for pete's sake, let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening. i'm chris mathews up in new york. the big news out of iowa moving at the speed of the old pony express is with three votes counted, former south bend mayor buttigieg and sanders vying for the lead. this is how it stands for those who hope to beat president trump before he delivers the state of the union underneath the cloud of impeachment which vote will be cast tomorrow. releasing 62% of precinct data, that's about 3/5 of the votes cast. senator san doctors is ahead in

the raw vote totals from the first stage of the caucus, the initial preference where voters picked their first choice candidate. that's sort of like a primary. you go in, vote, sanders is ahead. sanders is ahead in the raw vote of the second stage of the caucus process. the reallocated preference when voters were able to shift their support to another candidate if their first choice candidate did not receive sufficient support during the first phase. pete buttiegieg, however, leads in the percentage that determines how many national delegates the candidates receive the iowa caucus blames a coding issue in a new app designed to count caucus results. the debacle also raised questions about where the hawkeye state could keep their first in the nation status. politico declared monday night the death of iowa. without anyone being able to prove actual success, by the way, candidates suggest is

supporters being able to claim . i'm joined by nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki. steve -- >> i'm here. >> i'm watching you. i've been watching you all afternoon since 4:00 eastern. and it is a strange situation when we have three victory totals. you can pick the one you like. the first one, tell me if i'm wrong, is like a primary. in other words, people walked in, they voted. that's how they came out, with bernie a bit ahead of buttigieg. people got to reallocate. they skirmished around. some of it illegally, they depth have enough in one group, they poached a few others from other parts of the room and they got their total for viability. and then the third total is the way we used to count this, how many national delegates did you get, and pete buttiegieg wins there. i think we should start with that. why did pete buttiegieg come out

on delegates when he lost two of the three contests? >> yeah, i mean, the shades of the electoral college and the popular vote, let me take you through. there are two things that have put buttigieg in the lead on the state delegate count while he's losing the other two categories. you're talking about first preference versus second allocation. supporters of candidates in the individual precincts. candidates that don't hit 15%, supporters becoming free agents. buttigieg is benefiting disproportionately from that. this is dallas county. a well to do county, richest in the state. des moines overall, buttigieg is cleaning up, 34%. sanders all the way back at 14. take a look on the first preference, buttigieg was leading but he was only at 27. you can see the gains that he posts going through that second allocation. that brings him up to 34. he stays there. you're seeing that play out throughout the state. buttigieg more than any other candidate, certainly more than sanders, is gaining from first

to second. however, we should stress that alone is not the reason that he's leading in the delegates because, look, first preference sanders leads. as you mention, even when you go through that process, still by more than a thousand votes, sanders is leading buttigieg. so the second piece of it is, this is sort of what's the best way to say this? not every precinct is created equal when it comes to state delegates. some of them have disproportionately a large number. what that really means is the college towns in the formula that the iowa democratic party uses, they're kind of penalized when it comes to state equivalents. they don't get as many relative to the turnout, in the rural counties where the turnout tends to be more than the college towns get a little more. here's what i mean. if you call this western iowa, this about 10%, 10 to 11% of the turnout. this is 13 to 14% of the state

delegate equivalent. what do you see here? you see a lot of buttigieg blue. you see blue here. more counties lining up for buttigieg. in places in the state, there is an advantage doing well there versus, a dramatic version of this. johnson county. sanders and warren, iowa city, university of iowa, big college area, so sanders and warren cleaning up here. buttigieg back now. if you use the turnout figures we've seen in the past, this is probably 11% or so of the turnout statewide. >> cutting to the chase, can we project from this 61% to the final numbers? is there anything in the pattern we've watched that would say these are random numbers, therefore a good way to project or what? >> here's what i can show you. the vote yet to come, the bigger the bubble the more precincts there are in the county. that is pope county, des moines. mother load, blackhawk northern university iowa, davenport,

