a very good evening to you. breaking news. nba superstar kobe bryant killed in a helicopter crash in calabasas, california. the nba champion died in the fatal accident. it is believed eight others were on board, among them kobe's

13-year-old daughter gianna. an aspiring basketball star in her own right. fans gathered outside the staples center in los angeles. the site of so many of bryant's great athletic moments to celebrate his life and career. aviation sources tell nbc news officials are looking closely as whether weather had something -- dense fog may have contributed to the incident. let's bring in nbc's steve patterson who has been covering the crash. steve, as you've been on the scene all day, the last briefing that you know so well. the sheriff was saying the faa was on location. i was just mentioning how the ntsb is on its way and the coroner was also on its way. what's the latest? >> reporter: in fact, there were some coroner vehicles that were spotted in the vicinity here, richard, as well as a bulldozer, which is just over my right shoulder. we've seen a lot of equipment as the first responders,

authorities and crews now, along with investigators are really swarming the scene. the official word, though, will come from, as you mentioned, the ntsb, the federal authorities, which are, as you mentioned, again, on the way at this point. but, again, you know, the focus is going to be getting there as quickly as possible, determining what happened as quickly and as efficiently as possible as this investigation gets under way. you know, witnesses report hearing a loud boom followed by a fireball. some of the first responders here say the first order of business by far was getting rid of a very quick, fast-moving brush fire that had eaten up very quickly about almost a 1/4 acre of that hillside, which is now in the dark, which is still bin me, as are people who have come here all day to pay their respects. to really get eyes on the scene. we've seen people from all over the city of los angeles and elsewhere to come and really pay

their respects. we do hear that there is another press conference, another press briefing that is scheduled for just about an hour from now from the l.a. county sheriff's department. they had originally said that they would not be confirming any of the dead on board that craft until next of kin was notified. so, the assumption, the prevailing theory on scene is that that presser will announce maybe the names of everybody officially on board the helicopter. as we've been learning sort of unofficially about more about people that were on board the craft as this investigation has gone on. but the biggest obviously thing that we're waiting for is for the ntsb to arrive, for them to dig into what happened on scene there, and for them to quickly determine what has happened here. as you mentioned, again, it seems like part of the thrust of the investigation will be focused on the weather. i can tell you when we got here, which was maybe a few hours after the crash, there was still a thick fog layer above that

hillside. visibility just as i was driving here was pretty poor. so we can't imagine what it looked like at the time of the crash. that may be the focus of the investigation. but, again, it's going to take some time for investigators to arrive. richard? >> yeah, stephen, in certain parts, as you know so well, the southland is clear as a bell. in other places you will have often these overlays of smog or in this case fog. also, that helicopter sound over high also very common in southern california. and they'll be looking into all of that. do you know at this moment whether on the ground right over your left shoulder where the site is, will they continue to work overnight? >> reporter: so, i mean, i can't show you, obviously -- >> right. >> reporter: the background i have is completely dark, and there's the light pollution from all the national media, from the police, the law enforcement agencies on the ground, but what i can tell you is when i do look over my shoulder from time to

time you see flashlights, you've seen some activity, you've seen some movement. >> right. >> reporter: you can see right now -- i think i can see a shining light in the trees up there, but it's hard to point out and it's hard to tell. that is something we don't know. that is something we may find out in this next press briefing in about, you know, 45 minutes to an hour. richard? >> we do know there are dozens there on the ground. nbc's steve patterson who has been covering this story all afternoon. steve, thanks for keeping us up to date. i appreciate you starting us off this hour. there's been an outpouring at the location for kobe bryant that steve patterson was at and the staples center downtown. the grief grows this hour. president president obama, an avid basketball fan wrote, "kobe was a legend on the court and just getting started in what would have been just a meaningful second ask." shaquille o'neal which whom he won three nba championships wrote, "there's no words to express the pain i'm going through with the tragedy of

losing my niece gigi and my brother kobe." lakers great magic johnson said he loved talking to kobe about basketball, being fathers and husbands and about their love of italy. kobe bryant, the man and the player, touched many lives. nbc's gadi schwartz has more on his lasting impact. gadi? >> reporter: underneath the smiling face of kobe bryant at a memorial in los angeles, today unshakeable grief. >> he meant so much to the city of l.a. as a player, as a father, as a businessman, and as a mentor. there will never be nobody else like kobe ever. >> reporter: for the fans who have spontaneously gathered here at the stain lts center, the death of kobe bryant seems impossible. >> just disbelief. i feel like i lost someone in my family. >> there is probably nobody that has changed my life as much as kobe bryant, and, you know, i was hoping to see him, you know -- see him do so many great

things. >> reporter: and yet the flowers and tributes and tears are undeniably real. and then just as the sadness becomes unbearable, silent fans in los angeles begin to chant. >> thank you kobe. thank you, kobe. >> reporter: each filled with their own memories of the moments they witnessed, kobe's all-inspiring greatness. >> kobe is not just a person. he's a generation. he's a whole generation of all of us who were kids watching him. he's just -- he's irreplaceable, man. >> reporter: a man who made so many of us feel invincible when he took to the court now gone far too soon, memorialized today as one of the greatest athletes who ever lived. >> nbc's gadi schwartz reporting for us there at staples center in downtown los angeles. bring in now dave zirin, sports editor at "the nation" and on the phone we have kavitaa davidson, sports writer for the

athletic. thank you both for being here. dave, it has been said by president obama there was, unfortunately, an inability because of today's catastrophe, no second act for kobe bryant. >> yeah. >> but one might argue he was through his second act. we just don't know what his third, fourth and fifth act would have been. >> well, i don't want to overinterpret what president obama meant, but this idea of a second act had a lot to do with the trail that it looked like kobe bryant was going to blaze moving forward. the idea -- he won an oscar in 2018 for best animated short. the idea that he wanted to take the fame and the fortune that he had accrued as a basketball player and become something of a mogul, to become a creator and a creative in the world of hollywood, and even people like lebron james were looking toward kobe to blaze that trail for that next act. then there was also the next act of what was going to happen in terms of gianna, his daughter,

and this idea of kobe as the father of these amazing daughters. who knows what they were going to do. who knows what gianna was going to do. it's just the fact of those lives being cut short that i think is hitting people so hard. that kobe was 41, but it was like he was a young 41 because he was about to start a second life that we're now not going to be able to witness. >> for those who are not an l.a. laker fan or a kobe fan or do not watch the nba, who was kobe bryant? >> you know, that's a really complicated question to answer, frankly, but there are so many different responses that you'll get. i think the main response that you'll get when you are talking to basketball fans, whether they're laker fans or not, is that he kind of defined a generation of greatness. he could do things on the court that we thought we would never see since michael and we saw them with kobe. and, you know, i think fans

everywhere are mourning the loss of a talent, a personality. kobe was 18 when he came into this league. >> right. >> as dave said, he was 41 when he died today. we got the majority of kobe. i was really struck -- i went down to staples center immediately when i heard the news. i was there early and started to see fans trickle in, and a lot of the fans i talked to, you know, they said he was 41, i'm 42, like, this is a generation of people who came up watching kobe bryant when we were the same age as he, so i think that's something that's going to be hard -- hard to put into words in the next few days. >> and part of that -- and you make a really good point here, kavitha, when you think of kobe bryant and the time that he came of age, right, in the public sphere as he, again, played for 20 years. over to you on this, dave. he grew up in a time where fantasy football also grew up, where the relationship between an nba fan was one-to-one not so much from one to a team.

