sunday morning with us. i'm lindsay alongside kendis. "velshi" starts now. 36 delegates at stake in nevada and the candidates first challenge in an ethically diverse state. red lining started in 1934, but in 2008, bloomberg said ending the discriminatory practice caused the financial crisis. and one billion giga bites of data. that's what facebook is handing over to researchers. how useful will it really be? "velshi" starts now. >> good morning. i'm ali velshi from msnbc world headquarters in new york. we begin on the campaign trail where eight delegates remain hope to take on donald trump for the presidency come november. you wouldn't quite know that from listening to some of the candidatesory their surrogates actually do and say on the campaign. the next hurdle of the

nomination process is the nevada caucuses. they got under way yesterday with early voting. 36 delegates are available to be won during this week's caucuses. it's a mere fraction of the 1,991 necessary to secure the democratic mominati iic nominat first ballot. >> speaker pelosi and the majority of democrats don't like medicare for all plan. unions, workers in nevada aren't for it. how in god's name do you expect to pass it. >> in the middle of the country where i'm from, i want to see a little more nevada out there. my plan is to build a beautiful blue wall of democratic votes around those states and make donald trump pay for it. so, how do we do it? how do we do it? we vote. >> some folks say why would you have a mayor become president? to me, that's very much the point. as a mayor, you have to get things done. it's different from washington.

we need to bring that attitude to washington instead of the other way around. >> why do you think it's important for women to run for president? >> it's not only important that women run for president, it's important that women get elected president. >> also this morning, reaction to speculation from the drudge report that floated the possibility of michael bloomberg considering hillary clinton as a potential running mate. we are focused on the primary and the debate, not vp speculation. which you'll notice is not a straight up denial. as for mrs. clinton, she did not immediately respond to her request for comment. with us this morning, michael tomalski, alexia, political reporter with axios and political strategy, a senior fellow at third way and a senior adviser at donors of color network. welcome to all of you. thank you for joining us this

morning. alexia, let me start with you. what did you make of it when you saw that drudge report that michael bloomberg might be considering hillary clinton as vice president? a, i don't know what that would do for michael bloomberg, but, b, is that something hillary clinton would think about? >> well, as you pointed out on the record statement from the campaign was not an outright denial, so, it seems as though this is something that has come from the bloomberg campaign, although i have not confirmed that. there's a number of questions around what that might do for someone like michael bloomberg. the democratic party in 2020 has mixed feelings about hillary clinton now, especially after everything that she had to go through and went through publicly in 2016. i mean, people still feel this sort of tribalism within the party that bernie sanders versus hillary clinton wings of the party so to speak that i think it might add questions of vulnerability to bloomberg's campaign if he added someone like hillary clinton to his ticket in 2020, when so many other women who ran in this primary so far as democrats who

could be tapped for a potential vp pick. >> what do you think? >> i mean, i work for hillary clinton at the state department. i volunteered for her campaign and i think she's a fantastic, you know, american. but i agree with alexi. i think there are so many wonderful women and particularly women of color who would make an excellent vice presidential candidate for any of these candidates. somebody like stacy abrams who almost basically did win her governor seat in georgia where we have two open senate seats in november would be a particularly strong candidate. i think a candidate of color on the ticket and a woman on the ticket. so, i think these are, you know, decisions that we have to make once we have a nominee. >> michael, let's talk about nevada coming up. i want to tell our viewers. if you look at the balm right-hand corner of your screen, you're looking at videos

of yokohama, japan, they're looking to evacuate a few hundred americans off of the cruise ship. we have janis standing by in yokohama. i'll keep that in the bottom of the screen. a lot of people coming off that cruise ship, it could take a long time. we'll keep a very close eye on that this morning, including questions about where those americans go once they get off that ship. they still will be held in quarantine. let me get back to you, michael. nevada is on saturday. i want to remind people. it is not a big catch of delegates. you need 1,991 delegates to win on the first ballot. you're still only going to have a portion of them after nevada, but a different kind of challenge than iowa and new hampshire bases, including the fact that it's more ethnically diverse candidate and a lot of union influence. we saw that with the culinary union throwing some shade on bernieen sanders and elizabeth warren's endorsement of medicare for all.

