physically, from their positions in the government. we're going to get to that trump nastiness in a bit. here in new hampshire, with just four days to go until the primary, we've got a duel on our hands. our brand new nbc news poll, out tonight, shows bernie sanders and pete buttigieg fighting it out at the front of the pack. the nbc news/marist poll taken after monday's iowa caucuses show sanders leading 25% up three points since last month. pete buttigieg is in second place and within the margin of error at 21%, he's at four points. elizabeth warren is next at 14%, up 1% from last month. followed by joe biden at 13, down two points since january. so you get the picture. senator amy klobuchar and the other candidates are in single digits. the new poll caps off a turbulent week here -- week here which began with monday's iowa caucuses fiasco that led to both buttigieg and sanders, both of these guys, claiming victory.

and the numbers released by the iowa democratic party, buttigieg has a razor-thin lead in the state's delegate count, typically used to determine a winner. while sanders won the raw popular vote. the latest "boston globe"/suffolk university tracking poll. released overnight, it shows sanders and buttigieg roughly tied at 24 to 23%. with buttigieg jumping 12 points since monday. meanwhile, joe biden has dropped seven points. tonight's seven candidates will spar on stage here in manchester in the final debate before new hampshire voters head to the polls tuesday. in an event i witnessed here in manchester early today, senator sanders gave what i think is a glimpse of what we might see tonight. >> pete buttigieg has most exclusive billion donors of any democrat. that's -- that was from "forbes." the hill. pete buttigieg tops billionaire donor list. fortune, pete buttigieg takes

lead as big business candidate in 2020 field. "washington post," pete buttigieg lures even closer look from wall street donors following strong iowa caucus performance. i like pete buttigieg. nice guy. but we are in a moment where billionaires control not only our economy but our political -- >> i'm joined right now by campaign manager for bernie sanders. faz, you know, i think it was the great press secretary for bobby kennedy. in washington, ignore everything said after the word but. your candidate has called pete buttigieg the candidate of billionaires. he says he is the leader in getting money from the billionaires. and then he said quoting woody guthrie, what side are you on? the theme this morning was about. what side are you on? and he put -- is he putting

himself on one side and pete buttigieg on the other? explain. >> for sure. you -- you and i were both there this morning, chris matthews. and we saw the case that bernie sanders made. the choice is clear for voters. do you want a candidate who fights for the working class? in pete buttigieg, you have somebody who's received donations from over 40 billionaires to cow tows to big healthcare companies and drug companies and why does that matter? because at the end of the day, he fights for policies that reward those companies. he's not going to take them on. at one point in time, he used to be for medicare for all. he's since backed away from t t that. bernie sanders clear flag planted in the sand. has been where he's always been. saying i will fight for medicare for all when i am in the oval office. >> has he been bought? he's in the tank. is that what you're saying? he's in the tank? rather than use chinese words, let's use american words. is he in the tank? >> well, chris, you and i both

know that the political system is corrupt. it's rigged. billionaires have a lot of influence over it. big money has influence over it. it's no surprise to any of the people watching this show. and the question is are you willing to take them on? and if so, how? tell me how you're going to take them on. one way we know you aren't going to take them on is when you take their money. when you take their super pac money and sit in close door rooms and tell them, yeah, you can have special access to me. that's not what bernie sanders does. it's not what he's ever done. so if you are looking for somebody who has the credibility to go up against donald trump who says he's going to go fight for the working class, who sold you out, who betrayed you. now, i'm somebody you can believe in and that's bernie sanders. >> people want to vote for pete for all kinds of reasons. are they corrupt? >> no, not at all. i think there's -- there's a lot of things that people take into consideration about when and why they vote for certain candidates. and our job, chris, and you appreciate this as a campaign needs to make the choices clear, from our perspective, of why one

