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i'm ali velshi. we begin with breaking news in the novel coronavirus outbreak. within last hour, nbc news has confirmed that u.s. navy sailor stationed in napele, italy h n tested positive. in all global cases have surpassed 100,000 and about 3400 people have died. there are now 17 confirmed deaths in the u.s., 14 in washington state, one in california and two in florida. the first fatalities outside the west coast. the number of confirmed cases in the united states is rapidly rising. 335 people are now sick in 28 states. one of those patients karl gold man who contracted covid-19 aboard the diamond princess oig recently wrote a piece detailing

his quarantine, diagnosis and treatment. karl goldman is joining me now from quarantine in omaha, nebraska. karl, thank you you ffor joinin we talk about people like you who are in quarantine who tested positive. what is your life actually like? tell us about how this happened, how you determined you had coronavirus and what has happened since. >> sure. thanks. i was on board the diamond princess taking a cruise with my wife as a christmas gift and we had wonderful days of a 16 day cruise. on the last day, a passenger who had gotten off the ship in hong kong had tested positive for the virus, so we rushed back to yoke wh yoke whom ma yokohama which was or port of departure. and the next morning they announced that we would be quarantined incabins for 14

days. so i spent valentine's day quarantined in the cabin with my wife. still not having the vie rurksz but t rous but the numbers were increasing every day. 12 days in to our quarantine, the u.s. state department decided to take 300 of us americans back to the states so we boarded two 747 cargo planes. i got on the plane, fell asleep. two hours later, i woke up with a heavy, heavy spike in fever. woke up with a 103 plus temperature. so walked over to -- we had no stewardesses on the plane. walked over to the hazmat suit folk, one was a military doctor, he put me in quarantine on the plane and then they transported me after the plane landed at travis air force base in california, they transported me over to omaha to the bio containment center in omaha.

and i'm still here in omaha but downgraded after ten days in bio containment, i moved to a lower level of care about three blocks away here in omaha. my wife never got the virus. she tested negative after 14 days of quarantine here is now is back running our radio station. she returned on monday. and i just tested again last night and it came out positive, which is quite a bummer but i'm taking it a day at a time just knowing that at one point this virus is going to leave me, i'll no longer be contagious and can head home. what is weird about the quarantine is i feel fine. i still have a little bit of a dry cough, but other than that -- other than being contagious, i could be in the studio with you. >> you kind of are almost. so i was going to ask you how you're feeling. you're feeling fine. so what has to happen? you have to just not test

positive for a couple tests and then they tell you that you can leave quarantine? >> yes, actually three tests in a row. and the tests are taking a swab and sticking it up both nostrils and deep down the throat. three tests in one, all of those have to come out negative. and they will have to come out negative three 24 hour periods in a row. when i test positive, as i did last night, i now have to wait 48 hours to be tested again. so i won't be tested again until sunday. >> karl, thank you for joining us and telling us about this. we'll visit with you a few times to -- i'd love to be around when you test positive on your third test and you get to leave. so we'll stay in close touch. karl goldman has coronavirus and he appears tos recovering from it 367. joining me now, formerly

baltimore's health commissioner. and also professor at principal son university and chachair of african-american studies. and also of course my partner, stephanie ruhle. she is the senior business correspondent -- knows a lot about business. my former company hos-host. thank you to all of you. and i spent time talking to people critical of the federal response of what is going on. and public health experts tell me that really who we're depending on is local health experts, public health commissioner, mayor, because that is where the rubber in some cases meets the road with respect to identifying and dealing with people with coronavirus. give me your evaluation of how things are going right now. >> you're right that local public health officials are the ones who are on the front lines. we're the ones who see patients

in our communities and are in charge of keeping our community members safe and healthy. the local public health officials have been preparing for outbreaks just like this. this is our bread and butter. this is what we prepare for all the time. together with local hospitals and state and federal partners. i think a lot of things have gone well, but a lot of things have not gone well. we've been talking about the lack of testing which is a major problem and we are bracing for the worst too. because things are going to get a lot worse before they can get better. meaning that we will get a lot more positive cases of coronavirus here in the u.s. and we have to figure out how we can prepare our communities which will include a lot of measures like maybe school closures and changing people's daily routines that are coming out in the coming weeks. >> so eddie, what she is doing is walking an interesting line between the things that would cause us to panic and things that would cause us to not care.

