he then put the gun down. lied down on the floor and surrendered and he is now in custody. police believe he is the same shooter who shot at the officers in the van last night. so, in a matter of 12 hours, we have at least two police officers shot in the city of new york by the same gunman. who's the suspect? we do not have his identity yet. we do not know if he's emotionally disturbed, if he has some sort of vendetta against police officers. we expect to learn that information shortly. but, clearly, in the bronx tonight in the 4-1 precinct great concern for the police officers. two who were shot. one in the face, one in the arm. both expected to survive and both are expected to be okay. >> jonathan, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. jonathan dienst investigative reporter with our sister station

wnbc here in new york. i'm ali velshi at world headquarters in new york. new hampshire will be the first in the nation to cast their secret ballot for a candidate to run against president donald trump. in a poll taken following friday night's debate shows bernie sanders at the top of the pack among 24%. followed closely by pete buttigieg at 22%. a margin of error on this poll of plus or minus 4.4%. on saturday the candidates presenting a united front making a last-ditch appeal to voters. >> i know i speak for every candidate. matter who wins the democratic nomination, we are going to come together to defeat the most dangerous president in the history of this country. >> now, there are a lot of people right now who are worried. that this fight against donald

trump may not be winnable. but i've been winning unwinnable fights pretty much all my life. >> we should only nominate someone who can on the economy and i can do it and we have to poll together this fantastic, diverse party and i can do it. >> now, that said, one of the early frontrunners pete buttigieg the focal point of some of the other moderate candidates. joe biden releasing a new campaign ad targeting the lack of tangible experience compared to his as a senator and former vice president. amy klobuchar had this to say about pete buttigieg. >> i'm the first one that rang the bells on this repeatedly in the debate because i think that it's really two things. one is without experience of being able to get things done and it seems delightful sometimes for people to have a newcomer that doesn't have a

record. i think this time, having experience of getting things done matters. >> mayor pete buttigieg offering this up regarding his experience and his candidacy. >> that is very much the point. because americans in small, rural towns, in industrial communities and, yes, in pockets of our country's biggest cities are tired of being reduced to a punch line by washington politicians and ready for somebody to take their voice to the american capital. >> all right. joining us now tom steyer 2020 presidential candidate and founder of next gen america' before we begin, i want to listen to what tom steyer had to say at the debate on friday night. let's listen together. >> the question is, who can go toe to toe with mr. trump? who can take down mr. trump because he's the real threat to the country? >> tom, when you said that, it

caught my attention on friday night because you're answering the question that i think anybody who does not like donald trump, that's not just democrats. that's moderates and that's republicans who don't like donald trump. people who think donald trump is a danger. that is actually the message. but you said it and i don't think you had frustration in your voice, but you sort of made the point that we keep talking about the same thing at these debates. keep drawing little distinction between these candidates and, in fact, the priority of voters is making that determination and only that determination. who beats donald trump the best? >> absolutely, ali. what we've seen this week is that is unless the democratic party comes together and nominates somebody who can take down mr. trump on the economy because he's so clearly running on the economy then we won't win. but if we do, in fact, nominate someone who can go toe to toe with him on the economy who can show what a fake he is, what a fraud he is and then can pull together the glorious diversity of the democratic party, then, in fact, we can go on and have a

historic victory in november of 2020 which is what has top haen for the good of the country. >> what is pulling together the glorious diversity of the democratic party involve? i am asking you this, are the progressives out there supporting bernie sanders and some supporting elizabeth warren. will those people come out to vote for tom steyer, if tom steyer gets the nomination. how do you, tom steyer pulls together the glorious diversity of the democratic party? >> well, ali, you're breaking it down into progressives and moderates. and i'm a straight up progre progressi progressive. i really am. but what i was talking about at that debate was to include the idea that we're racially diverse, that we have a huge contingent of african-americans who are so important to the speart and bra spirit and brains and leadership of this party and latinos who are a central part of this party

who absolutely are the heart and soul of this party that we have to be appealing across the spectrum to everybody in america. this is the party of working america. this is the party of diverse america. we have to stand up for those people, address them directly. and make sure everybody shows up at the polls because that's how we beat donald trump. i can do that. >> if you listen to donald trump's rhetoric, african-americans are doing better than they have ever done. it is amazing. i'm not 100% african-americans see it the same way and i don't know and i don't want to speak for them. how do you answer the question, i'm african-american, i don't think i'm getting as big of a piece of the pie as i can how is the white guy in the plaid tie going to solve my problem? >> the first thing you should know is that i think i'm the only person running for president in saying i'm for reparations. i'm somebody that says in virtually every policy area in the united states whether it be