>> yeah. >> and so kobe bryant being loved by young fans all around the country also means that he was part of this globalization of the nba during the same time and has fans all around the world. >> well, the think about kobe, you talk about him being loved. what i find fascinating about kobe is no one was indifferent about kobe. people loved him. people hated him. >> or both. >> people were either for him or against him. there is an expression, you know, thin line between love and hate. the opposite of love is not hate but indifference. he inspired that kind of passion. to speak to what you said, for him to come up during this age of globalization meant he was more than an athlete. he became a brand, brand kobe, the first person signs michael jordan to be able to leverage that. kobe was going to leverage it differently than michael jordan. michael jordan leveraged it to become an african-american owner

of an nba team, which was trailblazing in and of itself. kobe wanted to do something outside of basketball. people had really high expectations as to what that next chapter would bring. it's the cutting short of that chapter. >> yeah. >> along with his daughter and the altobelli family who we need to raise up right now as well, three members who perished in that crash. we need to everybody who passed today. it's tragedy on top of tragedy. >> kavitha, reverend al sharpton had the opportunity to speak to kobe bryant during the funeral of michael jackson. the rev was telling me how kobe came up to the rev during that funeral because the rev was giving the eulogy. kobe said to the rev, this is very strange to see a person of this importance of my time, kobe's time, with michael jackson and his relevance both in pop culture as well as personally to see them go. i don't know how to process it, is it what kobe in so many words said to the rev.

and here we are today now seeing him passing at an age where he was not supposed to, by all counts. and now who else is looking at his passing and going, what does that mean to me? in your conversations with those in the nba, in the football world, and those on the ground, the fans, have they been asking themselves that same question that kobe asked so many years ago? >> i think it's exactly the same question. and even before the rev had that conversation on your show a couple of hours ago, i had said earlier this morning when i first heard this news, this remind me a lot of what new york felt like when michael jackson died. walking around the city and this eerie numb, heavy silence, this quiet that i witnessed down near staples center today was exactly what i witnessed, and i think what fans are feeling right now that they did back when michael jackson died. several people that i

interviewed, several people that i talked to said exactly the same thing to me. you remember where you were when certain people died. michael jackson was one of them and kobe bryant was absolutely one of them as well. and i think similarly, you know, we have such complicated and strong feelings about these figures that we're really going to need the time to process -- to process what kobe meant to us, to process his legacy, and it's not something that's easy to do just in that moment when you hear this news. >> dave? >> i mean, in the days ahead, there's going to be a lot of discussion about kobe bryant, about his journey, about his arc, about 2003 when he was charged with sexual assault and those charges being dropped in 2005. i think for today, i mean, i know it's hard to do in this ticker tape social media culture, but i think for today people just need to exhale and not police other people's grief and just let people feel what they are feeling because these are some very intense emotions. ers. >> absolutely, well said.

dave zirin, kavitha davidson, thank you so much. i appreciate your perspectives. >> thank you. coming up for you, we're going to have more on the death of kobe bryant and his daughter gianna and seven others right after this. >> it's very difficult for me to put in words how i feel about the loss of kobe bryant. kobe was an incredible family man. he loved his wife and daughters. he was an incredible athlete and a leader in a lot of ways. he inspired a whole generation of young athletes. i had the privilege of being there when he scored his 81-point game and it's something that i will always remember as one of the highlights of the things that i have learned and observed in sports. road-trip companion. it's kind of my quiet, alone time. audible is a routine for me. it's like a fun night school for adults. i could easily be seduced into locking myself

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to everybody who knew him. i've known him a long time. and, you know, he just -- he means a lot to me, obviously. you know, he was such a great opponent. you know? that's what you want in sports. he had that dna that very few athletes can ever have, you know? the tiger woods and the michael jordans, you know?

it's funny, i -- i was getting to know him more since he retired, you know? yeah, this is -- this is a tough one. >> on any average day in the southland, there you heard doc rivers, he was trying to figure out how to beat kobe bryant. today he is remembering kobe bryant as that foe he learned to love so much. the five-time nba champion dying in a fatal helicopter crash that killed eight others including his 13-year-old daughter gianna. with me now is jack mccallum a former basketball writer and dan shaughnessy, sports columnist for the "boston globe." reflect on that. when we hear from doc rivers here, jack, you really get a sense, you know, cross town rivals, you learn to love your opponent at a certain point, and surely doc rivers is referring that today. >> yeah, you know, i've been in

-- i've been -- i was firsthand hearing the phoenix suns -- i was doing a book with them, and i remember them talking in the '05/'06 playoffs about how to defend kobe. >> yeah. >> and the conversation -- the conversation went on for, like, an hour and a half. well, what do we do here? and some of the best minds in the game, mike cand'antoni and staff. do we do this and do we do that? after an hour and a half went, you know, we can't defend against this guy. they just spent an hour and a half trying to figure out how the hell to do it, and that was the kind of player that kobe was. there really wasn't a defense for the guy, even more so than maybe michael. i'm not saying -- i think michael jordan was a better player. i would always take michael over kobe. but when he was gone, when he was revved up, when he was on it, you were just not stopping that guy, and i think it was

that kind of thing that doc rivers was remembering today. >> dan, it was that tenacity, right, i mean, 60 60-point games in his career. that is just unfathomable, but there's tons of statistics i could go through, dan, and you know them by heart, certainly. when you think of someone like kobe bryant, he represented certainly a generation of an era leaving high school and going straight to the nba. the nba then changing the rules after that. and making it all the way through the social immediate era, if you will, of sports and that authenticity that was brought upon you, whether you wanted it or not as an nba star. >> yeah, he was really groomed for it. you know, his dad was in the nba. jack knows that being a philly guy. joe bryant, part of that sixer team. he grew up around it. of course he's in italy and masters italian and was really kind of a sophisticated guy who

had been around great players. he was ready to go from high school into the nba. so, he pulled that off magically in so many seasons. you know, i always think of these things, you know, being a boston guy that the celtic/laker thing was really a big part of the nba rivalry in the '60s and right through the '80s with bird and magic. kobe was the last stand of that with going against paul pierce and kevin garnett. they played in two finals in '08 and '10 and kobe's team lost in '08 and came back and got the celtics in '10 at home, and a very big deal for him to conquer that to win without shaq and to dethrone the celtics again. >> so, he called himself, as you two know, the black mamba. and, jack, that is a venomous snake. it is the largest venomous snake in some parts of africa. 14 feet long as they get. why did he call himself the black mamba? >> kobe was -- i'm trying to use

this word -- i was trying to think of one word to describe him, and i'm trying to think of the best use of this word, but it might not come out that way, and that is ruthless. kobe was the kind of guy -- usually when athletes die or we're even paying them tribute after, we say they made their teammates better. that wasn't kobe's thing. that was not -- that was not on kobe's mind when he went out there. i mean, you could say that about all the great ones. jordan had to learn that a little bit, but that wasn't kobe's thing. kobe was an island. kobe was to himself. and all that encompasses the bad and good of that, chuck daly used to say -- great coach. your greatest strength is your greatest weakness. kobe's was his feeling of utter invincibility, which led him to accomplish what he did on the court, get 60 points in his last game. i mean, that's just -- that's just absurd.

