baby, i can see your halo ♪ pray it won't fade away ♪ halo ♪ >> that was beyonce performing at the incredible memorial remembrance of kobe bryant and his daughter gianna and the others who perished in the helicopter crash. ♪ halo >> really moving remarks by his wife vanessa as well. good morning, everyone, and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday february 25th. along with joe, willie and me we have national correspondent for nbc news and msnbc and author of "the red and the blue" steve kornacki. good to have you onboard this morning. and tonight is debate night again. this time in charleston, south carolina. we'll talk about the dynamics at play and a reported new strategy for michael bloomberg as more old tapes come out against him. bernie sanders is the clear

front-runner with increased scrutiny, of course, especially for his continued praise of fidel castro. we'll show you ho you that is playing out on the campaign trail. plus, president trump continues his state visit to india. we expect him to hold a news conference at about a half hour and will go live to cnbc as well following yesterday's massive market drop on investor fears over the impact of the coronavirus. we will also talk about the verdict for harvey weinstein. we'll show you more from the incredibly emotional moments from yesterday's memorial service for kobe bryant and his daughter gianna including hearing, as i said, from his wife vanessa. >> such a moving service. >> incredible. >> beginning to end. >> stopped the whole day. >> yeah. and so many people, just froze and stopped the day and watched this. and, you know, willie, there were so many moving moments of that service. you just can't -- you can't put it down there, but i will tell you that vanessa talking about

kobe. >> hmm. >> the father. >> hmm. >> man. incredible. and gino following up by basically talking about kobe, the father, and basically telling everybody there. that's -- that's how you can be a great man, like kobe. is be a father like kobe. it was extraordinary, an extraordinary service about about extraordinary guy. >> yeah. vanessa's strength able to get up there and do that in that arena knowing millions were watching talking about kobe and their daughter gianna. saying, couldn't be one of them. had to be together. said, kobe, you take care of gigi in heaven and i'll take care of the kids here. if they didn't leave a lump in your throat i don't know what would. and moved by the sports side of it, michael jordan talking about

kobe bryant. that is kobe's hero. mike's jordan. wanted his approval and validation. to see michael jordan up on that stage crying himself in tears over a guy he called his little brother, kobe bryant. that was incredibly moving, because we know how much michael meant to kobe. >> yeah, yeah. it was such a moving service and, of course, we remember, also, the others. >> uh-huh. >> who were lost in that, that crash, and who were left behind. just one tragedy after another. >> yeah. and the same day vanessa filed suit against the aviation, the helicopter company. >> yep. >> all right. we'll talk more about that. ahead of tonight's debate in south carolina, though, and four days before the primary the latest nbc news marist poll shows joe biden with a nir arro lead over bernie sanders in that state. biden 23%, sanders, 26%.

six-point margin of error followed by tom steyer who'ses $20 million in ad spending powered him to 15% in the state. pete buttigieg now at 9%. elizabeth warren at 8%, amy klobuchar, 5%. >> all right. so we'll go through inside of the poll, but before we do that, steve kornacki looking at those numbers. for me the big question mark is tom steyer. he had big poll numbers in nevada, but never translated to votes. not sure if it's going to happen there. this, of course, came on the heels of a ppp poll a couple hours earlier showing joe biden with about a 15-point lead. what are you looking at when you look at these polls? >> yeah. look, this is supposedly the biden firewall state. how many times have we heard that over the last six months? seve margins the last six months bigger than four points but it's good news for him coming off the performance he's had in the first four states to be leading in a poll like this. the black vote, more than half

the electorate will be african-american on saturday. he who a 15-point advantage there over bernie sanders, but really what jumps out at me is half of this poll was taken before that debate last week. and half of this poll was taken after that debate last week. and in the pre-debate half of the poll, biden's lead over sanders was ten points. in the post-debate half, dead even. telling you the debates really can move numbers. not one of these big early voting states like in nevada where all votes were cast before the debate. this debate tonight can matter a lot. >> wow. >> yeah. so let's move on and look at -- go ahead. >> among voters in, black voters in south carolina, biden has 35%. sanders, 20%. steyer, 19% and warren 7%. no one else got above 4%. >> willie, this really is, again -- this is why you have mayor pete, who did so well in the first few states now, of

course, struggling. he's going to be struggling over the next several days to show that he can be viable nationally, because he just still is not able to get votes among many black south carolinians and black democrats. same with elizabeth warren. down at i -- what is she? 7%. >> yep. >> so right now it is bernie and biden and steyer who are doing pretty well with the black vote. >> the argument for pete buttigieg way back when was, if he wins does well in iowa, in new hampshire, the pragmatic voters in south carolina will take another look at him and he'll do better. well, he did win in iowa in terms of pledged delegates and still flatlining among african-american voters. obviously, a huge problem for himman him. >> and the progressive group, all clumped together not so long ago with warren and buttigieg,

and sanders, but sanders actually has seen his support among black voters slowly rise up. >> that's -- yeah. >> and the making all the difference in the world right now. >> that's the interest thing. willie mentions pete buttigieg. nevada has a significant black population. one in ten votes in the caucuses were african-americans. buttigieg got 2%. months of talk about iowa and new hampshire rolling it into broader support, got 2% in the first test of it. sanders is interesting. think back four years ago at this time. won new hampshire narrowly lost iowa and the question for sanders four years ago was, could he attract significant african-american support against hillary clinton? make it a game in south carolina? make is a game with black voters throughout the south in particular? south carolina was the test of that four years ago, and among black voters, it was hillary clinton 86% to 14%. lost the black vote by 72 points four years ago and is down in this one by 15, but an

opportunity for him to potentially with a good debate, this poll, taken before that result from nevada. if there is some kind of bandwagon effect comes from him winning nevada he has a chance to potentially draw, even with black vote almost what he did in nevada. >> senator bernie sanders is facing backlash following his remarks during a "60 minutes" interview where he renewed his past praise for former leader of cube da, fidel castro. msnbc addressed how this might affect the vermont independence run for the presidency and sanders himself defended his remarks during a cnn town hall last night. >> senator sanders doesn't come to his positions on politics, this comes from a place of conviction and when you look at what he said for decades is you have somebody in fidel castro a human rights abuser and authoritarian. you heard him say in the clip. nevertheless, you can also

acknowledge good things may have been happening in cuban society. what ends up happening people try to throw political barbs at bernie sanders and translated to the american public a person of honesty and conviction who doesn't play politics.truly wha believes. i don't see problems with it. >> when fidel castro first came to power. when? '59? >> '59-60. >> okay's he initiated a major literacy program. a lot of folks in cuba at that point who were illiterate. he formed a literacy brigade. you may read that. went out and helped people learn to read and write. you know what? i think teaching people to read and write is a good thing. >> okay. >> i don't even know what to say, willie. >> why? >> because -- because -- because he said -- he has this with every -- every dictatorial regime.

finds something he likes. >> who does that remind you of? >> he had a literacy regime, but he also had a regime who tortured catholics, tortured people who worshipped god in a way he didn't like, tortured students that had newspapers. kept people locked up or years. killed people. i mean, and then when bernie talks about the soviet union, they had wonderful chandeliers. did you see they had wonderful chandeliers in their subways. this is not an argument. same thing with the sandinistans going down to nicaragua talking about the great progress they're making instead of talking about the torturing, instead of talking about -- has there been a communist regime that bernie sanders visited that he didn't find something appealing about? you cannot talk about chandeliers in a subway when you're talking about a regime that killed 30 million, 40

million of its own people, either through forced famines or through torture or through show trials. you cannot talk about fidel castro's literacy programs, you just can't! not in american politics, and shouldn't be able to without talking about the long laundry list of evils committed by fidel castro against his own people over decades. that is, yes it is, wait for it. >> uh-huh. >> that's like saying mussolini had the trains running. have you seen the trains? i'm telling you, i'm sitting there by the trains, and it's 2 until 9:00. what do i see for my 9:00 train? the train's coming up here while people are hooked up on meat hooks lined up behind the train. you can't do it. the fact, i understand, we all say crazy things. it was the '70s and '80s, right? and the '90s. but he's defending this.

>> doubling down. >> and doubling down,s in 2020. that ain't -- that ain't cool. not just with former republicans. that ain't cool with south carolina voters. that ain't cool with democrats. >> ain't cool with democrats in florida and they've made it very clear over the last couple of days. >> florida -- i will say this. we never know what's going to happen. i will tell you this, as somebody who knows a little about florida politics, bernie sanders will get wiped 0 ut in south florida, which means, he will never -- like, i'm talking about in the general election, don't know how he'll do in the primary there. kiss florida good-bye. and, yeah. you have -- >> democratic congresswoman from florida writes, at the first south american immigrant who proudly represents thousands of cubans i find bernie sanders statements unacceptable. donna shalala echoing that. confronted with it last night in

a town hall on cnn and didn't try to couch it at all's he repeated it saying the literacy program was good. his campaign manager said and he's right, bernie sanders is consistent on this. he lived it in the '70s, in the '80s, in the '90s. basically saying he's not going to lie about the way he feel. he's not a politician and voters have to make up their minds whether that consistency is a good thing or the fact you're praising dictators is disqualifying. that's up to the voters. >> i'm not sure how it will come out in the crosstabs here but i don't think ortega, castro a and -- heck, brezhnev will fare very well. >> we talked the last year or so about bernie sanders and his poll numbers. we keep saying there is a profound age divide. talking about folks who are under 45 years old, particularly under 30 years old. saw it in nevada. he got 66% in nevada under 30

years old. when you go to the other end of the age spectrum, folks who remember daniel ortega, the sandinistas, battles of the 1980s, remember democrats in the 1970s, folks like george mcgovern, soft on communism. the charge out there in american politics, a difficult position for politicians like mcgovern in the '70s. folks who remember that and see that in bernie sanders, what you just showed are the folks no the warming up to him consistently in the polls. people who don't have the much firsthand knowledge of him in the '70s, '80s and '60s, bernie sanders is doing very well with. >> and george mcgovern a war hero and a guy that didn't run around talking about what he thought was most intriguing about the soviet system and how they were all very content. bernie said they were content. i forget what the exact word

was, but a level of contentment there among soviet citizens saying bernie sanders. the only person who ever visited the soviet union from the west and came back and said that. it's astounding. >> this moment is why the white house is licking its chops about bernie sanders as "an opponent. more than medicare for all. gets to the heart what president trump wants to talk about. patriotism. do you love this country? he can go out on the stump and say this is castro's guy, stalin's guy, whatever. go down the list, daniel ortega's guy, he wants to have that conversation. >> desperately. >> and that's why donald trump goes out and says, don't let them steal it from you bernie. congratulations on your big win in nevada. now, donald trump doesn't have much to stand on in terms of awe authoritarian, but this is the conversation donald trump is happy to have. >> sanders good pivoting that. the question, why as a candidate do you want to take that on? i don't understand that. why do you want to continues to

praise fidel castro? a murderous thug? why do you -- why can't you just come out and say, no. it's terrible. >> it's strange. let's bring in nbc news national political reporter josh letterman from charleston, south carolina. and taking a look at how this is playing on the trail. josh? >> comrade, what do you got? >> yeah. if the last debate was all about mike bloomberg, this debate is certainly going to be about bernie sanders. the candidates here as they've been gearing up for the debate taking place just behind me this evening have not been shy about their intention to go hard after mike bloomberg. you had pete buttigieg in the last couple of days really criticizing sanders pretty sharply on a whole hosts of issues including this issue with fidel castro saying he doesn't want to be in the position of defending the democratic nominee if sanders is the democratic nominee, praising someone like fidel castro. bloomberg campaign officials we've been speaking with say

he's got a task to do with sanders as well. obviously bloomberg first of all has to not have the a disastrous debate performance like last time, but also saying, look, could be one of last opportunities fs opportunities, if not the last to thwart sanders momentum before amassing a delegate lead that could be insurmountable. bloomberg tonight in his debate plans to make the argument that any of these candidates if they're not willing and do not have the courage to stand up to sanders tonight do not deserve to be the nominee. but obviously, a lot of questions about whether bloomberg will be able to make that case effectively given how ineffective he was in the last debate. basically taken himself off of the campaign trail for the last 48 hours hunkered down with advisers trying to get in some last-minute prep. he had a cnn town hall, supposed to do last night and postponed that until tomorrow night to make sure he had a little more time to prepare. we'll have to see whether or not he's able to deliver a debate performance that frankly he

