many former opponents happily joining or supporting his campaign. isn't that called a payoff? he is illegally buying the democratic nomination. supporters of michael bloomberg will say that is an indication that the president is afraid of michael bloomberg. whatever you interpret it as, what we know is it is going to be a fascinating debate tomorrow. that does it for me. i'm chris jansing. "deadline: white house" is up next. it is 4:00 on the east coast. 1:00 here in las vegas. and if you already jumped up from your seats to adjust your tv, sit back down this is unfortunately today how my voice sounds. it could be a winter cold or likely the result of a craps at the table last night. chris matthews will rescue me later in the hour and taking

over from washington with all of the news from the white house. but we have to begin here in vegas where less than 30 hours the next nbc news democratic debate has the potential to reshape the entire presidential race. michael bloomberg qualifying today, the remarkable 15-point surge in the new poll that puts bloomberg in a strong second place nationally at 19% just behind bernie sanders. that means that tomorrow in a big way mike bloomberg's candidacy gets right. for those that only know him from his hundreds of millions of dollars of ads or memes, tomorrow the chance for the first voters to see for themselves if bloomberg is more than just his money and if, as he claims, he's the best and only candidate equipped to take on donald trump. at this hour, bloomberg appears to be laser focused instead on the one democratic rival standing in his way, in terms of

the democratic nomination or that is the picture that the bloomberg campaign wants you to see. mike bloomberg ad attacking the bernie bros attacking sanders most rabid supporters and dominating the political conversation for 24 hours and inviting a field and launching bernie into unchartered waters as far as this case is concerned whereas the clear front-runner and the field is turning on him. and sanders is having to face the most intense scrutiny he's seen to day. those on the bernie brothers -- i mean bernie bros. >> i've said before we're all responsible for what our supporters do. and i think bernie has a lot of questions to answer here. >> i mean, this is way, way -- this is trump-like. way over the line. and i think bernie has to be -- he has to disavow this.

>> if you're not with me, you must be against me. if you're not for the revolution, you must be for the status quo and i don't think most of us see ourselves in that picture. >> i was on the debate stage when asked should we have a socialist leading the ticket and i was the only one that raised my hand. even though i get along with bernie. >> so that is likely just a taste of what we can expect on tomorrow night's debate stage with ammo sure to be reserved for mike bloomberg and pivotal primaries in nevada, south carolina and not to mention super tuesday is still very much up for grabs. joining us now here on the this stage in las vegas the editor of the nevada independent my friend john rossen and former white house communication director jennifer palmieri and chief national correspondent mark liebovich. here we are. >> it is exciting. where is mr. vegas. >> i know. >> the reason i never say the

word nevada any more. jon ralston will punish you if you make that error. there is a bunch of stories happening all at once. a horse race for the democratic nomination and michael bloomberg not on the ballot here or in south carolina but the biggest story in national politics right now. and then the question of the caucus itself and whether or not it could be executed away that is not the giant cluster that iowa was. which topics would you like to address? >> how much time do you have? >> as long as you want to go. >> it is interesting. the contrast couldn't be starker between bernie and bloomberg which is what makes the debate so interesting, they are the bookends. you have the multi-billionaire and then the guy that said billionaires shouldn't exist and the ones in the middle want to be the nonbernie candidate and then the back drop and after what happened in iowa, caucuses are nuts to start with, right.

and you have early voting for the first time going on for four days and today is the last day and whether they could carry it off in a way that is better than iowa. low bar, i have to say. the turnout so far has been very robust. and it will end up for the first three days close to 40,000 or so. that is half of what the entire turnout was for the caucus four years ago. so there is enthusiasm out there, more than half. but the people have turned out are new caucus-goers and didn't turn out in '08 or '16. >> and given what an embarrassment iowa was and whether you could pull this off and it was ugly affairs. we'll get back to that. jennifer, i want to start with you, to think what tomorrow night is now. you see turning points in campaigns that advertise and see them coming a mile away. michael bloomberg has been omni present and yet nowhere. he's been an idea. a hypothesis and image on