i don't care if you're taking 150 shots. but that same trait made him a very difficult teammate. you know, he was not easy to play with. and the games kobe won later in his career, and dan referred to the championships, you know, against the celtics, they won because of kobe's greatness. it wasn't because of kobe doing a magic johnson, hey, we're in this together, you know? so i say that with some measure of respect and some measure of that -- that kind of utter selfishness has to be part of what he was as a basketball player. >> we were showing some pictures for those of you just joining us on screen, that of the sheriff county vehicles in calabasas because they potentially are still working at this moment. the coroner going on site. we also understand that the faa is on site. the ntsb is headed there right now. so there's a lot of questions that we're still waiting to potentially get some answers on, and they're heading and they're

sending certainly their first responders to that space right now. back to our conversation here with jack and dan. and i'll play a little bit of former lakers great nba executive jerry west who talked about kobe bryant's death earlier on nbc. let's take a listen to that. >> i'm old enough to know that i'm not going to be here forever. and you see someone leave before your time, you just shake your head and you wonder why. and that's what my life and day has been like. >> jerry's a hall-of-famer. dan, many believe that's exactly where kobe was headed this summer. >> oh, no question. you know, it's really great to hear from jerry west on this. i'd never lived in los angeles, but i've been out there a ton, as has jack, and we know the sports culture and just the overall culture in l.a., it's a star culture, and in sports, you know, jerry west, sandy koufax,

you know, kind of the first guys with that, vin scully and carrying it through with kareem and magic. kobe i don't kn kobe, in my view, the last great l.a. superstar. like michael jackson or something. these guys become iconic. great to see images of people putting flowers outside the staples center. the impact this is going to have out there, a little like when dale earnhardt died in florida and just what car racing is down there. lakers are king in l.a. l.a. is a celebrity culture. this guy was their king. >> top to bottom. so many reflecting -- go ahead. were you going to speak quickly, jack? >> yeah, well, the thing is you heard the emotion in jerry's voice. jerry and kobe are so inextricably tied up. you know, when he was ready to come out of high school, and at that point there was no lebron. there was no sort of blueprint. i think kevin garnett was around

the same time, but there was no blueprint for a 17-year-old kid, which is what kobe was when he staged this immortal workout that jerry west assigned michael cooper, the lakers' best defensive player, and said go at this kid. kobe ate him up. jerry west saw, like, five minutes of the workout and go, i don't know what we got to do, but he's going to be a laker. and since that moment -- >> yeah. >> -- you know, jerry, sort of the era from the '50s and '60s was really tied up with kobe bryant. i mean, he was one of the ones that watched him play for five minutes and said, okay, we got the real deal here. >> a trailblazer in a lakers jersey. jack mccallum, dan shaughnessy, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> still ahead, a look at the life and legacy of kobe bryant. plus a look at the day's other top stories. stick around. >> it's a balancing act, and

that's the thing that's important is understanding that we have to have so much energy. because for, like, natalia and gianna when they were babies, especially natalia because they're still in prime years. i'd go to practice and i'd train and, you know, i'd play the game and, you know, i'd come home and i'd be sore and i'd be tired and she wants to go swimming, she wants me to take her to the park, she wants to just jump on my back or whatever the case may be. you can't say, i'm too tired, i'm going to lay down. that's not fair. she doesn't know what the hell's going on, right? and if this was a game, you'd suck it up and play. i played games with the flu. i played games with 102 degree fever, man. >> powerful. that is so powerful, man. >> you got to be on, man. >> that's big.

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if you're just joining us at the bottom of the hour, want to update you with the very latest on the breaking story of the death of kobe bryant. the sheriff saying nine were on board a helicopter that crashed in the 9:00 a.m. hour pacific time. kobe bryant, his daughter gianna, her friend and the parent plus the pilot are reportedly at this time. the cause is unknown. faa on the ground. ntsb en route. at the moment, more on this

shortly. but we're also watching these stories this hour. "the new york times" reporting tonight a peek into what's in former national security adviser john bolton's unpublished book. the book will reportedly lay out potential testimony from bolton. that is if he is called as a witness in president trump's impeachment trial. the paper reports bolton explains in detail how the ukraine scandal unfolded over the months leading up to his departure. and additional information about senior cabinet officials. also developing now, there are five confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the united states, according to the centers for disease control. there are two in california, one in arizona, one in everett, washington, and one in chicago. all five patients have travelled recently to wuhan china where it's believed the virus originated. at least 56 people in china have died from this virus and infected over 2,000 more. and tomorrow, president trump will hold back meetings -- rather, hold back-to-back

meetings with israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu and opposition leader bennie ganss. that plan was delayed multiple times over the past two years. more on the death of kobe bryant right after this. yant right after this smart bed, on s, you can both adjust your comfort with your sleep number setting. smart bed, on s, can it help me fall asleep faster? yes, by gently warming your feet. but can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. so, you can really promise better sleep? not promise. prove. and now, during the ultimate sleep number event, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus 0% interest for 24 months on all smart beds. only for a limited time.

what do you say to young black kids, young black men watching you today? >> look outside themselves and other venues, not the negative

paths to walk down. because there's so many in today's society. dig deep inside. be patient, be strong, hit the books, work hard and continue to dream. because that's another thing i think that's wrong with today's society, people try to shoot down our dreams. if you have a goal, something you want to accomplish, they put limits on us and tell us what we can and cannot do. i tell them to have faith in themselves. >> "meet the press" with time russert there. kobe bryant in 1998. joining us to look at the legacy of kobe bryant, author of the book "showboat: the life of kobe bryant." roland, you know kobe well. you wrote a book on him. you've been following him. when you look back to 1998 and see that young kobe bryant. he was starting his career. he was going to play for another 19 years in front of him. what do you think about? >> i think about the night he scored his first field goal in charlotte. he bounced into that locker room afterward just a picture of joy.