person is a better choice than another. and i understand voters will take a lot of different issues into consideration. >> no, i know how this works. i know -- i know a congressman who would tell me when he -- when he went in the committee -- subcommittee markups, he could tell who in the room was in the tank with some special interest. he could tell. are you saying to me that you predict, or your candidate does, that pete buttigieg will be in the tank if he's president? >> he always -- he already has been. he already has been. that's -- that's the point. i mean, let's not sugarcoat it. he already has been sitting in those rooms talking to those people receiving their moneys. >> okay. last question. faiz, look, i have been -- let me just tell you. this are you willing to say tonight why your candidate has all of a sudden gone after pete buttigieg when pete buttigieg now threatens him winning in new hampshire? and you didn't do it before. what's new, fuspussycat as i li to say. why are you all of a sudden

attacking now? could it be that you're even in the polls? >> yes. yes. it's a tight race and it's our job to make it -- >> i have found an honest man. i have found an honest man in politics, faiz. you have just admitted the truth. the reason you are trashing this guy is he catching up to you. thank you. >> clear choices. clear differences. >> well said. they are definitely different. i watched both in the last two days. they are very different. joining me now is sullivan new hampshire co-chair of the pete buttigieg campaign. maura, i saw you yesterday with the service people. how do you respond to that attack from -- from bernie sanders against buttigieg saying he's basically in the -- in the corruption business? he's part of the problem. he's on the wrong side of the working people. that's what he said today. >> yeah. well, first of all, chris, it's great to be here and there's just so much excitement on the ground. and you saw it yesterday at the town hall. where we had veterans from all around our state. veterans of all eras who were there to hear pete's message of

unity. and that's what he is going to do. he's got an agenda that is inspiring progressives, moderates, independents, and even future former republicans as you have heard him say. and there's just, you know, there's just no denying what's happening here. you know, the -- the results in iowa are exciting. but what's happening on the ground here is really a movement. and it's just -- it's been an electrifying few days and really exciting to be a part of. >> okay. you know, one thing i've learned in politics, we learned it from the swift voting of john kerry, the trash they threw at john mccain, if you don't respond, you don't -- if you don't challenge a threat, this guy just came on, the campaign manager for senator sanders. said your candidate, pete buttigieg, is not only is corrupt. he's owned by the -- he's in the tank with the big corporations. he's corrupt! that's what they just said. do you have a response? will you have a response at your candidate's opportunity tonight in the debate?

>> yeah. absolutely, chris. let me just be very clear. pete is a veteran. he's a fellow veteran. he served our country with honor, with courage, with commitment. he raised his right hand and swore an oath to something greater than himself, the constitution of the united states. pete put his life on the line for our country. and i got to tell you as i look around at all the candidates and think about who i trust to be in the situation room, pete has the judgment, he's got the experience, and he's got the temperament to be our next commander in chief. >> and you're not going to respond to the charge of being corrupt by your -- the guy you're about to pass, perhaps, in the polls. he's getting a little worried, apparently. his campaign manager just said the reason they are taking shots at your candidate is your candidate's catching up to him. no response from you, is that the campaign position? no response? >> no. chris, let me be clear. that's absolutely false. you know, pete buttigieg is a

great american. and let me remind you and all of our viewers, he is part of the 1% of our country who has served our country. put his life on the line for our country. and to suggest anything otherwise is just simply not true. >> thank you so much. by the way, i like your appearance yesterday with all the service people. it was great. it was nonpartisan. it was uplifting. thank you so much, maura sullivan with the buttigieg campaign. former vice president joe biden was not in manchester yesterday in the wake of a fourth place finish in iowa. he called a gut punch to him. "the washington post" reports that biden gathered with his top advisors at his home in delaware seeking a, quote, reset, close quote. well, today in a staff shakeup, elevated a senior aide ahead of tuesday's primary. with me now symone sanders, senior advisor to the biden campaign. this challenging time for you folks and i am just wondering what does this shakeup mean? is it cosmetic?

