of my ukrainian government cites the phone records. i don't really recall that name. reporting from congressional you know, i remember the name candidate robert hyde to lev now because he's been indicted. parnas suggesting he was i'll go back and check in my tracking the then ambassador's moves. records but it seems very the ukraine said it will investigate if she was illegally unlikely i would be taking calls from random people. tracked or whether it was -- it >> your phone number showed up is just, quote, bravado and fake with calls to him to lev parnas. information in the informal in a, like, list of data conversation between two u.s. numbers. you said you didn't recall citizens on the burisma hacking. speaking with him. or whether it was on your cell ukraine said it intends to reach phone or office phone. have you figured out the answer out to the fbi for help in a to any of those questions? >> yeah. if you recall, that was brand joint international new when that had come out when investigation. i came on your show. caddie kay. >> yeah. >> that's right. good luck with that, right? >> i just didn't know the name. this name parnas. i like to remind people we are i'm still fascinated by the dead dealing with people every day. hooker. we're an oversight committee and i suspect in this case it might be a ukrainian oligarch in the

have incoming calls that come to my office, to my cell phone et trunk of your car. cetera, et cetera. that is a lot more difficult for >> sure. >> you know now he had called my everybody, particularly the cell phone and i didn't know his people perpetrating it. one of the things that made me name, didn't remember the name but i remembered going back think lev parnas was so looking where i was at the time. you can do that. compelling in that rachel maddow know where you physically are, interview was all of this checked it with my records and it was very clear. segment about hyde and the i remember that call. ambassador. he actually said, i thought hyde which was very odd, random, was a drunk and a bid on of a talking about random things and buffoon and i didn't really said, great. talk to my staff and boom, boom, believe any of this stuff about boom, which is normal standard him having yovanovitch under operating procedure. >> and nothing about the surveillance. i never thought she was actually in danger. ukrainian ambassador? any discussion about the ukrainian ambassador and the fact she should be removed in he may be saying that to himself to make himself look good. that call? >> the first time i remember the but it was the human bit in this name yovanovitch, the ambassador, was not until this interview that makes me think, wow, this guy is quite credible impeachment sham started. because he's being honest about >> everybody has devin nunes' how this was not really real and phone number, if you don't have he was turning up in the donald trump hotel bar. it. >> yeah. jeremy bash, boom, boom, boom. and for some reason, that made me think that was -- you know, that's it. it's done. that gave credibility to a lot what's your gut? >> now you can go back and of the other stuff that he said in the course of this interview. figure out where you were? what is this guy talking about ukrainians are right. they have to look after this and it? they have to investigate this.

obviously, key question for devin nunes is if what the i'm just wondering where the president did here was fine if state department is. where is mike pompeo? it was upstanding, if it was if there is even a threat that lawful, why are you so eager to his ambassador was under cover it up? why are you lying about it in plain sight? surveillance, perhaps by the question that needs to be associates of the president in a posed directly to him. >> so i mean, mika, underline foreign country, shouldn't the state department be putting on a one more time. devin nunes was ranking member of the intelligence commit. statement about in this morning saying this is not acceptable right now? -- committee. >> they should have been putting running the impeachment trial, a out statements well before this, guy at the middle of the case caddie. you're absolutely right. but all of this, everything about which narrative he shaped from the very beginning of that hearing it's astounding as lev parnas said himself that devin we're talking about, parnas, nunes in the middle of the story was the ranking member overseeing that hearing with pompeo, pence, trump, all of adam schiff. this is being recorded by an >> i am just -- there's not one element among us called history. way he didn't remember speaking to him. it's beyond inappropriate. it's incredible. in terms of history, the snap of jeremy bash, thank you very much. coming up, a lot more to get a finger. to this morning including impeachment. the house has sent the two the behavior of the republicans articles of impeachment over to in the united states senator in the senate. setting up an historic trial, 1974, it's literally a first. which is expected to get under way next week. >> so my question to you, and to

plus -- the most talked about moment of you, too, rick, is what has this week's democratic debate seemed to happen once the happened to the institution, not questioning was over. just the republicans, but now we know exactly what was specifically now in the senate said during that tense exchange republicans, what has happened to our institutions is trump between elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. we'll have that ahead on slowly altering things, maybe "morning joe." forever in this country? >> i wouldn't say slowly. >> hope not. >> barnacle, i would say he's altered them profoundly and swiftly. the idea of standing up for your state or your district for a republican particularly is gone. you're judged only if you're loyal to trump or not. americans come to lendingtree.com to compare and that's the only scoring system save on loans, credit cards and in the republican party. more! but with the new lending and he has reduced washington to tree app you can see your full this corrupt and sort of financial health, monitor your corrupted environment. sort of credit score, see your cash flow corrupted environment. and find out how you can cut >> i think about being not just your monthly bills. download it now to see how much you can history like 1974, but their own save. trump: those pre-existing conditions are protected. vo: a broken promise. history. i remember when he was trump repeatedly tried to undermine coverage investigating benghazi. for 134 million americans he put out a report saying with pre-existing conditions. security is a priority and the mike: "he just doesn't care administration failed, that's if you have a pre-existing condition why we're doing the

