our movement. i'm not sure they are necessarily part of our movement. you understand the nature of the internet. a strange world out there. >> that does it for us. "morning joe" starts right now, everybody. i am not afraid of donald trump. donald trump is ahead of us -- afraid of us and why he keeps tweeting all the time. if he doesn't mention you, you've got a big problem. >> bloomberg came in and he multiplied it times ten. if you were a black person walking down the street, you were going to be stopped and africaed under bloomberg. >> there are still a half dozen democrats running for president, but right now donald trump is focused on mike bloomberg. and vice versa. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, february 14th. it's valentine's day. remember? white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire. remember? better not mess this up. >> valentine's day.

>> thank you. thinking of your wife. bring flowers. msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. remember, michael? >> working on it. >> oh, boy. his chorion and author of "the soul of america "and rogers professor of vanderbilt university jon meacham joins us, nbc news and msnbc news contributor just ran out the door to get some flowers and former u.s. attorney now nbc news law enforcement analyst chuck rosenberg, who i know remembered and former justice department spokesman now an msnbc justice and security analyst matt miller is with us. joe's away with his kids for this presidents' day weekend and willie taking a well-deserved morning off. worked three weeks straight and i'm here on valentine's day. okay. we begin with what appears to be another instance of quid pro quo by president trump. there's a lot to get to, so we're just diving in. the same issue that got him impeachedthe first place.

before a meeting with andrew cuomo president trump put out 0 link that put out a freeze with demand the state drop a myriad of lawsuits against him and his administration. just doing it in plain sight. why not. right? he wrote this -- i'm seeing governor cuomo today at the white house and he must understand that national security far exceeds politics. new york must stop all of its unnecessary lawsuits and harassment, start cleaning itself up and lowering taxes. yeah. new york's attorney general letitia james issued a subpoena for trump's financial records and has filed a number of lawsuits against the trump administration and the trump organization. she responded to the president's tweet writing, when you stop violating the rights and liberties of all new yorkers we will stand down. until then we have a duty and

responsibility to defend the constitution and the rule of law. by the way, i filed ethe lawsui. not the governor. wondering. weird what we see happening. wonder if anyone saw this coming? cue house representative from just two weeks ago. >> what we have alleged in this case is in a the president solicited a personal political benefit in exchange for an official act. solicited dirt on a political opponent in exchange for the release of $391 million in military aid solicited dirt in exchange for a white house meeting. and if this senate were to say that's acceptable, then precisely as was outlined in that question could take place

all across america in the context of the next election and any election. grant allocated to cities or towns or municipalities across the country, but the president could say, you're not going to get that money, mr. mayor, mrs. county executive, mrs. town supervisor, unless you endorse me for re-election. the president could say that to any governor of our 50 states. that's unacceptable. that cannot be allowed to happen in our democratic republic. >> chuck rosenberg, seemed so ludicrous when hakeem jeffries made that example of what potentially could happen and yet as of yesterday, it has. what's the recourse? what's your take moving forward?

>> first of all, you know, it's not that hard to predict that the president will be a logical and petulant, mika and by the way, i don't know if you can put his tweet back up. >> uh-huh. >> but there is a rank inconsistency within it. first says national security is much more important than politics. and in the very next sentence, there's the rank politics. right? the very next sentence after talking about the primacy of national security there comes the threat. if he doesn't get what he wants, a cessation to the lawsuits that have been filed against him and his organizations by new york state, then he's going to exact revenge. mr. jeffries was spot-on. i give him credit for that, but this has been a pattern we've seen over and over and over again and i think it's deeply disturbing. >> so jonathan lemire, so much has happened. we started with this. there are many other things that happened yesterday that we could have started with. given the attorney general's comments later in the day, which

we'll get to, but we've got a situation now where the president's appears to be issues quid pro quos in realtime on twitter. what are you hearing from the white house and from your sources in washington? >> yeah. doing so in plain sight. there's little attempt to cover this. we know the president has had sort of a contentious relationship with governor cuomo and most new york officials because most of democrat and a series of investigations the state has run in addition to what's going on in the house of representatives. that is something the president has been irritated about for a while. recall, of course, even renounced citizenship on the state of new york. is now a citizen of florida. in part because of how upset he was with how things were going on with those officials. now, what is happening here is exactly what representative jeffries implied. seems to be a quid pro quo offer right in front. took away this program, global program a few weeks ago. suggesting he's trying to put it

back on the table if these investigations stop and gets a cheap shot at the governor's brother while he's at it. no deal struck yesterday that we've heard. letitia james spoke out forcefully against it, the attorney general. this is window how the president is feeling post-impeachment. completely emboldened, unchecked. we saw what happened in the few days after the verdict. lieutenant cornlonel vindman walked out of the white house in front of cameras. the tip of the iceberg. told people around him we've written this week he feels not only did he survive impeachment but come out stronger than ever, because no one in the republican party except for mitt romney dared stand up to him. >> we've seen a pattern here and michael steele, it's the president can't take a win. he can't take a win when he's gotten his way. when he's gotten through something. he can't take a win. actually doubles down and gets

worse. which leads me to susan collins, i believe, saying, well, i believe the president has learned a lesson? well -- no. he's doing it again. in plain sight. the republicans own this, but do they care? >> no. they don't. and you know, in large measure, because, you know, they've saddled up with the president in terms of, you know, the way all of these things play out. you know, on the first part of this, you know, you get on the other side of impeachment, and what you see is the president now wanting to exact his revenge. he wants to settle the score. this is not over until he says it's over. until he feels that he's made his point after those who, you know, perceive has come after him and done so. so you have that. republicans still sit there stymied by the whole thing where you have a susan collins telling us, oh, well, you know, he's going to learn from this. the president doesn't learn

anything from these exercises, as he sees them. he sets his own course. so, you know, as i've said before, the important thing, mika, what do we learn from it? >> yeah. >> what do we get away from this? because that's the important part of this. we know trump is not going to learn anything, because he doesn't want to. he set his course, his mind in a certain direction. what are we taking away from this and what will be our next move as government, as citizens, as the state of new york? and how do we now adapt on this playing field, if you will, to what the president is doing with the, you know, the perp walks of career soldiers from service, et cetera. >> all right. keep moving through this incredible set of events in the past 24 hours. president trump has now attacked the lead juror in the case that ended with his friend roger stone's conviction. trump tweeted "now it looks like

the fore person in the jury in the roger stone case had significant bias. add that to everything else and this is not looking good for the "justice department." puts that in quotes. the attack came the day after former memphis school board president ta mika hart identified herself as lead juror in the facebook post. hart said she's didn't silent since the november 2019 conviction out of concern for her safety but decided to speak out in defense of the four prosecutors who quit the case after the department of justice overrode their recommendation. hart also defended her own work posting to facebook this -- as foreperson i made sure we went through every element of every charge matching the evidence presented in the case that led us to return a conviction of guilty on all seven counts. since identifying hers, the

president's allies and the media dredged up old social media posts claiming to show bias. hart did run for congress as a democrat in 2012, but stone's defense knew that when they cleared her to serve on the jury. meanwhile, the chief justice of the federal district court in washington issued a rare public response to trump's attacks. the judges of this court base their sentencing decisions on careful consideration of the actual record in the case before them. the applicable sentencing guidelines and statutory factors and submissions of the parties, probation office and victims and their own judgment and experience public criticism or pressure is not a factor. let's stop right here. chuck rosenberg i want it hear your thoughts. >> well, first of all, judge howell is spot-on. exactly right. i am not concerned, mika, in this particular case the outcome

of the sentencing will be unfair. in fact, judge jackson is a well-respected jurist. she's smart and tough. it will be a fair outcome. what worries me is that the perception of the outcome will be fair. the department of justice has to be two things. objectively fair and perceived as fair. when the president weighs in on a case about a friend of his and asks the justice department to do a particular thing, which is then does, that goes to the perception of fairness. and judge howell and judge jackson, by the way, we heard this from chief justice roberts, have spoken out about the, the men and women who comprise the federal judges across the country and how they don't succumb to pressure and how this thing doesn't work, but the public doesn't necessarily know that. so the president put the judge in a terrible situation. because it either looks like she's capitulating to the president, if she sentencing mr. stone lower than guidelines call for or rebuffing if does not.

when in fact all she's going to do her job. be just and fair. the outcome will be fair. i worry about the perception. >> all of this brings us to the so-called barr fight. >> love t. the attorney general saying in a new interview with abc news that the president's comments and tweets make it "impossible for him to do his job." william barr insists he was not asked by the president or anyone from the white house to intervene in the stone case. barr says he spoke to the u.s. attorney before the sentencing memo was turned in and advised him not to recommend a seven to nine-year prison sentence. but instead to defer to the judge. here's what the attorney general says happened after claiming the u.s. attorney defied him. >> on monday night, when i first saw the news reports i said, gee, the news is spinning this. this is not what we were going

to do. >> you were surprised? >> very surprised, and once i confirmed that that's actually what we filed i said that night to my staff that we had to get ready, because we had to do something in the morning to amend that and clarify what our position was. i had made a decision that i thought was fair and reasonable in this particular case, and once the tweet occurred the question is, well, now what do i do? and do you go forward with what you think is the right decision or do you pull back because of the tweet? and that sort of illustrates how disruptive these tweets can be. >> so you're saying you have a problem with the tweets? >> yes -- well, i have a problem with some of the tweets. i'm happy to say that, in fact, the president has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case. however, to have public statements and tweets made about the department, about people in

the department or men and women here, about cases pending in the department and about judges before whom we have cases make it impossible for me to do my job. >> the white house press secretary released the following statement in response. the president wasn't bothered by the comments at all. and he has the right just like any american citizen to publicly offer his opinions. president trump uses social media very effectively to fight for the american people against injustices in our country. including the fake news. the president has full faith and confidence in attorney general barr to do his job and uphold the law. okay. matt miller, you know, i'm really thinking about these comments, which, know, seem to really push back against the president at first, at physicfi whoa, what's going on? stepping away a little bit?

is he a little bruised by all the criticism he's gotten? because the legal community in washington is so tight? but seems to me that what he's saying is that these tweets make it harder for bill barr to help him be corrupt. what's your gut? >> i think you have it exactly right, mika. look, bill barr often has a way of saying all the words you want to hear out of an attorney general. if you go back in time and put the words said yesterday in jeff sessions mouth what we always wanted to hear from jeff sessions. see him pushing back against the president's attacks on the justice department. problem with barr is his words about independence and the fact he can't be bullied, going to do what's right in the traditions of that department are never backed up by his actions. so when i see him yesterday, what i hear is when he says you're making it impossible for me to do my job. he means, you're not giving me the political space to operate to do all the things you want me to do, donald trump. you know, i think -- barr has made it very clear his interests and the president's interests

are aligned. he will squash investigations into the president when he can, when it's too late to squash as in the case of mike flynn and roger stone even the mueller report, he will steer them in the president's direction, launch investigations into the president's enemies as he's done with jim comey and seems to be doing against john brennan with his investigation to the origins of the original election interference. he will do all of these things for the president, but he needs the particular ed to shut up and stop messing it up talking about it publicly. what happens, he starts a revolt inside the justice department. i suspect barr was trying to quell that incertainly revolt we saw start this week when four prosecutors removed their names. telling the president, just be quiet, i will give you what you want. >> exactly. >> you have to give me the spas spas -- space i need. >> lemire? >> and one voice, close to the president, insisting he's not upset by these comments. might be if indeed this is the

play just described. also we know the president doesn't react well to negative media coverage and more we see barr's comments played over and over, we may hear from him. in the white house statement said the president like any american has the right to voice his opinion. fact check this for me, jon people uch meacham, is he, this president, like any american and if so, why is this so consequential. >> that part of the phrase jumped oubt at me. which editor in the white house added "including the fake news." i wonder if it was put in in sharpie. that has feel. doesn't it? the remarkable thing about the president is his capacity to in its epic, even in presidential terms, hi encyclopedic grasp of grudges and his ability to hold them and weaponize them going forward. mrs. john kelly this week. right?