housing or criminal justice or education or climate, there's an unspoken and very important racial aspect to it that must be openly addressed. so, for instance, in climate, ali, i'm someone who has worked on this for over a decade, but i start with environmental justice. i start in the black and brown communities where this society has chosen to concentrate its poisons. we can't breathe without getting asthma or drink the tap water without getting sick. if you start in those communities with leadership from those communities and that's what i've done for over a decade. that's my crew. that, in fact, you get the right policy and you get the right leadership and you put together the coalition that you need. >> i want to talk about the other side of things. what do you say to americans who believe donald trump's stuff about record stock market under his watch, record low unemployment on his watch. he keeps talking about growth, economic growth that is actually better than it is. but there is polling that shows

he says that in some people a third of this country. 35%, 40% of this country seem to believe it. what do you do for people who think the economy is actually pretty good? >> you know, ali, it's a mar-a-lago economy. it's growing tepidly but growing and all the money is going to the rich people. low unemployment but you cannot live on the jobs that this economy produces. the stock market is up. it's up largely because mr. trump has given the biggest tax give away ever to rich people in big corporations and those rich people are who own those stocks. this is an economy that works for his pals at mar-a-lago, but it does not work for the working people of this country and he is someone who gave over $1 trillion to the richest people and the biggest corporations and blew up the deficit and you know and he said he's going to solve that deficit by taking away the

rights of americans. rights to health care, medicare and medicaid and to retirement, to social security. he's going to balance the books on the backs of the american people and that's not just stupid, it's morally wrong. >> tom steyer, good to see you. i know you candidates have long days there, thank you for joining us early in the morning. tom steyer, in manchester, new hampshire. msnbc road warrior mike is with the biden campaign and he joins us now. mike, we have been talking about this for a few days. biden had a rough run in iowa. the numbers, the polling numbers although they have large margins of error, the latest polling has him in fourth place in new hampshire. tell me what success looks like for the biden campaign today and tomorrow and tuesday? >> well, ali, i don't think we can overstate the predicament that the biden campaign is right now. in order to evaluate where we

are, where biden entered this campaign which was his biggest argument was his biggest strength was his perspeceived strength. donald trump was a threat for everything he stood for and his message to democrats is i am the one who can beat him. i can win swing states, get on my back and we'll do this. the problem for him as you lay out, ali, there are now after that tough result in iowa fourth place finish, there are polls now that show him when you consider the margin of error and slipping into fifth place. that puts him in this position that he started this week of launching what was initially a two-front battle focused on bernie sanders and the argument about electability for the entire democratic ticket and what it would mean to have a socialist at the top of the ticket. on the receiving end policy oriented attacks from democrats throughout the campaign. those attacks from mayor pete buttigieg painting this brush of the past that i think have

really, and that snarky ad contrasting his record with his. we've seen something we haven't seen in the recent weeks, take a lot of questions from reporters. he was asked repeatedly to explain why he was going on the attack. let's take a listen to what he said. >> i have never been very comfortable attacking somebody else. i don't think we need a circialicircling fire squad. this is the first time i responded to the constant, constant assertions. >> the biden campaign insists that they are in this race through south carolina and on through super tuesday. but this is a real test for them on tuesday. he needs to be in the top two or three to go forward. >> real quick, mike, the biden campaign has always thought it would do well in the early states and then a firewall in south carolina because of african-american voters. are they still thinking that?