is there a new campaign leader? >> thank you for having me today, chris. look, i don't want folks to read too much into what they've seen in the news today. the reality is that vice president biden came out of iowa, came here to new hampshire, and he told the people of new hampshire and folks across america that he was ready to fight. and he's been knocked down before. this is the first time. this won't be the last. and he is ready to fight for this nomination and what he believes in. so our campaign has made some additions, some expanded roles to ensure that we are putting together the best operation not just here in new hampshire but nevada, south carolina, and super-tuesday. we intend to compete in this nomination, chris, and we think we've got a great shot. we think vice president biden will be the democratic candidate and the next president of the united states of america. >> i think changes are in the works. the fact in the first time ever, a whole year of run-up, for the first time in over a year, well more than a year, your candidate, joe biden, has agreed

to do a sunday interview show. why now, after all these months of refusing to do those programs? and i know everybody's been after them and they will be -- i'll be -- i've been after him for a year, too. everybody's been after him. he's finally agreed to do an interview program on sunday. why has he changed his strategy now? >> well, chris, as i noted at the beginning of my comments, we're ready to fight for this nomination. and so we -- vice president biden has been a fighter. and, look, we feel good about our operation here in new hampshire. i do believe that our sunday show interview will be out on the campaign trail with us tomorrow. here in new hampshire. so, look, i just don't think folks should read too much into this. i know the media wants to write our campaign off. but the reality is -- >> no. no. i want joe biden on my show. what, are you crazy? are you crazy? i want him on the show. i want him on the show. i want a piece of the guy. i've always waned ted to interv him. you've been hiding from us.

>> chris. >> go ahead. >> chris. oh, chris. now, i take offense to that. let me tell you why. we ever really prioritized local media in this campaign. i know, chris, lots of reporters and lots of correspondents across this country would love joe biden on their program. but the reality is that we have prioritized local interviews everywhere vice president biden goes. he does local print, local radio, local television and we know folks are watching. we also know folks are watching your show on msnbc so we are going to get around to all of y'all. but we have made it a priority to make sure we are speaking directly to the voters, to their local media. that's what, frankly, we are also going to continue to do. local media's been very important to us. we're excited to be here in new hampshire. we know it's going to be a fight here. but we are looking forward -- forward to tuesday. >> okay. symone, i'd like to have one hardball they'd like to hear from. they have known him for years. they want to talk to him. we want to talk to him. but thank you. >> request it right here on live

air. >> let me tell you my request has been in. you can talk to tj. you can talk to kate beddingfield. you can talk to everybody. i keep asking. please, release joe biden. unleash him. thank you for joining me on "hardball" tonight. >> he has been unleashed. look forward to seeing you tonight on the debate stage. >> okay. good luck. by the way, we have a program ready to see him. thank you symone. >> it's a purge. donald trump today retaliated against two of the national security officials who testified in the impeachment trial against him. trump promised payback. well, apparently, it's begun. you pay for telling the truth and my colleagues joy reid and chris hayes will join me a little later. got much more to get to here in manchester, new hampshire. here we are. such a beautiful place. there it is. stay with us. lace there it is. stay with us give me your hand! i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual!

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welcome back to "hardball." two days after being acquitted in his impeachment trial, president trump is already getting his vengeance. in the last hours, news broke that gordon sondland, ambassador to the european union, a prominent witness in the impeachment inquiry, has been fired. in a statement, sondland writes, i was advised today that the

president intends to recall me effective immediately as the united states ambassador to the european union. it comes just hours after lieutenant colonel alexander vindman was escorted from the white house. physically removed from his position as an aide on the national security council. vindman, a decorated combat veteran, was one of many administration officials to testify during the impeachment proceedings. >> i was concerned by the call. what i heard was inappropriate. and i reported my concerns to mr. eisenberg. it is improper for the president of the united states to demand a foreign government investigate a u.s. citizen and a political opponent. >> the president brought up vindman, personally, during his white house impeachment remarks yesterday. >> fortunately, for all of us here today and for our country, we had transcripts. we had transcribers. professional transcribers. then they said, oh, well, maybe the transcription is -- is not correct.

