assigning the district attorney to conduct the review from eastern missouri. installing outside prosecutor as highly unusual and could trigger i interference by top officials. last month, flynn filed papers to withdraw his guilty plea and now the doj is looking into the fbi's interview with flynn conducted days after the president's inauguration. the justice department declined to comment. that does it for us on this monday morning. i'm ayman mohyeldin and "morning joe" starts right now. there's a lot to talk about, michael bloomberg. >> a sexist and discriminator. >> does that hurt democracy? democrats don't agree on

everything, except the mayor michael bloomberg. an exclusive new look at his new ad. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is february 17, 2020, presidents' day and joe and willie are off. jonathan lemire is here. working, we love it and david ignatius is with us and former director of strategic communications for hillary clinton 2016 presidential campaign, adrienne elrod, a lot to talk about, and host of nbc's "politicsnation" reverend al sharpton. reverend, thanks for being on. watching you last night and i have a lot of questions for you this morning. there is no shoresage of news on this holiday. president trump reportedly infuriated by the justice department's decision not to prosecute former fbi deputy

director andrew mccabe. new calls for attorney general william barr to step down. this time from within. from more than 1,100 former federal prosecutors and justice department officials, and david ignatius will talk about the apparent deal with the taliban, or as he calls it, trump's afghan gamble, but first, what we saw from the candidates over the weekend is just the beginning of what will be an extremely consequential next two weeks for the democratic party. from wednesday's nevada debate to saturday's caucus, to south carolina the following week and peaking with super tuesday, we will be witnessing a no-holds-barred fight for how democrats will choose to combat trump. a fight which in many ways is for the soul of the party. will it be the far left or the more moderate wing radical change or incremental fixes? do they want to defeat trump or go bigger to defeat trumpism?

a grass roots revolution, or driven by big money? will voters grant racial forgiveness or demand racial accountability? will we see party unity or demand purity tests? all that in the next two weeks's so again as democrats campaign this weekend, a lot of their focus was on someone who won't even be on the ballot for another two weeks. michael bloomberg won't be on the ballot in nevada this coming saturday or on the ballot in south carolina, one week after that. but as the former new york city mayor rises in the national polls, democrats are sharpening their attacks before his first big test on super tuesday. just 15 days from today. so here's a bit of what we heard from bloomberg's rivals over the weekend. >> 60 billion dollars can buy you a lot of advertising, but it can't erase your record. there's a lot to talk about michael bloomberg. you all are going to start

focusing on him like you have on me which i'm not complaining. >> what kind of ally would you call michael bloomberg for the obama administration? >> on several issues, like guns, he was a real ally. a real ally. but if you notice, he wouldn't even endorse barack in 2008. he wouldn't endorse him. you know, he endorsed bush. he endorsed the republican before that. all of a sudden he's his best buddy. you know? i mean, and he would not endorse him. you take a look at the stop-and-frisk proposal, look at his ideas on red lines he's talking ak. take a look at what he's done relative to the african-american community. >> like i is have come on your show multiple times and a number of other candidates have come on and answered tough questions. he's got to do the same thing. he hasn't gone on the sunday shows since he announced. instead just running ads. i don't think you should be able to hide behind the ads. i think you should not only go on these shows, i also think he

should take the debate stage. why i have actually been supportive of him on that debate stage because i yo i can't beat him on the airwaves but i can beat him on the debate stage. >> the part i object to is the billionaire able to reach in his own pocket and throw down, you know, a couple hundred million dollars in order to finance their campaign. because what that does is, that just short circuits all of democracy. >> regardless of how much money a multibillionaire candidate is willing to spend on his election, we will not create the energy and excitement we need to defeat donald trump if that candidate pursued, advocated for and enacted racist policies like stop-and-frisk -- [ cheers and applause ] -- which caused minorities in

his city to live in fear. and issues to break down when it comes to michael bloomberg. obviously, his money. a lot of people complaining he's buying it, bypassing the other, you know, normal processes with this election, to buy it on super tuesday. there's complaints from women about how he has treated women. as he had, bloomberg. reverend sharpton, watching your closing remarks on your show last night. stop-and-frisk, a policy he inherited, expanded over the course of three terms and even pushed back when the courts deemed it unconstitutional. i saw you giving him a little bit of room to sort of, i don't know, come clean, get past it. what exactly does someone who pushed a policy like this, who was heard quoted in conversations saying things that are pretty rough racially, and has just decided to say he's

sorry, because he's running for president. like, i don't know what he could do to actually prove that this won't happen again in another way. perhaps you could share with me what you expect? >> i don't know what he can do either, but i think the challenge is that we can't just settle for a speech or a tour of speeches asking for forgiveness. >> right. >> there ought to be an effort on his past, on his part, rather, to say, and, therefore, i want to try and repair the damages done by this. some kind of criminal justice initiative, some kind of effort for those that were scarred. i also, mika, don't want to see him as a leaf that the other candidates dump some of their racial baggage, and why i said in my closing last night i want to know what bernie's going to say about the vote he did for the crime bill where people went

to jail on the cry bail, no matter his reason for voting for it, it was a law that incarcerated people. joe biden wrote it. amy klobuchar, with a 16-year-old should have never gone to jail that she prosecuted in minnesota. so i don't want them to attack bloomberg to cover the fact that all of them have racial baggage. we can reconcile but let's recognize that. >> i understand that, about the other candidates that you mentioned, but they're in the race. they're facing these questions. they're out mixing with the voters, actually participating in primaries, and the voters will get to decide es swespecian south carolina. as pertains to michael bloomberg, jonathan lemire, three four-year terms expanded it and fought for it fervently, correct? but doesn't have to participate in the primary process? >> right. never seen this before, skipping

the first four states entirely, just not getting involved. others like rudy giuliani, but this is new. to stop-and-africa, you're right. inherited from rudy giuliani but expanded it dramatically as mayor only dialling it down end of his third term in part because of legal action. his hand forced by the courts. so adrienne, i want to get to you, where we are now. the idea of democrats, mika's beginning, about a purity test. this is someone whose record is obviously being scrutinized right now. you know, and i think there will be more of this. remember, in 2004, he endorsed george w. bush and beyond that turned over the keys of new york city to him for that year's republican national convention and presided over nypd crackdown on crow test eprotesters. and traction about bloomberg's treatment of women and comments made about him while in charge of his company bloomberg lp. what do you think? democratic voterers learning more about him, is this a

problem or because they want to beat trump make a compromise with him? >> look, lemire, you bring an important point. which is there's still a lot of information that voters across the board in the democratic primary don't yet know about michael bloomberg, because they have seen the slew of ads he's run. he's run, what? $300 million so far, pretty close to it, in television. with certainly more to come. you have seen a lot of those television ads but haven't actually heard that much from michael bloomberg on the national stage. he's in a couple of national interviews and of course done rallies and events across the country in key battleground states, key super tuesday states. why i think wednesday night is such a big test for him even though of course not on the ballot until super tuesday, march 2nd. a huge test and voters will ultimately decide what is important to him? as you look at joe biden's numbers decline there is a rally around mike bloomberg in terms of believing he is most electable against trump or

potentially the most electable against trump, why you see his numbers rise as biden's numbers fall, but the real question is, how do voters respond to some of thee allegations? mike bloomberg will certainly be in the hot seat on wednesday night i think the clips you showed from the sunday shows this past weekend really demonstrate what is to come on wednesday night. again, one poll away, but we assume he'll get that probably tomorrow at some point. it's going to about real test. ultimately the question is, where do black voters stand? how do they accept his stop-and-frisk policies? forgive him? do they decide to kind of go as, no the necessarily a block but do they sort of shift their support from biden to bloomberg? do they find and alternative candidate to support instead? that's the real question, and how much are voters willing to put up with and also at the same time willing to accept going forward in terms of who they decide to be the front-runner in this race? >> interesting, they're not going to know. i mean, super tuesday's going to be a bunch of states in one

night but he's not going to have been tested by the first four. we're going to get to the complaints from some women in just a moment, but here's how maria theresa komar put the concept, the question around michael bloomberg on "meet the press" yesterday. >> this is where it's going to get tough. who's going to show up for the american public? mayor bloomberg or philanthropist bloomberg? i say that becauseif philanthropist bloomberg invested heavily for a woman's choice, gun reform, heavily invested when it comes to every issue will technically expand the tent. mayor bloomberg talks about red lining, talks about stop-and-africa has been incredibly damages with some of those policies. as he rolls out his person and his persona he's going to have to be able to answer directly of what is happens and who is going

to show up. >> hmm. could be both. bring in michael salt into the conversation. the page one editor at the "wall street journal." and reported extensively on bloomberg during his time as mayor. also historian, author of "the soul of america" and professor of the presidency at vanderbilt university jon meacham, nbc news and msnbc contributor. jon, start with you. sort of to give us a historical perspective, what does this look like and remind you of in any way? >> a little of 2016, just the day before yesterday, where you have an unconventional figure from new york who is forcing a lot of folks like us to sit around and talk about the norms and conventions and ordinary road size of american politics that may or may not still apply. this is the clearest test to me of whether the trump effect on

our politics is durable in the campaign sense, because everything that we said was going to sink donald trump, all the way through, "access hollywood," in october of 2016, didn't. because he defied the rules of political gravity. the question was, we know he defied them. did he repeal them? and ordinarily a lot of these kinds of questions would create a lot of stories on the front page of the "washington journal" and elsewhere that would have a clearly deleterious effect on bloomberg, but he was mayor of the nation's largest city for 12 years. he can be very blunt. i suspect his being blunt about his bluntness may, in fact, play very well, and i think the question atmospherically is, to what extent do americans care about having a perfect and carefully packaged candidate in

an era where every other norm seems to have been thrown out the window. >> and part of the primary process, jonathan lemire and caucuses, get to know the candidate and see how they do with voters. we've got a stop-and-frisk policy, a big question about michael bloomberg, which was carried out and pushed, expanded over the course of three terms. we need to talk about the three terms, because that's usually not what happens in new york city, and it doesn't anymore. but first, democrats won in part with bloomberg's money in 2018. they depended on that money that we're questioning so much now. >> no question. a huge benefactor to congressional races in 2018. has been a leader on some democrat uk issues like gun control and the environment, particularly with coal. >> yeah. >> but now there's a scrutiny what he's done before, the philanthropist bloomberg. great to see. i covered him a time here in new york not as extensively or long as you did. go back to that.