television but not part of the race in any active way. tomorrow night he becomes part of the race and it seems that one way or the other it is going to have a dramatic huge impact on what this case looks like from now until june. >> he's a om nip tent ghost and even iowa and new hampshire felt like a scrimmage and now tomorrow night feels like the whole primary is being engaged. all of the people on stage and major players. and everybody is going to be -- it is interesting now because you have like warren as an example, she's number three in delegate race and should be considered one of the top three because she is literally. but has gotten lost in the shuffle of all of the coverage. and tomorrow night she'll be pushing against bernie and bloomberg. bernie for the bernie bros and bloomberg and corruption is her big thing trying to make that the centerpiece of her argument and bloomberg trying to buy the election. but he is -- for the first time ever they'll have the chance to

go at him. and they like to lower the bar, say he's not going to perform very well and his staff, but in debates he does fairly well and i bet he'll -- i bet he'll perform and come out of here looking relatively strong. >> are you surprised that the fundamental reality of this race was for a year joe biden was the national front-runner and was weaker in the early states but always the national front-runner from the time he got in until the night of the iowa caucus and now he's not just the front-runner and bernie sanders is, but michael bloomberg just raced right past him and now in the national polling you have a two-person race. that is not the only thing that matters. but biden has collapsed in national polling and i think it is a big a story as bloomberg's rise has been biden's poll. >> one week ago today, tuesday night in new hampshire, there were three big stories coming out. klobuchar and buttigieg. massive winners. they both exceeded expectations and, boy, joe biden is in big

trouble. and all three of those have been sub assumed in the a matter of days by the bernie and bloomberg story. the big story tomorrow night for the people i just mentioned is that michael bloomberg coming out in public is the big story tomorrow night. we have seen the peril over the last year of how dangerous it is for people who are these looming figures to actually step out in public. whether it is beto o'rourke or joe biden before he got in. or even in washington bob mueller, he was going to transform this whole first term and then he stepped out in public and all of a sudden, it it is like it is a diminished figure. so he'll become human tomorrow night and that is a big deal. >> when i say he's doing to change the race. i don't mean that it is good or bad for bloomberg, i think one way or another he could be the wizard of oz and he steps out and people go that is the guy, really? or be solid. and if he's solid and people look at him and think, good, solid, he clears that bar, that in combination with the only thing that matters to people right now which is the money,

the notion that if that guy is the nominee, he'll bring his essentially unlimited resources in a fight with donald trump and a solid debate performance plus that back drop, i think that guy suddenly becomes certainly the moderate front-runner alongside sanders in a two-way race that goes on for months. >> if i told you ten years arg ago we'll be having this conversation about bloomberg you would have laughed at me. but what is interesting is what underpins all of this is that democrats want so badly to beat donald trump and a certain number of democrats don't think bernie sanders could defeat donald trump and if the rest of them fade and bloomberg could do that well on super tuesday, however he does, democrats will say, well maybe i don't like some of the stuff he did when he was a republican and i have some questions but we have to get trump out of the white house and this might be our best bet. that question of electability is very high in polls, maybe higher than it has been a long time.

so i think that is what gives bloomberg a chance. al know nobody has ever done what he's trying to do. as mark points out, the man and the myth and legend, we'll see the real guy out on the stage tomorrow night. >> but he skipped the four states where the kind of personality you have matters. he skipped all of the retail stops. and whether or not he does well, democrats -- either your for sanders or you want to beat trump. there are people who want to do both but that is how it breaks out. so people want to beat trump and if he has money and a solid performance, people are falling in line. he is what people thought joe biden was. that is what they're believing now. >> so you have one side this bloomberg rise that is incredible and again he'll either be persistent and a huge factor or the air will come out of the balloon. the thing the air will not come out of the balloon from any time fast is bernie sanders. let's look at this poll again. the poll that got bloomberg in,

