>> but the news is hot. >> that's correct. welcome to "am joy." i am indeed freezing, but coming to you from chilly las vegas on the heels of what looks like a massive win for bernie sanders right here in nevada. he's the projected winner with 41% of the vote with 50% of precincts reporting. he will likely walk awhich with the lion's share of the delegates. here is what sanders told supporters when he heard the news at a rally in texas. >> we are going to win across the country because the american people are sick and tired of a president who lies all of the time. they are sick and tired of a corrupt administration. they are sick and tired of a president who is undermining american democracy who thinks he

is above the law and who apparently has never read the constitution in this country. >> with nevada, new hampshire and iowa all in the rear view mirror, there's clearly somber any-mentum. while joe biden and bernie sanders are leading the polls in south carolina, we still don't know how anyone is going to do there, let alone on super tuesday when a third of the total delegates are up for grabs. but democrats, you know, despite that, they should still start sobering up and thinking about the real possibility that bernie sanders is going to end up the party's nominee. bernie is the front-runner now. full stop. it is what it is. so what does that mean for the democratic party. joining me now is jimmy williams, adviser to the tom steyer campaign, maria teresa

kumar, msnbc contributor and president of vote latino, tiffany cross, founder of the beat d.c. and resident fellow and chief public affairs officer for moveon.org and author of the great book "moving forward." thank you for being here, all friends of the show. you and i have been having this on going conversations for many years about when is this pop of latino voters, latinx voters that out number african-american voters nationwide but are the youngest population of all the demographic groups in the united states and tend to be voting at about 50% of their vote share even in presidential elections, just do not vote at the kind of levels in the past that african-americans have voted in. nevada is the first kind of proof of concept that if this voting group does vote in high

numbers, they really do have the power to push an election. in this case latino voters were very much for bernie sanders and that helped him. your thoughts? >> it helped him a lot. >> 51%. >> 51%. lets break down the latino vote. for the first time, joy, the latino vote will be the second largest in american history for this demographic. never happened before. every time we've chatted in the past we've talked about projections and we're now here. what's interesting is that while the majority of whites are 54, the majority of individuals are -- i'm so sorry. someone is in my ear. live tv you guys. the majority of whites are 54. majority of latinos are 19 years old. it's almost a perfect storm that you also have a backdrop of latinos coming of age and force behind a president that called their families and loved ones

rapists and criminals four years ago. in the last four years, you have 4 million more younger latino voters, angry, upset and trying to defend their families. we're seeing them not only come of age, but starting to registerality the fastest clip we've even seen. 79% once registered to vote. i can tell you normally for us to register 100,000 voters, it usually takes a whole year. we're almost getting that by super tuesday. people are interested, excited and engaged. what bernie sanders has done, and this is where the other folks really need to catch up, the other candidates, he's been talking to the young influencers in fair families, breaking down what is at stake for their family, and they, in turn, the young people have been influencing their aunts, their uncles. this is what we've been encouraging candidates to do for a long time. that's the essence of who voter latino is. young people have been

navigating for their families long before they turn 18 years old. that's what the stakes are. now, is bernie going to take it? that really has to be -- it depends on whether or not the democrats on the other side, the more rod rat democrats start to consolidate. the reason he's leading is because we still have roughly seven other candidates on the side that would make more mod ralts more comfortable. they have to start deciding, are they going to start dropping out of the field so they can consolidate that other vote and make it a challenge. >> we're putting up a little bit of the entrance poll information that talks about hispanic voters, 51% going for bernie sanders. lets look at a little more entrance poll information for my produce producers. nevada, sanders got 53%, biden only got 16. african-american voters, among

nevada's black voters biden got 36% and sanders got 27. tiffany, there is a difference between the sort of articulated preferences at least in the polling up to now of black voters and la teenx voters on different sides of this equation. i think the average african-american voter is older -- a lot older than the average latinax voter. younger african-americans are also with sanders. what does that mean for the party's prospects of overtaking him? at the end of the day, if younger voters come out in really high numbers, ironically, he's one of the oldest cad dats, but he benefits from that. if the older sort of church hat, older black women come out, then the race gets thrown kind of up in the air. >> i think you made such a great distinction that we don't often hear in the media landscape.

black and latinx voters disag great the same. college educated white voters feel this way, non-college educated men feel this way. the same exists in black and brown communities. to your point about younger black voters, we saw in 2018 young voters over indexed the exit poll. i anticipate him to be very active in this presidential election. in terms of black voter outreach, you see older black voters are very loyal to joe biden. i don't even know if it's necessarily a ground game or outreach at this point, it really is just familiarity, this is somebody they know. we can't overstate that this was the vice president to the first black president which meant so much to the older back voters in the electorate. when it gets to younger voters, we talked about this last night, obama was their floor, not their ceiling. we have to remember people referred to obama as a socialist when he was running, even though

he didn't self-identify that way. that didn't stop people from voting for him. what we saw in nevada is the latinx community went with who reached out for them. bernie was on the ground way earlier than other candidates. he invested money. he can't leave out the api community, the huge filipino population. nationally there are members of that community who say no one has reached out to them. this is the fastest growing demographic in the country that's been left untouched. a huge amount of latinx voters whose campaigns hasn't reached out to them. the race heads west soon. you have a huge population in texas and california. these voters are not a monolith. they disaggregate and breck down and their candidates will vary in terms of geography and what they care about and what they value. the same is true with black voters. i think the days of saying black voters feel this way, latin x voters feel that way.

that's the language of yesteryear used by a punditry class that hasn't caught up with the way the american body politic looks now. >> karin, you worked on the successful obama campaign. when did the campaign get the sense that this was cooked, that it was locked in? he won't iowa, barack obama, which was ironic. for a lot of black voters that was like, oh, because they were very skeptical that he could win anything. then he won. that woke up a lot of voters and then he lost. he lost in new hampshire and people went, wait a minute, it was a dash of cold water. then he gave the incredible yes we can speech. was it south carolina that wound up being the state that was -- that sealed it in internally in the campaign? >> you know what? south carolina has played that role in many cycles where you win south carolina and it kind of boosts your campaign and you're able to go along, go

further much quicker in a strong way through the primary. we have to remember this is a delegate game. this is about these candidates reaching the threshold and getting those delegates that get you in this particular cycle is 1991. that is the game that we played in 2008 for sure, trying to see how we're going to get to that -- closest to the number that gets you the nomination. this is what matters? this is where bernie sanders could run away with it. you have to be able to get that number. you have to get -- in every contest you're trying to figure out how do i get closer, how do i get closer? like you said, the first two contests in new hampshire and iowa were about 2%. the first four is about 4%. i think super tuesday is going to be the test. it's going to be the real test of where we are, and if bernie sanders can take away -- we have california, that's a big one that he spent a lot of time in. he was just in texas last night.