remembering a conversation, congresswoman dingell, he allegation had a phone call about chairman dingell's funeral. remarkable internal taping system that spews out everything that the world as he wants to see it, and he's not just like every other citizen, to go straight to the your point. john adams in 1790 wrote that the president, the first character was going to be the object of all eyes, the object of all attention. that creates an enormous amount of responsibility. but at this point, we're so far into this, we know that the presidency is not going to change him. for us, seems to me to go to michael's point, it's now on us in a large measure, and on republicans in most significant measure to decide whether he's changed the presidency itself. and whether he's changed our public culture forever. i've been basically optimistic

for almost four years now that i would take james madison over twitter. i'm less so now, as things go on. there were a number of republicans i thought would stand up at the last possible moment and say, enough, and as you played the congressman jeffries statement, you have this remarkable moment where the train is blowing past, rapidly. and what folks are going to have to decide at a certain point is, do you want a president picking on judges, trying to change cases? the two things, my two check boxes that we're going to be break the glass kind of emergencies were going to be, try to remove a judge? ever try to overturn a verdict unilaterally and try to postpone an election? the two things to watch out for. and he's getting awfully close on the first. >> well, i mean, at this point,

i think we can safely safe, if there's a question that begins with would he ever do, a., b. or c., the answer's, yes. so it's up for republicans to decide how much exactly can you live with? coming up on "morning joe," a lot more to get to here. we reported the news that john kelly made, top of our show yesterday, soon as it crossed, but a lot more to what the retired general had to say about the president and we will paint the full picture straight ahead. but first, let's go right to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning to you, mika. haven't had many forecasts with arctic blasts or how cold it is. this is one of those days. not lasting long. today is a very cold morning. 26 million people under windchill advisories and a few warning. worst in the central plains but much colder in the ohio valley and areas in the south than yesterday and headed for the north eat today. cold effort morning in dallas in three months here at 19 degrees.

chicago, feels like negative 16 and getting chillier. d.c., 29. later on in the teens. in other words, grab all the winter gear. today's forecast. at least not a lot of rain or snow out there. a little bit for friends in areas of florida, and far as your weekend outlook goes, after a very cold start in the northeast saturday morning, the sun will be out and slowly warms up. the worst weather is in the pacific northwest. another storm coming through and sunday east coast, warm it up. back up into the 50s in areas like washington, d.c. a little rain for friends around the gulf coast and mountain snow from the storm that moved on to the west coast on saturday. overall, a pretty quiet weekend after a very chilly start. new york city, grab that hat and glu gloves. colder this afternoon. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. molly: my np spends a lot of time

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26 past the hour. a live look ak the white house. welcome back to "morning joe." to more fallout from former chief of staff john kelly eviscerated president trump on a host of foreign and domestic issues. kelly's unleashed misgivings about trump's behavior at an event wednesday sounding at times like the anti-trump. on the topic of immigration, a key initiative in which he was responsible for advancing, kelly said that trump's border wall doesn't need to extend from "sea to shining sea." also disapproved of trump's language about migrants explaining that most are generally looking for jobs. "in fact overwhelmily good people. not arapeists and murderers and it's wrong to characterize them that way. i disagreed with the president a number of times."

the retired marine general faulted trump for meddling in the case of eddie gallagher, a navy s.e.a.l. convicted of posing with the corpse of an isis fighter. kelly said "the idea that the commander in chief intervened there, in my opinion, was exactly the wrong thing to do. had i been there, i think i could have prevented it." and on north korea. kelly said that the country's rogue leader kim jong-un will "never give his nuclear weapons up." kelly added, "president trump tried." one way to put it. it didn't work. never all that would do anything other than play us for a while and he did that fairly effectively. president trump responded to the barrage of criticism from his former kbt member tweeting yesterday, i don't even -- is it worth reading? when i terminated john kelly which i couldn't do fast enough he new full well that he was way over his head being chief of staff just wasn't for him.

he came in with a bang, went out with a whimper but like so many exes, really? he'd know. he misses the access and just can't keep his mouth shut which he actually has a military and legal obligation to do. his incredible wife karen who i have a lot of respect for once pup immedia pulled me aside and said strongly that john respects you greatly. when we are no longer here, he will only speak well of you. wrong. well, it must have been so bad that he just couldn't help himself. former national security adviser john bolton who is also recently, has spoken out about his time in the trump administration strange to kelly's defense tweeting, "john kelly is an honorable man. john and i disagreed at times as is commonplace at senior government levels but has always served his country faithfully. conservatives especially, have a responsible to reject baseless

attacks upon him." jonathan lemire. the president is pushing buttons of people who were frustrated working for him and kept their mouths shut, but you know what? i think at some point somebody's just going to pop. >> yeah. >> not be able to take it anymore. >> perhaps so. one small fact check. john kelly a agreed to the immigration policy, maybe not the rhetoric. >> the human way he characterized people. >> what he's saying now. right. certainly, john kelly the first few months in this time as chief of staff was able to impose rigor and discipline to the oval office. it didn't last. by the end, trump and kelly would have shouting matches that could be heard throughout the west wing, trump's frustration and kelly not able to control him and reduced his power and moved him out the door. michael steele, bring you in. john kelly frank in criticisms here, but my question is, one,

what took him so long? and if he felt this. and wouldn't this has been more useful perhaps during the impeachment trial that just concluded? lastly, where's everyone else? why have we not heard candidly from former secretary of state rex tillerson and former secretary of state james mat is ismatti ismattis and others? >> probably book deals haven't been signed yet. i appreciate this. john kelly the insights about the character and nature how this white house operates certainly any information relevant to the articles of impeachment would have been helpful. this was a paid speech, and the audience got what they paid for. and so that's fine. i mean, it's just, you know, yeah. there probably will be more, mika, who will come out and say

something once all of the right deals have been negotiated but the country weren't wait for that, and that's the part that's so bothersome. that these individuals in the room, at the table, and have information that just a few weeks ago maybe would have moved a senator, a republican senator or two. >> right. that's the part, michael, that's so frustrating. it's like -- i guess just no reason to begrudge someone for making money, but -- >> no, i don't want to do that. but, still, the country needed you. >> come on! yeah. jon meacham, i move to you now and am scared to ask but thinking the answer is, no. is there a parallel to this moment in history? >> of everyone around the president thinking that he's dangerous to the republic? >> yeah. that. >> is that the moment you mean? >> yeah. that one. >> i think we're pretty much past where the bus has run, as we say in the south.

you know, there's some feel about the very last days of nixon. >> hmm. >> a lot of these kinds of details came out in books like "the final days." but part of what was striking about those is, they were new and unique at the time. the idea of a president being out of control, in a nuclear age in particular. this -- the trump factor on this is now just entirely part of our daily vernacular, and you had a great point a moment ago whenever you start a sentence, call this now the mika doctrine. whenever you have a sentence, "would he ever --" the answer's, yes, and you can move on. so this is a deeply serious moment. this establishment idea that these generals, these folks from

the experienced ranks, mattis, kelly and others, that they were the guardrails, and that everything was going to be fine. i think that time and chance now have shown us that fundamentally it matters enormously who's behind that desk and what half the country is willing to put up with. and that's the one piece of slightly good news here. it's that, it doesn't take many people in the upcoming elections to flip this. it's, you know, you're talking about a very narrow margin of the right people in the right number of states. we've had seven presidential elections since 1992 and a majority of those elections the person who became president did not get above 50% of the vote. we are a, an incredibly divided country, which is at once scary but also offers an opportunity.

>> with what you just said we'll be having a conversation ahead about what's going on with the democrats and also a separate conversation that's connected about mike bloomberg. let's move through this all methodically. a federal judge sided with amazon yesterday over the disputed joint defense infrastructure cloud contract putting a temporary block on the contract that was awarded to microsoft back in october. yesterday a court notice announced the injunction, but it was not made public for an undisclosed reason. the jedi cloud contracts purpose is to modernize the pentagon's i.t. operations, and could be worth up to $10 billion. over ten years. the department of defense had been deciding between granting the contract to amazon or microsoft. ultimately went with microsoft on october 25th. last month amazon disputed that

decision arguing that the evaluation process had clear divisionsies, errors, and unmistakable bias. amazon claimed that president trump showed personal bias as he has often made amazon their ceo jeff bezos and the newspaper bezos owns, the "washington post," part of his pointed attacks, and in the summer of 2018, president trump reportedly told then defense secretary james mattis to screw amazon out of a bid, a quote by the way, for the coveted contract, which joe predicted by the way back in november. it would prevent the contract from holding up, if, in court, if challenged. so matt miller and then chuck, i mean, a lot going on here. as we focus on the notion of courts that are really being put under strain here, but so far holding up. >> yeah. holding up in this case. u think the common thread that runs through this story and everything else we've talked about is the president's abuse

of power. to use the newly coined mika doctrine, the president shouldn't be able to do that, but, yes, he's willing to, in the same way he's willing to reach into a state and try to withhold a program that benefits the citizens of that state because he's mad at what its political leaders have done. not an appropriate use of power nor an appropriate use are power to reach into the pentagon's contracting process, supposed to be completely apolitical and use that process to try to target one of this perceived political enemies and it's good to see, you know, the third branch of government still holding, because we see the second branch of government, obviously, the legislative branch, completely cave to the president and unwilling to stand up to him any any way leaving us just to the courts. the question, whether the supreme court is will to do the same? sad to say in most cases they haven't and i suspect the president in all cases that go to the courts thinks i may lose here in district court or appeals court, in the end five votes on the supreme court and

probably get away with whoever i want in the same way republicans in the senate will let me get away with whatever i want. >> chuck rosenberg, a little chilling here, to me. >> it is chilling. look, there's significant risk. it did shake me a bit to hear one of my favorite historians and authors jon meacham, his optimism is fading. but i still retain maybe a child-like faith in the courts of the united states, mika. i spent most of my professional life in those courts, and as chief justice roberts said, i didn't know if the judges, or i should say, i didn't know or care if the judges in front of whom i was practicing were appointed by republicans or democrats. it really didn't matter. and i don't think it affected the outcome of the cases i was trying. so i don't think the third branch of government is just holding. i actually think it's flourishing. you know, matt way well be right. the president might have five votes on certain issues in the supreme court and prevail on an

issue or two, but in the courts of the united states, my experience, you get justice and thank god they're still there, and we see now judging doing something extraordinarily unusual. speaking up. not just chief justice roberts on behalf of the supreme court but the chief judge in the district of columbia, district court barrel howell coming to defense of men and women who are our jurjurists. i think our courts are flourishing, whatever havoc the president wreaks on the executive branch and to an extent the legislative branch i don't think he's gos ing to undermine the courts of the united states. >> thank you both for insight. we'll hold on to that. still ahead, the twitter feud between president trump and mike bloomberg is escalating. trump insoughting bloomberg for his height and bloomberg is hitting right back. plus, taking a look at the delegate map that could add up

to a democratic nomination for senator bernie sanders as long as michael bloomberg doesn't impact the calculations. "morning joe" will be right back.