he hit me with a soul shake. he had no idea who i was. just some guy with the microphone and a recorder. but he was eager tore greet the world. he very quickly found out the nba was a very lonely place. i watched him suffer a lot through those times. but he was so determined. you know, he said, i'm not going to let them break me. i'm not going to let them break me. when i would talk to him either on the phone or in person, he would say, i'm going to find a way. his goal was to be the man. he was certain he was going to be the greatest player in nba history. he said, i don't know how i'm going to get there, but i'm going to find a way. >> you can pick the numbers -- numbers that you probably have memorized here. 48,637 minutes played. that is the sixth most in nba history. that's just one of the numbers here, roland. but if he was going to be the best nba player, who was he

going to be after retirement? in december 2017 when he was saying right before a game in an interview, i can't believe this is my last game, it feels like one of my first. >> yes. i will tell you that kobe from a young age showed a flare for writing. he enjoyed writing. his grandfather used to tell him, don't be a sweaty nba player, go be a writer, and he had a high school english teacher at lower marian high school in the philadelphia suburbs. kobe went on -- he had a recording deal with a rap group that he was friends with. he had this big thing, but he knew that he could not be the basketball player he wanted to be. he set those things aside. but he made plans. and, of course, he moved right out of his basketball career

upon retirement into the business of writing and producing and exploring that world. >> roland, what does the death and the passing of kobe bryant at 41, at a very young age, say about where we are today, where the nba is today? >> well, i think the death, first of all, is a tremendous loss to basketball. it's a tremendous loss. kobe was such a huge part of the culture of basketball. and i'm not talking about the culture of the game itself. he was that, but he was a young man who spoke languages. he lived in other countries. he had this view of the world that wanted no quarter. and he wanted to give none. he was a pure competitive spirit and he was going to do everything possible, no stone unturned, no -- no task shirked. he was going to do everything.

his ultimate decision in how he was going to get there -- >> mmm-hmm. >> -- is that he was going to outwork everybody. he was going to play every minute possible. he put tremendous pressure as a young rookie, a very young rookie -- >> mmm-hmm. >> -- when the game was filled with much older players. he put tremendous pressure on all of those grand lakers that he joined with how he played. with all of his enthusiasm, with his insistence on study. as the great jerry west told me, he didn't even date, and that was -- that was a huge part of it all. >> yeah. >> it was the full commitment. >> we know about kobe bryant 17 years and older because he joined the nba. what was his childhood like? what about his family in his early years formed who he became? >> well, his family, joe and pam

bryant, his parents, they were the darlings of philadelphia in so many ways. joe is from south philly. local guy. came up through college and got -- ended up with this fabulous contract to play for the 76ers. he was part of the bomb squad for the 76ers with lloyd be free. they had a wild and rowdy and very talented young bench. and joe was just sort of the toast of his hometown. and that all eventually played out. he got traded away. he ended up in houston and the san diego clippers. and joe was a big player. had a lot of bounce. and he was a showboat player. and, of course, that ended up being the nickname shaq had for kobe because kobe was a showman. he loved to be able to -- to thrill the crowds with the displays. he loved to dunk. all of those things.

and out of that culture, kobe found himself soon in italy riding the bus with his father's italian league teams. he would look at those older guys. the older guys on the italian league bus and say i'm going to be better than all you guys. >> it is a show that will be missed. show boat. author of the book "show boat, the life of kobe bryant". thank you. >> thank you. >> the toronto raptors are going to dribble it up. there's a 24 second shot clock. and, of course, kobe bryant wore number 24. and i wonder if that is what is happening in honor of him. 24 second shot clock expires.

kobe bryant was a forsz in the world of basketball. he played 20 seasons in the los angeles lakers' jersey. he was a five-time nba champion and 18-time all star.

he's fourth on the nba's all time scoring list. he was the father of four dies. one of them, gianna, who also died in the helicopter crash today. we look back at his life and career. >> he was one of the greatest basketball players of all time. and a career long laker. kobe bryant played in the nba for 20 seasons. a career which included five nba championships, 18 consecutive all star selections and two olympic gold medals. >> kobe bryant. >> the son of basketball player joe bryant, koeb entered the nba straight out of high school. >> when i was younger, it was like let's go. you want to win? let's do this. why aren't you working? let's go. let's go. let's go. as you get older, you have a family, you try to raise kids, and you learn patience. >> for the final time, number 24.

>> in 2016 bryant retired from the sport. he said he knew his body was slowing down. >> there's no sadness in that. i've had so many great times. i see the beauty in not being able to blow past defenders. i see the beauty in getting up in the morning and being in pain. i know all the hard work it took to get this to point. >> bryant brought to life his stunning career in an animated film titled dear basketball. he professed his love for the sport. >> no matter what i do next, i'll always be that kid with the rolled up socks, garbage can in the corner, five seconds on the clock, ball in my hands. love you always. >> kobe bryant was 41. >> joining us now on the phone, co-host of the espn program "high noon". jason page also. how have you been talking about kobe bryant and the

conversations you've had, what have you been hearing and learning? >> like this is stunning. the point that hit me about this is i remember when wilt chamberlain died in 1999 and how stunning that was, and he was 63 years old. at this moment, i don't know if it's a matter of kobe seeming like somebody who was invincible, but it's like this is what it felt like when tupac died. it's sentimental. he graduated from high school the year before i did. the idea of someone like this and someone who was such a significant magnitude being gone, i don't know how long it's going to take before people with come to terms with the reality that kobe bryant is dead. >> as a radio host, you talk about sports all the time. what have you been hearing and what have the conversations been

like? >> well, i come from a similar spot. kobe was one year younger than me. my sports casting career basically followed the path in terms of when he got into the league, i had kind of started in my career as a sports radio host. so i kind of feel a lot of what is being said, but i guess i'll take it from a bit of a fan standpoint, and talk about the fact that there weren't a lot of athletes and there aren't a lot of athletes today that are must-see tv. i grew up with my dad talking about sandy colfax. you knew you were going to see something special. when i think of kobe bryant from an on the court perspective and what he did on the court for 20 years, it didn't matter. his games were on the west coast. i'd stay up until 1:00 because i knew there was always a chance you were going to see something that you probably hadn't seen before. some remarkable performance when

kobe was on tv. it didn't matter if the lakers stunk or were good. it was like a tom hanks movie. if tom hanks was in joe versus the volcano, if you're a tom hanks fan, you're going to see it. the kobe was on a crappy lakers team, i didn't care. i was going to watch because it was kobe. i was going to watch. and there aren't a lot of people like that in any sport that you can talk about that way these days. >> you know, both you and jason when i was asking you about your conversations with those in the sports world as well as those in your respective shows in that space, you reflected on your own history and watching kobe bryant, and that says a lot, because as kobe reflected on michael jackson's passing he was saying that makes me ask where i am at in my path.

what was kobe bryant on in his path today? where was he going if he hadn't been stopped mid arc today? >> one thing that's interesting. i was reading and interview he'd done about his post basketball life. and the work he'd done in production and everything else. someone asked him what did you think people expected from you at this point? like i didn't have any idea what to do with myself since basketball, and i'm 100% one of those people because he was who focussed on that one thing. we'd seen it from other guys. they didn't know how to adjust. that wasn't the case at all. i think we had a better glimpse about the things he was into and the things that were important to him and the people he worked with. the idea of kobe bryant as mentor to younger players. that's something i would have expected but he said anybody that wants to call me, i'll work out with them. he had become someone who belonged to something larger. right? like he almost belonged to everybody, and i admit that as he got older, i found that to be surprising and endearing.

