this team, we know dershowitz. he's argumentative. i sometimes thinks he takes points of view just to be there.

>> he says the president can't really put himself in trouble by abusing power because all presidents abuse power. that was his argument. >> that's wrong as a matter of the constitution. ith think there's two objective. the first is about not calling witnesses. he wants to make the case that even if everything that the articleer suggests trump did ar true, the facts don't matter. under the constitution, his argumentti is it doesn't rise t the kind of high crime or misdemeanor that o is necessary for remooval from office. if you look at the history, that's wrong. what trump is accused of doing, abuse of office, it's what the framers had in mind. thein concerns that someone lik trump would reach office. and the second thing quickly is to give republican senators some cover for not voting to remove trump. they can say it's not just trump's own white house counsel

and his own personal lawyers. these two respected legal scholars also believe that the president should not be removed from office. >> let's take a look at what dershowitz said moments ago on this network. abuse of power even if proved is not anro impeachable offense. that's what the framers rejected. they didn't want congress to have that power. theyto have to prove treason, bribery or other crimes and misdemeanors. >> you're making news about what arguments you'll make. the news you're making is, quote, abuse of power, in your argument does not constituten a highs crime? you wanted to charge him as a crime, they charged clinton with specific crimes and with nixon. but they didn't -- here they haven't charged him with specific crimes as part of the articles of impeachment.

>> we'll see. this is an argument. it goeses back, i think, i don't know why dershowitz is arguing this. high crimes and misdemeanors are meant to be basically a political act, abuse of power, taking the presidency and using it in ways it shouldn't be used under the constitution. >> we've had a number of people, not the president but other lower officials removed from things familiar about misusing their power. we have the governor of illinois going to jail for a similar thing of trying to withhold a thing of valuehh and trying to t something for it. whether it's a political favor or money, we have an entire corruption section to go after people to abuse their power. it's clear what the president has done in withholding aid to try to force another country to investigate his political rival is really the kind of abuse of power that the framers were warning against. >> george, you wrote well recently about the abuse of

power by presidents with regard to war making. dershowitz is saying a president can take us into war against switzerland if he wants because there's no crime against it. >> well, we did go to war against libya seven months, probably the longest assassination attempt in world history. we succeeded the regime change in libya, and republicans said at the time that was an abuse of power. the danger with then abuse of power standard for impeachment is that whenever you have the presidency in one party's hands and the congress in another, you could have -- you could come up with a standard for saying that the president has abused power. in some sense, it's in the eye of the beholders and the beholders always find abuse of power. >> what about the theatrics bringing in dershowitz. you studied under him, i believe. he also outside the world of the law is the world of theater. he shares that with trump.

there's a reason he's always on television. he takes the cases like oj or classified where he made his name. how is he going to change the theater here? i get the feeling having just on aus ri melber's show, he's goin to be making the case. >> he's an int lint lek wall. he's an advocate for his clients. he'll get down and dirty on fox tv and msnbc. to make the political case as well as the legal case. again, it will be interesting to see how he duos over politically. >> i don't know how they're going to have a case or a trial where they avprevent the inflow the avalanche of evidence that just keeps coming in. anyway the house of representatives released more from lev parnas including new

text messages that show extensive contact between parnas and devin nunes who is a ranking member on intelligence. i wanter to bring in josh letterman with the news. josh. >> chris, i want to say from the get go we are just going through these documents. a whole trench that's just come out. there's aha lot in there. but there's new information in there about this story line we've been following over the last couple days about robert hyde, this republican congressional candidate who told lev parnas he had some type of a surveillance operation on ambassador peyovanovitch. earlier today robert hyde pointed the finger on twitter at someoneit else, another trump supporter, that he identified as anthony decaloway who he said provided him the information and heim copied and pasted it to le parnas. we spent part of the day trying toay figure out if that was

accurate or not, and now in these new documents that come out from the house, we can see that they're essentially what happened was somebody using a belgian phone number and a photographmb that matches antho decaloway sent this mes samg to robert hyde. and then he forwarded screen shots of those messages to lev parnas. so what he was saying earlier today about getting this information secondhand. fromat what we can tell from th new documents, appears to be corroborated. a voice mail, an audio message included from what was turned over by parnas from -- that he had gotten from hyde where you hear an accented voice say it's confirmed, she's in ukraine. we can't tell at this moment the voice in that, but it's further evidence