usually mayors get four years, two terms. remind us how that came about and how mayor bloomberg ended up serving three years 12 years? sure. first elected 2001, re-elected 2005 and soon as he started his second term there was a lot of talk about him running for president. in 2007 he left the republican party and became unaffiliated with any party as he flirted with running for the presidency. when 2008 rolled around decided no the to take the plunge and didn't run. the question what am i going to do now? a term limit law preventing mayors from running for a third term and the mayor decided he wanted to run for a third term. >> has any other mayor in new york city done that, decided he want add third term? >> yes, other mayors. >> were they successful? >> many third terms deemed unsuccessful, and if you ask michael bloomberg he'll say his third term was better than first and second. others in new york may raise an eyebrow at that. >> but did they get through and serve a third term like michael

bloomberg? >> yes. >> so it's got precedent. >> it does, but voters voted twice in the 1990s to prevent mayors running a third time, why the term limits law. >> and how did it come about? pressured and used resources? >> used philanthropy, criticism when this was happening leaning on folks he had given money to, to get them to help convince city council to overturn the term limits law. >> and covering him, how would you describe what you learned about him in terms of his leadership style? >> i would describe him as somebody who is very intent on getting things done and it's a little like his slogan. he, when he first ran in 2001 he had never had any experience in government, and he was able to convince folks after a 40-point deficit in polls. now, you also were up close and personal as he was a candidate and mayor and didn't run against

a fierce opposition. reminded, a underdog in 2001, after giuliani endorsed him in the wake of zsept 11 attacks tht sent imskyrocketing in the polls. likely see him, have to do more interviews and so on. what kind of retail politician is he? and also remember he's pretty rusty. hasn't done it in years? >> definitely rusty and never a great retail politician. he is a businessman. that's basically been his career. sure, in government for 12 years as mayor, but in terms of retail politicking, is he the, you know, the warm, fuzzy person on the campaign trail? absolutely not. >> i don't think he would say he is. i can't get over the video -- unsee the video of him shaking a dogs head from vermont. and takes himself with a sense of humor. when i -- when you read about the complaints that women have made about his leadership style and also some of the, you know,

i get ndas or agreements, women who felt harassed or spoken to inappropriately, did that surprise you? >> no, it didn't surprise me. most of those allegations are from before he was mayor and in, in the lawsuits and all of these allegations were aired during his campaigns for mayor. so i certainly wasn't surprised by them, but they are serious allegations. if you're running for president absolutely fair game. >> michael salt. thank you so much. david ignatius, bring you into the conversation because you've written a column about the re-emergence of the moderate democrat. and i'd like to know what that means, where bernie sanders plays in that since he's the one who appears to be on the upper end of winning so far, and where does michael bloomberg stand in that narrative? >> mika, as i looked at the results of the first two contests, it struck me that although bernie sanders does get

the attention, he makes the noise in the party, if you look at the numbers, they're telling you something, which is that in this botched iowa caucus that we ended up not paying much attention to, mayor pete buttigieg had a breakout win. a guy who's main campaign theme, as i watched the "law & order" debates, his more progressive rivals proposals on medicare for all and other issues, he was the moderate guy who was going to talk sense, and he won in iowa. extraordinary moment and then look at new hampshire. bernie won but won narrowly. buttigieg came in, in a strong second. striking was when you add, i'm going to call him moderate numbers. buttigieg as about what? 24% and amy klobuchar at nearly

20%. you end up with a much larger total than for bernie or bernie plus elizabeth warren, the other progressive candidate. seemed to me we were missing the fact in the first two races the movement may be towards the center, not towards the wing, as people often have been assuming. the problem, as i look at this, mika is that while there's a moderate aggregate, it seems, in the democratic party this year. people really want to go out and beat a more extreme donald trump, aggregates don't win elections. if you remember anything, it's from 2016, all of those candidates whose support together added up to a lot more than donald trump getting mowed down one by one by trump, by the cares mask populace. that's what we have to remember. the final thought is, if there

is a kind of moderate plurality in the party, a desire for a candidate like this who can lead and biden is fading. he was going to be the standard bearer for that view, the question is whether moderates will be able to come together behind a single candidate after super tuesday, after some more results. that's a really interesting puzzle. suppose bloomberg does really well. can we really imagine mayor pete or amy klobuchar stepping back for this newcomer with all the money falling out of his pockets? hard to imagine that. so more and more people worry, we're heading maybe towards a democratic convention in milwaukee with lots of people having votes that will be a blood bath, and could go to a second vote. >> that could be -- reverend al, let me develop on that with you as we look ahead to nevada and south carolina. what are voters in those states looking for, and the debate, in

a may or may not include bloomberg, depending on, i guess, poll numbers that could come out, and if bloomberg steps in and wins it on super tuesday, did the caulk esgoers and veeters in iowa, new hampshire, nevada and south carolina, do their votes not matter? >> that is the danger. do we set a precedent where someone can come in with money and cancel out really the in-factor of the preceding primaries and caucuses? i think that's a dangerous precedent, but we'll see if that's has happens. i'm in south carolina today. i think people on the ground are concerned about their issues of survival, their issues of dealing with a criminal justice system that is fair and their issues of how their children be going to be educated. a lot of the candidates are talking in very narrow, purist terms. you have to do my way, this way and not addressing the bread and

butter issues which is why i'm saying as we analyze these candidates including and especially bloomberg, let's not just analyze one or two candidates. they all need to come clean, because at the end of the process, donald trump's going to bring up whatever we don't put on the table now, and get clear one way or another, because trump is taking notes and he knows no boundaries in trying to discredit people using all kinds of things, including dishonest information. >> don't we know that. still ahead on "morning joe," joe biden is out with a pointed criticism aimed not just at bernie sanders but also his online supporters. we'll show you that, and the new ad from mike bloomberg taking on the so-called bernie bros. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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beautiful shot of new york city on this monday morning, presidents' day. it is 28 past the hour. former vice president joe biden is calling out 2020 rival senator bernie sanders. it comes after nevada's culinary union accused sanders supporters of harassing its members after the group raised questions about sanders health care policy. speaking on "meet the press" yesterday, biden said sanders has not done enough to condemn the behavior. >> if his supporters are attacking culinary union members, who's responsible for that? >> look, he may not be responsible for it, but he has some accountability. i'm going to, put you in a spot you don't have to -- you know me well enough to know if any of my supporters did that, i'd disown them. flat disown them. the stuff that was said online.

the way they threatened these two women who are leaders of that culinary union, it is outrageous. go online. i invite anybody to go take a look, the things they said. the vicious, malicious, misogynistic, things they said, the threats they put out and to say i disassociate is one thing. find out who the hell they are. have any of them worked for me? fire them. find out. see what's going on. >> you don't think he's been curious enough? >> i'm hoping he's looking, but i tell you what. so far i don't think it's sufficient just to say, i disassociate myself. >> hmm. and michael bloomberg is also taking on sanders for the online behavior of his supporters. "morning joe" has this first look at a brand new digital ad from the bloomberg campaign. ♪ ♪

[ bell tolls ] >> it is title vitally importan those of us who hold different views to be able to engage in a civil discourse. >> hmm. jonathan lemire, what do you think? >> pretty harsh. we've seen mayor bloomberg train his fire on president trump, a series of hard-hitting ads on-air and digital. first time, most extreme version against a fellow democratic contender for the nomination. your take on that, adrienne. the bernie bros are out there.

those who have said or written anything negative of bernie sanders have heard from them at least on occasion. certainly other candidates do quite frequently. what do you make of this ad? is this going to be effective? >> you know, that's the real question, jonathan. because i think something like 7% of americans are on twitter. i don't know if this will have an overall impact but a digital ad, meaning targeting people who are victims of the bernie bros attacks online. i think it's interesting to note that this is the first ad that he's done that goes after a fellow democratic primary challenger. you know, it, he wasn't drawing a contrast on guns. he wasn't drawing a contrast on the economy, or, you know, some other aspect of somebody's voting record. he was taking on the bernie bros. so if anything, this gives us some sort of element and indication where the race is going and what we might see play out on wednesday night. >> adrienne, quick, his campaign, i mean, they have the

money to hire the best people and as many people, and paying well. >> they are paying exceptionally well and do have some of the best talent in the democratic field in terms of campaign strategists and operators on that campaign. they've been able to attract a lot of strong talent coming off some of the campaigns, the candidates who have dropped out, and amassed what? i think 2,500 staffers across the country. the fact they were able to build this operation so quickly is significant, no matter how much money you have, it's still very impressive to build this operation so quickly, with so many people, and you know, look, at the very least, if mike bloomberg does not become the nominee, his campaign, and he's made it very clear, this operation will stay intact through the duration of the cycle. in anything, it will help the democratic nominee, if not mike bloomberg, whomever it is and we as democrats, i am very thankful for that aspect. >> okay. so jon meacham and then reverend

al. wrap do we compare this could, jon meacham, thinking of jfk or our elections that were bought and involved a lot of family influence, and then, rev, on how do we believe him if he's buying everything? meacham? >> yeah. a lot of money. that was, you know, almost everything in the pre-watergate era was unrecorded. it's lost in the mist of history, how much was spent. pretty clearly, you know, president kennedy actually framed this forever, with that wonderful line he got a telegram from his father who said, jack, i don't mind you buying an election i'll be damned if i'm going to pay for a landslide. there is that. >> yeah. >> i think, you know, bloomberg is a fascinating combination of new and old. right? it's the new world of technology. he made his money from

understanding the flow of information. of understanding what markets needed, what the people who moved markets needed. this is a guy who got fired as a young man from salomon brothers i think it was and has built this remarkable fortune, but he did it by understanding what moved markets and how to get that information to people. it's not that much of a leap to see him moving that data-driven skill set to politics. people can argue, oh, it's too clinical, but, again, we have 12 years of him being mayor in the most saturated media market in america to make that judgment. so i think he's a massive disruptive force. >> yes. >> in a race that appears to need some disruption. >> reverend al, he is a disruptive force and you are in a position to give him the support he needs or the pass he needs, and i'm certain he's looking for it, but i guess my

question is, when you think of a candidate like joe biden, which who everyone knows i, i'm a big fan. you know who joe biden is. up know where his heart is. you know most of, mostly where his boundaries would be. by his record and by his service and by getting to know him over time. what do you know about mike bloomberg in terms of being able to believe him? and knowing whether he will put his money where his mouth is? >> well, if he's looking for a pass from me, he needs to go to the next pass. i'm not giving anyone a pass. i, again, would challenge him to show any way, shape or form why we ought to believe that he is sorry when he did it four days before he announced for president, announcing he was sorry. and i am just saying that at the same time, and i said this when i ran in '04 to those candidates then.

