you know now that he had called my cell phone, and i didn't know his name, didn't remember the name. >> good morning and welcome to "am joy." it turns out rudy giuliani associate lev parnas doesn't just have an interview, he also has receipts. because of it ranking member of the house intelligence committee devin nunes had to quickly change course this week after previously claiming he didn't know lev at all. documents released friday night by house democrats brought one of nunes' staffers, a guy named derek harvey deeper into the mix, showing he communicated extensively with lev parnas about ukraine aid. also in a newly released evidence, whatsapp messages suggesting congressional candidate robert hyde passed information about marie yovanovitch's whereabouts to lev parnas, information he received from a trump super fan named anthony decal way.

a whole new addition. what exactly do we know about him? not much other than he's a dutch citizen who takes frequent trips to belgium and loves trump. initially he denied involved but then told nbc news that hyde asked him for information on yovanovitch's whereabouts but he declined saying i informed him it's against the law. on friday after the house released messages from de calloway to hyde, he changed his tune admitting in a statement to nbc news he did send messages to hide about yovanovitch. he was not really surveilling her, and it was all, quote, ridiculous banter. and here is another twist. the little we know of him comes from his friend and spokesperson karen turk, a conservative media commentator from palm beach who was just sentenced for a month in prison for stealing her

elderly mother's social security checks. perfect. meanwhile the impeachment trial of donald trump charged right along saturday night. the house impeachment managers submitted their trial brief to the senate laying out their formal case for removing trump from office. of course, donald trump's team responded to the senate summons in typical trumpy fashion calling the impeachment charges unlawful and brazen. joining me now, congresswoman terri sewell a member of the house intelligence committee. congressman sewell has also endorsed joe biden for president. congresswoman, thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. >> i want to start by playing some of your questioning of ambassador marie yovanovitch, and this was during the impeachment inquiry back in november. take a listen. >> you spoke about how your service is not just your own personal service, it affects your family. today we've seen you as this former ambassador, this 33-year

veteran of the foreign service, but i want to know about you personally and how this has affected you personally and your family. >> it's been a difficult time. i mean i -- i'm a private person. i don't want to put all that out there. it's been a very, very difficult time. there's a question as to why the kind of campaign to get me out of ukraine happened, because all the president has to do is say he wants a different ambassador. >> right. that was the question that i also had for rachel maddow in her questioning of lev parnas. donald trump could have just fired the ambassador, but instead we have text messages like these between this robert hyde guy who was a congressional candidate out of connecticut and can't any caluwe saying nothing has changed, he's still not moving. it's confirmed we have a person inside. she's being surveilled rather

than fired. can you, as a member of congress, understand any reason why that would happen? >> no, i can't. i want to say thank you so much for allowing me to be on your show today. i'm in south carolina, about to attend church as we honor the celebration of martin luther king with vice president biden. i'm excited, i think vice president biden will be the perfect person to protect the legacy of dr. king and my district where people fought, died and bled for the right to vote. you're absolutely right to be concerned about what's going on in the senate. i think the most important thing we need to focus on is the fact that there's a lot more evidence that can come into play. we need to put the pressure where the pressure deserves to be on, and that's on mitch mcconnell and the senators. they can either show their loyalty to donald trump or they can show their loyalty to the constitution and the american people. 71% of the american people know they want a fair trial, and to get a fair trial you have to have witnesses and documents. i think everything we've learned

about what's going on behind the scenes with ambassador yovanovitch just goes to show there's still more evidence that needs to be gathered, and we, the american people, deserve to vour senate do its job and have a fair trial. >> we do know that we now have the state department finally investigating after ukraine also said they're going to investigate whether or not the ambassador was surveil. the tormenting of her is a strange thin. the other oddity here is the potential -- somehow involvement of amo members of congress in ts whole thing. that would be devin nunes. here is lev parnas talking about your colleague on the house intel committee devin nunes, the ranking member, by the way. >> does it strike you as unusual or inappropriate that devin nunes would be one of the lead investigators into this scandal

on the house intelligence committee, the top republican on this committee? >> i was in shock when i was watching the hearings and i saw devin nunes sitting up there and there was a picture where derek harvey was in back sitting. i texted my attorney and said i can't believe this is happening. >> because? >> because they were involved in getting all this stuff on biden. >> derek harvey is the aide to def vis nunes who has also been -- he's in this trunk of documents that lev parnas has turned over as having had communications with lev parnas in this attempt to find dirt on joe biden and his son. the reality is devin nunes is named by lev parnas as having been involved and his aide named. are you concerned devin nunes is still the ranking member of the intel committee, how intel committee, and do you think he should be removed? >> joy, i'm not going to comment

on a sitting members of congress, especially a colleague that sits on both committees that i sit on. i'm just going to say we all should be concerned about the mounting evidence that's out there. we impeached donald trump four weeks ago. in the laust four weeks so much has come out that deserves to be vetted and to come to the light. i think the american people deserve the trugt. i think we should stay focused on demanding that the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell do his job and the senator do their job. that needs to be vetted along with a whole bunch of other evidence that's come up in the last four weeks. so we the american people must put the pressure on this president and the republican senators to do their jobs. >> you're supporting, obviously, as you mentioned, and as we mentioned at the top of the show, joe biden, former vice president joe biden for president. but are you concerned with this concerted effort to dig up dirt on him and his family that seems

to have been been on going, and seems to go right up to the president of the united states, that joe biden would simply be subjected to the exact same election with foreign interference that hillary clinton was and there would be the same result? >> i think we all should be concerned about foreign interference in our elections. i think the reason why i voted for impeachment and the reason why i think so many of our colleagues felt like it was time to hold this president accountable is because he actually put pressure on a foreign ally by withholding much-needed aid for his own personal and political gain. the fact that he would use the office of president for his own personal gain should concern all of us, and i think what we in the biden camp as well as all of us as americans should want is a

fair election, and to ensure we have a fair election, we have to make sure we don't have foreign interference. i think that's why it's important that all of us continue to our job as swiftly and quickly, get this trial on and make sure that it's a fair trial. and let's get on with the business of doing what the american people want us to do which is to legislate and to do what's in our best interest. when i think about election security which is of quite concern to me, folks in my district fought and bled for the right to vote, we want to make sure every vote is counted. we want to make sure this election is fair for all candidates involved. i think the best way to do that is for congress to put our money where our mouth is. i think it's important. >> what i'm asking really quickly, and i am out of time, is joe biden uniquely vulnerable here because he's the target of this campaign? is he uniquely vulnerable as a candidate? >> absolutely. i think the fact that this

president saw vice president biden as a big threat is why he did all of the things, in an effort to get dirt on vice president biden. but i think we have to rise above this and show to the american people that he is the best candidate to beat the person who has put his own personal gain above the american people. i think that's the case we have to make to the american public, and i do believe that vice president biden is the best person to do that. >> thank you very much for coming on and making the case, congresswoman terri sewell. >> thank you. >> joining me, former florida republican congressman carlos curbelo. let's talk about lev parnas for a moment. i want to show you this photo of carlos curbelo with someone you know well, with you -- lev parnas with you. how well did you know lev parnas and what was his role in politics in the state of florida that you know of?