that there were a lot of back and forth messages about ambassador yovanovitch's where abou abouts. whether the details were correce or this was somebody making stuff up, we have yet to be able to tell that. but as we know, the state department and ukraine's interior ministry are investigating this. >> thank you so much josh with the latest report. this thing keeps growing. someone said during water gate, i read it in a bar in greenwich village, water gate is india. this gets more and more entangled. more and more tangents to the point where the ukrainian government is invaestigating this. >> ukraine is a place where there is a tremendous amount of surveillance and lots of people, all these oligarchs have private security services. the idea there are security services for hire out there is entirely possible. and very clearly the state

department was concerned for her safety and rushed her out of the country. but this is something that we really need to get to the bottom of. it's one of the things that we really hope that the government takeshe seriously. threats against the united states ambassador are threats to the united states. these aree people who serve as the representatives of our entire nation abroad. >> george, this is a strange case, because it's like the beginning of water gate rather than the end. i mean, you have all the stuff we're learning right now. this character, robert hyde who was a barra fly over the trump hotel. he apparently went to the expensive bar there, made friends with people, got to know parnas, got to know rudy, and they're all working somehow in the interests of president trump. >> if these gifters make the water gate burglars look like ph.d.'s. >> carter page? > exactly. what we're talking about is another boulder in the avalanche of information, but none of it matters because the republicans are willing as the lawyers say,

to stipulate that everything said against mr. trump is true. they're saying it's irrelevant, because of the reason mr. dershowitz just said. it's irrelevant because unless you can point to a clear federal crime, it does not matter. >> right. and that, of course, paul butler, we have the fact that he broke the law with regard to impounding funds approved by congress, but that doesn't carry a criminal sanction. the amendment years ago with regard to aid to latin america. it's not necessarily a crime. it's just against thesa law. >> and, in fact, high crime and misdemeanor as stated in the constitution does not refer to specific statutory crimes. in fact, chris, those kinds of crimes didn'tth even exist at t time the constitution was written. high crime and misdemeanor is a term -- understood by all the founders to mean corruption. mall administration. someonen. obtaining the high por of being theta president of the united states and using thatsi extraordinary power for their

own personal ends. >> why is dershowitz, your former mentor to some extent, why is he out there basically showing off to be blunt about it? and saying the constitution doesn't allow for the prosecution of a president and impeachment of a president unless you have some criminal code he violated? why is he saying that? >> he was a great law professor. he was one of the reasons i wanted to be a criminal lawyer. he's a much better criminal lawyer than a constitutional lawyer. he's wrongon on the constitutio here, and again, i think he's using his status in a way that's not appropriate that's not becoming. he's emeritus professor. i don't know if he's e trying t be relevant, but it's dangerous for the nation that he might be effective with the republicans. again, he will use his status to give them cover to not remove the president from office. >> well, at this table we have one of the country's great conservative commentators. my question, what happened to

the idea of limited government. isn't that the heart of conservativism limited power? >> and not including the president. especially the president. the growth ofpr executive power throughout the 20th century is the biggest threat to the institutionalo equilibrium designed. and progressives, yes, msnbc listeners, the progressives have given us the inflated presidency, and i wonder if they're enjoying it. >> we'll see. i think we enjoyed franklin roosevelt now. thank you very much. coming up with opening arguments in the impeachment trial just days away now, it's coming ittuesday, can we expect any senate defectors from the gop that has increasingly become the party of trump? will senators like mitt romney who flirts with greatness, lisa murkowski has guts, toe the party line or push for a fair trial. plus shocking new excerpts

from an upcoming meeting where the commander in chief called a room ofle top military brass dos and babies. with just weeks to go until the iowa caucuses, three of the five top presidential candidates will find themselves locked in the senate chamber for the impeachment trial of president trump. what will the final daysac in ia look like without senator sanders, saturday warren, senator klobuchar. we have much more to get to tonight. history is coming upon us. stick with us. us. ♪ $12.99 all you can eat now with boneless wings. only at applebee's.