that biden emerges at the top in south carolina regardless of what happens before that? >> they still believe that, ali. that's why there is this push and pull within the campaign whether they can continue to fight through south carolina. the problem, ali, 18 days from north carolina fromnfrom new hampshire to south carolina. a long time whether or not he can do this and with mayor bloomberg in the wings saying he can pick up the baton and take it forward. >> mike, thank you. i'll see you tonight. we're joined by simone sanders. good to see you. i have not had a chance to talk to you in a long time and much has changed since last we speak. let's pick up on that. we will talk about whether joe biden does well in new hampshire or not. everybody always thought joe biden has a safe place in south carolina amongst african-american voters. and he does seem to amongst the older african-american voters

who make up the large part of the electorate, the democratic primary electorate there. other candidates making end roads with younger african-americans but is south carolina your firewall? >> look, ali, first, glad to see you, happy to be here. we have always viewed south carolina as a launching pad, if you will, to super tuesday. i'd like to note that, yes, i heard mike there. good reporter. we're always glad to see mike out there on the road with us. yes, 18 days between new hampshire and south carolina. but nevada is up next and the nevada caucuses we do believe are an opportunity for us. so, we know it's going to be competitive in new hampshire. but whatever happens after new hampshire, the day after, we're ready to continue in this fight and looking forward to nevada. >> what's gone wrong? what's gone wrong with the campaign? >> i don't know if it's about what has gone wrong. this is a race where there are a number of candidates and we always said it was going to be a

fight we never thought we would be handed this nomination, if you will. i think when we said it will be a fight, some folks didn't believe us. but we and vice president biden came to new hampshire the day after iowa and on wednesday, he stood up and gave a very fiery and forceful speech indicating and telling the people of new hampshire and also folks of america why he's still in this race. understanding he has been knocked down before. this isn't the first time and he knows he will have to fight for what he wants. he wants this nomination, ali. what you have seen from joe biden this week is him fighting for it. >> let's talk about, you heard me talking to tom steyer, popal don't like this idea they're in a progressive tent and a moderate tent -- >> i agree. >> do you agree? >> i don't like the tent. i don't like this. what the reality is what we see on the road from voters across this country is they're not thinking of what is keeping them up at night in terms of moderate

or progressive. they're thinking about it on the issues. one of the most important issue to folks in america, health care, is an issue that people are saying, look, i want to know how you're going to lower costs across the board. will i keep my private health insurance if i like it. how much will it cost? on those questions vice president biden has been very clear. senator sanders, for example, who have not. vice president biden asked senator sanders on that debate stage. how will you pay for it? what will your plan cost? the reality is that these voters across the country and people in new hampshire are looking for people who can answer the tough questions that they have about the issues facing them in their communities every single day. >> elizabeth warren put a price on medicare for all and her poll numbers started going down as soon as she did. in the end, the strongest thing arguing for joe biden when he first got into the race was electability and name recognition and the fact that he was there and the fact that he was a fighter that could beat trump and appeal to a democratic

that may not go to bernie sanders and may not go somewhere else. something that people wanted to stay away from because electability seems to say things that people don't want to articulate and if it's important for democrats to beat donald trump, what is your argument about joe biden's electability? >> our argument about vice president's electability is about his broad coalition and where he sits on the issues. electability is about the issues. it's about health care and the majority of americans are aware of where vice president biden is when it comes to health care and about the issue to connect to folks. in south carolina and nevada and also in places like where i'm from, omaha, nebraska. places across this country and the candidate that has the broadest coalition is joe biden. ali, since 1992, the democratic person is the person that is able to garner a substantial amount of votes from the african-american community. you will not find those votes in

iowa and new hampshire alone. we had to let this process play out and we're confident that we do have the broadest coalition. that we are still in this race. that we will be able to compete. and we will have the delegates that we need to win this thing. >> symone sanders, thank you for joining me. joe biden campaign senior adviser. the one republican left standing up to the president former massachusetts governor bill well joins me after the break. bill well joins me after the break. introducing tide power pods with cat & nat. i love how much i can stuff into these machines. but that is such a large load, don't the stains sneak through? please. new tide power pods can clean that... whole situation. you just toss it in before the clothes. it's like two regular tide pods and then some power and then even more power. with 50% more cleaning power, even your large load got clean.

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on friday, former congressman joe walsh dropped his bid to challenge president trump and made one major admission on his way out saying no one no matter his or her profile can defeat donald trump in a republican primary. why is one member of the gop still trying to take on the president? joining me now is the only republican candidate left challenging president trump in 2020. former massachusetts governor bill weld. governor, good to see you, again. i spoke to joe when he dropped out and i said, will you throw your support behind governor

weld and he said governor weld is a great man, he's not going to be able to take on donald trump. what is your response to that? >> well, i certainly can take on donald trump and it's a pleasure to be here in manchester, new hampshire, as crunch time nears. you can feel the adrenaline. the irony is this is also in my view, ali, crunchtime for the united states. we have got to decide as a nation are we willing to sink into a system of government by one man. it's no more complicated than that. most of the people i talk to around here are terrified. >> let me ask you about new hampshire. this is going to matter to you differently than other places are going to matter to you because you were a neighboring governor and well known in the northeast. what does success look like to you in new hampshire? >> i suppose success equals exceeding expectations in new hampshire, but i'll tell you one thing. it doesn't matter what the numbers are in new hampshire.

