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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  February 17, 2020 2:00pm-3:00pm PST

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>> it's a lot of pressure, right? >> let's let the voters decide. i don't want to put my finger on the scale. >> my thanks to mara, charlie and jonathan. most of all thanks to you for watching. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" with the fabulous katy tur in for chuck todd starts now. it's monday, it is "meet the press daily." i'm katy tur in new york in for chuck todd. we begin with a double dose of angst for establishment democrats. angst over the rise of bernie sanders, whose electability they question and angst over michael bloomberg, whose record they question. the crisis for moderates comes as sanders, fresh off a victory in new hampshire, appears to be the front-runner to win in nevada, which holds its caucuses
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this saturday. and as bloomberg, who isn't even campaigning in the first four contests is now polling in double digits in national polls, this weekend joe biden, pete buttigieg and amy klobuchar all went after the former new york city mayor for his past comments and for, in their words, trying to buy this election. >> $60 billion can buy you a lot of advertising, but it can't erase your record. >> this is a time where voters are looking for a president who can lead us out of the days when it was just commonplace or accepted to have these kinds of sexist and discriminatory attitudes. and, you know, right now this is our chance to do something different. >> he just can't hide behind the air waves. he has to answer questions, and of course i think he should be on that debate stage, which eventually he will be, because i can't beat him on the air waves but i can beat him on the debate stage. and i think people of america deserve that to make a decision. >> sanders, meanwhile, has made
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bloomberg a part of his stump speech. >> democracy to me means one person, one vote, not bloomberg or anybody else spending hundreds of millions of dollars trying to buy an election. >> bloomberg, meanwhile, is fighting back against sanders, releasing this web video criticizing the alleged online behavior of some of his supporters. and therein lies the dilemma establishment democrats face right now as joe biden's support tumbles and moderates splinter. bernie sanders who doesn't even identify totally as a democrat is rising in the polls but is an alternative for democrats a billionaire with baggage who himself used to recently be a republican. it is a dilemma joe biden articulated to our own nicolle
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wallace just a moment ago. >> is a former republican who just turned democrat most likely to defeat donald trump? is bernie a democratic socialist a good guy, is he most likely to defeat donald trump? who's most likely to defeat donald trump? i've been saying from the beginning that i think the most critical thing that has to happen is we have to elect someone who in fact can run in those purple states, win pennsylvania, win in florida, win in places where we haven't won before, didn't win last time, and up to now i have the most diverse support. >> the dilemma could come to a head soon. bloomberg is one national poll away from qualifying for wednesday night's debate and his campaign this afternoon confirmed that he will participate if he does qualify. for more, i'm joined by nbc's garrett haake who's covering the sanders campaign in henderson, nevada, mike memoli who is in reno with the biden campaign and
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josh lederman in las vegas. bloomberg is not competing in las vegas, he won't be on the caucus ballot on saturday, also not competing in south carolina, but he is the name on everybody's tongue. how is the campaign -- why is the campaign deciding right now to focus on bernie sanders when up until now they basically only focused on donald trump? >> reporter: yeah, i think you characterized that dilemma that democrats are facing exactly right. look, bloomberg is making a billion dollar bet. he is betting that at the end of the day, democrats will care more about defeating donald trump than they are going to care about fighting the millionaires and billionaires, as bernie sanders puts it, or reducing the role of money in politics. so far it looks like that strategy is paying off for him. he's now in the double digits. but at the end of the day, katy, we won't really know until the super tuesday contest when he's finally competing. remember, the way you win the nomination is not by numbers in the polls but by delegates. the number of delegates mike