>> good morning, joy. lev parnas came to my office in the spring of 2018. he was interested in cannabis reform legislation because apparently he was pursuing a license in the state of nevada or wanting to engage in some kind of cannabis business. he came with igor fruman to my office on two occasions, to discuss that issue. never did he discuss ukraine with me. i had no idea that any of this was going on. but i did get to know him a little bit. mr. parnas was very boastful about his kwloes relationshclos with the president, the president's associates, rudy giuliani and others. he told me on one occasion he would be having dinner with the president later that week. of course, at the time i didn't know if that was true or not. there are a lot of people who make all sorts of claims in politics, but now, as more and more information becomes available, i do realize that, yes, mr. parnas indeed was in

this web of trump associates and apparently was very involved in this ukraine pressure campaign. >> let's play adam schiff talking -- robert hyde -- did you know robert hyde by the way? >> no. >> so robert hyde was a congressional candidate, a wanna be in the trump orbit, too. here he is accusing congressman adam schiff of planting this new character that we've learned about, anthony -- >> the other transcripts from the guy i was talking to that i think adam schiff put there to [ bleep ] with me. why does everybody say the calowe, whoever he is. honestly i have no ties to ukraine. i don't know even know if lev is ukrainian. he's probably the only one i

know or knew. i urge everyone to to ask adam schiff for the other side of those transcripts. >> in fairness, let's play adam schiff talking about this cast of characters in his own right. here he is moments ago on abc. here is adam schiff. >> it is the fact with many of the people surrounding the president they end up indicted. these are the people the president has chosen to work with, people like michael cohen, lev parnas, paul manafort. these are people that do have information about the president's misconduct. right now, george, we don't know what witnesses will be allowed and even if we'll be allowed witnesses. we can't really make a determination on which witnesses will call in the absence of knowing whether the senate will allow any at all. >> a lot of these are interestingly enough, florida characters. lev parnas is, roger stone, these characters who wind up indicted, wind up in trouble as adam schiff said.

what do you make of that? why do you think there is this nexus of this cast of characters swirling around donald trump and florida? >> the florida angle i hope is just a coincidence, being from the miami area, which, by the way, lev parnas lives in south florida as well. i certainly hope it's nothing in the water down here. but from what i can tell, lev parnas is someone who probably accidentally ended up in this world and once he got into it he was consumed by it. he probably, and i could tell from our conversations, felt very important or privileged to be in contact with all of these high attention individuals and sure enough, he got in trouble. he got burned like a lot of other people we've seen that somehow get involved in trump world. so here is other thing i'll say about him. i find him to be credible.

i think everything he's saying is true. when he sat in my office and was boasting, i wasn't sure. but now that more and more evidence has surfaced, it does seem that mr. parnas was in constant contact with a lot of people in trump world, that he had access to the president at least on a number of occasions and that he was thrilled by that until it ended up costing him. >> what do you make of the fact that the members of your party who are still in elected office seem completely unfased by the sheer number of the president of the united states' associates indicted, convicted and jailed, the growing number of felons he's surrounded himself with, and this scandal that involved breaking the law which prohibited the president from not dispensing aid as congress authorized it to be dispensed.

the growing sense of criminality around this president, it doesn't seem to bother your colleagues in congress. what do you make of that? >> joy, our politics have become so polarize z and so tribalized, it is more than obvious that a lot of members of congress have forgotten that congress is an independent coequal branch of congress. no congressional committee should be an extension of any administration, republican or democrat. again, people have become so fan nat sized that congress, the most important constitution in our government, the article 1 institution in the constitution appears to have lost its independence, its ability to process information objectively and render a fair verdict. >> very quickly before we go, lev par nas called the trump world, really the republican party, it's all the trump world,

a cult. would you agree with that characterization? >> that's along the lines of what i just described. our politics have become so tribalized that people are just about defending their side. certainly that's been apparent in the last few weeks here with many congressional republicans. >> carlos curbelo, thank you so much. appreciate you being here. >> thanks, joy. 15 more shopping days until the iowa caucuses. almost all of the candidates are struggling with one major topic. i'll tell you what that is next. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed

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i've been consistently leading in the polls after taking all the hits. i go down, everybody who has hit me is out. editorially in a broad sense i get declared dead. guess what? i ain't dead and i'm not going to die. >> tonight "the new york times" editorial board will announce endorsements of the 2020 presidential primary. do these endorsements matter? this was the final editorial endorsement tally in 2016. we all know how that turned out, thanks electoral college. joe biden has a reason to be bullish. the latest polls show him with a consistent lead in the race nationally including among black voters, a key demographic for the democratic party. joining me is jason johnson, msnbc political contributor and politics editor at root.com and

tiffany cross, managing editor of the beat d.c. the endorsements will come out tonight. i'm not sure it matters that much. i think we all agree it probably doesn't. is there something now that can break this logjam. "washington post" ipsos poll shows bernie sanders leading among younger black voters. overall biden has a consistent lead. there is a logjam among people i talk to. is there anyone that can break it? >> i don't think so. here is the thing about this field. nobody is generally exciting, right? everybody is kind of like, all right. you're the person who we'll take. again, i think that's base so many people still have an obama hangover. they want somebody to give you that feeling on sunday morning you get from a baptist preacher. that's not going to happen. i have to say i think this field

will hedge lively on the second person on the ticket, the vp pick. it would be a bold move for any candidates to come out and say, i'm going to pick person x as my running mate. you remember ted cruz did this in 2016 with carly fiorina. in 1952 it was done with macarthur. >> and john mccain. >> we were saying this yesterday, that if joe biden wins the nomination, bernie sanders wins the nomination. if any of these four white people win, they're going to need a dynamic woman of color on the ticket. i think the top of the ticket is going to end up being a white person. here is what's interesting. one, i think this is key with bernie. sanders people like to say this, he leads with black voters under

the age of 35. 18 to 35. the lead is only about 10%. every other group of voters from 35 and up, he's just being absolutely lapped by joe biden, usually a 15 or 20% lead. nobody is doing as well as black voters as joe biden. i think really it's an indictment on every other candida candidate. what is your problem? bernie for five years, pete for a year, elizabeth warren for a year and a half, klobuchar for a long time. if you can't get the core constituency to listen to you, you don't deserve the job. >> if any of these candidates were polling with white voters, we wouldn't -- to your point about the second ticket. they all ought to be on the phone with stacy abrams today. i think georgia is in play. i think she would give a big boost to any of these candidates. we're in a post trump world. there are no rules. do something to make a splash.