never really was able to deliver with much punch even when he was running for mayor of new york. >> nbc's josh letterman, thank you very much. >> so one thing. let's just help right now -- thank you so much, josh. help in debate prep. okay? we're going to do what's called "the pivot." >> debate prep 101. >> bernie sanders pivoted. attacked him on castro, he talked about trump, and kim jong-un. so willie attacks me. you are horrible. you dress horribly. you're fat. you're ugly, and i take that, and then i turn to steve kornacki, and i go, kornacki, you can't control your age. you're always screaming at the top of your lungs. you are not the type of person to lead our polling unit anymore. that's what he's got to do, because there's more bad stuff coming bloomberg's way. >> i know. >> and the thing is, i know he's worth $55 billion, $60 billion but you got to go, hey, boss,

remember a couple years when you said you weren't proud to endorse barack obama? and that you would defend the banks? show that in a little bit. that's coming. and elizabeth warren's going to yell it at him. and bernie's going to yell it at him. and, like, the heavens are going to open up and yell it at him, and he better have a response. but he was just so ill equipped to pivot. last time. >> here's the question i have with bloomberg, too. does what you're describing come tonight or is that now postponed because of what josh just described? the rest of the field recognizing their immediate objective make sure bernie sanders doesn't win south carolina on saturday and figure it out from there. we talk about biden this week and biden leading in polls and say biden were to have a good showing tonight while everybody else gangs up on sanders. a big "if," say it happens. biden gets a win looking for in

south carolina a new variable enders the list next week and that's bloomberg. bloomberg recoups momentum, he'll spend the next week dropping $100 million on the air waves. >> exactly right. >> biden gets the win saturday and bloomberg gets the win suddenly. >> a duel threat. >> elizabeth warren has not attacked bernie. >> right. >> she has just stayed away from bernie. i don't think that's going to change tonight. i think what she's going to probably do is continue going after bloomberg. and the so, yeah. bloomberg -- >> signaled that already. going to hit him on that comment you referenceds from 2016 he told a group of wall street bankers i'm going to defend the banks. ali also, right after nevada, bernie sanders has a resounding win, comes out, goes after -- mike bloomberg. clearly, mike bloomberg is in her sights making short joke, trumpian short jokes. >> faking m-- making fun, a

trumpian short joke. >> can you imagine somebody made a joke about her appearance in some way? i mean -- people would go crazy and say it's sexist, misogynistic and here we are all over again where women get treated differently. it's -- the double standard is like piercingly sharp here. >> did you hear anybody talk about her making fun of a man's appearance? that's interesting. >> take notes. that happened. because the freakout will only happen if a woman is described in any way about how she looks. >> the freakout's happened. you can't seeven say what place elizabeth warren is in without people calling you a misogynist. you're saying amy klobuchar and warren are supposed gs--. i didn't say that. i said some are asking that question, right? >> because the field -- >> then misquoted. and then also i said the same day, what's tom steyer doing

here? he has not right to be here. needs to go home. very interesting nobody said that i was a sexist pig towards poor tom steyer. so it's crazy. i mean, you don't really help your cause saying that women should be treated the same with men if you're not willing to allow women to be treated same as men when things are going bad. >> there you go. >> when things are going good for like a year said how great elizabeth warren was. >> had an amazing campaign. fun to watch. >> get a tape and we'll show you. five hours saying how great she is. >> i love her. >> but i'll take sexist pig for $100. oh, unbelievable! yeah. >> i seem to remember six months ago we were criticized for propping up elizabeth warren's campaign, because she was performing well on the trail. she finished fourth in the last two races. that's a statement of fact. >> yeah. and fourth in one of the races she finished in, was, like, the state we were all saying she was go to win! if you're from massachusetts,

and you finished fourth, and a man finished fourth, paul tsongas, he should get out of the race and go home. >> the worst showing ever in a new hampshire candidate. >> you are such -- a -- sexist! >> i was standing 20 feet from september last year, i remember, watching her take lead in polls in iowa. watch her move up nationally. i thought there was a scenario right there where elizabeth warren wins iowa, rolling through new hampshire and gets the nomination's doesn't look like it's on that trajectory. she's not the first candidate to finish fourth in new hampshire, distant and what's her future as a candidate? may be bleak now. happened to male candidates for decades and maybe a sign of progress it starts to happen to a female. >> only if you can actually tell the truth about where they are politically without being called sexist. here's -- do you have the clip? this is just a short version.

we've got like a 48-minute version we'll put online. some of the horrible things we've said about elizabeth warren over the past year. >> the republican dream that elizabeth warren runs for president and that's who they want because they think they can beat her is as stupid add hillary clinton wanting donald trump. elizabeth warren can evolve. she's done a lot in a short amount of time, and i think she could be a nightmare for republicans. >> elizabeth warren doing what we all thought she would do at the beginning and that is cut into bernie sanders' massive support in the democratic party. >> elizabeth warren, she is up five points to 15%. something's happening there. >> let's talk about what we're seeing on our tv screens daily, and that is elizabeth warren in front of crowds of 4,000, 6,000, 10,000, 15,000. that is politically a leading indicator of things to come. >> elizabeth warren's charge is

undeniable. >> elizabeth warren is drawing these crowds, talking about policy. >> right. >> she's a professor and she's drawing these sort of crowds. quite an achievement, i mean i can't think of one wrong move she's made along the way. >> well, you can't take your eyes off of elizabeth warren. i know a lot of people want to right now. but she has got a strong ground game in iowa. >> her on the ground operation is stellar. >> elizabeth warren has the best ground game in the first two states. she's done everything right, you know, for about six, eight, nine months of this campaign. always said did all the blocking and tackling right. why is elizabeth warren punished for talking about the outlines of her plan and how much it's going to cost voters, while bernie sanders doesn't. >> it has been a, you know, one bad poll result after another. >> if i'm elizabeth warren, i -- i just sitting there wondering,

what happened? who pulled the floor out from underneath me? she ran, again, for six to nine months, ran a great campaign. all the blocking and tackling. she was doing it right. she moved up slowly in the polls. a perfect build. she got in first place for a couple of days, and some of these national polls, and has been falling ever since. >> wow. joe, you are such a -- >> i know. >> what's the word? >> to say she's done everything right for the campaign, and mika, what about you saying, i can't think of one thing that she's done wrong. >> that's "snl" worthy. by the way, i think she had an incredible campaign. >> that's "hey jude" and in a god of the vida" coming to the internet soon. >> why is it when elizabeth warren and bernie sanders is the same idea about medicare for all did her presentation of the details of that cost her so

greatly, if you believe that's the point she started to slide, and had hasn't cost bernie sanders? an obvious question about sexism there. >> she's actually given numbers at some point, and that was -- that was bad. >> and steve, i will, and i've said this before, too. because she's done everything right. >> sexist. >> y'all, duh! yeah, you're stupid. you really are dumb if you're looking at -- at us looking at results and you're saying that it's sexist that we're saying she's in fourth place and she's underperforming. you're not watching the show for, like, a year, which actually your mental health is probably much better than the rest of ours so i commend you for that. but i will say, and i have said it 1,000 times. the great mystery of this campaign is why elizabeth warren's numbers went down when she actually told the truth how much these programs were going to cost and bernie still keeps -- i'm sorry, if not

lying, he's, like, just like skating. he's getting away with, oh, i don't know. hey, i don't know. who -- hey, who knows, we'll talk about it. >> might be this. it's -- it's really, that sends a message, be as cynical as is humanly possible if you want to get elected president of the united states. the terrible. >> and between 2016 and now, tight assume what voters do and don't respond to maybe we ought to rethink it. one gets to the idea if running for president got to pent out detailed bulky policy papers. you're going to be judged on merits of those. not necessarily the case. maybe we need to recognize that. the other thing on warren i noticed, a contrast in a couple of debates in the summer early fall on the medicare for all question. remember, asked, will taxes go up? she spent a few debates dancing around that question and pointedly refusing to give a yes/no answer. one topic they went to sanders

he said, yes, taxes will go up but you'll get a better deal out of it. i think in that contrast there might have been something there that sanders answer to people saw as more direct. >> more authentic. okay. so much big news to cover. the dow jones industrial plunged more than 1,000 points yesterday as the global panic over the coronavirus has -- >> do we have trump tweet on that. >> yeah. finally set in a "wall street journal" -- >> and if the dow went down 1,000 -- >> a tweet for everything. >> the dow experienced its third worst single day in history monday dropping 6.5%. s&p dropped 3.4% and nasdaq dropped 3.7%. the swing in the markets comes as cases of the coronavirus outside of mainland china spread with south korea, italy and iran seeing the worst of it. currently over 80,000 cases and over 2,600 deaths have been

reported globally. bring in c nbc's dominic chu. how are markets doing following yesterday's 1,000-point drop on the dow? >> yeah. it was bad. it was a huge move yesterday and today what markets are trying to do is recover just a little bit. what we have right now is a dow that would open up by just around 50 to 100 points. that's nothing compared to the 1,000-plus you mentioned we dropped yesterday but still something. the reason why traders are a little more cautious this morning is because over the course of the past 10-plus years, a lot of folks noticed that on big down days like yesterday, the markets do tend to try to bounce back in the day following, especially when those happen on a monday. the reason why today is going to be a little curious is because there was such damage done yesterday to a variety of different companies. especially companies that have a lot of business tied to china. supply concerns. you're talking about even athletic apparel companies like nike or adidas. travel and leisure companies that fly there. united airlines.

a big hit for them and cruise line operator, a big hit as well. one issue, whether or not a sign this containment is happening. that will provide any kind of indication we could see markets stabilize. by the way, a couple drugmakers are in focus. maderna and digilead. working on vaccines or treatment for a coronavirus. maderna shares higher this morning because the "wall street journal report"ed they submitted a vaccine test to u.s. regulators to see if it's an effective way of treating the coronavirus. lots of big story lines. 0 to tie it to politics, listening to your discussion about elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. the amount of money market value that the global stock market lost yesterday just in one day was $1.7 trillion. now, to put that in perspective, that is what bernie sanders says or claims his childcare and

pre-k education for all americans would cost for the next decade. an idea just how big the damage was on wall street just yesterday alone, guys. >> let me ask you, domm. have the chinese leaders, has the chinese leadership gotten to a point now where they're open enough about the situation to -- to have some confidence in companies who are trying to figure out whether to invest or not. obviously, they were slow out of the gate on this. and that obviously made a lot of ceos nervous. do ceos around the world have a feeling at this point china's going to be straight with them giving assessment on the coronavirus and they're doing everything they can do? >> the words "china" and "open" do not always come in the same

sentence. a lot of experts say the chinese government from a national, big country level, have been doing a fairly effective job trying to contain this. the issue is whether or not that mandate from the federal government, the national government in china, to local governments in the province and everyplace else can get the virus contained. building pop-up hospitals and everything else. remember, ceos are trying to get things up and running again. heard from apple in the last 24 hours that they've now opened up more than half of the stores that they have closed down during the course of the coronavirus outbreak, albeit some with lowered kind of operating hours. >> uh-huh. >> with regard to companies trying to get back online the issue is how quickly they can do it. the economic impact stay closed longer the whole economy slows down. the reads tln is so much uncertainty now. mastercard just yesterday, guys, said they could see their whole

outlook shuttered agent because of the coronavirus outbreak in 20920 2020. not just ceos. people at the center of the whole thing but business is for sure slowing down in china. >> cnbc's dominic chu, thank you very much. >> and a tweet after donald trump tweeted, nothing to worry about. he said, when donald trump tells you there's nothing to worry about, there's something to worry about. >> absolutely. still ahead on "morning joe," bernie sanders for many years has been in the public eye. there's also michael bloomberg. when he wasn't running for president are coming back in a major way. we have that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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all right. after multiple hours of deliberation following a six-week trial in new york city former hollywood producer harvey

weinstein has been found guilty of first-degree criminal sexual act and third-degree rape capping a landmark trial and delivering a victory to the #metoo movement. the jury, however, acquitted him of first-degree rape and predatory sexual assault. in all more than 80 women accused weinstein of sexual assault and harassment going back decades. now the 67-year-old faces between 5 and 25 years in prison on the criminal sexual act charge and up to 4 years for third-degree rape. weinstein who showed no emotion as the verdict was read pleaded not guilty in the case and continues to deny all allegations of non-consensual sex. joining us now "new york times" investigative reporter megan tuohy co-author of the book "she said" breaking the sexual harassment story that helped ignite a movement.