investigation, that's why we are he wants to deny you access to coverage. investigating hillary clinton. if he is re-elected, where is that mike pompeo now he'll keep trying to do that when someone's security, an and i think we can't let that happen." ambassador's, has been compromised. where is jim jordan who was on vo: as president, mike will lower costs, and protect americans that committee. with pre-existing conditions. all these republicans turned away from their own history, it mike: i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. wasn't that long ago. it was six years ago they were doing this. >> as a "morning joe" contributor, give our viewers a whoh no, that looks grossit. what is that? you gotta try it, it's terrible. firsthand look back to what it was like when it was republicans i don't wanna tray it if it's terrible. it's like mango chutney and burnt hair. that were investigating barack no thank you, i have a very sensitive palate. just try it! hey guys, i think we should hurry up. if you taste something bad, obama. the hypocrisy is staggering. you want someone else to try it. >> it is so different. it's what you do. i can't get it out of my mouth! i was thinking about the interview last night with if you want to save fifteen percent parnas. or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. if something like that was going on when we were in charge of it's what you do. dog, dog, dog. congress, we would have had a subpoena out that night, wouldn't have waited until the next day. it's beautiful. during that interview you would you want to take it for a test-drive? definitely. have breaking news, house republican darrell issa we're gonna go in that. seriously? subpoenas for testimony. i thought we were going on a test drive. we are. a heavy-duty test drive. when anything happened that woo-hoo! hinted of potential scandal or this is dope. i've never been on a test drive like this before. impropriety with obama,

this silverado offers a 6.6 liter duramax diesel republicans were the first to issue subpoenas, have hearings, that can tow up to 35,500 pounds. do closed door depositions, things they rail about now, they awesome! let's take these logs up that hill. were a big fan of closed door let's do it. wow! this truck's a beast. depositions when they were the are you sure there's a trailer back there? majority, it is complete this is incredible. hypocrisy, seeing a different best test drive ever. standard. [chuckle] frankly, we never had close to volume of evidence that we have i remember thinking about things i did now when we were going after and wondering if that was the last time them. >> this goes down to what we i was going to do that thing. talked about before, the difference between republicans and democrats, how they approach coming to the cancer treatment centers of america, politics. they treat the whole person. it is a zero sum game from where everything is here. imaging, infusion... we come from politically. i don't have to go anywhere else. and democrats need to figure it they care about me as a person beyond just out. i don't need democrats on being a cancer patient. twitter saying you're -- no. they're my second family. democrats need to figure it out quickly, that it is about winning. and if you don't win, then donald trump gets four more years. and the constitutional checks and balances that we have held up for 240 years. >> gone. >> gone.

>> they're in a bar fight and they don't know it. they're arguing over the rules of the democratic social alliance annual meeting and the republicans are there with baseball bats and chains. >> they're talking about conversations from two years ago. you lied about me. no, i didn't. >> i watched that debate. >> i am thinking every word needs to be a referendum on donald trump. bring it back to trump over and over. they're nitpicking votes. >> talk about 2018, 2018, 2019, 2020. do you want to talk about iraq or iran right now? do you want to talk about a guy who is willing to sell out a democratic ally that's been invaded. do you want to talk about a rock in 2003 or talk about a guy several times it would be on whose fbi director, cia speaker phone where he would director, director of national start the conversation on intelligence, director of speaker phone. take it off and go somewhere to

talk to them, but a lot of homeland security all said the timesing on the golf course when single greatest threat are the we were golfing together. russians trying to influence our especially i remember during the democracy, and we have a mueller times where rudy i president now who says i believe remember said something that he didn't appreciate what was taken the ex-kgb agent. out of context and screaming at him so loud. >> this is an administration when i watched the impeachment that hands the democrats every and saw the testimony about the day another set of attacks, that is robustly corrupt, led by a sondland, i could understand you guy mentally unstable, filled could hear president trump talking next to, like i heard with weird criminals and him several times when with adjacent people, and the rudy. >> because he speaks loudly. >> very loudly, yeah. democrats keep arguing obamacare >> welcome back to "morning versus medicare for all. joe." it is thursday, january 16th, shut up about policy. get on the attack. with joe, willie and me. you've got to be there. we have msnbc contributor mike that's the only way this will be waged. donald trump doesn't care about policy. they're going to go after the barnic barnicle, donny deutsch, white democratic nominee every day house reporter jonathan lemire with a flamethrower. they're not going to mess from inside the cold this time. around. if the democrats don't stand up >> wearing a scarf. immediately, reframe this every where's the scarf? day as debate about trump, >> in from the cold. got it. >> and you have to -- it's like decision about trump, they're going to lose. a beyonce concert. >> they can debate as if donald he has a different look. trump is on the stage with them. >> came out. >> do we have a clip, the >> he's superman.

okay -- elizabeth warren clip? >> you have to stay one step >> the sound of what they were ahead of everyone who's following you, guys. i moved to a second location saying, she wouldn't shake his today. >> got it. hand after they fought about okay. >> scarf's off. something she decided to thrust going to have a bow around him into the election weeks before next time. >> mysterious. iowa that makes her look brittle washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay with us. and completely weak after she's >> and wearing that janet. had a robust campaign where she >> chief white house correspondent for the "new york looked like a happy warrior who times," peter baker and white really had this, and then this house correspondent for pbs happens. newshour, jamir is with us. take a look. >> i think you called me a liar great to you have all with us. >> let him speak. on national tv. >> what? >> i think you called me a liar >> that's the hashtag's lawyer on national tv. >> let's not do it right now. for lev parnas has used on you want to have that twitter the past few moss and discussion, you called me a yesterday lev spoke. liar. all right. let's not do it now. the indicted rudy giuliani >> i want to say hi, bernie. associate spoke exclusively >> good, okay. yesterday with msnbc's rachel >> tom steyer. maddow. making explosive allegations this is just not okay. about the president, vice >> i don't care. >> and by the way, you can have president and attorney general's a private conversation, there alleged knowledge and have been many in the run up to barack obama, a lot of people involvement in the ukraine had conversations about whether scandal. parnas arrested while trying to or not america was ready for an leave the country is now free on african-american president.