>> 30 seconds, jason in. >> i think what he said is point on there about him becoming more worldly. i think in his post basketball career we were getting a sense for just how worldly and the fact that he grew up overseas. how much of an impact that was going to play in his life beyond basketball. and it all feels like we've been robbed. it all feels like we've been robbed of the second career, the second career of greatness for kobe bryant. >> jase thank you both so much on the story of kobe bryant. i appreciate it. we'll stay on top of the latest coming out of california. the death of kobe bryant. stay with us right here on msnbc. can my side be firm?

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ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into the bidens. we will talk much more about that bombshell, the reporter that broke that. we begin of course tonight with the just awful, awful news out

of california, kobe bryant's sudden death. the helicopter crashed near los angeles.se police have the helicopter flight manifest. nbc news has learned kobe's 13-year-old daughter, john altobelli, his wife and daughter were all killed in that crash. the helicopter was taking the passengers to a travel basketball game when it went down.in bryant was known to take his helicopter to games and events. people have been flocking to the arena, staples center leaving h were all killed in that crash. passengers to a travel basketball game when it went down. bryant was known to take his helicopter to games and events. people have been flocking to the arena, staples center leaving tributes. bryant was a cultural icon. dominated an entire generation of the nba.

he entered the league right out of high school. no longer able to do that largely because of folks like him and kevin garnett. he was drafted 13th overall by the charlotte hornets but traded to the lakers.et he retired at the end of 2016 season, capping off a two decade career with one team, which is an increasing rarity. in fact, almost never happened. he won five nbc champions, two t final mvp awards, an all star 18 consecutive years. he scored monster 33,643 points, good enough for number four all-time. although, a week ago would have been number three. his final tweet was a celebration of the man who knocked him out of the number three spot as lebron james r passed him in points scored just last night. the man that sits on top of that list, kareem abdul-jabbar paid tribute this afternoon.

>> it's very difficult for me to put in words how i feel about the loss of kobe bryant. he was an incredible athlete and a leader in a lot of ways. he inspired a whole generation of young athletes. kobe, my thoughts are with you absolutely. rest in piece, young man. >> he won olympic gold medals in 2008 buy beijing and 2012 london. for folks that are my age, my generation, particularly basketball fans or just people c of the culture, i'm 40 years old, kobe bryant was 41 when he died. he towered over the nba. sometimes as hero and sometimes as villain.a.

he went through an entire lifetime of growing up in the public eye coming out right out of high school, becoming a star instantly. he was a controversial character. he was a beloved figure. he had changed, i think, quite a bit in the later part of his life, especially being a father, a mentor as he raised the girls who are now missing a father. but he was a transformative figure for a league that was losing michael jordan as he entered it. i will talk a little bit about his life and times now. but first the latest from the scene of the crash in calabases, california. steve, we have more information but not all of it. what's the latest now?l >> reporter: more to come. federal investigators will have to take a cross country trip. that's what they're doing right now from washington, d.c. to the scene here.

the objective is to get to the bottom of how in the heck this happened as quickly and as carefully as possible. investigators will be focussed on the hillside which is completely dark behind me.he there are still teams up there. i can still see flashlights as crews are working to secure the scene. speaking to witnesses today, they say there was a loud explosion, a booming sound followed by a fireball, obviously, a giant fire in the sky. in fact, most of the effort as fire crews and first responders got on scene was to contain the fire. as we now see some police activity behind me. there is about a quarter acre fire that was very difficult to contain because of magnesium that was very near to the scene if not onboard or part of what was contained on the helicopter. and, so, that was the first effort. the second effort came here with the announcement of first five dead. then it was nine dead according

to that manifest, as you mentioned. and then we started to learn that, yes, in fact it was kobe bryant on board the plane. yes, in fact, it was his 13-year-old daughter and the pilot. as we started learning more about the information about who was onboard, the crowd that had gathered here, you can see the visible change in people that had come to the scene i think really to confirm for themselves that this had happened. the news was so unbelievable for so long in the city of los angeles that i think some people just had to come and see it for themselves. in fact, the only way you can really get here because police have such a tight cordoned off on in the in so many directions is to park and then walk maybe at least a mile so you can gather here to see basically what we have been seeing all day, which is that smolders w wreckage up in the hillside up there which is now dark. now you can't really see anything. and still people are here looking up. there is still people.

i don't know how far you can see down here. people in kobe bryant jerseys are down there.n'ee obviously, yes, the national media is here. yes, the federal authorities and people are trying to keep the scene tight are here. but there is still so many fans and onlookers and mourners. we have been seeing them cry and sob all day. it is a heart-breaking scene. but mostly disbelief. people with this stunned stare on fair face looking up at the scene. it's been a really heart-breaking day i think for folks that are anywhere near this. >> we will keep monitoring developments. i want to bring in our nbc correspondent outside the staples center where the los angeles lakers play in los angeles. fans have been gathering there e since the news of kobe bryant's death. i think we will join him in just a second. i want to bring in the host of

the daily podcast, "the gist." and retired nba veteran thomas. mike, let me start with you here at the desk. you know, you feel -- you end up feeling like you know people that you don't know when you are in -- when they are in your life, when you watch them as long as we watched kobe bryant during these formative years. i think the personal grief people are experiencing is a testament to that. >> yes. and when you see them change and when you appreciate their growth and it reflects something in you that you can see, it's not just the comic book villain if you are not a lakers fan, i don't know how people would react. people will react with mourning, but i did think that there would be a part of it, well, i never liked him because he wasn't on my team. what i think has surprised me a little bit is his death cuts

through just the allegiances of fan dom, and he really spoke to a broader aspect of the culture, which is that we don't really have a mono culture.on we look at things from our own perspective. when kobe bryant dies, we can take a step back and say, what a great player. look at these other things he did off the court. i think people were really excited in a way you don't ever really see with a former athlete, were really excited to see what he would do in his post paying days. he started with an oscar and getting better from there. >> he was only 41. he's obviously extremely, extremely smart guy. there is no question about that. he was multilingual. he had grown up abroad. he had huge sort of -- he had incredible verbal dexterity as well. he was able to carry himself in interviews.