the maris pbs poll. and he's up nine. michael bloomberg um to 19. and biden and warren down five and buttigieg is down five, down five to 8% in the national poll. and there is tom steyer with 2%. what is the big story? one big story that we talked about bloomberg. another big story that we passed by was joe biden on the way down. but the other story is bernie sanders. who wins the popular vote in iowa, maintaining to the day i die that doesn't matter, but what matters is the delegates and still wins the popular vote in iowa and wins in new hampshire the popular vote and many people will get to john and think he is the front-runners here in nevada and making end roads with others and looking at the money he raised and the fact that he's done this before and the hard core support and he's

not just the front-runner that you could argue that he is the prohibitive front-runner if you look down the road to the march states. >> going after 30, above 30 is a big deal. it is a big deal. and one thing that they've done in the state that is -- organizing young hispanic voters and had a lot of success at that. we'll see how it pans out on saturday. but if he has a big win here, that proves -- part of his problem has been electability and win be gets wins and in a way that doesn't happen for others. i bet on super tuesday will voters turn out for bernie sanders? i bet they are. on super tuesday, will they turn out for bloomberg, that is a big unknown at this point. but he's the front-runner in a big way. going over 30 is a very big deal. >> it is also the case that he's getting hit for the first time. and one of the ways in which bloomberg is important in the race is when they did this attack, the digital ad on twitter. the bernie bros opened up a line of attack not about electability

or socialist. >> it is about conduct. >> and elizabeth warren and joe biden and everybody is piling on to that particular line of attack. i asked you whether that is a way in which sanders is vulnerable in a way he wasn't to calling him a socialist and he's like, yeah, i am. >> he's vulnerable but he didn't have a good answer with it. four years ago you're like donald trump, you have to account for these terrible people who are supporting you and look at what this one said and this person did and he would say, look, i have a lot of loyal support and it is very durable and proved durable in donald trump's case and it is proving so in bernie sanders' case. and there is only so much you can do. and frankly it is not a process critique but it is not the kind of thing people vote on. obviously you want your supporters to behave and not cause trouble. you sort of wonder, if donald trump -- it kept donald trump's name in the news four years ago, i don't think bernie sanders

welcomes this kind of news but at the same time you wonder how consequential it is. >> and i want to throw up this one tweet, kevin sheikhy and he put this up today which says the opposition research on bernie sanders could fill real donald trump's empty fox confacility in wisconsin. it is very damaging and perhaps disqualifying. when you have $60 billion in the bank and spent $350 million on advertising if you go negative and put money on administration you could do a lot of damage. michael bloomberg attacking bernie sanders, good for bernie sanders to some extent but when the money -- if they start to go negative, you don't want to be in the way. first of all, it might be a slighter smaller place than fox conthat could hold the opposition research on bloomberg. but look at how we're talking about bernie sanders. any other person in the democratic primary who had won the first two states, or however you count it, and it looks very

vong in thef and we could be saying he's the front-runner and probably the nominee. but because of the bernie bros and he's a socialist and because there are so many other things that people worry about. and listen, the bernie bros stuff is terrible here. anybody in the media who writes about bernie sanders has experienced it. but these are crazy people online. they're not the bulk of bernie sanders' supporters in my opinion. he has -- i think mark used the word fervent. of all of the candidates there is a core supporting bernie sanders that will never go anywhere else and that is why he's going to do well. and the fear that is out there and you know more about this than anybody in the democratic party that he could -- he could become nominee and move 40 states or whatever the horror stories that are being told. i'm not saying i buy that but that is the prevailing feeling out there, i want to stick with you. >> we all arrived in the last couple of days and all of us

covered nevada caucus in the past. it is wild and there is skeevy things here and they make iowa look tame and lawlessness and -- >> the vegas version of iowa. >> the notion of caucus sites and like casinos and it is kind of crazy. but we've heard a lot about in the wake of iowa the possibility this one could be worse and go off the rails. new processes and questionable technology and what is your sense about the possibility that we could be heading for another chaotic cluster on saturday. >> three c's, i like that. i have to tell you, i don't know what worse than iowa looks like. it seems impossible they couldn't get over that low bar. i'll say what i keep saying, the people running the state democratic party here and many of you know them are some of the most talented operatives in the country and they know what they're doing but it is a caucusment it is run by hundreds or thousands of volunteers.