everyone needs to come on and show us what they're doing. do you know, mika, there were very few u.s. senators that even had a black person working in their senate office. i clearly led a lot of the marches and rallies against bloomberg and clearly held him to task on this, but i don't want to say that everyone should be held to task, but under no circumstances am i saying that michael bloomberg should not have to demonstrate, if he can, and that's a big question, that he wants to try and repair or at least make an effort towards the damage he did, but i also want to know tom steyer, the other billionaire in the race. how many blacks work in your companies? i want to know about the issues i've raised and biden and bernie. >> yeah, and i think that if we give anybody a pass, then it looks like we're being political to do it on one candidate. they all need to come clear, but clearly bloomberg has a lot he has to show for, but i think the crime bill put people in jail,

some in jail today, and we've got to deal with that. i think biden's heart was right, but i think his head was wrong on the crime bill, and we've got to repair that as well. >> reverend al, thank you so much, and coming up, is there a growing divide between president trump and the justice department? first, the attorney general criticizes trump for his tweets. then the department reveals it will not charge one of the president's top targets, former acting fbi director andrew mccabe. we will talk about that next on "morning joe." ...and they found themselves in a magical land. and then what happened? where's our family from? was he my age? so nana and pops eloped? ...and then what happened, daddy? well, before us, there were your great, great, great grandparents.

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investigators about a leak to the media. the u.s. attorney's office in washington sent mccabe's attorneys a letter on friday announcing the decision writing "after careful consideration, the government has decided not to pursue criminal charges against your client." adding "based on the totality of the circumstances and the information known to the government at this time we consider the matter closed." mccabe's attorneys responded in statements saying in part "at long last justice has been done in this matter." the decision by the justice department came the same day it was revealed that a federal judge months ago expressed concerns that mccabe's case was looking like a banana republic prosecution. president trump was reportedly infuriated by the move. a senior white house official who spoke on the condition of anonymity told the "washington post," trump ranted privately to associates about the announcement telling one he's

always known mccabe was a bad guy. all right. joining us now to talk about this, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, nbc news national security analyst jeremy bash and jonathan lemire, you can take the first question. a lot of messages are being sent to trump from people who are connected with the justice department over the weekend. >> sure. jeremy, it's been a pretty eventful couple of days. the attorney general's interview on abc saying the president's tweets were making his job impossible. we have the president tweeting about the department of justice the very next day making it clear he would keep doing that. and now we have this mccabe decision, in which, according to our reporting as well really infuriated the president. also we have william barr suggesting he might look into the michael flynn matter again. from your take, your perspective, where do things stand in the relationship between barr and trump personally. more importantly between the white house and the department of justice? >> in the big picture, jonathan, that the president is trying to

politicize our criminal justice system. the president is trying to insert politics in decisions about who to prosecute and who not to prosecute and clearly wanted mccabe prosecuted, of course, because the evidence wasn't there and the grand jury wasn't prepared to return a true bill of indictment, there was no case to proceed with, but the president has not been shy and been pretty direct that he does want prosecutors to go much easier on his ally roger stone, who, of course, was convicted as a jury trial and looking at multiple years incarceration and has asked that mike flynn essentially his case be reviewed after flynn pled guilty more than two years ago. you see the president getting involved in these decisions and i think there's just a very short step between reviewing these prosecutions and actually asking the justice department to engage in political prosecutions. i think the concern by career prosecutors is that we may see that, if president trump is not reined in and if he's re-elected, we may see him directing political prosecutions, which, of course,

would undermine our entire criminal justice system. >> david ignatius? >> jeremy, i just want to ask you about the kind of fallout of this. 1,100 career prosecutors criticizing statements by the president is unusual. barr's own pushback against trump saying the tweets are not helpful is striking. i'm told that lindsey graham has said much of the same thing to trump privately. you've crossed a line here. what do you think about the possibility that trump is going to realize that on this one, he's over a line and is going to have to pull back? he interestingly didn't criticize the decision not to prosecute mccabe yet. is that a sign that he's pulling back some? >> what of the chances trump will pull back? zero. let's be honest. the president learned a lesson as senator collins said, from impeachment. the lesson he learned, he can act with impunity. david, you and i over the

weekend were as the munich security conference in europe. an interesting conversation i had there was with an intelligence, a law enforcement official from another country that struggling with rule of law issues. this individual said to me, you americans lecture us all the time about the impartiality of justice, rule of law, about having institutions to constrain executive overreach, and look what you're doing with barr. look what you're doing with the president and these prosecutions. how can america have any credibility? i think that not only is a very distressing snell about what's happening today in the justice department but distressing what america stands for and can stand for in the world and david, i would ask you, in the conversations you were having over the weekend at the munich security conference, what were you hearing about our allies around the world believe whether we will stand up to russian agres, stand up to putin or can continue to advance values

america stood for since the end of the cold war? >> jeremy, i had the same sense talking to europeans in particular. a sense they were just lost that the american force that has been really the dynamic, the organizing principle for the transatlantic alliance has gone, the phrase used, that jeremy and i heard often this last weekend was theme of the conference, westlessness, and by westlessness, basically they mean lack of a strong and credible united states presence and president, and as jeremy says, people just shake their heads when they read the reports out of the u.s. about trump's latest comments. it's not the america that they're used to. >> professor meacham, happy presidents' day. i'm sure you, like me are sparing thoughts for john quincy

adams, but your historical impression on the outsized -- what he's trying to do. have we ever been here before? >> no. not -- with the exception of watergate and the saturday night massacre, perhaps there's been totally unreported pressure, but that would have been more cultural and not quite as direct. i appreciate your mentioning what is in fact the super bowl for dorks, which is presidents' day. we're doing franklin pierce nachos around the house here. so if you want to, the recipe, we can pass those along. you know -- >> poor kids. >> -- it's true. you know, it gets worser and worser. mike allen had an interesting list in axios over the weekend how trump had gotten lucky, which does help to explain why the approval ratings are where

they are both on the economy and iran and other things, but it gave me pause as i sat and read it, because if we're living on luck, then to go to everything that david and jeremy are saying, luck runs out. there's, for -- no matter what side of the aisle you've been on, what part of the spectrum from fdr to obama, there was a core of competence and a commitment on the part of those american presidents to an american order that required, and this is not a word we use much with presidents or with anybody, really, certainly not with presidents, it required a certain humility. there was a certain point at which despite all the raging, despite the fact that you were the central figure, there was something larger than yourself, and just look at march 30, 1968. lyndon johnson, who was second

to no man in self-regard, whoever drew breath, decides, thought he would lose, perhaps, but he did get out of the race. richard nixon, the very end of the day, they chased him to the edge of town, but he left town. and he oh, bbeyed the rule of l. i is a specks from the europeans are thinking about and lord knows a lot of us are will, in fact, this president obey any limits going forward? including in a presidential election. and there is this nuclear option, which is, let's say he loses and decides to announce that it was rigged. >> right. >> what happens then? >> that's an amazing question, and i think it's everything is possible with trump. i think we've all learned that lesson. jeremy bash, let you in by asking you what you think about that? >> well, again, here's a president of the united states willing to use the apparatus of government to, in effect,

potentially persecute his political rivals and work the will, work his will, on american democracy. he's not longno longer a candid calling for interaction. he has the tools, authority and in some cases power to undermine our american democracy. something to pay attention to. up next, 14 americans who tested positive for the coronavirus after an outbreak on a cruise ship arrived back in the u.s. overnight. we'll tell you where and what is next for them. and as we go to break, during a candidate forum on friday in nevada, three of the presidential candidates were tested on their foreign policy chops including the leadership of mexico. take a look at this. >> i'm asking, because i feel like a lot of the times this is our neighbor to the south, and a lot of people don't even know his name. you know -- >> i forget. >> do you know his name? >> i forget, do you know his name.

>> yeah, i -- i know that he is the mexican president. >> but can you tell me his name? >> no. >> can you tell me who the president of members coe is? >> yes -- >> you're the only one that's been able to tell me that today. >> really? - [narrator] meet the ninja foodi pressure cooker with tender crisp technology. the best of pressure cooking and air frying are now in one pot.

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on update on the coronavirus. countries are racing to track down more than 1,000 cruise ship passengers that disembarked in cambodia after an american passenger tested positive for the coronavirus. the cruise ship had been shunned at several ports amid fears it might carry the coronavirus, but after reassurance, the ship was disease-free, cambodia finally agreed to let the passengers disembark. however, an american from the ship was stopped at the malaysia

testing positive for the virus sending officials scrambling to find the passengers to stop the virus from spreading. it's unclear how well the passengers were screened before being allowed off the ship. 14 other americans evacuated from a cruise ship in japan found to have been infected before boarding a plane to the u.s. the state department says the american evacuees are asymptomatic arriving in texas and california overnight on charter flights. bill nealy join us next hour live from hong kong with the latest reporting on this. and coming up, much more as mike bloomberg's democratic rivals take aim at his record and unprecedented ad spending. the "washington post" robert costa joins us with his new reporting. "morning joe" is back in a moment. est for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret... est for my family. ...i was cured. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret...