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somebody said, know, that he's taller than me, calls me little mike and the answer is, donald, where i come from we measure your height from your neck up. [ cheers and applause ] i am not afraid of donald trump. donald trump is ahead of us -- afraid of us and that's why he keeps tweeting all the time. if he doesn't mention you, you've got a big problem. >> michael bloomberg yesterday at a campaign event in north carolina. after his long insult-laden twitter fight with president trump. meanwhile, a new morning consult national poll has senator bernie sanders in the lead up four points since before the new

hampshire primary and ten points ahead of former front-runner joe biden. biden is statistically tied with former mayor michael bloomberg who is at 18% of support. both sit within the poll's two-point margin of error. joining us now, donny deutsch, former chief of staff to the dccc and former director of communications for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign adrienne elrod and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate teder it of the "washington post" and analyst eugene robinson. okay. so, let's just take this apart one by one, because we're looking at mike bloomberg as a potential disrupter in this race, but i'll lay it out. we've been sort of edging around these stories. stop and frisk. the big apology. do you all remember when he want add third term and just changed the rules? okay? these are the parts that concern me. right? at the same time, on guns, and

on governing, he's qualified. just wonder, who can talk to me, and in fact michael steele, i'll start with you, is bloomberg getting a close enough look early enough on? >> it's starting to happen, mika, and you know, you see it bubbling in two spaces right now. certainly one in the broader national conversation. reporters are beginning to dig a little back into his background. replay some of those stories. move them forward to sort of contextualize them in terms of how he's running his campaign and what kind of president he would be on certain issues. and in the african-american community, where he's really caused a royal because of the way joe biden has imploded. complete flat lined at this point. >> really? it's just -- >> south carolina is not enough of a wall for joe biden at this point. >> absolutely. >> a lot of african-americans you're seeing starting to pull off of him. it's creating this kind of, you

know, regurgitation, if you will, of the mike bloomberg era in new york city. >> wow. okay. jonathan lemire? >> certainly at the moment. >> you covered him, yeah. certainly at the moment where polls suggest michael bloomberg is making in-roads and cutting away from joe biden's african-american voters with scrutiny at his time in new york city. i covered him for years, mika said, that third term. worked to overturn the city charter, running for four terms needed a steady hand at the wheel. after those four years won by a much smaller margin that time around, by the way. those four years uninspiring kpeered to the previous eight that changed it back and no one else can do that. to mika's point. donny, lived here a long time and you've watched him closely. but he's going to have to talk about his record with african-american voters. it's stop amend frisk, the apology, people dismissed as

very politically motivated. audiotape had him a couple years ago defending the practice and the story my colleagues at the associated press broke this week, suggesting red lining, end of red lining part to blame for the economic collapse. how does he answer for this? will he continue to build traction with these african-american voters key to the democratic nomination? >> said this in november at 1% or 2%. i think he'll end up being the candidate. number one, seen already in national polls 18%. national polls don't mean anything, but they do when you start to look at things. the self-fulfilli ining prophec. he can spend $5 billion and that's what he made last year. the amount of money. that tonnage we call it in the advertising business, is so persuasive because he has a story to tell.

a story on guns, on health care. a story to tell on the economy. got a story to tell on climate change. the other thing he has is the ultimate trump anecdote. trump's biggest weapon that 60% of people in the country think we're going in the right direction about the economy. that is powerful. the answer is not a bernie sanders who says we're going to blow things up. the answer is a guy who says, guess what? i can do even better. his credentials. this is the guy that has the answer. you need to -- need to appeal to, he's a progressive moderate that appeals to suburban women, that appeals to, get reagan democrats, and can also get those independents. the other candidates, by habit won't have it. he is the hope. >> you say the other candidates don't have it, and gene robinson, i don't know if you agree, but i'll throw to you. >> yes. >> what you say mike has, donny,

is money. like, why is he going to win? he has money. why is he going to win. >> not just money. >> has all of these money. we're looking at a candidate, fyi, with all the money and definite great positions with clear history and body of work of fighting for gun reform. love to see that happen. i might even vote for mike bloomberg. i'm torn about this but saying this is a candidate who has this stop and frisk stain on his legacy. that he's trying to wash away with an apology after years of really disrupting, and putting it lightly, the lives of millions of minorities. he's got ceo brain. let me just do the list here. he just decided he wanted a third term and forced, you know, the city council to change the rules, got it and decided he doesn't want anyone else to get a third term and changed them back. we actually have that right now. that's my problem.

so buying the election is the third issue. that's the third issue. we solved the problem of trump but are we creating new problems we're so desperate to beat trump? i wonder. i'm looking at candidates who are truly qualified, who the reason we like them are four legitimate reasons that pertain to political positions and hopes and dreams and values. this is based on money. >> well, mika, first of all, i'm voting for whoever runs against donald trump. so you know -- if it's mike bloomberg, i'd vote for him as many times as they let me. just about stop and prifk. you n frisk. i'm a black man and have been racially profiled. it's happened. never in new york, that's just b by happenstance. i have friends and people i greatly respect who because of their experiences with stop and

frisk in new york really have serious problems with mike bloomberg. i respect that, but also i think, you know, african-american voters are not naive and they have these experiences. they know that there is racial bias throughout the criminal justice system in this country, and there always have been and maybe some day there won't be and that will be a great thing, but we live in america, and so this happens, and so i -- i think it's a mistake to expect that african-american voters would not apply that broader experience and say, gee, you know -- i mean, when you, if you look that deeply enough into amy klobuchar's record as a prosecutor and i have great respect for amy klobuchar. happily vote for her. look at pete buttigieg record as mayor, and again, i would fully vote for him, so i don't think

anybody has illusions there's a perfect candidate. i don't think, frankly, you know, the way bloomberg defended stop and frisk was obnoxious. i wrote about it at the time, but i don't think many african-americans are going to say, geez, a 77-year-old white guy in america who might be a little racist? tell me something else that's new. right? this is kind of discounted. and now -- perhaps for the democratic party, you know, maybe the more existential issue is that, yeah, he intends to sort of buy this election. >> uh-huh. >> with all of this money and with this very smart organization he's put together. so the real question is, is this the kind of emergency that i personally think it is. is it such an emergency that we have to prevent another four

years of donald trump at all costs? that you look past those things and look towards his record on guns and climate change -- >> michael bloomberg buys support, has influence, able to get support and by the way, i'm hearing some black leaders, major black leaders, are going to support him. he definitely is getting a growing amount of support from the black community. but the policy is worth looking at. it's just an interesting conundrum, if he's the candidate. >> certainly. he is building momentum. i think for so long, adrienne, loomed over the horizon's not competing in the first four contests. >> right. >> sort of becomes for a lot of democrats perhaps not satisfied with the field, sort of the sagier wsage i -- savior coming to rescue them from donald trump. his official entry to the race, super tuesday, in some ways, is approaching. scrutiny started. research dropped by other candidates and he'll have a

major test but looks like a first appearance on the debate stage. >> i argue that's when the race starts. >> retail political skills never that strong and rusty. hasn't run for anything in about a decade. how will he do? advising him, what's your strategy for him next week in a debate? taking questions about things like this, stop and frink. >> first, get ready. you will be the major person attacked by everybody on the stage. show contrition and show a forward-thinking message what you'll do for the actual voters in america going forward. i mean, michael bloomberg has a lot of strengths, but he's sort of known for not always being, i guess, super congenial. so you've got to show that you are serious about this race and of course we've seen, also, what can you bring to the table? what is your forward-thinking message? i think the real test for mike

bloomberg will be, not just on super tuesday, but we're going to, like, how does joe biden do with african-american voters? obviously, mike bloomberg is not on the ballot in south carolina. if joe biden continues, his support declines among african-american voters in south carolina and worse case scenario for biden, if bernie sanders actually does better, if he wins south carolina, or at least does better among african-american voters in south carolina that is a good entry point for mike bloomberg to get some of those african-american voters definitively on his side. right now still sort of trying to figure, do we stick with biden? some of them are going to sanders, and some going to bloomberg. if biden has a poor performance in south carolina, i think -- i've said this a lot and talked about it a lot. only 1% of african-americans and latinos so far in the country in the democratic electorate voted so far. there's a lot of momentum coming

out of iowa and new hampshire. take a step back and realize nevada and south carolina the first two diverse states. >> should we be counting joe biden out? >> i don't think we should -- >> go the to go, but -- >> i don't think we should yet because we do have so many more people to vote for. if he can show decent showing, top three in south carolina, win nevada, life reinvigorated back into his campaign. >> we are in an emergency. who is going to beat trump? i love the fact he has $10 billion to spend. we are in an emergency. >> thank you all. we'll read your latest opinion piece in the "washington post" entitled "america the banana republic," gene robinson. still ahead, president trump is facing accusations again of a quid pro quo, well, because he did one. after freezing new york's trusted traveler program, trump is now demanding that the state drop its unnecessary lawsuits. plus, attorney general william barr has been one of the president's biggest allies, but now he's apparently criticizing

his social media habits saying, trump's tweets make it impossible for him to do his job. question is, what exactly is his job? also ahead, another former wrestler from ohio state university claims congressman jim jordan knew that wrestlers were being sexually abused while he was the assistant coach, and then he helped cover it up. we'll play that compelling testimony ahead on "morning joe." [sfx: doorbell] hello, i saw you move in,

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donald trump as you know is a man of great passion. he cannot contain emotions of any kind and, in fact, celebrates valentine's all year long with a laser focus on both hugging and kissing. >> hugging, there was hugging, also kissing. i just love the guy. he's hugging me, kissing me. heads of these companies are coming up hugging me and kissing me. >> hugging and kissing, they're hugging and kissing. >> she was hugging and kissing.