that's where he talked -- he was able to talk about his win in nevada last night, was in texas. he's had huge big crowds. and the thing about bernie sanders that i'm noticing is he's learning his lessons from 2016. 2016, when there were diverse states, he did not do well in. he did not win one county in south carolina in 2016. what his campaign has managed to do, they've taken those lessons and dived in like tiffany was saying. he was in the state very early in that caucus state last night and really hired people that looked like the community. they had a real strategy, a real ground game, not just talk, but actually reaching out to the community. if he continues to do that in nevada, in south carolina and very much these diverse states that we're coming into in super tuesday states, who is going to be the person that's going to compete, and that's what's an influence. we don't know who is going to

come out of the other six, seven candidates that's going to be able to compete with bernie sanders. >> which brings us to jimmy williams who is in south carolina supporting tom steyer. i interviewed tom steyer last night who has not picked up a delegate yet, has invested a lot of money. jimmy williams, there are a lot of candidates that are essentially keeping the moderate wing from consolidating around anybody but bernie sanders. one of the reasons sanders does feel like all most a locked front-runner is because everybody else is split between all these other candidates including the candidate you're supporting. my question to you is does south carolina wind up having the moderate vote disaggregated so much and broken up so much between biden who is being held down in part by your candidates, tom steyer and his spending and held down by the sort of etherial prospect that's not on the ballot of bloomberg, all the rest of that wind up pushing

sanders through? >> that's a good question. i think we'll find out in exactly six days. but let me just say this about south carolina. karine said something interesting about how socialism did not stick to barack obama. you know why it didn't stick to barack obama? because obama, no one thought he was a socialist. bernie sanders thinks he's a socialist. bernie sanders is a socialist. i'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing. what i'm saying is this is a different game here. we're playing -- the idea that bernie sanders who is polling second here right now behind joe biden only by five points is surging like that, that tells you something about the changing electorate here in south carolina. what happens, to answer your question, what happens to the disparate vote between everybody else and joe biden, i don't know. i always said the state has over 60% of the democratic primary electorate is black. so they control who wins this

state. that doesn't mean joe biden is going to get 60% of the caucus -- primary goers in south carolina. he won't. that vote is going to be split out. but it's not going to be split out amongst five people. it's going to be split out amongst three people at most. i think coming out of iowa, new hampshire and nevada, bernie is, i will agree with you, he is definitely making a footprint and people are waking up to that. does he win south carolina? can we surge enough to win? i don't think so. i tell you why, back to my original point, bernie sanders is an actual socialist, a democratic socialist. that does not play well here. people don't like it. guess where else they don't like it? they don't like it in the super tuesday states. that's a dirty word in this country. if you don't believe me, look at the latest polling. 61% of americans won't vote for you if you're, quote, a socialist. so come to south carolina and we're going to show you. we probably won't vote for a

socialist. it doesn't mean he's not going to be the nominee. let me say this as well, barack obama and george bush -- this is going to be very controversial -- allowed both major political parties in this country to become fringe parties. that's what's happened here. donald trump took the republicans and made the fringe party. if bernie sanders gets the nomination, it will make the democrats a refringe party. and the rest of the country is going to look around and go what the hell about us? where are we supposed to say. i would like to say to barack obama, hillary clinton, anyone else, mr. clyburn is going to announce his endorsement on wednesday, it's time for you all to speak up. it's time for our leaders that we've elected over and over again, the 30,000-foot leaders of the democratic party to speak up because if you don't speak up now, then we're going to have bernie sanders as our nominee and ha is a disaster for the country, a major disaster for the country, and the infighting that's happening within this

family right now, the democratic family is going to get worse and worse and worse. the reckoning is coming and it's time for our former party leaders to speak up and speak out and start endorsing. they've got to do it now. >> we're out of time. we'll have everybody back. i'm going to give myself the last word. here are two things i will say back. i'm not going to claim anybody else's age. we don't talk about age on television. i'm generation x. hip-hop was invented in my generation. i had a hard time trying to convince my kids that hip-hop from their generation was better than mine. it's really not. in their mind it is. now there are more of them than there are of us, there are more of -- >> but are they going to vote? >> hold on, hold on. hold on a second. they haven't up until now, but the country is being turned over

to this younger generation and younger people, whether they are people of color or young white people are angry. they are angry because they are broke. they are angry because when i was my daughter's age, i could live by myself in an apartment. i didn't need six roommates. they're angry because they can't find jobs that pay a decent wage, they can't afford health care if they're not on their gen-x parents' health care. they're angry because they can't afford their insulin pens. this is a generation that feels left behind economically. then they say billionaires not paying taxes. we think they're not going to to vote. we think they won't vote for a cerebralist. they don't care about socialism. i'm giving myself the last word. i'm saying, jimmy, we don't know who they'll vote for. >> you're right. >> if we go in with despair, don't have an election and keep donald trump in there, because

at the end of the day, whether you want bernie sanders or not, you might get him. if you get him, you're going to have to get in your mind right with the idea that this democratic socialist is who you got and it's him or trump. it's a binary election when it comes to november. i'm going to give myself the last word just on that. >> that's fine. >> we're going to keep everybody. we'll bring everybody back. everybody stick around. more "am joy" after the break. i've always been fascinated by what's next.

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all right. sometimes the conversation is so good, you just extend it. we're going to extend and add in david koran. get into this debate. here is the thing, david. we were just having this debate with our friends. we keep going by what happened in the past. if you go by elections as

written up in political science books, bernie sanders seems like a candidate who cannot win. we don't really know it. we're in unknowable times. >> that's always the issue with electability. we argue about electability. people said donald trump was not electable. in a lot of ways he wasn't and he got some lucky bounces. >> like help from russia. >> and threaded the needle. he literally squeaked in. people said he wasn't electable. now, with bernie, my concern about the question when you talk about electability with him is maybe he'll bring in people in, as he says, as you were talking about, young people and excite voters who weren't there. at the same time we've never seen bernie sanders deal with half a billion dollars in negative ads mounted against him about socialism, things he's written in the past, things that trump is already talking about. the ads don't need to be true. they can say the socialist party of america says this, and it's

not what bernie says because he's not in the socialist party. until we see that type of attack and how he handles it and whether it has an impact, he's more of an unknown than any other candidates. we look at joe biden and elizabeth warren and see how they worked in american politics. bernie is completely outside the box and that could be good or it could be terrible. we don't know. >> here's the challenge. democrats have not hit bernie sanders with oppo research. there's blowback if you say his name on social media. you can't say his name right now without a smile. i'm probably being ethered on twitter for even saying the words. i'm being honest. there are people on his senior team i have blocked from twitter because i can't take it. the reality is he is not a warm and fuzzy candidate for people who are not in the movement. we don't know what it's going to

look like because other campaigns have been ginger with them because we don't want the blowback. what happens to his core base when he gets hit with what we know is going to come? michael bloomberg, who used to be a republican, previewed it by using the word communism to talk about bernie sanders. what happens then? >> that's the challenge. all i can think about when david was unpacking it for us, we can all agree is you can kiss florida goodbye. i say that, floridians -- latinos that have fled socialism, they have fled and they are in florida and they have sensibilities that are different from the rest of the latino community. you pair that down with more conservative folks that are democrats in florida and i don't see a pathway for him there. that's just the beginning. i can tell you right now donald trump has been targeted folks on my staff since march of last year an anti democratic

socialist message in spanglish, english and spanish. people don't realize there's a socialization happening on the trump campaign that's been very effective. then you understand the population of someone like a floridian voter and you know vying floor, he's going to figure out, if i don't have florida -- i'm almost 125,000 percent confident he wouldn't get it. where is the pathway? that's the sensibility of the voter. >> karine, with barack obama, we made the point earlier it didn't work because he's a kenyan marxist, stuff that was just ridiculous. it just didn't work with him. what happens when parts of it are true, when you have tape of him praising fidel castro. that's the stuff that hasn't come out yet. how does russia figure out how to weaponize this.