also with us, msnbc news legal analyst dannycevallos. >> and i go back to the harassment and the -- >> pressure. >> what? israeli -- investigators. >> spies. >> and spies. all of that happening, and i thought for you and for the entire investigative unit, this has been quite a journey. >> it certainly has, and i think it's been not just a journey for us as journalists but for just the broader #metoo movement. right? this really showed that accountability could stretch from the court of public opinion to the court of criminal law. >> yeah. >> yeah. so -- so weinstein. danny, what does he face? what is he likely facing? >> did he ever make it to rikers? i heard he went to the hospital. you get the feeling he's -- some people are very -- some people think he might be kind of

putting on his own produced show, in terms of his health. >> rikers has a medical facility but not certain that's exactly where he was taken. you asked about his exposure. in new york, the sentencing guidelines call for the highest count. 5 to 25 years. that's paradoxically enough for the criminal sexual assault. not the third-degree rape. the third-degree rape sentencing guidelines 1.5 to 4 years, those could be consecutives li s line end to end and the total could be 29 years if the judge wanted to impose the absolute statutory max. i caution folks. be prepared. harvey weinstein is a first-time offender and generally in the system you're entitled to something on the lower end of the sentencing guidelines whenever you're a first-time offender, but harvey, beware. when he heads to california, if he gets convicted in california, he will then be someone with a criminal record and you're going to see some higher sentences than the first time. >> this isn't over. have you reached out to any of

the accusers that you've been talking to over time? >> yes. >> tell me what they've been saying. >> right. within hours of the verdict being delivered we were on the phone to women who have come forward with allegations against him, and many of them described it as being hugely emotional. that it actually took a moment for it to sink in that there were, i talked to one woman who talked ten minutes she was basically shaking before the dam broke, and all of the tears just finally started to come out. you know, this is a hugely symbolic case. >> yes. >> this was a ricsky case from the beginning and pushed boundaries of sex crimes prosecutions. >> explain that. we talked about this before. the danger that harvey would get off of these charges, and then would come out of the courtroom going, hey. see? told you. all nonsense. you said this was a really risky gambit by the prosecutors. why? >> because the two women at the center of the criminal charges acknowledge having consensual sex with harvey after being

victimized by him, having friendly communication with him after the fact. in general prosecutors never bring those types of sex crimes, too messy could win convictions but really went, pushed the envelope and with this conviction may be reshaping public belief about which victims deserve their day in court. >> and convicted in new york. not the end. just the next chapter because charged also in the state of california with a couple of imcrews for alleged rape in 2013. so where does this go now for him? he goes to rikers island. was at bellevue hospital last night, with reported chest pains. will go to rikers. what happens from there to him? >> two separate sovereigns. new york and california. harvey weinstein has a constitutional right to be present for his criminal trial in california. logistically, these things don't run very smoothly. i've had clients get caught up in cross country transportation by corrections and it doesn't always run as efficiently as you might hope, but they will have to transport him and reach some

agreement for new york to give him up to go cross country and appear in court in l.a. this may be a bit of theater for someone like harvey weinstein but he will be entitled to appear in court in front of the jury in california without the handcuffs and in a suit, in civilian clothes realistically who in the country will be left who doesn't know that he's incarcerated whether on the jury or out in the public? yes. harvey weinstein will make a personal appearance in california to stand trial for those charges. >> whew. this is absolutely incredible. i think sy vance put it best, where what happened here yesterday really sort of, i think, brought the whole concept of sexual assault and rape into the 20th century, brought it to the point where it is rain when it's rape. sexual assault when it's sexual assault as he said and, yes, it comes in many different types of relationships. it could be someone you don't know or someone you know very well, and in this case, harvey

weinstein was so powerful that i think women, many of them, especially coming from nowhere trying to start their careers, felt very over powered by him, and it was complicated. >> that's absolutely right. listen, for decades harvey weinstein was able to conceal and silence women who had allegations of sexual misconduct against him. for him to have to sit in that over the course of those weeks and listen to woman after woman ultimately six women testified against him. for him to have to sit there and listen to that. >> how incredible. >> at instructions of his lawyers not be able to take the stand and even tell his side of the story was just -- to see this verdict crash down on him, i'm not surprised he was hospitalized for chest pains. >> thank you both. we'll be following this. there is more to come. still ahead, a top homeland security official creates confusion and questions about how prepared u.s. officials really are after asking twitter

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joining us now msnbc contributor mike barnicle is hoare and former assistant united states attorney in the southern district of new york mimi rocah. a distinguished fellow in cr criminal justice at pace school of law and a candidate for district attorney of westchester county. mimi, talk to you about the "new york times" report that tensions between the justice department and white house have been sim erg since at least last summer leading up to the boiling point revolving around the sentencing of president trump's ally roger stone. the ties began to break when the doj's investigation of andrew mccabe began to fall apart. washington, d.c.'s former top

prosecutor jesse liu appointed by trump to lead the office in 2017 pressed the mccabe case even after one team of prosecutors concluded that they could not win a conviction. sources close to the matter said that after a second team was brought in and also failed to deliver a grand jury indictment, liu's relationship with attorney general william barr grew strained. >> it's unbelievable. >> liu's eventual departure this year made way for timothy shea who had previously worked under a.g. barr. it was shea who pushed for a more lenient sentence of roger stone, that sparked the recent onslaught of prosecutor defections from the department. >> mimi -- >> where do we begin? >> -- it's really, it really is just -- it -- remarkable that you have somebody that the president of the united states is politically targeting, put a team of prosecutor on there who say we can't get a prosecution

in this case, and then the president's a.g., his roy cohn, but another set of prosecutors on there with a trump attorney leading the charge saying, no, no. we can't prosecute this guy. nothing's going to come of it. and then barr is angry at the second set of prosecutors, because he's not interested in justice. he just wants a political head to take back to the president of the united states. this is -- i've never heard of anything remotely like this in the justice department. >> nor have i, and i was there for 16.5 years and i know people who served before that, and what's really remarkable here, the point i think that's worth highlighting is, the career prosecutors, the ones who serve whether it's a democrat or republican president, whatever the administration, the people that are trying to just look at

the fact, look at the law and serve the department of justice and the cause of justice, they're the ones who made the apolitical decision that mccabe should not be prosecuted in respect was was no "there" there for a criminal case. the political appointee, jesse liu, sounds like she did -- i don't want to use the word pressure, but she certainly wanted them to be aggressive and look at it again, because she was feeling pressure, but then she did the right thing and said, no. said no to barr. what happened, though, she was basically punished for that, it seems. i mean, i'm reading what everybody else is reading but it looks like she was then moved out and the person that was put in to replace her in the stone case then did not do the same thing. he did not stand up to barr. so, you know, the line of defense here against political intrusion in the department of justice is the political appointees. it's the u.s. attorneys, and if

they don't do their job and stand up to political interference, there's no line of defense. the career prosecutors cannot be the ones to do it. so that's where we're seeing the system as we've known it through different parties and different political administrations fail now, is the political appointees not standing up to political intrusion in the u.s. attorneys offices. >> mimi, in the mccabe grand jury. let's go back and revisit that. that grand jury, my understanding, it sat for some months listening to testimony against andrew mccabe and whether they refused to indict or not to me is unclear. i don't know whether you have more specific information about that, but that same grand jury was brought back again to look again at mccabe several months after it reconvened again, and still no indictment. what does that do to the confidence of the assistant u.s. attorneys in terms of thinking,

hey, this is not on the level, being asked to do something the grand jury does not want us to do? >> depends on facts that we don't have complete information about, as you said. i mean, the whole scenario as you laid it out looks suspicious. i mean, there's really no other word for it, because there was a grand jury, and then there was a long gap in time, and then the grand jury was called back for i believe only one day. >> right. >> usually that means that you're trying to take a vote. i mean, you're not, you know -- if there was new evidence presented to the grand jury after some period of time, new evidence that they had received, then there would be nothing wrong with that. that happens often. but here there was a long period of time. it's hard to believe there was new evidence after that period of time in a case that had been going on for so long in investigation. so it seems much more, you know, circumstantially what they were trying to do get a vote at that time and didn't get one. meaning, they didn't get an

indictment returned. so, look. if the prosecutors were made to go back more than once and try to seek an indictment that this grand jury did not want to return an indictment on, that's wrong. it's, you know -- and i'm sure it was uncomfortable for the prosecutors. >> so mimi, quickly before i let you go, ask you about the harvey weinstein verdict yesterday. found guilty of rape in the third degree. not convicted on two more serious charges that could have brought him life in prison. what's your reaction to the verdicts there? >> my reaction is, this is a victory for the survivors. including the survivor whose account, no guilty conviction on. because overall, what the jury did here is, you know what juries often do, which is they do some some kind of compromise verdict. they did not find guilt on the oldest count, in terms of time, but that doesn't mean they didn't believe her. and, really, this is just such a

resounding statement of a jury believing victims, survivors, in a case where it was a hard case to bring, because there was some -- this is modern day rape. this is not the old, you know, rape in a dark alley with a stranger where consent is much less of a question. here you have people who have relationships both before and afterwards with the predator. so it -- it's incumbent on the prosecutors to explain to juries why and how that is that that doesn't negate the idea that there was no consent, even if you have some kind of relationship before and/or after the assault. i think this is a huge victory and will encourage other survivors to come forward who might have been hesitant before because they did not think they would be believed. >> absolutely. mimi rocah, thank you so much.

>> and quick breaking news, mike. hosni mubarak passed away. former egyptian ruler for about 30 years or so. he followed anwar sadat when sadat was assassinated obviously. your father worked with sadat and biegagbagin. arrested in 2011 with the -- the spring uprising, eventually was released, but he, of course -- he pursued what the "wall street journal" called a dogmatic pursuit of stability, not only inside of his home country but also across the middle east, and u.s. presidents liked working with him considered him a close

ally because for 30 years, certainly since the camp david accords, there have been no ground wars in the middle east. >> and you look at egypt today and we don't talk about it much but you talk to people like richard haass. he will tell you that underlying the stability of the military dictatorship that runs egypt today, it's still one of the most unstable volatile countries in the middle east. what happened with hosni mubarak, arrested and deposed, the beginning, the colonels, of unrest in the middle east in egypt right there and it continues. morsey took over for about a year, and -- >> muslim brotherhood. >> muslim brotherhood, and for several reasons. first of all, one, he never garined the trust of the military leaders, but also extraordinary incompetence led to him being pushedals asigh foe s -- aside for cece.