but lieutenant colonel vindman and his twin brother, right, we had some people that really amazing -- >> well, actually, you know, i got to stop here. the president's made fun of physical handicaps. he's made fun of people who aren't tall enough for him. now, he's making fun of people's perhaps a trace of a foreign accent. isn't that really clever? vindman's attorney released a statement saying, in part, there is no question in the mind of any american why this man's job is over. why this country now has one less soldier serving in the white house. lieutenant colonel vindman was asked to leave for telling the truth. his honor, his commitment to right, frightened this powerful person. people familiar with the president's decision tell "the washington post" that trump is eager to make a symbol of vindman soon after the senate acquitted him of the impeachment charges. a source says that vindman's twin brother, who was an attorney at the national security council, was also removed from the nsc. for more, i am joined by howard

fineman, nbc contributor bena, and john heilemann, co-host of show time's the circus and msnbc national affairs analyst. all three of you, i want you to get your thoughts. first of all, bena, this thing. throwing this guy out the door. escorting him like -- like he was stealing money from the cash register or something. treating him like he's really a bad news character. >> and his brother, the nsc lawyer. and i think what you are seeing is the president doesn't feel like an acquittal is enough. and i think it says something about what senator mitt romney did, which is to say he pierced through the sort of myth that the white house was casting about this impeachment trial. that it was just a partisan witch hunt. and the fact that mitch -- mitt romney came out and voted for one of the articles of impeachment to convict, i think caused a reaction in the white house. and what they are doing is they're showing people that speaking out, even under oath, even telling the truth, is something that's punishable behavior in this white house.

>> he's trying to expunge. he wants to expunge everything. >> no, no, no, he doesn't want to expunge them until he makes a spectacle of them. >> okay. >> this is roman coliseum stuff. okay. donald trump is coming up here on monday to have a huge rally in the arena across the street from here. >> okay. >> and he is trying to steal the attention away from everybody else for the democratic thing. i wouldn't be surprised if he could get away with it, he'd bring vindman and his brother up here to parade them through the southern new hampshire. >> like conquered barbarians. >> yeah. because it doesn't prove his point about his power unless he humiliates other people. and by the way, i talked to one white house person yesterday, who said you're going to see a long line of stuff. in other words, they're going to take every one of these people and make a spectacle of all of them as he gets rid of them to show that he is not only vindicated but further empowered. >> anyway, sondland and vindman's removal comes a day

after the president raged against democrats and others he sees as his political enemies. here's the president from earlier today. >> press secretary said -- >> well, you'll see. you'll see what happens. >> we'll see what happens. john heilemann, you were the last one to comment on this. is this the spectacle? is this the roman coliseum where he wants to torture before killing, if you will? >> sure. but i -- i -- i -- the political analysis and the sim bymbiotics it are interesting but it's also against the law. it's illegal to -- to practice retribution, to mete out retribution. so what it shows me apart from all the other things, the other panelists are right. he's trying to send a message.

th this is mafia territory as usual. he looks at the vindmans and he says he's a rat and says i'm going to punish the rat not just because of the spectacle but also to send a message to other rats because the president knows he's done a lot of bad things. and he wants to make sure everyone that might come forward in the future recognizes that he will force them to pay a price. but i do -- but i do wallaalso point out that a president who's just been acquitted of two counts of impeachable offenses just like in the last go around. the moment that the mueller thing was over, he went and did something that was impeachable. just now, the impeachment is over, and he's doing another thing that is, again, an illegal act. the president cannot stop himself, chris, from not just behaving the way he behaves but from breaking laws left and right. he is a lawless president. >> well, sounding like a vengeful count of mar-a-lago, trump made clear he won't let go of his desire for retribution anytime soon. "the washington post" reports that in this year's election,

quote, advisors to the president said trump is already thinking about a scorched earth, nine-month campaign against the democrats. let's talk about what's happening up here -- up here in new hampshire. and it looks to me like according to all the polls, including the globe's poll, it looks like a two-person race right now. >> i had esay yes and i'd say the big news from our poll, particularly with suffolk university as well of course is that pete buttigieg has been inching upwards since iowa. and i think what's evidence the fact that iowa, even with the debacle that happened with the results reporting, still is having an effect. still able to catapult certain kinds of candidates. i am happy to talk about why i think that's a bit of a distortion of our electoral politics. for one, i think iowa and new hampshire both play an outsized role that they really shouldn't be playing in shaping our presidential field. but for the time being, yeah, we are down to a two person race. >> the assault has already begun on his enemies. mini mike he calls them. makes fun of the stature of the former mayor of new york.

he makes fun of their accents now. everything is fair game. you're a democrat. even bernie has been through a lot of fights. what are you facing with trump? >> well, i think -- i think that's what the voters here that i have talked to and that i've seen at events are asking the themselves? who do they have that he is going to get in with this guy and do the combat? even with the buttigieg thing, we were both at yesterday, i had some of these people tell me, you know, i sort of like pete. i think i'm going to vote for him because older people don't want to vote for bernie. but one guy said to me, wouldn't it be great if mike bloomberg is up against donald trump, and donald trump calls him little mike or mini mike? and mike bloomberg says, well, let's compare sizes, mr. president. mine is 60 times bigger than yours. >> oh you're talking loot.