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welcome back. as the senate impeachment trial begins all eyes on a hand full of republican senators who hold the cards to determine whether they hear from witnesses or not. witnesses. "the washington post" writes the trial will effect the legacy of senators and their party. being a republican during the

trump presidency demands much. he is quick to anger at any republican who strays from absolute loyalty. a lot of attention has been paid to five republican senators seen as potential votes for witnesses in a trial in recent days. including retiring senator la rar alexander of tennessee and cory gardener up for a tough reelection. "the wall street journal" reports that alexander expressed openness to hearing witnesses and is in political war against president trump. his career is pretty much behind him. senator gardener has dodged questions about where he stands. a local station couldn't get a straight answer when they dodged him. >> are you open to new witnesss? >> we have trial. that's where we are right now. >> you talk about impartiality,

is it possible for any senator to be impartial in the trial? >> that's their constitutional duty and the oath we took. >> i know you hosted a fundraiser for president trump. he's promised to campaign for you. how do you plan to maintain that impartially? >> there are people running against trump in the senate. we have a duty to be impartial. >> i charlie, i owe you an apollty. i couldn't believe it. you were right. you had every time. i'll let you start with tonight. what do you hear about the magic republicans that might break with the pack and give us a real trial? >> i think it's possible. look, i mean, i'm used to disappointment. here it is lucy with the football, but this is a relatively easier vote than voting to convict.

you need four republicans to say we need to hear from the witnesses and think about all the things we have learned since that house vote since nancy pelosi held the impeachment. the emails that we've received. lev parnas coming out. john bolton saying he's willing to testify. the gao report. so i think the pressure on republicans is going to be very, very intense. not to ignore this, plus think about the risk if they obstruct those witnesses and obstruct that evidence if more things come out then their votes become absolutely toxic. >> i was talking about the sense i get with this cornucopia of stuff coming out. it hits us at 6:30 at night. we have to get it into the show like we did about the whole thing with yovanovitch and the surveillance. it's getting larger and larger. how do you shut it down and go back to any group and say we got to the truth? >> trump is basically asking

them to exonerate him without having any idea really what they're exonerating him of and what's going to pop out later. in some ways, it's just in their interest to get it out there and know what's out there before they take the vote so they don't have to answer for it later. the other thing and you see it with martha mcsally. she had a thuggish outburst at a cnn reporter who asked if he was open to evidence. it's a really pathetic and grotesque display. after all that, she goes on fox news and she still won't answer the question of whether she wants witnesses. it's a hard call for someone like mcsally. think about how much of a harder call it is for susan collins. >> the arizona senator appoint to the office went on the attack when a cnn reporter dared to ask her if they should hear evidence. >> should the senate consider

new evidence? >> you're a liberal hack. i'm not going to talk to you. >> i guess she didn't see the camera. within hours however mcsally running to keep her seat was out there fundraising off that little incident. in an interview with fox she was asked if she regretted the insult to the reporter. >> no, laura, i do not. and i said it again, actually, as i went in. i said you're a liberal hack. they're so biassed. they are so in ka hoots with the democrats. they can't stand the president and they run around trying to chase republicans and ask trapping questions. i'm a fighter pilot. i called it like it is. >> but mcsally, the senator, wasn't quite prepared to call it like it is when the host, good for her, loriling ram flipped the script. >> what about the question, do you want witnesses you can call me a conservative hack, but do you want witnesses? yes or no? why aren't you telling us?

>> because we're going to vote on tuesday to start the trial, and let them present the -- >> how are you going to vote on the motion for witnesses? >> we're going to get to that. i'm not going to tell everybody my votes but -- >> it's an easy question, don't you think, senator? >> what's this? making this chuckle worthy. that's a new thing you do when you have an unpleasant get. you get a giggle and laugh it off. i think laura ingraham nailed her. she wasn't ready for a simple question. do you want to have a vote? do you want to vote for witnesses or not? >> well, yeah. and what you saw there was a display of petulant hack hackerd trumpism. this is the cheap play for republicans who don't want to answer the questions and may feel uncomfortable defending trump's conduct right now. just lash out at the media. this is the low-hanging fruit that somehow that you insult a

reporter, by the way, who by all accounts is respected by both sides who is just doing his job asking a straightforward question. and then spiking the football. look, the fact is that martha mcsally is trailing in arizona. mark kelly is raiding more money than she is. i think she looks cheap. i think she looks desperate. i think this is going to backfire on her. i think it also reflects the kind of pressure that's going to be on the senators over the next couple weeks. this is not going to be an easy vote for republicans. >> yeah. you know, michelle, when i read your column, i know how smart you are. i mean, you can't fake it with a column twice a week. you have brain and thoughts and imagination and creativity, and you understand. you ask yourselves the right questions and try to come up with the right answers. that's the process of running a column. that appointed senator acts like she's never considered the most obvious questions like are you for witnesses? >> well, i think one thing to

know about mcsally, she is the only senator who lost her most recent senate election. i mean, as you said, appointed senator. and so she's in a very rough position. she needs to rile up the base. she needs to fundraise. this was also a fundraising ploy, and at the same time, she's in a very purple state that might not take kindly to her participating in the coverup that trump wants. >> it's so great to ask her questions, though. because you always get a reaction. thank you, michelle. great columnist. charlie, again, you were right last time. i'll keep score. up next, president trump reportedly calls military commanders dopes and babies. this is mr. bone spur talking. he said they don't know how to win. he never tried to win. plus more of that new evidence out tonight from lev parnas trying to get to the fire hi hydrant of news.