>> we talked about this before, that we think val demings, kamala harris, stacy abrams. i don't know if this is among the people you're talking about, there's a malaise, a sense of non-excitement, nobody with the obama x factor. >> bernie is promoting plans most people think can't get do. elizabeth warren is promoting things and they don't know if she's electable. joe biden makes mistakes and says anachronistic things every other minute. >> vice presidents almost never matter. this is one year -- >> it matters a lot. >> mccain would have gotten blown out of the water by obama. >> you have to remember with mccain he got a loer percentage of white women voters than any republican had in four cycles.

so she didn't help him, she hurt him with a lot of people who thought she didn't seem as serious. let's talk about this -- let's talk about -- sorry -- "the washington post" poll about donald trump. he is, of course -- the election should be about him, that's what's helping the democrats. 83% in the poll says donald trump is a racist. 13% say no. 4% for some reason have no opinion. is that going to matter? is the perception of donald trump going to matter? >> i don't think it's a perception at this point. this is a reality. i'm tired of the question. this is a question asked and answered many times as evidence by his misogynistic language, tweets, politics. who are these 13 percent ter

terseers. you get presented these questions, well, the democrats say the president broke the law. tiffany, what do you think? >> can we stop with these ridiculous conversations. >> i agree with you. the opinions of donald trump are so baked in at this point and they're immovable. do the opinions of him actually move the electorate in november? >> i think in a way they do. once people see that what he is not going to change, i don't think you end up gaining voters that way. almost everybody tends to lose voters the second time around. there's nobody in this country who voted ford hillary clinton that saw four years of donald trump and said, you know what, babies in cages, mass shootings? they're not going to go to him. a lot of black people think a lot of white people are racist. the question is not whether or not black people think someone is racist, it's does it have an

impact on me? it's a question we deal with every day. i think the polls miss that nuance. >> the interviews around "the washington post," there was a followup article, people were talking about the exhaustion of saying this is not just thinking he's racist, but knowing the people around them in their circle, their peers are taking on a different attitude toward them now that he's here. >> emboldened. the quote from the black man in the article was so striking, when i'm in a room with white women, i think half of you all voted for trump. >> it's hurt the women's march. >> feminism trumps racism sometimes. that's going to be a challenge. >> we talked about this in last webbing's power rankings. because black voters are looking at what might peopwhite people 2016, they don't trust them. >> that's why biden is doing well. at least they know him. somebody people know. >> this is a good show.

co-host. we'll put that in the june vors. a top republican strategist gives us his take on how to dump trump. p. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa

♪you got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive♪ ♪ e-lim-i-nate the negative ♪ and latch on to the affirmative ♪ ♪ but don't mess with mister inbetween ♪ ♪ you got to spread joy up to the maximum ♪ "it's okay, you got this" ♪ bring gloom down to the minimum ♪ "slow it down a little" ♪and have faith, or pandemonium "it's okay" ♪liable to walk upon the scene♪

well, we now know the conditions for mexit, a term describing the departure of the duke and duchess of sussex. harry's determination to spare her the torment that his mom princess diana faced. some of the agreement announced by queen elizabeth, the couple will give up the royal title of your highness, no longer receive public funds and repay the $3 million in taxpayer money -- dollars in pounds, that was used to refurbish their official residence at windsor castle. harry and meghan are expected to spend their time in canada and later the united states. we can't wait to have you on this side of the pond. coming up, the man who famously called trump cheeto

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earlier this afternoon, my white house released a memo to make sure federal funding is never used to violate the first amendment. >> the white house promoting prayer in schools, celebrating, quote, unquote, religious freedom, in the only way he knows how, bragging about the 2016 election.

he displayed an overwhelmingly red electoral map in 2016 which explai ex-his win over hillary clinton. it was by about 3 million votes, as a reminder. when democrats look at that display, they look at it and ask why is it looking like it's going to be so hard to beat that g guy. here is republican strategist rick wilson whose new and subtly titled book is entitled "running against the devil, a blot to save america from donald trump and democrats from themselves." only you, rick wilson, could get away with calling trump the devil. >> i may have done that a time or two. >> cheeto jesus. you've gone the full route. >> i have a collection. >> you do.

how do democrats beat him? >> the most important thing, joy, is to remember that this election like all re-elections is a referendum on donald trump. democrats already have their base. their base has been more motivated and fired up by donald trump than anything i've seen in my lifetime in politics. i've been in the political business for 30 years, since i was a wee lad. democrats have a motivated base. that means they have the luxury of making this race about trump. they have the luxury of going into the swing states in the electoral college, love it or hate it, it's still the way the ball game will be played in 2020. maybe not forever, but 2020 will still be an electoral college fight. the second big part of this program is democrats have to get into the swing states and work their tail there. democrats have fallen short in florida a number of times. unless you have a superstar like barack obama, they struggle in florida. so it's important they get down and do the organizing in the swing states that matter and

where trump squeezed out. in four states, over 100,000 votes. you've got donald trump in the white house. this will be a game of narrow numbers and margins. they'll have to do very, very aggressive campaigning in the swing states and get out of california and new york and pre tending that they're going to -- they can't pretend they're going to have to campaign in the blue states where they know the election is over. they also need to not try to swing places like texas, if you could put those resources into a place where you could swing like florida. so there's a lot of logistical and political tradeoffs that are going to happen here. the third big thing about this is in the end of the day, and it loops back to number one, policy isn't going to win this election. nobody is going to make a decision in this election based on medicare for all versus obamacare or on the candidate's k4r50i climate change plans. it's going to be a reality tv show and it's got to be

something that the democratic nominee, whoever it is -- one of the things i'm doing in this book is i'm arguing very strongly. i'm not trying to pick the democratic nominee, not trying to select a nominee. i think there are some candidates who would probably blow the whole thing up. but i'm not trying to choose who the democratic nominee is. i'm trying to show them where the tricks and traps and systems that republicans have built up over 30-plus years of winning a lot of statewide and national elections and congressional elections have put into place. i was one of the people that helped build that system. so this book is a warning to democrats how not to fall into some of those traps. >> that's why i call it wwrd. you want to know how to beat a republican is a republican. you guys are good at this. the reality is, as you point out and i think you and i agree on this, that donald trump could win -- could lose the popular vote by 5 million votes which was the reelect margin of barack

obama in 2012. draum won by 10 million votes in 2008 and won by five million votes in 2012. trump could lose by 5 million votes and still win because of the electoral college states. let's zero in on those states. we're talking a small number of swing states. add arizona. michigan, pennsylvania, florida i'm not sure is still a swing state, ohio i'm not sure is still a swing state. i'm not confident that it really is, and wisconsin. how do democrats get past the voter suppression in those states, particularly states like wisconsin, and make the election a referendum on trump and not whoever the democratic nominee is in those states? >> part of it, joy, in those states they've got to have accountability. they've got to have people on the ground in those states. in 2016, i kept asking, are hillahil

hillary's people organizing puerto rican voters? they kept saying they got this. they didn't do the work. accountability is a huge thing. we run these campaigns in an organizationally accountable way. we go in and make sure people are doing their actual jobs. that often does not happen. it doesn't always connect with the democrats. they need to go out and do the hustle hard in wisconsin and michigan suburbs particularly. there have been a lot of breck cage off the republican party with educated and female voters. you're correct ohio is trending red. if you loses in ohio, you could roll up in arizona, potentially roll up in north carolina if you play your cards right. there are a lot of places where democrats can get in the game here and can do some calculuses that mitigate losing one of the big swing states, but you can't really afford to lose more than one. it's a very narrow pathway. >> very narrow pathway.