for the sanders supporters, this isn't to slam him. you need to know this, too. don't go on karine's twitter. >> first of all, i have to give my sister tiffany, she made the point about the socialist, it was not me, the brilliant point about how obama was seen. >> i'm sorry. >> that's okay. i just want to put the credit where it's due. that's a really big question. i do think there has not been a lot of oppo research dumped on bernie sanders over the last -- this whole entire primary cycle thus far. there is a question of how is he going to handle that now that he's being called a front-runner, and it's going to come his way. maria teresa kumar is right. there is a social movement happening. they're blanketing facebook, spending millions of dollars consistently on facebook trying

to put that message out there about socialism. i think he would coin that with whoever is the nominee, call him a socialist. the thing is bernie sanders is the one calling himself a democratic socialist. i want to see something -- i've been thinking about this. in the polling, the question is only socialists. i'm curious to see how respondents would feel if it's democratic socialists because it's a little more nuanced. i haven't seen that in any of the polling. that's a question i have out there. i want to go back to something you had said earlier, joy. this is not three decades ago. we're not in 1992. what we're seeing with this democratic electorate that's changing is they don't want a corporate democrat. that is not what these young folks want. like you said, they're seeing the financial crisis, seeing mass incarceration. they want a big change. they want to get to the other side of things and break through. that's why that political revolution works so well with the young people. now, are they going to get them

out? it's getting them out to vote. we have to remember, 2018, young people came out to vote. we saw them coming out in record numbers. you have to capture that and grow that coalition. that is the key, who is going to be able to do that in 2020. >> jimmy williams -- go ahead, tiffany. >> i just wanted to say really quickly, yes, i completely echo karine's point. when it comes to young people, i take the entire panel's point about socialism. that's a word that scares people. i think a lot of the socialism label sometimes is only talked about among the punditry class. when you get out and talk to these young people, they aren't so afraid of socialism because you're telling them, we want to raise the minimum wage to $15, we don't want you that pay for college. we want you to have medicare.

they're not necessarily thinking about execution. they're thinking this is somebody talking to me who can improve my life tomorrow. the challenge is it's only favorable with 39% of americans. there's this huge electorate out there, they are fearful about what that means and they say -- they don't understand the nuances. they see news about venezuela and think i don't want this country looking like that. i don't think everybody has done a great job highlighting that nuance. i want to address the point made about obama needs to come out and speak and hillary fleeds to come out and speak. i echo the sentiment. i think we all would love to hear from the last actual real president we had. when hillary does come out and speak she is ethered, they criticize her and say you should go away, how dare you say something negative, especially from the sanders campaign. lastly, i just want to say as a person who is a tail end

gen-xor, our hip-hop is clearly better. >> we had biggie and naz. >> we had tupac. >> lauren hill. >> i'm just saying. jimmy, here's the thing. i lived through the '04 campaign watching that crash and burn because there's not a history of your average moderate being able to win because they don't get enough intensity. even the candidate you're supporting is out in front saying reparations and climate change and he's not running as a bland moderate. really quickly, to stay with you, the other x factor is that it used to be that white working class voters could get this sort of -- w.b. dubois talked about, you don't get money, don't get.

you get extra stuff. that is gone. you do have a certain percentage of white americans that now just see they don't have any money. now they realize they ain't getting nothing in exchange for this americanness. those people, we don't know if they're open to voting for people like bernie sanders even if he calls himself a democratic socialist. >> right, right. let me make a couple of points. first and foremost, this isn't necessarily -- our number one goal this entire debate is to defeat donald trump, period. that's the biggest goal ever of all time, right? don't forget you have lots and lots of other people on the ballot besides donald trump. way down the ballot. joe cunningham in south carolina, the first district. you have bernie sanders as the nominee. despite that bernie sanders being the nominee and joe cunningham running for

re-election in a red district, it doesn't matter bernie will be called a socialist. what matters is that will be repeated across the country throughout lots of congressional dikts that these people in congress are against their own nominee. that's the infighting that republicans want, are salivating, will get if that's the case. lets have a conversation about 2018 and millennials. in 2016 less than 50% of millennials showed up to vote. we got donald trump. in 2018 predictably or unpredictably, 54% of millennials showed up. my question is where the hell were the other 44%? get off your ass and go vote. if they do that in 2020, guess what? bernie sanders can win. if they don't, we get four more years of donald trump. i'm not willing to take that chance. >> we will see what happens. free advice to the sanders campaign. you'll have to find a way to

make peace with the general order democrats. you need them. >> that hasn't been playing so far. >> they might have to rethink that. we're going to keep david corn because we messed up his whole segment. the only female prosecutor during the watergate scandal and her fight for truth and justice against a criminal president. more "am joy" live from las vegas. pnc bank has technology to help a pnc business line of credit, because sometimes inner peace requires a little external soundproofing. or pnc total auto. a place online to easily find and finance the right car for you. and your passengers. or pnc home insight, to search for a new house within your budget. hopefully with a grass yard. pnc - make today the day. and you may know us from your very first sandwich,esh, your mammoth masterpiece, and whatever this was.

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so in a sense what you're saying is there are certain situations where the president can decide that it's in the best interest of the nation or something and do something illegal? >> well, when the president does it, that means it is not illegal. >> well, years ago my next guest was the only woman on the legal team tasked with investigating a corrupt and criminal president. the administration officials who enabled him. here she was. show her looking fly. uh-oh -- oh, there she is. she's super cute. years later, what advice does she have for the country who is dealing with an arguably even more corrupt president who got help from a foreign country no less. joining me is jill weinbanks, author of the great new book

"the watergate girl." i'm so excited about this book, jill, both because i adore you and you're so brilliant. but it's just the right time to read a history that comes from you, you've been through these experiences. that interview we just showed of mr. troft interviewing nixon, what strikes me is that you write in your book, despite that madness, the system actually worked back then. talk a little bit about that. >> it definitely did. you had a situation where in the end richard nixon resigned. he respected the rule of law. he got caught and he left. nothing like that is going to happen now. we had witnesses. we had documents, we were able to prove our case. but right now the white house is totally stonewalling, much more than nixon did, and repeated the same things he did, the same comment you heard alan dershowitz say basically the same thing, if the president does it and it's in the best interest of the country, it

can't be illegal. you've heard the president say artic article 2 gives him unlimited power which it does not. we're in much more danger now. the book does not deal with trump. he's not even mentioned until the epilogue. i think readers will definitely see parallels. the book also coffers what it was like to be the only woman in the room and what it was like for all women at the time. it captures the era. >> can you talk a little bit about that? that's one of the things people forget. you're talking about an era in the 1970s where women probably only for five years had been able to open their own bank account let alone a woman prosecutor. talk about that a little bit. >> it was. it starts when you're in law school and only 5% of your class is female and you're told that a man will die in vietnam because you're taking his rightful place in the class. when you're interviewing for jobs and are asked questions

like what kind of birth control do you use and what would you do if you were having a dinner party and a client had an emergency, questions no man would be asked. then when you're told we can't hire you because everybody else on the staff is a man and it would require travel and we can't possibly let you travel with a man. so it was learning how to solve those problems and many, many others without a role model. without anyone to consult with. so that's what it was like back then. now there's some power in numbers, but there's a lot that still continues and i hope that women will take some guidance from this in terms of knowing that you sometimes have to confront things, sometimes harshly, but a lot of times a softer approach is better to get what you want. if your goal is to accomplish something, that's what's important. >> how did you wind up in that position? given how difficult it was for a