bail after pleading not guilty there's also private to charges of making illegal conversations as to whether or not america is ready to have a campaign donations to republican woman president, and someone can say i think maybe not and should candidates. >> none of whom know him. not be criticized for it. >> one thing he does not deny is i don't know what happened his role in trying to pressure there, but somebody is not the government of ukraine to dig telling the truth, and i have a up dirt on joe biden. bad feeling it might be the accuser. now, just days after handing >> do you know, barack obama over a trove of new evidence to though, he didn't care about the house intelligence those comments. >> of course not. committee, parnas alleges who >> what barack obama understood is americans cared about the else knew about the scheme. fact that george w. bush lied >> president trump knew exactly them into war. what was going on. that's what he believed. that's what they believed. he was aware of all of my that's what history shows. and americans cared about the movements. he, i wouldn't do anything fact that the economy had fallen without the consent of rudy giuliani or the president. i have no intent, no reason to off the cliff. >> just bad. >> i just see this -- speak to any of these officials. i mean, they have no reason to speak to me. >> that moment on the stage, why would president zelensky's those are two small people. inner circle or minister or all >> bernie is being pulled into of these people or president it. >> he was smart, said let's not poroshenko meet with me? who am i? do this. they were told to meet with me he knew there were live mikes. >> we have to go. and that's the secret that they're trying to keep. i was on the ground doing their new book, "running against the work. devil."on thank you.

yeah. it was all about joe biden, hunter biden, and also rude hi a kurt bardella, thank you as well. >> great to have you on as a personal thing with the manafort "mge after the break. hanie ruhlp coverage after the break stuff. the black ledger. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. another thing that they were looking into, but it was never liberty mutual customizes your car insurance about corruption. so y only pay for what you need. it was never -- it was strictly ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ about the burisma which included hunter biden and joe biden. >> parnas also pushed back at president trump's claim that he doesn't know parnas and his co-defendant igor fruman. here's the president back in october. followed by parnas last night. >> i don't know those gentlemen. now, it's possible i have a picture with them, because i [happy ♪irthday music] have a picture with everybody. i have a picture with everybody ♪ here, but somebody said there may be a picture or something at don't get mad, a fund-raiser or somewhere. put those years to work with e*trade. so, but i have pictures with everybody. i have -- i don't know if america's getting sicker. sick of donald trump, there's anybody i don't have pictures -- i don't know them. there are one million more uninsured americans i don't know about them. i don't know what they do. every year under trump. and he's repeatedly tried to repeal obamacare.

but -- i don't know. maybe they were clients of rudy. mike bloomberg will make sure everyone without you'd have to ask rudy. i just don't know. health coverage can get it, >> he lied. and everyone who likes theirs, keep it. i mean, we're not friends. i mean, when you say "friends" i while capping fees to lower costs. mean me and him didn't watch as mayor, he helped expand coverage to seven hundred thousand more people. football games together, we and championed women's reproductive health. didn't eat hot dolls but he knew as president, he'll give access to everyone. exactly he we, especially who i i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. was. i interacted with him on a lot of events. i sat one on one with him on gathering like special round tables only six people at a table. we've had several of those. >> the white house this morning is now reacting to the parnas interview. white house press secretary stephanie grisham telling nbc news, these allegations are being made by a man currently out on bail for federal crimes and is desperate to reduce his (whistling) exposure to prison. the facts haven't changed. the president did nothing wrong, and this impeachment which was manufactured and carried out by the democrats has been a sham from the start.

>> a sham that majority of americans believe actually required the president to be impeached and in many polls removed from office. >> hmm. >> a sham that 70%, 75% of americans want to the see a full and fair hearing of accounting what the president knew and when the president knew it, and peter baker, of course, the president has been caught lying time and time again about the people that he claims that he doesn't know. devin nunes got caught lying about not knowing who parnas was. not knowing about phone calls. but it reminds me. mika, back to papadopoulos who donald trump bragged about in the spring of 2016 as being one of his top minds, and claiming he didn't even know who papadopoulos was and then a picture donald trump and six people around the table and who was there right next to him? papadopoulos. same thing with lev.