he had a kind of performtive streak. what was your experience like playing against him competing with him? >> well, you know, everybody knows what he accomplished on the court. but the thing that i admire about him the most was seeing him as a father, you know, as a father myself. and i spent the day yesterday at my daughter's volleyball tournament, you know. and just seeing him and the images of him with his daughter, you know, coaching them and he coaches their team and sitting court side and breaking down s everything to her, the ins and outs of the game, those are ns precious moments, especially for a blackman where the us overprevailing narrative is that we aren't involved in our children's life, especially for a black athlete. there is a lot of things he has been able to go against the grain on and really show, which is why he's looked at as so much

more overall outside of basketball. >> yeah. that clip we're playing right there he's talking to his daughter and they're watching a game and they're going through some bit of xs and os and it just happened a moment on the court, why the decision has shook out the way that it had and this sort of moment of recognition if she is listening to get that info for that. i want to play this amazing clip of him talking about his older l who wanted to be a professional basketball player like his father was before him. he's talking to jimmy kimmel. take a listen. >> the best thing that happens is when you go out and fans will come up to me and she will be standing next to me like, hey, you got to have a boy. you have to have a boy to carry on your tradition. she's like, oi, i got this. >> you know, dave, he was -- he was a larger than life figure y throughout the period of time in the nba.fe partly because i think he came

into the league so young and also at the tail end of the jordan years and clearly aspired to -- i mean, he studied jordan. he talked about jordan all the time. he talked about jordan's work ethic and practicing michael jordan's moves. he saw himself as destined to take that role. h >> this is how focussed kobe bryant was at the age of 17. he was asked to be in the monica/brandy video "that boy is mine" and he said no because he was entering the nba draft and didn't want to look like he was distracted to nba executives. that was kobe from day one. you have to have that kind of focus. i keep thinking of a story that another player told me about playing with jordan -- i'm sorry, playing with kobe on the lakers and kobe showing up to practice two hours early without a ball and just doing his moves

on the court without a ball and practicing his foot work over and over again just playing against his own shadow and he pl told me he had just never seen anything like that. when it came to focus, kobe was in a league of his own, and it just added to his legend. he was a polarizing figure. there is that expression, the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. i wasn't indifferent towards kobe bryant. but on my son's basketball team, which i coach sixth grade team, when they shoot turn-around shots in the air, they say kobe. these kids were born in 2008/2009, but that's what happens when a polarizing figure solidifies into legend. >> bryant had become a kind of like father of the nba in retirement in a way that i thought was very interesting and a role that he clearly relished like being in the front seats with his daughters at lakers

games and coming and getting a pound from lebron in between plays. like there was a kind of -- the guy was only 41 years old, right?re but because he had come so young had achieved this elder statesman role already. >> he certainly had. and that's one of the things about this that is on top of so many other things that makes this so sad is you think about him and he had been growing intu this role where he had sort of become very different from michael jordan and some of the other players. he was a godfather to some of the new generation. you don't see that closeness that other players -- as kobe had with them. for example, you look at jayson tatum and kyrie irving and all these players going in the off season to work with kobe and there is a connection to him. i think that because the nba is such a relatively young league, you think about these guys. you think about all these years that we would have had kobe bryant in that mix for the next

30, 40 years.t it's an incredibly sad story. >> you know, i feel compelled to note that when we talk about this sort of villain that he could be in public perception both as a player and as a pt person, the turning point for that, the invention of the nickname black mamba, he says himself, is when he was arrestea and accused of rape. those chargers would later be dropped. he issued a statement in which he said we had sexual intercourse and this woman did not consent to it.an it was remarkable and upsetting statement in many ways. that was the moment of the peak infamy in the life of kobe bryant and also he -- he had 17 more years in the league after that or 17 more years in the ag public eye after that. t >> yeah. this statement was made -- it is about 15 years ago now, maybe 17 years now.is and i'm going to credit dave

here who i didn't realize this, but he did -- you could fill me in. he interviewed an activist, men can stop rape and the man that ran that organization credited kobe bryant with writing the best apology from a man he had ever read. it didn't lead to any criminal charges, but he did acknowledge that at least in the victim's eyes there was not consent. and i think we have to allow for growth. and main we don't want our villains to grow. we can do that from the basketball perspective. but if you took any measure of the man and what he became, when we say hard work, i want to point this out because it is true.rk he didn't come into the league as this guy was not going to be zion williamson or lebron james necessarily.no he was the 13th overall pick. >> that's crazy to me he was the 13th overall pick. >> and charlotte said, we can't really use you right now or he '

might have been using that for motivation against charlotte. but a lot of guys work hard. how he thought about working hard included a creativity that very few have. he even defined working hard as working on his writing in the off season or during his off time. not going to clubs, but being a creative person. i know at times as a poet. so he was ready to become an artist, entrepreneur, youth basketball coach in a really exciting way. >> one thing i think about all the time with lebron james as wi watch him who is probably the most famous athlete in the world. kobe bryant was one of the first global folks after michael jordan, global brand icon, players, is just the human struggle of being that young with that much pressure and to grow up the entirety of your post adolescent life in the league, in the public eye, which is something that kobe did

before lebron but if lebron has done it and kevin garnett and others. >> you are hearing other athletes now talk about and tweet about different personal experiences they had with kobe and the way he touched their lives. i myself tweeted about it because after my heart surgery, i ran into him at the verizon center right before we were about to play the lakers and he gave me a hug and said, i've been praying for you since i heard about your surgery. that meant a lot to me. but seeing the different people on social media now pour out and bring up the things about his past or talk about the things you didn't like about him, ng that's the part that's troubling for me. it's been hours. i mean, sometimes it is okay to be human. you know what i mean? give his family a chance to be able to grieve. and, you know, it's just interesting seeing that part. you see other people on social e media that are clowning other people for grieving for somebody

who they didn't know. and i find that very interesting as well. i just posted it right before i came out here that, you know, to those people who are clowning the people, you know, keep that same energy when you have a loved one that's passed away and you ask for, you know, social media to pray for you or pray for your family who they don't know as well. it is interesting watching social media and seeing the different people's reactions. but kobe touched a lot of people's lives. was he perfect? no. but it's okay to be human. allow the family to grieve. it's just been hours. >> dave, the incomprehensible part of this is, of course, the suddenness and of course the loss of his daughter, who he wad traveling with, his second oldest. 13-year-old gianna how he talked about her all the time about this bond they had only the

sport he loved so much and just the impossible to comprehend grief of that family right now. >> yeah. and i think that's something that people should keep well in mind, is that kobe bryant was somebody who was building a b second life for himself. and i know that there are a lot of players in their 20s and 30s, and lebron james is one of these players, by the way, who look to kobe right now as to being a trail blazer, to being a mogul/activist type, like somebody who could actually leverage the power of being an nba player and leverage the incredit money that they're able to make and do something different than be a coach or even be a general manager or, th heck, even being an nba owner. but being a mogul in a different kind of way and a creative, somebody that could have a whole second life, as opposed to, you know, just doing commentary about the game that you once played. so from lebron on people were looking to kobe to blaze that trail. i think that's one of the holes that people with reckoning with

right now, the idea that there was this future that people could see and taste for kobe bryant that now all of a sudden is not there. >> you have written about this. you talked about this very issue on my podcast last week about, you know, no matter how highly paid you are, no matter how celebrated you are as a professional athlete, you are labor. you are not management. there is a boss above you. here is kobe bryant who clearly had huge aspirations to stretch out, to sort of control his own destiny post retirement. >> sure. and he was not just a creative, as dave said, but a creative. he won an oscar. he was doing things with his brain that athletes don't usually get credit for. you could see that there was an enormous potential there. and i think that's -- tom brought up a great point as well. there is a great scope to kobe bryant. you could see he was not limiting himself in terms of what he believed he was capable of.of and also in terms of how much he did touch the culture.