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bloomberg has is zero. >> josh, if he is on the debate stage on wednesday, it's the first time he's on a debate stage since 2008-2009 when he was running for new york city mayor. it's also going to be a lot different than the debates he had here in the city. what are they saying about the expectations for how he is going to perform at that debate, and are they concerned about what he might face from the other candidates? >> reporter: well, his campaign knows full well that if he is on that debate stage in las vegas on wednesday he will be in the center of a circular firing squad. it will be all attacks on mike bloomberg has has been preveed by all of the candidates on the campaign trail the past few days. it's kind of an odd situation where you have other candidates like klobuchamy klobuchar wanti on the debate stage more than he himself wants to be on the debate stage. usually in this campaign it's been the opposite with everybody
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trying to get on the stage to get free air time. but bloomberg can define the way he wants with his ads. the question is can he portray himself as effectively when he has to be on the spot answering questions from moderators as well as his other democratic rivals. >> garrett haake, bernie sanders has now made mike bloomberg part of a stump speech. he's using it now as a way to rally his supporters. >> reporter: yeah, look, the sanders campaign has never been just a campaign, it's also a political cause. the ideas of pushing back, taking back government from the 1%, from millionaires and billionaires were as a part of bernie sanders' stump speech back when there wasn't a billionaire in the oval office. so the idea that he might use another new york billionaire as a foil here should not surprise anyone. elizabeth warren is doing a little of the same thing. mike bloomberg is a very useful foil for bernie sanders. if he's going to cast himself as the not somebody, it's a lot easier to be the not bloomberg to appeal to that progressive
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base of voters than it is to be the not biden, who is still popular even among voters who aren't choosing to vote for him. michael bloomberg makes a perfect target for bernie sanders in that way. >> let's talk about joe biden who was just on a moment le wal. mike, i was talking to a campaign aide who said their entire focus was on south carolina. that's part of the reason he left new hampshire to go to south carolina on primary night. are they conceding that nevada is just a state that they have to pay lip service to right now or are they expecting to do well there? >> reporter: no, in fact just the opposite, katy. i think a lot of us were asking the question after that quick trip to south carolina on the night of the new hampshire primary why isn't he just staying in south carolina the entire time, why is he splitting time here in nevada as he is this week when he could be reinforcing that firewall in south carolina. but the biden campaign feels about as good about nevada as
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they probably could for a number of reasons. remember a week ago we were talking about dread for the biden campaign after new hampshire until south carolina. but there's a poll that shows him in second place here. he's got good support from organized labor which has an outsized influence in nevada in a way we haven't seen in other states. he's been able to focus his sights on bernie sanders, while everyone else is focused on mike bloomberg and he's adding to that as well. so what they see nevada as an opportunity to do is to build some momentum heading into south carolina but also bring an infusion of cash frankly that they need in order to be on the air for super tuesday. and so they're probably spending more time in nevada than some people think is advisable, especially as it can be something of a crap shoot. >> mike memoli, weedi got the majority of your report as you
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were cutting out. with me now is jonathan alter, john podhoretz, an msnbc contributor. okay, guys, it is all about michael bloomberg right now. john, what's your take? >> well, obviously he's on everybody's lips, but that also raises the expectations for him. we're now in the expectations phase of this campaign where how you do is largely a function of how everybody thought you were going to do beforehand. bloomberg's problem going into this debate is he's rusty. even barack obama at the beginning of the debate season was losing most of the debates. trump didn't do well in the republican debates at the beginning. >> didn't really matter, his voters didn't care. >> but it helped them. there's always a learning curve. so these other democrats have been getting better and better in debates and bloomberg has to start out, he's going to be the
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target of all of the shots and expectations are high. same thing with bernie. so bernie, having tied in iowa and won narrowly in new hampshire, even though he shed more than half of his support from 2016, he is expected to win the nevada caucuses. if he does not, his campaign is in trouble. so in some ways, warren and biden, even though their campaigns are on life support, are advantaged by the expectations game. >> john, you've lived here forever. >> oh, yeah. >> almost forever. for a long time. you remember michael bloomberg octob on the debate stage, i presume. >> oh, yeah. he's not good at it, by the way. >> and the competition here was not as stiff. >> it was not as stiff. let's talk about michael bloomberg's third campaign for mayor because it's an interesting contrast to now. he had the laws changed in new york to end term limits, which