>> yes. and it's very simple. the workers in the culinary unions have a great health care plan with the private insurance company and they've negotiated that and taken that in lieu of wages. so, it's very important to them. medicare for all, at least as sanders describes it, not necessarily as warren describes it at least immediately. but as sanders describes it would do away with all private insurers so it would do away with their health care plan. that throws a big questionmark over people's lives and people are very risk averse when it comes to their health care, which i think is one of the bases of skepticism about medicare for all in general. so, i would guess, ali, that as we see this week go on and your clip of joe biden hinted at this. that what we'll see is that this nevada primary will be in large part about medicare for all to some extent and about how the democrats should proceed on health care. and i think we'll hear a lot over the next six days of biden,

buttigieg, klobuchar saying that i'm not going to do away with your health care plan and bernie sanders is. >> very interesting, akunna, because most democrats in 2018 when they voted suggested that health care was the top of the list. even in the 2000 election it was for most americans one of the biggest issues. the medicare for all idea lives and dies on whether democrats themselves will support it and it is a big change, donald trump capitalizes on the idea that those of us who are insured through our companies may not like it. those who are insured through their unions won't like it and it could drive a wedge between democrats who are already divided on a lot of issues. >> it has already driven a wedge between democrats. trying to figure out health care which is bar none the most important issues for so many voters. voters of color, just everyone. really thinking about how to make health care more affordable

and how to avoid bankruptcies and other financial disasters that come as a result of medical bills. so, this is going to be an issue that democrats really need to get on the same page on. and medicare for all has been controversial. there are a lot of people who like their private health insurance option and want to figure out how to expand the affordable health care act as opposed to starting over with the whole new system. but bernie sanders and elizabeth warren and others have talked about getting to a medicare for all system. the issue is how do you pay for it and how do you convince voters that this is something that can realistically happen, given all the opposition to it. so, i think that the candidates are going to have to really be more, you know, clear about what they're proposing to address health care and make sure that they are speaking to the concerns of voters around both costs but also the effectiveness of whatever health care plans they're putting forward. >> alexi, what are you looking

for in nevada as the results come in? >> the interesting thing about nevada is that over the last decade, people who identify as nonpartisan has grown by 89%. and that's compared to something like, you know, less than 25% for the number of people who identify as republicans and the number of people who identify as democrats. that, to me, suggests that voters in nevada, a large portion of them and a growing portion of them are looking for candidates who can thread the needle and offer them an alternative that is not picking one part of the party or another. someone who doesn't have the same party loyalthy that we've seen from twitter democrats and that might reward someone like tom steyer who has been spending a lot of money in places like nevada and south carolina because he is viewed as an almost outsider candidate. that could reward someone like pete buttigieg because he makes a pitch that he is a washington outsider and that's what is attractive about his candidacy. of course, that could really reward someone like bernie sanders who, you know, is

running as part of the democratic party but has always been more of an independent person and a self-described democratic socialist. might present a vulnerability for him, the independent streak within nevada is very strong and reward candidates who are viewed more outside the main stream than those viewed as more establishment. >> michael, as we come out of nevada and, frankly, as we come out of south carolina, though each of these following races will tell us something very specific about where things stand with the democratic party and with the candidates, they won't statistically tell us enough. maybe i'm underestimating what south carolina will tell us because of the massive african-american vote there. but are we going to have any satisfaction a week from today? >> no. i don't think we're going to have any satisfaction a month from today, ali. one reason you pointed to in the way you phrased your question. the delegate math is very different for democrats than for republicans.