they've added this new process of early voting. they were going to use the same app as iowa and discarded that and had to erect this apparatus overnight and now today announcing how they will calculate the results with a tool, don't call it an app, and so obviously murphy's law could take hold. things are going to go wrong. the question is how badly wrong they will go. so i keep saying -- >> you're doing nothing to reassure me. >> i said they are good at what they do but it is tough to control even if you're at the best at what you do. >> i'll take that for what it is worth. when we come back, we're just hours away from the must-see debate moderated by sh of my colleagues including this man here, nevada's own jon ralston and chris matthews on the shape of the field and what we can look forward to. plus news out of washington, friends of the president getting a break including clemency for

former rod blagoyavich and what happens next with those still facing sentencing. all of these stories are coming up. (acapella) ahhhhhhhhhhh! (vo) dayquil severe with vicks vapocool. the daytime coughing, stuffy head, vaporize your cold, medicine.

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there it is. there it is. the first look at the debate fight tomorrow night here in las vegas. nbc news and msnbc hosting this big debate tomorrow night. it was going to be a big debate under any circumstances in the middle of the race coming a few days before the nevada caucus after iowa and new hampshire and a big deal but now with michael bloomberg joining the stage this becomes a big deal. we'll see them up on the stage

tomorrow night for the first time, the guy, bloomberg who has suddenly become a huge factor in the race, no one here who was excited about this could imagine anything more exciting. maybe there is one more exciting possibility and that is bringing chris matthews into the show right now. you get excited about seeing mike bloomberg come on and you get more exciting about having chris with us today. chris, good to see you, my friend. and i ask you this question, like i said in the first block, you don't have turning points in a race sort of sign posted in advance where you could see them coming. they happen in a more spontaneous way but this one feels, because of the bloomberg factor, it feels like a big moment that we could predict, good or bad, which way it will go, we don't know. does it feel like that to you? >> yeah. and i hope the candidates who have been telegraphing punches against sanders are going to deliver them. i hope they actually do what they promised to do. are they going after him about the bad behavior of bernie

sanders' supporters or not. is this how they do things in denmark. this is the preview of coming attractions. he said he can't control them but i think he'll be called to account by the other candidates because they have a hesitancy or a fear of going after his ideology, going after his self-declared socialist or about the do ability of all the things he's going to do and in a congress that everybody knows half of the u.s. senate is run by republicans and run by half republicans next time and it takes 60 votes to get this through and nobody says the obvious, bernie, your full of it. none of this will get passed because you won't get medicare or all or free college tuition for public universities and payoff of student loans. none of this is going to happen. and you're going to sit there and stew in it. so why don't they bring that up. i do not understand why they don't bring that up. >> chris, do you think on some

level for the candidates that they're just thinking about what is going to have to happen down the road if they become the nominee and not bernie sanders, the other candidates prevails, that they'll have to put the party back together to take on donald trump and that they're concerned especially having watched the behavior of bernie supporters, the behavior they see as cult-like that joe biden yesterday said was like trump supporters only from the left rather than the right. they're worried about alienating those people that they need to beat trump down the line. >> well that is the way -- >> -- with kid gloves. >> they have to look sat the way harry truman did in '48. he had the breakaway from henry wallace and said go your way and he this therman on the right and he still beat dewey. in the end you have to go where you believe. the sent rift or moderate democrats and believing in accident regulation, the kind of

government that we've had for the modern 21st century, do they believe in that tradition of kennedy and roosevelt and obama or don't they. if they want to depart and go hard left, they don't want to do that. they're just pandering to the bernie people. and you know what pandering gets you? nothing. it certainly doesn't get respect. and they have to say i believe in socialism and the markets and i think this country will never go that direction and by the way we'll lose 49 states and i was there in 1972 at the democratic convention when the people on the left were dancing in glee. i saw them literally -- they were dancing in a circle. they were so happy that they defeated the moderates like tip o'neill and dick daily and the other 49 states in their glee. so that could happen again. so clearly. that is what i see. it could happen again. >> so chris, with we have one person here on this set who dealt with this matter in 2016.