people forget sometimes, barack obama won north carolina and indiana in 2008. >> correct. >> these states are winnable if you have the right kind of candidate. lightning round for you. in your mind is this election -- you write about the fact that donald trump has broken lots of campaign promises. that's a case that you can make. it says here out of 280 campaign promises trump has broken 43%. f it sounds like a persuasion argument. is this a persuasion race or base turnout race? >> the base turnout equation is already settled. democrats showed us in 2018 they will crawl over broken glass to vote against trump. that race was an entire referendum on trump in the off year which is remarkable. you rarely get that. '94 and 2010 are the only two examples that are close to us in time. that argument that you can

persuade some voters is important. bringing some of those republican women and suburb women and independent men in the suburbs who, remember, game of small numbers. you don't have to crush donald trump by 5 million or 10 million votes, but 271 electoral college votes. again, he won by 100,000 votes in four states. if you get in there and cherry-pick those folks and do the right date da targeting, analytics, campaign advocacy, sometimes the message will be persuasion. part of it will be to tell those voters, we're cleaning this up. we're going to get rid of this agent of pure chaos. we're not trying to flip it over and be a left wing version of trump. trying to get america back on its bearings so we can have fights on marginal tax rates and the small things politics -- what's comprised of in this country for a very long time. >> rick wilson, i recommend people read the book. i would love to have you come back on and talk about the strategy. there are republicans like you

who also believe a second term of donald trump would not be good for america. >> no. >> take the help, people. thank you very much, rick. more "am joy" next. congrats on the book. xt congrats on the book i started , the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. but now i practice a different philosophy. quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. and now i'm back on top... with koala kai. hey! more mercy. (vo) save over 40 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. the easy way to a happier business. i wanted more from my copd medicine that's why i've got the power of 1, 2, 3 medicines with trelegy. the only fda-approved once-daily 3-in-1 copd treatment. ♪ trelegy ♪ the power of 1,2,3 ♪ trelegy ♪ 1,2,3 ♪ trelegy woman: with trelegy and the power of 1, 2, 3, i'm breathing better. trelegy works three ways

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click, call or visit a store today. it seems like they actually think they're neutral. they think they're objective. and that is more troubling. just delusional how they've responded to this. you know, never mind their hyperbolic words about thinking, oh, did she just have a bad day? was she emotional? no, i was a fighter pilot.

this was a choice i made. i did not crumble under their pressure. i've flown a-10s in combat. i decided to called a liberal a librale and they couldn't handle it. >> believe it or not, this is what arizona senator martha mcsally feels she needs to do to win a tight race. call cnn reporter manu raju a liberal hack, after running away from his questions as if she was in danger and of doubling down on fox news and fund-raising off of it. i get it. it's a tossup, hail mary pass kind of gamble for a politician who by any metric is in trouble in the upcoming election. she is trailing her democratic challenger, mark kelly, by four points. kelly is outfund-raising her by millions of dollars. in a new poll that underscores

how vulnerable she and a handful of republicans are, not only are they under water on their own but trump's approval in battleground states is dragging them down further. take a look at the numbers on the bottom. trump's rating in iowa is 15 points under water. in colorado it's 17 points in the red. where senator cory gardner is opting to try to seem reasonable by saying he plans to be impartial as he looks at all the evidence. probably his best bet in a blue-leaning swing state. not martha mcsally, her strategy to win in a state she was appointed to, because she lost to the senior senator from that state in 2018. she's trying to do a full fox news regardless of how she looks in the process. joining me is eric boller, nicole hemmer, author of "messengers of the right."

gabriel sherman, ougauthor of " loudest voice in the room" and tiffany cross and jason from theroot.com. there's a thing you have to do to be a trump republican. you have to be all the way in the church. that is what mcsally is trying to do. it's a weird thing to do from arizona which is increasingly a purple state. >> it's a weird thing to do in january. she has to stick with the charade for the next ten months. there will be a short-term game, fox news wanted to talk to her because they think she's a star. she has to keep up the charade for the whole year. is she going to yell at every reporter who asking her a question, insult every member of the press corps who asks her a simple question, like what do you think of impeachment? she's locked in.

the demographics in arizona is changing. this would make sense next october or next september, but it seems like a very weird move now. look, this is what some increasingly women republican, who have almost no path of survival in the republican party anymore, members of senate, members of congress, increasingly they're deciding this is their only chance. and just real quickly, you know, they're going to the cupboard. the cupboard is bare and all they see is a container that says liberal media bias and they're going to crack it open and see what happens. it does wreak of desperation at this point. >> i'm going to jump around. i'm going to my political scientist at the table. running against the media, making media the hate object, has said that is what the republican party organized itself around. it works. in general, in broad-brush republican politics. i'm looking at arizona and i just see colorado. it's a state increasingly

purple. so, you not only have to win, to win statewide there. the trumpy people, you also have to win independents, and even some people who are on the record as democrats, but who would vote for a republican. she already tried to run as a right-wing republican and she lost. >> yes. >> she's in an appointed seat. >> and she's probably about to lose to an astronaut. here's what people don't recognize with what happened with manu raju. the context matters. she was asked a question, do you want witnesses in the impeachment hearing? it was an easy question. it wasn't the hackie question. it wasn't the red meat question that independents and anybody else is like, come on, why are they asking her that question? she's a woman and these things are gendered. how women are perceived when they respond in hostility to the press, even by republicans, is perceived differently than when a woman does it.

when lindsey graham, oh, my gosh, that was so brave and bold -- >> let alone what kavanaugh did. >> i don't think it was a smart move. she's desperate, going to flail around, hope she's thrown an anchor or life preserver by trump, and anyone who's running in 2020 knows trump ain't coming for you. >> cory gardner, again, the states are becoming more and more similar. arizona used to be a far-right winger and it's changing because of the demographics who's moving there, whusz o's retiring there cetera. cory gardner is also in trouble, also under water, having an issue, he's chosen the opposite which is to seem reasonable and do what a senator is supposed to do. i'm going to listen to the evidence and be objective. he also then faces a risk from fox news, because he is now off script, he's not singing from the hymnal. what are the risks to him in conservative media for just

seeming reasonable? >> well, exactly that. i think it helps explain why the party has become so far right. even on the state level where you would expect more moderation. it's this idea that if you do try to sort of weave that more moderate path, you're going to get punched so hard from your right. part is going on the offensive by making these kinds of liberal hack statements. but it's also going on the defensive, keeping yourself from being attacked from the right. whether it's from fox news or from conservative websites or conservative talk radio. so, there's a defensive gesture there, too. we'll see how much of that gardner picks up when he tries this more moderate path through the campaign. >> yeah. tiffany and how long it lasts, right? trying to sort of be a regular order republican in this era is difficult. mitt romney is rich. there's nothing trump can really do to mitt romney, right? he's not even up this year. but for somebody like gardner, he has to decide whether -- how