so, donald trump in 2016, he won a lot of states with the plurality, not a majority. but he won majorities of delegates in those states because many states in the republican primary had winner take all and something called winner take more formulas for awarding delegates. democrats don't have that. democrats have proportional delegates. so if you win 30% of the vote, you get 30% of the delegates more or less. it's more complicated than that. that's about how it works. in a field like this, we're not going to have any democrat winning 50% of the vote in practically any state. so, you can broadcast it forward in your mind. we get to june and every state and territory has voted. who is going to have 50% of the delegates? who is going to hit that magic number? i don't think anybody is by june. because of the way the democrats are awarding delegates. >> look, super tuesday may give us some interesting ideas,

akunna, because seeing pete buttigieg spending time there. more than 400 delegates will be available in california alone. but that might give us some sense of it. there are still people who are either talking about or looking forward to an idea of a convention that goes to a second ballot, which introduces a whole other raft of issues because there are a whole bunch of nonelected delegates that will take place. something the democratic party was criticized for in 2016. >> yeah, if you look, so, if you look at the results coming out of iowa and new hampshire, one of the interesting things is that bernie sanders is actually capped at, what, 35% of the vote. the rest of the democratic voters are looking for moderates. so, the challenge is rallying around one of the moderates and hopefully doing it soon so that you don't have a scenario where you're going into a contested convention and that's all going to be seen the next debate in nevada, what we see in the caucuses and the primaries.

i think a lot of the moderate democrats, independents, are looking for someone to emerge as the leader and i think there's going to be a scramble to get behind someone to avoid the scenario you just described. >> thank you to all three of you kicking us off on a sunday morning. michael, alexia and akunna founder of drake road strategies. let's take a look at what's going on in yokohama, japan. it's blurry and hard to see, but the evacuation of the ship has begun. it's not everybody on that cruise ship. but it is more than 400 americans who are being evacuated on to buses that will take them into quarantine. i'm trying to just sort of get -- we're depending on other people's camera on this thing. the buses have lined up and there are people getting off the bus. getting off the ship. you can see the feet sort of in the middle of the screen at the bottom. those are people getting off the cruise ship and being loaded on to buses that will move them

away. our janis mackey frayer on the ground keeping track of what is going on. still ahead, how the past is coming back to aunt michael bloomberg's presidential bid. what exactly is red lining and why did he claim getting rid of it triggered the great recession? i'll break that down for you next. >> we will not defeat donald trump with a candidate who instead of holding the crooks on wall street accountable, blame the end of racist policies such as redlining for the financial crisis. >> man: what's my safelite story?

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welcome back. former new york city mayor and now presidential candidate michael bloomberg has been consistently unapologetic about his past until recently. listen. >> one approach that in all fairness i deeply regret and

that's the abuse of a police practice called stop and frisk. i defended it for too long because i didn't fully understand the unintentional pain it caused young black and brown kids and their famfulilie and i should have stopped it sooner and i apologize for that. sometimes you just make a mistake and the sign of leadership is standing up and just learning and doing it better. >> stop and frisk, the controversial practice where police temporarily detain, searched and questioned black and latino residents. let's break down the numbers for you because according to the aclu in new york in 2011, the year in which there were the highest numbers of stop and frisks. 684,000, 685,724 people were stopped and frisked of which 4 574,483 were black or latino and 88% were innocent of anything. however, i'm waiting for more recent polling after this past disastrous week for bloomberg.