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were then reimposed the minute he won his third term. he spent in the city $150 million to get his second re-election and he got 51% of the vote. billy thompson, who was running on the democratic line, spent $6 million, got 46% of the vote. bloomberg does not wear well over time. now, maybe you could say that was because he screwed around with the rules and it's not fair, but you can say that now. he's trying to do something no one has ever done before, which is buy the nomination. i think it's almost openly the fact that he's trying to buy the nomination. and i don't know how this is going to wear the minute that he actually has to interact. all he's been doing now is putting himself up in states, spending $400 million. >> so whose candidacy is going to be a real test for the democratic party? what do they care about more, do they care about their ideals more, the democratic values
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more? you can argue that bloomberg upholds a lot of those, but do they care about the base values, the movement values, more than they care about finding somebody, anybody at all who they think can best beat donald trump? >> it's really interesting because it's hard to say right now because the party as a whole is so splintered. that's why we've seen the moderates like pete buttigieg and amy klobuchar and joe biden targeting mike bloomberg because he is yet another factor who has splintered the moderate part of the race so far. that's why they're attacking him. then when you look at bernie sanders, the reason he is attacking bloomberg is because he likely sees this race as a two-way race between him and bloomberg, where sanders is commanding largely the progressive wing of the party and bloomberg seems to be picking up a lot of support among moderates. i think we'll figure out what the democratic party's main focus is as the field narrows. i think wednesday's debate will be a big part of that. we were talking about how everyone is going to be training
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their fire on michael bloomberg. so if he's not able to adequately deflect those blows, that could be a death knell for his campaign. >> kevin cheekey, head of the campaign for mike bloomberg said at this point the primary's is bernies to loose, ours to win. that's why they're all united in the campaign against mike. they know that we're the most fearsome candidate. >> there is no death knell for mike bloomberg's campaign. the only reason anybody drops out is when they're out of money. so he will be -- it's increasingly looking like there are decent odds that we have a brokered convention where it goes to a second ballot. >> every time we do any story about any primary, this guy says brokered convention. >> i didn't say anything. >> it used to be the thing we said as a dream for political reporters because it would be so exciting. but now it actually very well
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might happen. >> if he takes trump's playbook in 2016 which is be everywhere all the time, it doesn't matter what they're saying as long as they're talking to you, if he takes that playbook and uses it in 2020 on the democratic side, are voters on the democratic side as open to that, as open to whatever in this era as republicans were in 2016? >> i don't think so. i think what trump exposed as the haollowness of the establishment republican support among base republicans who were angry at them and didn't like them and didn't like how they behaved in washington. and every piece of data that we have about democrats is they quite like everybody. it's not like they hate the other democrats running. they may think that they shouldn't -- >> i talk to democrats left and right, ones who did not like bloomberg as mayor. some of his chief political foes in this city, very outspoken,
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who say that if he is the nominee, if it comes to that, they will happily campaign for him. >> any blue will do. i heard that a lot in both iowa and new hampshire. >> john alter, john podhoretz and sonom, do not go anywhere. nbc is hosting the democratic debate from las vegas. chuck todd, lester holt and hallie jackson will moderate along with two others. ahead, 2020 rivals are taking on former new york mayor michael bloomberg by taking on his record. does his past threaten his future? to be honest a little dust it never bothered me. until i found out what it actually was. dust mite droppings! eeeeeww! dead skin cells! gross! so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy-duty dusters. duster extends to three feet to get all that gross stuff gotcha! and for that nasty dust on my floors, my sweeper's on it.