he wants to -- if he's going to lose, how he wants to lose. >> and he's running in a state that trump will likely lose. you keep seeing colorado -- your hometown, as a matter of fact. it's trending more blue. there's just this concerted effort, to quickly touch on manu raju, when he asked that question to mcsally, i have to say, manu raju, i've never heard him express an opinion. >> he had a recent confrontation with omar -- he asks -- this wasn't even a tough question. >> and i think he and murkowski a few years ago also had an exchange when he was trying to ask questions. i think, you know, there is this attempt -- like i said before with the media trying to present both of these arguments as if they're coherent, legitimate arguments. i think that does a disservice to democracy. i think when we see the rules coming out of this impeachment trial, the fallout from that manu raju questions, and now reporters can't have their phones in there, they can't have

access to senators leaving the trial. i'm not a spokesperson for washington post, but it's true. voters won't be able to see how their senators are responding. they won't be able to ask the tough questions. i think this is, in part, why donald trump has assembled this parade of tv stars and personalities like ken starr and all these talking heads. ken starr who he hated 20 years ago, by the way. now this is your crew because that could distract the media. we have elected a clown. we're seeing the circus show. donald trump trump remains the ringmaster. he knows he can manipulate these talking points. republicans wouldn't have any accountability from the press if these rules are to remain in place. >> this -- the strategies are all coordinated. that's not me giving an opinion. that's what mitch mcconnell said. he's coordinating the impeachment trial with the defendant. and so the question is, does donald trump want a full circus

where he has his tv lawyers, alan dershowitz, ken starr, everyone performing for him, or mcconnell would he rather have it in darkness where he can protect his vulnerable members from having to be accountable to the public for the way they behave? >> what what i've heard from sources close to the president, for now he's deferred to mcconnell and will count as a short trial and basically let mcconnell drive the bus. that said, if trump perceives, and we know trump is the thinnest skin person on earth, if he perceives things aren't going his way, he'll throws bombs into the process, he might get jim jordan or some most fire brand trump supporters involved in his defense. so, really this comes down to whether jump thinks this process is working for him. and he constantly plays the victim. my bet is that, you know, by the

time this is over, it will devolve into a circus. the last point i want to make, i think what is so troubling about dynamic is we aasymmetrical accountability in american politics. what i mean by that is the republican party, their voters get their news from fox news. and so they -- their politicians are not held to the same standards as democrats are interviewed aggressively by all the media, you know, msnbc, cnn, "new york times," npr. the media asks democrats questions they would never ask of the republican party. when martha mcsally makes a comment like that to manu raju, they cheer lead -- >> they run right to fox news and run right to their email list and fund raise off of it. gabe, can you back up the reporting that we've heard this week that the white house is preparing, though, for their to be witnesses, they're preparing

for the likelihood that some witnesses will happen and there's a potential that republicans might try to turn that into a circus, too, by trying to drag adam schiff or joe biden in front of the cameras as well? >> that's clearly what i'm hearing. the talking point that's coming out of the white house is if there's going to be witnesses, we want our witnesses. so, they're going to call hunter biden or joe biden or adam schiff or the whistle-blower. and, you know, that's going to put democrats into a bind. clearly, you know, if they want witnesses, i don't know how they're going to make the political argument, well, we're not going to have these witnesses. they can argue it's not relevant to the trial, but i think that is -- that's the pressure point republicans are going to hit on. >> and, eric, you know, or maybe they shouldn't resist it. the reality is, you know, i think i said this yesterday, republicans think they want adam schiff to be a witness, until he's sitting in front of them being a witness. he's really good at this. there's reporting that mark meadows went on steve bannon's radio show a couple weeks ago to

pitch matt gates to be. do you want that versus adam schiff? >> as gabe said, nobody ever really knows how something is going to play out when trump is pulling the strings and things like that. my concern in terms of the media coverage, we saw this with the house, please don't do this both sides. let's not have -- let's not have the dominant narrative be, gee, they can't agree. let's not have hang wringing about lack of civility, our institutions are failing us. two of our major parties in this country that have effectively, unequivocally divorced himself from reality. that is the news story. the news story is they can't agree. democrats are running an incredibly sophisticated factual, straightforward impeachment -- prosecution and the republican party is literally saying, we don't care. they're down to the point where they're saying, we don't even care if he's guilty.

we don't like the democrats' motivation. that's the story. let's not do this both sides nonsense. >> and, nicole, that's what the right-wing media has benefitted from. it's a different world they're living in. they know their politicians, republican politicians, are not held to the same standard. >> absolutely. one of the big stories the past 10 or 15 years in politics has been the right to hack values of mainstream journalism. they really benefitted from that. i think there's now a real pressure and importance for journalists to not only not do that kind of both sides reporting but to also do more than just debunking the lies and the conspiracy theories coming out here and exposing the systems through which those con spir connecticut spircys are

built. >> there's this sort of overcompensation among journalists and republicans are not making this argument in good faith. >> i have to come to the table here. you're here from theroot.com. tiffany, you've been following capitol hill and have been in the media and both of you make this argument all the time. journalists of color don't really have that problem. >> right, right. >> if you're black, as a scholar or working at the root, when you're black it's assumed you're liberal. it's always assumed you're supporting the democratic side. it's assumed you're aligned with certain ideas and beliefs one way or another. and it seems to give an excuse for people on the right to be hostile to you. a black person can ask you about the budget the same way as any other color person can. that's part of the issue. the other thing is we're in a complicated position right now where the press not only has to hold politicians and institutions accountable but they have to hold each other accountable. that's a real challenge when you have to look at your colleagues

at other networks and say, you're spinning a right wing talking point. the guest you have is not being honest one way or another. that's an ecosystem we've never had to face. >> we're facing a culture shift. three or four years ago if either of us said he's a racist and perpetuating racist policies, the media gatekeepers would have collected their pearls. now it's welcome, welcome to truth land. >> they passed a resolution saying he's a racist which is a change -- >> you've seen a changed in the lexicon. you've seen a change in it the verbiage journalists use now. look, i think the fact that black people have been enslaved people in this country longer than we've been free, listen to us next time white supremacy surfaces. we should be your experts. >> and i think it makes another case for why you need diversity in media. a diverse -- >> not just diversity in media, diversity in decision-makers. when you whitewash the black american experience, you are destroying democracy at the same time. fist bump.