no doubt, ceci is running egypt much like mubarak ran egypt and there is underlying tension there as there is throughout large swaths of the middle east. >> mubarak, no way around it, he was a fierce and feared dictator, but he was our dictator. >> that was the attitude among presidents. again, he was a partner at least for peace with the israelis in his efforts to stop, again, in every president, democratic and republican president alike, in their efforts, of course, to stop the sort of ground wars that you saw in '67 and '73 across the middle east. >> we've hit the top of the hour. following breaking news. former egyptian leader hosni mubarak passed away, age 91. a lot to cover today. massive amount of breaking news. joining us from charleston, south carolina, chairman of priorities usa, guy cecil, and

msnbc's national affairs analyst co-host of showtime's "the circus" and john heilemann joins us. reporter for the "washington post" eugene scott and former aide to the george w. bush without and state departments elyse jordan. >> a confession to make. i grew up, as democrat and went republican -- >> just don't. >> so i don't really understand -- i'm like -- i'm like eismice man, cave man -- i like cave man lawyer. cave main independent. i don't understand the strange ways of you democrats and i'm curious. if a candidate, a major -- let's say a major candidate. a candidate that were, i don't know, leading the democratic primary. if when talking about cuba he's

still in 2020, fixated on fidel castro's run for literacy programs, and talking about the soviet union. seemed fixated not on the 35 -- >> this is a dell. not trump. >> 40 million people the soviets killed, but instead the wonderful chandeliers hanging up in subways and also such a contentment among the soviet people. >> see, i have never really heard that from anybody who ever came back from the soviet union. and then also spoke eloquently about the one person -- i can't even say it -- of the sandinista regime. see? again, i guess i'm still thinking like a republican, guys. so could you help explain to me, like, how this helps somebody in a democratic primary? >> what's the value? >> how does this help? picking some of the most murderous regimes in the history of our planet? >> that's what you call an opinion in the form of a

question, i think. >> look, it might have been slightly leading, guy. just slightly. >> just slightly. as you know, i'm from miami. i was born and raised hearing the stories of, firsthand stories, of cubans that emigrated to the united states to escape a murderous tyrant, and i don't think there's any excusing it. i don't think that's what senator sanders was trying to do. i hope as we go forward he'll clarify the comments. >> no! >> there's so much attention understandably on the democratic primary. also we have a president of the united states, let's not forget, that essentially congratulated the north korean leader for murdering his uncle, who repeatedly paves the way for vladimir putin. >> right. but what you call a pivot. >> congratulates a chinese -- >> that's a pivot. >> good job. mike bloomberg could learn from you. >> trying to explain to mike bloomberg how to pivot like that. that was a very good pivot,

but -- >> i said, he clarifies? >> but had a chance last night on cnn town hall meeting, and this is what he said. >> this is his clarification. >> when fidel castro first came to power which was when? '59? sound right? >> '59-60. >> okay. he initiated a major literacy program. a lot of folks in cuba at that point who were illiterate and formed a literacy brig grade. you may brigade. teaching people to read and write is a good thing. >> okay. you torture them, you kill 'em, but still, you're teaching in em to read and write. >> definitely in need of a clarification. >> john heilemann reminds me of a wonderful political book i once read called "double down." he doubled down on praising fidel castro last night. >> he did.

he did. a little bit inexplicably. i think you played earlier the video of shakir, his campaign manager. no doubt sanders thinks a political asset especially with young voters, a huge part of his coalition, he's authentic and the rest of the candidates are full of it, tell you what you want to hear, willing to shift, pivot,triangulate and that is the authentic bernie sanders. the one you heard with chris cuomo. how twha how well that will play in this state, joe, as you earlier remarked today, this is not the democratic electorate of iowa and nevada. this is the democratic electorate of south carolina, which has always been more conservative. people have a hard time getting this. because overwhelmingly

african-american, people assume overremmingly -- it's a very moderate electorate down here on the white part and on the black part of the electorate. whether those comments by senator sanders, which everybody now belatedly in the campaign on the democratic side have woken up and are like, hey, hey! should have seen this a week ago. maybe two weeks ago. now it's all of a sudden, hey, bernie sanders is about to run away with this nomination and now training their fire on him. the people of south carolina will hear about the fidel castro and all the other things about bernie sanders, his record that are pragmatic, it at the debate tonight and in the coming days. >> so does he keep doubling down? >> doing it 40 years and heilemann out there covering this campaign with his camera crews, and i think, john, you would attest to the fact that bernie sanders on his feet is a spectacular candidate. he's been doing this for 40 years. he knows how to take a turn.

he knows how to deflect. good on his feet better than almost all the other candidates involved and he's still doing it. >> he's -- you're right, mike. one of the thing, people underestimated with senator sanders just how good he is as a political performer. seen him in debates. it's true people haven't focused on him in the way they are going to tonight. he's been very good at defending, deflecting doing all that stuff. there's a little -- in their minds, on questions like this one, a question, it's one thing to have a tactical deflection and kind of ducking, bobbing, weaving on a debate stage. another thing for bernie sanders to capitulate in this mind, capitulate to demands of the pundit class or the moderates or whoever. the establishment, and he's going to dig in on this and going to i think play the card of authenticity and not the card of i can somehow duck and bob and weave and get away from this. i think live or die on that

hill. >> elise, exactly what his campaign has said. not lying about his past. all out there. take it or leave it. the question is, do voters care? does it matter to voters? are they willing to accept some of this stuff about castro and the sandinistas and soviet union and everything us because they like medicare for all? because they like free college tuition and those plans and i guess the second question is, is it too late now for democrats to bore into this old stuff? donald trump is going to have a field day with it, if it comes up in the general election, but is it too late for democrats to use this on him and will it matter? >> i think i can answer that with one sentence. the difference between being right and winning. so does bernie sanders want to play politics a little bit and win? or does he want to have ideological purity? a successful candidate who is going to beat donald trump is going to have to be political and make some compromises and

massage his words a bit. although i bet if anyone has watched any of the vermont public access, bernie sanders is burlington mayor, i'm sure he ex-pounds at depth about fidel castro and the literacy programs. so it's all out there. so he has such a record that maybe he -- if he doesn't want -- he doesn't have to actively poke the bear, but he can't really run away from it, because it is there. >> the bear. yes. the russian bear is there. >> well, it worked for trump. >> well, the things is, eugene, interesting, bernie sanders is perfectly willing to be cynical when it comes to talking about medicare for all. he fudges it. what? glad to fudge the economics of medicare for all, but he won't when it comes to his past flowery statements about the soviet union? the sandinistans, or fidel castro? >> this is a close race. it doesn't matter how many times

people say that sanders is the front-runner. things are not decided and he's not in a position he can afford to lose support, lose voters especially in states like south carolina where the democratic electorate is more socially conservative on some issues than perhaps new hampshire and other places that the senator has experienced some success. so while this certainly will be favorable to his base and people who be already supporting him, he's in a position where he really does need to win over democrats who are more conservative and more moderate than he is and this, perhaps is just not the best way to do that. he certainly could use this time differently to focus on issues that people who are looking at biden and looking at buttigieg value, and praising issues like regimes that have caused so much harm to people regardless of whatever good they may have done. in helping somebody already having a difficult time in

medicare for all. >> and "washington post" reports sanders offered criticism and plenty of craze in vermont television recordering following trips to communist countries. videos that have been kept in storage for decades. even after being posted online, have remained relatively unknown. what the -- >> so, guy, weigh in, if you will. there's been a back and forth about the possibility of a sanders nomination hurting down ballot candidates. hurting senate candidates in purple states. just give us general history of that. is that -- are democrats worrying too much, too soon about this? >> look, i think if you look at where democrats made the biggest gains especially in house races in 2018, all of those gains were made, most of those gains were made in the suburbs. and in many ways powered in

particular by suburban women. this will be, i think, both a challenge and the opportunity for the sanders campaign not only in the primary but going into the general election and its impact on down ballot races. i thought that senator sanders' pea speech after the nevada caucus was really on point. he brought in his message a bit, started telling personal stories. did it a little bit in follow-up interviews but i think he has to answer these questions. the reality is, for the most part we've seen a democratic primary that has been willing to clash a little bit on the debate stage. they've been willing to fight back and forth in usological twitter fights. but i say this about all the candidates. there's been a lack of real engagement on the airwaves, online, in these states bringing about all of these issues, whether it's bloomberg's record, biden's record, sanders record. i think all will have to account and i think tonight will be really critical for bernie sanders, because we obviously

know he's going to get asked about this. it will be on a much bigger stage, frankly, than a town hall. more democratic primary voters tuning in than on "60 minutes." this is going to be an opportunity for him, and i hope his campaign is preparing for these very questions, and explaining how this impacts races around the country. particularly those house races in suburban seats. >> yep. >> all of these questions, all of these candidates will have tough questions tonight. >> so interesting. glad guy brought up the suburban seats, mike, because i'm sure you saw the "new york times" article yesterday that said bernie's expanding the voter base. we're not picking on bernie. first of all i say anyone that praises the soviet union, castro or the sandinistans, we're going to talk about that and also talking about mike bloomberg and what he said four years ago. aye-yi-yi! holy cow! these guys. come on! so, anyway, we'll get to that in a minute.

but -- there's the "new york times" article, nate cohen, yesterday, wrote about how sanders is saying that he's attracting a wave of new voters. it's just not happened. he's not. by the way, i've heard others say this, too. if you want to see where -- because democrats, yes, they got more people voting than in '16 but a lot less than '08 in nevada and a couple other states. there hasn't ban ground swell you think you would have in the age of trump for democratic primaries, and also the areas, this "new york times" article describes, the areas where the voter rolls have actually gotten bigger are areas that pete buttigieg, amy klobuchar, the sort of moderates, self-described moderates. where they won. where sanders won, the vote count staid about the same. he's just doing a good job consolidating democrats.

he's not expanding the democratic base. >> okay. i want to ask you something about bernie sanders. first of all, bernie sanders, if they load up on him tonight and attack him tonight i don't think it makes any difference. he's been out there, again, for 40 years. he ran for president against hillary clinton four years ago. >> that's correct. >> what are they going to do that hasn't already been done to bernie sanders? the second thing is, you tell me, joe scarborough, you've been on the ballot. how is it you get a multiple field of candidates, democratic candidates running for the presidential nomination tonight. >> right ng. >> and they will i bet go after the one guy whose name is not on the ballot in south carolina. mike bloomberg. they will attempt to crush him at the expense of going after the guy who stands in front of them all -- bernie sanders. >> and the "new york times" story with nate cohen. i wanted to get her name. i remember two people writing.

so to answer your question. listen, and -- guy knows this stuff a lot better than i do, but i will jeust tell you. what do we see time and time again? the best political athlete wins. the fastest, the most agile. but you know, and it's something that we relearn, i've relearned every two years for the past 40 years. ideology, throw it out the window. throw positions out the window. throw everything out the window. the best political athlete that can get up on the stage that can pivot like bernie can pivot and he's always talking like this and i'm like, why is he always screaming? and yet there is something so compelling about bernie on the stage. no doubt. he is the best political athlete out there. and, yes, he's going to get absolutely destroyed by another great political athlete in donald trump's own bizarre way. he's got -- he's got a political style that is bizarre as arnold

palmer's golf swing but arnold palmer won a lot of tournaments. right? >> yeah. >> and so great political athletes win. >> i would also suggest, and may guy cecil can bear us out or bear me out on this. if you listen to bernie sanders at any one of his rallies, he gets into something, no in-depth, but he gets into something i have not heard the other candidates get into, guy, and it's the paycheck to paycheck economy. the take-home pay of people who know when they look at their paycheck they hear all the talk about the roaring stock market, except for yesterday, and they know that they're not doing as well as they did in 1995, on a per capita basis. bernie talks about that. i don't know other candidates, they don't talk about it, as much? >> yeah. this is the thing. bernie understands. it's the reason why he has been as successful as he is. you know, whenever he talk about the economy, as you said, people

talk about the unemployment rate. talk about the stock market. but underneath that, one of every four pennsylvanians is having problems taking care of basic expenses. 40% of americans say they couldn't afford a $400 unexpected expense. our poll, 61% of voters in michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania and florida say that donald trump's economic policies have done little or nothing to actually help them. >> yep. >> so i think cutting through all of the conversation, bernie's been clear and consistent about his economic message. love it or hate it. he's been clear. that's attracted a lot of young people who have grown up in the shadow of the great recession. i also think that tonight's debate will be much different than the last debate. certainly michael bloomberg will take some hits. frankly, i don't know how many hits he has to take in order for him to fumble the debate. hopefully he's actually show up to this one, but when you look at this debate, i think the dynamic's going to be much different.

i think you'll see biden and steyer competing for the african-american vote. you'll see amy klobuchar taking on sanders in a more direct way rather than getting into a back and forth with pete buttigieg. this will be a much wilder free-form debate than you saw in the last one. >> everybody state right where you are. the bloomberg recordings are next. we'll be right back. the neighbd with some homemade biscuits! >>oh, that's so nice! and a little tip, geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. >>hmm! >>cookies! uhh, biscuits. >>mmmm, is there a little nutmeg in there? oh it's my mum's secret recipe. >>you can tell me. it's a secret. >>is it cinnamon? it's my mum's secret recipe. call geico and see how easy saving on homeowners and condo insurance can be. i'll come back for the plate. ♪ ♪