the latest quinnipiac poll shows supports rising among african-americans for michael bloombe bloomberg, most of which has come from joe biden. take a look at this. up 15% since the end of january. biden only ahead of him by five points. senior writer jameel smith warns while president trump is, quote, the ultimate threat, black new yorkers know enough to be terrified at the possibility of bloomberg becoming president and now bloomberg is facing new questions over comments he made back in 2008 that the elimination of something called redlining caused the financial crash. let me explain what red lining is. redlining is a discriminatory practice by which banks, insurance companies, et cetera refuse or limit loans mortgages or insurance to low income people who live in minority neighborhoods. began in 1934, but discontinued in 1968 after the fair housing act banned racial bias in housing. let's take a look at atlanta,

for example, where we're seeing a few different colors on this map. all right, these green areas are considered in demand. neighborhoods which are blue are undesirable. and yellow was seen as an area of potential danger, income decline. now, red, see these red areas, the red lines, if you will. that is a warning. it's a warning from the federal housing administration of a neighborhood's perceived economic instability. insured private mortgages and those living in these red areas were considered ineligible for mortgage insurance. if a bank lent to someone who lived inside the red line, that person was denied a loan from the bank. if they defaulted and got a loan from the bank, the bank would be on the hook. now, to understand the racism behind these regulations, we have to look at the grading system. as we said, green got an a from a bank, red neighborhoods got a

d. and those who lived in the d neighborhoods were typically blacks and latinos. because of the systemic discrimination, many black and latino families still haven't been able to expand their wealth. according to the economic policy institute, the difference in median wealth between white and black families is $153,400. white families average 171, not average, median, half of all families have wealth higher than this and half of all families have wealth lower than this. look at this for blacks, one-tenth the wealth of white families and much of this has to do with property ownership. to discuss this some more, i want to bring in my guest brookings fellow and the author of the upcoming book "know your price" andre perry and economist and president of bennett college dr. julieanne morvoe. welcome to both of you.

thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having us. >> i want to ask you first, redlining effectively ended in 1965, made illegal. it didn't actually end in 1965. the practice in some form or other have continued long after. the idea that the housing authority wouldn't guarantee a mortgage or insure a mortgage for people inside the red line stopped in 1965. what happened after that? >> well, 1968, the fair housing act certainly outlawed race discrimination in housing and didn't stop the pattern in practice. mike bloomberg, rudy giuliani, same thing but mike bloomberg was end when he said the edof redlining caused a financial crisis. greedy bankers giving people second and third mortgages and they went under water and they defaulted. but one-third of the african-american people who had sub prime mortgages could actually qualify for regular

mortgages but the banks were not lending to them. >> you made the important point. i don't mean to interrupt you. i'm only independentantiterrupt underscore your point. other than financial people. by wall street, greedy bankers and by people who found new ways to manipulate the system is just wrong. >> absolutely. you know, the thing that is important to note in terms of this is bloomberg runs around apologizing or he said, oh, i said that so many years ago. but the fact is you can see the impact in the wealth disparities. black folks have $1 of wealth for every $10 that white people have-not so different from 1910 when it was $1 for every $16. >> let's talk about that. the degree to which wealth disparity in this country has to do with the fact that african-american families after

slavery well until the great migration had virtually no ability to gain wealth that would be passed on to other generations and much of that was about property ownership. >> that's exactly right now. those practices still haunt us today. my research of the brookings institution found that homes in majority black neighborhoods are devalued by 33%. we control for education, crime and all those reasons people think home prices are lower in black neighborhoods. but after controlling for those issues, we found that on average homes priced in black neighborhoods are 23% lower, about 48,000 per home. about $156 billion in lost equity. and that also is true for businesses. in a forthcoming report we have coming up on tuesday, we're going to show that businesses in black neighborhoods, particularly those that are higher rated are losing about $4

billion in profits because of the perception, the stigma of black neighborhoods and that's what's harmful about bloomberg's rhetoric. the cover for nefarious policies that are imparted upon black communities. so, that rhetoric must stop. we want his policies. he has his greenwood plan and there is some good things in it. if you don't remove that negative deficit language, then those policies won't really catch root. >> i just want to examine this, andre says homes in a majority of black neighborhoods are devalued by 23%. that doesn't mean like it's a stock you should buy it because it's undervalued and it will shoot up. there are actually things that are keeping them under value. which means that a person with a house in a majority african-american neighborhood on