that is the imagine he can line we ha imagine beimagic line that we h. but the federal government seems to be leaning towards complacencyhe can line magic line that we have to walk. but the federal government seems to be leaning towards complacency. >> in some ways we're experiencing their refusal to kind of tackle the issues at the level of detail that the disease requires. >> ie the number of tests. >> exactly. and when you don't tell the american public what they need to know, provide the information that is necessary, we'll fill it with our fantasies or our fears. >> our bad information that we get on the internet. >> exactly. so what you get are people who are thinking that we're on the press sis of precipice of zombies or they shouldn't travel. so we just need the government to tell us what they know and what they don't know. and do that every day until we -- >> on a regular basis with the

authority that we just heard. stephanie, one thing you and i special liz ize specialize this is how this manifests. one way is the stock markets. you make decisions. and it goes to every level of our lives you including the choices we make about staying home, working, going to shopping mall, movie theaters. and in fact for a lot of americans, that choice is not as easy as you think it should be. >> we've talked for the last three years about how many millions of americans don't have $400 in case of an emergency. and this is that emergency. the president has been talking about the dow more than dow 30 ceos have. just yesterday, elon musk tweeting panic is dumb. i don't disagree. but where you stave that off, at the top. and this is the first time where we're facing a potential crisis

whether ebola or sars, there are no trusted voices at the top. is this a preside this is a president who has told mistruths, lie, for yesterday. just yesterday, touting his natural ability as a medical expert. >> maybe she somewhere done tha instead of being president. but a lot of americans may agree. >> sure, he is discounting what health experts have said and dismantled agencies that are in place to protect people. so a the a time like this, ask yourself, who is the person inside the administration who business leaders are connected to and are talking about what is a reasonable response. for everyone saying businesses are overreacting with all the cancellation, if i'm a ceo, i can handle my stock going down a ton. i cannot handle people truly getting sick. and so they are looking at the president and what he is saying and are in dismay.

>> so that is really the leadership that we've been lacking. whether sharpie gate or the hurricane or life or death americas and we cannot twrus this administration and now when it is really a life or death administration, we're not able to trust the administration. how do you save this, what has to happen? on? level individuals and companies are making their own decisions. but can this be fixed? because this thing is getting worse before it is getting better and if we are all cave men, we're not -- >> and cave women. >> there it is. i think it is incumbent upon us the media to fill the gap value i'm. we have to continue to put forward the relevant voices that can speak forvaluei'm. we have to continue to put forward the relevant voices that can speak for the fears. and in some ways we have to understand what we have in the white house. this is not the first time that we are experiencing the effects,

the deadly effects of this incompetence. we saw it in puerto rico. 3,000 people are dead as a result. not necessarily of what they did, but what they didn't do. so we know the consequences of this. and we also know that the adults, where are they in no adults in the room. people are just preoccupied with their own political self interests. so i think it is incumbent to continue to put forward the information that folks can conc washington, d.c., but -- >> they put together a coronavirus task force led by t ceo of marriott. >> because he is concerned. >> there you go. >> so let's do that, let's do what eddie says, let's get real information out there. one of the biggest problems is testing. i'm sure everybody thinks that anybody of everybody should be tested. but that is not how public health officials look at

outbreaks. b clearly we need more tests. i've interviewed people that say that not everyone can get tes d tested. so is testing the first thing to get past? >> testing is a critical step that we have to have. not everybody needs a test. i don't want every single person in america to think that they need a test right now. but people with risk factor, people who come in with symptoms, they do need testing and they don't need testing with results that come back three days later. they need the results to come back that same day. so that doctors and nurses can make the best decisions about where they should go, how their contacts should be traced. but then we also need a lot more too. hospitals are already overbur n overburdened. health care workers have to be ploekted. there is a lot to can do to pre for outbreaks.