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welcome back. with bloomberg just one qualifying poll away from making the debate stage in nevada, he is now fielding some serious questions about his record. his past comments on race, stop and frisk and women now risk
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defining his $400 million so far campaign and unrivaled spending spree that itself has been criticized as an attempt to buy the nomination. with me now is the democrat, a democrat from florida, congresswoman stephanie murphy who recently endorsed michael bloomberg. welcome to "meet the press daily." first off, michael bloomberg's past is now coming back up and that stems from, as we said, comments about women, stop and frisk, comments about education, red lining. with all that's out there, why have you chosen to endorse michael bloomberg and come on this program to tell us why? >> i endorsed michael bloomberg because i know he's the candidate who can beat donald trump in november. look, a lot of the things that you just listed, all of those things have come up in previous elections that mike has run. >> not stop and frisk. >> some of these things happened over 30 years ago, some things didn't happen at all. as relates to stop and frisk, he's acknowledged that he was slow to recognize the impact
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that it's had on communities of color. he's apologized for that, which i think is a sign of a good leader, because he's apologized for it and is laying out a plan for the future. with the greenwood initiative, he's talked about what he's going to do to ensure that those inequalities don't exist going forward in the future. that's the thing about mike, he's laying out plans and policies for how he's going to create an economy that works for everybody. expand health care for americans, ensure that we fight climate change and do something about gun violence in this country. he is the candidate with the message and the machine to win in november. >> i'm going to go back to stop and frisk in a moment, but i want to get your take on the comments that he's made about women in the past. i know you said it's been litigated in past elections, but that was new york city and now we're in a different era and this is a national election for the highest office in our land. as a woman, what do you think, a woman endorser, what do you
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think of things like this. if women wanted to be appreciated for their brains, they'd go to the library instead of bloomingdale's. the lawsuit said when bloomberg saw certain women, he said i'd blank, i'm not going to say it on television, that in a second. when bloomberg learned on april 11th, 1995, that garrison was pregnant, she is a woman that brought a lawsuit against him. according to her suit he allegedly said to her "kill it." do you think that's okay because it's in the past and because it's already been vetted? >> i know that his values are such that he supports equality for women. if you simply look at what he did when he was mayor, he ensured that more women had access to health care, he lowered maternal mortality rates. he was able to ensure that minority owned and women owned businesses got access to capital. and he in this last election was able to help the democrats regain the house. many of those candidates women. he supported emily's list, planned parenthood.
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he has made his investments where his values are and that is in support of women. >> why would you not support a woman in this campaign then? if you're looking for somebody who supported women, why not support amy klobuchar or elizabeth warren and both who are advocating palm seolicies t support warren. >> for me this election is about beating donald trump. i happen to align with the policies that mike bloomberg has laid out on the economy to health care to women's issues to the environment and gun safety. i appreciate the fact that he has been a mayor who was able to achieve real policy goals and he has a plan that he's laying out for the future of this country that i agree with. >> is it also saying, though, to people that just because he said offensive things in the past, be it about women or minorities on stop and frisk and had policies that were deeply divisive and destructive for communities,
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just because those things happened in the past and because he's done so much else and because i think he's the best person to beat donald trump, i'm just going to ignore it. i'm going to ignore that stuff, leave it in the background. i'm going to focus on the portion of the record that i like and the belief that i think he's going to be the best one to take donald trump out of office. is that what you're saying? >> what i'm saying to you is that nobody spends a lifetime in elected office or as the head of a major corporation or as a major public figure and doesn't have moments that they misspoke or things that they wish they hadn't said or would have done differently or that the current social perspective hasn't moved past something that happened decades ago. what i am saying is i'm judging the candidates by what they have done recently, what their message is and what their plan for the future of america is. and i think quite honestly there is a broad swath of americans
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who are very much interested in seeing a leader lead this country into a place where they feel like they are cared for and that there's equitable opportunities at the american dream and that america reclaims its place on the world stage as a leader. i think mike bloomberg is that kind of person. >> just to be clear, i should say michael bloomberg has denied saying "kill it" about miss garrison's fetus. >> i'm glad that you're clarifying that because i think there's a lot of misinformation out there. i think it's all a reflection of the fact that mike is gaining momentum. donald trump knows that as well as all of his democratic competitors. that's why they're putting this stuff out there. much of it which isn't true and i'm glad to see you as the press have some -- >> it was a lawsuit and i can say here's what the lawsuit said. of course we have intellectual honesty but thank you for that. it was in a lawsuit. he's denied it, she said it.