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♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i mean, part of being president is not just the idea you have. can you get it done? have you ever done anything big? have you ever been able to put together coalitions that bring along republicans and all the democrats to get things done? and the idea, i mean, it's almost fanciful -- >> isn't that bernie's strength? everybody knows, one thing about bernie. you know where he stands. you know who he is. he doesn't change. isn't that -- >> and the has he ever gotten anything done? aye mean -- he's a decent guy. talking about health care, medicare for all, universal health care for 35 years.

nothing's happened. i helped get passed obamacare. i helped move it forward. i got the votes. i'm in a position where i take something and i promise you i'll get done. joe biden getting more pointed with bernie sanders. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday february 17th. joe and willie are off on this presidents' day. still with us, we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, columnist and associate editor for the "washington post" david ignatius is with us and former chief of staff to the dccc adrienne elrod and joining the conversation we have professor at princeton university eddie glod jr. and alycia alycia menendez and nbc political analyst robert costa moderator of "washington week" on pbs. we'll get more to the conversation on michael bloomberg, robert costa you're

covering in a moment. first, former mayor pete buttigieg turned his focus to senator bernie sanders as well in hopes of keeping his lead in the delegate count. over the weekend, buttigieg looked to draw contrast between his and sanders health care plan tweeting medicare for all who wants it covers every american and won't raise taxes on the middle class. bernie sanders plan raises taxes on every american making over $29,000. this election will decide which plan we take on donald trump with. the former south bend mayor also slammed the plan's cost and sanders supporters recent attacks on union leaders over medicare for all. >> we could get completely trapped down the rabbit hole of a debate over whether to abolish private insurance, which most americans don't want, or we can deliver quality public insurance available to everybody who is so vulnerable that is affordable or

free if you aren't able to do it otherwise. we can do that. americans want that and moves through congress and gets it done instead of debating four years later debating how long it will take to deliver. >> it's really disturbing to see the culinary union attacked when these are workers who have stood up and fought for among other things good health care plans. they're not interested in washington taking away their choice. >> can't really question the strategy, adrienne elrod, given that pete buttigieg came in the top tier for iowa and new hampshire. >> yeah. >> but here's my question for you. does joe biden had a chance? looking ahead to nevada and south carolina, what's going on with the campaign? what's your gut? >> you know, mika, i think he's got, still certainly has a chance. i think it's a limited chance, but certainly has a chance, because, this is something his campaign, the point they'd maeve time and time again. we have not had a lot of diverse voters cast votes in this

election yet. obviously iowa, new hampshire, largely white states. joe biden's strength remains in nevada and south carolina, states that are largely diverse. lost a little support? sure. wednesday night's debate is crucial for joe biden to demonstrate why he's still fighting in this race. got to give donors reassurance why they should still be funding his campaign. that's going to be a real challenge. but i think if he finishes in the top two in nevada and his campaigns believes they may come out of nevada with the largest raw vote total, finishes well in nevada and has a win in south carolina, then he can go into super tuesday with momentum, but the real challenge for joe biden is, can he give those donors of his reassurance? because mika, we talked about this time and time again. he doesn't have the strong grassers donor base that bernie sanders and pete buttigieg has. he's relying on larger donors

and have to figure how to sustain his campaign, keep it funded. a narrow window to do that but certainly very much potential for him to be able to do that going forward. >> jonathan lemire? >> yeah. nevada is certainly sort of overlooked of the first four states. first of all, it's another caulk us scenario and reports there may be more chaos there, shades of iowa, perhaps, certainly it shouldn't be overlooked for us. dictating momentum going into south carolina and the first state with diverse population. showed poll number there's. hasn't been nearly as much polling out of nevada as the other, as iowa, new hampshire or certainly south carolina. >> an issue in and of itself. >> sure. i was struck by one thing. margins are close. pete buttigieg is trailing even tom steyer in nevada. where could this be for him if we know his struggles to attract minority voters, puts up a disappointing fourth or fifth,

south carolina looming next, could he, as great of a story out of the first two states, could he be hitting a wall? >> certainly the argument other campaigns have made. before we get to buttigieg, let me talk who we see at the to be of that heap. that is bernie sanders. talked to the sanders campaign. they will tell you part of the reason they have those numbers in that state is because they made an early and deep investment in latino voters and have about 200 staffers in the state. they say about 76 are latino, 11 field offices and credit the fact they started early, went up with ads in nevada very early and simply to your question about mayor buttigieg. you cannot make up for that lost time. right? if you did not make that investment early, a state 30% of the population is latino. 20% of the electorate is latino. they will play an absolutely critical role. look at the 2018 midterms. nevada overall had wild turnout. they had near presidential

turnout during a midterm and a big part of that was driven by latinos. so it is important for whoever the eventual nominee is, part of what nevada is, is a test. right? it's a test for whether or not you can then turn those people out in a general and what's so interesting, the states that follow nevada after we get through south carolina. tests in california, in arizona, in texas and florida. it's going to come hard and fast, and that demographic will play a huge role. >> robert costa what do you see happening here? obviously, the run-up to iowa and new hampshire, joe biden was top of you a the polls and looked like headed to first place and then began to slip right before. who or what impacted his campaign? >> at this point vice president biden faces stiff competition from others advocating for a medicare for all who wanted a public option, however you want to phrase it-type health care plain. mayor buttigieg, senator

klobuchar, now mayor bloomberg in the race making his own electability argument, but also he face as real candidacy challenge in senator sanders. we always talk about iowa as a 90% white state, but when you look back how senator sanders handled that campaign, it's indicative how he's handling the nevada caucuses. iowa is 90% white, but he spent a lot of time focusing on that other 10%. you saw events across the state there and in nevada now, teino bernie, and also see in the firewall of south carolina for biden, senator sanders learned a lot of lessons from 2016. when he stumbled in south carolina in a competition with secretary clinton. the last four years he's built up relationships in that state. you see sanders moving forward without much competition on the left, because senator warren has been struggling and vice president biden facing all of this competition in the center.

>> so much competition. eddie, i wonder looking ahead to nevada and south carolina and the debates, that are all right in front of us in the next two weeks. debates that michael bloomberg, may or may not, participate in. and waiting for one more poll i guess. he probably will. >> likely will. >> likely will. back to the electability argument here looking ahead to these next two races, he won't be participating in the first four states. >> right. and it seems to me -- >> how does america get to know what they're electing? >> beyond commercials and political ads. right? that's a really important point. as we pivot to nevada and south carolina, the debate will take up issues that now involve a much more diverse america. it will have to take -- the candidates will have to address questions of immigration. have to address questions of immigration reform. have to address the question of where minority populations sit within the context of this economy and its recovery and the like. right? >> who's the president of mexico. >> you have to know that if you're grog to be on telemundo

seems to mow. know anything about the south if you're going to be on telemundo tv. one of the interesting things i think about sanders and biden. recent polls so biden is leading democrats among non-white voters. saul it on the morning consult. sanders jumped ten points. what are we looking at here? what we're seeing is that the democratic process is working itself out. now, black and latino voters are actually participating in the national process. and they're beginning to add their voice to the conversation. we're going to is see how these candidates respond. there's a reason why amy klobuchar has to come out and now present a plan. there's a reason why pete buttigieg has to not be dick gephardt, come out with a plan. now you know, cards are on the table. ewh see what happens. >> david enasignatius. making a point. the president now doesn't know who the president of mexico is. no. he doesn't. just saying. >> let's make that assumption. >> yeah.

so -- what are we looking for? the democrats are, you know, lots of different screen tests going on. and we still, at this point, two states down, don't really have a clear understanding what the party really wants for itself. >> well, you know, mika it is still early in the process. it's been going on for such a long time. it seems strange to say that, but, you know, we're two states in. i think that what will be really interesting next, the period, will be we'll see whether michael bloomberg can be a good retail politician. whether he can answer the many questions that have been asked about his record, about his attitude towards women, about how he really feels about stop-and-frisk, and that's the process where americans will see whether this guy is a good potential leader, and i think

that's going to provide a new dynamic in the race it will be fascinating. the same questions apply obviously with all the candidates. can pete buttigieg pibuild on t successes of the first two and really broaden his appeal? find some traction with minority voters? amy klobuchar. superstar breakout engaging. does she have what it takes, as one of these campaign books put it years ago. i think it's still early. we're getting into the really fun part, i want to say. >> yeah. this is fun! >> and we're going to see how this works. how do they do with the tough questions that we're talking about this morning? >> and bob costa, such an action-packed two weeks where democrats fight it out and figure who they are and what they want. you're covering mike bloomberg and i guess to develop on something david just said, it's not just being able to answer the questions, that might be of interest to african-american

voters, for example, but how does he prove he cares? how does he prove that he's going to bring humanity into his presidency? how does he prove that it's not going to be all about data and it's not going to, you know, use a different part of his brain which i think at this point a lot of people are looking for an answer to donald trump. somebody with empathy. somebody with a sense of humanity. somebody who cares about people. >> his campaign believes that television advertising at this point and moving forward is going to be critical for connecting with voters, and wild he may not be doing events at the moment, where he is dealing with voters day to day, in a significant way, where he's challenged why reporters at the same time, that usual scrum is not following mayor bloomberg in the same way. it's very controlled. his message, hi event presentation. to reference something david just said. he talked about the book "what it takes" by richard ben kramer.

you think about that lay writer's book, one of the campaign classics. who's the main character in the book? joe biden. the book is about how biden in '88 is trying to come back, trying to pull it together. a lot about that book covering vice president biden now, can biden really make a statement in south carolina? to your point, mika. about his own empathy, about his place in the democratic history books working alongside president obama, because he is now facing a daunting challenge. a political machine, a billion dollars, in michael bloomberg and a record that -- and a network so connected to different democrats around the country because of all the money he has spent and the relationships he has built. >> certainly bloomberg has come under phi fr eer fire from all rivals and de blasio is basically elected as a rebuke to the bloomberg 12 years including issues on stop-and-frisk.