jennifer palmieri, you were with the candidate named hillary clinton who beat bernie sanders, beat him fair and square and the dnc that people think is hincky now in retrospect but she beat him with a broader coalition of voters and appealed to black and hispanic voters that he did not have in 2016 and they you put that back together in philadelphia and did you not fully succeed. so i ask you, chris makes a valid point, as you look at these other candidates who are going to be confronted if they win with. with the same challenge you faced in 2016, what did you learn in '16 about what works and what doesn't work and in terms of trying to bring sanders people into the bigger tent and fold of the democratic party. >> so we scared away from making the kind of argument chris just made because we're trying to keep a big tent but we were in a two-person race and hillary won and got 4 million more votes. and i think chris is right, you

have to have a harder edge against sanders and make the argument about what he's not going to be able to do. and there are people who are never going to come our way. they just never wr were. and to build your campaign assuming you could win over the hardest sanders supporters is a folly. you have to get voters somewhere else and that is really hard but there are some people that are never going to leave him. >> all right. jennifer palmieri thank you and jon ralston and mark liebovich, thank you for spending time with me and chris matthews will carry us through for the rest of the hour. that is a message right there that palmieri just laid out there. when they agree on something you start to wonder whether it might be true. >> i think we're both sober minded people of experience. thank you so much. thank you. john heilemann, thank you. president sending a clear signal to roger stone. a little love note to him after granting clemency to an ex

governor and three white-collar criminals and is he telling stone to hang tight? could he be next to get the pardon? we'll talk about that in a moment. we'll be right back. for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; don't start xeljanz if you have an infection. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, and changes in lab results. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common, or if you've had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. needles. fine for some. but for you, one pill a day

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we have commuted the sentence of rod blagoyavich. he served eight years in jail. that is a long time. and i watched his wife on television. i don't know him very well.

i've met him a couple of times. he was on for a short while "the apprentice" years ago. it was a prosecution by the same people, comey, fitzpatrick and the same group. very far from his children. they're growing older, they're going to high school now and they rarely get to see their father outside of an orange uniform. i saw that and i did commute his sentence. >> commuting rod blagoyavich 14-year prison sentence and he served eight years and in 2009 a former governor was impeached and removed from office and sent to prison for trying to sell, i mean sell, barack obama's vacated senate seat when he became president. trump's decision to help a former celebrity apprentice contestant is prompting a question, is he trying to send a message to another associate still wrapped up in the legal system. "the new york times" reported, in conversations with advisers mr. trump raised the prospect of

commuting the sentence of, bingo, roger stone, his longer servi serving adviser convicted of seven felony chajs charges and he'll be sentenced on thursday two days hence as planned. and let's go to peter baker and harry litman and in the studio is carol lee, and our politics reporter from "the daily beast" betsy flots. and there is so many possible motives. so is this to send a signal to roger stone, sit tight, i'll get to you, baby? >> well, whether it is intended to or not, it could be intere-- interpreted that way. he thinks what happened to roger stone is unfair and unjust and also michael flynn his former national security adviser who

faces sentencing and i think you could interpret this as it may be interpreted on the receiving end as this is somebody who takes care of his friends. president said somebody has to speak up for these people and he made clear that is going to be him even if the attorney general doesn't want him to. >> i wonder how much of this -- my first instinct watching it is political. i think there is a lot of people from eastern europe and ethnic people and white working people around the chicago area and the suburbs, is it sending a signal with regard to this guy. we've had so many governors of illinois that have gone to prison. it is ridiculous. they made a series about it, the good wife. is this part of a constituency that we call rod and is there a constituency out there that like this. >> and i think that is possible and i think personally he is sympathetic to or empathizing