and what do we did with patients who can't afford their health care. >> and won't go to their doctor or mchbemergency room for what t be a cold but they are subject to coronavirus. >> and we know when people can't afford health care, they just go without. and so in this case, they could be spreading an illness. >> markets down 13% from their highs. it is not 9 ethe end of the wor but mohamed el-erian said we don't know how it will affect the world. but on the other hand, larry kudlow saying it is fine. >> let's back it up a moment. when the financial crisis happened, we know big companies snap back. the auto industry, th banking industry. but people who didn't, people would lost their homes. you can say that they can take

it off the table. markets can turn red and green in a flash. but people who are truly impacted, if you own a small business outside the campus of a large he company, and people aren't having lunch there for one week, for two week, you could go out of business. this economy has been driven not by corporate profit ability in the last three years, it has been driven by consumer spending. and given what is going on around the coronavirus, people aren't spending. i would note one other thing. just about people around the president telling the truth, getting right information to the american people. do you remember what happened last night? the president fired mick mulvaney. the president at this point is surrounded by true trump loyalists. in the midst of the coronavirus, the president at the cdj whi cde mulvaney wan annual trip with hs

brothe brothers. but he has been saying to the president we cannot say this, this is what is most responsible. >> and that will stop. >> and the president doesn't want to hear that he can't say what he wants to say when he is told that, he says bye-bye. >> thank you for the conversation. while you and i where both on tv, can we clarify a koocouple things? people say did you and stephanie have a fight. >> we did. this guy is -- this man takes som so much time in their and makeup, you have no idea. >> thank you, my friend. thank you, why. dr. wen. and eddie, thank you for your debut on this show. still ahead, why bernie sanders is taking aim at joe biden over an near and dear to the heart of democratic voter, social security. voter, social security

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no matter who the eventual nominee is, social security should be a major issue in upcoming election. and it is facing serious financial difficulties. social security is made up of two trust finds. and its trustees say is this year for the first time since 18 1982, the cost which is the yellow line will exceed its income which is the green line. which means that they will have to dip into a reserve fund to make until shortfall. except the reserve fund is expected to last only 16 years. the old age and survivors fund which makes payments to rye t ss and surviving spouses is expected to be depleted by 2034

and without action from congress, recipients will only get about three quarters of their expected benefits. there is a little good news. the trustees say the other fund, the disability trust fund, is not expected to run out until 2052. but obviously that still needs a fix. joining me now, a senior adviser for the bernie sanders campaign. david, thank you for being with me. this is an issue that bernie sanders has started to make in fact he tweeted out here is the deal, joe bidens that repeatedly advocated for cuts to social security. i fought my whole career to protect and expand it. biden responded saying get real, bernie, only person who will cut social security if he is elected is donald trump. maybe you should spend your time attacking him. tell me what is going on here. >> so joe biden has for 30 years push the for social security cuts. that is a fact. he actually brags that he has

tried to freeze funding for social securities. 2007, he saiy cuts should be on the table, he's push for raising the retirement age. he's taken the argument that the way to shore up social security is to cut benefits. he is that worked wi has worked with republicans repeatedly. but bernie sanders says you need to wraz traise the payroll tax we can protect social security and expand social security. and one more point, bernie sanders while joe biden was on the floor of the senate pushing, bernie sanders was pushing to block the cuts. >> and so joe biden was on "morning joe" on january 22 and he said that he would not make cuts to social security if he were president despite his past comments. and he calls for putting social security on a path to long term

sole venls civency by asking am with higher wages to pay the same tx taxes on their earning. so does the new joe biden move you at all? >> well, the problem is that mitch mcconnell has told reporter that's he wants to work with the next democratic president to cut social security. that is what he told bloomberg news. and so the question for voters is whether you think a person who has spent 30 or 40 years pushing for social security cuts, wanting to work with republicans to cut social security, whether you think that person as president all of a sudden when the senate republicans come to them as president and say they want to cut social security, whether that president is sudden pli going to say all that 30 or 40 years that i pushed for social security cuts, i'll just throw it out the win de. t window. the question is where george w. bush will ma joe biden will make a deal with

the purcharepublicans. >> and there is a reporting that one thing that the sanders campaign can do a better job of, articulating the cost of these programs. while everybody would like a president to say there will be no social security cut, buts some has gone to change. you talked about biden pushing for the increase in age of when people receive benefits. that is a solution that some people have put forward because at the moment something has to change. what is the change that has to happen if you want to preserve and there, or p and/or preserve payments? >> and the answer is what bernie sanders has been pushing, to lift the payroll tax cap. right now payroll taxes stop applying for income above 130,000. so a ceo making $30 million pays the same payroll taxes into the