average is getting less value. they're creating less wealth out of that house than otherwise would be the case. >> well, you know, home equity is an asset. when people have home equity, they can borrow for their child's education. they have an enormous amount of borrowing power. that's what banks took advantage of when we had the financial crisis. if you had a house that was valued at, let's say, 100 and you paid about 50 grand, you have $50,000 worth of equitaek which you could borrow against. some people overborrowed and that's how they got in trouble. not just african-american people, a lot of people did that. you look at middle class people, home equity becomes the wealth driver for them and bequeath something to their children and becomes intergenerational. african-american people today have fewer than 45% of us own homes compared to about 71% of white people. so, you know, basically all those practices that you outlied, banks continue to do them.

they continue to use them. sometimes quite openly. sometimes very subtly. the amount of discrimination is daunting, but the permanent outcome of it is these wealth gaps that mean that black folks will never catch up. >> one in ten. one dollar in ten in wealth, andre perry. a number of the democratic candidates have proposals that are aimed directly at this sort of thing. fixing this long-term economic disparity. at some, one part of things called repriations and the other part, we have this remarkable wealth disparity that has come out of slavery and continues through today even after the fair housing act. you make an interesting point. bloomberg actually has proposed policies that would help african-americans. so, what does he have to do to make you believe that he'd be the right guy for african-americans? >> well, i joke all the time, but there's a lot of sincerity in this. if there's one person that we

should ask their opinion on ris michael bloomberg. folks who were incarcerated and harassed in new york city, in particular. he has the wealth. he has the opportunity to restore value that has been extracted by racism. and, so, when folks, when people are voting in south carolina, they should ask, how are your policies going to restore value from the communities that were robbed by racism? and he, of all people, have the capacity and should have and propose the policy to restore value to black communities. >> thank you, two, both of you, for a great discussion. i think we should have separate that bloom beeriberg talked abo. as dr. malvaeux pointed out we

improved but no where close to where we need to be. thanks to both of you. let's go back to yokohama, japan. 400 quarantined americans held on the diamond princess cruise ship for more than two weeks are now evacuating. janis mackey frayer on the ground with more. what is the situation? >> we know that americans were told to be ready this evening to pack a carry on and get all of their baggage ready and transported by buses to the airport which is about 20 minutes from here where that special chartered flight will be waiting to take them back to the u.s. we know the process is under way here. passengers were told to prepare. there are buses that are lined up. there have been announcements made on the ship that we have been able to hear. and we just had a number of military trucks drive past us.

the drivers in their hazmat suits suggesting that the military aspect of this, of controlling the transport of these people to the airport is in place. what we know is that people can expect to spend several hours waiting at an airport hangar. everyone needs to be screened for symptoms before they can get on that flight. only healthy people will be allowed to go. if somebody is showing signs or symptoms, they will remain here. they will be tested for the virus and, if necessary, they will be hospitalized. that's already the case for at least 40 americans who are being treated in hospitals here and there are also some people who have opted not to get on this flight, ali. if that's the case, they will remain on the ship until japan's authorities end the quarantine and only when they test negative for the virus will they be allowed to come off the ship. it doesn't mean they're allowed

to go home. u.s. officials were adamant in saying for anyone who chooses to stay, they cannot return to the u.s. until at least march the 4th. that would be two weeks from the 19th of february which is the date that japan's authorities expect to end the quarantine here. but with another 70 confirmed cases announced today, 67 cases yesterday, 355 passengers infected onboard. it is unclear whether japan's authorities are going to stick to that 14-day quarantine. >> all right. who's left, who will be left on that cruise ship and what happens to them? >> well, everyone who remains on the ship will be here again until at least the 19th of february. that's when the official 14-day quarantine is over and it's up to japan's authorities to get them off. there are other planes that will be coming. canada is sending a plane and a plane from hong kong to