i'm going on to super tuesday with massachusetts and vermont and colorado and california and a whole bunch of states that belong to that community of 24 states that allow independents to vote in the republican primary. >> so, governor, tell me how this all plays out because the last time you and i talked was before senator mitt romney did what he did on the senate floor and before the president's weird state of the union speech and before the prayer breakfast and before the rant the president went on and before the purge that began, the night of the long knives on friday which lieutenant colonel vindman and his brother were escorted out. gordon sondland which is no friend to democrats and trying to protect donald trump was recalled as ambassador from the eu. donald trump, you and i discussed this, controls the republican party. ronald mcdaniel tweeted against her own uncle mitt romney in the speech that he made on the floor of the republican party.

what levers have thinking principaled republicans have at this point. a republican party of which 94% of the people support donald trump. >> well, my main leaver, ali, i am the better of the two candidates because i'm an economic conservative. i was rated the most fiscally conservative governor in the office and that used to be worth something in the republican party and i'm a realist about protecting the government and the steps we have to take to avoid because of the polar ice cap melting. i am a realist because multipliers and no point kocozyg up to dictators. the fact that he has all these side bars and side steps and you never know what is going to pop out of his head next, that is just an additional icing on the cake. >> you have called him a boil

and i'm just reading an article from the "new hampshire union leader" which was filed about ten hours ago in which it said weld predicted the republican party split in half if trump is nominated. what does that look like? does somebody like you and somebody like mitt romney and does a coalition of all these never trumpers conservatives who used to be republicans and republicans who don't like the idea that their party has been overtaken by donald trump. does there become another party to compete with republicans if donald trump emerges as the candidate? >> i think that might happen, ali. only if he's elected, not if he's notinated. if he's elected i thought last friday was a dark day when all the republicans in the senate essentially rolled over and played dead except for mitt romney and said we'll quit this guy. we never heard any evidence and

that never happened in american history and it was a sad day in terms of the checks and balances that the constitution pain stakingly put in place and they all got blown away in one day. i consider that a dangerous situation. >> governor, i'll see you in new hampshire tonight. thanks, always, for taking the time to have a conversation with us. former massachusetts governor, 2020 presidential candidate, the only republican candidate left standing against donald trump, governor bill weld. acquitted and empowered. how is president trump dealing not only with his political opponents, but with an unprecedented number of regulations with no coherent strategy at all. the very real consequences behind donald trump's moves when my partner, stephanie ruhle joins us live from new hampshire. e. low sugar mmmm, birthday cake! and try pure protein delicious protein shakes americans come to lendingtree.com to compare and

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presidential candidates are in new hampshire ahead of the primary and so far much of the focus has been on the idelaumgical differences between biden, buttigieg and sanders, as well as the push and pull between progressives and moderates in the democratic party. but where are the women? they seem to have been written out of the ideological split given the fact that they represent the same internal conflicts that the male candidates do. stephanie ruhle spoked to james carville on this very issue. listen to this. she's there. okay. stephanie, good to see you,

friend. i have not had a chance to be on tv with you since you have been in manchester, new hampshire. you have an amazing hat on. let's talk about this. if you are a progressive or a moderate in the democrat, party, you have representatives in elizabeth warren and amy klobuchar along any line that you could possibly be interested in and yet there seem to be men dominating the questions asked at debates of some of the coverage and the appearances and elizabeth warren made this point to chris hayes or chris matthews on friday night after the debate to which she had been in the conversation more. what is your take on this? >> you are absolutely right. just think about this, ali. in the last day, amy klobuchar had her biggest, single 24-hour fund-raise yet. 2.2 million between the end of the debate and elizabeth warren left iowa in third place.