>> hugging and kissing and crying, they're all hugging, kissing, everyone's crying. >> hugging and kissing and crying and laughing. i said way a minute i just said hello to the guy 15 minutes ago. he's hugging and kissing me, and he's talking to these people -- it's bad. >> if that doesn't get you in the mooed i don't know what it going to, he just ruined by valentine's day. good lord. >> yuck. >> hugging and kissing. i got the worst hug from trump once. blah! welcome back to "morning joe." i'm serious. it's friday, february 14th. happy valentine's day. thank you for the flowers, joe. joe and willie are both off this morning, but we have a great group with me here. still with us, we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire. >> president has not hugged me. >> oh. you're so lucky. donny deutsch is here. >> to the viewers out there, want to lose your breakfast think about actually kissing donald trump. happy valentine's day, donny. >> come on. and former chair of the republican national committee michael steele is still with us.

joining the conversation, pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian doris kerns goodwin also with us and nbc news and msnbc law analyst and editor-in-chief of "law fair" benjamin wittes. washington afternooner for bbc news america katty kay and professor of history at tulane university walter isaacson. also with us, state attorney for palm beach county, dave alanberg. a lot of legal folks with us today. a lot to talk about. we start the hour with what hears to be another instance of a quid pro quo by president trump. it doesn't appear. pretty much looks like it. the same issue that got him impeached in the first place. before a meeting with new york governor andrew cuomo yesterday president trump put out a tweet that linked his administration's decision to freeze new york's access to the trusted traveler program with a demand that the state drop a myriad of lawsuits against him and his

administration. he wrote this -- i'm seeing governor cuomo today at the white house. he must understand that national security far exceeds politics. new york must stop all of its unnecessary lawsuits and harassment, start cleaning itself up and lowering taxes. new york's attorney general letitia james issued a subpoena for trump's financial records and file add number of lawsuits against the trump administration and the trump organization. now, just two weeks ago, house impeachment manager hakeem jeffries warned of this exact behavior. >> what we have alleged in this case is that the president solicited a personal, political benefit in exchange for an official act. solicited dirt on a political opponent in exchange for the

release of $391 million in military aid. solicited dirt in exchange for a white house meeting. and if this senate were to say that's acceptable, and precisely as was outlined in that question could take place all across america in the context of the next election and any election. grant allocated to cities or towns or municipalities across the country, but the president could say, you're not going to get that money, mr. mayor, mrs. county executive, mrs. town supervisor, unless you endorse me for re-election. the president could say that to any governor of our 50 states. that's unacceptable. that cannot be allowed to happen

in our democratic republic. >> all right. let's take this apart one step at a time. ben wittes and then dave arenberg. i believe the president was impeached for behavior like this and republicans saying, good, he's learned his lesson. kwoe it won't happen again. and this this tweet. is it a quid pro quo and what do you make of it? >> hints at conditions you drop these lawsuits or i won't let good things happen to the state of new york. right? and the nature of the lawsuits are ones that he's personally invested in. so he's -- he's definitely playing with fire here. on the other hand, the fact that, you know, 50-plus senators could watch hakeem jeffries warning about precisely this sort of thing, and kind of shrug their shoulders and say, you

know, i'll run that risk, you know, suggests that he probably feels, and i think probably rightly, that in the sort of culture of impunity in which he operates, he doesn't have a whole lot to worry about from this. >> dave arenberg, your take? >> well, susan collins was right. he has learned his lesson. the lesson being, he can get away with it. he can do this and no one's going to stop him. now saying the kwquiet part out loud and who's going to stop him? his own party protects him no matter what. if the house tries to impeach again it will fall flat and nothing's going to happen. it's up to voters in 234novembe. this is a political issue. this is a quid pro quo to me but now in an election season. the way to resolve is tthis is through the ballot box in november. >> that's the question in front of us, because everything that happened yesterday has led to

the conversation we're going to have this morning. especially surrounding the justice system and the attorney general. president trump has now attacked the lead juror in the case that ended with his friend roger stone's conviction. trump tweeted, "now it looks like the fore person in the jury in the roger stone case had significant bias. add that to everything else and this is not looking good for the "justice department." the attack came a day after former memphis school board president tamika hart identified hers as lead juror in a facebook post. hart has been silent since the november 2019 conviction out of concern for her safety but decided to speak out in defense of the four prosecutors who quit the case after the department of justice overrode their recommendation. hart defended also her own work

posting to facebook this -- as foreperson, i made sure we went through every element of every charge, matching the evidence presented in the case that led us to return a conviction of guilty on all seven counts. since identifying herself, the president's allies in the media have dredged up an old social media post that claim, show bias. hart did run for congress as a democrat in 2012, but stone's defense knew that when they cleared her to serve on the jury. they knew that fact. which brings us to this -- attorney general bill barr. this is what he said to abc news yesterday. >> public statements and tweets made about the department, about people in the department, our men and women here, about cases pending in the department, and about judges before whom we have cases make it impossible for me to do my job.

>> i'm not grog to be bullied or influenced by anybody, and i said whether it's congress, a newspaper, editorial boards or the president. i'm going to do what i think is right, and, you know, the -- i think the -- i cannot do my job here at the department with a constant background commentary that undercuts me. >> walter isaacson and doris kerns goodwin in order. reflections on what just happened here. is bill barr saying i can't be his roy cohen if he keeps tweeting or actually pushing away from the president? >> what we have here is people who used to have reputations for integrity, across the board. different people who have been sucked into the trump orbit, and bill barr had that. so did even lindsey graham at one point in his career.

and the question for them right now is, am i going to get out of this with a shred of my integrity left? is he going to go too far and start telling my prosecutors to change their ways of doing things, or tweeting at me, that's causing people to resign? because that is the most gross form of corruption, and the president is engaging in that now for his own benefit. >> hmm. >> so you have to look at a bill barr and say, is he now trying to save some shred of dignity or just giving cover to the president? and i'm beginning to hope that people are saying, i've got to save some not only shred of dignity for myself, but some shred of propriety and norms of the way the justice department is supposed to operate. because history will be brutal to those who destroy the justice department of the united states. >> jonathan lemire, seems the

attorney general is trying to have it both ways. >> right. part of the calculation, quell the uprising at the department of justice. obviously four prosecutors removed the case, one left the government entirely. to this point, anyway, his relationship with the president very cozy. a few fault lines lately because of refusal to prosecute some of the president's enemies, namely, james comey. doris, your read on this and a step back from 30,000 feet, seeing historical parallels, the moment we're in with a president so clearly putting his thumb on the department of justice to try to get it to do its bidding? >> what you're seeing right now, i think is that trump is not able to contain the anger that he has inside of him. that's what the tweets are all about. that's the problem. you know, most of our other presidents i think when upset with somebody in their inner circle, they can tell them privately, this always comes out publicly, no matter how many times people tell him you cannot tweet middle of the night.

what's happening with barr right now, i agree with walter. at some point you're not just the man of that moment and that time. you're thinking of history. how will i be remembered? it's a good thing when people do that. it leads to more worthy -- maybe a deal made he'll say that and trump say, i don't mind what you said, as you said, instead of trump tweeting and getting more angry. always trouble with attorney generals and presidents. think about john kennedy putting in his brother. nepotism. no experience, yet put around him a distinguished team and was distinguished about it. and also rnc chair. people saying, this isn't right. you need -- in the attorney generalship. we'll see if attorney barr is making his future.

>> what barr did is complete b.s. he didn't say we're going to stand -- trump already came out, it's quite okay what he said. that was the most benign, pathetic p.r. spin we are no less dangerous than we were three days ago. >> don't you want to believe that every now and then? >> i want to but we have to get to -- i think joe writing in "the hill" the other day, guess what? trump had his way, putting you in jail, maybe not you. definitely me in jam. >> abojail. >> that's where we are. to think what barr did threw anything on that fire is ridiculous and naive. >> i tend to disagree. who's that. >> you disagree? you think barr -- >> no. i agree. michael steele, jump in. >> donny, thank you. i was sitting here kind of falling out of my chair. i mean, because you know, this is the reality. had already done what trump

wanted him to do. to come and gish a carefkiv a c crafted message. quell the storm that's firing up inside the justice department right now. he doesn't want anymore attorneys to leave. he doesn't want that noise around him, because it's an internal distraction he doesn't want to have to deal with, and the second piece was, he's not going to get sideways with trump. there is nothing in barr's relationship with donald trump that would tell us he's going to step sideways with trump. this message was cleared with the white house, i am wholly convinced of that. because the white house then comes out and insists, oh, know. we're still good with him. when has trump ever been goodth under the bus and he didn't know about it? >> never. >> donny, you got it right. don't pretend this a revelatory moment by barr with some institutional concern. >> this is the man who

mischaracterized the mueller report to the american people to help out president trump. to help out his buddy. i'm not sure how much respect he has, actually, for the very career that he built. >> i think walter and i are always thinking about history and hoping -- >> yes. >> my buddy walter, i would love to agree with you guys. >> i suspects you are right. just every now and then have to have that hope maybe this is the line and tomorrow and the next day he'll start talking about history again. >> walter, bottom line is, if someone says, would the president do a., b. and c. and those three things are very extreme, the answer is, yes. that's the pattern that we have learned covering the history of this presidency. is it not? >> absolutely. and then the next question becomes, are there any people around him, or in the court system, who are going to stop him from doing a., b. and c.? unfortunately, as donny

certainly pointed out strongly, even the people who make an occasional little statement don't seem like they're going to stand up against him. i think it's partly because he's a bully and has bullied everybody in his party. he's got such a strangle hold on the party that especially the people in the senate are scared to move. but i've talked to senators, including senators down here in louisiana. our senators. there is a sense that at some point this isn't going to keep going on, and i particularly feel that way about the judiciary and make a prediction. some of these things are going to get to the supreme court of the united states, and justice roberts is not going to be a totie for president trump, well, president trump has long claimed he "didn't direct his personal attorney rudy giuliani" to, "do anything" in ukraine. despite the testimony of mute po

multiple state officials stating otherwise. one example of past benidenials >> i don't really care what he says, but what was rudy giuliani doing in ukraine on your behalf? >> well, you have to ask that to rudy, but rudy, i don't even know, i know he was going to go to ukraine and i think he cha e canceled the trip. rudy has other clients other than me. >> you didn't direct him to go there on your behalf? >> no, but, no, but you have to understand. rudesy a great corruption fighter. he's one of the greatest in the last 50 years. >> but now, feeling emboldened after his impeachment acquittal, trump seems to be openly admitting to sending giuliani to ukraine to unearth damaging information about his political opponents. >> was it strange to send rudy giuliani to ukraine, your personal lawyer? you sorry you did that? >> not at august. rudy -of-not at all. rudy is a great crime fighter

and totally on his game. rudy's on his game. rudy was a great crime fighter. >> the question, was it strange to send rudy giuliani to ukraine? your personal lawyer? are you sorry you did that? the answer, not at all. katty kay? >> at which won't pe we come back tolt mika doctrine. would he do that? yes, of course, he would do that. there's no limit seems particularly postimpeachment to what the president is prepared to do, and now prepared to say that he did. i think you know, if you operate from the maxim, that in the end everything is about trump for himself, he would say that this was perfectly justified, because he operates in this world in which his own ambitions, his own fortunes are really what he is there for. then sending rudy to ukraine to get dirt on a political opponent would make total sense, and now he has the republican party

saying, yeah, you did that and we have accepted that. after this, he's got the green light to do pretty much whatever he wants. the question reverts to the democrats. democrats tried investigations, tried appeals to the republican party. neither worked. the only thing democrats can do stay lasered focused on november and what can they do to try to win the election in november? >> and cast a really wide net here, but there's an overall question i think on the rule of law. the value of the truth. as it pertains to attorney general barr what he has said and the president's just very latest quid pro quo on twitter. and his admissions in plain sight that he did something incredibly inappropriate, probably corrupt, maybe even criminal. >> yeah. i want to come back to bill barr, because i think i can settle the dispute between the other panelists over him. look, i think bill barr was probably genuinely upset,