>> no, i'm talking 60 billion. so that, in the reasoning of new hampshire voters, one of the thi things they are thinking about down the road. by the way, bloomberg's advertised enough up here. they are just desperately looking for whoever it is who can survive in the ring. >> let me ask john heilemann. john, who has the fortitude, to use that word, to stand face to face with trump when he starts purging people all around him? >> well, i think, chris, it's a little -- in a weird way, it's a little too early in this campaign to tell. we have had a very gentle democratic primary so far. what has passed for negative campaigning in this race has been minimal to this point. we are finally starting to see a little bit of gloves being taken off. democratic voters that i talk to are looking for is a lot of what howard is talking about but that's what the next few months is going to be about. the race is going to get down and dirty. there is going to be more conflict in this race and i think part of the question voters are asking is who can throw a punch? and who can take a punch?

and right now, that's one thing that hasn't been tested. policy's been tested up to wazoo. but what hasn't been tested so far is that very question and i think we are finally about to get there. maybe starting tonight on this debate stage in a real way. >> yeah. i think -- i think tonight we're going to see a big fight with bernie going after buttigieg. and also, joe biden trying to punch his way back into this fight. thank you howard fineman, thank you bena -- i'm sorry, bena -- i worked on this. it's not a hard name. i just didn't do it right. thank you, john heilemann. up next, much more on trump's vengeance tour and the stakes for 2020. my colleagues joy reid and chris hayes join me next here in manchester. you're watching "hardball." "har. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one.

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welcome back to "hardball" live from new hampshire in manchester itself. as donald trump begins the campaign of payback he promised after his impeachment acquittal, democrats are battling for the chance to take him on. the stakes couldn't be higher. joining me now are two expert colleagues of mine. joy reid, host of a.m. joy. and chris hayes host of "all in with chris hayes." thank you. let's go with a pattern of we

are students unfortunately of this president. and we watch him like a bull fighter watches a bull. we notice one thing about him. he gets emboldened. when he beats the judge, when he skips town, when he escapes justice, which he did this week, he becomes the worst. >> yeah. i mean, susan collins, who came out and said, well, you know, i think being impeached taught him a lesson. >> ha! can i make one of my classic laughs? >> you can. i'll do it with you. ha. has she learned anything? has she met donald trump? to put it in showbiz terms, he's joffrey baratheon. >> tell me who that guy is. >> he was the teenaged king in westeros in the "game of thrones." and he got worse and worse and worse the more he was enabled by his family the lannisters. the more sadistic he got. the more cruel he got. exactly. >> so power tends to corrupt. absolute power corrupts absolutely. >> and republicans gave it to him. let's not forget they have given

him permission to act as a monarch and they should not be surprised when he acts as a monarch. >> like a kid, he is gate ettint of hand. >> the thing i keep thinking about is he could have done this during the trial. the president has power to recall you as ambassador, the president has the power to fire the people in the nsc. but what it shows to me is like there is a degree of calculating here and a degree of restraint and discipline that is dangerous, right? because he is generally extremely undisciplined. and extremely impossible to restrain in his impulses. but whoever it was that got in his ear, the white shoe lawyers who defended him in the well of the senate, they stopped him from doing this during the trial because it would look terrible. he basically stayed out of the limelight. as soon as it's done, he's out with the entire sort of angry patriarch wedding toast that we saw in the -- in the east room. and now, taking these concrete

