the team. >> abuse of power even if proved is not an impeachable offense. that is exactly what the framers rejected. they didn't want to give congress the authority to remove a president because he abused his power. they have to prove trees on atr bribery, but other crimes and miss demeanor, other refers to crimes of the kind such as treason and bribe r treason and bribery. >> so the quote, abuse of power, does not constitute a high crime under the constitution? >> that is exactly right. >> opening statements are expected to begin by mid week. and the president addressed the time line during a religious freedom event at the white house last week. >> it is a hoax. it is a hoax. everybody knows that. it is a complete hoax. everything was perfect and they impeach. it is totally partisan.

>> with me now reporter with the "times" and also car loss curbelo. eli, let's start with you. let's dive into the defense team which appears to be largely a group of tv lawyers. real lawyers, but seen a lot on tv. and considering the impeachment proceedings are basically a made for television trial, i wonder if you think is this a good strategy or not. >> well, the president has lived by this strategy so far through the mueller investigation and he feels like it is the right strategy to fight these legal battles mostly in the court of public opinion. we all know how much importance the president gives to people who can perform on television, how much television he consumes. and you know, as you point out, dirs witne dershowitz is coming in because the president has seen him on tv, he has gotten comfortable with him and this is a person who can come in and look to the country as if here is a harvard professor, a guy who spent his whole career arguing the law and

he will basically deliver trump's own fifth avenue argument that he can do anything he wants and get away with it about and that is what dershowitz will put a legal scholarly gloss on to. and ken starr, same thing. he is a fixture on fox news. so has pam bondi. the through line is their ability and history of performance on television. and that is what the president wants. he wants a combative defense in front of the cameras. >> so interesting that the white house strategy almost always seems to go this way, deny a thing for as long as you can and then pivot to say it isn't as bad as what they admit to. congressman, i want to ask you about the house managers. you have known to some degree almost all. i wonder what your thoughts are about the ooem team that speaker pelosi has picked here. >> and what most stands out to me is that all of these impeachment managers are close

allies in some cases close friends of nancy pelosi. it is very obvious to me that the speaker wants very tight control over this whole process,off the messaging, over the nature of the arguments that are made. that is why truly even though jerrold nadler is the chairman of the judiciary committee which passed out the articles, this process is being led by adam schiff who is nancy pelosi's top lieutenant. she wants a sober process, she is someone who was never too excited about impeachment in the first place. and so the speaker wants to make sure that messaging, that they don't appeal too zealous on camera. and they do have this challenge that chairman nadler and others are more technocrat tick in the way that they make their acts. clearly that is not what the president's team is goingtick i way that they make their acts.

clearly that is not what the president's team is going for. grs they are going for entertainment and moving public opinion and democrats have to be aware of that strategy because at the end of the day, although the 100 senators are the jury, the court of public opinion is the only one that could really change the expected outcome of this trial. >> you talk about ratings in the t vchlgt part of it, yet the white house chose not to include jim jordan, mark meadows, other vocal dependeer dependers of th president. do you support that? >> i think that they want both, people who can make strong legal arguments, attorney, and jim jordan and others are not attorney, but the as eli said, people who are known quantities, who americans can tune in and say yeah, i've sethat person before, that is a relate putable lawy receipt putable lawyer. >> and there has been chatter about the role that john roberts might play.

is it your sense that either side either the managers or the white house expect him to be a big player in this or are they expecting a more hands off chief justice? >> that is maybe what the biggest unknown here. even kind of has a sense of how the republicans are going to play this, how the house managers will come in, that there a lot of daylight between them. no one really knows where the chief justice is on this in terms of how much of a role that he will be able to play on the process and where he may come down, you know. yes, he is a conservative, but also john roberts to a lot of people looks like an institutionalis, some people have pointed out his ruling preserving obamacares a evidence of that. and evidence that maybe in some cases institutions matter more to him than just sort of, you know, sticking with his political team. so it remains to be seen what justice roberts does and how much of a role that he is allowed to have over the proceeding. >> and congressman, i need to ask you, there are also pictures released of you with lev parnas. i'm wondering what kind of