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so i can't tell you whether or not it happened. congressman stephanie murphy, we appreciate your time. thank you very much for coming on. >> great to be with you. ahead, taking a stand against attorney general bill barr. more than 2,000 former justice department officials now say they want him out and the list keeps on growing. break out the butter lobsterfest has something for every lobster fan like wild caught lobster, butter poached, creamy and roasted. or try lobster sautéed with crab, shrimp and more. so hurry in and let's lobsterfest. or get it to go at red lobster dot com if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, and let's lobsterfest. little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated... ...with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression...
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a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. othroughout the country for the past twelve years, mr. michael bloomberg is here. vo: leadership in action. mayor bloomberg and president obama worked together in the fight for gun safety laws, to improve education, and to develop innovative ways to help teens gain the skills needed to find good jobs. obama: at a time when washington is divided in old ideological battles he shows us what can be achieved when we bring people together to seek pragmatic solutions. bloomberg: i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message.
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doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. welcome back. this evening there are now more than 2,000 former justice
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department officials stretching as far as the eisenhower administration renouncing attorney general bill barr for interfering in the sentencing of trump ally, roger stone. as you can see, it is a massive and growing number of former officials who are alarmed by barr's conduct and we're barely through the as on the list on your screen. the letter calls for barr to resign, saying a person should not be given special treatment in a criminal prosecution because they are a close political ally of the president. governments that use the enormous power of law enforcement to punish their enemies and reward their allies are not constitutional republics, they are autocracies. it is a strong rebuke against the top law enforcement officer who just opened an investigation into mike flynn. barr is also working with rudy giuliani, who himself is under investigation by the doj. our msnbc legal analyst, danny
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cevalos and ben wittes join us now. gentlemen, thanks for being here. ben, i'll start with you. this letter has a lot of signatories. that list is growing. what is the expectation of what this letter will do? >> i think it will not do anything in a practical sense. if you mean forcing bill barr to resign. on the other hand, it does dramatically illustrate the degree of disaffection and anger and bewilderment at his conduct on the part of a very large number of former officials. one of the remarkable things about that list is the percentage of those people that are, you know, career officials of one sort or another rather than political types whom you might expect to be the sort to sign this kind of letter. and so i do think it illustrates in a very kind of vivid way how
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deviant barr's behavior is from the expectations that prosecutors have and justice department lawyers more generally have of the way attorneys general behave and the way the justice department institutionally should behave. >> normally this is not the way it does work? >> no, it is not. and i agree with ben, that this, whatever you want to call it, online petition has some very good points. i don't think it will move the needle at all. it won't result in anybody resigning. however, one of the best lines from that memo helps crystallize everything. political appointees like bill barr set policy. it's then up to the line prosecutors to carry out that policy. and with each new administration, the overall missions and objectives of the doj changes, but the line prosecutors carry that out. it is highly unusual, even though bill barr has the power, it could be said he doesn't necessarily have the right to interfere the way he did in this
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case and in such a spectacular fashion, katy, filing a sentencing memorandum the day after his line prosecutors filed one. it's never, ever, ever happened in any of my cases. >> normally is there a conversation behind the scenes about this sort of stuff, these high-profile cases? >> yes, in high-profile cases you can expect for line prosecutors to checkup the chain of command. in your run-of-the-mill white collar cases, line prosecutors take on almost every facet of the prosecution. even if this was a high-profile case and they were running things up the flag pole, the notion that the amount of work that line prosecutors put into preparing a sentencing memorandum and the fact that that guideline range is calculated by a whole other department and by putting in all that sweat, the next day filing a four-page memo that is written like a defense attorney like me saying not only do we think it's a little too harsh, here are all these other con textual
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features. he's older, he's not likely to offending. that is really, really unusual. >> so the letter read more like roger stone's defense attorney other than the department of justice? >> i saved it to my computer so i can use it as some of my own cases as a criminal defense attorney, and i'm not kidding. >> that's sad. ben, what does it say to you about a.g. barr's ability, his feeling that he could go out and do something like this, the doj could do something like this? normally you don't want to have a perception of a conflict of interest, you don't want a perception of things looking like they are political. normally that is a big no-no. why would he feel it's okay to do it now? >> look, in fairness to barr, he is wedged between two very -- he's wedged in a tight spot. on the one hand he has the whole expectations and traditions of the justice department and on the other hand he has this