cedar rapids. if you take the total number of precincts that are to report still from counties that pete buttiegieg is currently leading in, there are 253 precincts to come from counties where buttigieg is ahead. from counties where sanders is ahead right now, there are 259 precincts still to come. so there's a little bit more there. sanders versus buttigieg -- >> it looks random, it looks good. >> looks like it's going to be close. >> here's another question. it looks to me based on the believe ious polling you've shown us here on that board that starting with the numbers from 2016, bernie had about half the votes against hillary clinton in the iowa caucuses. he's down now to a quarter of the votes. so he's on his way down in terms of support, whereas buttigieg has come from nowhere. we couldn't even pronounce his name a few months ago. is this a case of a star is

born, the one person fading, the other one new to the game and doing well? >> remember sanders faced competition he didn't face in 2016. elizabeth warren. we're showing you big population centers with college graduates, college town. sanders ran up the score over hillary clinton. second biggest in the state, he beat her by 20 points. he got a big bang for his buck in johnson county. tonight he's barely leading elizabeth warren. there's a possibility warren could catch him in johnson county. we're seeing it throughout the state. up here the vote, this is minnesota, college county as well, buttigieg was able to slip in with 29%. it's in these college counties here, sanders doing well in them. sanders was able to run away with these in 2016. that's part of what is ach going on here. we could say des moines, he's actually leading in polk county.

>> according to nbc, the two vying for numbers and shall able to say by the end of this week, i hope, they won the iowa caucuses is bernie sanders, but in the numbers, bernie sanders, he won it. if it was a primary he would have won. if it's a caucus, which it is, buttigieg is still ahead. >> i washt to say our nbc news decision desk does not need a declaration on that first preference. it is a three-point lead forebernie sanders. it's over 3,000 votes on that first preference. you can see that and make your own judgment about that. yes, this is the closer one. authorities the one where buttigieg has caught sanders. it is 25 state delegate equivalents. you have polk county to come in. >> if we had a normal night and you had to report the news, would you have said buttigieg had won the iowa caucuses?

>> the declaration nbc would have made -- i can tell you we wouldn't have made it. we work waiting to get 100% of state delegates. that was the decision that was made. the other thing was we have more information than we've ever had before. you can make an argument there folks are turning out. who has the most people to vote for them on the first one. that may not have a direct bearing on the delegates in terms of attracting support? that's something for most people to make their own decision about. >> people would wonder who has the most votes. it is that's not the way they do it. they like it complicated. thank you so much. well, our brain, thank you. steve kornacki. i'm joined by surlina maxwell. former congressman elise jordan.

everybody gets their bite at this. i want to start with dan, however. and the question is, is screwing up things going to be a problem for democrats? just screwing them up. >> it's already a problem, as we see. one thing occurs to me along that line, the caucus system is not understood by most people in this country, including a lot of people in iowa. great reporting with your map and everything, but most people, when you talk about these caucuses, you may as well be speaking swahili or high norris. most people don't understand. with the massive screw up about the reporting, this under cuts people's confidence in our whole electoral system. this is the big take away. at a time people are already suspicious about voting machines, can they be manipulated and hacking, now comes on top of this a totally incompetent democratic party in the iowa caucuses. they can't -- the saying used to

be to err is human. foul up you need a computer. now to err is human and mess up you need an app. >> not going to get in an argument about unfairness or systematic racism, there is a simple freaking fact, 25% of the democratic voters are african. what is it in iowa? 3%. >> 4% black and 3% latino. it's just not representative of the democratic electorate. >> we have to get back to pete buttiegieg who responded to the partial iowa results we gave about 3/5 of the vote at a campaign event in new hampshire tonight. here he is, buttigieg. >> they're not complete, but results are in from a majority of precincts and they show our campaign in first place. [ cheers and applause ]

so, we don't know all of the numbers, but we know this much. a campaign that started a year ago with four staff members, no name recognition, no money, just a big idea. a campaign that some said should have no business even making this attempt has taken its place at the front of this race to replace the current president with a better vision for the future. [ cheers and applause ] >> sanders' camp, sanders campaign jeff weaver put out a statement on the partial results saying, we are gratified in the partial data released so far, it's clear in the first and second round, more people voted for bernie than any other candidate in the field. er in a tweet senator elizabeth warren cited her powerful grassroots movement out there, saying we've come out of iowa in the top three.