social security system as somebody who makes 13 thousand dollar dollars. >> and joe biden agrees with you on that. >> and biden has all of a sudden said that he now supports what bernie sanders has been pushing for a very long time. i mean, bernie sanders pushed -- has been pushing this for years and years. so again the question is not whether joe biden has appropriating bernie sanders policy. the question is whether i think a person who has worked with republicans over and every and over to try to cut social security, whether you think that person if that person became the president would suddenly after 30 or 40 years under pressure would suddenly not work with republicans for that. what we know is that bernie sanders has never worked with republicans to try to cut social security. he has always from the time that he got into congress in the early '90s, he has been one of the co-sponsors of legislation to protect social security and

block the kind of cuts that joe biden has been pushing for years. >> david, thank you for joining mee me. an important conversation. please join me regularly on the show. >> absolutely. up next, the trump administration's response to coronavirus, i'll talk with david shulkin wserved as associate of veteran affairs. ed associate of veteran affairs chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery.

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through interviews with dozens of public health officials, we could only verify that 1895 people have been tested for the coronavirus in the united states. local officials can still test only several thousand people a day, not the tens or hundreds of thousands indicated by the white house's promises. and it is true that more private labs not just the cdc can now run tests. but there are growing concerns about the potential strain on the u.s. health system. not to mention the 28 million americans without insurance who do the right thing, get tested and then face medical bills that push them further into poverty. even those with insurance might a void testing because of potential out of pocket costs. more than half american adults have put off health care because of costs. more than a third said that it was difficult then to pay

deductibles and new tiyou and n have free testing. joining me now, author of a great book called it shouldn't be this hard to seven your country. a d dwr shulkin, lot of ways in which you have seen this. what should leadership slook like from the federal government. we're stuck in a world where we're googling about coronavirus and the good information is not nearly as salacious as the bad information and panic sets in. >> i try to take my advice from health dare professicare politicians. so going to credible sources is a good place to start. and you know, my primary concern is for the safety of the public. is i don't think now is the time to do finger pointing.

but i think that we do have to stick to the facts, get the right information and make sure that people are making good decisions based on kt if as afat fear. >> so the first information people need is good testing. sounds like by the end of next week we'll have a million test kits out there. how do public health officials think about testing? not everybody gets testing. that is not efficient. but we need good testing to figure out how many people are carrying coronavirus. >> yeah, i think the fact that we haven'ted a good access to testing toed a adequa adequate set us back and people are making up information because we don't have the figures. so getting access to the tests i think is a game dharng. but i think that people werenar talking enough about screening. there should be good screening with asking people the proper questions, checking temperatures -- >> before an actual swab or

something. >> that's right. and some physical measures such as temperature and respirations. so i think with adequate screening we can use testing in a sensible way and actually have data to be able it make fact based decision making so that we're not having some of the overreactions that we're seeing in the community. >> you've ran the v.a. and a private hospital group. talk to me about prepare wrags f preparation for if this gets more serious. we could be in a situation where lots of people get it and they go to seek treatment. do we have the capacity in america for tens of you thousands of people getting sick with coronavirus? >> once the testing is out there, there is no doubt that we'll see many more with coronavirus. but we'll find that most of the people have mild symptoms and won't require severe medical attention. i do think with the advent of

tele health that we should be using our technology much more. so people can remain in home and those that are mildly affected don't have to come into our hospitals and our doctors' officers and p offices and put others at wriri. but those who are compromised medically, maybe up to 10% of necessary infected, will writer medic require medical resources. and we've had a lot of capacity removed.iter require medical resources. and we've had a lot of capacity removed. and we're not prepared for a massive pandemic that would require hospital resources. so that is where we too need to work in the public private partnership .swr a. partnership. our hospitals are now much larger so there is capacity. and one of the missions of the

s v.a. is to train for emergency preparedness. and there are authorities in public emergencies that the swr a. c s v.a. can help step in. so i think that we will see mlwe working together in the response. >> and we have news that the chief of staff, latest chief of staff number three has been removed, mick mulvaney. and mark meadows is moving in as chief of staff. and the president has sort of-he's deteriorated that position overtime. at one point chief he have staff has been the most important person in america. but that is not really the case now. so what do you make of in change? >> i of course worked with li