because what bill barr wants is to carry the president's water on matters like roger stone and michael flynn, on which he appears to have done basically the same thing with respect to sentencing, and not have the president shine a light on it in public, and embarrass him. what the president did here was, barr, you know, was doing something pretty awful on his behalf internally overruling career prosecutors after they had filed a brief, and the president comes in and says, hey, look, everybody. bill barr is -- is, you know, turning the justice department on its head, and that is not the kind of scrutiny that you want if you're the attorney general doing -- doing what barr is doing. so i think he probably was, you know, genuinely a little bit irritated and feels like the

rug's been pulled out from under him, and he's telling the president in a kind of public way, hey, if you do that stuff, it's -- it makes it really hard for me to protect you, which is what the president really cares about, and i -- so i think there's an element of genuine irritation in what he said yesterday. >> but -- it's still a little distorted, ben, because it's not like you're making it hard to be the attorney general and to be committed to the rulie of law ad be a patriot in this country. >> exactly. >> what he's saying is, you're making it hard for me to help you be a corrupt president. >> yeah. and don't take what i said as annie sense a defense. it is, you know, the thing that irritated bill barr, according to his statement, and his interview, was that the president was tweeting, and that was making it hard for -- making

it impossible for me to do my job. >> okay. >> now, know what is his job as he understands it? his job was to reverse what the justice department wanted to do with respect to a guy who had been convicted on seven felony counts and was facing a normal guideline sentence for that sort of conduct, and so i actually kind of take him at his word that he was, you know, he was trying to corruptly interfere with a, i don't mean that in a technical sense, but trying to interfere with the norm's justice departmejus -- normal justice process and the president talked about it thereby making it harder for him to do his job. >> dave arenberg, what are the risks the country faces especially in cases like this is catered to and supported? >> it's a mika doctrine. do anything he wants at any

time. going to be up to the voters in november to do something about it. i can tell you, one of great things about being an elected state prosecutor is that the attorney general is not our boss. the president is not our boss. it's the people of our communities who elect us. those are our bosses but it hurts the rule of law, our entire profession. when the face of our profession is someone seen as a corruptible roy cohen, it hurts us in front of juris even at the state level. hurts our credibility and the ability of communities to accept final judgments and so it's really important we focus on the fact that the rule of law is being questioned here. what he also does, goes out to communities and he blasts the prosecutors elected by those communities as being too progressive. goes into democratic communities and tells them it's unsafe, what's going on out there. even though crime rates continue to fall. we should tell bill barr that unlike the prosecutors elected by the community, he was selected by a committee of one. >> yep. dave arenberg, ben wittes, thank

you very much both of you for being on the show this morning. a lot going on. still ahead on "morning joe," mike bloomberg turned 78 today. but his online presence is trying to say he's more like 20. how the presidential candidate is paying influencers to make him seem cool on the world wide web. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the lexus es. eagerly prepared for the unexpected. lease the 2020 es 350 for $389 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. (honk!) i hear you sister. that's why i'm partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual check-up, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel - physically and emotionally. but now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. just find a period of time to unwind. a location to de-stress. an activity to enjoy.

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vo: leadership in action. mayor bloomberg and president obama worked together in the fight for gun safety laws, to improve education, and to develop innovative ways to help teens gain the skills needed to find good jobs. obama: at a time when washington is divided in old ideological battles he shows us what can be achieved when we bring people together to seek pragmatic solutions. bloomberg: i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message.

i see a man who gave himself to service. >> we must give them something to fight for. something inspiring. >> something happened in washington that made him think, i have to do this. >> i see a husband. >> it is exquisite. >> and i see a slave owner. >> american history is not a fairy tale. so i think it's a mistake to think of him as entirely virtuous.

>> if we truly want to know that man then we have to look at everything. warts and all. >> washington is not a frozen image. it changes from moment to moment in his life. he evolves. >> despite all of his faults, washington was the one man that made this country possible. >> a look there at the new three-part history channel series entitled "washington," which doris executive produced. it looks incredible. jonathan lemire? >> this presidents' day weekend my thoughts turn to chester and franklin pierce. >> of course. >> but washington and -- >> he's got the best name. >> rutherford b. hayes perhaps but washington will do and doris, series is great. more than that, why is he so relevant today? wa parallels from washington's time to today's with president trump. >> first lesson, look at that farewell address.

final word to the skin citizen. united states. warned against baneful effects of spirit of revenge and the loss of patriotism caught up in partisan attacks, and he said if you do that you'll open the door to foreign influence and corruption. isn't that incredible? >> here we are. >> but also understood the peaceful transfer of power when he's the general. everybody thinks he's just going to take over the government as generals do when they win wars. instead, takes off his uniform, goes back to mount vernon and the king, king iii in britain said, really did that, whe's th greatest man in the world? who would give up power? two terms in office. could have stayed forever. as general powell said, could have been a king, instead, returned home and set that two-term tradition. some wanted to call him his mightiness. he said no. john adams, president of gardens club. a fight between a republican and

president is back there in george washington. he set the precedent. >> from one historian to another, walter isaacson has a question. walter? >> doris, see you i think saturday february 29th. doing a panel with you on the history channel up in new york. >> you are indeed. >> fun discussing this show. so i hope everybody will come to that, but my question to you is, we all talk about wrestling with the flaws that some people have and i know whether it's ben franklin to steve jobs and certainly leonardo da vinci, they have their flaws. with washington, wrestling with the issue of slavery. how do you deal with that in the show? >> no question you have to look at a president and be disappointed in the things they didn't doey wish they'd done given the character and understanding who they were. certainly kept slaves during his lifetime. end of his life, however, durings with will actually freed the slaves as you know, maybe

that's not enough, because he didn't do it during his lifetime. the other hand, none of the other virginia dynasty characters did that. at least setting a pattern for the future. but no question that unless we look at them as accessible human beings, warts and all, as one of the characters in the miniseries says, then we're not getting a person, a monument. somebody on mount rushmore. many things we wished he hadn't done but in the end character, firmness and our first president who set the precedent in the end. you calculate that as part of it or you're not seeing a human being. we all disappointment each other in some ways, deeply. >> premiere 8:00 this sunday night on the history channel. doris kerns goodwin, thank you so much. >> thank you. still ahead, after facing renewed controversy for the stop and frisk policies former new york city mayor michael bloomberg is launching a new initiative to try to win over black voters.

we'll talk about his new efforts next on "morning joe." i'm your 70lb st. bernard puppy, and my lack of impulse control, is about to become your problem. ahh no, come on. i saw you eating poop earlier. my focus is on the road, and that's saving me cash with drivewise.

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i wanted to save lives and respond with urgency to the crisis that was plaguing our communities. and while many of the ways we tried to reduce gun violence and invest in communities were right and we reduced murder by 50%, there is one aspect and approach i deeply regret. the abuse of a police practice called stop and frisk. i defended it looking back for too long, because i didn't understand then the unintended pain it was causing to young black and brown families and their kids. i should have acted sooner, and faster, to stop it. i didn't. and for that i apologized. >> we'll get to that in a second. former new york mayor michael bloomberg apologizing for the city's stop and frisk policy at

a campaign in houston yesterday. announcing the mike for black america, bloomberg's campaign national effort to reach black voters. joining us, "new york times" politics reporter jeremy peters traveling with the bloomberg campaign and "new york times" internet culture reporter taylor loranc loree loreenz, and great to have you all onboard for this conversation. walter isaacson, start with a little anecdotal evidence backing up taylor's reporting. you're hearing from students that mike bloomberg is big with the kids on social media? >> well, as you know, and you've had some of the students, the great ones over the years, i teach, of course, here at tulane on digital revolution and yesterday's class got turned over to a discussion of how

memes, meme factories and meme influencer, people who create memes on the internet, have become the new way of pushing ideas and discourse. we all know about social influencers on instagram or twitter, but these are people who create this things and michael bloomberg as was reported and we'll hear more about it, is using that in a very smart way and in some ways a humorous and sort a self-deflecting way of, i'm an old guy, help me figure this out. we can do this together, and they thought it was very, very cool, how it was done. so i was watching younger people who had normally talking about, you know, yang and others, now going to bloomberg. >> hmm. >> i will say on the other -- yeah. i mean, we did talk about the other controversy as well, and,

you know, it's a class of students, very racially mixed and other, and socioeconomically mixed and the question of things such as stop and frisk, there was a sense that michael bloomberg had done something they found unusual, which is a step forward apologize and explain exactly why he felt it was wrong and then come out with a greenwood initiative, which is his way of saying, it's not just social justice. it's economic justice that has to be done. i think they were saying good he was looking forward on how he's going to address these issues. >> jonathan lemire? >> mike bloomberg is 78 years old today. happy birthday, mr. mayor. not known as perhaps the warmest politician in terms of reaching out into retail and we certainly know at least to this point, bernie sanders seems to have the strong edge among young voters. taylor, this effort, the meme effort, it's part of a larger strategy. is it not?

also the, mike bloomberg is going after the president where he lives, on social media, but the ploeftmost aggressive twitt presence we've seen of anybody. can this work with young voters and secondly overall strategy. is this something that will get him ahead of game? >> it got trump ahead of game. a new tactic in 2020. no. it got trump elected. wasn't necessarily paying influencers but bringing them into his circle posting on his behalf and he claps back at twitter, become a meme himself. i don't know. bloomberg is taking a very paid approach. actually you mentioned -- >> walk us through that a little. >> paying groups of memers to post these -- >> memers? >> people who post, tens of millions. >> wow. >> spending $1 billion on

facebook ads, reported by nbc, and out there every few minutes posting and aggressive, has an aggressive online army. [ bleep bloomberg is doing the same thing. responding to trump on twitter and paying people to post for him. >> i take that to, we're going to ping-pong between young people and the very much-needed african-american vote. bring the reverend into the conversation. what, sir, are your personal feelings towards the presidential candidacy of michael bloomberg, his legacy and also his now run for president, as pertains to african-american voters? >> first of all, thank you, mika. our past policies have to have an impact on our current support, and for instance, stop and frisk. thousands and thousands of people were hurt and disenfranchised by a policy that was racist, and also based on

unsubstantialated numbers. i think numbers, something like 90%, 95% of the murders. those numbers are not even right. here's a deeper question. the apology is great, but what was, caused the formation of the policy in the first place? and is that still his thinking on policy when it comes to african-americans? these questions must be answered, and bigger than stop and frisk. what about voter suppression? what about 26 million people, 61% of african-americans living in poverty and low wealth? what about resegregation of public schools? what about voter suppression and where i am in north carolina we fought for same-day registration early voter. where are his positions on those things? we have to do a deep dive, not just a one dive into the black community and issues that impact black people. i think that has to happen and has to happen soon. >> the reverend brings up a great point but just like joe biden with the crime bill in '94.

you know where joe biden was in his heart. the more you dig and dive you'll see a guy who's an inclusive progressive guy. back to the memes thing also. trump has a digital machine. a monstrous machine, and that's what bloomberg has. mika, i want to go back to the, instead of villainizing him, for having so much money, and as opposed to trump who was handed money and blew it, built, by himself from scratch, to become i think the 20th richest person in the country. if he has the resources and the wherewithal and smarts to beam donald trump, god bless him. i'm not holding that against him. we need that. i love mayor pete and klobuchar and biden, i don't know if they have the machine, the power to beat this dictatorial mon sisters in the white house. >> mika -- >> instead of working against that, maybe say it's a benefit? >> reverend, jump in.