claiming he didn't know lev and lev saying, no, no, no. we've seen each other a lot. i've been in small meetings with him. a lot to digest from this extraordinary rachel interview. what's your takeaway? >> fascinating we see this now on the eve of the beginning of the senate trial. it does suggest how much unanswered, how many unanswered questions there still are heading into this procedure and, of course, you know, the republicans are using that to say, look, that's why the house, the investigation was incomplete and in their view shoddy. democrats say that's why the senate needs to have witnesses, hi there. needs to actually dive into this i am stephanie ruhle. like a trial would in a real it is thursday, january 16th. courtroom. bring people out there and get all eyes today are on the evidence. that's what's different than we nation's capital. had 20 years ago. at noon, the impeachment wheels 20 years ago when we began the start turning in the senate for the very first time. clinton impeachment trial. that's when the articles will be not much question about the facts. facts gathered. formally introduced by the house we could argue what they meant managers. and whether they added up to then we'll see another image for the history books. what the managers in that case suggested they did or what the supreme court chief justice john president said they did, but we roberts swearing in all 100

knew what was going on. here, so many strings being senators, and then each one of pulled. learning new things every day. them will swear to seek, quote, the idea the ambassador to ukraine, ambassador to the impartial justice in the president's upcoming impeachment united states of america might have been under surveillance is trial. majority leader mitch mcconnell said the senate is absolutely up a stunning thought. to the the president of the united states is usually charged with protecting american diplomats overseas. in this case looks like his own associates or associates of his associates were somehow involved in that. so, yeah. i think as we start this process today with the arrival of the managers on the floor of the senate and arrival of the chief justice we're reminded how much we still need to know. >> so we haven't seen an official reaction yet from president trump. i checked. haven't seen anything yet. we did hear from rudy giuliani last night after the lev parnas interview. his quote to nbc was that lev parnas was "a sad situation." again a guy who worked hand in glove with lev parnas on this ukraine operation. so, again, you can take with a grain of salt what lev parnas says because of who he is and where he sits and he's indicted

and sort of a shadowing figure except for the fact just about everything he said last night over the course of that hour with rachel and another hour tonight is supported by testimony and information and documents we've already seen and heard. that came out during the impeachment hearing. he just sort of walked rachel through confirming not all but confirms most of what we already knew. >> you're right, willie. the idea is, yes, you can take lev parnas with a grain of salt but he has documents and text messages and letters to back up what he's been saying, and i think something we learned the day before yesterday, which was that he had this letter from rudy giuliani stating clearly, rudy giuliani was working as the personal attorney for president trump in president trump's capacity as a private citizen. what you have there is not only lev parnas now saying that the president knew about all of this stuff but you have rudy giuliani on paper signed saying i am working for the personal interests of president trump. so i think it's going to be hard

for people including president trump and rudy giuliani to say that lev parnas didn't know anything and is making all of this up. also i think if you're a republican senator who's now had john bolton saying he's willing to testify, also watching lev parnas give new information about, and corroborating information you're wondering to yourself, can i really go through this trial and not hear from witnesses? in my reporting from the white house, they expect at least four republican senators maybe more to vote to hear from witnesses meaning lev parnas might actually get to speak at the trial and that will be a kind of bombshell moment, because what we hear from the white house, they don't want to put up a defense of the president. they want to say the president had this, that he had the right to do this, but that this is really all a sham and really unfair. they weren't really willing to play ball in the actual merits of the case because they think that it's something they don't want to have to even deal with. i think now with lev parnas and

john bolton coming out, this is a white house that will have to contend with some of the firsthand accounts coming out. >> so jonathan lemire, we have seen a volume of evidence produced within the last 24 to 36 hours that seemingly would alter any trial if it were a legitimate trial. but we know in the united states senate there are many members of the republican party of the united states senate who refuse to acknowledge even the most basic evidentiary material. so in that sense, do you think that the stain of the trump presidency that has affected so many people around him already is now lapping at the shores of the united states senate? >> i think it is, mike. that's quite the image. you know, to echo what was just said earlier. this is, this called for a moment in history. saw in the '70s republican broke ranks, went to richard nixon

said this is over. you need to walk away. we haven't seen that from any republicans here. that fortitude or courage outside of the oh terrible tweet or statement from a concerned mitt romney or someone like that. there seems to be echoing, you mentioned memento. the white house is bracing itself for a few republican senators to vote to allow witnesses, of course extending this trial, which is something that the white house does not want, and will require them to probably mount some sort of actual robust defense of the president in some way at least. operating as they so often do. the west wing on two tracks. white house wants one thing, the president something else. president trump likes the idea of a showy trial. doesn't want lev parnas being a witness but someone like hunter biden he thinks with exonerate him or the whistle-blower. that goes back to the original point. is there a real sense that republicans will give this a fair and honest hearing? there is any sense that this trial will be just?

what the american people want. according to polling. certainly right now even if we do hear witnesses there's a belief that the outcome of this trial is written. that the president will be acquitted. of course, there are, there is that chance things can change, but it will require some sense of fortitude and political independence from republicans in the senate who to this point have yet to show. >> so here's the cynical political question i have, joe. talking about this off the air. say you're a republican that's made up his or her mind i'm going to acquitce -- >> for like safety? >> -- look better to vote to say we'll have lev parnas sit here. we'll have john bolton. go through the paces of what a trial should look like and then end of that i will vote to acquit saying i don't think there's enough? i don't like what i see but i don't think there's enough here to throw a president out of office, but they're not willing to e go that far and you cannot watch that hour with rachel maddow and lev parnas last night and say in good conscience he

should no be heard from in front of the senate. >> say i were a cynical political -- susan collins, martha mcsally, thom tillis, anybody close to being on the bubble, i would say, the american people -- i'd tell my clients, listen, you need to go out there. and you need to just say, listen, i -- i still have confidence in the president, but the american people are demanding a free, fair, open, transparent trial. let's have that, and let's let the chips fall where they may. i don't know how i'm going to vote in the end, because we haven't heard all the evidence. i just want a free and fair trial, and then at the end, you know, you can say, what jon and i were talking about. you can say, listen, the