we are in a strong position heading into new hampshire, nevada, super tuesday. let's go! buttigieg's statement there, very elegant, very careful. it would have been a lot more powerful if it was delivered at midnight. >> that's exactly right. look, a dollar late, a dollar short and a day late. what happened yesterday is like watching an old "i love lucy" rerun. it gets old fast. we are not going to be talking about this in the next week or so. i always thought even when iowa has clarity, it has been -- >> i know who is going to be talking about it the next year. every republican. >> i'm not so sure. >> we'll see. >> we have to put iowa in perspective. it has always been overmagnified. ted cruz won iowa, is not president. huckabee won iowa is not president. >> these are republicans. nine out of 11 democrats who won in iowa went on to win the

nomination. the only two that didn't were neighbors. h harkin from the state of iowa -- >> bill clinton lost iowa, became president. here's my point. >> he didn't run in iowa. let's get it straight, steve. he never ran because harkin got 60% of the vote. it is a great leading indicator since the yrt 70s who was going to be the nominee. that's a fact. >> like in the super bowl you had a lot of game in front of you, we have a lot of politics in front of us. new hampshire biden will run strong in nevada, south carolina, you go to super tuesday. this is a marathon to milwaukee. i will say this. i'm not sure that any candidate is going to come in with the requisite number of delegates they need for a first ballot in milwaukee. that's what this is saying. >> looking from the outside, the democrats -- it's called mishigas.

it's complete chaos. buttigieg is the star, the new star on the block. there's no doubt about it. i couldn't pronounce his name like most of us a year ago. there he is winning in delegates. >> i would not say, though, that it was a total victory for mayor pete just because he didn't get to really -- because of all the chaos, he's not able to basque in the glow, which is what iowa is really all about. bernie sanders is going to go into new hampshire. he's going to be in a great position. then he's going into nevada where he's well positioned. republicans, though, as you pointed out are jubilant about what went down in iowa. a rehash of the obama era website. >> you mispronounce the name nevada. it's not nevauda, it's nevada. let's talk about the unfairness of iowa as a launching pad. you said some tough language.

you said systematic racism, repression -- it is repression because normal people don't go out and vote for three hours on a monday night, stand around until every neighbor that wants to hear they're voting. nobody does that. >> the caucus structure is undemocratic. it doesn't allow for people who are working class, people who work the night shift, people who have small children, the baby-sitter over 18 staying with the kids so parents can go caucus. it's disenfranchising certain voters. the people you are disenfranchising are lower class and often people of color. my point is it's a structural problem within the primary process and the democratic party should look at whether they should change either the order of the states so more diverse states -- >> what do you want? what do you want? >> perhaps doing a regional primary, where it's a couple states voting fiemt. but getting an arc rat snapshot

of what the democratic electorate at large, not just one segment of americans in iowa. and i think that's -- it's tough language, but i think it's language that americans can handle. and it's a reality check for democrats because the base of our party, it's shifting towards more and more people of color impacting outcomes. and we as the establishment -- i'm not part of the establishment, but the democratic establishment and the party leadership need to reflect on what voters were targeting and how we're making it easier for them to access the ballot box. >> you have to go to the first grade to find out what the country is going to be like. there has to be a winner. who won? >> i think bernie sanders -- i think it's a split between bernie sanders because of obviously technical reasons. >> who won? >> i think buttigieg won in the sense he came from way back.