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earlier we were just talking about the -- >> okay, getting into bloomberg. i promise. >> we have recordings. >> so many quotes. talking about recordings we got. >> real quit. >> vermont public television. holy moly. you have something on bernie when in nicaragua. >> i don't have it. out there many years and something the trump campaign, i assure you, has locked and loaded from day one of the campaign if bernie sanders was the nominee. mayor of burlington, vermont traveled to nicaragua for the

anniversary of the revolution. chanted here there, everywhere, the yankee will die. bernie sanders was at that event. >> and he came back, obviously talki talking -- he was an orioles fan. >> all about the al east. odd. >> but you have that. you have bernie in a party, political party in 1980. >> a lot to see. >> supporting the, that actually supported the taking of the iranian hostages. now, i don't know how that play will match in mississippi but in myrtle grove, florida, i don't think they're going to like that. >> myrtle grove -- >> maybe younger voters who have no memory of this era of history, and they're going to stick with bernie. maybe that will be -- >> something true about that. >> maybe they will stick with bernie. concerned about the older voters who actually turn out and will come and vote. >> and how do younger voters not know that 100 million people died at the hands of communism in the 20th century in communist

countries? are they really that illiterate historically? >> no, i don't believe they are. but they listen to bernie sanders talk about free college tuition, free medical care, erasing college tuition debt that exists. that's pretty appealing to a lot of people if you're 25, 26, you're out in the job market and making, i don't know, say you're doing okay. $75 grand a year and half of your take-home pay goes to paying off college debt? bernie sounds pretty good for you. >> yes, he does. all right. now we get to michael bloomberg's campaign defending yet another strain of his recently unearthed remarks. according to audio obtained by cnn, bloomberg spoke about the authenticity of his re-election endorsement of president obama during an event hosted by goldman sachs in 2016. >> i wrote a very backhanded endorsement of obama saying i thought he hadn't done the right

thing, hadn't done, been good at things that i think are important, and romney would be a better person of doing that, but romney did not stick with the values that he had when he was governor of massachusetts. he was much more liberal a choice, of immigration and things that i care about and so i was going to vote for barack obama. i thought the democrats would throw it back in my face. he loved the endorsement. >> wow. wait. didn't he have a commercial that made is sound like barack obama endorsed him? he didn't. >> even talking about that, guy, was the fact he'd said if he ran in 2016, that one of his most important campaign planks would be, fighting for the banks. >> very popular in a democratic primary. >> yeah. >> look i don't think anybody that was in the obama

administration or in the obama campaign itself is surprised by this video. anybody that was around in 2012 knows it was relatively reluctance. those of us that were fighting very hard to make sure that democrats retain and picked up a democratic senate, you know, we remember the serious level of support that the mayor offered to democratic candidates, but we also, many of us, remember the contributions that he made to a republican senate candidate in pennsylvania and elsewhere. to a governor in michigan who was responsible for the flint water crisis. i mean, guess what? a news flash. there is no perfect person and there is no perfect candidate. >> hmm. >> the challenge for these candidates is in a field of seven or eight people, it's very difficult to buy air time. to carve out a place on this debate stage. i agree with your point about the best political athlete. tonight will be a challenge for every candidate on the stage

and, remember, one more candidate now on this stage than last time. to separate themselves. i think we'll have a high degree of viewership. the question, can one or two of these candidates rise up to meet the challenge? frankly, the way that elizabeth warren did in the last debate. >> and heilemann in after listening to this next clip at the same goldman sachs event mayor bloomberg warned about the rise of the progressive movement specifically naming senator elizabeth warren. >> -- progressive movement, this is scary. elizabeth warren on one side and, i don't know, whoever you want to pick on the right side. >> john heilemann, at the last debate a few days ago elizabeth warren turned to her right and went right at mayor bloomberg. i guess we can expect more of the same tonight. what is the strategy going in? because bernie sanders obviously now is the front-runner. elizabeth warren, though, still seems to have her focus on mayor bloomberg. >> well, i think, willie, i

think you know, for elizabeth warren, who in iowa and new hampshire was reluctant to contrast herself with anyone. even on matters of policy. she tried to, positioned herself memorably, unity candidate. not draw contrast. didn't work for her in those places. mike bloomberg has been a godsend for her because he represents everything she's running against. she's a plutocrat. he's trying to buy the election from her point of view. got her at a time when they needed to get her dander and back up about some things to show her, show voters especially voters on the left she's a fighter, he became a great target for her. obviously she dismembered him pretty thoroughly in the last debate. i agree with you. i think there's going to be a temptation for her to try to do that again with mike bloomberg. mike barnicle pointed to it earlier. everyone wants to turn on bloomberg because he is a soft target and the emanation is coming out of the bloomberg campaign, supposed to do a town

hall last night with cnn. they backed out of that, last minute. to "focus more on debate prep." generally not a good sign your debate prep is going well when pulling out of another televised appearance scheduled. the word coming out of there, working hard trying to get mike to clear the bar, mike bloomberg to clear the bar. so i think the question for all of these democrats is now, if mike bloomberg comes in, a little better tonight, a little better than certainly in the first hour last week, do these democrats get distracted by trying to pummel a tomato can, and take their eye off the ball who is bernie sanders. bernie sanders is the front-runner. not just the front-runner -- >> just for us drawing diagrams at home. is bloomberg the tomato can? >> yeah. >> bloomberg is the -- >> don't kick the tomato can down the street because it's just an empty tomato can.

go after the guy in first place. >> right. don't kick the tomato can when you see the bullet train flying by you on left on its way to the nomination. don't kick the tomato can, try to stop the train. >> i think they're both trains. >> he may already be unstoppable. with super tuesday coming up three days after south carolina with performance in those states. look how he's performing in california and amount of early votes already banked out of california, a third of the vote's already happened probably in california. texas. those are places where after next tuesday, bernie sanders could have an insurmountable lead in pledge delegates already. no doubt, this is the last chance, hold him, slow his momentum got to beat him in south carolina. one candidate on the stage can beat him in south carolina that's joe biden but collectively they could do something to arrest his momentum

heading into this state. heard it on the show already today. no early vote in south carolina. this debate matters a lot in terms what going to happen on saturday. if these democrats get distracted by the tomato can i guarantee you bernie sanders will win the state saturday and then it's pretty much over, guys. i don't care hour early it is. bernie sanders is on his way to the democratic nomination. >> known as a tomato can debate in heilemann's next book. and ask you about thinking specifically, eugene. joe biden in recent weeks said i struggled in iowa and new hampshire, bust just get me to south carolina. i have support of african-american voters there. that has shrunk considerably over the months. up 40 points when we started it several months ago and now it's down and he's effectively tied in some polls with bernie sanders. what happens here? say it's a tight race. say joe biden wins by a little bit.

did does that even change the trajectory of the race because bernie sanders is ill it going like this, with the last two wins, keeping it close and perhaps even winning in south carolina? >> i was in south carolina talking about that specifically. the reality many grandparents and parents are supporting biden they themselves are supporting sanders. if biden does win that will give his campaign a bit of a bump, but as mentioned earlier, it's not going to slow sanders down. while that will be frustrating for his opponents, i think they would much rather have sanders speeding to the nomination than bloomberg which is why i think they will spend so much time attacking him tonight and moving forward. they look at these two individuals who are outside of the moderate establishment segments of the democratic party and they think sanders is more one of them than bloomberg and there's real fear if they don't focus on bloomberg that he could increase his performance particularly with black voters and that's why they want these

recordings to keep coming occupy, exposing him to them for who he is and so they can get him out of the way even if that means letting sanders win. >> all right. eugene scott thank you very much. we'll be reading your reporting for the "washington post." >> i'm curious. going on quickly. this is the tomato can quiz. so mika, do you think mike bloomberg is a tomato can they should just stop kicking around and focus on bernie sanders? >> no. i think he's a bullet train, too. >> you still fear the tomato can. >> yeah. >> what about you? tomato can or not? >> i think mike bloomberg tonight, everything depends on tonight basically for mike bloomberg but if i'm one of those other candidates running out of money maybe try to lie low a little bit and hope that some of his money would come in down the road. >> yeah. what about you, mike? bloomberg, is he a tomato can, a distracti distraction? >> he's not, but i mean instead of, to john's metaphor. focusing on the train, instead, rushing past them, focus on a guy who's not even on the

ballot. >> right. bloomberg may be the only candidate who can stop him. pair your money with candidate performance. haven't seen that yet. >> haven't seen that yet and if they don't stop bernie tonight, it's just simple. i mean, it doesn't matter who else is onstage. completely agree with john here. if they do not stop bernie sanders tonight, it is over. >> yeah. >> if bernie sanders wins south carolina, it is over. bernie sanders will be the nominee. i remember we said the same thing about donald trump going into south carolina last year. if donald trump wins south carolina, and then gets catapulted in first place into super tuesday, it's over, and it was over. so democrats can stop him tonight, or start figuring out how they're going to win with bernie sanders as their nominee. >> last for this block, guy season, today priorities usa releases its first two television ads of the 2020 cycle

focusing on president trump and the issue of health care. the ads air in the crucial battlegrounds states, wisconsin, pennsylvania, florida and michigan. here's the one focusing on health care. >> in 2017 i was diagnosed with breast cancer. it feels like a title wave. you have no idea what your future's going to be. now donald trump wants to eliminate protections for pre-existing conditions like mine. it would make it impossible for people like me to find affordable health care. i will always be a breast cancer survivor. if donald trump had his way, i would no longer have health insurance coverage. >> priorities usa actions responsible for the content of this advertising. >> and then -- guy cecil, one other ad. go ahead, mike. >> that ad gets to the ludicr s ludicrousness of this campaign. attacking each other. guy, i'm getting tired of candidates attacking each other on the stage tonight about what they said four, five, six, eight years ago. instead of, democratic voters

are showing up for one thing and one thing only. largely. to defeat donald trump on issues like health care. >> that's right. i think part of the reason why you see sort of moderates, low turnout, in part for a lot of democrats, they could support any of these nominees. i want to be clear. we've had a lot of conversations this morning about tapes and about sanders and about bloomberg. any of these democrats on the stage tonight would be heads and tails above an anti-democratic president who let's his impulsiveness, chaos, arrogance and ego do real harm to the american people. and you know, our job at priorities and the reason why we've been very clear that we're neutral in the primary and will support bernie sanders or elizabeth warren or joe biden is because our country is at stake. you know, while this primary is going on, donald trump is advertising in key battleground states, he's been online talking

to key voters. not just this week. not just this month, since last year. so our focus at priority is to make sure that we are taking the fight to donald trump, not on his twitter screens. not on his arrogance alone but on how those things impact real people in this country. gm plants are shutting down. tax breaks are going to billionaires. kids are being caged. so, yes. i do think people should explain their position, should answer for videos and people should not just be kicking tomato cans. be real and put it in a con text of a president destroying our country from the inside-out and we will dough anything and everything we can to support the democratic nominee. that begins with focusing on issues people actually care about. raising their wages, taking carriage of their health insurance. making sure we can cover the cost of college and taking care of our parents. not getting rid of medicare or

cutting social security. if democrats focus on these five issues we will win this election irrespective of anything else brought in our path. >> guy cecil, thank you very much. great to have you on this morning. >> and john heilemann, what are you looking for tonight? >> the great thing about politics, joe. you can turn yourself from a tomato can into a superman with one great debate. mike bloomberg has extraordinary resources. we know that. this debate for him is as black and white as this question about bernie sanders which is, people will give mike bloomberg a second chance having utterly failed last week. if he comes in, give as strong debate performance tonight he's in position to rise up potentially and be the main moderate challenger to bernie sanders over the long haul because the only one with the money to go deep, deep, deep into the race and been competing in the super tuesday states. as i said before with the early vote, bloomberg's got a toehold

or foot hold in a bunch of states. this debate is hugely important for bloomberg, too. if sanders wins south carolina. you win nevada, new hampshire and south carolina historically unprecedented for someone who won basically the first early states to then not be the nominee. it's true the establishment will look to rally around someone to stop bernie sanders in march, april, may, june. so mike bloomberg could still be that person, but he's got to bring it tonight on the debate stage or else he'll be done. you get one mulligan. that's about it. >> john heilemann, thank you. >> our superman. >> see you tomorrow live from south carolina following tonight's tomato can debate. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> both vice president biden and former mayor buttigieg have taken on tough fights. under threat of a nuclear iran, joe biden helped to negotiate the iran deal. and under threat of disappears pets, buttigieg negotiated lighter licensing regulations on

pet chip scanners. >> that was part of a joe biden attack ad this month aimed at the experience and accomplishments of former south bend mayor pete buttigieg. our next guest says mayors are returning the world. rahm emanuel joins us with his new book straight ahead on "morning joe." (howling wind) (howling wind)