relationship did you have with him and would you consider him to be a reliable witness in this case? >> mr. parnas came to my congressional office in the spring of 2018. he did not discuss ukraine with me. he was interested in reforming marijuana policies because apparently he was trying to acquire a license in the state of nevada. mr. parnas and mr. fruman did stand out. they weren't your typical visitors to the capital. but i had no reason to believe that they were up to anything nefarious. i think mr. parnas is being honest about his interactions with rudy giuliani, with the president and with others. however, what does stand out to me is that when i met with mr. parnas, he did go out of his way to express how close he was with the president, how big a supporter of the president he was, that he was going to be having dinner soon with the president at mar-a-lago. these days, it seems like mr.

parnas is either distancing himself from the president and his allies or certainly exposing them in terms of some. conversations that he was privy to that contradict some of the public statements that you've heard from the white house and from other allies of the president. >> that is interesting. you meet with a lot off constituents and he is someone who stuck out to you. does it seem credible to you that all these folks who apparently met with him at the white house would have no recollection of it? >> i certainly think that if you met with mr. parnas in d.c. you would remember. again, he was not the typical lobbyist or constituent that was coming to meet with members of congress or other policymakers on your run-of-the-mill legislative issue. >> very interesting. we'll leave it there. eli and congressman, thank you both for coming in this morning. and all of this comes as house investigators release additional new documents last night which appear to shed new light on left pv parnas' reflg

relationship with president trump, rudy giuliani and devin nunes. >> the fact is that we knew we had a solid case for the impeachment of the president. the facts were clear. the constitution required it and we wanted as to ma eed to make go forward so we put forth of articles of impeachment and voted them. we knew that there was plenty of other shall we say information to come forward, but it wasn't necessary to impeach the president. it would have been further incriminating but not necessary. and i wouldn't want to weaken a case that had the support of my caucus and was clearly understood by the american people. >> join being us now, member of the house judiciary committee congresswoman madeline dean of pennsylvania. what is your reaction to the criticism from some, and you period pelosi address it here,

the idea that the house might have rushed the impeachment proceedings that they didn't have the information as they were going forward? >> i think as a participants aa member of jusdiciary, there is nothing farther from the truth. we were deliberate and thoughtful. 17 witnesses came forward, patriots come forward to talk about the abuse by this president of his office for personal political gain and then once caught, the obstruction of congress as we tried to look into what he had done. so i don't consider any of this rushed. i thought it was very thoughtful, deliberate and remember what is at stake. what is at stake is our upcoming election. that is why we moved with the urgency that we did and we voted articles of impeachment.president is now forever impeached. >> describe what you think that the new evidence from lev parnas does for the democratic case. it seems to flush out a great deal the ambassador yovanovitch portion of this. how does it bolster your case do

you think? >> well, i'm very proud of the managers as they begin their work. notice what we have learned in the four week since we vote for pooemts of t impeachment of the president. in the delay, it was valuable. what happened is we learned that it was the president himself who ordered the delay of funding, 90 minutes after his phone call with the president of ukraine, he ordered the holding of funds $391 million to ukraine for their own security. the gament just this week said that was unlawful and those around him worried that it was unlawful.very scary things that we learned is that americans surveilled and attempted to watch the coming and goings of our ambassador. possibly to harm her. it is shocking what we have learned. we also learned that bolton is

willing to testify and we know bolton called it a drug deal that he want in order part of. and what happened here is the president sent follows like giuliani and parnas and others on a domestic political errandi. and what happened here is the president sent follows like giuliani and parnas and others on a domestic political errand to interfere in the election for his personal gain and now what we have is the senate potentially carrying those same corrupt bags of a domestic plirl a political errand to try to cover until wrong doing of the president. i hope and pray that the senate will is have a fair trial. >> you mentioned john bolton. democrats are hammerings idea that he needs to get called before the senate. what does he know that we don't know already? >> the very thing that the president has talked about, firsthand knowledge of this scheme. if the president has nothing to hide, he would want john bolton to come forward and tell us, no, there was nothing to see here, nothing wrong. but of course that is not what he would say. he was very concerned. he talk to the president and said release that money, what are you doing is not right.