eddie, my we coming back to bloomberg, compromise. of democrats willing to compromise their beliefs? heard for years they don't want to be party of billionaires yet he's one of the richest guys on the planet trying to become the party stander bearer at least the next four years, also it's about the sexist comments raby michael bloomberg. >> that were really upset when joe biden hugged people. now let this stuff slide jie mean, who are we? >> the honest answer to the question is some democrats will be willing to compromise. some democrats more interested in their pocketbooks, who are selfish, who are committed to a certain particular economic agenda, they might be willing to compromise. look at this. mike bloomberg is the poster child of a certain form of policing. it's not just a policy. it's a certain form of policing. jalen butler, a swimmer, right?

in eastern illinois just accosted by police had a gun put to his head after the swim team went to, to the bathroom for a break. right? when we think about khalif browder in new york city, falsely arrested. jailed in riker for three years. committed suicide. all right? this is not just simply a policy that you can then just apologize for. what is mayor bloomberg's reparative justice agenda? where does he stand on bail reform, decriminalization. it's not simply about apologies. right? it's about policy and about agendas that will fundamentally repair the harms done to communities. and that seems to me to be a question that has to be asked over and over again and can't be dismissed with the smugness of somebody with billions of dollars. >> i've heard this from many

black leaders. they want to know whether or not mike bloomberg can deliver a repair. that's a different question. democrats ask black and brown voters to come out every election cycle and carry them to victory. then there is some sense of, yeah, stop-and-frisk is important. immigration is important, but what about these big, economic issues? no. for these communities, these are questions are life and death and survival and they have to be front and center. >> yes. >> that is what, we certainly may not work but the trump campaign is banking on that. the idea democrats are taking these voters for granted and trying to make their own push. criminal justice reform, woo black voters. at the least, the economy doing well. you're benefitting from what trump has done. diminish differences. >> part of what they understand they don't need to win latino voters. just take a little off the top to make up that margin of difference. go back to something you said i think is so important, which is, a lot of these other candidates have been vetted.

the other candidates answering questions. right? biden -- had to also answer -- >> every day. >> -- for the crime bill. kamala harris out of the race now having to answer for her time as a prosecutor. now that you have some of the candidates who are emerging later in the game, it is only fair that they face that same level of scrutiny that those who have been there from the beginning faced. >> the material is there for michael bloomberg. the quotes from the women, really? think about what they've been through. joe biden went through the whole hug-gate, beginning of his run and this is going to be a lot to talk about when it comes out and he has to address it. >> end of the day, leaders of the democratic party don't understand this is a turnout election, we cannot, cannot, suppress the energy of the base of the party. mike bloomberg is the face of police and the cover of night empties zuccotti park. think about the energy that led

to the bernie campaign. the bernie surge, occupy wall street. begin to think about black lives matter and how criminal justice reform is at the heart of black lives matter. remember what they did to hillary clinton in 2016 over her mentioning a black folk as predators. think about the question around immigration and the like. the question around muslims and the like. mike bloomberg is not that candidate. so i'm seeing on my twitter feed all over the place, hearing all over the country as i travel, if they nominate him and add hillary clinton to the, to it as well, oh, my -- or they would say, omg. >> i saw that with hillary clinton. bob costa, final thoughts. a jam-packed two weeks looking ahead. a lot of this i guess will be sussed out a little bit. >> and we all are paying attention to nevada. and to south carolina. but the states that really matter as this race escalates will be on super tuesday.

>> yep. >> in early march. think about arkansas and north carolina, texas, states where mayor bloomberg spent a lot of money and advertising for mayor buttigieg and senator klobuchar and vice president biden, that's the real challenge at this moment, because they may win a media cycle, may win a debate in the next two weeks, but are they ready when 14 states, millions of voters, go to the polls in early march? for bloomberg and his team, they feel like they just continue to air advertisement after advertisement. on all, in all of those states, and that leaves them positioned for a long race potentially against senator sanders. >> robert costa, thank you so much for your reporting. elise hsia in nen dalycia mene d and she has two small babies at hole. you can catch on saturday and sunday on msnbc. thanks very much.

still ahead on "morning joe," few issues define bernie sanders more than his steadfast opinion opposition to the war in iraq. but new reporting if nbc news suggests his opposition to the iraq war was more complicated than he presents. nbc's heidi przybyla joins us with that reporting next on "morning joe." [ distant band playing ] have you ever wondered what the motorcade driver drives when they're not in a motorcade? [ upbeat music starts ] [ engine revving ] ♪ this one drives a volkswagen passat. ♪ it's an honor to tell you that [ applause ] thank you. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance

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do not support legislation that it will allow the president of the united states to unleash a unilateral attack against iraq. >> one of the differences that joe and i have in our record is joe voted for that war. i helped lead the opposition to that war which is a total disaster. >> in 2002 when the congress was debating whether or not we go into a war in iraq, invade iraq,

i got up on the floor of the house and i said that would be a disaster. >> it would lead to unprecedented levels of chaos in the region. and i not only voted against the war i helped lead the effort against that war. >> i listened very carefully, and i concluded that they were lying through their teeth. and i not only voted against that war, but i helped lead the opposition. >> 27 past the hour. senator bernie sanders often touts his opposition to the iraq war and has used that against his presidential rivals, but nbc news correspondent heidi przybyla is here with new reporting that his opposition to the iraq war was more complicated than he presents. so heidi, what did you find out? >> reporter: hi, mika. the war is really something that bernie used to distinguish himself more than anything else

from other candidates and took a closer look at his statements and the voting record from the time and we found while bernie voted differently than other democrats, he actually looked at the same intelligence and made the same conclusion, mika. that was, that the threat from iraq at that time was not imminent, and that the united states should work with the u.n. very similar comments that other democrats, for example, like joe biden, were making, and that bernie's real focus at that time was not on the questioning the intelligence. his real focus was on the unilateral strike. he did not want to see a unilateral strike by the u.s., didn't wan the u.s. to act alone, the difference, a big difference, how they voted. bernie, as you saw, really did go to the mat to say that unilateral strike would be a big mistake, but there also is some evidence here in this voting record that he wasn't completely against the idea of war.

in fact, he voted for an amendment, mika, very similar to one that joe biden fought really hard for in the senate, that many viewed at the time as a substitute for war. it wareally allowed president bh to go to the u.n. and then come back and potentially act unilaterally, if he didn't get u.n. support, and you say, well, you know, a lot of anti-war democrats voted that way. however, mika, some of the democrats who were most against the war did not. they opposed this amendment, and i spoke with them, like representative barbara lee, and she said to me, "some members" -- not talking about bernie, democrats in general. at the time, remember, everybody was scared. thought maybe iraq really did have dmd. some members wanted it both ways. we had enough information to know there were no weapons there. and so the sanders campaign says, look, this was way to stop the war. but when i went back and looked at the coverage at the time of

that amendment, it really was for democrats who wanted to message. it was a messaging tool to say to constituents, we're not completely against the war. just for war under the right circumstances, which is with u.n. support. >> all right. interesting. jonathan lemire? >> heidi, following up on that. seems that bernie sanders seems to get away with not providing a lot of details sometimes. doesn't always get the scrutiny, his record on guns or this here you're reporting. his supporters are passionate and will follow him all the way through even if he's not about naming price tags and how much his proposals will cost. so much of his brand has been being an anti-war candidate pshgs , opposed to the war in iraq. is this going to impact his voters in your estimation? >> it's unclear how it will impact his supporters. remember, his demographic is a lot of younger voters who actually weren't around for this war. we all remember how the fear at

the time of potential wmd really permeated the discourse and how this really was not unusual for many democrats, including bernie, to believe the bush administration, that there were wmd. in fact, it wasn't until 2003 that sanders really started to question whether that intelligence was being manipulated. when he makes these comments, like, i knew they were lying from the start, when i went back to the sanders campaign and asked, what was he talking about? i can't find any report of his questions wmd, they said, well, he was referring to the fact that the threat was not imminent. fair enough. but that is the same as many other democrats at the time. i found comments from joe biden, for example, stressing in a floor speech right before the vote saying, i stress the war, the threat of wmd is not, is not imminent. and my vote for this resolution is to strengthen president bush's hand in going to the u.n.

so you see the objective was the same, in terms of getting u.n. buy-in. the vote very different. bernie was very skeptical and very vocal. he did go all over television and engage in debates and say this is a big mistake. that's a big distinction with some democrats, for example, like hillary clinton, who did go on the floor and say, they're rebuilding their weapon stockpile, for instance. >> heidi przybyla. thank you very much we'll be reading your new reporting at nbcnews.com. appreciate it. now to former u.s. ambassador to ukraine bill taylor's appearance on "60 minutes" yesterday in an incredible piece by scott pelley where he gave his take on russia and on president trump's continued claims of a single dnc computer server hidden in ukraine. >> the russians are fighting a hybrid war against ukraine, but not just about ukraine.

they're fighting a hybrid war against europe and against the united states. >> the war that the russians are fighting in ukraine, we have a stake in? >> we have a stake in. but it's not just the military war. because hybrid war is more than tanks and soldiers. hybrid war is information war. it's cyber war. it's economic war. it's attacks on elections. and as we know, they've attacked our elections. >> did anyone at the state department ever direct you to investigate whether there was a server in ukraine? >> no. >> why not? >> no one took it seriously. >> what are the chances that this whispering campaign about a democratic national committee server in ukraine is actually a russian intelligence operation, a russian disinformation operation? >> the russians are very good at that. it's these fake stories that they have propagated, and that's what they do.

they do it pretty well. we have to be on guard against that. >> yeah. another person really good at that, david ignatius, appears to be especially as we saw in the piece, president trump, who's just obsessing over the airwaves, over the months, over the course of months, about this hidden server in ukraine. >> ambassador taylor's interview is really important, because he focuses attention on this theme that president trump raised in his famous call, july 25, with the new ukraine president zelensky, where's the crowdstrike server? what happened to the crowdstrike server? the short of shorthand for it, and as ambassador taylor reminds us, ukraine is an area where the russians have aggressively practiced disinformation. if you go back and read some of the filings that special prosecutor, special counsel robert mueller made in indicting

russians who were involved in these hacking operations, you'll see that ukraine was a kind of test bed for the techniques they used in 2016 and in the u.s. press central campaign, they used in 2014 in ukraine. he had all the resources for disinformation. what the ambassador is surfacing, an idea i heard from very well-informed members of congress and others, which is that our intelligence agencies believe that this idea that the server got, ended up in ukraine. that ukraine was really doing the meddling has been a deliberate plant of russian disinformation going back several years, that seems to have been taken up by the president and his supporters. >> and the united states. >> and here's taylor saying so pretty emphatically. >> a piece worth watching, if you haven't seen it. david, thank you.

up next, the latest on the coronavirus outbreak. just overnight, two planes carrying evacuated americans landed in the u.s. and more than a dozen of the people onboard tested positive for the virus. nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely joins us next with more on that. to be honest a little dust it never bothered me.