repatriate those passengers and for japanese passengers they will, of course, remain here. and everyone else, again, will be tested before they get off the ship. before they'll be able to set foot in japan. ali? >> janis, we'll stay in touch with you over the course of the next few hours. get an update on what's going on. janis is in yokohama, japan for us. the power to investigate is the power to destroy, at least that's what one former fbi senior official told "washington post" in its report that the justice department has tasked five different u.s. attorneys into multiple politically explosive cases and that's now fueling distrust within the department of justice. with mistrust comes suspicion among the public who are now forced to question everything coming out of the department of justice and that suspicion has led to a call for barr's resignation from the "boston

globe's" editorial which calls lying, cheating -- how dangerous that their attorney general is helping the president weaponize the justice department for political purposes? "new york times" reports new concerns from department officials that say the political influence is in imminent danger because of barr's televised response to trump's angry tweets about roger stone and one "time" magazine article warns if the president can interfere, we no longer have a system of justice. no one is safe. joining me now is the author of that article in "time" former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law and msnbc contributor joyce vance. joyce, you are not prone to saying things that are designed to fear monger, but this is different. this is the united states justice department which we all understand is a branch of the executive. but what we have not understood until this last week and maybe

we should have but we have not understood the degree to which bill barr is acting like donald trump's attorney general as opposed to the attorney general of the united states. >> i think that's right, ali. although the "time" article is not mine, i share those sentiments. i think the important thing for people to understand is that there should never be any politically motivated interference in the criminal justice system. the president can't use criminal prosecutions as a political tool to punish his perceived enemies and to help his friends. and the concern here is that is what we're seeing with this doj and it's worth pointing out that something that prosecutors take enormous care with is to avoid not just improper actions, but also the appearance of any impropriety. it is so critical that the country need to be able to trust the justice system that prosecutors will bend over backwards to avoid that appearance of impropriety and

bill barr at a minimum has not done that. in fact, he's fueled the speculation that there is something amiss at doj. so, it's incumbent that he immediately stand up to correct that tweet from the president where the president claims the ability to meddle in criminal cases. >> let me ask you about something that bill barr said in the interview with abc and he said it otherwise. that this is normal practice for him to have been talking to his senior people about sentencing and sentencing guidelines and sendancing recommendations. but in this particular case after the attorneys from the justice department made the sentencing recommendation to the judge in the roger stone case, he then made them go back and change it. he has not provided any data or evidence in his history as attorney general. he's now attorney general for the second time or in his history anywhere else in which he involved himself in other such cases. i would assume thousands of cases in front of the department

of justice and i'd be curious in what proportion the attorney general intervenes when they don't have anything to do with the president of the united states. >> there are tens of thousands of cases in progress at doj on any given day. in my 25-plus years at the department, i never had the attorney general try to intervene in a guidelines sentencing recommendation which is what this was after the government had already filed. and there is supervisory review involved before doj recommends a sentence, particularly in a high-profile case in a minimum with a u.s. attorney in that district. often with the deputy attorney general who might receive an urgent report from that local u.s. attorney. that term inside the department advising them that this sentence is coming up. for the attorney general to say, you know i disagree with the recommendation of the career people particularly to take a

sentence out of that guideline range is absolutely unprecedented. it's clear here that it's happening because stone is the president's friend perhaps a co-conspirator. >> remind people the attorney general disagrees with you. he thinks it is normal and he also thought it was normal to tell us about what was in the mueller report that turned out to not be true a month later when we all got that report and he also thought it was normal to send a 19-page unsolicited memo to the then acting attorney general about whether donald trump needed to give answers to the mueller investigation. so, this guy hasn't done things in a normal way since before he was attorney general. >> you know, i think that's clear. barr has given the american people little reason to trust him. often you have to build up that reservoir of trust and good faith for when you make the difficult calls, but barr has on many occasions misled the american people at a minimum. so, i think that there is no

trust with this particular attorney general. >> thank you for joining us, joyce vance. after two years of waiting, researchers are seeing a treasure to-trove of data from facebook and the power of a like or share in the power of misinformation. this is "velshi" on msnbc. as a struggling actor,