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under the leadership of barack obama and hillary clinton the generals have been reduced to rubble. they have been reduced to a point where it's embarrassing for our country. >> i know more about isis than the generals do. believe me. >> they don't know much, because they're not winning, that i can tell you. >> welcome back to "hardball". that was donald trump talking

about the top military leaders. in private his tirade against them went further once he won the presidency calling top generals losers to their faces. that was the word he used. that's according to an upcoming book by washington post reporters. it's called "a very stable genius". the book is out, i believe. a new excerpt released in the washington post describes the president lashing out during a pentagon meeting in the summer of 2017. quote, you're all losers, trump said. you don't know how to win anymore. he added i wouldn't go to war with you people and then referred to them as a bunch of dopes and babies. these are generals he's talking to. i'm joined by ted from california. a former active duty office who serves as a member of the air force reserves. jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense. congressman, thank you for your service and thank you for coming on tonight. this treatment, this treatment

of our top military people, how do you react to it? >> thank you, chris, for your question. donald trump would have more credibility and criticizing our military leaders if he had served in the military, but he didn't. he allegedly had a bone spur of which no credible person could verify. he escaped the draft when many people were risking their lives, and he lacked courage. he didn't even have that to serve. to criticize military leaders is beyond the pale. >> it's the tank, where the top joint chiefs meet to have their most critical discussions, and he uses it for addressing one of all of them. everyone in the room as losers. it seems like -- i hate to make the head rick connection, but it looks like movies where you see the guy trashing the generals because they're losing the war. it seems like an eight-year-old talking to the grownups.

>> so it's really obnoxious. it also shows he doesn't value service. the people in that room do not get paid a lot of money. some of them risk their lives to go fight. and what we have here is a person who is largely ignorant. if you read the excerpt from the book, doesn't know a lot about the world and saying we should be deploying military troops and making a profit. military troops are not mercenaries. we should not make a profit. the military leaders should not have been dressed down and i think the president should apologize to the military leaders. >> someone years ago advised me how to deal with government officials. they said i want to be not too crude, but these are the words. he said people don't do their best work when they're being paid peeed on. >> and the context of this was as you referenced on the tank where the joint chiefs meet. i've been in that room.

the most kwons kwen shl di decisions are made in that room. and here's trump. his owned a vi advisers realize doesn't understand the world or care to understand the world. he shows he's arrogant. he's disrespectful. he's condemning them for their expertise, and third, he's a neo isolationist. he's saying we shouldn't have a military in the world. it's totally inconsistent with national security. >> it's the kind of guy you talk to in a bar. the house released new material tonight from lev parnas including the text messages that show extensive contact between him, parnas, and a staffer to a ranking republican on the house intelligence committee, nunes. it shows a senior investigator

was working to get material about the 2016 election. the old conspiracy. if new evidence includes a slew of new pictures of parnas with the president's son, giuliani, and mike brown. congressman, congressman, what do you make of this? one of your colleagues who sits as ranking republican on the intel committee investigating himself? no. doesn't matter. he doesn't go after himself even though he's a party to this. >> let me first disclose that the lawyer for devin nunes wrote me a letter threatening he will see me if i don't apologize for saying he conspired with lev parnas. it turns out based on text messages and the record and the amazing interview on the rachel mad d maddow show that i'm right. i said they can take the letter and shove it. with the additional evidence,

it's even more damning, especially for the staff to devin nunes. i think right now devin nunes should not be sitting on the house intelligence committee. he needs to be removed. >> i don't understand legislators have a job. that's their lane that they work in. they vote. they write legislation. they try to figure out what's wrong and try to right it. they're not operational. they don't operate like ollie north got in trouble. he's an adviser to the president. he's running missiles over to iran. i mean, these guys -- why -- you've worked for the government. why would the u.s. congressman get stuff to come back down the next day and give it to the next wing working as a staffer for the president? >> that's right. his constitutional responsibility under article one is to be an overseer. to conduct oversight and be a check on executive branch power and policy. instead, he's gone to the other side. he's basically decided i'm going to work for trump and help him