and the president said no. let's hear the truth from somebody like john bolton. >> i want to ask you about the house managers. you work with a lot of these people on the judiciary committee. i wonder what you think the strengths are that they bring to the table. and i want to ask about congresswoman garcia from texas, a freshman and someone who you have worked with a little bit. what does she bring to the table in particular? >> well, i'm proud of the entire team that the speaker put together. every one of them has a diversity of strengths, but you will notice one corset of vale values and their 1k3er9d teaexp courtroom. sylvia garcia and i both sit on the same committees, the only two together on financial services and judiciary. so she's become one of my best friends and i just respect her tremendously. but every one of these house managers, you saw them through the impeachment investigation and you saw them through the

impeachment hearings and votes. they bring extraordinary intellect, legal skills and ability to navigate the courtroom and also to read and understand the constitution and apply to the facts here. so this is a really diverse team. i'm so proud of the five members of the judiciary committee who are on it, of course my chairman jerry nadler is one of the most strong constitutional scholars that you will come across. adam schiff as been meticulous. val demings. and i don't want to miss anybody. but they are all extraordinary. our chair hakeem jeffries, zoe lofgren who has been a part of three pooiimpeachments. imagine that. she was a staffer during the nixon. she was on judiciary for clinton and now of course on judiciary with me and others for this grave serious impeachment proceeding. so everybody -- and jason crow

who is a colleague of mine, freshman, all bringing legal expertise, thought fullness and in-t in-telling. >> and the country will get to know all of them well soon. komg wo congresswoman, thank you vich. coming up you, some is senators will be walking a fine line. could they face a backlash at home by allowing a trial without witnesses? al without witnesses? we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa quitting smoking is freaking hard.st,

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as preparation for the senate's impeachment trial get under way, mitch mcconnell faces a tough road of appeasing senators who will be sticking by the president no matter what, moderate republican senators and those vulnerable in their upcoming elections. already a group of moderate republican senators including sewa susan collins and lisa murkowski is pushing mcconnell to model it over clinton's trial. and other vulnerable senators have chosen to defend the president to the hit. martha mcsally made headlines after calling a cnn reporter who asked her about witnesses, quote, a liberal hack. but the senator's steadfastness could put her at risk of losing support from moderates in her election in arizona. with me now, david jolly and desiree barnes. and david, we've seen some vulnerable senators try to appear moderate and open minded

about the trial and others are just hugging the president as tightly as they can. i wonder how you see those strategies playing out in places like maine or arizona or north carolina. >> i think for susan collins and cory gardner, if you are in cycle facing a tough election, possibly a loss, the opportunity to lean in asking for witnesses and then inevitably-evidently acquit the president is not too hot, not too cold, just right. it doesn't lump you in with those who acquit at all costs. and i think challenge is that nil wants this over by state of the union and if he and lindsey graham can pull off this trial without witnesses, it saves them 48 48 or 72 hours in getting the president what emdeclare as an exoneration before the joint session.

>> and three republican senators to give the opportunity to appear moderate but can't lose four. what do you make of thom tillis and martha mcsally leaning hard on the president? they have made the choice to defend the president and try to juice their base. >> yeah, i know that the inflection part for tom till li thom tillis came from reprogramming money for the wall. he said the president didn't have a chance. there were rumors that tillis would face a senate primary challenge and the president would withholdis endorsement, he quickly fell in line and facing a tough re-election, needed the support. mcsally, i think that she knows she is losing so beginning to be aggressively. so a senator who knows that she will lose in november. >> and desiree, once again we fimd ourselves talking about susan collins and lisa