he's the new star. >> i agree. he made a decision based on the chaos to double his -- he saw instability. he saw a field that's not crystallized. he expanded his staff to 2000. >> officials are highly paid in california. bloomberg, not some gimmick, he knows how to communicate numbers. giechlt i've got an app for that, i know how to put together an instruction program. what's the matter with these people? >> it's the exact opposite about what his career was about and what he did when he was mayor of new york. i felt the soda ban was a little fascist at first. he did a lot of great things. i miss bloomberg being mayor of new york city. i would argue, though, that biden benefited the most from last night because his poor performance is covered up. it got missed in all this.

he was never going to do well, so he dodged a big bullet of headlines about how badly he fared. >> he was the branch that fell in the forest. >> he got to be dad coming out early saying this process is screwed up. >> by the end of the week he'll come in fourth. my friends and guests are sticking with us tonight. coming up on to new hampshire after the uncertain results in iowa, will we get some clarity? we didn't get a crackle last night. we might get some clarity. let's go on to the next contest, who has the most in stake in new hampshire. who might be forced out of the race before we get to super tuesday. facing a final vote of impeachment tomorrow, president trump gets ready to deliver his state of the union later tonight. has he been chastened as some republican senators say, or will he be emboldened by his escape? >> he has done it before. he will do it again. what are the odds if left in office that he will continue trying to cheat? i will tell you, 100%.

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senator bernie sanders is speaking right now in new hampshire. let's catch the act. >> so tomorrow, tomorrow the votes may not be there to impeach trump, but i am absolutely confident that in november, the votes will be there to defeat trump. [ cheers and applause ] and with your help next tuesday, we begin and continue the process of winning here in new hampshire, going on to nevada, going on to south carolina,

going on to california, to win those states, become the democratic nominee, and have the privilege together of defeating the most dangerous president in the -- [ cheers and applause ] and i will tell you why we are going to defeat trump. we're going to defeat trump because trump believes that his political future lies in dividing the american people up based on the color of our skin or where we were born where our religion, or our sexual orientation or even our agenda. that's what he believes. well, we got bad news for him because that is not what the american people believe. [ cheers and applause ]

and what his campaign is about and what our administration will be about is bringing our people together. [ cheers and applause ] black, black and white and latino, native american and asian american, gay and straight, we're going to come together around an agenda -- [ cheers and applause ] around an agenda that works for all of us, not just billionaires and wealthy campaign contributors. >> that's, of course, bernie sanders up in new hampshire right now starting to go full tilt. as we await the results from the iowa caucuses, the democratic candidates have set their sights on that contest up there. they're in new hampshire which holds its primary a week from today. a boston globe suffolk university poll shows senator bernie sanders leading the pack at 24.

6 points ahead of former vice-president joe biden at 18, followed by senator elizabeth warren at 18 former mayor pete buttigieg is at 11. another poll sent in from college, senator tied at first, buttigieg at 14. this finds warren trailing in fifth place after klobuchar. dan maxwell, elise jordan, i want to start in the same direction. it seems to me bernie is strong up there, he's been much stronger than elizabeth warren. he's being challenged by buttigieg. even where the poll was in the field before yesterday. this wasn't just iowa. >> this is an interesting dynamic that's unfolding. bernie sanders' top line argument for why he should be the nominee of the democratic party is that he's trying to lead a political revolution to change our institutions and that there is going to be -- there

are voters who don't normally vote, those sporadic voters, one in ten elections who don't show up who will show up for bernie sanders. i don't know that that's reflected in the numbers we have so far, and the caveat is we only have 62% of iowa right now. you don't see that wave of support coming for bernie sanders. it wasn't a blowout. he was close in iowa last time. say it again? >> is he intense but not broad? >> i think, yes, there is a core of support that is always going to be with bernie sanders. but i think in order to win the nomination, which he did come up short because he got to south carolina. that it was essentially, you know, his stopping point in the sense that black and brown voters, they are not as interested and they're not as passionate about bernie sanders. however, that's a generational split. younger millennials of kohl early back bernie sanders. he has strong support.