president shouldn't have done that. no president should do that, and if you want to defend him and in your conservative area, you can say, he made a misjudgment. everybody makes mistakes and, yes, perhaps should be censured but i'm going to vote to acquit and then you just fill in the blank. negate, 63 million votes, that's an easy call, and what shocks me is, that the most cynical of politicians through the years have done things like that, and not exposed themselves. the level of cynicism is so high here, mike. and i must say the incompetence. the bumbling incompetence of people like susan collins, lindsey graham. >> not knew. >> mitch mcconnell. >> devin nunes. >> here's the thing. >> good lord. >> mitch mcconnell has lowest

approval rating of any senator in their home state. mitch mcconnell has been exposed as being a dupe. for vladimir putin. there's a reason they call him moscow mitch. because you have the intel community that has said the greatest threat to american democracy is russian interference in our elections and moscow mitch has killed even republican measures to protect american democracy. this is a guy that, he doesn't think he's going to have to answer to his voters in kentucky. he thinks that this is like any other year, 2020. it's not. >> yeah, but you know mitch mcconnell, he can turn on a dime. especially, you know, with this new information from lev parnas. could suddenly say, yes -- >> i'm just saying. he is arrogant just like michael cohen was arrogant. lindsey graham is arrogant, just like michael cohen was arrogant.

both might wake up in the fall and realize because of their arrogance, bumbling stupidity of ignoring what americans want, and that is a fair trial, that they're going to pay a heavy price. >> in the fall? >> before we get to the fall, right? >> i'm talking about -- >> how about now? how can they not see? >> i'm talking about facing voters and suddenly the polls in south carolina and the polls in kentucky aren't going the way that they've assumed they'll always go. mike, you and i remember years like 1980. >> yeah. >> when democratic legends. >> uh-huh. >> political gods who were untouchable all went down in one night. you and i remember 1994 when political legends that could never be touched went down. we remember in 1994 when a speaker of the house was beaten by an unknown. these years come, and i'm really surprised that mitch mcconnell

is -- is convincing himself that this is just like any other year, and that he's not protecting other senators. >> well, he lives in an echo chamber. >> that he has created. >> yes. that he has created. katty, have you encountered anyone in the course of following this and with the senate about to begin trial on tuesday, the issue of witnesses and the issue of relevance? i mean, you hear republicans like crazy. jim jordan, and others, saying, well, if they call lev parnas we're going to call hunter biden and joe biden. do you know or have you talked to anyone who know whose is going to rule on the issue of relevance? for instance, is the chief justice going to say about the bidens potentially appearing as witnesses it's not relevant. they're not going to appear? do we know anything about this? >> my understanding, this is the tussle that takes place between

mitch mcconnell and//a chuck schumer. it's not the chief justice. god forbid i have to defer to the professor but i think we do at this point. my understanding is that roberts is there to preside over things and make final rulings but i don't think he's there to set up the rules. the rules are done by mitch. this is the problem that the democrats are in. right? that they have now, with that somber walk yesterday, handed the proceedings over to the republicans, and the only way that we are going to get mitch mcconnell to agree to witnesses is if enough republicans go to mitch and say, we're facing pressure at hole. something like susan collins, got a 50% disapproval rating at home, then she may have to go to mitch mcconnell and say, okay, i can't take this in re-election terms, but i think that's how it's done. >> and do you have anything to add to that? more information on that, issue of relevance? >> it's going to be an

interesting -- we didn't see this last time. chief justice rehnquist relatively restrained figure in the clinton trial. in this case, chief justice roberts to play more of a role. not that they have witnesses. as katty said, a decision by the senate, but questions for, for instance, executive privilege. john bolton called as a witness and the president of the united states were to object say, wait a second. that's executive privilege. will that question go to the presiding judge in effect of this trial? that could be chief justice roberts. would he then make a ruling? even if he did, of course, 51 senators could overrule him on a vote. that's clear from our precedent, but politically, pretty dices to see the senate try to overturn the chief justice on a question whether or not the president had appropriate claim of executive privilege over a key witness in an impeachment trial. hard to imagine how the courts would intervene separately when you have the chief justice literally there in the dias

presiding putting him in an interesting position, a position we haven't seen him in. the chief justice shows up at 2:00 today to take the oath and then administer it to the senators. the public hasn't seen him sis hins confirmation he since his confirmation. >> and the peter baker, thank you very much. >> and donnie, peter brings up john bolton and executive privilege. forgive me for being cynical. but i think john bolton wants to sell his book. >> just going to say the same thing. >> and one way or the other. >> and these people who were saying, you know what? we'll give you bolton. you give us, fill in the blank. i mean, whoever else is called, if the republicans call will not talk about executive privilege, but i guarantee you john bolton

will, and so this whole talk about a trade-off, i'm sorry. you talk about drug deals? i think there's a smaller drug deal going on between bolton and the white house right now. where -- where there's a nod and a wink, yes, i'm going to say that i'll testify knowing perfectly well the second he gets there to testify the white house will claim executive privilege and he'll say, you know what? i came here to testify, but this really does fit under executive privilege, and i'm not going to weaken the presidency and so then republicans call who they want to call. i think the fix is already in here. >> ooh. >> what i do think, though, talking about history and looking back. i think bolton will be the john dean. there's something about that guy. >> who will? >> bolton. >> ah -- >> no, no. in his book you don't think he'll come clean? >> oh, he will in his book but he's not going to in the trial. >> you sure about that? >> yeah, i'm sure. >> i don't know if i agree with