murkowski, republican senators who democrats find themselves again depending on a big priority here. and can democrats count on those votes for witnesses? >> i mean, here is what i'll say. for every senator in this, when they are sworn into office, they take an oath to proikprotect th constitution, not a president or the party but the constitution. and i'm going to give senator murkowski and senator collins the benefit of the doubt to uphold the oath that they toofrk. i think that it is a positive first step to put pressure on mcconnell to not just focus on the time line, but to ally make it as transparent as possible to keep the same energy that they kept with president clinton.ctu make it as transparent as possible to keep the same energy that they kept with president clinton. before i think it is highly unlikely that much can be done

from them. i think that it is intimidating to be a moderate republican right now. >> and dhou you feel abohow do whether the trial should be focused on the early stage on making the case for witnesses, opening the box even more, or making the case against the president directly based on the evidence we have now? i know that there is a bit of tension between those things, who is your and you had inside, what message are you trying to say. >> i think if you want the american people tohad inside, what message are you trying to say. >> i think if you want the american people to feel involved in the process, i think you layout as much evidence as you can, you bring witnesses forward and to talk about this. i know a lot of people may say that increases the attention to what they assume is a circus, but it is due process. i don't want to hear anything about a ruling without seeing a witness or evidence presented. and i think that it should behoove senator mcconnell do the same instead of focusing to

having this over by state of the union because this is in the broke stnot about san diego loya about staying local, it is about doing your job. >> and it is a high constitutional calling but also a political exercise at the same time. nancy pelosi always says public opinion, with did you can do everything, without did you can't do anything. what is the importance of the public's role? do you expect the american people to be leaning on some of these republican senators? i wonder if democratic senators might face blow back from this. what role do the polls that show that the public very much wants to hear witnesses, does that have an effect? >> if you look at the polls, i think it is maybe between 43% or 47% of the american people don't want to talk about impeachment. it doesn't have favorable ratings. but it is still the house and the senate's job to pursue it

regardless of whether or not the american people are interested in looking at it. i think if i am a republican senator at this point, they also need to focus on putting legislation in front of folks that affects the daily issues. i know from a lot of democrats and republicans, impeachment is a conversation that is being had. but more importantly, people are focused on how are we feeding our families, what is the education system like in this country, the opoid crisis, families are still separated. so i don't think that this is a zero sum game where you can look at impeachment as one size fits all answer to the republican party or even president trump. >> and yet the senate will be frozen by this for the next couple weeks. david, on this public opinion question, mitch mcconnell has been the immovable object so many times. almost immediately imperviousim but his members are not he. even republicans want to hear

from witnesses. does it affect a cory gardner in colorado, does that move people or the internal politics of the republican conference so tight now that that doesn't matter? >> you walk thall the halls ev and the members have the opportunity to make the decision to lead or to follow public opinion. nancy pelosi and house democrats took a risk in public opinion by saying that the constitution demands that we do this. republicans are falling in line with public opinion among republicans. and it is shameful. i think that at this point the nation is fully informed and we're seeing that because we're behaving in a 50-50 manner. fully informed means that you are getting your news through a partisan lens. doesn't mean you have all the facts but nchlged enough einfo

to make a decision. and the senate trial won't move public opinion. they will go home to their republican base and say they defended president trump. all right. the naked truth on impeachment politics. thank you both. and coming up, people have marched by the millions in the years since president trump's election and will this year be any different? i think probably not. we'll take a look at plans for the women's march and why organizers are calling this gathering the most important one yet. yet. could switching to geico really save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance? do woodchucks chuck wood?