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we're following new developments with the coronavirus outbreak. at least 14 americans who were evacuated from a cruise ship in japan have landed in the u.s. after being infected with the virus. efforts are also under way this morning to trace passengers from a second ship after one of them tested positive. joining us now from hong kong, nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely. bill, what more can you tell us? >> yeah. good morning, mika. around 400 americans are back on u.s. soil, but not back home quite yet, because they've got to spend another 14 days in

quarantine at the two military bases, one in california and one in texas, where they landed, just a few hours ago. as you say, 14 of those passengers tested positive for the virus. they tested two or three days ago. they didn't have any symptoms. got onboard the plane put into isolation units so they would be separate from most of the passengers, but all of them will spend 14 days now in quarantine. some americans chose not to get on that flight. one lawyer saying he felt the plane itself was danger and, of course, around 40 americans are in japanese hospitals. i spoke to one of them yesterday who said he felt a bit abandoned and angry at the u.s. government, because this hadn't been done earlier. there's a real point here, mika, because listen to the latest statistics of infections from that cruise ship. 99 new infections in the last 24

hours. 70 new infections in the 24 hours before that. bringing the total number of infections on the ship to 454. now, remember, only about 1,000, just over 1,000 people are being tested. that's an infection rate of under 50%, and it makes that ship not just the biggest cluster outside china, but it has a higher infection rate than most places in the epicenter of this outbreak in china itself. so real questions to the japanese government, but also to the u.s. government and even the cdc. why did they think it was a good idea to keep people on a ship that, in fact, has been ak incubator for the virus? quickly, one other statistic. the number of deaths in china, 105 new deaths just over 2,000 new infections but scientists are asking, can we really trust

these stick st these stick s these sticktatistics, because, is now under the personal control of president xi and beijing is doing everything it can to protect him and blame local officials. so the issue is, are these statistics not just health statistics but political statistics, too, and remember, also, this virus has no borders. so japan is now worried about the number of new cases, in new places there. so this is serious. >> nbc's bill neely. thank you very much for your reporting. and coming up, our next guest opens her new book by asking the questions, what happened to us? we dig into the unraveling of the middle east and more specifically the year that sparked the downward spiral. "morning joe" is coming right back. as a struggling actor,

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in august 1619, a ship appeared on this horizon, near point comfort, virginia. it carried more than 20 enslaved africans, who were sold to the colonists. no aspect of the country we know today has been untouched by the slavery that followed. america was not yet america, but this was the moment it began. [sfx: typing]

how close were the united states and iran to war? seemed very close to knee from where i was. >> well, i think president trump was misled to believe that the united states would get away with this, that this would augment u.s. security. it worked the other way around. it was the beginning of the end of the u.s. in the region. >> that was nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel's exclusive interview with iran's foreign minister zarif. joins us, co-host of "morning joe" "first look" ayman mohyeldin. also with us, author and veteran middle east reporter kim hatas. am i saying it right? >> perfect. >> her new book "black wave:

saudi arabia, iran and unraveling religion and memory in the middle east." congratulations on the new book. >> thank you. >> david ignatius has the first question for you. david? >> kim, i've admired your reporting for years as you know and i think this book which i've read is superb. people really will enjoy. i ask you to explain to viewers why the year 1979 is central to your thesis and maybe say wen e whether you think the black wave the book describes is maybe receding now at last? >> so glad you asked both of those questions. on the issues what happened in 1979, the iran revolution happened, it turned from a persian kingdom to islamic theocracy and events in saudi arabia as well, the attack against the holy mosque in mecca, in november of 1979, by saudi zealots, soviet invasion

of afghanistan. those three events seemingly unrelated but became completely intertwined and what they did is unleash leashed the rivalry between iran and so wanted to up stage the saudis as leaders of the muslim world. he wanted to reach beyond the borders of iran and the shia community and felt unmined and challenged in that. so two countries previously happy to be rivals, perfectly happy to be friends became mortal enemies after that and the ripples of that rivalry over 40 years and how they used religion and culture and influenced society to change who we are and hijack our collective memory changed the region. i do look at the younger

generation and i see how they're trying to push back against sectarian politics and the darkness that engulfed us. there's a culture, some of them paid with their lives like a good friend but a lot of peopl are keying to be heard. we're starting to hear them more now in the west. congratulations on the book. we always benefit with people on the ground reporting. we're obviously in the middle of a heated political season. what do you think this country misunderstands or does not understand about the middle east

that you could do a better job of explaining so that when our politicians were elected and we have a better sense of what's going on there as well. look i think there are several misconceptions. one is this whole idea that sunis and shia always killed each other. that's not correct. they have probably killed each other less than catholics and protestants over the course of history. so it's important to know that it's not eternal and if it wasn't always like that it doesn't mean it doesn't need to always be like that. change is possible otherwise it's too easy to say it's been like that. let's just give up. saudi arabia and iran have not always been rivals. it's possible. i think right now it's hard with the current leadership of both

countries. you might have it. i don't think they're going to be friends again. it's important to listen to the people and look beyond the headlines. we are more than just that and if you read this book which is really like a 1,001 nights of mid eastern politics you'll discover the poetry and lyrics and music and incredible people that are there and want a different future. >> how do we get that to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> good. >> let me ask this question, it's important to shift the narrative focus for us to kind of understand the internal dynamics of the region, to talk about the story but how do we

keep track of follpolicies of t west in the region. and talk a little bit about the role of u.s. policy. >> absolutely. i mean i don't focus on u.s. policies in this book. the agency and they have done and i think it's important for the united states. to understand the role that these two countries play in driving the action forward. it's also too easy to just blame everything on the united states. i don't absolve the united states of the mistakes that it has made and there are many but it's important to understand that the rivalry between iran and saudi arabia is part of this

triangle with the united states and that they both, both iran and saudi arabia play a role in what is going on in the region and they play the u.s. in their games as well. i think that's important to realize. >> the new book is black wave, saudi arabia, iran and the 40 year rivalry that unraveled culture, and memory in the middle east. thank you for joining us today. there's still no word if mike bloomberg will take the debate stage this wednesday but the other democratic candidates are challenging his record in a big way. plus when tech executives won't let their own kids use social media, you might think something might be wrong. we'll dig into the growing problem of online addiction. ahead on morning joe. ♪

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democrats don't agree on everything accept perhaps michael bloomberg. welcome to morning joe. it's monday, february 17th.

president's day. joe and willie have the morning off. i'm here. with us we have the white house reporter for the associated press. we're here. we love it. columnist and associated editor for the washington post. former chief of staff to the dccc and former director for strategic communications for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. boy do we have a lot to talk about adrien and host of the national action network. reverend i was watching you last night but there was no shortage of news on this holiday. president trump reportedly infuriated by the justice department decision not to prosecute the former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. new calls for william barr to step down this time from within. from more than 1100 former federal prosecutors and justice

department officials. and he'll talk about the apparent deal with the taliban and he calls it trump's afghan gamble. it's just the beginning of an extremely conventisequential de for the party. to south carolina the following week and peaking with super tuesday. we'll be witnessing a no holds barred fight for how the democrats will choose to combat trump. a fight which in many ways is for the soul of the party. will it be the far left or the more moderate wing? radical change or inkplenal fixes? do they want to defeat trump or go bigger to defeat trumpism? will it be a grass roots revolution or driven by big money. will voters demand racial accountability? will we see party purity?

as the democrats campaigned this weekend a lot of their focus was on someone that won't even be on the ballot for another two weeks. michael bloomberg won't be on the ballot in neff nvada saturdr on the ballot in south carolina one week after that. the former new york city mayor rises in the national polls and democrats are sharpening their attacks before his first big test on super tuesday, just 15 days from today. so here's a bit of what we heard from bloomberg's rivals over the weekend. >> $60 billion can buy you a lot of advertising but it can't erase your record. there's a lot to talk about with michael bloomberg. you're going to start focussing on him like you have on me. which i'm not complaining. >> what kind of ally would you have called michael bloomberg for the obama administration? >> on several issues, like guns, he was a real ally.

he was a real ally. but if you notice he wouldn't even endorse barrack in 2008. he wouldn't endorse him. you know, he endorsed bush. he endorsed the republican before that. all of a sudden he's his best buddy. you know? and he would not endorse him. take a look at the stop and frisk proposal. you take a look at his ideas on red lining he's talking about. you take a look at what he has done relative to the african american community. >> like i have come on your show multiple times and a number of other candidates have come on and answered tough questions, he has to do the same thing. he hasn't gone on a sunday show since he announced. instead he's just running ads and i don't think you should be able to hide behind the ads. i think you should not only go on these shows but i think he should take the debate stage. that's why i have actually been supportive of him on the debate stage because i can't beat him on the air waves but i can beat him on the debate stage. >> the part i object to is the

billionaire being able to reach into his own pocket and throw down a couple of hundred million in order to finance their campaign. because that just short circuits all of democracy. >> regardless of how much money a multibillionaire candidate is willing to spend on his election, we will not create the energy and excitement we need to defeat donald trump if that candidate pursued, advocated for and enacted racist policies like stop and frisk. with communities of color in his city to live in fear. >> okay. so we have a couple of issues to break down as it pertains to michael bloomberg. obviously his money. a lot of people are complaining that he's buying it. that he's bypassing the other

normal processes with this election. there's complaints from women about how he has treated women but reverend i was watching your closing remarks last night on your show. stop and frisk which is policy he inherited. he expanded over the course of three terms. he even pushed back when the courts deemed it unconstitutional. i saw you giving him a little bit of room, to sort of, i don't know. come clean. get past it. but what exactly does someone who pushed a policy like this who has heard quoted in conversations saying things that are pretty rough racially and has just decided to say he's sorry because he's running for president, like, i don't know what he could do to actually prove that this won't happen again in another way. perhaps you could share with me