reince priebus, john kelly, mick mulvaney. i think this is the hardest government in job. used to be be to make sure that the president saw the right people and had the right information. and of course we've seen that despite different styles, this is a tough job to do. and it is a job that frankly the president needs somebody that he is comfortable with, but i think most importantly the chief of staff job while they work and serve at the pleasure of the president has to pressure that they really work for the american people. and it is a very critical position to make sure -- >> tricky thing in this straith administration. >> tricky, but it is important that the chief of staff have an important role in being able to make sure that the president has the right information to make decisions. >> david shulkin, thank you for being with us today.

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try neuriva for 30 days and see the difference. . we vnthaven't learned that n the president says look there, we look here. we are bogged down in the minutia, losing sight of the bigger picture. trump named mark medicadows his chief of staff. and does this one mean anything. probably very little. the chief of staff used to be a

powerful job after that of the president, but trump has undermined the position. the west wichk hng has largely purged of anyone who disagrees with the president. and the replacement of chief of staff is juicy, it fult fifills need for drama, but it is not important. who the chief of staff doesn't matter anymore. the position no longer wields power. mark meadows is qualifie or unqualified if he will. he is the chair of the freedom caucus who once said that he would like to send barack obama back home to kenya. ultimately it is a distraction. taking away from the real story, twruchl trump is changing our judicial system, making foreign policy deals just to see them fail in

short order, sometime am puttin medieval immigration policies. those things should hold our attention. and have us outrachbged. so when he says look there, don't. keep focused on the things that matter. naming meadows is a minor league attempt at distraction. if trump was serious about a chief of staff, meadows probably wouldn't make the long list, let alone the short list. coming up next, a federal judge's review of william barr's credibility. y. even when your car is clean, does it still smell stuffy or stale? try febreze car. it eliminates stuffy car odors and leaves behind a fresh scent for up to 30 days. try febreze car in a variety of scents including extra light. (mom vo) we got a subaru to give him some ato reconnect and be together.

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starting small can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. william barr you probably know the name, he is the president's attorney general. he's dub hone his job just the trump wants. and now a republican appointed federal judge is not or

excoriating barr's leadership but questioning his credibility. the judge announced that an independent review of the full unh unredacted report willen c be conducted saying there were grave concerns about the process and the in-z can insiconsisteni the court to request whether william barr made a calculated attempt to influence the american public. i've said it before and i'll say it again, maya angelou said one someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. barr has lied for the american public several times. can we put hope in his integrity? the justice department has waved off the opinion saying the court's assertions were contrary

to the fachktts. barr is not a man to stand none defense of our institutions. his actions suggest that he he trump's attorney general, not ours. and joining me now, barbara mcquaid. she has school. barbara has testified before the house judiciary committee in june after concluding that the report quote constitutes multiple crimes of obstruction of justice by trump. david corn joins us as well, the washington bureau chief at mother jones and author of "russian roulette," the inside story of putin america and the election of donald trump. i have my trusty copy of the mueller report which was autographed by you because you helped us cover the whole story. the story behind the story here is that this went to bill barr before it went to congress and the public. and it was three or four weeks before we got the real story and in that three or four weeks, bill barr spun a tale about what was in this report that didn't

turn out to be the truth. >> yeah, and it's nice to see a federal judge calling him out for that. there's certainly some outcry about it at the time, but i think william barr and donald trump were very successful in spinning this doumt cument to ta tale it just doesn't tell. they repeatedly said it tells a tale of no collusion, no obstruction. if you read the report, it is contrary to that. he thought barr's representations were misleading, and we have a judge saying exactly that. he uses words like distort, misleading, lacking credibility, lacking candor, and so because of that, he is compromised the credibility not only of himself but of the department of justice. >> and let's just david, let's listen to what barr said at that press conference last april that sort of set this in motion. >> there was, in fact, no collusion, and as the special counsel's report acknowledges,