>> the other issue, too, there is a way media is trained to do this which is there is -- there isn't a respect for the institution of the presidency. if i cannot tell you how many times we've all watched donald trump yell at members of the media, tell them to shut up, tell them to sit down, telling them they can't ask questions. i i think of sam donaldson continuing to yell at ronald reagan and what happened to the sense among media that this person is just an employee of 327 million people. he's not our boss. we're his boss. what happened to that sense of -- that attitude toward power? >> i think it goes back to the point of working the refs. there's an intimidation at work. you do not yell at a republican president. sam donaldson, god bless him, did. the last 20 years, that's not a thing. that is just not a thing. so, you know, trump is the most radical player in american political history in terms of

power he has achieved and the press has not adjusted. every time trump says something, we have to give him a trump says headline. we have to pretend it's true for eight hours and then we'll debunk it. no, journalists are smart and sophisticated. the news rooms are filled with very smart people. they are being paid to pretend they don't understand what's going on. it's kind of this kabuki dance and we shouldn't be doing it. >> i just got this in my ear from my ep. keep talking to me if i'm saying it wrong. the hugh hewitt apparently just said on his radio show and the press just reported this -- said on "meet the press." hugh how wit ewitt is on "meet press" and he said he's going to vote for bernie sanders in the virginia primary. this seems to be some part of operation chaos move. you're saying, yes, that's what you're seeing happening. this is the reason poom don't think open primaries are a good idea. >> rank choice voting and

everything else like that that prevents these sort of shenanigans. when republicans are voting for you, it's usually -- >> i wonder if there is a -- is a sense that the conservative media is also trying to make those kinds of choices about the way that they're covering these democratic nominees based on who they think trump could -- trump would be more helpful to trump in the election? >> other, sure, they're trying to figure out how to sow chaos in the democratic ranks. i don't think they're the biggest threat to voting and making sure the people's vote is reflected but it is something that, you know, rush limbaugh has done this through several election cycle ises. >> he's been an utter failure at it, by the way. it never works. it never works. gabe, before i let you go, because i want to get reporting from you. does the white house have a sense of who they would prefer to run against? >> clearly they're dancing at

the idea of bernie sanders or elizabeth warren. that would be the dream ticket, of course, if they joined -- >> why are they working so hard to make it joe biden? or to take out joe biden? >> you know, they're really worried that trump world is worried joe biden will peel off, has the best chance of peeling off voters in pennsylvania, wisconsin, ohio. the industrial midwest that trump carried in 2016. that's historically been biden territory. >> are they scared of bloomberg? >> they're scared of his money and the idea that he can basically has an unlimited checkbook to fund attack ads against trump. i don't think anyone says bloomberg feels as an actual threat. >> bloomberg, any traction? >> no. steyer is doing better than he is in most polls. >> the only thing i will give bloomberg, he got a huge endorsement out of south carolina. that's a big endorsement.

>> i asked the mayor, why did you do that? what was the kick? he said he believes bloomberg has a path to victory and a lot of the programs around mbk, my brother's keeper, that bloomberg continues to fund and be a part of. >> $100 billion. that will scare trump. >> that's a lot of trap doors. >> thank you very much. tiffany cross, please stick around. up next, why virginia is declaring a state of emergency ahead of a gun rights rally. it's tough to quit smoking cold turkey. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix,

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we're seeing threats of violence. we're seeing threats of armed confrontation and assault on our capital. state intelligence analysts have identified threats and violent rhetoric similar to what has been seen before other major events, such as charlottesville. >> virginia governor ralph northam has a state of emergency and band weapons from the grounds of the capitol after six neo-nazis were arrested ahead of a rally, known as martin luther king jr. day. the base, weirdly and

coincidentally and the english translation of al qaeda. not to be done by racist online trolz, the president of the united states stoked up tensions further by a twitter attacking the ban on weapons in the capitol, which is temporary and designed to prevent a repeat of the deadly violence in charlottesville, where activist heath heather haier lost her loif. joining me is darrell jenkins and mark thompson, host of the podcast make it plain. thank you for being here. darrell, let me start with you. trying to explain this lobby day, which is an annual event for this gun rights group. and the lobby day, according to fox.com is an annual event for the pro-gun rights group to lobby members of the state government. this year virginia is on the cusp of passing gun control laws because democrats won so many victories there. talk a little about about them,

a little about this group the base the fbi has been paying attention to, and what do you -- how do you assess the threat level on monday? >> i assess the threat level as being a lot more than just rhetoric on the part of a lot of individuals. we have seen that the characters they picked up from the base, or reputed to be in the base, were coming there with weapons, with explosives. they mean to do some harm. we have them communicating those threats of violence online. and verbally to people that -- who, unfortunately, is -- who are encouraging them from the mainstream. i don't want to mention any names right now. but the fact of the matter is, we are seeing the same people who were in charlottesville, the same exact people who were in charlottesville basically coming out to be a part of this. however, there are other white

supremacists, other hate mongers in char lets vil discouraging them from coming out because they're afraid this is a setup, if you're in the capitol area, you're going to be in the kill zone. it's going to be a mess. it's going to be a total mess. we don't know what to expect. i'm going to be there on monday. but we're basically going to pull back and just see how things unfold. >> this is, according to "the new york times" about this group, the base, the fbi has grown increasingly worried about the base as it works to recruit new people. they encourage the onset of anarchy. experts say its founder, an american, appears to be living in russia. this is according to vox for you, mark. there are three new bills on the table being proposed in virginia which is run by -- democrats won a lot of victories there, basically running the state now, that would require background checks, limit the handgun

purchases per month and would ban guns in government buildings. we know virginia is a supermarket for guns that wind up in new york and around the country. what do you make of the fact this group has chosen to fro test those new bills on king day? >> well, first of all, and thanks as well for having me, joy. good morning to you. >> morning. >> they have chosen virginia, obviously, because the nra is a resident of virginia. their headquarters is right there. this is ground zero for the nra. what -- obviously doing this on martin luther king's birthday is repulsive. as a matter of fact, some of the first gun legislation, which was proposed by lbj, was right after dr. king was assassinated. in the debate went further when bobby kennedy was assassinated just two months later. this is an ongoing struggle around this second amendment

argument. they obviously want to exploit it and use dr. king's day, all in keeping with what charlottesville was all about. if you're going to have a neo-nazi gun rally on martin luther king jr. day, what's the difference between that and charlottesville? now you have trump tweeting about it. is he going to say, both sides, many sides again if something happens? but what none of them seem to realize, as you said, joy, the legislature has the votes to do this because democrats won the legislature in 2018. in 2017 democrats won the governor's mansion, which is rare, consecutively in virginia. why did democrats win the governor's mansion? why did they win the state legislature? because of charlottesville. it's ridiculous for them to say republicans will win virginia in 2020. if something terrible goes down tomorrow, even if it doesn't, just their very presence there will probably guarantee democrats once again will win

whatever seats there are to win in virginia? 2020. >> i want to point out the virginia citizens defense league, he's not saying they are neo-nazis. let's play heather who lost her daughter in the charlottesville hell that took place and her mom's name is susan and she was on the "today" show. here she is. >> i think what people often don't realize is that an ordinary white kid can easily get sucked into that. so, as parents are trying to value their children's privacy, value their children's space, they might want to check in a little more often, be a little more aware of what's going on. so often the kid you least expect is the one who's deeply embroiled in white supremacist movement. it's very seductive.