you. this is a guy with a huge ego, dissed, tossed aside. to me, i don't know this man. sitting here watching the cheat sheets like everybody else. i don't agree with you. >> conservative for decades. he may not like donald trump, but he's been around washington enough to know there will be other republican administrations. >> a chance to make history. >> he doesn't care about history. he cares about america displacing vladimir putin and russia and the imolas in iran. he knows there are other f republican administration and he's not going to cross the tribe. he's just not going to. >> we will see. >> i look in his eyes and i see a rogue right there. >> put it on the table. >> you've looked into a lot of people's eyes before and read them wrong, let me just say. >> as my book says. never in doubt. title of my book. >> we're expecting to hear from the white house today.

already heard from stephanie grisham. what do we expect? probably the president taking it on his own to respond? >> well, the president even -- the president has been someone who has wanted to defend himself even when his lawyers and others have tried to counsel him to not be so focused on this. what we can expect from the president, a fierce defense of himself. i'm sure claiming parnas is taking this all up and probably mentions the fact parnas is indicted and he's looking for a deal and a way to not serve a lot of jail time. what the president won't acknowledge the point that parnas is really saying things we knew at least were in the realm of possibilities because of the people testifying before him. this idea that a.g. barr was involved, the vice president was involved, that parnas was taking direction of this from rudy giuliani who was in direct contact with president trump multiple times, the president probably won't be talking about

that, but what we can see from this president is that he feels backed into a corner. taking impeachment very seriously. early on an idea he would welcome impeachment, welcome the idea that democrats are going after him and what we see now is that the president is openly very angry at the fact this is part of his legacy and feeling very, very concerned i think at the fact there's more and more evidence coming out. we can, of course, expect the president to possibly speak about this and i think, of course, tweet about this today. >> yamiche and others, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," ted cruz said we'll see your john bolton and raise you a hunter biden. are republicans willing to accept testimony from the former national security advisers, if the former vice president's son also appears? more on the looming impeachment trial in the senate next on "morning joe."

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witness if they bring john bolton then president trump can bring a witness. he can bring in hunter biden. >> by the way, so, listen. here's the deal. i want all of this, willie, i think we should start a fund. >> aye. >> right? for the -- the -- the -- the, the challenged actors of capitol hill. >> hmm. >> we played a clip yesterday where poor, poor kevin mccarthy was trying to do his best. john gielgud, our olivia, it was horrible. right? and ted cruz, every time ted cruz grows on i'm like, try a little less. just trite a little -- that much less. but maybe we could start a fund. give them acting classes so when we watch them on tv --

>> it doesn't hurt so much. >> yeah. it doesn't shatter your soul in a million pieces. >> come down to the actors' studio, learn a method. >> stan islolsky method. a big year, christer walken there. i was an assistant. >> back during the whole -- "saint elmo's fire" thing. did he do that? >> he was very nice. he looked lovely. >> i know he was! >> it was a hard time for him. so much fame and everybody was coming after him. it was, he was struggling to handle it. >> you just described barnicle's life. we go to prohibition, the poor guy can't get in. people screaming, pulling at his hair. he had a full mop of hair last night before the -- >> a very good festival.

you learn a lot about learning to communicate effectively. put it that way. >> and kevin mccarthy from yesterday. maybe, mika, you can break it down. >> yeah. what went wrong? >> and maybe christopher walken, what advice he would give mccarthy. >> if there's anyone who gained by that it would be anybody running for president that's not in the u.s. senate. with iowa quickly upon us, in early february, those four senators who are returning for president will now no longer have a voice. if you look at the true political nature of why. to harm one campaign and give a benefit to another. the only rightful thing of joe biden is to make a pledge not to campaign, but bernie sanders cannot. >> oh, my god. so bad. willie what technique does he need to use? meissner? >> yeah. meissner. >> not xaccepted into the fete val. nothing he can do that. the worst actor i think i've --

it's painful. >> i don't know about the worst. have you seen ted cruz on a tear? acting shocked, stunned and deeply saddened? >> that is good stuff. but you can't fix that. >> we have business to do. >> yes, we do. joining us now, former assistant united states attorney southern district of new york, mimi rocah. a distinguished fellow in criminal justice at pace school of law and now a candidate for westchester county district attorney. also with us, host of msnbc's "politicsnation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. >> mimi, stay focused on what happened last night. rachel maddow's interview. talk about a bombshell. that was -- that was remarkable. what was your takeaway? >> a bombshell. i mean -- and here's the thing. we can talk and i would love to talk about specific things that parnas said and maddow did an incredible, did an incredible job not just asking him

questions but tying what he was saying to the documents that he's provided and to the text messages and things like that so that republicans are not even necessarily saying he's a liar, because what he said is so bad, so damaging, so incriminating. they're just saying, oh, you yo, kind of, ah, didn't see it. it's hard for them to even attack his credibility given the documents and the evidence he's given over that corroborates. the other thing we really need to focus on. it's so hard. so many scandals with trump. >> right. >> bill barr. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> why is rachel maddow, who i love and respect, being the one to interview lev parnas in this? where is bill barr? bill barr comes out with a statement. department of justice says this is not true. now bill barr is investigating himself and clearing himself? that's not how our justice system works. >> he's -- he's donald trump's