there is substantial evidence to show that the president was frustrated and angered by his sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, the white house fully cooperated with the special counsel's investigation. the deputy attorney general and i concluded that the evidence developed by the special counsel is not sufficient to establish that the president committed an obstruction of justice offense. >> so david, as my viewers are watching that, i don't know if their eyes went to the top left of the screen where the date was. it was april 18th of last year. it was weeks before everybody else got the story, you had been one of the first people to write about the story about russia and the president of the united states. you're listening to this press conference. there's no way you would have had this document that i've got in my hand, the mueller report, what did you think? what happened in your mind? because what happened to you happened times a billion or 6

billion people around the world. >> well, it was unprecedented to begin with, to have an attorney general come out and say, this is what the report says, and you're going to get it in a couple of weeks. that isn't what happened in other, you know, similar cases like the iran contra report. it came out the day it came out and the white house the reagan administration, bush administration, they were able to comment on it at that point in time but we had the paper, we had the 500 pages in front of us, so this was unprecedented to begin with. now we know when he said the white house fully cooperated that was a complete and utter lie. donald trump would not sit down with robert mueller. he would only answer limited, not all but limited number of written questions, and as i and others, mother jones have reported, it looks like he even committed perjury or lied in some of those answers. that's something that should be looked into but one of the many things that won't be. so the whole thing looked like it was rigged to use a favorite word of donald trump here, and

put in the context, since then, barr has given two speeches which he has essentially said progressives and the left are trying to destroy america and conservatives have to do everything they can to prevent that from happening. he's not an honest broker here. he's in favor of donald trump, and he's actually leading what he sees as an ideological war between democrats and progressives and liberals and the rest of america. you know, it's completely unfair and unbalanced. >> but barbara, let's take him at his words, let's say bill barr believes that, the progressives on the left are trying to destroy america and it's up to republicans to try to defend that, what bill barr has done several times as attorney general does not indicate that his priority is in preserving the institution of the department of justice as a body with some independence. it is a branch of the executive, but it is -- there are issues about this that make people say that bill barr is acting in donald trump's interests rather

than the country's interests. so two questions to you, number one, is there any consequence to this even if the judge finds that bill barr did something wrong, and two, there's a bigger issue here about protecting the institution. >> absolutely, when you're the leader of an organization, job number one is to protect the mission of the organization and william barr clearly sees himself not as protecting the department of justice or the public but as serving president trump, and that is consistent with those speeches that david has referenced. he has this view of a strong unitary executive that the president is the leader of the entire executive branch and in that way, there is no independence for the department of justice, since watergate, we have had a tradition in this country of making sure that the department of justice is not only independent but it is perceived as independent because otherwise it undermines its ability to be effective in this country. >> thank you to both of you for joining me this morning. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid and david corn is the

washington bureau chief for mother jones, the author of russian roulette the inside story of putin's war on america and the election of donald trump. and a.m. joy, kathleen and her take on how the trump administration is handling the coronavirus outbreak in the united states. s handling the coronavirus outbreak in the united states. and now, introducing new boost women... with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you. i wanted more from my copd medicine that's why i've got the power of 1, 2, 3 medicines with trelegy. the only fda-approved once-daily 3-in-1 copd treatment. ♪ trelegy ♪ the power of 1,2,3 ♪ trelegy ♪ 1,2,3 ♪ trelegy man: with trelegy and the power of 1, 2, 3, i'm breathing better. trelegy works three ways to open airways, keep them open and reduce inflammation, for 24 hours of better breathing. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems.

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i've rented space. i'll be back to talk to you. a new day and a new dawn, there's a new chief of staff in the white house. >> there's a new chief of staff and we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the show. the new chief of staff has an interesting history as well regarding things like, i don't know, not being sure where president obama was born. >> about my country, told him he wanted to send him back to kenya. >> which would be a nice trip to go, you might be more safe there because you might get an honest assessment of coronavirus. i do want to talk to you a little bit later about the economic impact of this. we talk a lot about the stock market part of it, but it's a lot bigger and you talked about that on your show. >> it's how you live your life and how you spend your money, and how you survive if you're a small business and whether you make a choice not to go to work if you're feeling a little bit sick. there's a lot of americans for whom that's not possible. >> we're going to talk to that around the country. we were going to go to south, southwest, we're doing the coronavirus fist bump. welcome to "am