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welcome back. i'm garrett haake. for the past four year, the women's march has been a symbol of protests against the presidency of donald trump. at its beginning, the 2017 women's march was among the largest in history as people walked together highlighting the fight for women's rights and equality. but last year the march and its organizers struggled facing accusations of anti-semitism and criticisms of leadership. and creayet they are back and w to strengthen their movement. there won't be big stages and musical guests, the organizers

say the emphasis will be on three issues. yk, immigration a climate change, immigration and reproductive rights. kathy park is live at one of the marches. it is cold, are people showing up? >> reporter: good morning. we have seen a couple folks showing up with their signs in tow. and the program officially kicks off around 11:00 today. and then there will be speakers on the stage behind me. and then they will eventually march from central park to midtown manhattan and they are anticipating thousands of people to turn up. but i want to bring in one of the organizers for the event. and tell me, basically why is this moment so important especially with the election cycle? >> this is a new decade, 2020. we call it the rise and roar

decade. so important to have women roar ing for pay equity. we have to talk about immigration. we need more women leadership. so this is really the time to speak up and listen to au all o these roars advocating for love, less hate, and you are -- our people get the opportunity to see the real issues that are affecting women. and hear from the one on the front lines and make the right decisions moving forward. >> and so you are with the women's march alliance and the theme is rise and roar. talk about the speakers. who will be represented? >> we're so excited to have the youngest i guess one of the youngest feminists and activists, she is the founder of 1,000 blank girl votes. she will be speaking today. and the lieutenant governor will

be on the stage. the co-founder of "black lives matter" will also be on the stage. and we have representation from our sisters in the jewish community, we have representation from our sisters in the muslim community. this is about the unified voices of women and all of us coming together. this is the opportunity for all of us from all different walks of life, all ages to just come together and make sure that we create the changes that we want to see. so this is about every single leader that we have out there and all of their support. and everyone in new york in a believes that it is time to change our narrative, come over and this is it. >> thanks. and you are super pumped and energized despite the weather being the way it is. and eventually like i said, thousands will eventually be marching from here in central park to midtown manhattan. back to you. >> cath akathy park, thank you. virginia state capitol is on

high alert after the arrest of more men connected to the group called the base. officials say the group had malicious plans for a gun rights group on monday. geoff bennett has more. >> reporter: tensions are running high in virginia after the arrests of more more suspected neo-nazis connected to what authorities call a white supremacist group. the fbi arrested three other members of that same group which calls itself the base. who officials say had obtained weapons and discussed attending a pro gun rally in virginia next week. governor northam declaring a state of emergency. >> we have received intelligence that they have malicious plans. >> reporter: and the supreme court upholding the decision to ban firearms on capitol grounds. one of the organizers pushing back. >> we've done it since 2003, not

one incident. >> reporter: and president trump weighed in tweeting your second amendment is under very serious attack in the great common well et of virginia. protestors are expected to voice their opposition to tougher gun laws being propose in the state. and including requiring background checks on all firearms purchases. limiting handgun purchases to one per month, and letting localities ban guns from certain events and government buildings. ahead of the rally, northam fears a repeat of the deadly protests in charlottesville three years ago. and heather hieyer killed while proetdin i protesting. heath heather's mother thinks the gun made the right move? >> i'd rather see him take stricter measures than not enough. >> and that was geoff bennett reporting. still ahead, lev parnas is pointing fingers. we'll chat with our legal panel

will the people that hhe has implicated. and stay tuned for a.m. joy oig. rachel maddow will have more revelations with her interview with lev parnas. >> and i asked mr. parnas if he believed the allegations against yovanovitch and allegations against biden that he helped publici publicize, if he believed that they were true. and he said you know, at the time i really thought that they were true. and now i realize that they are not. not. ♪ ♪ wherever we want to go, autosave your way there with chase. chase. make more of what's yours. even after you clean, odors are still trapped in your fabrics. febreze fabric eliminates those odors. and try febreze unstopables with twice the fresh-scent power. tackle tough odors with irresistible freshness. la la la la la