steps that as john heilemann said, it's unclear whether they are lawful and they go against promises that were made by secretary of defense esper that they would not stand for any retaliation. >> does it matter if they're lawful if the republican party, backed by their new dershowitz theory of donald trump's ability to rule is that nothing he does is unlawful so long as he gaves them judges, he can do what he wants. does anybody legitimately believe that william barr is going to defend the law, the rule of law? you know, they're all the hand of the king at this point. >> a certain dictator, whose name we dare not use. when -- when the people tried to kill him around 1944, the collaborators, he not only hanged him, he hanged him with wire. he had movies taken of him being hanged. he said he made is so their clothes would fall off so he could watch the movies. is this guy that bad? >> when i was watching this sort of feast to donald trump that took place in the east room yesterday in the -- after the prayer breakfast. it was a bit like sort of no one

wants to be the last to stop clapping for saddam. everyone wanted to make sure they were the loudest applause and the greatest cheers. >> i was thinking north korea, chris. when i watched the synchronization of the applause in the chamber of the house. their faces like in north korea. the face at the same -- >> they must all smile. >> let me say this. this is clearly someone who, from the -- from 10 or 20 or 30 years back if you look at interviews of him, had this kind of authoritarian impulse. he thinks it's kind of a bad system. he admires other systems that don't have democratic input. he's been very clear on that. he's also fundamentally a coward and he's fundamentally incontinent in his ability to control himself. >> wait a minute. two things. you said -- one you said he showed restraint. so he's not incontinent on that part. >> he can keep it together for small periods of time but then the dam bursts. >> changed your metaphor. >> important to sort of keep your eyes on here is i think in

a bizarre way, if you look to the approval ratings of the president, during impeachment, his approval rating ticked up. even though the subject of the news was the president's misdeeds, he was absent from the proceedings. he was not actually in the chamber. when he comes back out and gives the weird wedding toast he gave. when he comes back out and starts firing and going after people, people are reminded of the person who is actually sitting in the white house. >> he also is money conscious and he saw 250,000 jobs were created in the last month. and he heard that this morning to start his day off. he feels very confident he can knock somebody's block off politically. >> speaking with republican friends who know trump well enough, i -- i texted one of them to say what's going happen next? and they texted me back one word, bloodbath. that donald trump is out for revenge. that if he gets a second term -- this is republicans talking -- >> who's left on the list? >> he'll try to get rid of anyone -- >> the bidens. >> what i think we should be worrying about right now is his sense of -- sense of vengefulness is so complete.

and his sense of being completely free to do whatever he wants is so complete that they are now looking at -- you have republicans looking to go after the bidens. to do the work that they couldn't get ukraine to do. he will now direct -- we don't know. we don't know what he's going to direct the department of justice to do. we don't know what he is going to direct the irs to do. suddenly, the irs is free to turn over hunter biden's information when they couldn't turn over trump's. this is an unrestrained force and it is not a democratic force. this is not the way democracy works. >> what's your hunch as we get the judgment for the supreme court about the new york push to get his tax returns? could he be in the woods again? could he be not the free man he thinks he is? >> the -- the -- the question that's going to come before the court, as i understand it, not as lawyer but married to a very good one is fairly clearcut lylely. this is not that hard a case you got to tame 'em over. it's very clearcut. we all saw at the state of the union when he shouted out brett

kavanaugh and neil gorsuch and they looked at each other. it's mcconnell, it's trump, it's gorsuch and it's kavanaugh sitting there. and the question is are there five votes on the supreme court to order the president to actually follow the law? even if the law is clear. >> by the way, he embraced the chief justice too. >> exactly. that's what i was going to say. he seems to be on the team. >> i don't think john roberts liked that picture. thank you so much, joy. you guys know your stuff. joy and chris hayes, thank you. we'll be back at 11 for a live post-debate coverage. great night for him and the american people who are actually going to see some of the -- some of the guys who gotten through -- people who have gotten through the earlier debate coming into another one. up next, what do democrats want in 2020? other voters are still trying to decide which candidate to support, iowa entrance polls show they have made up their minds about which issues matter. they do want medicare for all, based upon the entry polls. i am going to talk to presidential candidate senator