>> yeah. you have to be careful who can beat who. we don't know that yet. what i'm saying is, it's not about who can beat who. not about an endorsement. you can't limit the black community to just criminal justice. you have to deal with the issue and know it's in people's hearts because policy represents heart. that question has to be answered. it must go deeper talking about african-american people. 26 million, 61% of african-americans live in poverty and low wealth. where do you stand there? voter suppression. let voting with gutting of voting rights act that in 1965. as president where does he stand? with other minorities, the native americans, indigenous community and prejudices against them? all of these issues must be dealt with. where is he on the war economies. poorp and black people and minorities hurt more when it comes to war and the money we spend on war that we don't put back in our communities. we need a deep dive on every one of these candidates. >> right. >> it can't just be an apology

and a matter of the heart. we must look at the heart of policy. >> jeremy peters, covering the campaign. what's it looking like on the ground? >> well, what was interesting last night, mika, is at this initiative, the bloomberg campaign launched, mike for black america which is intentional it's mike for black america instead of black america for mike because the campaign doesn't want to be sounding too presumptuous in an, "i'm with her" way. what i heard last night from mayor bloomberg was the type of contrition often lacking from some of this comments in the past. he has been reluctant to express real regret for this when pressed about it. earlier this week he gave kind of a ham-handed answer in explaining why he supported the stop and frisk policy. he, last night in front of an audience of several hundred african-americans in houston really i think connected with the crowd in a way that i don't

know i really expected to see. i spent a lot of time talking to people before and after the event, and i've got to say that what i heard from them, tracks with the bloomberg campaign's internal polling saying he's pulled about even with joe biden in terms of african-american support. not only that, mika, but the reason that they're supporting him, or at least considering leaning towards voting for him, is they think that he can beat trump. that is such a paramount concern with voters i've spoken with. they want to make sure there is not a second term for donald trump and look at mike bloomberg and say, you know what? he can probably do this, but you know what? joe biden can't. not after the performance we've seen from him in the last few weeks and their support for biden has really, really faded. >> hmm. katty? >> by the way, the memes seem to be having some impact on younger voters, because yesterday both

my 25-year-old son and 23-year-old daughter were sending me bloomberg memes. whether it's cheesy or not they're noticing. it's actually getting their attention. >> katty, jump in. mika asked what is a meme? >> mika, we'll go out-o of air d have a discussion about memes. it will be good. one thing i'm hearing, jeremy, have you been hearing this? debate in the bloomberg campaign conscience he's a boring speaker not great on the stump. one advisers to bloomberg yesterday suggesting to me, maybe he skips debates altogether. maybe not just democratic debates but were he to become the nominee, why just say i'm not going to debate trump? why give trump the free air time, which trump would love. right? he loves that format. why put himself in the position of being up there when he's not very good at it. carry on with the shock and awe campaign of appetizing, narrative getting out as he

wants to get it out? yeah. i do think it's right that he is rusty at this. that's what they've spent the last few weeks, six weeks doing. trying to work out some of those kinks in his stump speech, in his interaction and rapport with voters. he's getting better at it but it's not all smooth sailing, i will say. i would say skipping the debates would be a real risk for him. he needs that exposure and it would really undercut his case he could beat trump. trump would say, afraid to stand next to me on the stage. >> michael steele, a memer, jump in. >> i love the memes. a couple things. for heavens sakes the man ran for mayor three times. he knows how to do debates. can do debates. people know what he's doing. i think he'll be fine on the front. i'm more interested whether or not donald trump signs up to do debates as a presidential candidate this fall. the one i'm watching. i think, go back to the reverend's point, which is in,

essentially important one, but jux juxtaposed of the expression that while there is a real concern concern about where these individuals are standing on some very important issues for african-americans particular as as has been raised by black women over the last year, there is also this pragmatic issue of can we just get him out and we'll double back on these individuals. and, rev republicerend, i think the rub here. they're not looking at these other candidates who have been in this fight for over a year.

they've moved to someone who they've had some suspicions about. how do you assess that sort of rub within the community itself right now? >> first, 100 million people didn't vote in the last election. millions and millions of african-americans did not vote. you have to have a vigorous debate to make sure you don't get tripped up later on. and one of the things that we say about bloomberg is with slavery, with any policy that was bad, civil rights or segregation, what do you do with the thousands of people that were impacted by this bad policy? you can't just say i apologize. what is the plan? how do you have restoration for the thousands of people and then how do you go deeper? we cannot limit the african-american understanding of politics and how we address politicians in just one area.

and so what we're arguing is you have to deal with all of the issues, black people are looking at all of them and poverty and low wealth is critical. 61% of african-americans live in poverty and low wealth. expand the electorate. and we have to have that conversation. you can't leave it off the table. and i still think it's too early. i think people are still moving back and forth. i'm hearing a lot of people saying they want to crisscross this country. those issues dealt with the economic issue, the criminal justice issue, the health care issue, the voting rights issues. let's hear on all the issues that impact black people, poor white people and let's have a full thorough going of his positions and we can't merely say i'm sorry for a past policy and not talk about how do i restore those people who were hurt. >> totally agree.

and as we close, go back to the social media angle, mike bloomberg taylor, do you have a snap chat filter? >> no, he doesn't. >> and does he use emojis? >> not as far as i -- >> what? a talking one, he doesn't have one? >> no. >> how about gifs, does he use gifs? >> i believe he does. >> did he have a gif of him shaking the dog's head? >> i know what a gif is. it's like over and over again. but you know what? you said there are memeers? >> yeah. there are people that run highly influential meme acts with tens and millions of followers. for bernie sanders, they're speaking out organically. they're not asking for money. >> organic memeers, that's what you're going for. is there an app that gets young people to vote? i'm looking for that one. >> it's called instagram. >> okay. thank you all. rev rant barber, thank you so

much, as well. and still ahead, what looks like another quid pro quo by president trump. it's not about a foreign country this time or a campaign rival. instead, it's about new york and the state's lawsuits against him. plus, attorney general bill barr tries to reassert the justice department's independence by talking tough about the president, but not everyone is convinced. i'm certainly not. also coming up, republican congressman jim jordan is once again denying claims that he knew wrestlers were being sexually abused by the team doctor when he was assistant coach at ohio state university and did nothing about it. we're going to play the testimony that put the story back in the headlines, ahead on "morning joe." nes, ahead on "morning joe." as a struggling actor,

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is afraid of us and that's why he keeps tweeting all the time. if he doesn't mention you, you have a big problem. >> bloomberg came in and he multiplied it times ten. if you were a black person walking down the street, you were going to be stopped and frisked under bloomberg. >> there are still a half dozen democrats running for president, but right now, donald trump is focused on mike bloomberg. and vice versa. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, february 14th. it's valentine's day. don't you guys remember? with us, we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lamere. do you remember? you better not mess this up. >> happy valentine's day. >> oh, thank you. but i'm thinking of your wife. you need to bring flowers. msnbc analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. did you remember, michael? >> i'm working on it. >> oh, boy. his story and author of "the soul of america" and rogers professor at vanderbilt

university jon meacham is joining us. he just ran out the door to get some flowers. and former u.s. attorney now an nbc news law enforcement analyst chuck rosenberg who i know remembered and former justice department spokesman, now an msnbc justice security analyst matt miller is with us. joe is away with his kids for this presidents day weekend. willie is taking a well deserved morning off. and i'm here on valentine's day. okay. we begin with what appears to be another instance of quid pro quo by president trump. there's a lot to get to, so we're just diving in. it's the same issue that got him impeached in the first place. president trump put out a tweet that appeared to link his administration's decision to freeze new york's access to the trusted travelers program with a demand that the state drop a myriad of lawsuits against him and his administration. he's just doing it in plain

sight. why not, right? he wrote this. i'm seeing governor cuomo today at the white house and he must understand that national security far exceeds politics. new york must stop all of its unnecessary lawsuits and harassment, start cleaning itself up and lowering taxes. new york's attorney jarl has issued a subpoena for trump's financial records and has filed a number of lawsuits against the trump administration and the trump organization. she responded to the president's tweet writing, when you stop violating the rights and liberties of all new yorkers, we will stand down. until then, we have a duty and responsibility to defend the constitution and the rule of law. by the way, i filed the lawsuits, not the governor. gosh, i'm just wondering, it's just so weird what you see happening here. i wonder if anyone could have

seen this coming. hakim jeffries from just two weeks ago. >> what we have alleged in this case is that the president solicited a personal political benefit in exchange for an official act. solicited dirt on a political opponent. in exchange for the release of $391 million in military aid. solicited dirt in exchange for a white house meeting. and if this senate were to say that's acceptable, then precisely as was outlined in that selection could take place all across america in the context of the next election and any election. grants allocated to cities or towns or municipalities across the country. but the president could say you're not going to get that

money, mr. mayor, mrs. county executive, mrs. town supervisor, unless you endorse me. for re-election. the president can say that to any governor of our 50 states. that is unacceptable. that cannot be allowed to happen in our democratic republic. >> chuck rosenberg, it seems so ludicrous when hakim jeffries made that example of what potentially could happen. yet as of yesterday, it has. what's the recourse? what is your take moving forward? >> first of all, it's not that hard to predict that the president will be a illogical and petulant. by the way, i don't know if you can put his tweet back up, but there is a ranking consistency within it. first, he says that national security is much more important

than politics and the very next sentence there is the rank politics, right? after talking about national security, there comes the threat. if he doesn't get what he wants, a cessation to the lawsuits that have been filed against him and his organizations by new york state, then he's going to exact revenge. mr. jeffries was spot on. i'll give him some credit for that. but this has been a pattern that we have seen over and over and over again and i think it's deeply disturbing. >> so jonathan lamere, so much has happened. we started with this. there are many other things that happened yesterday that we could have started with. given the attorney general's comments later in the day, which we'll get to. but we've got a situation now where the president's appearing to be issuing quid pro quos in realtime on twitter. what are you hearing from the white house and from your sources in washington? >> yeah. but he's doing so in plain sight. there is veblths very littry li

cover this. we know the president has had contention with the new york government. in addition to what's going on in the house of representatives. so that is something that the president has been irritated about for a while. let's recall, of course, the state of new york is now in florida, in part because of how upset he was because of how things were going on. it's exactly the representative jeffries plight, this seems to be a quid pro quo offer right in front. he took away this program. he's now suggesting he's trying to put it back on the table. if these investigations stop and he gets a cheap shot at his brother while he's at it. now, the governor, there was no deal struck yesterday from what we've heard. certainly, letitia james, the attorney general here in new york spoke out against it. but this is a window into how the president is feeling right now post impeachment, completely

unboldened, unchecked. we saw what happened in the few days after that verdict. lieutenant colonel vinman marched out of the white house in front of the camera. ambassador sondland relieved of his duties. he's weighed in on the roger stone sentence which we'll get to in a moment. he's come out stronger than ever because no one in the republican party, except for mitt romney, dare stand up to him. >> so we've seen a pattern here and michael steele, it's the president can't take a win. he can't take a win when he has gotten his way, when he's gotten through something, he can't take a win. he actually doubles down and gets worse. which leads me to susan collins, i believe, saying, well, i believe the president has learned a lesson. well, no, he's doing it again in plain sight. the republicans owned this, but do they care? >> no, they don't. and, you know, in a large measure because, you know,

they've saddled up with the president in terms of, you know, the way all of these things play out. you know, on the first part of this, you know, you get on the other side of impeachment and what you see is the president now wanting to exact his revenge. and he doesn't -- he wants to settle the score. this is not over until he says it's over, until he feels that he's made his point after those, you know, you perceive as coming after him have done so. republicans still sit there stoo stymied by the whole thing. the president doesn't learn anything from these exercises, as he sees them. he sets his own course. as i've said before, the important thing, mika, is what do we learn from it? what do we get away from this? that is the important part of this. we know trump is not going to learn anything because he doesn't want to.

he's set his course's mind in a certain direction. so what are we taking away from this and what will be our next move as government, as citizens, as the state of new york, and how do we now adapt on this playing field, if you will, to what the president is doing with the -- you know, the perp walks of career soldiers from service, etcetera. still ahead on "morning joe," judges, prosecutors and now a juror. president trump hits the trifecta in attacking american juris prudence. juris prudence if you looked at america like a bird. and that was all you knew, would you really understand it, with just that point of view? we've got a different way to look at it, from right here on the ground. we don't just the united states we see united towns.