it's people my parents' age he's having trouble with and he's going to have to fix that. >> erasing college debt, that's attractive to people like my family. there are numerous examples of candidates from both parties that launched in iowa and still won in new hampshire. this is the sling shot. the person loses out west and comes in. reagan, dukakis, hillary clinton 2016. both bernie sanders and donald trump came back and won -- i don't know why they keep putting trump in this. it didn't matter in 1992. it was all owned by art harkin. stop doing that. bill clinton was smart to win new hampshire. he declared himself the comeback kid, so he won. let me ask you about bernie sanders. i keep a broad back in my brain. i was working for a senator. i went down to work in miami,

let's see, 1972. there i saw a candidate of the left, didn't call themselves progressives. george mcgovern. people were ecstatic about him. maybe not as ecstatic as bernie. he was the nominee and everybody was cheering like mad. i don't go by how many cheering. i go by how many people were there. dan, your thoughts? >> that's a good analogy. it's the democrats' nightmare of 1972. one reason it's a live nightmare for democrats is bernie sanders is going to be around for a long time in this race because he has -- he's organized better than anybody in every single state. he is the only candidate who up to and including now has a very large group of what i'll call true believers in the sense of the late erik hoffer talked about true believers. people who metaphorically are

willing to fall on hand grenades for him. he's going to be in this race a long time when others have dropped aside. i do agree, among his biggest problems are, number one, that trump and the republicans will beat him over the head being a socialist. they will tie him to cuba, to nicaragua, to moscow. secondly, he has never been able to strike a really strong bobd with americans of color, particularly with african americans. south carolina may yet be the stopper for sanders. but i come back to he's going to be in the race a long time. and no other candidate can you say they're assured of staying in the race a long time. somebody may. i do also think what's happened in iowa and what happens in new hampshire gives thought that

bloomberg is beginning to look better and better to step in and be the alternative to sanders. >> good thought. bernie is a fighter. he doesn't look like he's going to quit and give his marbles to somebody else. >> no incentive to quit. there isn't a clearly established delegate -- >> if somebody has 45 or 42%. it's not much. do they buckle, can it be someone -- >> they could go with chris mathews if they want. whoever they want. somebody they believe can beat trump. not you, though. >> that would really get them riled up. >> i'm just teasing. of course, they'll all accept the nomination against trump. >> it's going to be a long slog. i would bet it's going to come

down to the four in milwaukee. i am curious to see going forward if mayor pete, if this is more than just a beginner's luck. he was in, you know, from indiana, midwesterner, managed to capitalize on iowa, up being such an odd caucus so he was able to catapult to this level. is this just a bump or is this going to be really something, is mayor pete going to benefit from biden not performing at the level he's polling at nationally. >> i think he has the most to lose in new hampshire, mayor pete. all the pressure is on him. >> it hurt elizabeth warren for all the attention as the front runner, the fiscal numbers add up or don't. she went back and said i'll do medicare for all in the third year, it dissolutioned people. hurt the dynamics of politics.

thank you. still ahead because these -- this is my horse whisperer. tonight donald trump will become only the second u.s. president to deliver the state of the union address while under impeachment. will he claim victory ahead of the acquittal on wednesday? going forward, is there anything protecting the country from his worst impulses? or will he become chastened as senator collins said, he's been chastened. he'll be nicer now. boy, is she hopeful. you're watching "hardball." i'm your 70lb st. bernard puppy, and my lack of impulse control, is about to become your problem. ahh no, come on. i saw you eating poop earlier. hey! my focus is on the road, and that's saving me cash with drivewise. who's the dummy now? whoof! whoof! so get allstate where good drivers save 40% for avoiding mayhem, like me.