what you expect. i don't know what he can do either but i think the challenge is that we can't just settle for a speech or a tour of speeches asking for forgiveness. there ought to be some effort on his part to say and therefore i want to try and repair the damages done by this. some kind of criminal justice initiative. i also don't want to see him as a leaf that the other candidates dump some of their racial baggage. i want to know what bernie is going to say about the vote he did for the crime bill where people went to jail in the crime bill no matter what his reason for voting for it, it was a law that encars rated people. joe biden wrote it. amy klobuchar that she

prosecuted in minnesota. so i want them to attack bloomberg to cover the fact that all of them have racial baggage. we can reconcile but let's recognize that. >> i understand that about the other candidates that you mentioned but they're in the race. they're facing these questions. they're out mixing with the voters. they're actually participating in primaries and the voters will get to decide especially in south carolina. but as it pertains to michael bloomberg, three four year terms he expanded it and he fought for it fcorrect? >> correct. >> he doesn't have to participate in this process. >> we have never seen this before. a candidate skipping the first four states entirely. just stop and frisk you're

right. he also expanded it dramatically while he was mayor only dialing it down at the end of his third term in part for legal action. his hand was forced by the courts. so i wanted to get to you where we are right now. the idea about a purity test. this is someone whose record is obviously being scrutinized right now. and i think that there will be more of this. let's remember in 2004, he endorsed george w. bush and beyond that turned over the keys of new york city to him for that year's republican national convention and presided over protestors. it got a lot of action about bloomberg's treatment of women and comments he made about them while he was in charge of his company. what do you think? democratic voters as they learn more about him is this something that's going to be a problem or because they want to meet trump should they make a compromise with them? >> you bring up an important point. there's still a lot of information that voters across

the board in the democratic primary don't know about michael bloomberg because they have seen the slew of ads he has run. he has run $300 million so far. pretty close to it in television with more to come so you have seen a lot of the television ads but you haven't actually heard that much from michael bloomberg on the national stage. he is in a couple of national interviews. he has of course done rallies and events across the country in key super tuesday states. that's why i think wednesday night is going to be such a big test for him even though he's not on the ballot until super tuesday, march 2nd. it's going to be a huge test for him and voters will ultimately decide what is important for him. i think as you look at joe biden's numbers decline there is a rally around mike bloomberg in terms of believing that he is the most electable against trump or potentially the most electable against trump. but the real question is how do voters respond to these allegations? mike bloomberg will certainly be

in the hot seat. clips that you show from the sunday shows this past weekend really demonstrate what is to come on wednesday night. he's one away and we all assume he's going to get that probably tomorrow at some point but it's going to be a real test and ultimately the question is where do black voters stand? how do they accept his stop and frisk policies? do they forgive him? do they decide to kind of go as not necessarily a block but do they shift their support from biden to bloomberg? do they find an alternative candidate to support instead? that is the real question. >> if elected president, which one would voters get?

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welcome back to morning joe. we have been talking about mike bloomberg's candidacy for president and how potential voters will come to view his largely unexamined record on the national stage. here's how the president of it put it on meet the press yesterday. >> this is where it's going to get tough. who is going to show up for the american public? is it going to be mayor bloomberg or philanthropist bloomberg? i say this because philanthropist bloomberg invested heavily on planned parenthood for women's voice and gun reform and every single issue that will expand the base

and bring in a bigger tent. mayor blomberg when he talks about red lining and stop and frisk has been incredibly damaging to some of those policies. so as he roles out his persona he's going to have to be able to answer directly what is happening and who is going to show up. >> it could be both. >> let's bring in michael. he's the page one editor. also historian, author of the soul of america and the professor of the presidency at vanderbilt university. he's msnbc contributor. i'll start with you just sort of to give us a historical perspective, what does this look like to you. what does this remind you of? >> you have this unconventional figure from new york that's forcing a lot of folks like us

to sit around and talk about the norms and conventions and ordinary road sides of american politics that may or may not still apply. this is the clearest test to me of whether the trump effect on our policies is durable. because everything that we said was going to sink donald trump all the way through "access hollywood" in october of 2016 didn't. because he defied the rules of political gravity. the question was, we know he defied them, did he repeal them? and ordinarily a lot of these kinds of questions would create a lot of stories on the front page of the wall street journal and elsewhere that would have a effect on bloomberg but he was mayor of the nation's largest city for 12 years. he can be very blunt.

i suspect he is being blunt about his bluntness and may in fact play very well. and i think to what extent to americans care about having a perfect and packaged candidate and be aware of every other norm. >> it's to get to know the candidate and see how they do with the voters. we have a stop and frisk policy which is a big question about michael bloomberg which is carried out and pushed and expanded over the course of three terms. that's usually not what happens in new york city and it doesn't anymore but first democrats won in part with bloomberg's money in 2018. they depended on that money. >> no question. he was a huge benefactor to the congressional races in 2018. he's been a leader on some

democratic issues like gun control and the environment. but now there's a scrutiny of what he has done before and i covered mayor bloomberg for a time here in new york but not as extensively or as long as you did. remind us how that came about and how mayor bloomberg ended up serving three terms, 12 years. >> he was first elected in 201, reelected in 2005 and as soon as he started his second term there was a lot of talk about him running for president so in 2007 he left the republican party and became unaffiliated with any party as he was starting his running for the presidency. well, when 2008 rolled around he decided not to take the plunge and he didn't run for president and the question was well what am i going to do now? there was a term limit law that prevented him from running for a third term and he decided he wanted to run for a third term. >> any other mayor decided they wanted a third term. >> yes. >> there were other mayors.

>> were they successful? >> many were deemed unsuccessful. if you ask michael bloomberg he'll say it was more successful. >> but did they get through and serve a third term like michael bloomberg. >> yes. >> so it has precedent. >> it does have precedent but the voters voted twice to prevent mayors for running for a third term. >> he worked with the state counsel and pressured them and used his resources, right? >> he used his resources and philanthropy. there was a lot of criticism that he was leaning on folks he had given money to to get them to help convince the city council to overcome the law. >> how would you describe him in terms of his leadership style? >> i would describe him as somebody that's intent on getting things done. it's a little like his slogan. when he first ran in 2001, he

had never had any experience in government and he was able to convince folks after, you know, a 40 point deficit in the polls. >> now you were also up close and personal as he was a candidate and mayor. he didn't run against a fierce opposition although he was an underdog in 2001 and it was after giuliani endorsed him that sent him skyrocketing in the polls. more attention to his rallies, she going to have to do more interviews and so on, what kind of retail politician is he? he hahn done it in years. >> he's definitely rusty and he's never been a great retail politician. he's a business man. that's been his career. sure he has been in government for 12 years as mayor but in terms of retail politicking is he the warm fuzzy person on the campaign trail? absolutely not. >> i don't think he would say he is.

i can't unsee the video of him shaking a dog's head in vermont which is funny and i think he takes himself with a sense of humor but when i -- when you read about the come plaplaints have made about his lip style and also the ndas or agreements when they felt they were harassed or spoken to inappropriately did not surprise you? >> no, it didn't surprise me. most of the allegations are from before he was mayor and they were in the lawsuits and all of these allegations were aired during his campaigns for mayor so i certainly wasn't surprised by them but those are serious allegations and if you're running for president they're fair game. >> all right. thank you so much. coming up, the reemergence of the moderate democrat. he is looking into that and we'll dig into his new column on morning joe. [crackling fire]

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you have written the column

about the reemergence of the moderate democrat. i'd like to know what that means and where bernie sanders plays in that. he appears to be on the upper end of winning so far. as i looked at the results of the first two contest and bernie sanders does get and he makes the noise and the party they're telling you something. which is in this botched iowa caucus ended up not paying that much attention to. mayor pete buttigieg had a break out win. a guy whose main campaign theme with long debates. and proposals on medicare for all. he was the moderate guy that was

going to talk sense and he won in iowa. bernie won but he won narrowly. buttigieg came in a strong second but what was striking was when you add -- i'm going to call them moderate numbers. buttigieg about 23% and amy klobuchar at nearly 20, you end up with a much larger total than for bernie or bernie plus elizabeth warren, the other progressive candidate so it just seemed to me that we were missing the fact that in the first two races the move maybe toward the center and not toward the wing as people often have been assuming. the problem as i look at this is that it was a moderate aggregate it seems. people want to go out and be

more extreme donald trump. aggregates don't win elections. from 2016 it was all of the candidates and added up to a lot more than donald trump and the charismatic populous. that's the parallel to 2016 to remember. and if there is a moderate plurality in the party, there's a desire for a candidate like this to read. biden is fading. he is going to be the standard bearer for that view. the question is whether moderates are going to be able to come together behind a single candidate. after super tuesday after some more results. that's a really interesting puzzle. suppose bloomberg does well. could we really imagine them stepping back with all the money

falling out of his pockets. more and more people worry we're heading toward a democratic convention in milwaukee with lots of people that will be a blood bath. >> what could be a second term for donald trump seems more possible than ever. >> next on morning joe. ♪ ♪wild thing, you make my heart sing.♪

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the decision came the same day it was revealed that a federal judge months ago expressed concerns that mccabe's case was

looking like a banana republic. president trump was infuriated by the move not to prosecute. he told the washington post. sources tell nbc news that the justice department has now opened an inquiry into the criminal case against former national security adviser michael flynn. we're told the attorney general has assigned the u.s. attorney for the eastern district of missouri to conduct a review it seems a little weird doesn't it? the justice department declined the comment. why? i don't get it. in an open letter posted online yesterday. more than 1100 federal

prosecutors got him to design after he intervened in the roger stone case last week. they write in part each of us strongly condemns president trump and attorney general barr's interference in the fair administration of justice. they go on to say mr. barr's actions in doing the president's personal bidding unfortunately speaks louder than his words. those actions and the damage they have done to the department of justice's reputation for integrity and the rule of law require mr. barr to re-sign. and the washington post is reporting that federal prosecutors from the southern district of new york are contacted witnesses and seeking to collect additional documents in an investigation related to president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani. the recent steps indicate that the probe involving giuliani and his two former associates he was

briefed on the investigation in manhattan shortly after taking office a year ago but his involvement is unclear. both a spokeswoman for the justice department declined to comment. in a text message on friday, giuliani said he has not been contacted by investigators. he wrote in part, quote, they have not asked me for a single thing and i didn't do anything remotely illegal and can demonstrate that if they ever care to ask. i do believe it's unfair if they are investigating but i have no indication that they are. with all of that as a backdrop, let's bring in new york magazine's editor in chief.