legal bag man. he is donald trump's -- legal hit man. >> and we knew that before, but i think last night really brought that into stark reality al sharpton contrast. stark reality, because you see someone who is implicating the president, giuliani and others in potentially very serious crimes. i mean, put aside impeachment for a second. and our department of justice not only isn't doing anything about it as far as i can tell but sat on this evidence until a judge released it. >> and, willie, the thing is, as jeremy said last hour, all of it. this operation, this drug deal, as john bolton called it, so much of it funded by a russian mobster! >> yes. >> where is the attorney general on that front? >> crazy. >> well, with the other republicans in the senate who don't believe there's anything to see here. mimi, glad you're here as a former prosecutor from the

southern district. lev parnas under indictment in the southern district. people last night and this morning saying this guy, out trying to save his hide. you can't trust him. he's a shady guy. how do you take -- a lot of people saying at the very least take it with a grain of salt. some saying forget what he's saying. how do you take his testimony, no the his testimony but interview with rachel last nift night as a former prosecutor? >> he is a shady guy, just like michael cohen was a shady guy. here's the question. rachel maddow didn't pick him. the southern district didn't pick him. trump picked him. who else will go out and surveil a u.s. ambassador? >> by the way, mimi- -there are republicans saying he's just trying to help himself and -- what he did last night didn't help him legally. there's not a lawyer on the face of the earth that would say, hey, go out and spill your guts on national television. every law, defense lawyer would

say, don't talk. keep your head down. be quiet. what he did last night, he did actually, probably, to protect his physical safety. >> uh-huh. >> what he did last night was probably tried to give himself a life insurance policy and get out there so he didn't end up, well, i'll just say, so -- he just wanted to protect himself, because legally -- >> like stephanie grisham said. >> legally, that is the last thing that any defendant would want to do. >> absolutely right. look, he is in legal jeopardy, facing criminal charges. the only way he can get out from under those charges is to get a cooperation agreement with the southern district of new york, and i say this, and this is like, i've really never said this before. i do not know if he doesn't have a cooperatation -- why he doesn't have a cooperation agreement with the southern district of new york. >> would it be because bill barr is the attorney general? >> and i am concerned first time

in 16 1/2 years i worked at the department of justice, concerned the first time it is because our t. attorney general is so corrupt he is stopping -- >> if he has a deal he's going to implicate barr. any other lawyer, attorney general in u.s. history other than maybe john mitchell would sigh, you know what? i've got to get out of this case. i'm going to turn this over to a special prosecutor. >> oh, yeah. that's not going to happen. >> or give the district attorney the freedom to do this, because i -- i'm the guy that's flying across the globe actually trying to prove conspiracy theories about ukraine. i am so -- barr is so dirty in all of this. he's up to his neck in scandal here, and yet he's still not disassociating himself from this case. and, yeah. we know why lev doesn't have a deal. >> we already have ample evidence of bill barr's

arrogance in dealing with justice and with the law. >> i wish it were just arrogance. >> it is beyond arrogance, but you saw it when his twisted definition of the mueller report was issued. prior to the report being issued and last night the justice department's reaction to rachel's interview was 100% false. that was it. no explanation. but that's something that we're going to have to find out going down the road, but reverend, let me ask you. mimi was talking about parnas, all talking about parnas. shady guy. allegations. but still, this is a trial. what do you do -- what do we do as a country now thinking about the jurors in the trial? otherwise known as united states senators? because in any legal aspect here, you're going to get shady people on the stand. you're going to get allegations on the stand. that just happens every single day in courtrooms across this country.

what do we do about united states senators/jurors who have already said, you know, there's nothing here? >> i think that what you're going to do is you're going to have the public now, particularly after parnas' interview, and bolton saying that he wanted to testify, demand that we want to see a trial. the irony is, rudy giuliani, who has bragged about how he broke the mob, how he was the one that had stopped the mob, that he prosecuted them successfully, how did he do it? he got mobsters to turn on them. he had the mob's parnas' to testify against them. now you have parnas, prepared to testify against him. out of the giuliani schoolbook. he's using his own method of giuliani against him. who else can testify against shady people? the real question is, why were you hanging with shady people, rudy? why were you taking photographs,

mr. president, with shady people? you're all in the shade together. i think that that is what they're going to have to deal with, with the public, because either you are a part of the shade or a part of the sunshine, and let us bring into the sunshine all of the people that's been hiding under the shade and see what's really there. >> and by the way, i mean, if they want to see where this ends up, just look at poor, old, devin nunes. like, nunes, he lied about not knowing parnas. and last night he was outed. he had to admit that he was allier. that when it came to parnas. >> right. >> mike pence is so exposed. does mike pence really think he gets away with this? i mean -- because -- nobody's going to get -- it's all out. like, they've lifted up the rock. the cockroaches are going to be running around all over the place, and none of these people want to have them come, you know, crawling up their leg. they need to get in front of this.