woman to get -- as you said, even get through law school without being shunted off to be a housewife? how did you even wind up there? >> i actually went to law school because i wanted a journalism job. my undergraduate degree was journalism. i was offered jobs on the woman's page and i wanted to do real news. i thought law school might get me that opportunity. so i wasn't planning to be a lawyer. then i somehow found that i liked trial and advocacy and was lucky enough to get a job at the department of youity and was an organized crime prosecutor for a few years when watergate happened and i was offered that opportunity. it was the most extraordinary opportunity ever offered, although at the time of course i didn't know that. it could have turned out to be no big deal like many investigations turn out. of course, it turned out to be a scandal, showing corruption and

criminality in the white house and the campaign to reelect the president. it turned out to open a lot of doors for me. 50 years later, i actually have my opportunity to be on msnbc. so it's where i wanted to be to begin with. >> absolutely. you ended up where you wanted. at the end of that experience and investigating the president, did you come to believe that richard nixon should -- was a criminal to the extent he should have been prosecuted, he should have wound out actually himself actually criminally prosecuted for what he did? >> i believed then and i still believe now that there's nothing in the constitution that would probably indicting a sitting president. lee ann jaworski, the second special prosecutor after cox was fired insisted that that was the wrong way and there was a legitimate impeachment process going on so we instead created roadmap to impeachment and we applied to the court and got

permission to give the tapes that we had subpoenaed, white house tapes and the transcripts and other evidence to the house judiciary committee which they used to go ahead with the impeachment process. so it had a good outcome. where you have a senate that will never convict the president and won't even consider evidence and documents, that's not an option. so you have to have some other way of proceeding to hold a president accountable. and i don't think the constitution prohibits that. obviously the federal government will not allow it because william barr has shown everybody that he will defend the president no matter what. so the option now has to be states maybe have some opportunity to hold him accountable and, more importantly, the voters have to hold him accountable. so it's great that they have the opportunity hopefully to learn

the facts from other sources. >> jill wine-banks, the book is "the watergate girl." your pin. >> dancing backwards in high heels which was a phrase used about ginger rogers and how she had to work harder than fred astaire in order to be successful, and the book talks so much about the hurdles. my editor said it's a combination of hidden figures and "all the president's men." this is sort of my book tour pin. >> i love it. well, i cannot wait to dive into this book. it's called "the watergate girl." thank god you're here. we love to have your brain available to us. >> i wish you were here with me. >> i do, too. it's freezing here. thank you. coming up, the writer who dubbed

the phrase "the billionaire election" will join us to talk about the state of the race. more "am joy" live from las vegas next. in america we all count. no matter where we call home, how we worship, or who we love. and the 2020 census is how that great promise is kept. because this is the count that informs where hundreds of billions in funding will go each year for things like education, healthcare, and programs that touch us all. shape your future. start here. learn more at 2020census.gov

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coming up, democratic moderates face an existential question -- to stop bernie sanders do they have to nominate a billionaire? more "a.m. joy" after the break live from las vegas. i've always loved seeing what's next. and i'm still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'll go for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin.

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i can't speak for all billionaires. all i know is i've been very lucky, made a lot of money and i'm giving it all away to make this country better. and a good chunk goes to the democratic party as well. >> is it too much? have you earned too much -- has it been an obscene amount -- should you have earned that much money? >> yes. i worked very hard for it and i'm giving it away. welcome back to "a.m. joy." that argument by michael bloomberg doesn't exactly alleviate concerns that he's buying his way into the election. in december and january alone, just check this out, he spent

$464 million. when you look at just january alone, he spent $220 million. that comes out to $7 million per day. $300,000 per hour. $5,000 per minute. $82 per second. when you compare that to his rivals, tom steyer, the other billionaire in the race, comes in second, having spent over a little over $52 million. all the other candidates are lagging way, way, way far behind. my next guest questions the role of each of these mega rich candidates in a "new york times" op-ed called "the billionaire election election: does the world belong to them or us." a friend of the show, author of "winners take all."

good morning. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> i'm going to read a little of you to you. you wrote this in "the new york times." there was never a way for mr. bloomberg to run as anything other than mr. billionaire. the pitch he landed on was incorruptibility. i'll be the only candidate in this race who isn't corruptible. mr. bloomberg told an audience in phoenix last november who isn't going to take a penny for anyone and will work for $1 a year. this was the best he could do. to suggest a billionaire would make him more honest that being a billionaire doesn't have to listen to other billionaires. that sounds like the argument donald trump made. i'll let you elaborate. >> thinking about this being the day after nevada, the michael bloomberg fa nphenomenon, is thy of explaining the bernie sanders fa phenomenon. you have to take a stand on extreme wealth and democracy in

order to be a conscious voter. last night was an historic win that a lot of us are struggling to understand. historic not just because you now have three victories in a row. it's not historic only because bernie sanders is now decisively proving he can win in milk white america and in the emerging super power of color that we are becoming in the coming decades, but i really would argue that it is historic because we are starting to see that we may be paddling through a bend in the river of history here. something is happening in america right now that actually does not fit our mental models. it certainly doesn't fit the mental models of a lot of people on tv, a lot of people in the parties, it doesn't fit our cultural mental models. you have someone talking about, in a way we have not heard, genuine, deeper democracy, popular movements, human equality and a meaningful way. and a politics of love in the tradition of dr. king. and winning elections, in

america, the united states of america. and i just have to say -- i've been encouraged watching you on air rethinking your own way of things, which we all have to be in this type of work, i think this is a wake-up moment for the american power establishment. for michael bloomberg to those of us in the media, to democratic party, to donors, to ceos. many in this establishment are behaving, in my view, as they face the prospect of a bernie sanders nomination, like out of touch aristocrats in a dying aristocracy. why is this happening? what is going on in the lives of my fellow citizens that they may be voting for something i find so hard to understand? what is happening? this is a moment for curiosity. i think about this network, which i love, you love, and i

think we have to look within also why is a lobbyist for uber and mark zuckerberg on the air many nights explaining a political revolution to us? why is chris matthews on this air talking about the victory bernie sanders, who had kim murdered in the holocaust, an analogizing it to the conquest of france. people stuck in an old way of thinking, in 20th century thinking are missing what is going on. it is time for all of us to step up, rethink the dawn of what may be, frankly, a new era in american life. >> well, you know, i don't know who the lobbyist is, but i will defend my frebd chris matthews. i don't think he was trying to make it an anti-youish d anti-j disparagement of mr. sanders. i think chris is speaking about the cultural revoltion for

people of chris' era. for a lot of people it's refl reflexive. they grew up with the anti-ussr. even myself as a gen xer. i grew up in colorado and told we would be nuked if russia bombed us. in america people merge communism and socialism into one big vat. i wouldn't go there with chris. but i will say this, i think one of the biggest tricks, one of the greatest tricks ever pulled on the world is for really rich people to convince the world that just being really rich made you superior to other people. and got everyone to buy it, right? they got poor people to buy it. donald trump is only known because people thought he was

rich. they weren't even sure he was rich. he wouldn't even confirm he was rich. all he had to do was seem he was rich and he got to host a tv show. we had a thing called "lifestyles of the rich and famous" when i was growing up. we eagerly watched rich people in their home. we watch real housewives and we watch people we perceive as rich walk around. as we watch them entertain us, they are taking the courts. they are taking citizens united, they've taken our politics, they've taken this country. donald trump is not helping the work wog class people. he's making them broke while they are worshipping rich people who are getting rich. >> correct. >> i wonder if maybe you think the bloomberg on the one end of the spectrum and bernie on the other is a sign that the spell is broken, that maybe people are like, hold on a second, rich people aren't giving me anything, you know. >> yes. >> even donald trump said, i'll give you racism, i'll give you racism, it isn't working anymore. >> that's so well put.