what were the headlines out of iowa? mayor pete versus bernie sanders vying for first and could joe biden be out or make a surge, forgetting the fact that elizabeth warren is squarely in third and now we're in new hampshire. that's her backyard. amy klobuchar from a poll perspective, the most recent tracking numbers from "the boston globe" has amy klobuchar up 3% while mayor pete down 3%. mayor pete and about bernie sanders and about joe biden and also these women. you know what they're doing? they're grinding higher. i had a chance to interview both of them yesterday and i promise you, ali velshi the energy in the room was massive. amy klobuchar's events were drawing double she normally gets. what was the story out of that? oh, why did the "new york times" pick two people? forget it was two people or one people, it was a big deal they

got those endorsements. these women are on the field. they're real contenders. >> steph, i want to talk to you about regulation. with impeachment behind him, donald trump is turning his attention back to deregulation, limiting the power to go after companies accused of wrongdoing. he has looked to exceed past republicans in deregulating, promising that for every new regulatory law two are going to be reversed. now, let me just give you an update on the success of this. for one thing, 90% of the deregulation efforts have been struck down by the courts. 5.7% of donald trump's proposals met with success. given an extra $3,000 a year to families, that is disputed by fact checkers. the administration also proclaimed that deregulation has slashed regulatory costs by $50 billion and helped unleash an economy.

donald trump, steph, will want to do more than this. one of elizabeth warren's strengths is that she actually is a regulator. she knows how to do this and a lot of people saying that the right amount of regulation is not one for every two that are taken back or whatever it is. it's the right amount of regulation. regulate what needs to be regulated properly and don't regulate things that don't need to be. >> ali, it's about smart regulation, not more or less. remember, elizabeth warren was the one that created. she was the driver behind the consumer financial protection bureau. what did they do? excuse me. bring billions and billions of dollars from those wrongdoers directly to those people who were taken advantage of. but, also, this is the president grabbing a headline. he loves i'm deregulating and it's impacting people and gets that big headline. you just said it, then those deregulatory efforts go to the courts and most aren't successful. the president doesn't need them to be successful. he needs the headline. here's the dirtiest secret of it all.

this is all the president winking at ceos and the market out there. what do companies do when they think regulation is coming? they sit on cash. they don't spend it. because they know regulations cost money. the president knows the key to being re-elected is the economy. he ties it directly to markets. and you often say, oh, just wall street people are invested in the markets. that's not true. people's pensions and 401(k)s and teachers and firefighters, they love to see the s&p up 29% last year. the president wants the market to go up, again. one of the reasons the market while it went up during the obama administration but maybe a little slow is because companies were sitting on cash because they feared that regulation was coming. now, they can let it rip because they know the president won't be regulating them and it is the ultimate short termism. you don't want to deregulate, let's let things go. bad things could happen ahead that will cost you way more money. i'm talking about the environment. but the president doesn't care about that. he wants a headline where ceos

are going. there's no rules coming. that works for me. >> something voters should think about as they go to the polls on tuesday. the other half of "velshi & ruhle." i'll see you tonight, steph. >> i'll see you tonight. just days after the iowa caucus failure, democrats are hoping to find some redemption in that new hampshire primary. still ahead, why this week's problems are merely symptoms of a much larger issue affecting our cyber security and the road to the white house. this is msnbc. nbc.bowl now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives,

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the election cycle has been a lot of talk about doing away with caucuses entirely. many say the system is not accessible to some voters including those with disabilities and parents of small children. there's also been complaints about iowa being the first in the election process given the fact that the state does not particularly represent the nation geographically. in this week's caucus app failure caused massive delays in who would get a share of the 41 delegates in iowa. remember, you need 1,900 on the first ballot to win. by week's end pete buttigieg finished with slight advantage over bernie sanders at 26.1% and the new app was seen as a way to modernize and make it more efficient because it's a complicated caucus system in place in iowa since 1972. since that time seven of ten

candidates who have won the democratic caucuses in iowa have gained the party's nomination. but only two have gone on to win the presidency. jimmy carter in 1976 and barack obama in 2008. in '76, carter the former georgia governor first put the iowa caucuses on the map. he was declared the ultimate winner but a closer look showed carter captured the state's available delegates that year. carter won 13 of them and a larger number of delegates were uncommitted. the next best candidate claimed six. carter didn't win, but he wasn't expected to do that well. the media narrative became carter won and that's what iowa became. a media narrative, a fund-raising narrative and a thing that candidates brag about. there aren't enough delegates in iowa or new hampshire to matter in the grand scheme of things. this week we move on to the first primary of the election season a primary state that does not accurately represent the