the magazine's latest issue takes a hypothetical look at what a second trump term might look like and we can start with your magazine saying a second term would mean for the justice department because right now, it's pretty shaky. it's a shaky time. what would the justice department look like under a second term for trump? >> well, what we did with this project was invite a large number of contributors to analyze the term. they wrote about the justice department and i don't think that she had a bombshell revelation. i think what she predicted was that what you're seeing escalate in the last few months if barr's

tenure would be in the second term and much more a politics of revenge and the -- the distance between politics at the white house and administering of justice will collapse. obviously speaker pelosi is well. and when it comes to seeking retribution. >> you just have to imagine that that would be his primary

motivation. and that's a very personal attitude toward business and a focus on those that have wronged him and seeking retribution. and he's probably both angry and liberated. >> just looking at the magazine stresses you. >> and you have an essay about the extraordinary stress. that will emerge. we're already in a civil war. >> just from my perspective as a

magazine editor i'm sure that we can make the magazine and put him on the cover and every issue that he warrants that from a news per spespective but it's exhausting for all of us as journalists and readers it will be a stressful time. more than half would have arrived without the popular vote. all of them republican. that would be a very difficult scenario to retain your faith in the democratic process. >> so looking at what is

happening now in the lead up to super tuesday let's talk about that reality. president trump winning a second term. >> it's real. is it not? >> absolutely. it's something that we talk about all the time. anybody that thinks that democrats have this in the bag, especially when you look at the battleground polls, i mean those numbers are not real right now and we know that the trump campaign has not spent the real money they plan to spend in this general election. trump is on pace to appoint more judges than obama did in his

first term. i'm wondering if you can talk about the real consequences. we talk about this all the time but let's say that trump gets reelected and he can flip the supreme court. how do you see some of the consequences playing out in a trump second term? it's very likely and just as convention s consequential is the number of appointments he can make across the spectrum. one thing that set up the piece is he pointed out there's so much of the world of business that is assuming that he will only be a one term president so there's a lot of behavior

responding to the trump administration that is hedging against a forever trumpism. and that behavior would probably stop and you would find, for instance, as jonathan was writing that the automobile companies that chose to push back against his gutting of the emissions standards, in part they're doing that because they just assumed that what he was doing was a temporary move to the right and they would have to have a long-term plan to get back. that calculation falls apart. >> okay. the new issue of new york magazine imagines what a second trump term would look like. the magazine's editor in chief. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> up next an important conversation about kids and social media and what's happening to their brains. and before we go to break, we kick off the week with my advice to women. the monday motivation.

it's about crying at work. i don't think this is a tough one but there's some debate over this. no crying at work is not an absolute rule but it's definitely something that you want to stay away from and i tell you why in the monday motivation but i also want to hear from you on this one. send your thoughts to nbcuni.com. also on the site, how i kicked off the heels and never ever put them back on. it's worth trying. we'll be right back.

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and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. a new report points to social media and smartphones as a potential cause of mental distress. researchers analyze dozens of studies and the negative effects of social media on teen's wellbeing is on the rise. so it may be no surprise that even when the titans of the tech industry admit to limiting social media use in their kids, case and point, apple ceo tim cook that said i don't have a kid but i have a nephew that i put some boundaries on. there are some things that i won't allow. i don't want them on a social

network. >> and a leading expert on anxiety disorders from harvard medical school and mcclain hospital in belmont massachusetts. you work with a lot of teens wh media. what's the warning that you think parents need to hear about social media. >> i think there are huge challenges with social media. it is hard to get your kids off social media. i think the first thing i tell parents is that parents need help figuring out how to parent kids nowadays with social media. really we give very little help to parents to help them figure this out. you need to work with, talk with your kids about social media, what's on their social media, who are they talking to on social media. >> what does that conversation look like? >> i think the first thing, one of the things that happens often, parents say no social media. >> right. >> which makes perfect sense, it makes perfect sense, but there is a time in kids' lives it

becomes hard to limit that, right? maybe they don't go on their own social media but go on their friends' social media, they go to the library, makeup a social media account their parents don't know about. first big thing is open communication about social media. all we know the older teens when they're told no, they go underground. we want that social media above ground. we want to know what they're doing and want them to feel comfortable telling us. as parents, we can't be afraid of it. >> it is not like you can deny it. it is going to show up. kids as young as 11 now have phones. this can be tough. we'll do the good, bad, the ugly and the benefits, which is the conundrum. while social media can lead to real problems for families and young people which i want to get into more, there are benefits, some up sides. you work with millions of young

readers that you get to on social media. >> yes. i think it is also an incredibly powerful platform for young people to make their voices heard and to find niche communities of support. there's no such thing as being isolated any more. you can find someone across the globe that has the same belief system, has gone through what you have. i think there's value. as a professional tool, as a way to connect and get yourself out there in the job market. >> makes a lot of sense. joe has a question. >> one medical study after another shows that social media, especially heavy iphone or smart phone usage increases depression, anxiety, especially in teenage girls. we've seen increased suicide rates. it is not like ten years from now. we can pretend as parents or just as american citizens that

we didn't see the health care crisis coming. this reminds me of early days of cigarettes where some people still disregarded all of the medical warnings but it is right there and it is right in front of our face, and it is teenage girls according to a "the wall street journal" article, study after study that bear the disproportionate impact of mental damage. >> absolutely. so we know this is a huge risk factor, it is particularly high for girls. there's much higher rates of suicidal thinking and depression that's very much linked to the number of hours that girls are on screens. we know that it is more significant with girls because girls are on more social media. right? so this is the challenge and conundrum we face. boys tend to use smart phones for more gaming. girls tend to do it for more social connection. >> it plays into the weaknesses

girls grow up with. their looks, what's expected of them and everything is so unrealistic out there, it actually tends to sort of put a hyper focus on things you feel maybe you can't measure up. >> used to be my generation, you had the seventeen magazine, cosmo, now the entire world. >> every second of your day. >> even within your own community i was pretty shocked last time i was hanging out with my 17-year-old cousin, the way kids track each other. it is exclusive. you know when you're missing out on some social engagement because everyone is constantly tracking. how do you balance the good of being connected with the rising anxiety that it raises, knowing that you might not be part of a group. >> i think it is all about

intentionality. that's what i see with cosmo readers. 76% of readers feel it is, quote, necessary to take a week-long break from instagram for mental health. so much of their lives and friends' lives are on the platform. for them to be willing to opt out is telling about their awareness of the need for mental health management. >> we have to help adolescents do this. this is not natural as we get older, we have a more developed executive functioning system that says wait a minute, i need a break. this is too much. social media unfortunately it works. this is what i tell kids that are success, our reward pathway gets going. we feel good, we get likes, want

to look for more likes. then we feel good. we post more things. i think we have to help teens manage this. we are better able, not great, better able to manage this as adults than teens. it is all about intentionality, what state of mind am i in when i look at social media. if i'm in a more sad or depressed or lonely state of mind, that's my mental filter for social media. >> joe? >> jillian, help me. sounds counter intuitive. social media is making children more solitary, from "the wall street journal" article i referenced earlier. research from university of michigan shows since 2007 the dawn of smart phone era girls have dramatically increased amount of time shopping, seeing friends, going to movies. we found girls spend saturday nights home alone watching

netflix, surfing social media, they talk about decrease of friends, dramatic decrease of friends. many are drinking to their mother and becoming far less self sufficient than people from earlier generations. why? >> why is because of this, social media, fear of missing out, got to see what's there, what can i post. it is true. kids don't go hang out any more. they don't hang out in the mall, play outside. this is where parents can do some intervention. we need to start encouraging many more social outlets, and they'll bring phones unfortunately, but i would rather have kids with phones out doing something together than sitting alone in their room. this is what happens. this is where things get risky. i'm alone, in my room, on my social media, and realize my friends went out without me. >> what do you recommend to

readers? obviously the girls, there's a huge social experiment that's been unfurled. girls are bearing the brunt of it. what do you recommend to readers, you talked about a week off from social media. daily health habits, mental health habits with social media and smart phone usage. >> it is hard to resist this sort of natural gravitational pull to constant comparison mode when you look at posts. hard to avoid quantification of value based on how posts perform. i like to tell young people to focus on wielding power of social media. think that's a very important tool. i tell them reach out to someone in the industry you respect, comment on a post, send a direct message, compliment them on

work. over time if you build a rapport, ask them to coffee, ask them to tell you how they got where they are because you want to emulate their path. >> mika, talking about the comparison culture, we see it at home firsthand where often you will pit our cat against our dog for who gets the most likes. meatball usually wins. how does it make scout feel. >> that's why she's on prozac. way too much information. thank you so much. i love that you ask viewers to take a week off. saying don't read us, don't go on our feed for a week. it is the right thing to do. >> sacrifice. >> it is. >> great team. incredible topic. i have a feeling we'll be talking about it a lot more. that does it for us this morning.

stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage now. good morning, everyone. i am stephanie ruhle. it is monday, february 17th. here's what's happening. we're less than one week from nevada caucuses and two days from the next democratic debate in las vegas, hosted by nbc news and msnbc. as the candidates campaign across the state, prepare to make final pitches to voters, the party is trying to avoid an iowa snafu part two. there are new concerns about technology nevada is using after forced to abandon the app that caused chaos in iowa. the campaigns haven't been briefed how key parts of the process will work. this as frontrunners left in the race ramp up attacks against michael bloomberg. we have warriors across the state. let's go to garrett haake in ga