>> darrell, this is your area of expertise. what do you make of her advice? >> here's the important thing to remember when we -- as we deal with richmond. i do not believe that the gun issue is the main issue. i doubt that sincerely. you have a legislator that is in a safe house right now because of legislation he wants to get passed that has nothing to do with the issue of guns. they're angry at him. they're filing death threats against him and all that. i think when it comes to those young people out there who get caught up in this kind of nonsense, it's going to cost them. we see how much it cost them after charlottesville. the same thing is going to happen if they're a part of this. i encourage many people who are still trying to be involved in this kind of nonsense to give it up. to knock it off. this is not the kind of society that is going to go forward that

way. and if you insist on being a part of it, you're going to be x'd out. >> and the white ethno state thing, isn't going to happen. >> no. >> what do you make of the fact, mark, that jerry falwell jr. says that he will call for civil disobedience if virginia democrats implement these gun laws. your thoughts? >> that's ridiculous. i doubt very seriously there will be many virginians who participate in that. he ought to get out of that, too. this is just another opportunity donald trump is taking, an opportunist that he is, to try to exploit what really is a sacred holiday. how do you engage in something promoting guns on the day in which the very dreamer was assassinated with a gun? but this is his m.o. and he's trying to appeal to his base in the hopes that will help him in 2020 and probably also distract

from this impeachment but it's not going to work. >> thank you very much. in advance, wish, you guys a wonderful and hopefully peaceful mlk day. thank you. >> same to you. >> same. >> thank you. more "a.m. joy" next. more "t we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa

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after a ferocious backlash, the national archives admitted it was wrong. the mea culpa comes after "the washington post" requires the archives blurred some signs critical of donald trump. they tweeted out an apology, saying, quote, we made aid mistake. they said it was part of a promotional display for a new exhibit, not an artifact but has agreed to remove the picture and replace it with the original as well as look into current policy to make sure things like this don't happen again. it came amid yesterday's women's marches with thousands took to the streets in cities across the country. nearly three years after the original photo was taken. more "a.m. joy" after the break. . to be honest a little dust it never bothered me.

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do you think it was proper for the president to solicit foreign interference in our election? >> well, i don't know that has been actually proven. you know, that's all in dispute. >> we've seen the president in public ask the ukrainians to get involved, ask the chinese to get involved. >> well, those are just statements political. they make them all the time. >> if president obama was calling hong kong or calling governments, asking about you and your business career, would that be a legitimate use of presidential power? >> that's a totally improper

characterization. >> when it comes to donald trump, nancy pelosi may pray for him privately but she's orchestrated the church of holy hell. >> donald trump's republican lackeys were out in force on the other sunday shows this morning. once again trying to defend his conduct as his impeachment gets under way this week. it's hard to tell with the facts of the case. that's apparently just fine, by alan dershowitz, who says if all the allegations are true, it does not rise to civil defense. joining me tiffany cross of the beat d.c. and david korn of mother jones, the author of "russian rou letlette." let's play dershowitz, so here he is. this is his argument for trump. >> i have limited role in the case. i'm only in the case as of counsel. on the constitution aal criteri

for impeachment. not involved for witnesses and -- you need proof of an actual crime. doesn't have to be statutory crime but criminal in nature. even if everything that is alleged by the house managers is proven or taken as true, they would not rise to the level of an impeachable offense. >> have you ever had a case in which you were representing someone, kind of, and also is it in your -- as an attorney, do you agree with the idea that the only thing that you can impeach for is an actual crime not crimes and misdemeanors -- or crimes and other misdemeanors? >> no, not at all. if you look at the constitution, it's very, very clear with respect to what you can impeach someone on. but with respect to how i run my practice, i don't understand why it is that alan dershowitz, who has appeared many times and said he's represented a variety of different people, such as jeffrey epstein, i don't

understand why he would be wanting to sort of have this bifurcated or weird approach with representing the president. usually whether a client comes to you and they want you to represent them, you lay out how it is that you intend to represent them. let me just say also, joy, with respect to documents and witnesses not being able to appear before this senate trial, i find it incredibly bizarre because when my clients come to me and they have something they want to prove, they come with a list of 20 to 30 witnesses. they come with boxes of documents. actually, have to convince them to scale it back. why? because they want the truth told. but you don't see that happening here. so, you know, this is now almost a three-ring circus. it's unfortunate. but like i've said before on your show many times, elect the clown, expect the circus. when you just played all of those clips of elected officials, of republicans who are supposed to be representing their constituents, who take an oath to the constitution, it is clear that they have not taken an oath to the constitution or

they don't take it seriously, rather, they have taken an oath to donald trump. and it's unfortunate. it's bad for our democracy. >> well, that is true, they have taken that latter oath. a little more alan dershowitz, let's play a little more of him on witnesses. >> the one thing that's very clear is if witnesses are permitted on one side, they have to be permitted on both sides. if witnesses are permitted, it will delay the trial considerably because the president will invoke executive privilege as to people like john bolton, that will have to go to the court and will have to have a resolution of that before the trial continues. >> i know he's a lawyer on tv. technically you're not a lawyer, but he's -- john bolton has already said he would testify. he said he would do it. he's saying he would have to go back to court and the only way it could be permitted is if the other side could call joe biden, who's not relevant to the case. >> well, i'll start off by sayingings if you read federalist paper 65 by alexander

hamilton, he describes impeachable offenses as abuse of public trust. he also says these offenses tend to be political in nature. he put political in all caps. so, you know, dershowitz's argument that abuse of power is not impeachable or unconstitutional is something that he's sort of pulling out of thin air. you know, what we have a situation here where it's really -- you know, we argue about witnesses. we argue about evidence. but what we're really doing as you saw from those clips earlier is arguing about reality. you have members of the senate, who won't even acknowledge that trump said publicly to china, investigate joe biden, that he said, yes, i wanted ukraine to investigate. they won't put out that the gao put out a finding he broke the law. that parnas said it was a shakedown and there was a smoking gun came out this week that they won't acknowledge.

giuliani's letter to zelensky, the president of ukraine, saying i'm representing trump in a private capacity for his personal interest. so, it wasn't about anything public dealing with corruption. he was after something for trump privately, but trump used his office to get it. i mean, it's a very clear-cut case. that's why dershowitz is not arguing the facts. he's arguing the abstract notion. >> very abstract. here's senator dick durbin and his warning to his colleagues on the republican side. >> this point, the senate is on trial. i hope at the end of the day enough republican senators will understand history will find you. make certain that you make a decision that you can live with in terms of our constitution and your own professional career. >> you know, tiffany, you've been a long time covering capitol hill and interacting with these political figures. they have seemed to make a decision they all go in together, they all go down together with trump. and i still remember lindsey graham saying, if we nominate

donald trump, he will destroy the republican party. >> aold lindsey graham. >> they seem to have decided that's okay. >> bravo to the producers of "a.m. joy" for stringing together those sound bites at the beginning. that is so indicative of where we are now. they are literally on earth 2. they are regurgitating ridiculous things. you feel like you're watching an "snl" sketch. that's why it's so important to press these senators in media. has anyone promised you or threatened you with anything for your blind allegiance of this president? bravo to "a.m. joy" for highlighting the santos connection here. he has lev parnas connection. we have him colluding with these two guys who like like they would be extras on season two of "the wire." who else, how many tentacles

does this have? >> this is showing the deep rot throughout the trump administration, trump era. and the democrats thought -- they made a miscalculation. they thought they had a really neat and easy impeachment case here. you know, just the ukraine deal. it's much bigger. >> it's much bigger. i wish we had more time but we have a special thing coming up. we'll end the segment here. believe me, you will all thank me for this. coming up at the top of the hour, alex will have her moment of maxine as congresswoman maxine waters joins her live. up next on "a.m. joy," stay with us, the winner of who won the week. dot, dot, dot. i think the house is changing him... -[ gasps ] -up and at 'em! ...into his father. [ eerie music plays ] is it scary? -[ gasps ] -it's in eco mode. so don't touch it. mm-hmm. i can't stop this from swinging. must be a draft in here. but he did save a bunch of money bundling our home and auto with progressive.