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got their hands on a huge amount of data facebook has given a group of economic access to data to study the way its users share information and misinformation. the data consists of urls that you and i are likely to see via facebook. 38 million of them. each one viewed at least 100 times publicly on facebook. researchers can see details like whether the shared links were fact checked or flagged by users as hate speech. and then they can see broad demographic information about the people who viewed, liked or shared these links and gather political affiliations of those users. all of this is eventually going to tell us just how little we know or we've known before about what social media may be doing to our friendships attention of span and even democracy itself. i want to bring in jake ward and roger mcname.

it is a must read for anyone who is concerned about this information and misinformation. i want to start with jake ward. jake, you and i have been talking about this for a long time. you have said for a couple years now this is what needs to happen. independent researchers need to get their hands on this data to figure out what facebook knows about us and how it may or may not manipulate us and how we can figure out the impact of social media on people's behavior. >> that's right, ali. an incredible moment. a historic moment. the idea that this research group social science one is going to get not just the small, surface amount of data you can get from any cursory look at facebook, but a real data set that will allow academics to look inside the company and see how are we sharing things across this platform. how does misinformation spread? how does a conversation turn into hate speech and does hate

speech somehow stick in our minds more than the kind of innocent stuff that you and i might share about our families or our friends, right? the problem, of course, is that this is a thorny moment for facebook. under a decent decree and a huge fine for privacy violations and they said we have to limit the amount of data. they're not giving these researchers what they had hoped for which was a very specific individual level amount of data. the kind of data that facebook uses every day to monitor what you and i look at and figure out. but, it is a valuable thing because you're going to allow academics here and it has to be qualified academics. these are not cambridge, this is qualified, independent academics who got an approval and could apply and see suddenly how urls that are being shared across facebook sticking in our minds and changing democracy itself, ali. >> 5:45 in the morning where you are, my friend. i am never that perky and alive at 5:45 in the morning.

>> jake described the fact that facebook had to put some sand into this in order to put it out there to not violate their privacy decree and not violate the european privacy laws. something that you in your book talk so much about privacy, right. so, how do we blend these two worlds? we want privacy, but, boy do we want to see this data? >> the context which this data is being released. a post-cambridge analytica response. they were under massive pressure to disclose. i do not think of it as a coincidence. they slow walked this to the point where there is no way this will affect 2020. we are not going to learn enough. >> these researchers don't have enough time with this data. >> again, they have thrown the sand into the gears and i think in this case, facebook is much more concerned about protecting it own business than it is about helping us get to the truth about what happened in 2016. i think if you put this in the

context of a company that recently changed its rules about fact checking advertisements pie campaigns and just last week said, hey, in the context of bloomberg, you can as a campaign pay influencers to put out memes and other constetent and we're going to either. when i look at this, i think the privacy thing is a dodge for facebook and not something that they're coming at sincerely. >> jake, what else can we learn? what is the best stuff that could happen? if researchers get their hands inside of facebook and they see these things, is it just political behavior? will we be able to detect when someone is being radicalized before somebody goes out and commits a mass shooting? >> well, so what is so wonderful about this, ali, until now you've only been able, what is a good, creative question we could ask about how humans are using facebook and how it touches their brains are people inside

facebook. people on facebook's payroll. in this case, you're going to have the creativity of independent academics asking, what can we ask? a post that is filled with hate speech suddenly sticks and goes further and takes off in a way that we didn't realize it did and in a way that is perhaps far more effective than a post about puppies or a post about kids. if in doing so we understand, oh, there is a pattern to the way this stuff blossoms across a for-profit social media platform, maybe a way those policies should change. until now, we have been entirely hostage as roger says. you know, the profit motive of these companies even though at the same time they can go in and look at any data they want about you and i on an individual basis. now, in this case, the researchers are saying we're a little frustrated that we don't get that kind of data, that we can't draw the same kind of granular conclusions that people within facebook can, but we'll take this differential analysis and this higher level, more