and i think there is that. also when you are thinking abou the splitting of the family and the grieving process of the family, also don't forget the altobelly family as well. you are talking about losing siblings, losing parents, losing everything. i think the hard part about all of this is what makes it difficult to reconcile is this belief that we have that they have it all because they can afford the helicopters and theyc have the money and they have the great life and it's all just very, very fragile for everybody. nd >> i think that's so important. professional athletes are on the receiving end. a lot of emotions from people p get projected on to them. but life is precious and life is short. it is just an unimaginable, unfathomable tragedy what happened today. thank you all so much. we'll be right back.al be right .

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tonight on the eve of the president's lawyers first full day of defense arguments, we have yet more evidence that directly undercuts donald trump's defense in the impeachment trial that comes from john bolton who was one of the central foreign policy figures in the administration until his abrupt departure in september last year. president trump told his national security adviser in august that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into democrats, including the bidens. that is obviously an enormous, enormous deal, probably the single biggest piece of evidence

since the president's call notes released. according to the times, it has been reviewed my several sources. joining me now on the phone is one of the people that broke that explosive story, michael schmidt, washington correspondent from the new york times and an msnbc contributor. i have read this story several times and each sentence is crazier than the last. what have you learned? >> well, the big question here was what did bolton know and what was he going to testify to if he was subpoenaed and had to answer questions before congress? bolton had said he was willing to testify but we never knew what he had, what was behind that door. and what this story does is it gives us a peek at some of that stuff. he's coming in with a book later this year. he to publish it had to give it

to the white house to review it for classified information. that happened several weeks ago. that gave the white house an idea of what he may say. look, as we have seen before that and certainly since then, you know, the white house does not want him to testify. they do not want him to be playing this out publically. as we see tonight, it has pushed democrats even further to call for what they have been saying all along, for him to testify. but it remains to be seen whether that will have any impact on these republicans who have really fallen into line throughout the impeachment trial. >> in terms of the content of the man you scrip as far as you were able to ascertain, bolton apparently had a -- bolton pressed the president a dozen times, i believe, is the line with mike pompeo and esper about releasing that aid and then has a one-on-one meeting with trump in which trump tells him he

doesn't want to release the aid until ukraine does the investigations essentially. >> correct. that's an august meeting that bolton recounts in which he's talking to trump about the aid. it's one of these attempts that bolton made to try and engage the president on the issue. as you pointed out, this was something that mike pompeo and esper were working out as well. it is in that conversation in august of last year that the president says that he wants to continue the freeze until he sees whether the ukrainians are cooperating with these investigations relating to the clintons and the bidens. obviously that, the tie between the aid and the investigations and the fruits of them or the announcements of them, all these different things that get moved into this jumble is the essential question of impeachment, should the president be removed for those conversations and those efforts. >> yes. and one of the chief defenses has been that, you know, with the exception of gordon sondland that none of the testimony is coming from people with direct

access to the president, john bolton's manuscript is in the hands of the white house for security review. i want to read this statement that says several weeks ago the ambassador sent a hard copy of his manuscript for review. the ambassador has not passed that manuscript to anyone else for review, period. what do you make of that statement? >> well, bolton's lawyer, chuck cooper, put out a similar statement tonight. he put out a letter he had sent to the white house on december 30th. and that was a letter that accompanied the manuscript that was saying to the white house, look, we don't think there is classified information in here, but we know that under the typical protocols we have to provide it to you so you can look through it and examine it.

and we hope that you go through and do that in a timely manner. now, that was on december 30th. so that gives you an idea of when the white house learned about these contents and, you know, when they had a better sense of what he was going to testify to. >> wow. michael, incredible reporting. we'll see what it does tomorrow, but it certainly has landed with a bang this evening. thanks so much. coming up, elizabeth warren joins me to respond to this breaking story and what it could mean to the impeachment trial next.

so we learned tonight, thanks to "the new york times," that a draft of his new bach, john bolton wrote that the president explicitly told him that he would not release the nearly $400 million in security aid to ukraine unless ukraine helped manufacture dirt to his political rivals.

remember, back in december john bolton came out and said he is willing to testify in the senate impeachment trial. they will have another chance to vote on calling john bolton and other witnesses after initial arguments wrap up this week. this news comes the day after the president's lawyers briefly reviewed their defense. i'm joined by one of the senators who will be deciding the president's fate. she is also running for president, which she does on the weekends. she joins us from the campaign trail in iowa where just yesterday she won the coveted endorsement of the des moines newspaper. how are you doing tonight in. >> i'm doing great tonight. >> what do you make of this news? it is bizarre in many ways. i'm not quite sure what john bolton is up to, frankly. but in terms of the question before your body, which is whether to call witnesses for this trial, what does this news

do to the trial that you are certainly currently sitting as a juror in? >> so, look, we started out saying this is a trial. the constitution says it is the senate that tries an impeachment case. and that means witnesses and documents. i mean, do you know anybody who thinks you do trials without witnesses? if you have got something to produce. and the republicans were all saying, no, no, no. then on saturday they kind of put out their basic argument, and, man, now bolton has really put it to the republicans because a big part of their argument was, hey, this is all hearsay and supposition and people speculating. there is nobody that has any direct evidence that the president was doing a quid pro quo saying i would only release the aid if we could get ukraine to dig up dirt on my political rival. well, now we know.

john bolton says he wants people to look at him because he's waving his hand pretty aggressively. >> yes. >> saying i have that information. so how are you going to play this one, republicans? you can't say nobody has direct evidence while there is somebody out there saying, i have the direct evidence. sounds to me like we're going to have witnesses. >> i imagine -- do i understand this correctly that after the -- there is two more stages to get to under the organizing resolution of mitch mcconnell before you would have a vote on whether there could be witnesses, which is president's lawyers make their arguments. and then there is like 16 hours of questions from the senators. >> yes. >> and then a vote? is that how this works? >> that's exactly right. and then after everyone has spent all of those hours talking about the case and putting forward the evidence that was produced in the house, then, only then, will there actually be a vote on whether or not to produce the witnesses.