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a live look at the white house. joining us now, former white house chief of staff for president obama and former two-term mayor of chicago rahm emanuel. author of a new book "the nation city: why mayors are now running the world." great to have you back on the show. >> get to that in a second. talk about the important stuff first. >> oh. this book is very important! >> how are the cubs doing this year? >> we'll see. i don't know. depends on trades and stuff like that.

but going to be rooting for them. >> all right. we'll get to your book now. >> no, no. that's okay. you want to talk about your mother, your feelings? anything you want to talk about? >> yeah. >> what a about -- >> do you eat worms like your brother? >> you promise you don't eat worms? >> promise. >> what's your workout regime. >> you said it. >> you opened the door. >> we're going around the world. let's go. >> you ready? three time as week a mile. three time as week yoga. twice a week i do aerobics and three times weights. >> what's your diet like? >> a little much. >> diet, taken all meat out. >> really? >> yeah. now, let's talk about the book. >> oh, oh! now you want to talk about the book. >> a few more minutes. >> let's talk about the book. why did you write it? >> i think the center of gravity in politics moved dramatically. look at it today, look at england. former mayor of london now the prime minister. more mayors running for

president in the united states combined over the last 100 years telling you politics shifted. peopleand wanting a nair that understands the government. think where you live, where you send your kids to school, libraries, all services you rely on come out of local government and all republican institutions federal trust in the '20s. local government, '70s. in addition to that, while this happened before in history, mayors actually in this case are taking on things they never used to take on. climate change. immigration. research centers. things they have to do because the federal government bedefault receded from playing a central role. cities as well as quality of life stepped forward into things they never, ever, 10 let alone 15 years ago. illustration, we did a chicago

charter on climate change. paris accord never would have happened 20 years ago let alone 10 years ago. doing transportation, parks, libraries keeping your city in the forefront now taking on major international issues because the federal government abandoned this priority. happening in brussels and in the atlantic and disneyland on the potomac. >> talking about pete buttigieg negotiating the iran deal putting lights under bridges, to a lot of people a good ad. others thought, i don't know. kind of like the lights under the bridge. i like my mayor. >> remember the governor of michigan. pave the damn roads. got them where they want them. so low. in their view, street lights, cobblestone, check me in. the fact is, when you think about it. today the major things that you go to the american people, am i

getting universal pre-k for my children? in chicago set up with other cities replicating, b average in high school we make community college free. biggest burden on american families, which child can you afford to send to college? cities are the ones innovating. boston doing it, louisville, denver, san francisco's doing it. guess what? federal government's never called, never studied, never looked at it. either outside of pennsylvania avenue. an important new happening in education. president trump tried to pass universal pre-k across the country to his credit's what did he do? called the mayors i need you to move on this. across the country city after city multiple size, democratic mayors passing and implementing universe pre-k. >> rahm, you sound like bernie sanders. universal pre-k. >> i sound like dr. emanuel's son. >> no, no. didn't mean it as a criticism. you shouldn't take it that way.

>> i didn't take it that way. >> to get people to community college for free are ideas elizabeth warren and bernie sanders have put out. >> they have put them out. 8,000 children in chicago have already taken free community college called chicago star the. 8,000 children in chicago have taken free community college. 81% of them come from families that never have gone to college. and i will guarantee you we'll be close to 20,000 children do it before they get a bill introduced, i don't think they will pass it. i wish they would. don't get me wrong. but one of the challenges we face as a federal government has actually broken to the point it's not meeting the needs of the people in their communities. i say the community of america. so mayors realizing high school degree 20th sench rip, great. 21st century, you have to have two years minimum. so this year in chicago, the first city to do it. get your high school diploma.

you have to show a letter of acceptance. every child, not just the emanuel children, every child will have a post-high school plan because that's what the 21st century requires. and national government crickets. nowhere to be seen. >> unlike the united states senators, congressmen, mayors have to interact with people every single day. one of the more significant national issues is immigration. could you talk about today immigration mayors, big city, small cities, you get i.c.e. s.w.a.t. teams sent to city. you as a form er mayor have to deal with your police department to work out a policy. are you going to cooperate with i.c.e. or not? >> no, but also mlet me give yo the affirmative. step back for a second. chicago is different. in our city there's 145 languages spoken in the public

schools. now, there's a lot of religions, a lot of faiths and backgrounds from both sides of the atlantic. but the aspiration of the parents are the same. so an example of what the city like los angeles is doing, our libraries we have immigration cente centers. we help people become citizens. the idea that your local law enforcement for trust and dialogue and relationship would be participation in separating families, abiding by the law, not a chance would that happen because you'd rip the fabric of both community and community policing. the goal of safety is trust. if you literally have police as an axillary of i.c.e., the community a that you need to know and work to identify a crime or a pattern in your neighborhood, you would be breaking that trust. so no mayor, democrat or republic, would turn their

police department into an axillary device because you'd rip at the fabric of your community policing. >> rahm, the book is "the nation city", why mayors are running the world. >> for you i'm giving an audio. >> did you say you were doing yoga? mindfulness. you seem less reactive. >> i wouldn't go that far. >> you might be mindful. >> you seem hostile towards mindfulness. >> war or peace. >> let me ask you this. tonight, what are you look for at the debate? >> everybody has a different measure. so one is bernie is a front runner that if things don't happen he becomes the presumptivive nominee. so they have a responsibility. number two, biden has to prove himself. bloomberg has to prove that was

a one off. everybody else who has been third, fourth or fifth, but never really emerged, has to get a medal at some point. what's really interesting to me, two things, i would say, at this point in ten years ago, if you were third or fourth consistently, money be over. the internet has changed. you can stay around the hoop and wait for elijah to come because the of the bernt. ten years ago you'd be dried up. you'd be out of this by now. this has to get focused. i do think everybody has an individual challenge. but i think in my view in vegas if there was malpractice, four people would be sued right now. everybody is look iing at a guy not on the ballot yelling at him. that's a lot of anger. i get why actually. the other guy who is front runner, you're in vegas where two years ago the worst mass shooting in american history and you never say the fact he's with

the nra. not with the rest of the democrats on guns. the other thing he had a heart attack and went to the vegas hospital. did he use medicare for all or his senate government health care plan. which one? nobody asked a single question. so they shock. my view is you either take on and decide you're going to deal with the front runner like everybody has in the past or yourl out of a lot of anger that mike did not do what he should have done and go actually earn. when people are reacting as bill clinton said, i'm going to be here until the last dog dies. he got something because people knew he had sweat equity in the game. >> he was a mayor. >> clinton has a lot of sayings about dogs. >> rahm earth mmanuel, gate to

you. still ahead, we'll take a look at some of the the most touching moments from the public memorial to celebrate the life of nba legend kobe bryant and his daughter. and much more on democrats turning up the heat on front runner bernie sanders ahead of tonight's debate in south carolina. but will they be able to slow his roll before saturday's primary? a look at that and the other dynamics we'll be watching on "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug

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♪ everyone we're looking now surrounded by your embrace ♪ ♪ baby i can see your halo ♪ pray it won't fade away >> that was beyonce performing a at the incredible memorial remembrance of kobe bryant and his daughter gianna and the others who perished in the

helicopter crash. really moving remarks by his wife vanessa as well. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday, february 25th. we have national political correspondent for nbc news and author of "the red and the blue" steve kornacki. good to have you on board. ahead of the primary, the latest nbc news poll shows joe biden with a narrow lead over bernie sanders in that state. biden with 27% and sanders with 23%. within the polls, 6-point margin of error. they are followed by tom stoeye whose $20 million in ad spending powered him to 15% in the state. pete buttigieg is now at 9%. elizabeth warren is at 8%. amy klobuchar at 5%. >> so we'll go through inside of the poll, but before we do that,

steve kornacki looking at those numbers. for me the big question mark is tom steyer. he had big poll numbers in nevada and never translated to to votes. this, of course, came on the app poll. it showed joe biden with a 15-point lead. what are you looking a at when you look at these polls? >> this is supposedly the biden firewall state. how many times have we heard that? we have seen margins here for biden a lot bigger than 4 poi s points. but it is good news for him coming off the performance he's had in the first three states to be leading in a poll like this. if you look at the black vote in this poll, more than half the electorate in south carolina is african-american. he has a 15-point advantage there over bernie sanders. but really what jumps out at me is half of this poll was taken before that debate last week. and half of this poll was taken after that debate last week. and in the pre-debate half of the poll, biden's lead was 10

points. in the post debate half it was dead even. that tells you these debates really can move the numbers. it's not an early voting state where all the votes were cast before the debate. this debate tonight can matter a lot. >> wow. >> let's move on and -- >> among votblack voters, bidens 35%. sanders, 20%. no one else got above 4%. >> and this really is, again, this is why you have mayor pete who did so well in the first few states. now, of course, struggling. he's going to be struggling over the next several days to show that he can be viable nationally because he just still is not a automobile it get votes among many black south carolina ians d black democrats. same with elizabeth warren down

at what is she 7%. so right now, it is bernie sanders and biden and steyer, who is doing are pretty well with the black vote. >> the argument for pete buttigieg way back when, if he wins a little bit f he does well in iowa and new hampshire, the prague mat you can voters will take another look at him and do better. he did win iowa in terms of pledge delegates. and he still basically flatlining among african-american voters that's a huge problem for him. >> it's interesting among the progressive group. they were all clumped together. not so long ago. with warren and buttigieg and sanders. sanders has seen his support slowly rise up and is making all the difference in the world right now. >> that's the interesting thing. willie mentions pete buttigieg. nevada does have a significant black population about 1 in 10 votes in the caugcuses were fro

black voters. so rolling that into broader support, he got 2%. but sanders is interesting. if you think back to four years ieg, he won new hampshire and narrowly lost iowa. the question in south carolina for sanders four years ago was could he attract significant african-american support against hillary clinton. could he make it a game with black voters throughout the south, in particular. south carolina was the test of that four years ago. and among black voters, it was hillary clinton 86 to 14 in south carolina over bernie sanders. he lost the black vote by 72 points four years ago. he's down in this one by 15. but i think there's an opportunity for him to potentially with a good debate last night, this poll was taken before that result from nevada. if there is some kind of bandwagon eskts from winning nevada, he has a chance to draw even. it's almost what he did in nevada. >> bernie sanders is facing backlash following his remarks

during a "60 minutes" interview where he renewed praise for former leader of cuba fidel castro. his campaign manager yesterday addressed how this might affect the vermont run for the president is sit and sanders defended his remarks during a cnn town hall last night. >> sanders comes from a place of conviction. when you look at what he said for decades, hecastro has been human rights abuser. but there may have been good things happening in cuban society. people try to throw these kind of political barbs at bernie sanders and what ends up being translated to the public is there's a person of honesty who doesn't play politics. he's it telling me what he believes. i don't see a problem with it. >> when castro first came to

power in '59, you know what he did? he initiated a major literacy program. there was a lot of folks in cuba at that point who were illiterate. he formed a literacy brigade. they helped people learn to read and write. i think teaching people to read and write is a good thing. >> okay. >> i don't even know what to say. because he has this with every regime. he finds something he likes. >> who does that remind you of? >> he had a literacy regime. but he also had a regime who tortured catholics, tortured people who worshipped god in a way he didn't like, tortured students that had newspapers, kept people locked up for years,

killed people. and then when bernie talks about the soviet union, they had wonderful chandeliers. did you see they had wonderful chandeliers in their subways. this is not an argument. the same thing with the nicaragua talking about the progress they are making instead of talking about the torturing and instead of talking about -- has there been a communist regime that bernie sanders visit ed that he didn't find something appealing? you can't talk about chandeliers in a subway when you're talking about a regime that killed 30 or 40 million of its own people either through force, famines or through torture or show trials. you cannot talk about fidel castro's literacy is program. you just can't. not in american politics. you shouldn't be able to. without talking about the long

laundry list of evils committed by fidel castro against his own people over decades. that is, wait for it, that's like saying mussolini had the trains running. have you seen the trains? i'm telling you i'm sitting there by the trains and what do i see for my 9:00 train? the train is coming up here. while people are up on meat hooks lined up behind the train. you can't do it. i understand, we all say crazy things. it was the '70s and the '80s and the '90s. but he's defending this. >> and doubling down. >> and doubling down in 2020. that ain't cool not just with former republicans. that ain't cool with south carolina voters. that ain't cool with democrats. >> and cool with democrats in florida. they have made that very clear. >> i will say this.