statistically noisy stuff and be able to do some creative work by good, independent academics. you know, working at universities and working with federal funding to figure out the truth about how you and i are living our lives on facebook these days. >> so, i think there's one thing that i have to push back on what jake is saying. i think this is way better than nothing. and i'm really happy the data is out there. but i think at the end of the day the problem that we're facing is that we know what the problems are. we actually do know how hate speech circulates. we actually have very good information how this information gets creative and spreads. i spoke about the group at george washington university that shows groups created in 2015 and 2016 still operating both for president trump and for the bernie sanders campaign. and facebook's refusal to do anything about this kind of stuff is a huge problem for democracy. and as much as i want to study all the stuff at a granular level, the high-level policy

stuff should be really obvious to everyone. that facebook right now by its conscious actions and by its architecture is undermining democracy. we, as a country, should care much more about that than we do. >> thank you to both of you guys. i appreciate it. roger, good to continue to see you here and, jake, bless you for getting up early. it's hard with you california guys. still ahead, the race for the white house and why winning either party's nomination is really all about math. we're going to look at the current delegate count and talk about some of the most competitive contests coming up. high protein low sugar tastes great! high protein low sugar so good! high protein low sugar mmmm, birthday cake! and try pure protein delicious protein shakes (burke) we've seen almost everything,

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♪ ♪ everything your trip needs for everyone you love. expedia. as we gear up for a long stretch of some major state contests and as things continue to get heated on the democratic side of the presidential race, let's take a look at the

delegate count. all right, right now pete buttigieg is in the lead with 23 delegates, two ahead of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren is in third place despite the fact that you might not hear that much about it. she is in third place distantly and amy klobuchar in third place and joe biden has six delegates in fifth place. as you can see, we have a long, long way to go to the 1991 delegates needed to get the nomination on the first ballot. if this isn't done in the first ballot, this number actually goes up. there are several major states coming up with juicy delegate counts. next saturday, the 22nd, is the nevada caucus. i'll be there for it. it has 36 delegates up for grabs. that's not actually that juicy, but those 36 delegates are chosen from a more demgraphically diverse group of voters that we've seen from iowa or new hampshire. early voting began yesterday and runs through tuesday. those results will be fold under to the caucus day process and will not be reported before next

saturday. after nevada, we got south carolina, i'll be there, too. that's the 29th of february. this is slightly juicier and much more ethnically diverse. 54 delegates in south carolina. the state is quickly being viewed of more of a bellwether than iowa or new hampshire and this could be make or break for biden and to some degree, maybe even bloomberg. but those first four states iowa, new hampshire, nevada and south carolina, they, in total, add up to 3.9% of the total delegates available. not that much. where things really get into the thick of things is march 3rd. that's super tuesday. 16 contests including american samoa and delegates abroad. delegates abroad actually gets 13 delegates. that's almost as many as vermont. now, this year super tuesday is also noteworthy because the first time that california is going to be in the primary that day.

california was's been moved fort is down right golden because delegates available in california. there are a total of 1,357 delegates on the table on march 3rd. that is 34%. a little better of the third of the total. while it's pretty clear that president trump is going to win the democratic, i'm sorry, let me just swipe that. pretty clear, donald trump is going to win the republican nomination. he is guaranteed now to not have a clean sweep of delegates. as you can see, former massachusetts governor bill weld actually already has one delegate. there's something about that that is important and i'll talk to you about that a little later. that single republican delegate doesn't tell the whole story behind bill weld's presidential run. we'll have more when the 2020 republican candidate himself joins me in the next hour. you are watching "velshi" on msnbc.

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