advance this false narrative about ukraine. i'm going to help him politically so he can win reelection and maybe reward me with more. >> congressman, again thank you for your service and being here tonight. here we are in the very eve of a senate trial for this president. and yet, as we sit here, the news keeps coming through over the transom through the door rushing like a flood. we keep learning more about surveillance of an ambassador in kiev. it looks like she was being harassed or they scared her enough to have her yanked out of the country she was so -- had such reason to be afraid. what is going on here? there's so much information. are we going to get this in a trial or is it going to be kept out of the door? >> right. we absolutely need a full and fair trial in the senate. it's ridiculous of a question like should we have witnesses not being answered. that should be yes. who heard of a trial without any witnesses and documents. then we should take a step back

and understand that dprump onalp is the first republican president to be impeached. and it's for abusing his power, soliciting foreign interference in our election. no one is above the law. no one should be treated differently because they're president. every trial has witnesses and documents and that's what we should have in the senate. >> thank you both for your expertise. a quick programming note. "the washington pos the authors of trump's presidency next tuesday. this is a great book. by the way, i sell books here. because i like them. this book is fun to read. if you've been following me, this is tuesday they're coming. this book is fun to read. it's candy for people who love to follow politics, even if it's horrible in the nature. still ahead with the caucuses weeks ahead, what will iowa look like without three of the top democratic candidates because they're going to be in

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with president trump's impeachment trial in session, a number of 2020 democratic hopefuls have been sidelined locked into the senate chamber, you might say. of the 12 democrats running for president, four of them will be out of commission as they assume their duties a jurors in the impeachment trial of president trump. some of the senators were asked if they were worried about being off the trail. >> are you concerned about how this will effect your campaign? >> yeah, i am. i would rather be in iowa today. there's a caucus there in two and a half weeks. i'd rather be in new hampshire and in nevada and so forth, but i swore a constitutional oath as

a united states senator to do my job, and i'm here to do my job. >> it is my constitutional duty, and when i can go campaign in those early states including nevada and south carolina, i will. but when i have to be there, i will. >> the way i think is it's out of my control. i have to be there to fulfill my constitutional responsibility. >> nbc news spoke to a hand full of new hampshire voters about the new reality. f >> are you cutting people any slack who can't come out and talk in person? >> very little. you know, if elizabeth warren and bernie sanders, if i don't know enough about them already. >> are you cutting them any slack? >> i think so. i think they're doing the responsibility by being where they need to be in congress. that's a really important thing they're doing down there, too. >> that's true. the senators' absence from the campaign trail couldn't come at a worse time.

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iowa voters say they have not made up their minds yet. that's, well, they have made up their minds. nearly have, 45 said they could be persuaded to vote for another candidate. if you put the numbers together, three fifths of iowa democratic caucus goers are up for grabs. it's an astounding thing this. with a neck and neck race, it could be anybody's game. for more i'm joined by lily adams and jamaal simmons. lily, you're fresh off the trail. >> yeah. >> what do you think? four people in their seats in the u.s. chamber. everybody wants to sit in that chamber, but they're stick there. >> yes. if it's two weeks to the caucus, you want to be in iowa talking to caucus goers, recruiting captains. i was saying i think the hardest thing is they're going to be in

washington d.c. and have to be silent. that's the worst thing you can ask for if you're a candidate. i do think iowa caucus goers will watch the proceedings and be wanting the response from the senators each night on your show and others. >> we'll senators on your show and others. >> we'll be grabbing them. >> they will get to see them on the tv. but there's no substitute. >> we'll have good guests next couple weeks. >> they'll be available. >> they'll be available. we'll get our share at 7:00. but it seems to me they can't -- they're not allowed to have gadgets in there, no phones, nothing. can't sneak calls to their people. the minute they're off they'll be skyping, right, won't they, be doing everything. >> you can't have reading materials. it's like high school detention, sit there and pay attention to what's happening in class all day. i think it's going to be tough for a lot of these candidates. the one senator who may not be in as bad of shape as the others is bernie sanders. his people are so fervent and so tough. >> that's 20% right there.