when i wrote "winners take all," which you showed, the heart of the book -- my editor once asked me, what is this book about in one move? this is a book about moves, the dance moves rich people pull off, the dives and twirls they pull off to make us think they are saving us, they are our saviors from the very problems they are still working hard to cause. so, a couple of yours -- a couple of those moves. one is i make problems, i as i'm michael bloomberg, i make my entire fortune selling terminals and technology to the financial sector, which is the industry that has done the most to destroy opportunity in america for regular people, and then i have the gall to turn around and richsplain myself describing the movement i'm still causing. another move is the intelligence thing. the idea of being rich gives you

general intelligence. if you succeed of creating a essential network because you're too socially awkward to meet girls in person, you're now an authority on public school education. you should be in charge of rethinking that. that's another move. in this election, you are actually -- you're completely right about the spell breaking. this is not about particular candidates. this is not about bernie. this is not about michael bloomberg. in is about 40 years of a neoliberal paradigm maybe breaking, maybe shattering, maybe people waking up to us. a lot in the media are the last to know. i've been on the trail and seen all these white guys in camo, as i've described before on this network, in the middle of a bernie sanders rally who do not look like socialist and i verify, in fact, are you a socialist? nope, not a socialist. hate those socialists. why are you at this rally? because bernie's fighting for me. there is something happening in this country where people are actually not fooled by the idea that joseph mccarthy was trying to kind of worry us about.

they don't think this is going to be the next domino to fall in the cold wart, because the cold wart is over, in part. just america join, the rest of the advanced world to make sure regular people are not dying on the street of the flu, are getting a decent education, to flourish and are living the kind of life we think we are living in a country where we say we have the american dream. >> yeah. i mean, the last people who maybe will find out will be the trump voter who will maybe eventually figure out that all they're getting are bobbles, too. that there's nothing in it for them. they're not going to get anything. they may be the last to find out. people of color are usually the first to find out. we've always been told, you ain't getting nothing. we're saying, now that we have equality, that's a mask you can e even hand to white people where you say, at least i get better citizenship. now i get nothing. i agree, something is happening. people are waking up to the fact

that rich people may be lying to them. i'm just going to add more people to the conversation. stay with me. i want to add jonathan capehart to the conversation, an msnbc contributor, opinion columnist for "the washington post." back with me, karine jean-pierre, and tiffany cross, resident fellow at the harvard kennedy school. everybody feel free to jump in. what do you make of that? jonathan, i'll bring you in since this is your first appearance today on the show. what do you make of that? because it does feel like rich people have been able to really trick people for a long time. you go all the way back to darin you go back to michael bloomberg. what was stop and frisk? it was trying to move away the poor people in the way of gentrification. so, i want brooklyn back employ i'm going to move rich people in but now we have to get rid of the brown and black people so they don't bother the rich people. people are stiging this stuff

out. do you think that's helping bernie sanders and hurting bloomberg, or is it hurting him, jonathan? >> it's probably helping bernie sanders. i have to say to things before i give you my full answer and disclosures. one, i worked for michael bloomberg on his first campaign for mayor as policy adviser and, two, my husband currently is working on the bloomberg campaign. i put that out there so everyone knows. if you read my writing, you know this already. so, now i'll answer your question. the problem i have with a non-piece in "the new york times," which is well argued and i respect the argument it's making, i kept thinking while reading it, it's so -- what happens to people when they make money? it's as if -- for anan's argument, when you cross over from millionaire to billionaire you become evil.

there are untold numbers of wealthy people who are democrats who believe in the things that we talk on on your show every week, who believe in equality, who are doing everything possible to balance the -- level the playing field. the comparison between president trump and mayor bloomberg i think is rather disingenuous. one, president trump had never served in public office before becoming president of the united states. i can understand -- to your point, joy, about bringing up stop and frisk, the reason why we can talk about it is because as mayor, michael bloomberg supported that policy, ran that policy, but he also ran for public office three times and won. he has been held accountable by actual voters. so when you're looking at the campaign of michael bloomberg versus, say, the other billionaire, we think, in the

race on the other side, donald trump, you have actually a whole -- pardon the pun -- wealth of information to look at when trying to determine whether michael bloomberg as president of the united states, if he were to even get the nomination, would be somebody who would be a benevolent actor in the white house who would be corrupt. the other thing is, over 12 years as mayor of new york city, leave aside the policies that were damaging and hurtful and harmful, but to anan's point in his piece, he was talking about corruption. there is no corruption in the 12 years of a bloomberg administration, financial corruption or anything like that. so, i think we need to have a much more balanced consideration here because in the end, the reason michael bloomberg has been rising in the polls isn't just the fact he's spending untold millions of dollars on his presidential campaign, it's because there are people looking

at him as someone who could vanquish donald trump. let's not forget, donald trump is an existential threat and folks like my mother look at him as the guy who could could take out trump. >> can i briefly respond to that? >> yeah, please do. >> first, it's anan, rhymes with almo almond. >> my apologies. >> those who defend michael bloomberg in the press have been paid by michael bloomberg or their city received money from michael bloomberg. this is a crucial part of the bloomberg strategy. i think it's not an accident. tom friedman made a column michael bloomberg has to disclose, michael bloomberg's funding my wife's museum. so, this is -- >> wait. hold on. can i say one thing? >> even if it's not a corrupt -- >> that's not fair. >> hold on. >> that's unfair. >> yeah, let -- because -- >> can i finish my point?

jonathan questioned my argument. i'm happy to send jonathan a copy of "winners take all," it's written for the question he asks. aren't there some billionaires better than others? they're not all donald trump. i agree with that. the argument i make carefully, and i'll send him a copy, even the good ones are part of a generational theft in this country that have seen the top 1% add to their wealth by $21 trillion and the bottom 50% lose $1 trillion of wealth in that period. and the good ones and the bad ones have all in different ways participated in that. if you use a tax haven, as michael bloomberg does in bermuda, you are part of that. if you have made money from the financialization of the american economy, you have been part of that. everybody does not have to be donald trump to be part of the problem of mplutocracy, an oligarch. >> my question for a lot of people -- bernie sanders is a millionaire. he has three homes. there's a question for a lot of people of, where's the cutoff?

he's a millionaire. tom steyer is a billionaire who's given a lot of money to causes like climate change that are really important. so, why isn't bernie sanders a plutocrat? >> there's a big difference between million dollars and billion dollars. a million dollars is enough money to have a nice house in america and $1 billion is enough to buy an election in america. those are very different types of purchases. i think we deceive people by making it -- there have been people trying to call bernie sanders an oligarch. it's preposterous. >> yeah, i'm not -- i'm not calling him an oligarch. >> no, i know. we're in a situation in this country in which we actually know from data and facts that this country is being run for the benefit of a very small number of people where the fruits of the future are being basketed almost entirely by a small group of people. to claim anybody with $1 million is doing that, it's not borne

out by the data. we have a billionaire problem. i want to make sure we are focussed on understanding that even people who seem like the good ones, whether that's michael bloomberg to you or tom steyer or someone like bill gates who gives it all away. bill gates is problematic, too. bill gates should not have that much power over public education. no one should. >> no one should, but i think -- >> let's bring everyone in. you're talking about systematic flaws in the government system, systematic flaws making sure people are equitable, paying their fair share into a society that actually allows them to have these fruits. most of us are in agreement with that, absolutely. but the challenge is to put bloomberg akin to donald trump because he, too, is a billionaire or anyone for that matter is almost -- we miss the point. the problem with donald trump -- >> where did i say -- >> the problem with donald trump