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welcome back to "hardball." on the eve of his expected acquittal by the republican-led senate tomorrow, president trump is set to deliver his third state of the union address tonight in the very chamber where he was impeached less than two months ago. as "the washington post" reports, it is an open question whether trump will use the address to complain about his impeachment. some republican lawmakers, according to the post, have urged the president not to do any complaining. if his twitter feed is any indication, president trump made reference to chaos in the iowa democratic caucus as a way to score political points. above all else, he's certain to tout the strength of the u.s. economy. obviously trump's speech comes as a new poll from gallop finds

63%, two-thirds of americans approve of his handling of the economy. the same poll found for the first time of trump's presidency his overall approval rating has reached 49%. i said it was going to go up because last week, i don't know exactly why, but there is something about that impeachment process that riled up his people. and despite his impeachment, that's a personal best for this president who has investor had the approval of thor majority of americans in the gallop. the president's speech tonight is a preview of the case he intends to make for reelection. tomorrow's vote in the senate is stoking new fears trump's acquittal might embolden the president to engage in more bad behavior. history shows he gets away in misconduct engages in more of it. you're watching "hardball." i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual! we customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need!

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he has done it before. he will do it again. what are the odds, if left in office, that he will continue trying to cheat? i will tell you, 100%.

not five, not ten, or even 50, but 100%. if you have found him guilty and you do not remove him from office, he will continue trying to cheat in the election until he succeeds. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was lead house manager adam schiff's warning to the u.s. senate yesterday as the president's impeachment trial comes to an abrupt end tomorrow. "the new york times" points out that with his acquittal assured, trump emerges from the biggest test of his presidency emboldened. that's scary. i'm joined now by republican strategist steve schmidt, jeh johnson is the former secretary of homeland security, of course, under president obama. peggy noonan, i read it religiously. what do you think is the bet how trump will respond to his acquittal tomorrow? >> how do you mean respond? do you mean in a sense of trump

unleashed? >> that or better. >> i think susan collins said today, i think, that she believes the president will have learned a certain lesson from this and it might moderate his behavior. i think that's always possible, but i would say looking at the past three years it is sort of unlikely. here's one of the things i think. the president is on a run of real good fortunate. he's got acquittal coming tomorrow. he's got gallop where he's nearing 50%. he's got various kinds of economic good news. there's a third element here that i'm forgetting that is also good news. but about the president has steady good news, he has a way of starting trouble. so i just sense more trouble is coming. >> like a rock star. you get too high, things are going too great, you have to blow it. >> like someone who likes trouble. >> what do you think? you think he'll be like an

8-year-old kid who touches the stove and never does it again? >> no. >> i'm trying here. >> you have a track record of three years. >> he's not educable. >>.'bipartisan, big victory, and he's off to the races. >> he's like an aggressor nation grabs one country, then grabs a bigger one. >> well, chuck todd on "meet the press" had a great question to lamar alexander. when has this president ever been chastened by anything? i think that's exactly right. >> he seems to be -- i'm going to get to this in my close tonight. he does seem to be a guy who doesn't like the good guys in the world. he wants to be in the gang. look at the guys he's hung around with. he doesn't like macron or justin trudeau, chancellor of germany. they're all too regular for him. he likes the bad guys.

>> he has a fetish for autocrats and it's frightening. f.d.r. who conceived of the world we live in, what it would be like after the second world war was won, he would frequently have him in the white house. he said to mackenzie kaine as he imagined the liberal order we lived under, architect built by f.d.r. -- he said his ambition was it would endure forever, just so long as every person who was alive on the day the war was won was still alive, and we're coming to the end of those long life-spans. and so we have an american president who has detached our liberal global values from the world, zero sum, might makes right, fetish eyeses the putins and the dictators. >> throw in netanyahu. >> makes the world a more

dangerous place. and we should not, as we think about the president coming into the chamber, 49% approval level, 63% approve al of how he's handling the economy, acquitted in the united states senate, he walks in there after this debacle in iowa like a calossus who has redefined the rule book. >> how many cheap shots will he take? maybe not a cheap shot, but good politics against the democrats for screwing up in iowa? >> i think the president's staff would probably preferred that he stay above it. and i think a part of him actually knows he 0 the to stay above it. but would he take a few, perhaps what he would see as teasing shots? yeah, i think that's possible. i'm wondering, so there's the iowa question. i'm also wondering if he is going to refer to what has been happening in the congress of the united states for the past two