state of the party. is it time for a change and what are the real threats to elections right now? there is a philosophical question whether iowa and new hampshire should be first and another conversation and that's what i want clint watts for. clint is familiar to this time slot. he's a former fbi special agent and msnbc national security analyst and author of "messing with the enemy survival in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians and fake news." and your concern, clint, is sort of secondary to you about whether iowa is first and new hampshire is second. it's actually about you can't run any sort of election process that isn't secure, isn't properly tested, doesn't have proper paper backups. let's just solve the easy to solve problems first. >> right. once you put technology into the mix, you're adding a lot of variables. so, what is the idea of technology. we can record easier and faster. we canning ing aggregate the red

each piece of that makes it a little more complicated which allows for not just changing the votes, manipulating the votes or loss of data, denial of service attack. suddenly the power goes out at a polling place and those people don't get to vote and it also makes it so that disinformation could creep in and every piece of that chain. was my vote counted, was it reported correctly. how do i know this? how do i prove it? >> a point you bring up and roger brings up all the time. every time one of those things happen, it sews doubt in the mind of the participant. and, really, the game for bad actors is to keep you home and keep you out of the process. we did see lower than normal turnout in iowa and i spoke to t the chair and they are not expecting to have record breaking on tuesday. highly erosive to democracy. >> that's right. the whole goal whether it's russian disinformation we talked about last election or this round is to make people not have

confidence in the elected institutions, the people that are representing those just to sew doubt. you don't even have to offer facts. we saw that a lot after iowa. all sorts of confusion about what was going on. when you look at preparing for new hampshire, nevada that is coming up. some of these other places, one, keep it simple. we talked about paper ballot backups how many times on this show? people trust that piece of paper whenever they mark on it. once they're submitted. >> the only piece of technology involved in paper ballots is a simple scanning machine that does not have any connection to the internet whatsoever. >> a trail that people have confidence innkeep it si pnkeei. keep it simple. they had trouble, they had a backup system and it didn't work well either. come out and say this is where we're at and what we're doing. restore confidence. >> you had two, three days of everybody wondering, are you

guys capable of running an election? that, again, sews doubt. voters in new hampshire who are thinking they're going to mess this think up, again. >> releasing partial results. why can't i have the other sflul results? is there something wrong with it? when we look at all of this. one, who are the users? if they're bringing in technology, do you have user training and rehearsing. most of these people are volunteers. >> in nevada democrats are debuting a new ipad tool to calculate the math on the caucus day. a volunteer quoted in an article said, quote, we were not given the program to work with or practice with, a few slides to look at while they told us they're planning to develop it further. planning to develop it further. this thing is in two weeks. what are you talking about? >> this so reminds me of my time in the military, right. you bring in new technology and we don't take it to battle and we don't do anything unless we have rehearsals and exercises with it. everyone is comfortable with it.

and then we always have an immediate manual backup because you expect that technology to fail. these folks right here running these elections, they're volunteering their time and they're volunteers and don't have time to go to multi-day training and they don't get a lot of practice on this stuff. set them up for success. >> no reason not to have technology but we can figure this out. you think there should be a lottery to determine which states go first. that is an interesting concept. >> the country has changed dramatically. you had the segment about jimmy carter, the caucus way back then, that set the tone to where he ends up with the nomination. look, the united states is a much larger country and there's a lot of demand for transparency. more people wanting to vote and know their vote counts. much, much more diverse united states than men and women, you know, more women voters now than men voters. so, let's mix it up a little bit. let's get a lot of other states in there, especially when we're campaigning 365, 24/7 between

each election. >> clint, i know you have been a good friend to this hour of tv and i hope that will continue. >> whenever you need me. >> msnbc national security analyst clint watts. we're seeing him take revenge for impeachment. joined by two "washington post" reporters who literally wrote the book on the president's behavior. after the break. k. it takes only one week to reveal younger looking skin. neutrogena® ♪ ♪ everything your trip needs, for everyone you love. expedia.