is he is an authoritarian despot white nationalist and a complete threat to our world order and he uses his semblance of money to make sure that's okay. i think that is where sometimes we get lost in the conversation. let's be very clear. if we want to change the system, the problem is not necessarily the billionaires. the problem is we have to go after our government, making sure we make sure people pay actual taxes. we have to scrap citizens united. if we don't like the system, which we're all currently functioning in, the progressive infrastructure would not be viable against the republican machine without those billionaires. you cannot compare a george sorros to a donald trump or the koch brothers for that matter. the -- the reason people even question whether there's climate change and whether or not there is actual science behind it is because the koch funded that making sure people questioned

whether that was an issue. i would encourage us to have a broader conversation about what are the structures that need to change fundamentally so these billionaires come into the system where they are making sure we don't have high levels of inequity. people say, young people want a free ride. they don't want a free ride. they're stuck with $1 thrill onin debt. meaning that student debt they can never possibly buy a home, they don't have a shot at the american dream the way our current system is structured. it's not dissimilar. that's where we were $100 years ago when we had the rockefellers, when we had the mccarthy -- not the mccarthys. but when we had this -- the same type of billionaire class in the millionaire scope and we had to come to a moment of, how are we going to invest and nation build in our whole economy so we make sure we have a thriving middle class. that we do not have right now. >> tiffany, you know, because what i can't -- can i ask you a question, but say what you want to say.

i don't know if you're seeing this, too, but what i'm seeing, despite all this conversation we're having, is the people running up to me in the airport and saying, oh, my god, can't michael bloomberg just beat trump, are black women. that's what i'm seeing. a lot of black women being the ones most attracted to the idea of him as a potential savior. i'll let you go ahead and make your comment. >> yeah, thank you. that question was a perfect segue. i take everybody's point. i take maria's point. i think there is a sect in society, particularly among people of color, who look at donald trump and michael bloomberg in the same category. these are two wealthy white men who sometimes masquerade their desire to lead as more of a desire to rule. when you have these draconian policies they -- >> tiffany, let me -- >> i'll get to you your point. let me make my point, maria. maria, can i make my point? i'm not disagreeing with you. >> one at a time.

>> thanks. so, i take the point that these are two different people, but i'm saying not everybody is sitting around on sunday reading "the new york times" op-ed pages to get that nuanced argument. for people not following or consuming the minutia of this, there is -- i'm not saying this is my view. i'm saying this is how some people view it. to maria's point, yes, we have to look at the difference be between these two men. they are not the same people, but the does perception matter or is reality -- is this where reality and perception meet? your point, anand, the different between michael bloomberg being a billionaire and bernie sanders being a millionaire to the person who has nothing, there's not a big difference between them either. >> that's exactly right. >> the person making $20,000, $30,000 a year, they don't see is the big financial tax bracket difference between these men. they see the haves and i am the have nots. >> i want to make sure karine gets in, too. moveon.org, it started out as a

movement that was an email list about not impeaching a very popular president for nothing, right? because republican -- but you go behind the reason republicans wanted him gone, it was about the idea that having a democrat in place would allow a democrat to fill the courts. for republicans, it's all about that one thing. we think of the court fight being about abortion. but for republicans, it's mostly about plutocracy. it's mostly about. shoveling more resources into the hands of the rich. so much of the fights we have -- so many of the fights we have seem to be about one thing but there's always about money. and the republican party is a concentrated machine for funneling money to the very rich and corporations. they fool us with all these other social issues to keep us occupied. that's my opinion. let me allow you in. >> no, i agree with you 110%, joy. first of all, i love and respect everybody on this panel. i'll start off saying that.

look, you know, i think about just going back to billionaires and the role they play. we have to remember, billionaires bought the economy and it crashed in 2008. who had to pay for that? people who had to pay for that were people like my parents who lost almost everything. lost a home. and that is -- and that is the thing to remember. it trickles down to the very people we're talking about who are trying to get out of the situation that we're in with donald trump. and now you have a billionaire who's trying to buy an election. we have to be honest about this. that is what bloomberg is doing. he came in late and he put in hundreds of millions of dollars on tv. and it's not that people are giving him a pass. it's that he's controlling the narrative. what happened for the first time last week on the debate stage is that he was questioned. he was pushed. he had to answer for stop and frisk. he had to answer for ndas.

so, that is -- that is what's happening. i have to go back to stop and frisk for a minute. that was incredibly dis disingenuous. he doesn't leave his house without knowing what foot to put first. he knew that policy was bad. he knew it. he knew he was hurting people. and he continued it. the courts had to stop him. it ruined many, many lives. so, that is something i have to say is just a disingenuous argument and apology. >> very quickly, i want to get jonathan in and then let anand have the last word. jonathan, how does he -- an apology is an apology, but, you know, to karine's point, he has a lot of baggage. but black people seem to be open to it. it is confusing to me. >> right. well, my mom's going to kill me by sharing this conversation after i told her i wouldn't. but it's the perfect

distillation, still after watching the debate she said she was leaning towards bloomberg but her heart is kind of with biden. vice president biden is such a nice guy. he always wants to turn the other cheek and bloomberg is like, what cheek? for my mother, who's a 78-year-old woman who grew up in s segregated south in north carolina, for her to see what's happening to this country is sad. she wants donald trump gone and defeated. she thinks michael bloomberg is the person who can do it. regardless of stop and frisk, regardless of all the true harm that he caused with that policy, but she sees him as the guy with the wear wiherewithal and the resources and hit the ground running and take donald trump out. that for her and all the black women coming up to you, joy, in airports and everywhere, that is their number one goal. you said it yourself, black women are the canaries in the

coal mine. we should start listening to black women. >> let me give you the last word on this, anand. why are they wrong? i've been astounded by the number of black women, particularly black women over 40, who have been coming up -- black women over 50, over 60, really intensely clinging to michael bloomberg as a life line. why are they wrong? >> i never say voters are wrong. i think candidates may be wrong to argue the way they argue. voters are all kinds of reasons to choose what they choose. i can only tell them what i think. what i'm suggesting is these things we're talking about michael bloomberg, these different things are not unconnected. the stop and frisk, when you know better, is the smugness of the out-of-touch person who doesn't understand, able to see other person. it's the smugness -- this question of michael bloomberg is not as corrupt as donald trump. in a certain sense that is true,

obviously true. in another sense, the very notion of trying to win the election and the way bloomberg is, is corruption. frankly, the attempt to purchase the presidency of the united states may be legal, but it is corruption on a scale that makes a ukraine deal look actually quite trivial. and i think the question now is are we going to get past the myth that i've heard in some of this discussion about the good billionaire versus the bad billionaire. we are living in a plutocracy. you either recognize that or you don't. if you do recognize that, you think we need to make the plutocrats less powerful, all of them less powerful. there are very few in the plutocracy, left or right, including george sorros, by the way, who want to make themselves less powerful. if you want justice to flourish in america, have you to make those people less powerful. i do not believe they'll be the leaders of the change that displaces them and allows how many flourishing to come back to this country. >> plutocracy or autocracy, an

terrifying time to be alive. >> or interesting. >> we'll see. there's not a lot of trust out there. we'll see. it's tough. i like the fact that we have good friends who are smart people who can come on and have these discussions and walk away all friends. thank you very much. anand giridharadas, careen, jonathan, tiffany, stick around. this is deep today. i hope you have a lot of coffee in your system. up next, trying to predict the unpredictable. that will be another interesting discussion. more "a.m. joy" after the break.