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immovable object named donald trump, right? and donald trump expects him to protect him, he expects him to advantage his friends and punish his enemies, he expects him to intervene actively to be his guy, his roy cohn. he's not subtle about it. he talks about it all the time in public and he lays out what he expects. and so for barr to -- you know, he's got a conflict of interest in almost any way he behaves. typically the way you deal with that, there is no typically actually. the proper way to deal with that is to do the right thing and to let yourself be fired, if that's what it comes to. he has chosen a different route, which is to try to accommodate trump on a series of questions, some of which he may actually believe in. he may believe that this
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sentencing recommendation was inappropriate. >> if he did, why would that not be clear when the recommendation was made initially? why go after it after it's already on the record? why change it so publicly? >> well, his contention was that they were shocked to learn about it after it was filed. >> how could they be shocked to learn about it, it's their own department? >> look, i report, you decide. i don't think that explanation is credible, and i think the better understanding, at least that i can come to, is that, you know, he felt a lot of pressure to do what trump wanted. that might not have been a call from donald trump saying here's what i want you to do, but the ambient pressure was very substantial and i think that had an effect on him. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. next up, could this doj letter calling on barr to resign end up turning into a rallying cry for the trump base?
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welcome back, sonom, jonathan and john. they are still with us. all right, guys, the 2,000 now signatory letter to tell bill barr to resign. i read that and i'm reminded of all of the letters that were written against donald trump in 2016 and how they only served to embolden him and his supporters. is there any chance that he doesn't use this as, hey, it's the deep state working against me? >> no, that's exactly how he'll use it. >> there's so many career officials signed on to it. >> career officials, mostly democrats. it's not -- you can look at it and say this is unprecedented and it's horrifying and it's huge. it all depends -- the only real thing that matters with barr and trump is how angry was trump when barr said you're making it impossible to do my job. can barr survive at the justice department -- >> do you think he was really
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angry? >> so you guys -- so i hear this conspiracy theory around that he wasn't angry, this was all a plot. >> i think when he's angry he makes it very clear he's angry. >> no, he can stew. he stewed about john kelly, he stewed about mcmaster. we would hear about the stewing weeks later. >> we're not hearing about stewing. >> the interesting question is does barr have him over a barrel? that's the question. can he not surrender barr? and i would say it's an interesting question to see whether there is a slow building anger in his body for barr. >> i will bet you a fair amount of money that barr is still attorney general a year from now. >> i'm not betting. i said it's just an interesting -- but i mean i think that's more threatening to barr than the letter. >> sonom? >> it's not what barr says in these interviews but it's his actions. ever since he took over as
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attorney general, he has done a number of things that directly catered to the president where barr is acting more like the president's defense lawyer than as the attorney general. so it doesn't matter if he's telling interviewers these tweets bother me and it makes it impossible for me to do my job because at the end of the day he's still catering to the president's wishes. if we look at this letter from 2,000 career prosecutors directly criticizing attorney general barr for stepping in in the roger stone sentencing, that's just the latest thing that he's done. i think one day before "the washington post" reported that barr had created an intake process to vet guiliani's claims about joe biden. for the attorney general to set up a direct channel with the president's personal lawyer to essentially get information on the president's political rival from a foreign country, not to mention the fact that guiliani is currently under investigation for those very actions by the southern district of new york i think tells us everything we need to know about whether or not barr is really in the
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president's corner or not. >> let me get back to bloomberg for a second because he is the new thing, i guess, at our table. the tactics that they're using in this campaign beyond just being everywhere, they're trying to get under donald trump's skin. we were talking about it a second ago off camera. hiring a narcissism expert to work with comedy writers to try and figure out a way every morning to see what donald trump will get most angered about. >> and they're going right back at him on twitter. bloomberg called trump a clown last week. >> everybody is laughing at him behind his back. >> which he knows plays right into trump's deep insecurities. so bloomberg does know how to push trump's buttons. and that could be very appealing to democrats. even if bloomberg is not a very good candidate, doesn't have a very good voice, isn't inspiring, isn't that appealing as a retail politician, if
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democrats conclude this guy has trump's number, that could be very powerful. >> isn't that just like a sugar high, though, if you think about it? so he tweets, he says, oh, you're an idiot and trump goes, no, you're an idiot. then how does that get you to 68 million votes and winning wisconsin -- >> it causes unforced errors on trump's part. if he's thrown off balance by a candidate who is a lot richer than he is, makes him feel insecure, makes him feel small, that's why he calls bloomberg small, then that makes it harder for -- >> what bloomberg does is beyond stop and frisk, what he does have is a record in new york city for an economic boom and for turning in some ways turning aspects of this city around. so you can look back at bloomberg and say, yeah, it might be a sugar high, tit for tat, oh, god, roll your eyes, but he does have a lot to show behind him. >> he has a record to run on.