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[ fast-paced drumming ] president trump has now attacked the lead juror in the

case that ended with his friend, roger stone's conviction. trump tweeted, quote, now it looks like the foreperson in the jury in the roger stone case had significant bias. add that to everything else and this is not looking good for the, quote, justice department. the attack came after mika hart identified herself as the lead juror in a facebook post. she said she's been silence since the november 2019 conviction out of concern for her safety, but decided to speak out in defense of the four prosecutors who quit the case after the department of justice overrode their recommendation. hart defended her own work. as foreperson, i made sure we went through every element of every charge matching the evidence that presented the case that led us to return a

conviction of guilty on all seven counts. since identifying herself, the president's allies in the media have dredged up old social media posts they claim to show bias. hart did run for congress as a democrat in 2012, but stone's defense knew that when they cleared her to serve on the jury. meanwhile, the chief justice in washington issued a rare public response to trump's attacks. the judges of this court base their sentencing decisions on careful consideration of the actual record in the case before them. the applicable sentencing guidelines and statutory factors. the submissions of the parties, the probation office and victims and their own judgment and experience. public criticism or pressure is not a factser. let's stop right here. chuck rosenberg, i want to hear your thoughts. >> first of all, judge howell is

spot on. i am not concerned, mika, that in this particular case the outcome of the sentencing will be unfair. in fact, judge jackson is a well respected jurorist. she's smart and she's tough. it will be a fair outcome. what worries me is that the perception of the outcome will be fair. the department of justice has to do two things. objectively fair and perceived as fair. when the president weighs in on a case about a friend of his and asks the justice department to do a particular thing, which it then does, that goes to the perception of fairness. we heard from chief justice roberts. they have spoken out about the men and women who comprise judges across the country, how they don't succumb to pressure and how this things doesn't work. so the president put the judge in a terrible situation because it either looks like she's capitulating to the president if she sentences mr. stone lower

than the guidelines call for or that she's she's rebuffing him if she does not. she's going to be just and she's going on be fair. the outcome will be fair. i worry about the perception. coming up on "morning joe," jon meacham says he's been watching two clear lines that, if crossed, would amount to the unraveling of an american democracy. meachum describes those breaking points next on "morning joe." eag points next on "morning joe. when you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one.

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the attorney general saying in a new interview with abc news that the president's comments and tweets make it, quote, impossible for him to do his job. william barr insists he was not asked by the president or anyone from the white house to inter convenient in the stone case. barr says he spoke to the u.s. attorney before the sentencing memo was turned in. and advised him not to recommend a seven to nine-year prison sentence. but instead, to defer to the judge. here is what the attorney

general says happened after claiming the u.s. attorney defied him. >> a monday night, when i first saw the news reports, i said, gee, the news is spinning this. this is not what we were going to do. >> so you were surprised. >> i was very surprised. once i confirmed that that is actually what we filed, i said that night to my staff because we had to do something in the morning to amend that and clarify when our position was. i had made a decision that i thought was fair and reasonable in this particular case. and once the tweet occurred, the question is, well, now what do i do? and do you go forward with what you think is the right decision or do you pull back because of the tweet? and that illustrates how disruptive these tweets can be. >> so you're saying you have a problem with the tweets? >> yes. well, i have a problem with some of the tweets.

i'm happy to say that, in fact, the president has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case. however, to have public statements and tweets made about the department, about the people in the department, our men and women here, about cases pending in the department and about judges before whom we have cases, make it impossible for me to do my job. >> the white house press secretary released this statement in a response. the president wasn't bothered by the comments at all and he has the right, just like any american citizen, to publicly offer his opinions. president trump uses social media to fight for the american people against injustices in our country, including the fake news. the president has full faith and confidence in attorney general barr to do his job and uphold

the law. okay. matt miller, you know, thinking about these comments, which, you know, seem to push back against the president at first. it's like, whoa, what's going on here, is he stepping away a little bit? is he a little bruised by all the criticism he's gotten because the legal community in washington is so tight? but it seems to me that what he's saying is that these tweets make it harder for bill barr to help him be corrupt. what is your gut? >> bill barr has the way of saying all the words you want out of an attorney general. that's exactly what we always wanted to hear from jeff sessions. we wanted to see him pushing back against the president's attacks on the justice department. the problem with barr is his words about independence, the fact that he can't be bullied and the fact that he's going to do what's right are never backed up by his actions. so when i see him yesterday,

what i hear is when he says you're making it impossible for me to do my job, he means you're not giving me the political spate to operate to do all the things you wanted me to do, donald trump. barr has made it very clear that his interests and the president's interests are aligned. he will squash investigations into the president when he can. he will launch investigations into jim comey. but he needs the president to shut up and stop talking about it publicly. i suspect what barr was doing yesterday was to try to start this when full prosecutors removed their names.

i will give you what you want, but you have to give me the space i need. >> the white house so far speaking with one voice, insisting that he's not upset by these comments. which may be if this is, indeed, the play that we just described. but we also know the president doesn't react well to negative media coverage. it's more that we see barr's comments played over and over in the next few days, i think we might be hearing from him. in the white house statement, they said the president, like any american, has the right to voice his opinion. is he the president like any american? and if he's not, why is this so inconsequential? and you wonder which editor added and fake news. it sort of has that feel, doesn't it? the remarkable thing about the president is his capacity to and it's epic even in presidential

terms his encyclopedic grasp of grudges and his ability to hold them and weaponize them going forward. this is john kelly this week, right, remembering a conversation. congresswoman dingel who he alleges they had this phone call about chairman dingle's funeral. there is this remarkable internal taping system that spews out everything the world as he wants to see it. and he's not just like every other citizen, to go straight to your point. john adams in 1790 wrote that the president, the first character was going to be the object of all eyes, the object of all attention. and that creates an enormous responsibility. but at this point, we're so far into this, we know that the presidency is not going to change him. for us, to michael's point, it's

all on us in a large measure and those republicans to decide whether he's changed the presidency itself and whether he's changed our public culture forever. i've been basically optimistic for almost four years now. i would take james madison over twitter. i'm less so now as things go on. there are a number of republicans i thought would stand up at the last possible moment and say enough. as you played the statement, you have this remarkable moment where the train is blowing past, rapidly, and what folks are going to have to decide at a certain point is do you want a president picking on judges trying to change cases? the two things, my two check boxes that we're going be

breaking glass kind of emergency eggs, we're going to be was he going to try to remove a judge, was he ever going to try to overturn a verdict and would he try to postpone an election. these are the two things to watch out for. and he's getting awfully close on the first. >> would he ever do a, b or c, the answer is yes. it's up to republicans to decide how much can you live with. coming up, we put together a piece on the spread of the coronavirus and the critical things you need to know. dr. dave campbell has the story next on "morning joe." campbell next on "morning joe." let's be honest,

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trump's 2016 presidential campaign is returning to the white house to work with trump's son-in-law and senior adviser, jared kushner. a former white house official says hicks' title is expected to be counselor to the president and her new responsibilities will include the 2020 re-election campaign. >> on help hicks has always been one of the president's most trusted confidants. she had gone out west to work for fox for a time. her return was always sort of anticipated. the thought had been she might do more in an unofficial capacity, but she'll be back in the white house and this is interpreted as jared kushner solidifying his power base in the west wing. >> the senate passed a bipartisan resolution to limit president trump's ability to order action against iran without first seeking congressional approval. eight republicans joined democrats in voting for the measure, 55-45 despite trump

warning lawmakers would show weakness to iran. caddie kay, your take. >> this is still congress trying to bring back some control. it's rare that eight republicans defy the president and cross party lines, but there isn't a veto proof majority here. so the president, should he want to do something like he did killing seooleimani, he's made clear he will do it. >> according to a notice sent to congress yesterday, the move would mark the second year in a row the trump administration has diverted money to build additional sections of the barrier. the president has defended the national declaration at the border. the country said the country's national security is being

threatened at the border with the flow of narcotics and criminals crossing into the united states. michael. >> yeah. it sounds good on paper, but the reality is this is not going down well with a lot of republicans on the hill, including armed services ranking member mac thornberry who said this type of action goes outside of congressional authority. so i think you're going to be looking for and hearing a number of republicans speaking up a little bit more on this. because there is that constitutional threat they like to keep tethered to them and the president is trying hard to cut it with this border policy. and now this, ohio congressman jim jordan has been accused of turning a blind eye to the sexual abuse of male wrestlers at ohio state university by the late team doctor richard straus who has been accused of sexually assaulting hundreds of athletes at the school between 1979 to

1998. now during a public hearing on tuesday over a bill that would allow for victims to sue the university, the brother of the osu whistle-blower adam desabado told the committee that jordan and other team officials knew about the sexual harassment and abuse of the wrestlers. desabado went on is far as to claim congressman jordan was part of a cover up. >> jim jordan called me crying, crying. groveling. on the fourth of july begging me to go against my brother. begging me. crying for a half hour. that is the kind of cover ups that go on there. >> jordan served as the assistant wrestling coach at

ohio state from 1986 to 1994. and has denied any allegations that he knew about straus' actions. on wednesday, jordan's spokesman called it another lie and said that he never saw or heard of any abuse and if he had, he would have dealt with it. jonathan lamere. >> let's recall there's testimony that when jordan was apprised of these allegations he dismissed it saying, well, that's straus. this is a story that is not going away. >> is it clear he knew about it? >> he is denying it. there's a number of witnesses that said he did. these are disturbing allegations if they are true. this is a spotlight still remaining on the congressman that he's going to have to face further questions on this. there will be more pressure for him to speak candidly about what he did. >> now to the concerning new development with the coronavirus, that the number of cases just in mainland china has surged past 63,000 with more

than 5,000 new cases reported in just the last 24 hours. the increase comes after authorities began using a broader definition and diagnosing people, which is believed to account for much of the increase in cases. the chinese government is now seeking plasma from surviving coronavirus patients in hopes of developing a new treatment to control the spread of the virus. "morning joe's" medical contributor dr. dave campbell spoke to local officials in new york city to see what preventive measures they are taking to combat a potential outbreak here. >> now, the virus that we're talking about having to do, a lot of people think that goes away in april with the heat, as the heat comes in. typically that will go away in april. we're in great shape. >> president trump floated a theory that by april when it warms up miraculously the coronavirus may go away. >> i think it's dangerous for

any of us in public life to pretend to replace the doctors who know best and to put our theories that might, in fact, cause people to underestimate the problem. >> bring us up to date on where we are in new york city with preparation and prevention for the novel coronavirus. >> we do not know exactly how people get this. we don't know the full effect of it. but i'll tell you something, we have an extraordinary public health apparatus here in new york city. and what became clear to me was it was about telling the people of our city, this is something we can handle, but you have to follow some basic rules. >> we checked in with those health officials to see how the looming threat of a coronavirus outbreak has affected their day-to-day responsibilities. >> what is the average new yorker need to know about the coronavirus here and now? >> the risk to new yorkers is still very low. but the city is prepared and very prepared to respond if it escalates. >> the president put out a

proclamation to quarantine all individuals coming in from the hubai province for 14 days and the rest of mainland china that would be doing inhome warn teen. what i have been doing so support the department of health is we have identified a facility where we can transport passengers. and then we put together and helped device a plan to support the wrap around services. laundry, feeding, anything they might need while in that quarantine situation. >>. >> the coronavirus is part of a family of known viruses. there are four strains that we see commonly here in new york city and across the country that caused the flu. that's the symptoms can be very familiar. if you've had travel to the effected areas in china and you're not feeling well and you've returned within the last 14 days, call your health care provider and get tested.