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new evidence that could affect the senate impeachment trial of president trump. the new materials are from indicted rudy giuliani associate lev parnas. the document dump included text messages that reveal disturbing new details about the extent one candidate took to track former ambassador to the ukraine marie yovanovitch. and with an exchange saying, quote, nothing has changed, she's still not moving, they check again today, and it is confirmed that we have a person inside. these new interactions shed a disturbing new light on yovanovitch's testimony from november. >> what did you think when president trump told president zelensky and you read that you were going to go through some things? >> i didn't know what to think. but i was very concerned. >> what were you concerned

about? >> she's going to go through some things. it doesnidn't sound good. sounded like a threat. >> did you feel threatened? >> i did. >> joining me now is paul butler and also joyce vance. joyce, this is all fascinating stuff, but how incriminating do you think it is for the president specifically? >> well, this is the issue with lev parnas. and with his testimony and other surrounding information, we have to be very careful that everything is fully corroborated. because it is possible that this leads to rudy giuliani who is after august the person who in these documents implicates the president along with parnas. so i think that it is premature to draw conclusions. it certainly is a strong reason the senate should be hearing testimony from firsthand witnesses. >> and parnas implicated a

number of officials which rudy giuliani is one before i want to play you a bit. >> everybody was in the loop. president trump knew exactly what was going on. i wouldn't do anything without the consent of rudy giuliani or the president. >> you have reason to believe that vice president pence was tasked at that meeting with get president zelensky to announce investigations of joe biden. >> yes. >> did rudy giuliani tell you he had spoken to the stestifyin at general about ukraine? >> about pl barr hmr. barr had anything. >> and mr. giuliani said that they need to announce an investigation into joe biden. >> absolutely. i was in shock when i was watching the hearings and when i saw nunes sitting up there. i know mr. bolton was involved in the loop because of the firing of yovanovitch. >> you believe that he knows what the administration was

pressuring ukraine to do? >> 100%. >> and so you have almost the entire top tier of the president's cabinet and leadership team implicated here in some way. who do you think if anyone faces legal jeopardy? >> i remember the house impeachment inquiry, ambassador sondland said everybody knew and parnas basically confirms that. in terms of who has the most legal liability from parnas' testimony, giuliani clearly. parnas was giuliani's emissary in ukraine pep didn. he didn't do anything without direct. and also nunes, the ranking member of the house intelligence committee is conducting an investigation about whether trump and company solicited interference in the election

from ukraine by getting dirt on biden. at the same time, nunes is so he police irting dirt on the bidens if we can believe parnas. and i agree his testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt. but remember, he brought receipts. he brought text mails, calendar industries. >> and we've reached out to devin nunes and have not heard back. he is quiet on the hill with reporters not beingassociated w fox news. so what do you make of the nunes connection? he seemed to be doing ukraine investigations before it was cool. >> i think that that is right. he is sort of like forrest gump. he has been in this investigation in a lot of different places. this points to the fact that in any normal administration with a normal attorney general and a functional doj tier of leadership which we know be a s counsel investigating this sort of a situation.

and impeachment only reaches the president right now. and to the extent that criminal allegations are raised by much of the evidence that is now public, prosecutors should be investigating this information. so maybe they did things that are criminal violations, maybe not, but there should be a full blown investigation. >> and i want to ask you about your favorite people, defense attorneys. the president named a bunch of them including alan dershowitz. he had an interesting take on the constitutionality. take a listen. >> abuse of power even if proved is november an impeachable defense. le tframers didn't want to give congress the authority to remove president if he abused power. they have to prove treason, bribery.

>> and you are a student of mr. dershowi dershowitz. what is your take on this constitutional argument here about abuse of power as an impeachable removable offense? >> alan dershowitz was a first rate professor of criminal law. i'm glad he didn't have him for constitutional law because he is wrong. it is clear if you look at the firmist papers, if you look at the intent of the framers in creating the impeachment remedy, it was for this kind of public corruption, it was for chen peopwhen people take the power and use it for their own ends. so i think that he is brought into make a legal argument really to try to get the senate to think that the facts don't matter even if everything is true that it is alleged in the articles, it doesn't rise are to the level of impeachment. so he is part of the scheme to have a trial without witnesses and without evidence. >> and we'll have to talk about the book club later.

but we have to leave it here for now. paul, joyce, thanks you both. coming up, the nation's security agencies are saying they are trying to guard against another attack on the u.s. elections by making a major policy shift. and the startling admission from at least one official who says that the policy doesn't work. l s that the policy doesn't work [alarm beeping] {tires screeching} {truck honking} (avo) life doesn't give you many second chances. but a subaru can. (dad) you guys ok? you alright? wow. (avo) eyesight with pre-collision braking. standard on the subaru ascent. the three-row subaru ascent. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. there he is. oh, wow.