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welcome back to "hardball." senator michael bennet of colorado is staking his campaign on a strong showing here in tuesday's primary in new hampshire. coming up soon. suns since he won't be on tonight's debate, here is your chance to hear what he has to say. i am joined now by colorado senator and presidential candidate michael bennet. i am hearing a lot of good things about you. you got the raging cajun rooting for you. so let's tell us. suppose you had an opening statement tonight, roughly what would it be? >> i think it would be that we got to take donald trump in the

facts. this guy is an expert at being born on third base, saying i hit a triple when i saw the state of the union the other night. and -- and he's talking about the jobs and we know that during the obama administration, we were actually creating more jobs than under donald trump. and the american people need to hear that. the american people need to know that farm bankruptcies are up 25% this year. farm income is down 16%. our farm exports are down $4.6 billion. 30% of farm income in this country, chris, this year is from the federal government. and it's trump borrowing $28 billion from the chinese to try to soften the blow of his idiotic trade war that he's claiming credit for during the state of the union. >> why is his numbers of job approval come up? >> because we're in the 11th year of a -- of a -- of a -- of a recovery. and, you know, he is lucky to be president when we're in the 11th year of recovery. i think there is no evidence that he's had anything to do with it. >> who is out there hauling people out of their offices

because they dared testify to the truth, under subpoena, like vindman did. he did what he had to do under the law. and this guy escorted him out today like he's some sort of miscreant, some sort of bad guy. the public seems to like it. he says in his rallies, beat up that guy. the cops. beat 'em up on the way out. don't hold his head when you put him in the squad car. what kind of thinking is that? >> our democracy is at risk chris. it was at risk before he got there. i don't think he is the central cause of all or problems but he is a mass i have symptom of our problems. nobody is above the law in this country and donald trump is testing the outer boundaries of that but he is not the only one. when mitch mcconnell says, when he is the majority leader of the senate, when he says i'm not going to give garland a hearing. and donald trump says i'm going to fire these people because i can get away with it, haa that't

ancient roman empire starts to collapse. he is marching on rome. >> you know how you make jellos with gels? this primary fight doesn't seem to be gelling. it just doesn't. i know you're not doing that great. you're not the top of the heap. but it's not gelling. i don't sense it going anywhere except to a big cataclysmic fight with a guy with billions of dollars to spend. and i don't know if that's good for the party. >> i think we have to get into a place where our head is straight and we are focused on what matters. we succeeded in 2018. we -- we flipped the house. we won 40 seats. 39 of 40 people ran on a public option. they did not run on medicare for all. and we flipped suburban seats in pennsylvania all over the country. he was on defense on healthcare. sques and he should be on defense on healthcare again. he is the only president in american history who's taken it away, health care, for millions of americans. >> michael bennet, you would do very well in those suburban

collar counties in philadelphia that you are talking about. i agree with you. thank you. thank you. up next, still ahead, presidential candidate deval patrick says it will take an act of radical grace. an interesting phrase. to reunify america once trump leaves office, assuming he does. the former massachusetts governor will explain how he thinks he can make this happen when he joins us next on "hardball" in about a minute. don't go anywhere. as a caricature artist, i appreciate what makes each person unique. that's why i like liberty mutual. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. almost done. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." live tonight from manchester, hachl hachlt, where the democratic presidential primary is now four days away. deval patrick, who was a late entry to the was a late entry i november and has been traveling the state of new hampshire, trying to get his message out and gain the support of undecided voters. i'm joined by former massachusetts governor deval patrick. you want the 5% that's sitting out there. that's what i hear. >> i'm not thinking about percentages. i'm thinking about particular voters and meeting them where they are in every sense of the term. >> i meet them everywhere. people say, i don't know. >> isn't it amazing? even this close. >> i don't know people that say, i don't know. >> yeah. >> what's causing the clog in the arteries of the democratic party? >> you know, i have a theory. it's like we've been bullied for so long by this president, by these circumstances, that we do

what happens when people are bullied. we swing from rage to resignation and back again. you want to get even or get over. having been bullied myself when i was in the seventh grade, in a way, you have to outgrow the bully. you have to be bigger than the bully. we have to offer an alternative for voters, which isn't just our version of what he does, which is bully back and belittle and trivialize people who may not agree with us. we have to offer a different politics. >> i remember being bullied in the third grade by a fifth grader. i got him behind the neck in a choke hold. >> it felt good. >> i was hanging on for dear life actually. let me ask you, you know, i watched bernie this morning. he gave a very strong, very passionate case about health care. that's where his skin gets red in the face, very passionate. it is an idealogical approach. i saw buttigieg yesterday with a lot of service people.