>> absolutely. you have now seen, you are seeing and joe, the cockroaches and bedbugs are united and headed to school. >> wait a minute. nobody brute up dorell. inching, itches right now because have a bedbug infestation. imagine going to dorell and getting bedbugs all over? go ahead. >> seeing uniting of -- i think history will say that the interview with parnas and him coming forward will either determine whether we have a fair trial or whether we lose senate seats and possibly the white house. this is a real turning point, because he was so good in terms of how rachel brought him to connect documents with testimony, that i don't care how shady he is, there was so much there to america now wanting to know what it is he has to say, and put him under

cross-examination. beat him down. prove him to be a liar but don't just tell us he's a liar. >> mimi, the truth in all this. yes, call it a bombshell interview last night because it was. what he really did was confirm a series of bombshells already presented to us over the course of the impeachment hearing from maria yovanovitch, sondland, hill, lieutenant colonel vindman. list goes on and on. if lev parnas was the first voice on the ukraine story. wait a minute. who is this guy? what's he talking about? is he inventing a story? he's come at the end of the process and all he's done confirm documentary and testimony's evidence. >> right. but that all he's done is what's so important. what rev was talking about. if anybody watches parnas' interview, her interview of parnas, everything he says makes total sense to us, because we've heard the story. this is like the final chapter and it's not like you hear parnas saying what? you hear what he's saying and say, oh, yeah.

remember, marie yovanovitch was scared? we heard about text messages trying to get the president of ukraine to make the statement? look at the timing of those, right after the phone call between trump and the president of ukraine. so everything fits together. this is what investigators and prosecutors do in criminal cases as you said every day all across the country, they connect the dots. parnas is like the middle, big dot. you know? the hub connecting everything. and the idea that we're going to have an impeachment trial and he's not going to get to testify under oath and as you say, fine, challenge him. but you know what? i think he holds up under challenge. i mean, there is just too much there that corroborates what he's saying from other witnesses who have never spoken to lev parnas in their life. marie yovanovitch and lev parnas have a lot of the same things to say? they've probably never even been in the same room together. that's incredible. that's corroboration. >> and, rev, one thing if you

have testimony. if this guy had fallen out of the skies, i have this incredible story to tell you're not going to believe, but, it's actually the sequencing. it's perfect. because you have the whistle-blower, why the way, what the whistle-blower saying now is actually pretty boring compared what what we'to what w. and step by step it's built to this moment and he's got the documents. that -- that hotel note from vienna where he laid the entire conspiracy out on a small little note pad. it fits, and any prosecutor would look at it. bill barr, if he were a prosecutor instead of the president's hinchman, bill barr would look at that and say we've got to move on this. guess zelensky to announce the biden case will be invest gatd -- investigated. start communication with

zelensky. he laid out the entire drug deem. >> and has the documents that corresponds with it. bolton, said he would testify. who got this huge advance to write a book. nobody gives you a big advantage to write complementary words about trump. >> right. >> obviously, he's saying something. he can't testify to something he's got in the book, the opposite of. i think the president has reason to have real concern here, and who would have that blinkirink bringing in rudy giuliani, the one who locked up all the shady people, would be the one to lock up your presidency and pull the curtain. >> really, rudy giuliani is responsible for the impeachment of donald john trump. no historian won't come to this conclusion. this is all on giuliani's shoulder and it keeps getting worse because of giuliani's bumbling. it's just -- it's shocking. >> reverend al, thank you both for being on.

mimi and rev. coming up, would we allow a small town mayor to lie every day about town business? how about a chair of the local school board? what about the president of the united states? our next guest says the american people need to ask themselves a fundamental question. do we have the right to accurate information from our white house or not? that discussion is next on "morning joe." we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started.

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i know it's something called the miss universe pajtss yeerg ago. we had a winner from ukraine. and we've really had -- we got to know the country really well. >> we have the greatest economy we've ever had. >> and the wall is going up, many miles a week. a world trade organization was not one of the greats. not one of the greats. that was the creative of china which went like a rocket ship from the day they signed. >> it's a great trade deal, the greatest we've ever had. nafta was a horrible trade deal. it replaces nafta. >> many of the japanese countries are now building their plans in the united states. big ones going up in south carolina, florida.

>> all that from president trump. our next guest points out every one of those statements is a provable lie. sharise joins us now. good morning. it's good to have you on. you have an extraordinary statement in your piece. you write, i've never encountered a public official, a defense lawyer or frankly an actual criminal who is as regularly and aggressively dishonest as the current president of the united states. it started right from the beginning. i think -- remember there was a quaint idea way back when that the president would pivot from campaign mode to presidential mode. that evaporated the money sean spicer stood up and started disputing on the first day of their administration the size of the crowds at the inaugural

parade. >> that's right. in fact, it started a couple of hours before that when the president was at the cia headquarters in langley. and started talking about the dishonest news media and they lied about the crowd side and i had more than barack obama and just look. come on, he was in front of the memorial wall of the cia and complaining about the crowd size coverage? that to me was stunning. and it hasn't changed. >> how do you cut through that as someone who tries to get truth from the white house who hasn't been able to sit for a press briefing in god knows how long. how do you get to the truth as a reporter from this white house? >> well, it's a challenge. a lot of folks complain about the press briefings. i'm not one of them because they used to lie during the press briefings. i don't know what great valuable they were in terms of getting accurate information out. this is a big deal. and what brought it home, to me, was when they -- when the president went off about the

hurricane. hurricane dorian and whether it was going hit alabama and so forth. well, 20 years of my career were in florida. and every governor that i covered, you don't mess with the hurricane forecast. you don't mess with the evacuation. you don't mess with that. that's claiming that he was right, the meteorologists were wrong.