people like rod blagoyavich who feels was persecuted by prosecutors. he was prosecuted by patrick fitzgerald a friend of james comey and he mentioned that today in speaking outside of air force one, this is a comey prosecution in his view so he's now voided this prosecution and he also pardoned scooter libby who was vice president cheney's chief of staff and prosecuted by pat fitzgerald so there is no question that there is this connection in his view between these cases and the cases of him and his friends who he feels have been treated unfairly by the old fbi and justice department. >> harry, what do you make of this -- knocking it down to eight years. is that reasonable? >> no. look. not really. think we've replaced -- this is a piece with the stone chains from last week itself. there are procedures in place for who gets a pardon and when you get a pardon. have you shown remorse and has it been five years since your conviction was served and there is a whole apparatus and

professional people on the ground, trump completely ignores that and i think the criteria for, you know, for bloggy and debartolo, they're trump's kind of guys. that is about it. is eight years reasonable? he got more under the guidelines just as stone should. it is completely ignoring the system that is in place to try to keep things equal and procedurally consistent among defendants. >> carol, how much of this is just to show -- because i could do anything and i could make rush limbaugh a citizen forever. and a national -- what do they call it -- at medal of freedom and just give it to anybody i like that day. >> there is definitely an element of that and an element of that in a lot of things that president trump does with presidential pardon power is so definitive and it is the one base in which he could be really be king and it is up to him and

he gets to decide. we've seen him do this with military cases and with the regular justice system cases. one of the things that is interesting -- >> and working in those situations which is scary jumping into that stuff. >> and the president has been teasing the rod blagoyavich one and back in august when he talked about this, it was just a phone call. you could see how the president relates to -- as others were saying, he can relate to what or some of what he feels like he's been through in some of the individuals. and so he was saying, it is just a phone call. people have worse phone calls and obviously the president -- >> how smart is trump. is he smart enough to know this looks like compassion. you talk about rod blagoyavich wife and the children in an orange jump suit and he talked about the way he knows the guy and like him and he's gone through hell and eight years is enough. >> and he's likely seen patty on

fox news on the network more than half a dozen times and that family has been trying -- look it is not a coincidence when people make arguments on fox trump ends up believing those arguments. what we could surmise about the whole situation is that trump is thinking about all of the pardons in the same way he thinks about everything. which is will my base like it and the trump base is going to be totally fine with him pardoning rod blagoyavich because trump is enthusiastic about it. and same thing with bernie kerik and then -- >> let me ask that legal question there. harry, this is close to trump. if he lets off bernie kerik he's going close to his political wheelhouse. >> that is right. to me, first i totally agree with betsy. first and foremost how does this play with the base. it is the lodestar for everything that he's doing.

and just the feel of these guys when you bring them together, kerik, debartolo and blago, they feel like the kind of guys that trump's base would champion. but again i want to point out, none of them -- no one has gone through any of the analysis of who gets a pardon and why. he's got the raw power. but it is always in the past been exercised according to procedures through professional people and that is thrown out with the stone sentencing. >> and in the last days of december this year, if he wins or losing, say if he loses, could he go through some of the congressman and hire the relatives and fire the staff and just say screw you, i'm going to enjoy the job and the last three months i'll go to my cousins in the house. i've seen this happen. >> very quickly the answer is yes. >> thank you so much. coming up, we'll stick together here. the case against roger stone is just put the justice department

in turmoil and the latest tweets aren't helpful. we're in full crisis mode now and we'll talk about that next.