it's a, i'll get you home together, the designated driver. >> yeah. >> does the party want cultural and idealogical shift, a revolution as bernie puts it, or do they want the government to get straightened out? >> probably a combination of both. sooner or later, and i hope sooner, and certainly what i'm trying to do is respond to people the way they come at me, the way they ask questions of me. they're not asking questions about their health care from the perspective of being a democrat. they're not asking about climate change from the perspective of being an independent. what they want is a country. they want someone to speak to them as a patriot. to say, look, we can solve these problems and bind our divisions. we can do that. but we have to -- >> that was your friend barack oba obama's obama's. i was with him in a tough neighborhood in philly above city hall, around temple. >> sure. >> it was a poor people crowd.

9:00 in the morning. huge crowd. >> yup. >> it wasn't when he promised benefits. when he talked about unity, i was so struck. >> right. >> people don't have a lot. they live in row houses. may be tenants. what they wanted to hear was a guy who was going to unite people. >> chris -- >> it is powerful to hear that. >> -- when i think about how my faith in the american dream was given to me by poor black people on the south side of chicago, who had every reason to question whether the american dream was about them, it makes me tremble. i got it. i got it deeply. i know that that anguish and hunger for a place in tomorrow, that's being felt all over the country today. we need to speak to that. that's what i'm trying to do. i do that -- >> by the way, the patience to me, and i think about it a lot, 250 years of slavery, 100 years of jim crow, 50 years of whatever, and there's still this hope. >> yup.

there has to be. the whole country is founded on hope. the whole idea was a shot in the dark. the notion that you can have a country organize around civic ideals instead of the way countries are usually organized, geography -- >> stay at it. >> -- race. >> stay at it, governor. you don't need me to say so, but please do. >> thank you. >> highly respected public official. >> thank you. >> civil servant to the country. up next, my thoughts on what the new hampshire primary and the other early contests are all about. you're watching "hardball."

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it snowed today in new hampshire, like it did here in 1968 when eugene mccarthy trudged through the state to prove lyndon johnson's days were numbered. i love it here. have loved it since my parents took my brothers and me on those wonderful summer road trips, and that time we rented a farmhouse along a country road in bradford, where i played a piano much of an afternoon, all by myself, in a summer stock theater, even if i didn't know how to play a piano. now, i'm watching bernie and pete duke it out up here, fighting what looks to be a run of preliminary bouts to see who can outlast the outspending mike

bloomberg. yesterday, i watched buttigieg standing in the midst of a veteran group. this morning, i watched sanders talk about politics at the college. the senator of vermont hit an issue we've addressed on "hardball" and will many times, voter suppression. >> if i cannot win an election based on my ideas, then i shouldn't win the election. how cowardly can you be, if you don't think your ideas are going to prevail to get out of politics and get another job. >> i like what sanders said because the only reason to be in politics, as maine senator once told us, is to be out there all alone and be proven right. that's what this presidential election is about. at least in the early going. from here in new hampshire to nevada and south carolina, it's about standing out there and hoping that people will listen and agree.

up here in wintry new hampshire, it looks like a snow fight between pete and bernie. stay with msnbc for the analysis of tonight's debate. chris hayes will be here in new hampshire with a live studio audience. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us, and stay with us on msnbc. we are live on the ground in new hampshire tonight, and it is all happening right now. new polling. a debate that may be do or die for several candidates. new signs about what new hampshire voters want in policy and in their stance against donald trump. let me tell you something. if you watched this show, you may have heard it before, the early polls don't matter much. national polls hardly ever matter. i saw that myself traveling the country working on a presidential campaign in 2004. you've probably seen it yourself following campaign cycles, where obama trailed in early polls for months and months, or rudy giuliani and herman cain were allegedly number one in national polls. you know what can matter? what the