>> the question is, who can go toe to toe with mr. trump?

who can take down mr. trump because he's the real threat to the country? >> to be the kind of president, to be the kind of human being who would seek to turn someone against his own son, who would seek to would seek to weaponize a son against his own father is an unbelievably dishonorable thing. >> president is going to make up lies. he thinks he has free reign right now. when the conversation turned to trump the candidates sounded the alarm regarding the threat that he poses to the nation. this is especially true in the aftermath of the impeachment trial and has led to rising fears that trump may feel he has free reign to do what he pleases. >> i'm worryed this guy has a free pass on anybody. >> did his strategy work against you? >> i don't think so. i mean, i don't see any evidence of it works against me. >> the investigation of the company by son was on the board with was over.

it's pure sham. but that's the way trump works. it's not going to work on me. i've been hit a lot but it's not going to work on me. i'm not going to walk away and not going to take this country back. >> joining us carol leonnig and phil rucker. they are the co-authors of the new york times best selling book "a very stable genius: donald j. trump's testing of america." a took that deserves to be not just a new york times best-seller but it's really required reading for the next nine months. what we need to understand is what happens next. you wrote a book that was published prior to the impeachment. but it is -- carol, it is a road map for the way donald trump thinks. we started to see that unfold on tuesday night at the state of the union on wednesday on thursday at the prayer breakfast. then with donald trump's 62

minute rant and then the removal of the vindman brothers from the white house and sondland from the eu ambassadorship post. what does the next nine months look like as donald trump starts to seek revenge on those who he thinks have not supported him the way they should have? >> past is prologue. this is a president on a path for retribution. it's a president who feeled unchained, unshackled. every obstacle that he's come in contact with, he's hurdled it. it's sort of unprecedented. the mueller investigation. a criminal investigation that found substantial evidence of him engaging in obstruction of a criminal probe. he hurdled that. he hurdled a house investigation which was rather rapidly gathered information and evidence that showed he had sought a political favor from a foreign official and applied

some pressure, at least, indirectly by withholding aid. he hurdled that. he faced a senate trial. he was afitted. you're going to see this president shaking the snow globe of washington ever more as he has been doing in sort of increasing i guess increasing degrees. it's just a trajectory of a presidency that's bent on busting all the norms. and the line he crossed this week in terms of removing public servants from the national security counsel, it's his right to do it, but it's so unprecedented because that's a nonpolitical fact-based body that is supposed to give the president facts to keep our country safe. >> we want the best people in the country, phil, at the national security council. the best. we don't need the best people in the country for the ambassador to the eu. we need them at the nsc. to carol's point, there is no

cost to doing this for donald trump. there was no major cost to him from the mueller report. there was no major cost to him from being impeached. a gallop poll out this week currently shows the president with the highest approval rating he's had since he's taken the presidency. 49%. he has 94% of an approval rating from republicans. it's three points than his previous best among the gop. there's zero disincentive, phil, to the president, to behave this way. >> that's right. and that's because the republicans in the senate and in the house are so fearful of his political standings. so afraid of crossing this president that they're unwilling to stand up to him. they're unwilling to challenge him. they're unwilling to hold him accountable for his conduct in ukraine. mid romney of utah being the lone exception there. and i suspect this pattern is going to continue, and frankly,

it's one of the reasons why there's so much anxiety coursing through the democratic party right now. i spent the last couple days on the phone with top democratic officials fearful about the president's strong political standing at this moment. and worried that he might be more difficult to beat for reelection than they may have bargained for initially. >> carol me what you can't tell me otherwise you'd have to tell me. but where are the people like the formal navy secretary to has left and said donald trump is danger. there are adults who think he's reckless and think he's bad for the republican party, and they are not on our tv shows talking to us or writing op eds. >> the people who talk to me and to phil for this book are feeling really conflicted. as you know, they're petrified of the power of this president to vilify and humiliate and take

his megaphone, twitter, and start to ruin their careers or make it hard for them to get work in the future or make them unsafe as lieutenant colonel vindman felt for a while. fear is one of the dominating factors of this presidency. >> thank you so both of you. thank you for the great reporting you do and thank you for a meaningful book that i implore our viewers to read. "a very stable genius: donald j. trump's testing of america." up ahead, an all star panel joins joy reid in manchester. what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts. yes.

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that's it for me today. thank you for watching. "a.m. joy" starts right now. >> this is not a time for small ideas. this is not a time to nibble around the edges of problems. this is not a time to be vague and elusive. this is a time to step up and when we see a big problem, offer a big solution. and fight for it. i'm not running re