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so far the race for 2020 has been anything but predictable, but if the 2016 election taught

us anything at all, it is always to brace for the unsuspected. at times it feels like the media hasn't learned a very simple lesson. if you don't know, maybe you should just say you don't know. joining me now is eric boller, author and editor at press run media newsletter and david korn and the author of "russian r roulette." eric, ei've been honest saying have no idea who will win the 2020 election. i used to be pretty good. the first time i was really wrong 2016 and from then i'm humble about it. i'm open to the outcome. do you think that the media has been stunted by the fact that -- i think people feel like they're supposed to be able to predict and tell you exactly what's going to happen and can't. >> it's part of the dna. i think it used to be easier to predict what was going to

happen. of course, american politics has been so tumultuous, in the last four years. it's ingrained, we have to predict, we have to predict. it's interesting. i've tweeted several times, nobody knows what's going to happen and that should be the starting point. and i think the media loves a narrative and the story line and they kind of get ahead of themselves. i was reading it is "new york times" this morning and they're talking about nevada. they said it's unusual to have this many candidates still competing this late in the race. i thought, we've had two caucuses and one open primary. we're not that far into this race. but there's such a desire to get ahead of the story and just let it happen. it's an amazing story. just let it happen. >> david, mother jones is quite good at getting scoops and figuring out the things that break the race and that change the race, but it is difficult to do the prognostication piece of it. from a journalist point of view, why is there that compulsion to feel you have to have narrative

and you have to know what the narrative is? >> i think there is an impulse to predict. i know when i was in new hampshire and talking to voters, voters were so freaked out. they wanted one thing, democratic voters, to beat trump and trying to figure out which candidate could beat trump. they were turning to reporters, who do you think? >> i get asked every day. >> they wanted that information. and i was saying, your guess at this point is as good as mine. there's so much that journalism can do. we can analyze the candidates, we can look at their past. we can even talk about what bernie's victory here in nevada means and what happens, you know, in terms of the process so people will understand. there's a lot out there. yes, i think there's a natural tendency as human beings to have a soap opera type story. who's up, who's down, who's on the outs, who's disappointing. that leads to when we watch tv, like what's going to be the

ending? there's a cliffhanger we spend all summer guessing who shot j.r. that dates me, but nevertheless -- >> i remember it, too. >> there's that impulse. i don't mind the predictions, it's a fun thing, but when it overwhelms the coverage -- people say elizabeth warren is out because -- >> she has the third most delegates. >> there are things like that that are more important to pay attention to and there are problems in the media that, i think, are bigger than the inclination to predict. >> i think that's true. eric, the other issue is one thing you can predict is the way the media tends to behave when an election begins. and the sanders campaign has been working the refs, of trying to berate the media into getting more positive coverage. that will work to a certain extent, but it is predictable that there will be deep dives on him that once he's seen as the front runner, hillary clinton

can tell you that people will do all kinds of strange things. i mean, clinton cash, which was a dumpster pile ended up in the "new york times." people are looking for dirt on you. so i think the sanders campaign is very super sensitive, but they better get ready. >>. >> yeah, they better get ready. the problem is when republicans get into the mix. clinton cash is an example. this is not a book about a hit job on hillary clinton. it was part of the republican smear campaign, "new york times" got involved. for the deep dive, whether it's sanders or whoever the nominee is, the problem is when republicans start feeding the mainstream media and the press starts accepting all that, whether it's the smear against biden with ukraine. that was a republican production that was mainstreamed by the

d.c. press. it wasn't depicted as an unprecedented smear campaign. it was depicted as, well, this is a both sides story. so, the fear -- the danger for any democratic nominee is when the mainstream press teams up with republican op-ed research and start legitimizing whatever the republicans are pushing. >> it's not just teaming up with republicans. the biggest problem of media coverage on 2016 is the leaks that russia -- >> using them. >> using them. it's hard not to cover what's being leaked but to miss the big story that this was a russian attack and that was by far the biggest -- after 2003 and the iraq war, that was the biggest media fail and had a tremendous impact on the outcome of 2016. we're moving into an entirely new replay of that.

>> just a quick point. the iraq war and russia coverage, key point, the media apologizing for the debacle of 2016. the d.c. press has not acknowledged and apologized for what happened in 2016, which is why we're seeing so many repeats. >> people are quite testy about it in the media. they're not admitting that russia served up the op-o research to take hillary clinton down and the media ended up -- that's one reason she got into problems. we need more show. can we get more show? stick around. we have a little more show. more "a.m. joy" live from las vegas. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance.

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it's disconcerting that the briefing you mentioned was a classified briefing in the house. that's one of the president's concerns, is that adam schiff's committee continues to leak selective information. >> you can't say it didn't happen and then say they leaked information. >> i am saying the same briefing the president gets on election security were able to outline we've done, measures we've worked with municipalities to secure results and the intelligence committee not giving us information they're trying to help re-elect -- >> i just want -- >> if it's sunday, it's denny, denny, denny. in this instance, vice president mike pence's chief of staff,

mark short, refuses to -- denny, den denny, denny, what does that mean? it's deny, deny, deny. i'm like, who's denny? basically, yeah the vice president's chief of staff making stuff up. t "the new york times" believes they briefed lawmakers last week -- this is when you get a surprise script -- attempting to interfere in our election to help donald trump win. back with me are jonathan capehart, tiffany cross, people who can read are back with me. basically what's -- i'm sorry. >> that's a low bar. >> low bar. low bar. >> joy, you're the hardest working woman. totally understandable. >> y'all, have no idea what happened in the break. there was a whole thing that happened in the break that i had to run -- y'all, i won't go into it.

robert o'brien, let's listen to him. this is him trying to say -- what you were hearing in the denny, denny, denny segment. the trump administration is actually trying to get you, america, to believe that russia -- oh, no, they're not helping trump, they're helping bernie. here's mr. o'brien. >> mr. o'brien, thank you for joining us this morning. how is russia interfering in the 2020 election? >> well, there are these reports that they want bernie sanders to get elected president. that's no surprise. he honeymooned in moscow. president trump has rebuilt the american military to an extent we haven't seen since ronald reagan. i don't think it's any surprise that russia or china, iran would want somebody other than president trump. >> okay. let me play one more piece. that is mr. o'brien, robert o'brien, saying, oh, no, no, no, you know, it definitely makes sense russia wants to help bernie. now he's asked whether or not he's been briefed on the

intelligence, that we know the house was briefed on that russia wants to help trump. this is cut three. >> one final time, you're flatly denying the intelligence community has analysis that russia is favoring president trump in the 2020 election? >> what i'm saying is i have not seen that analysis, george. no one's briefed me on it. including the leadership of the ic, so -- >> after the reports came out, you didn't ask to see this analysis? >> look, i -- eye bei've been we leaders of the intelligence community. they don't have it. if there are lower people at dni that gave this analysis to the house, i would like to see it, but i haven't seen it. >> jonathan, that is just a lie. >> yeah. >> they perpetrated that on sunday television. >> joy, that clip was astounding. the idea that the national security adviser would not have seen that report, would not know about it, would not after seeing the reports about it saying, where the hell is this report and let me see it if he hadn't,

indeed seen it, is ridiculous. also, the first clip that you showed of o'brien made me think of something that i always think when i see trump administration officials talking to the press, whether it's on fox or on "this week" or wherever, on our air, they're talking to an audience of one. it does not matter what they say, what question they are asked, they are talking to president trump. they are not talking to the american people. and that's how -- that's how it's explainable that the national security adviser would say what he said and think that he can get away with it. he's not supposed to be politicizing intelligence. he's not supposed to be politicizing america's national security. but in that clip you showed, he's saying things the boss wants to hear. that is why we are in such a dangerous place right now in this country.