>> his numbers don't move that much. i'm not sure if there's anything he could do that would sway anyone away from him. can he sway anybody toward him? i don't know. >> the war position on vietnam and now the iran situation is an ideological rallying cry the other candidates don't have right now. let me ask you how they're going to use -- can they -- the senators' role in the trial as i understand it is you go to jail, basically, if you talk. it's the real quiet car. >> yeah, yeah. >> so they can't raise interesting questions even in the supreme court, you can do that, they can't put up their hand like bernie or elizabeth does. >> no one's calling on them. roberts isn't going to be calling on each of them one by one. >> like kennedy in the debate with nixon, for studious, look pensive, show physical connection. >> they'll come out of the chamber and talk to a camera and give their analysis of what happened and i do think in a normal year this would be a

horrible, horrible thing for candidates but i do think every democrat in the country, every person in this country is going to be paying attention to what's going on in this trial, is going to want to know what these candidates have to say. they are going to be a part of the story going on. i think also for the candidates in iowa who are going to be able to be there they have to figure out how to be part of this story as well that everyone is going to be paying attention to for the next couple weeks. >> iowa's got one hour or two, central time. they can get out of there at 6:00 or 7:00. >> at 6:00 it's over. >> they get two hours to talk to people in the early evening and then get prime time time at home. if they set up an operation here with a camera, they should be -- especially if bernie or elizabeth comes out and says i've got to tell you what happened in the hearing today. >> people will listen. >> surrogates will matter too. you have to have a topnotch operation. somebody sitting around with a big calendar, who can we slot here and there that's going to matter in these smaller

communities. you have to have somebody present, to get the organizing benefit of having people show up. >> how yucky is it going to be one of those people who's not been drafted into the service like biden and buttigieg. they're out there, walking around and saying how come you're not fighting the war against trump. why are you out here? does it embarrass them a little to be able to skip the trial? >> i don't think so. look, a candidate's time is so valuable to be right there face to face with iowa voters. the population of the democratic caucus is no bigger than 300,000 people. every last person is going to matter. when you're looking at that des moines register poll, everybody is neck and neck. again, if you had to put a gun to my head, i'd pick to be in iowa. >> i'll put a gun to your head for bigger issues. what do you think about biden talking about ant kamala harris as a running mate. >> i'm a big fan of senator

harris, she'd be a fantastic running mate for somebody. >> would she accept? >> you'd have to have her on the show to ask. >> would she accept? >> i think she should. >> i don't think you ask if you -- >> i think she should. listen, i think one thing that happened after the kamala harris race is there was a little bit of -- maybe rejector's remorse, a big wave that went through, people said maybe we were too tough on her, held her to a standard that's unacceptable. >> is that what you think? >> i think in some ways, yeah. >> i kept asking around with people of color. saying what's her problem? >> she's a prosecutor. >> you heard that stuff early. the question is, is anybody else going to be held to that standard. people don't say that about amy klobuchar. the question becomes what happens if she gets on the national ticket? at which point there's a rallying effect around kamala harris. people say forget about all that, we have a chance to get this great woman into the white house, let's do it.

>> bobby kennedy was a prosecutor, ted kennedy, joe kennedy iii was a prosecutor, not a bad way to bring yourself up. used to be the way you got to be governor of new york. >> now with a lawless president, you need a prosecutor. >> doing this for a living. thank you so much, there for cam . up next, chief justice roberts, i don't think he'll be a potted plant for three weeks. cologuard: colon cancer screening for people

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call me an optimist, call me a romantic, but i have high hopes for chief justice john roberts. i've got a reservoir of optimism. he will serve more of a role in this senate impeachment trial than that of a potted plant. i believe he will be a true judge, deciding at one point that the trial cannot be considered fair without the calling of witnesses and i can only assume there will be opportunities for him to to make to call. maybe the case of a tie vote or a point in the possession of evidence. the only way to weigh the evidence is with the fact witnesses, certifying the authenticity of documents and certain conversations. when there's an argument, wouldn't prudence suggest the fact witness be heard? the chief justice will be forced to decide whether to allow himself to be part to a procedure that produces a cover-up or to push the

procedures in order to hold a trial and pursue the truth. so here's to the justice and to the chief justice who can help deliver it. that's "hardball" for now, stick with us, "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on "all in". i could use some good legal advice. >> the president names his legal team. >> i could use some good lawyers, right. >> as the pressure for witnesses builds. tonight what we've learned during the pelosi pause. >> i'll send them over when i'm ready. >> how that can change the trial. >> he has been impeached. he's been impeached forever. >> the dershowitz defense of trump. >> it is a game changer. plus, exploring the jeffrey epstein connections to the trump legal team. >> find out the people that went to the island. and new alarms over who the president's attorney general is choosing to investigate. >> he became that powerful when he got william barr.

>> yeah