months. >> impeachment, will he bring that up, jay? >> i'm going to bet it's not loaded in the teleprompter. put it that way. >> but? that doesn't say anything. >> he'll go off script. >> punch in the gut. a vote to acquit the president telling cbs news she thinks the president has learned his lesson. >> are you confident that the president won't seek foreign assistance again? >> i believe that the president has learned from this case. >> what do you believe the president has learned? >> the president has been impeached. that's a pretty big lesson. >> but the president says he does nothing wrong. why do you think he learned something? >> he was impeached and there has been criticism by both republican and democratic senators of his call. i believe that he will be much more cautious in the future.

>> well, senator collins' remarks echo that of other republican senators who says trump has been chastened. >> if a call like that gets you an impeachment, i would think you would think twice before he did it again. hopefully he'll look at this and say, okay, that was a mistake, i shouldn't have done that. shouldn't have done it that way. >> i think he knows now that if he is trying to do certain things, whether it's ferreting out corruption there in afghanistan, whatever it is, he needs to go through the proper channels. >> the problem with is that, steve and everybody here, we know what he did after he beat the rap with the mueller report. the next day, next morning he called up president zelensky asking him to do his dirty work, a day and a half later. >> it's astonishing. when i see senator collins do is that, i wish she was my mom when i was a teenager. it's just astonishing. no, i think the one thing is clear, he doesn't seem to be

very intro speculative. doesn't seem to be very focused on learning lessons, how to act the proper way, to meet the demands of the dignity of the office. you know, i think he's going to be emboldened. the lesson here is i can do whatever i want. what's essentially been eradicated in this process is the idea of misconduct. if this isn't misconduct, what conceivably is? >> the moderate rule was punch the other guy below the belt. second, while he's holding onto his pain, talk about the future of pennsylvania. so they see two images when they go in to vote. one guy beaten up, very alive, the other guy future oriented. why doesn't trump say i've done the bad stuff, punched him below the belt, why doesn't he do

that? >> because he can't. >> been waiting for that four years. >> can i throw out the idea with the republican senators? i think the stand they are taking on impeachment is, is certainly defensible. we have an election comingmonth. we understand that logic. you can agree or disagree. they are making a mistake on censure. censure is an important thing. we haven't censured a president in 200 years. they could register if they are serious that he did things wrong. >> what would that matter -- who would that matter to? >> well, it won't matter to trump. i think it would matter to the public record. i think it would matter to history. i just think it would be a benefit on its own and it would have its own consistent logic with the increasing republican position that he is guilty, but it doesn't rise to the level. >> i think a person was shamed like even joe mccarthy destroyed the guy.

i'm not sure this guy has any shame at all. i assume mccarthy had shame, because he drank himself to death. >> it matters to republican senators who have to face the electorate in swing states and say, this is what we did. >> okay, then why don't they do it? i don't get the logic of not doing it. >> i think they have the get the permission of mitch mcconnell. >> why wouldn't he give it. forgive me. >> because he gets away with everything. >> because -- because mitch is bugs bunny? >> everybody thinks he's helmer fudd, he's bugs bunny. >> we're at a place that the founders could never have imaged, which is the willful subordination by one co-equal branch of government under another. you've seen the capitulation of power by the congressional majority on the republican side, to the president. they are agents of the administration. they're not a co-equal branch of government anymore. >> anyway, thank you, steve schmidt. thank you, jay johnson. we're out of town.

i said we're out of town, we're out of time. peggy noonan. thank you. i'm going to let my powder no longer dry after i get to say what i have to say about the speech tonight and what he is as a president. my thoughts on the other side and how he's failing our country next. you're watching "hardball." lingy next you're watching "hardball. i thought i had my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis under control. turns out, it was controlling me. seemed like my symptoms were taking over our time together. i knew i needed to talk to my doctor. think he'll make it? that's when i learned humira can help get and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b,

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now, president trump will deliver his third state of the