we never know what's going to happen. as somebody that knows about florida politics. bernie sanders will get wiped out in is south florida, which means he will never -- i'm talking about in the general election, don't know how he will do in the primary there. kiss florida good-bye. >> the first south american immigrant member of congress who proudly represents cuban-americans i find the comments on castro's cuba unacceptable. don that sha la la echoing that. he was confronted last night in a town hall and didn't try to couch it at all. he's what i meant. he repeated it. the literacy program was good. as his campaign manager said and he's right, bernie sanders is consistent on this. he lived it in the '70s and the '80s and the '90s. they are saying he's not going to lie about the way he feels. he's not a politician. and voters will have to make up

their minds whether that consistency is a good thing or you're praising dictators is disqualifying. >> i'm not sure how it's going to come out in the cross tabs here, but i don't think ortega and stalin fair very well. >> i haven't seen a stalin poll in awhile. but when we talked about bernie sanders and his poll numbers, the one thing we say is there's a profound age divide. when you're talking about folk who is are under 45 years old, and particularly under 30 years old, he got 66% in nevada under 30 years old. when you go to the other age spectrum, folks who remember daniel ortega, those battles of the 1980s who remember democrats in the 1970s, george mcgovern, the charge they were soft on communism. that was the charge out there in

american politics that was a difficult position for democrats like michael cohccgovern to be . those are the folk who is have not been warm thing up to him consistently in the polls. people who don't have much firsthand memory of the '80s, '70s and '60s, bernie sanders is doing well. >> the thing is though, that you had in george mcgovern a guy that didn't talk about what he thought was most intriguing a about the soviet system and how they were all very content. bernie said they were content. i forget the exact word was, but there was a level of contentment there among soviet citizens. the only person who ever visited the soviet union from the west and came back and said that. it'ses a stou s astounding. >> this is a moment where the white house is licking its chops with bernie sanders as a

candidate. it gets to the heart of something that donald trump wants to talk about, which is patriotism. which is do you love this country. and if he can go out on the stump every day and say this is castro's guy, this is stalin's guy, you can go down the list. he wants to have that conversation. that's why donald trump goes out and says, don't let them steal it from you, bernie. congratulations on your big win in nevada. donald trump doesn't have a leg to stand on in terms of authoritarians. but this is the conversation donald trump is happy to have. still ahead on "morning joe," marharvey weinstein's new role, rapist. we'll talk to the reporter who helped expose his crimes. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. census is w that great promise is kept. because this is the count that informs where hundreds of billions in funding will go each year for things like education, healthcare, and programs that touch us all.

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call today. comcast business. beyond fast. after multiple hours of deliberation following a six-week trial in new york city, former producer harvey weinstein has been found guilty. a first degree criminal sexual

act and third degree rape, capping a landmark trial and delivering a victory to the me too movement. the jury, however, acquitted him of first degree rape and predatory sexual assault. in all, more than 80 women accused weinstein of sexual assault and harassment going back decades. now the 67-year-old faces between 5 and 25 years in prison on the criminal sexual act charge and up to four years for third degree rape. weinstein, who showed no emotion as the verdict was read pleaded not guilty in the case and continues to deny all allegations of nonconsensual sex. joining us is megan tua, author of the book "she said." also with us legal analyst danny sa va lo. >> i flash back to when this

started. and i flash back to weinstein calling the harassment and the israeli investigators and spies, all of that happening and i thought for you and for the entire investigative unit, this has been quite a journey. >> it certainly has. and i think it's been not just a journey for us as journalists, but for just the broader me to movement. this showed that accountability can stretch from the court of public opinion to the court of criminal law. >> so weinstein, danny, what does he face? what is he likely facing? >> did he make it to rikers? i heard he went to the hospital. some people think he might be kind of putting on his own produce d show in terms of his health. >> rikers has a medical

facility, but i'm not sure that's where he was taken. but you asked a about his exposure. the sentencing guidelines call for 5 to 25 years. it's for the criminal sexual assault, not the third degree rape. third degree rape guidelines call for 1 1/2 to 4 years. those can be consecutive, lined up end to end, and the total could be 29 years, if the judge wanted to impose the statutory max. but i caution folks to be prepared. harvey weinstein is a first time offender and generally in the system you're entitled to something on the lower end of the sentencing guidelines whenever you're a first time on the offender. but when he heads to california, if he gets convicted in california, he will then be someone with a criminal record and you're going to see some higher sentences than the first time. >> this isn't over. have you reached out to any of the accusers you have been talking to over time? >> yes. within hours of the verdict

being delivered, we were on the phone to women who have come forward with allegations against him. and many of them described it as being hugely emotional. that it took a moment for it to sink in. one woman she was shaking before the dam broke and all of the tears just finally start ed to come out. and this is a hugely symbolic case. this was a risky case from the beginning. and it really pushed the boundaries of sex crimes prosecutions. >> can you explain that? we talked about this before. there was the danger that he would get off of the charges and would come out of the the court going, see, i told you it was nonsense. you said this was a really risky gam bet by the prosecutors. >> that's right. because the two women at the center of the criminal charges acknowledge having consensual sex with harvey after they were victimized by him. in general, prosecutors never

bring those types of sex crimes. they just think they are too messy to win convictions, but they pushed the envelope here. with this conviction, they may be reshaping public believes about which victims deserve their day in court. >> convicted in new york, this is not the end of something for him. it's just the next chapter because he's been b charge d alo in the state of california with a couple crimes for alleged rape in 2013. so where does this go now? he goes to rikers island. he was at bellevue with chest pains. he will go to rikers. then what happens from there? >> these are two separate sovereigns. heararvey weinstein has a right be present for his trial. logist logistically, they don't run very smoothly. i have had clients get caught up in cross country transportation by corrections. it did you want always run as efficiently as you might hope. but they will have to reach some agreement for new york to give him up to go cross country and appear in court in l.a.

and this may be a bit of theater for someone like harvey weinstein, but he will appear in front of the jury without handcuff asks in a suit. even though who in the country will be left who doesn't know he's incarcerated, whether on the jury or in the public. but weinstein will make a personal appearance in california to stand trial for those charges. >> coming up, it's not just the roger stone case that's royaling the justice department. the internal strife goes deeper than that. that story, next on "morning joe." we have like 40 years of data! that's incredibly valuable! ...i...i don't know... when did we introduce siracha? not soon enough. these are our sales... by product, by region... ...set against evolving demographics.

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joining us now mike barnacle. also former assistant united states attorney in the southern district of new york mimi roka. she's a criminal justice at pace school of law and a candidate for district attorney of westchester county. we want the to talk about "the new york times" report that tensions between the justice department and white house have been simmering since last summer leading up to the boiling point revolving around the sentencing

of roger stone. the ties began to break when the doj's investigation of former fbi official andrew mccabe began to fall apart. washington, d.c.'s former top prosecutor jesse lieu, who was appointed by trump to lead the office in 2017, pressed the mccabe case even after one team of prosecutors concluded that they could not win a conviction. sources close to the matter said that after a second team was brought in and also failed to deliver a grand jury indictment, lou's relationship with attorney general william barr grew strained. >> it's unbelievable. >> lou's departure this year made way for timothy say, who had previously worked under ag barr. it was shay who pushed for a lenient sentence of roger stone that sparked the onslaught of prosecutor defections from the department. where do we begin?

>> it's really just remarkable that you have somebody that the president of the united states is politically targeted. they put a team of prosecutors on there who say we can't get a prosecution in this case. and then the president's ag puts another set of prosecutors on there with a trump appointee leading the charge. they come back and say, no, we can't prosecute this guy. nothing is going to come of it. then barr is angry at the second set of prosecutors because he's not interested in justice. he just wants a political head to take back to the president of the united states. i have never heard of anything remotely like this in the justice department. >> nor have i. i was there for 16 1/2 years and i know people who served before that. what's really remarkable here,

the point that's worth highlighting is the career prosecutors, the ones who serve whether it's a democrat or republican president, whatever the administration, people trying to just look at the facts, look a at the law and serve the department of justice and the cause of justice. they are the one who is made the apolitical decision that mccabe i don't want to use the word pressure, but she certainly wanted them to be aggressive and look at it it again. she was feeling pressure. but then she did the right thing and said no to barr. what happened, though, is that she was basically punished for that, it seems. i'm reading what everybody else is reading, but it looks like she was then moved out and the person put in to replace her in

the stone case did not do the same thing. he did not stand up to barr. so the line of defense here against political intrusion in the department of justice is the political appointee. it's the u.s. attorneys. and they don't do their job and stand up to political interference, there's no line of defense. the career prosecutors cannot be the ones to do it. so that's where we're seeing the system as we have known b it through different parties and different political administrations fail now is the political appointees not standing up to political intrusion in the u.s. attorneys offices. >> thank you so much. coming up on "morning joe," an insurgent candidate. a passionate following and a party that does not know how to deal with it. as with donald trump in 2016, it's bernie sanders so far in 2020. "new york times" opinion reporter says the the characters are different, but the same

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vo:for president.ver that's mike bloomberg. a middle class kid who built a global company from scratch. mayor of new york, rebuilding the city after the 9-11 terrorist attack, creating 450,000 jobs. running for president - and on a roll. workable plans to deliver on better health care. affordable college. job creation. common sense plans to beat trump, fix the chaos in washington, and get things done. mike: i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message.

this is being viewed as a milestone for the me too movement. what message can you as president deliver to women in america and who are still afraid to come forward and share their story sexual harassment and assault. >> i don't know the results. i have been in india. >> i think that from the standpoint of women, i think it was a great thing. it was a great victory. and sends a strong message. >> as far as maguire is conce concerned, he's a terrific guy, but his team ended any way. we would have had to by statute, we would have had to change him any way. >> will your new dni have experience? >> yes, we're talking to five

different people right now. i think all people you know, all people you respect. and i'll make a decision probably over the next week to two weeks. >> interference, can you pledge to the american people that you will not accept any foreign assistance in the upcoming election? >> i want no help from any co t country. and i haven't been given help from any country. >> russia, if you're listening, that was donald trump. i think he did it. he actually asked for help. >> he asked from china too. >> if you can help me out, he asks everybody for help. >> china, china, china. >> i do want to say this. sometimes i'm critical of donald trump. sometimes. but you worked in the state department. we kept waiting during the obama era for the pivot to asia. it just never happened. we have been consumed in the

middle east. he said overly consumed in the middle east. i see donald trump having a good relationship with an indian prime minister. i don't really care what the reason is. why their personalities click the way they do. but india is such an important player, whether you're talking about as a counterbalance to china, whether you're talking about a growing economy, whether you're talking about afghanistan. and trying to somehow figure out how to fill that void in afghanistan. i'm just glad we have a president that has a good relationship with india. this is one area where i see those crowds and i see him and mo modi getting along. >> i'm all for it. donald trump, keep up the path you're on in india. let's not have any international incidents. eej the vegetarian food that modi is forcing you to eat. >> i wouldn't go that far. >> you know he's making him eat

vegetarian. >> i don't think donald is going to like that. >> i remember how during the bush administration it was contentious when the civil nuclear deal was struck and i think any time we can be on a strong path of alliance with india, it's good for our overall broader interests. >> we have been so consumed in the middle east since 9/11. but as richard says, overly so. we have been so consumed of the middle east that that pivot would never happen. and that's just such a key player on the global stage. and especially when you talk about afghanistan. getting things right. >> we spent 20 years now consumed by the middle east. but there's more to the world than obviously prime minister m odi understands how important this relationship is, packing a stadium for donald trump with

signs, playing his intromusic and everything else. these world leaders know how to get donald trump happy. joining us now research fellow at the hoover institution lon chen, white house correspondent and "new york times" opinion writer ross dalfit. how we became the vick tims of our own success. ross, let me start with you. how are we defining decadence in 2020 in america? >> it means that we are stagnant and stuck and want to get back to the future that we once imagined we would have. this is something that defines both the appeal of donald trump and the appeal of bernie sanders. i think if you look at what trump's slogans were in 2016, make america great again, it's basically saying to the country we were going somewhere better, we didn't get there. let's try and get there again. and sanders is saying the same thing to the left.