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on state election systems. it will now notify even of a single county. nelson lost his election to republican rick skocott in 2018. more on his reporting and what can you tell us about the agency's quote, traditional policy that failed to work in 2018? >> well, the fbi tends to be very, very conservative about what it says about successful cyber attacks because the way it learns about them tends to involve sensitive sources and methods and so when it comes to victim notification the fbi has viewed that very narrowly and will tend to if they notify at

all will only notify the direct victim of the attack. when it comes to elections in this country which are run county by county but also supervised by the states that system is really broken down because what you had was the fbi notifying individual county, local officials who may not have passed that to the state. that didn't work so under the new policy they're now going to notify both state and local officials simultaneously. >> i remember during the 2018 cycle nelson was talking about this without ed at the time and the mueller report ultimately confirmed that he was right. was this the incident that prompted this change? >> the fbi will not acknowledge that but it seems pretty clear that this incident played a big role because nelson was treated unfairly. he got a classified briefing that a accounting in florida had been breached and he talked about it and the governor rick

scott, the republican who's running against him said he was making it up essentiallily and newspapers piled on and it turned out he was right. the mueller report confirmed that there was a breach but that state officials hadn't been told about that. well, the governor of florida and rick scott and others were angry that they had not been informed and they had been pressing congress to change the law. senator rubio had been makes a mistake about this and now we have the fbi changing the policy. >> the other big story on the hacking beat was that cyber security researchers saying that company was hacked by russia after everything the president's been saying publicly calling on china and ukraine to investigate the bidens, do we have any idea what information these russian groups may have gotten? >> it's not clear whether it will be the fbi but certainly the national security agency which is closely watching that russian military intelligence unit that conducted the hacking according to this private

security group. certainly the nsa will have a lot of intelligence about this. whether they will give all of that to ukraine remains to be seen but they are closely watching this whole scenario and what this shows is that the russians are back at it with the same techniques trying to get the pass words out of people and steal all their e-mails and in this case it looks like it was targeted at joe biden because this is the company that put it on the board. and the other really scary thing is once they get e-mails from that company there's nothing that stops them from concocting fake and bogus e-mails and information that they could then release and suggest something amiss about joe biden when in fact it could be false. >> seems to me this is the find of thing that could have long political legs. imagine a world in which e-mails are the new clinton e-mails coming out in october of this year. is there any talk of that?

>> this is the nightmare scenario. it's an issue for the news media. we will have to talk about what we will use if it's the fruits of foreign intelligence operation and whether these documents are true or false. i talked to the top cyber security election official last week and she acknowledged that there may be times when the intelligence community can't tell the difference between what's true and what's false. she says it's a whole society problem we're all going to have to confront it. >> we'll be living in these echos of the 2016 election for a long time i think. thank you very much for your expertise on this. >> great to be with you. thanks. >> coming up. rachel maddow reveals more with her interview with parnas when she sits down the joy reid coming up next on a.m. joy. coming up next on a.m. joy so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage.

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a.m. joy with joy reid starts right now. >> in terms of the president and what he has said about you, he said about you and mr. fruman, i don't know these gentlemen, i don't know about them. i don't know what they do. you're saying that was not a true statement from the president? >> he lied. he knew exactly who i was especially because i interacted with him at a lot of events. >> good morning. and welcome to a.m. joy. well, it has been quite a week needless to say. the preamble to the senate impeachment trial of donald trump began this week with the official delivery of the articles of impeachment to the senate in the swearing in of the senate jury. a solemn ceremony that has only ever happened twice before in american history. pu the pundents turned out to be premature. between the time of the impeachment in the house and the