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like swelling of the face, lips, throat or tongue, or trouble breathing. if experienced, stop taking and tell your doctor right away. myrbetriq may interact with other medicines. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold or flu symptoms, sinus irritation, dry mouth, urinary tract infection, bladder inflammation, back or joint pain, constipation, dizziness, and headache. looking for a destination that isn't always the bathroom? ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you. and visit myrbetriq.com. yeah, i do make his job harder. i do agree with that. i think that is true. he's a very straight shooter. we have a great attorney general and he's working very hard. i will say this, social media for me has been very important. because it gives me a voice. because i don't get that voice

in the press in the media. i don't get that voice. so i'm allowed to have a voice. >> well trump agreeing with his attorney general there, bill barr's job is harder when his boss weighs in on twitter. they all agree on this one. he's being trouble. and earlier today with trump tweeting at the judge who will sentence roger stone on thursday. and also at the prosecution resigning from stone's case in protest over the lightening of the sentencing guidelines and the mueller investigation when he called badly tainted, trump is attacking everybody and threatened he may sue these people. anyway, everyone is all over the place. peter, it is almost like i could fight anybody in the crowd for a dollar. i mean, it is like grouch ow marks. i will punch or fight with anybody. it is like he is taunting bill barr. you don't like me, get used to it. >> i think he's saying i'm the chief law enforcement officer of the country and i can do what i could think and in fact i could intervene in thooese cases but

haven't chosen to. but that he's making a distinction between calling up bill barr versus saying on cameras and twitter, the message is still the same, he wants the justice department to lighten up on some of the his friends andal dwr -- and allies convicted and go after the people he thinks are enemies and not prosecuted the way he thinks they ought to and he is clear about that. it is remarkable how transparent he could be about other politicians might think or feel or try to do but have the -- have to try to disguise. he is very out there and that is one thing that bill barr is most concerned about. bill barr agrees with him on the issues and some of the people have been treated unfairly and the investigations under his predecessors were not always legitimate but he thinks the president making it more difficult for him to do it by speaking out the way he did today. >> harry, this president seems to believe he could governor by id, anything he feels like doing, he could do.

and whenever lawyers went to school, how many agree with his perspective that a president is head of the executive branch therefore entitled to do anything he wants and the chief law enforcement official and cannot break the law. how many people believe that? lawyers. >> six. maybe six or seven. but, look, on the one hand he wants to say i can always talk. that is right. but the real breach in the stone case was when the doj appeared to actually be embracing his view. but this id point and there is this week psychology and the common feature of this and the pardons, he's still fighting the mueller war. he just can't let that go. and he wanted one of the reasons that he pardoned bloggo as he said as peter pointed out is because comey was involved, he thinks even though he's wrong

and here he wants to sue everybody. but it is again this incredible obsession with what is now a sort of 3-year-old grievance that kind of could have been a lot worse for him anyway. so i think it is not just id but the darkest kind of grievance and persecution complex of his id. it is a piece of work but it is the leader of the free world piece of work. >> and i've been studying nancy pelosi the speaker and she understands the game. he's trying to expunge the record and she's there in a sacramental way, you are impeached for life. on your gravestone it will say you were impeached. he knows exactly how to play the game against them. >> if you look at what the president said today it is a clear message to barr that i'm boss and i'm going to keep doing what i'm going to do and you're going to have to deal with it. that is the subtext of all that.

and the question i have is what bar will do and he laid down a marker and said it is impossible, not tough, but impossible to do my job if the president continues to do what he's continuing to do. so what does he do next? >> how does he avoid the simon says problem. because the president said i want this done and then he does it looks like there is a -- a causation. everybody will see causation. >> that perceived causal link, even if it is not real is a huge concern behind closed doors to federal judges. recently there was a transcript released of a closed-door hearing where a judge lambasted those involved in the investigation of andy mccabe and the judge said the fact that it looks like the guy at the top is telling you what to do, even if he isn't actually, makes it appear like we're living in a banana republic in quotes. that is what the judge is saying it looks like. >> it is a mixed bag at best for his reputation. harry, how does he avoid looking