>> if you want to understand the thorough and total corruption of the republican party, every republican i know clinging to be in the party, is disgusted by the thorough corruption of the party, to the point where they're all -- they're air marionettes for donald trump. here's chris christie, used to be a federal prosecutor, also saying -- let's not do that. let's go back to robert o'brien. this is cut one. this is robert o'brien. one more cut of him. this is him trying to deny what we all know, which is why the former dni, director of national security -- director of national intelligence was fired. mr. o'brien, cut one. >> that's not true. i was in that meeting. the president was not upset with admiral mcguire and would have liked him to stay in the government in a different role. he had to leave his acting position on march 11th. so, that's why he left. admiral mcguire is held in the highest regard.

i've never heard anyone criticize him, including the president. >> maria-teresa komar, it's laughably true. we have solid evidence to the con temporary. they go on these shows so regular people will actually still buy them as a credible political party and not part of a regime. this is ridiculous. they fired this man because they were told that russia is still helping trump and now they want to fool people. >> right. well, this is -- this is where we have to be very thoughtful when it comes to the work that the media does, is that by bringing them on to these networks, these programs and not pushing back constantly, it all of a sudden verifies what they're saying is true. that's why those individuals have to be ready to push back at every turn otherwise they take that clip and they pipe it into fox and say, look, it's legitimate. it's fine because all of a sudden everybody is broadcasting it. that is the alternative facts.

that's when people believe they're living in these two realities and we have to figure out how to stop that. this is the danger, is that the president has basically put politicized public servants across the board. whether we're talking about the department of justice, the secretary of state's office, the department of state. every single one. the more you politicize, you cannot have a neutral governing group of individuals that make sure our constitution, that our processes are respected. there is a level of corruption that takes place. if you ask any immigrant cab driver in new york city why they left, they left because their government was broken. why was it broken? because oftentimes there was an authoritarian regime that oftentimes said, you can only play by my rules and i'm going to corrupt every single system to work that way. it becomes incredibly costly, expensive for the pocketbooks and incredibly dangerous because that's when democracy starts to die. when people are trying to say,

what is slate on the democratic side versus donald trump? anybody. anybody on that stage actually believes in the function of government, they actually believe in the american people, they believe caging children is wrong. and for people to say, i'm going to vote either way, if it's bernie, i'm not going to vote for him and donald trump, then you are privileged. the day you cast that vote, you're actually saying what your values are. >> let's go back to our other conversation because i know you're working on a book on this subject, on black voters. this is an interesting thing. just take it back for a second. i want to play joe biden. he doesn't do a lot of interviews. this is joe biden on cbs and he's talking about why he's starting to lose support among black voters. this one is to you, tiffany. take a listen. >> our latest battleground tracker polling shows your lead with south carolina black voters is thinning out. in november you were at 54% support. it's now at 35%. that's a 19-point difference. >> it's also --

>> what's happening? >> what's happening is you have steyer spending tens of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars out campaigning there. and so i think a lot's happening in terms of the amount of money being spent by the billionaires to try to cut into the african-american vote. >> i'm curious you're thoughts on that, tiffany. i know we're headed to south carolina next week. what do you make of that? >> well, i think the vice president makes a good point about south carolina specifically. it is true that steyer has just made it rain all over south carolina and really done a lot of big media buys. he has secured, you know, some small endorsements from some of the state legislators there. it could create a path where he ciphers away some of that support from biden and you could see an opportunity where bernie sanders might come through and make some sort of impact there. however, i do have to say, though, i think black voters, as we said many times, overall --

no matter how we gate, we have a practical people. those excited about joe biden and think he's the only person who could defeat trump, i think there was some nervousness after seeing some of his debate performances, after seeing these gaffes. joe biden of 2020 is not joe biden of 2008. that's a fact. he's never had to be at the top of a ticket. he's never had to carry a national race on his own. when we've seen those flaws that come up around him, black voters, it's not that they don't like joe biden, it's not they don't hold him in high regard with nostalgia, they're saying, time out, we can't take any chances. we have a crazy dictator in the white house and we need a sure thing going into this battleground. they're questioning that, rightfully so. >> well, even with bloomberg, people think he's great until he gets ethered by elizabeth warren. and she drank his milkshake right on tv. people are like, wait a minute,

maybe he's not that great either. jonathan, theresa and tiffany are going to stick around because these wonderful people are going to tell you who won the week. is mealtime a struggle? introducing ore-ida potato pay. where ore-ida golden crinkles are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this... ...with this. when kids won't eat dinner, potato pay them to. ore-ida. win at mealtime.

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align, press and unzip. tide pods. keep them up. keep them closed. keep them safe. now, you know, we really hate to keep you waiting, but we don't have to wait anymore. i'm happy to let you know that right now it's finally time for who won the week. back with me, jonathan capehart, maria theresa kumar and tiffany cross. who won the week? >> all right, i'm going to really quick. my pick is definitely the first latina on the supreme court, justice sonia sotomayor. she issued a scathing opinion on what's basically a wealth tax for immigrants applying for a green card. of course the conservative court

ruled in favor of this. so-called conservatives make the courts their huge issue. that's something that i think the other side should take a note on. bravo to her for making this a huge issue. >> telling the truth. maria theresa kumar, who won the week? >> she did a fantastic job, justice sotomayor, hats off to tiffany. we keep talking voters showing up and flexing their muscle and they absolutely did that in the nevada caucus. this is the beginning of a tidal wave, they've woken up. >> jonathan capehart, can you beam that who won the week? >> i think i can, y'all sitting down? bernie sanders won the week. he was surging in the polls before the debate. he got out of the debate unscathed. he won the nevada caucuses, looks like pretty handily.

and so, you know, both the bloomberg and buttigieg campaigns are both warning if something doesn't happen by super tuesday, bernie's going to run away with the nomination. >> you're just trying to make your twitter mentions better. who won the week this week is going to be the watchmen fandom, i'm a member of it, the "watchmen" fandom, there's a move to bring back this show with jeremy irons, there's a chance they're coming back, best show i've ever seen on tv. it may be coming back, guys, we have hope. thank you guys very much. hope wins the week.

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that is our show for today. thanks so much for watching. "a.m. joy" will be back next saturday, 10:00 a.m. right here, same bat time, same bat channel. now alex witt is up with the latest. alex, would you believe i'm so cold right now. >> i can tell. >> i thought i was going to be balmy and warm. i'm in four layers. >> but stylish. i want to take issue with one

thing you. said "watchmen" won the week. really, best show ever get me i started watching "game of thrones" because of you. is it a one-two? >> it's a one-two. "game of thrones" was a phenomenal show except the final episode, it will make you mad. but "watchmen" is a better quality show. and it's a great show. i had to forgive damon lindelof who made "lost" which had the worst ending ever, and i forgave him because of how good "watchmen" is. >> go ahead and warm up, joy. welcome, everyone, to "weekends with alex witt." russia's plan to meddle in the election. the president and his people speaking out today. why it's raising new questions about what is actually the truth. >> but i have not been