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♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) you may pay as little as $25 per prescription. ask your health care provider today about once-weekly ozempic®. i think you might overly intellectualize it and say it's just hair. people have been reminding me of the aria song, i am not your hair, you are not your hair. and that's true. but i still want it. so, i'm trying to find my way here and i do believe going public will help.

>> that video is breaking down the stigma surrounding hair loss and inspiring countless women across this country, so much so that for this week's edition of "who won the week" there is no need for a competition because we have a hands down winner. massachusetts congresswoman ayanna pressley. i just want to tell you, first of all, thank you for being here. thank you for winning the week. >> thank you for the honor. >> well, i have to tell you, i watched that video, first of all, it was hard for me not to ugly cry watching it. it was so inspiring. you talked about dealing with a alopecia. here you are in your beautiful self. tell me how you decided to go public with what was a very

personal struggle. >> here's the thing, joy, i was suffering in silence and felt really shackled by the silence and the accompanying shame and isolati isolation. and i felt firmly that in order for me to lead authentically, that i would need to be transparent. also, i knew i would owe people an explanation, not only because a protective hairstyle and braid had become a conflated part of my personal identity and brand, but because as a woman and a woman in politics, and certainly as a black woman, everything is political. this is not shocking. i've introduced legislation to guard against the fact that black girls are pushed out of the classroom for how they wear their hair. i have colleagues who have been pressured by supporters and donors alike not to allow their hair to go gray. colleagues who have been told that they should straighten their hair and not wear it

curly. and so hair is political. so far as who won the week, it's millions of those in this country that are living daily with the trauma and the stigma of hair loss, navigating the world bald, which challenges conventional normals and societ standards of what is beautiful or handsome. this is a transcendent issue. i want to give a shoutout to bald nation, my fellow alopecians. i've been hearing from men and women and children alike from throughout the country. so they win the week. i'm grateful i have a platform to shine a light on the issue. >> i have a dear friend and family member who both have dealt with alopecia. when you came forward with it,

it was so moving for me personally. as you know, i am a beneficiary of the crown act that has freed even people in my profession to be able to wear braids. i hear from so many particularly young black women, even young black men who say wearing our hair in its natural state is so important to them, it means something to them. and you, as you said in the video, are somebody who was carrying that to capitol hill. and so for you to now embrace who you are now, as you said, as a proud alopecian, a woman who has conquered that, it's this thing that we have as black women, it's a heroic. >> you win the week for me every day, joy. we love how you are -- we love your crown, and we thank you for taking up that space. again, none of us is here to simply occupy space. we're here to create it. i'm very humbled we were able to

do that this week. >> you are incredibly brave. i also want to talk about the other piece what have you are doing politically, pause you have come forward as a supporter of senator elizabeth warren and her run for president. and you're going to be out on the stump for her. talk a little bit about that. >> absolutely. i've been out on the stuff for her. this is really just a continuation of what is a nearly decade-long close friendship and partnership and good. elizabeth is my friend, she is my senator, she is my partner. we've worked on so many issues together including consumer protection for those who have been victimized by for-profit colleges and universities participating in predatory and deceptive business practices and marketing, supporting surviving family members who have lost loved ones due to the epidemic and public health crisis that is

the gun crisis. it's a testament to the warren campaign that they leaned up and made that decision to have three freshmen women as co-chairs. policy is my love language, and she has introduced policy and plans that are about two things. power, and then intersectionality. none of us live in big check boxes. we love in nuance and complexity and intersectionality. you see this in her racial justice policies, in her lgbtqia platform and disability platform. again, these aren't set asides. i'm on my way iowa imminent will he and i'm pleased to announce i'll be making my way to south carolina. i'm emboldened by the deep,

diverse, multicultural and multigenerational coalition that i see her building. her ground game is strong. and that is how we take this white house back. it's by out-organizing the other side. and it's by staying focused. >> and you speak to this idea of intersectionality so beautifully and so brilliantly. let me ask you a question that's come up, it's a thing now we're talking about, is it important in and of itself for america to have a president who is a woman, and why? why does that even matter? >> we all bring our own unique, lived experiences as lawmakers to the job every day. gender is a big part of that. we know that when we have a diversity of perspective opinion, thought, and experience around the table of policy, in the corridors of power, and indeed at the highest office, the oval office, that you'll see that reflected in policies. i know there are some that would argue that identity politics is

ruining our country. that's not true. hate and white supremacy are ruining our country, not identity politics. there is power in the identity of a survivor. there is power in the identity of being a woman. there is power in the identity of being a black woman. there is power in the identity of being a person living with a disability. people talk about elizabeth being an extraordinary educator and professor but she's a better student. that's what we want, somebody who will lean in and respond with policy. i've been in proximity to her for a decade, i've seen her do it in church basements, in school gymnasiums. i want a president that will bring their identity but actively lean into the identities of all those and make sure they're responsive to policies so everyone can heal and thrive. >> congresswoman ayanna pressley, first of all you look

like a gorgeous wakanda warrior, you are beautiful and making it fabulous, you look great. congratulations. thank you. and also, thank you for always encouraging black girls to vote because i know black girls vote, that's a passion we both share, that organization. thank you for all you do. >> thank you, joy. see you soon. >> thank you. have great day. soon >> thank you ve great day why are we doing this? why are we doing what? using my old spice moisturize with shea butter body wash...

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"a.m. joy" will be back next saturday, 10:00 a.m. eastern. up next, my friend alex witt. >> ayanna pressley, she is stunning. that's just the superficial. she can speak so beautifully. she's so impassioned and intelligent. elizabeth warren has nothing to worry about with ayanna pressley on the stump for her. >> this freshman class of 2016 -- >> so accomplished. >> -- of 2018, are probably the best all-in freshman class since 1992, the most inspirational class. she is at the top of that class. she's brilliant, she's a voting rights activist. she's just an advocate for people, an intersectional advocate. it's not political, i'm not even from her state, but as a human being. >> does she represent your alma mater? i know she is in the cambridge area. >> you know what, that's a good