sanders message is we were going to be scandinavia. we were going to have universal health care and why can't we get back to that. they are both messages for a country that feels like it's stagnated and hasn't grown and been as dynamic as it was in its past. >> as donald trump would say, not only do we not get those great movies, we're get iting south korean movies. it's very important. it looks like a fantastic book. and i read some about it. you're very careful to say that a decadence is important. you're not going on some moral screen. decadence is not connected just to a decline in moral values. it's more of a stagnation. more of a collapse of innovation. >> it's a i'm borrowing it from a famous scholar who said,

decadence isn't a slur, it's a technical label. it's for a society that is rich. but you're decadent once your growth rates have slowed. all your technological advancement is adding up to we work. and when your birlt rates are declining and people don't have faith in the future anymore. a lot of pom lymph in the west comes out of that. this sense that not that things are collapsing, this isn't a book about the collapse of america, the barbarians coming in. it's about what happens when the country and a whole society feels like it doesn't have faith in the future anymore and can't move forward and just makes marvel block busters over and over again from now until eternity. >> let me just say the marvel block busters, very consistent

middle fair film making. my kids loved every one. i'll be quiet now about fims. >> the "star wars" movies are more decadent. >> before i get to everybody else my mother embarrassed that i'm not sharing the conversation more. i thus it's really cute how those of us around the table and i'll just put it on me especially have been talking about these horrible things bernie sanders once said and this is going to spell doom for bernie sanders in florida. this is going to -- it sounds so much like 2016 and i just sit here. we talk about it. and i'm just thinking, this is so moving bernie not because of us, but just because whenever

the establishment is up in airs about embracing communist dictatorships, it helps him out. you wrote a column about the three ways bernie sanders' rise is shadowed by what happened to donald trump in 2016. go through that. tell us why we're going to see the same marvel movie over again in 2020. >> basically what you have in the democratic party is the same failure of party institutions. democrats spend 2016 laughing at republicans and saying, your party is so weak. it can't stop this businessman who used to be a pro-choice democrat from taking over the party. now the same thing is happening with a socialist from vermont. the lesson is in both cases that the parties don't really exist anymore. or they exist as sort of empty planes waiting to be hijacked by

anyone who has a particularly passionate following. that's the lesson here. if you have 25 to 30% of the party behind you, you can do really well against a divided field. to one is going to tell -- there's no party establishment to say amy klobuchar, you have to get out of the race. or pete buttigieg, times up. that doesn't exist anymore. so sanders can win with 30%. and then the reality is then polarization takes over. and the party will unite behind him because you got to beat trump. >> you were involved in mitt romney's 2012 campaign. building on what ross was saying about the similarities between the rise of donald trump in 2016 and bernie sanders, what has changed since then? and how do you see the role of decadence, like ross is describing, in that? >> i think what's changed is we have had several intervening

years of donald trump. and i think for the democratic party, i agree completely with what ross is saying in the sense that the democratic party as a party vehicle is pretty meaningless. what you have is a bunch of people in some institutions that don't necessarily have is a lot of power anymore, but i think there's a motivation amongst democrat cans, a very strong motivation to ebb sure they find a way to come together and beat donald trump. so in that sense, the kind of skepticism that you still saw around donald trump even lingering into the spring and summer of 2016, i think if bernie sanders becomes the p presumptive nominee, the motivation that democrats feel to beat donald trump. i do think that changes important. but i think the dynamic at play here, what's fueling sanders, how he's able to get out there and paint in very bold strokes, whether you like it or not, that

bares a lot of similarity and a lot of the appeal of bernie sanders comes from that. >> we're talking big, important, political themes here. let's get more specific about where you are. joe biden has been the leader in the state of south carolina. he's implored people to be patient with him to get him to south carolina. he knows he has to win. but bernie sanders has crept up and nearly tied him in some of the polling there. what do you expect to see tonight? >> i expect to see a democratic field that's going to be laser focused on trying to get bernie sanders to make a mistake or to say something to hurt his momentum going into super tuesday, going into the south carolina primary. i have been talking to people all week here. what i see are several different divides. there's a generational divide that we have talked about with bernie sanders leading mostly among 18 to 29-year-olds, who think their lives need a radical change and the revolution that

bernie sanders is talking about includes a lot of things that black and brown people here in south carolina where black voters make up the majority of the vote, they lives need to be changed by that. and people who are older say i like joe biden because he's a statesman. i like him because he's someone who calls barack obama my friend barack. apart from the generational divide, what i picked up on is a divide among people who want to see a fighter. people who used to support joe biden who said i haven't seen him get in the mud and defend his family. that's made me question whether or not joe biden is up for this fight. they see bernie sanders and this is osomeone who even if i us don't agree with his policies, he is going to be able to put up a fight with president trump and that's why we're seeing that. and tom steyer, the billionaire, he spent millions here. he's been able to take some of the support from joe biden. so we're also going to see tom steyer try to go after joe biden and make the case he can be an alternative to joe biden, who is

though he will win the primary here. but by a narrow margin. not by what we saw in nevada. >> you have had a lot of practice at this level of politics dealing with governor romney in debate prep. what's your thoughts on one candidate tonight who has to take out her opponent right in front of her. that would be elizabeth warren and her opponent bernie sanders, yet the odds are she will go after michael bloomberg, who is not even on the ballot. >> this has been a really interesting dynamic. because usually it's the case when you have two people who seem relatively similar, you have to figure out a way to draw distinction and go on the attack. we haven't seen that. we have seen warren has been shill for sanders. which suggests maybe she thinks she's a vice presidential possibility for sanders. maybe she wants to stay in his

good graces. but it makes no sense to go after michael bloomberg, who i don't think occupies any similar space. i don't think in this race is where she needs to be. so what i'm puzzled signaling f campaign suggests she will do that. conventional debate tactics, you go after the frontrunner. >> and that is curious that she has not gone after bernie, like you, i don't suspect she will do that again tonight. ross, i was thinking while we were all talking about some tweets i saw yesterday or the day before and it had to do with how things actually even in these chaotic days and polarized days for at least the political class, how things are getting better, how abortion rights continue to decline and have for a long time, how crime has been declining in the past 10, 15

years, how teenage pregnancies declining. there are of course world poverty at an all time low. there are, if you could just get rid of the entire political class. >> bernie and trump are working on that. >> and of course cable news and talk radio and the internet. a lot of people would say these really are the best of times. so when you talk about decadence, again, it is not even societal, is it? is it more political or -- >> i mean, the political, decadent, when i talk about deck a dense, the part everybody recognizes washington, d.c., gridlock, stalemate. but the indicators you're talking about are a good example of what i mean. 30 years ago, teenage behavior was worse than it is today in

many ways. people were more likely to drive drunk, more likely to have sex early, more likely to get pregnant and so on. today, teens are better behaved than ever, but they're more likely to be depressed, more likely to commit suicide, and more likely to spend their lives on their phones playing video games. that's the trade off of decadence. it is a safer thing. it is more stable. your kids are less likely to go down by the reservoir, get drunk, jump into the reservoir under decadence, they're more likely to be in their rooms, tapping on their screens, talking to their friends. and there are worse things than that. but there are also better things than a world where people are sort of retreating into the virtual. that's the big story of the western world. that's where the technological progress is, all in virtual realities, and we're retreating into them, becoming safer, maybe not becoming happier. >> i still remember it had to be

20 years ago or so, it was the 30th anniversary of "rolling stone." tom wolf wrote an essay, said it is not lost on me the most affluent generation in the history of mankind is also the most medicated, which seems to line up with your thesis, right? >> yeah. we're in an age of people taking drugs, legal and illegal, that are numbing. it is not the age of the crack epidemic and cocaine and people taking drugs that make them more likely to be violent but maybe also more likely to be creative, it is the age of opioids, marijuana, people taking drugs that sort of numb pain and let them slip away. and again, that stabilizes things. america is for all of what's on twitter and all of what's on cable news, it is definitely a more stable country than it was when we were going to the moon in 1969 and everything was in

chaos. but it's also a less dynamic and more i think decadent society than it was when we made that leap. >> the new book, the decadent society, how we became victims of our own success. thank you so much. lanhee chen, thank you as well. love to have you on the show. up next, tributes to legend kobe bryant at yesterday's public memorial, including how he was remembered by his wife vanessa. we're back in two minutes. th sc: ♪ you can earn more when you invest your cash. you can get a satisfaction guarantee. you can also wonder why our competitors don't offer that. ♪ schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. ♪ ♪you got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive♪

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i will be sure to teach them your moves, i promise i won't teach them your froee throw techniques. for now, i take comfort in the fact as we speak, kobe and gigi are holding hands walking to the next basketball court. kobe, you're heaven's mvp, i love you my man, 'til we meet again, rest in peace, kobe. >> he wanted to be the best basketball player that he could be. and as i got to know him, i wanted to be the best big brother that i could be. now he's got me. i have to look at another crying

meme. when kobe bryant died, a piece of me died. and as i look in this arena, across the globe, a piece of you died or else you wouldn't be here. those are the memories that we have to live with and we learn from. i promise you from this day forward i will live with the memories knowing that i had a little brother that i tried to help in every way i could. please, rest in peace, little brother. >> he was so easy to love. everyone naturally gravitated towards them. they were funny, happy, silly, and they loved life. they were so full of joy and adventure. god knew they couldn't be on this earth without each other.

he had to bring them home to heaven together. babe, you take care of our gigi. and i got nani, bibi and coco. we have the best team. we love and miss you, boo boo and gigi. may you both rest in peace, have fun in heaven, until we meet again one day. we love you both and miss you forever and always. mommy. >> those are some moments from the memorial yesterday in los angeles for kobe bryant. that's his wife vanessa, of course. before that, saw long time teammate shaquille o'neal and michael jordan, vanessa bryant showing incredible heartbreaking grace, poise, and strength

through that speech. i said it earlier, to see michael jordan up there, greatest basketball player that lived and kobe's hero, his absolute hero stepping up there, saying of him when kobe died, a piece of me died, it was an incredible day. >> an incredible day, incredible moment. any parent would recognize the elegant sadness of what she spoke to, loss of her husband and a daughter, no parent ever wants to endure that, and the global impact of her husband's death has been immense. just immense. >> what an example of strength just to have suffered such an unimaginable loss. i can't imagine what it would be like to lose your child and your husband on the same day and to stand up like that. i think vanessa bryant is giving a lot of people a lot of strength, it really moved me. i am a crier, but wow.

that was very impactful. >> the entire service just made your heart hurt, it really did. seeing vanessa go up there and being so strong and talking at that point where she said god knew they couldn't be on this earth apart, just broke everybody up, broke me up. it just -- what an incredible impact he had on that city, on the world, but most importantly and what we've learned after this tragedy on his family, what a father he was and as we know, that's really the end of the day all that matters. that does it