in other words, once the trial has pretty much been argued and they hope it is over, then they will address the question of whether or not there ought to be witnesses. this is -- this is not what a trial is about. look, for people, wherever you are on the political spectrum, what the constitution requires is a trial in the senate. and that means a fair trial in the senate, and that means you bring in the evidence. >> yeah. >> if any president, not just trump, but any president can say, hey, i'm just drawing a circle here and nobody gets to go and testify and no documents are produced, what does it mean then to have accountability for a president? however would a senate be able to have an impeachment trial? so this is the constitution that they're starting to pull apart here. >> you are in iowa tonight. you got the des moines register endorsement. >> yes, i did. >> which is a very big deal in the iowa primary.

you have been using this phrase sort of unfurled a version of it in the last debate when you talked about you and amy klobuchar never having a loss. you have been using this phrase, women win. and i wonder whether you feel the data in your campaign or what you hear from voters says that there is some group of voters out there who like you but who are worried essentially that there is a gender tax that female candidates pay, right? that they -- you know, there is a lot of patriarchy and sexism in america and it hurts women candidates. is that how you are thinking when you talk about this? >> look, people are asking the question. so if they're asking the question and i think the right thing to do is let's just address it head on. let's not try to do it kind of around the fringes. let's not try to do it through proxy. let's just take it straight on and look at the data.

the world changed when donald trump got elected. this is not 2016. when donald trump got elected, what's happened since then is that women candidates have outperformed men candidates in competitive races. and look at 2018. we took back the house. we took back state houses around the country, state legislatures. how? women candidates and women who said i am in this fight all the way. women who came in and helped make this happen. don't get me wrong, lots of good men in it, too, but lots of women who gave this lift. so look at the data. you know. look, i'm the only person who is running who has beaten an incumbent republican any time in the last 30 years and we got a lot of evidence. women can make this happen. so women win. let's keep that in mind. let's level that playing field.

and now let's talk about some of the issues, how we get people excited, how we get them out there, how we pull our party together and how we pull in some republicans. that's how it is we're going to win. >> i want to ask that question. you said how to pull our party together. do you worry? i think sometimes people make too much of the natural conflict that happens in a primary because it is an election. that's what conflict is about. but do you worry about that? is that something that's in the back of your mind that the divisions here are the things that are happening between different candidates or camps will make it harder to unify? >> look, what i care about is we have to win. we have to beat donald trump. whoever our democratic nominee is, i'm all in. i'm going to help make this happen. but the best way for us to win is we got to pull our party together. you know how we best do that? let's not have the same old arguments we've had for a long time. let's look at what's really broken in this country. we've got an america right now

that works great for rich folks. it works great for giant corporations. it works great for lobbyists. it works great for big drug companies and big oil companies that want to drill everywhere. it's working great for them. it is just not working for the rest of america. we need to draw the sharp contrast with donald trump. he is the most -- running the most corrupt administration in history. what i want to do is i want to get there and make that fight over corruption. i want to show how it is that we as democrats are going to be in this fight and we are willing to take on the corruption head-on. that's something our whole party can get behind. wealth tax our whole party, expanding social security our whole party. >> you will be on a flight to the corruption trial. so i'll let you go, though. >> you're exactly right. keep this in mind.

how did he get his ambassadorship? he paid a million dollars to donald trump's inauguration campaign. it is corruption. we need to call it out. that's how i'm going to beat donald trump. >> senator elizabeth warren, democratic candidate for president, thanks for making time tonight. >> you bet. good to see you. the trump defense team is set to begin fir first full day of arguments tomorrow. how it changed the landscape of the impeachment trial after this.

to talk more about the resumption of the impeachment trial, i'm joined by the author of "impeach, the case against donald trump" and the professor of constitutional law at harvard law school and co-author of the book "to end the presidency."

the subject of this interview has changed quite a bit in the last few years. i just want to get your reactions to it. i said earlier in the show, basically since the call notes were released, neil, what do you think about the import of this bolton manuscript? >> it's hugely devastating for the president. so article one of the impeachment against president trump is abuse of power, and the allegation is that he tried to cheat in the 2020 election and pressure the ukrainian government to get dirt on joe biden. and if true and of course we haven't seen the book, but if true corroborate all of that story and say that trump did pressure the ukrainians and held the aid in order to get dirt on biden. the second allegation is -- the second article of impeachment is

obstruction of congress. and, again, here now we have the president, it looks like people in the white house knew these were bolton's views. yet, they went on television as recently as yesterday denying there was anyone with any firsthand knowledge that corroborated this account.

it seems insane to me to be a situation where i guess we don't get enough votes in the senate we'll wait until the book comes out and see if the president di

what he's accused of? >> no, i think that bolton is really trying to signal he wants to testify.bo he said that. now the leaks from the book really underscore why i think he has to testify. there is no serious real argument on the other side. and so i expect the senators at this point to want witnesses and even if they don't, as i'll argue in tomorrow's "new york times," the chief justice can easily subpoena these folks on their own and can't be overruled by the republicans in the senate. this is a chief justice who believes in fairness, ch understands what a trial is. he's never seen a trial without witnesses. nobody has in america. so i think that there are multiple avenue news now for witnesses to come forward, which is obviously the true and right thing to do, as professor tribe just said. >> professor tribe is seems untenable as a political matter, they all think they should hang

together or separately, to keep getting evidence spooling out, all of this is going to come out. adam schiff keeps saying this. do you want to be part of the coverup? >> you know, i'm afraid some of the republicans are actually in a position where they would rather have it come out afterwards. >> yes. >> because if it comes out before they're going to have a hell of a time justifying acquitting. bom i think the chief justice can play a crucial role here. whether or not the senate can't overrule him is a more difficult question. certainly if the president tries to gag john bolton and tries to invoke some phony privilege that doesn't apply, there isn't going to be a beeline to the district court down the street, because the chief justice of the united

states is sitting right behind them and he can make a ruling. and even if a majority of the senators could overrule him, they're going to be under a lot of pressure to pay attention toi somebody like the chief justice of the united states. so i think the whole landscape is dramatically different right now. and we really are going to have an extraordinary week ahead of us. >> briefly, neal, do you think you'll see the white house lawyers tomorrow lean on the, so what if he did, argument? >> yeah, i think they will. i think as lawrence says, there's very little credence to that argument. it falls apart. we can't have presidents cheating in elections particularly with the help of e foreign governments. it's an insane proposition. i expect we'll hear it tomorrow along with a rush to get this over with because these lawyers are so afraid new information is going to come out. they're trying to rush this thing through to stop. >> the clock is ticking in the background.

someone -- bolton is going to be outside with a bullhorn before the week is over. thank you very much. i'm chris hayes. much more coverage coming up next.>>s stick around.

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black mamba. black mamba. ♪ new revelations from john bolton's upcoming book are raising the stakes for president trump's impeachment. democrats are once again calling on the former national security adviser to testify. plus the president's defense team takes a spotlight in the senate impeachment trial. trump's legal team says democrats have failed to make a case against the president. and this morning the world is in shock following the death of five-time nba champion kobe bryant. investigators are looking into what caused the helicopter he was in to crash in los angeles. go