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>> he has a record to run on. >> it's an old record. it sort of predates the change in american politics with trump. >> it's not about his record. look, he's got a lot of problems, bloomberg does, but he has an argument against trump on the economy, which is trump's best argument, which is, you know, you say you're the best person to manage this economy? i say i would do it better. he has the stature and the standing to make that argument. the other democrats except maybe steyer don't to the same degree. >> guys, thank you so much. it is presidents' day, time to pause for some perspective on what it really means or at least what it should mean to be the leader of the free world. ic®! ♪ (announcer) once-weekly ozempic® is helping many people with type 2 diabetes like james lower their blood sugar. a majority of adults who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. here's your a1c. oh! my a1c is under 7! (announcer) and you may lose weight. adults who took ozempic® lost on average up to 12 pounds.
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donald trump may well of now become the most powerful president in american history. president trump is functionally a monarch at this point. if the king does it, it's okay. that's what we're seeing unfold in washington right now, and i think all americans, whether you support the president or you don't, should pause significantly and think about the long-term implications of having a president who is above the law. >> welcome back and happy presidents' day. that was presidential historian john meacham when it became clear that president trump would be acquitted in a senate trial that wouldn't even feature witness testimony. since that moment, president trump has demonstrated an eagerness to use his newfound presidential power with an assist from his attorney
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general. the president has targeted impeachment witnesses while pressuring the justice department to intervene in investigations. for more on what this unprecedented presidential power means for the republic on this presidents' day, i'm joined now by -- i'm joined from nashville by presidential historian and msnbc contributor john meacham. john, it is always good to see you, especially on a day like this. we just played a quote from you last month when the president was acquitted. do you still believe that to be the case? >> absolutely. he's functioning as a monarch. he has decided that whatever he wants to do is not only proper but legal. he said as much. he discovered the second article of the constitution not too long ago. he said article 2 can let me do whatever i want. apparently not understanding that article 2 implies there was
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an article 1, which might contradict that. i think it's a political power that -- and a political authority that almost all of his predecessors, i dare say all of them, would havepredecessors, i dare say all of them would envied at some level where he apparently can do no wrong for those who support him already. he still hasn't built that base, which is interesting, and makes the upcoming presidential election all the more fascinating. but there is a political power here that is an extraordinary an apogee of presidential power. >> has there ever been a president with this up unchecked purchase before? >> not in terms of exercising it. andrew johnson tried to act in a dictatorial fashion. he was checked and balanced by his impeachment. but even that was more of a policy. it was an opposition to what the
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congress was doing. it wasn't reaching out to britain or france trying to support reconstruction policy or stop a reconstruction policy. president nixon interestingly has become a kind of model of someone who broke the rule of law, but then ultimately obeyed it and the constitutional norms, the rule of constitutional practice. one of the big things and president's day is a good day to think about it, this is an incredibly fragile experiment that we have in the united states. it depends in an enormous degree on the character of the people in positions of constitutional power. the presidency itself was designed with a lot of amorphous power and authority partly because the men who were sitting in philadelphia in that room in the summer of 1787 were looking at their first president, and they trusted george washington to do the right thing because he