like the puppet? >> yeah, i mean, he's got -- that is a reason he went on tv and i actually think trump could have been a lot more antagonistic. he's not going to make trump shut up. so at the end of the day, i think he soldiers on but in the big cases, that's going to -- that whiff is going to be out there with with flynn with stone, whatever happens and he'll just keep his head down and try to forget about it. >> well i've been in this city a long time and reputation is everything among attorneys as well. i think he'll try to clean up his record to be able to walk around the metropolitan club and elsewhere and feel proud. anyway, just a thought. just projecting here. i wouldn't want to be nobody as bill barr. thank you very much for joining us today. up next, michael bloomberg getting under the president's skin just as he makes the debate stage tonight. we'll be right back. butter poached, creamy and roasted.

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and now, introducing new boost women... with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you. it's a story president trump can't seem to let go. his billionaire rivals surging in the democratic primaries right now. here's trump just minutes ago on mike bloomberg. he's illegally buying the democrats the way republicans refer to democrats. they're taking it away from bernie again. mini-mike, major party nomination are not for sale. good luck in the debate tomorrow

night. no standing on boxes. of course, there's no boxes, everyone is back right now. i don't know where to go. peter, let he start with you. we're back to the street corner. it's street corner trash talk. what is he up to? why does he want to put the focus -- i guess he wants to stir trouble with the democrats? >> yeah, i any it's not more complicated than that. you have mike bloomberg who has found a way to get under president trump's skin clearly. from the same mill yew. he knows the same people trump knows, and they laugh about him behind his back. i think you're right, the whole notion that the democrats are stealing the nomination from bernie sanders. >> who are the richest people in new york. >> where do these -- >> this unity. >> explain to me the pecking order in new york. where is trump's stance with

steve schwarzma? or mike bloomberg. are they at the same level. is schwarzman way head. who are the rich guys in new york, i'd love to know? >> i mean, if you believe the rankings, president trump does not come close to bloomberg. and there are some people who think president trump's own valuations have been exaggerated over the years. certainly, there's, i think some rivalry there that has to do with society and culture and money and the whole new york culture as you put it. so, you know, that's part of it, he just wants democrats to be divided, that makes sense from a republican point of view, he would like to face up against bernie sanders as the nominee. that would give him a sharp contrast, socialist against the businessmen. he would like that kind of a

contest. >> mike bloom fwerg has already responded. here's what he tweeted back. why do you want to run against bernie so badly. carol? who does trump want to run against? i think he wants to run against bernie. >> he does. and the -- mike bloomberg in 2020 is what the dnc was for trump in 2016, saying there's unfairness. if there's anything that president trump is good at, it's to stir up the kinds of supporters that bernie sanders has. they see things as being unfair to his candidacy at times. and it's that same sort of thread that runs through a lot of president trump supporters. he's not only trying to stir up broad discord within the party. but narrowly within -- >> if bernie wins the nomination, which he could do, he could win the democratic nomination, trump will attack him as a socialist. if he doesn't get it, he will say he was screwed, right? >> extremely safe bet? >> in 2016, part of the strategy

that was politically effective for trump was going after hillary clinton toward key african-american voters. part of the democratic base. trying to sew this anger and frustration. that's what he's doing today. ig. >> tech: hi, i'm adrian. >> man: thanks for coming. ...with service i could trust. right, girl? >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ hello, i saw you move in, and i wanted to welcome you to the neighborhood with some homemade biscuits! >>oh, that's so nice! and a little tip, geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. >>hmm! >>cookies! uhh, biscuits. >>mmmm, is there a little nutmeg in there? oh it's my mum's secret recipe.

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my thanks to peter, carol and betsy, i'll be back for hardball at 7:00, and las vegas tomorrow. we'll be on the road tomorrow. i'll be in the spinning room tomorrow night when the candidates come after their big debate. "meet the press daily" starts right now with chuck todd. welcome to tuesday, it is a special edition of meet the press daily coming to you live from las vegas nevada, at the site of tomorrow night's democratic debate. check it out, there it is. the first time michael bloomberg will be on that stage after qualifyi