>> what does the mask do? is it protecting the person? and how does it do that? >> having a mask in place doesn't protect them, but it keeps them from spreading the virus to honors. >> how are you helping new yorkers prevent the stigma that is attached to this infection? >> this outbreak is because of a virus. it's not because of a group of people. fear is not an excuse for spreading bigotry and spreading misinformation. >> finally, we spoke to dr. medad who discussed how government support or the lack thereof afbfects reserve, response and reserve for outbreaks. >> china knocked down a lot of its borders and the united states is doing that to a certain extent. what is the logic there? will that work? >> historically, we've seen that these types of travel bans and restrictions have not worked because one of the things that we don't want to do is take away

the public trust. so if folks are fearful of coming forward, it gets harder for public health to do tracing. >> tell us about anti-viral medications that could treat the disease, but aren't readily available. >> it's one of those games of is there a market for it. so there needs to be political will and financial support. >> could we prevent future epidemics, future pathogens? >> these types of events are natural. but we can lower the toll it takes on countries in general and we're able to respond faster, better and more efficiently. >> this should not stop you from going about your life, should not stop you from going to chinatown and go out to eat. i'm going to do that myself. but we have to assume this virus

will be with us for a long time. all right. thank you, dr. dave campbell. so let's bring in dr. hotez, the dean of the national school of tropical medicine and professor of pediatrics and molecular viralology and microbiology at baylor college of medicine. thank you very much for being on the show and we appreciate your expertise. you just got back from a big conference looking at this very issue. on a grand scale, where does the coronavirus stand in terms of efforts to contain it? >> well, first of all, thanks for having me on. you know, right now, china is still in free fall. we're looking at a very dire situation in wuhan and central china, really horrific stories of forced quarantine and also a lot of health care workers, new

reports a thousand health care workers in wuhan are affected. and so the chinese are working hard to contain this within wuhan or hubai province. but that's a huge area and we don't know if they're going to be successful. that's problem number one. problem number two is the fact that we've got a number of countries around china with weak health systems and are very worried about the rye advise goi -- virus going there. i'm thinking about north korea, laos, cambodia. so this is of grave concern. and then there's 1 million to 3 million chinese working in and out of africa right now through president's xi initiative. this is why the public health emergency is declared of national concern. he's less worried about new york and europe, but he's really worried about things taking off in these place that's don't have

the capacity to manage it. quarantine came from ships in croatia, docked in the harbor for 40 days or we just heard about using plasma from infected patients. that was used in the 1918 flu pandemic. so this is a real problem that we've not had good global governance to develop the technologies that were needed. a lt of this could have been presented if we have the vaccines and the diagnostics ready to go. >> doctor, i know there is some question mark about the veracity of the chinese numbers, whether we can actually trust them. but i've spoke to several immunologyists that actually tell me the president might be right, that as we get into the warmer spring weather, there would be a natural tendency for this virus to taper off. do you think we're getting towards the point where we can say the numbers have stabilized?

>> i don't think we're there yet. indeed, the president might be right, but he might not. it's a new virus agent. historically, there are some coronavirus strains that peak around winter and drop off, but -- and that may happen in this case. it may not. wells don't know about the tropical areas in the southern hemisphere. remember, things like influenza are actually inverted. so the point is, we can't rely on that in any means and what we need to focus on now is accelerating better diagnostics. we learned the ones used in china may be only 30% to 40% accurate. we actually developed a vaccine for sars. it was manufactured in 2016 and it looks pretty similar, it could cross protect against this coronavirus. but back in 2016, we couldn't get anybody to say that this is an important vaccine to have and therefore the clinical trials

were never used. and this is an example of where we don't have adequate national cooperation to advance these technologies. no one country can do it all. and we need a level of global governance. that is not there right now. >> dr. peter hotez, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. and let's turn now to cnbc's sara eisen. sara, what have been the economic impacts of the coronavirus outbreak? >> good morning, mika. certainly the fallout economically is piling up around the world. remember, china is the world's second biggest economy. it is globally interconnected as the world's supply chain and a key source of demand for companies including in the u.s. economists are now saying that chinese growth in the first three months of the year could go from over 6% and grind to a complete halt, 1%, maybe even zero percent. so that is likely to be felt.

i'll give you an example of how american companies are feeling about it and dealing with it. united airlines and american airlines just came out and said they are going the stop flights until april 24th into china, longer than expected. it's going be a hit, to not just that industry, but to tourism in the united states and travel. fact territory production, key, all the automakers have warned about this. nissan, a japanese automaker warned it had to shut down a japanese plant because it was having trouble sourcing parts from china. now, we are told that a lot of the factories are trying to come back online this week, but it is still far from business as usual as workers remain home. ralph lauren, the luxury retail sector, another key area that is feeling it here in this country, fought just on the supply side because they get a lot of the clothing and shoes made in china, but all those stores. china was a key growth market. a lot of them, u.s. brands,

remain shut in china. so it will have ripple effects. wall street, though, not worried about it. they're assuming it will be a v-shaped recovery, that the activity is going to come back and we continue to see record highs here in the markets. >> sara eisen, thank you very much. as we go to break, a look at what willie has coming up on sunday today. i sat down with the very funny john molaney, who is hosting "snl" for the third time later this month. catch willie's "sunday sitdown" . >> this guy being the president, it's like there's a horse loose in the hospital. it's like there's a horse loose in a hospital. i think eventually everything is going to be okay, but i have no idea what is going to happen next. what is going to happen next

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just as we believe in the first amendment, we also believe in another constitutional right that's under siege all across our country. so long as i am president, i will always protect your second amendment right to keep and bear arms. in reaffirming our heritage as a free nation. >> the voice you heard there was

fred gottenburg, father of a parkland victim, he was later removed from the chamber after that moment, he was asking what about my daughter. today marks the heartbreaking two year anniversary if you can believe it since 17 people were murdered. in a mass shooting, he lost his daughter. fred, i'll ask you to try to answer the question. i'm worried there woen't be one but what about your daughter? is anyone hearing you? >> mika, 100% people are what happened at the state of the union, in a crazy way, left me unbelievably inspired by the reality that people are hearing

me because the next day people were talking about gun violence because of what happened. people across this country were talking about supporting me or other victims of gun violence because of what happened. you know, listen, two years ago from this very hour my daughter was still alive. two years ago from this very hour i was planning our valentine's day for that evening. so while our president may stand on a stage and be the megaphone for the gun lobby which he was doing that night, those of us, 90% of this country that says they want to do more who are voting for people, who are going to do more leave me inspired about where we're going in the future, not pessimistic. today is a day many people are

going to celebrate love. my advice to everybody today is don't make today a special day about celebrating love. do it every chance you get. tell those who you love how much you love them. look them in the eye as if it could be the very last time, and promise me you're going to show up at the polls and vote for jamie and the other victims of gun violence. >> voting for jamie. let's talk about jamie. she's 14. she's so beautiful. so vibrant. >> she was. >> what are the memories that flow through your mind when you're going through the day and making your way to washington and around the country to talk about this, what are the memories that stay with you? >> you know, while there's memories of jamie in life and then there's also jamie's last

minute. jamie's laughter, jamie's silliness, jamie's toughness, jamie's smile, it is in my head. it never leaves there. but it's also been joined by jamie's last minute. and i can't get out of my head thinking about what my daughter felt in that last minute knowing she was running for her life from an active shooter and wondering did she know it when she was shot, did she suffer even for a second. and because i don't know what my daughter felt i will never stop fighting to keep somebody else from having that pain in their heart that i have today. listen, my daughter is with me every second of every day going forward. it took me awhile to get to a place i could say this.

jamie was not my daughter, jamie is my daughter. i can't think of it in the past tense. i am still a father of two children, always reacting to what happened to one child, happened to both my children, thank god one of them came home, and i am a father who will never stop being able to do this because there's too many americans who are being effected by what happened to me as well. and together we need to beat this lobby. we need to show americans their right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness are worth the fight, and we're going to get this done. >> we have just a few moments left in the show. i'm going to give them to you. what would you like to say to viewers out there who perhaps don't think enough about what it would be like to have a child that had a last moment like

that. >> you know, as a dad i had all the normal dreams that a dad of two would have and they weren't the same for each of my kids. for jamie, i dreamt about her first boyfriend, what i would do and the kind of harassment i would have with her and her first boyfriend. it was my right. i dreamt about teaching her to drive. i tredreamt about her graduatin getting her first job. jamie knew what she wanted to do when she grew up. she was going to be a pediatric physical therapist. wanted to work at the paly institute where they do surgery on kids with deformities. wanted to be married by the time she was 25. i dreamt of walking my child down the island, being a grand parent to her children. what i want to tell everybody in

my last minute, every single person you love, think about what it would be to think of them in only memories and not be able to live your dreams with that person and understand why i do what i do today, and understand why the life of those you love is worth the fight and join me, get out there and vote and fire mitch mcconnell from the senate because he refuses to pass the legislation that's already sitting there waiting to go to the president for a signature and he won't let it happen. he has chosen to stand idly by. my family's life is worth it, so is yours. >> fred, thank you so much for using your voice. hope to have you back on the show soon. thank you. >> mika, thank you so much. i appreciate you. >> that's where we leave things

for the week. it has been quite a week. i am hoping everybody takes a look at that interview, maybe watches it again, looks at what they have and what they might be able to do as well. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thank you so much, mika. i am stephanie ruhle. it is friday, february 14th. today we're focused on attorney general bill barr's uphill battle to put some distance between himself and this president's white house. here's what barr and the majority leader mitch mcconnell had to say about the president's habit of weighing in on legal cases like roger stone. >> i cannot do my job here at the department with constant background commentary that undercuts me. the fact that tweets are out there and correspond to things we're doing at the department that give grist to the