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had already done it. when he resigned his commission of the continental army, georgi ii said if george washington refuses the crown of america, he will be the greatest man in the world. and he did that. so they knew they could trust him. the question we'll all have a to decide now is can we trust this man? >> let me ask you this. you mentioned nixon. there is discussion out there about whether nixon would have resigned had he force like fox news behind him. how does a representative democracy in this modern era with a president who believes in the supremacy offal article ii over article i, a senate who agrees with him and a attorney general who seems to let him do what he wants and also a public mega phone in the form of a network that believes he can do no wrong. >> it's an impassioned and lockstep minority of the country. it is a minority, barely. call it 47, call it 48%, but
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it's not above 50. it's unprecedented. i think the nixon question about fox news is fascinating, because all of subsequent political history is different. if august 1974 comes and goes and nixon finishes his term, ford is not president. carter is probably not president. reagan, who challenged ford, just everything unfolds. the bushes, it all it's like the wing of a butterfly. i think it's an entirely reasonable hypothetical to suggest that if nixon had had a well armed, well funded, well listened to propaganda arm that he could well have survived because you would have had people saying in 1973 and 1974 that it was a witch hunt. why aren't we investigating lawrence o'brien? there is some president's day dorkness for you because o'brien
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was the dnc chairman whose office was being bugged at the watergate. so you can see how in that era they would have flipped reality in the way so many of them are flipped reality. now. >> jon, let me ask you this. phil rutger wrote this in "the washington post." as his reelection campaign intensifies, trump is using the power of his office to manipulate the facts and settle scores. advisers say the president is determined to protect his associates ensnared in the expansive russia investigation, punish the prosecutors and investigators he believes betrayed him and convince the public that the probe was exactly as he sees it, an illegal witch hunt. what have we done in the past? has there been an incidence in the past where we had a president whose actions seemed to creep toward
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authoritarianism? >> we have basically three players in this republican lower r contract. or four. we have the president, the press, the people, and the legislature, and the courts. so you have five. so there are five forces here. you get two or three off beam, and you're in trouble. right now, they're off beam. right now it's the courts and the people who are really going to have to do this. and i think by the late 1930s when president roosevelt, who won every state except maine and vermont in 1963. a massive mandate. he decides he doesn't like the supreme court, that sounds familiar, so he is going to pack it. he is going to add justices who are over the age of 70. he is add a justice for every one and tip the court into more pro new deal way. people just decided no, that that was not it. and he was caught for overreaching.
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that's the test. will enough people find the means to express disapproval and belief that madison was right, that there have to be checks and balances no matter who the president is. let's say you think the president is doing great on the economy. you hate regulation. you don't want a democrat putting supreme court justice on. all of that is totally fine. the question is do you want a president who obeys the constitution that's endured for two and a half centuries or do you want one who is ripping it up? >> jon meacham, teddy got your gift. he already started gnawing on the cover of volume 1. he hopes to read six volumes by the time he goes college. jon meacham, thank you very much. >> that's the gathering storm. >> we'll be right back. ♪ do you recall, not long ago ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows
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more meet the press daily live from las vegas. the beat with ayman mohyeldin right now in for ari. they told me it was you, and it just rolls off my tongue, "the beat" with ari melber. i'm sorry. my bad. >> it's a monday night tradition. i'm actually the look-alike. they bring me out whenever they want somebody who look likes ari. >> i don't know. i think you got a lot on ari. >> hope he's not watching. thanks, katy tur, my friend. always good to speak to you. ayman mohyeldin in for ari melber tonight. a stunning rebuke to trump's attorney general from 2,000 da veterans. also, new questions for michael bloomberg ahead of the next primary battle, and new signs of activity in the criminal probe into rudy giuliani. but we begin this hour with that backlash against attorney general bill barr after he intervened in the case against trump associate roger stone. more than 2,000 forme

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