i'll be back to talk to you. a new day and a new dawn, there's a new chief of staff in the white house. >> there's a new chief of staff and we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the show. the new chief of staff has an interesting history as well regarding things like, i don't know, not being sure where president obama was born. >> about my country, told him he wanted to send him back to kenya. >> which would be a nice trip to go, you might be more safe there because you might get an honest assessment of coronavirus. i do want to talk to you a little bit later about the economic impact of this. we talk a lot about the stock market part of it, but it's a lot bigger and you talked about that on your show. >> it's how you live your life and how you spend your money, and how you survive if you're a small business and whether you make a choice not to go to work if you're feeling a little bit sick. there's a lot of americans for whom that's not possible. >> we're going to talk to that around the country. we were going to go to south, southwest, we're doing the coronavirus fist bump. welcome to "am joy," you have

become accustomed of hearing so much of what you're seeing happening during the trump presidential era is not normal. since we are an election year, you should be thinking hard about what kind of administration might replace donald trump and his team. should we be lucky enough to have a free and fair election. it really matters who the president is, during good times but when things are not so good, when there's a crisis, it frankly matters more. because as a citizen, youment to be -- you want to be able to trust government leaders and trust what they're telling you. we currently are in the mirdst f a global health crisis, boarding on a pandemic, which has no signs of slowing down. it's not clear this administration knows what to do about it or worse, there are signs they are not telling us how bad things really are because they're prioritizing donald trump's politics over public safety and transparency. so here's what we know. so far, there have been more than 100,000 cases of the novel coronavirus or covid-19.

and it's turned fatal for more than 3,400 people around the world. according to johns hopkins center for systems science and engineering. here in the u.s., there are at least 335 confirmed cases and 17 people have died. 14 in washington state. one in california. and two in florida according to nbc news numbers. there are signs that the chinese government wasn't transparent about the spread of the virus there. but here in the u.s., we're led by donald trump who as of january had told a staggering 16,000 lies in his first three years in office per "the washington post." so not exactly super credible to begin with. and now the coronavirus, with the coronavirus, trump started by implying that the entire thing was a democratic hoax. >> the democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, and this is their new hoax.

>> next, he down played the seriousness of the virus saying that he doesn't need to rely on medical experts or scientific research to know the percentage of people who will die from contracting covid-19, he says he's relying on something a bit more personal instead. >> i think 3.4% is really a false number. now, this is just my hunch, but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this, because a lot of people will have this and it's very mild. they'll get better very rapidly. they don't even see a doctor. they don't even call a doctor. you never hear about those people. personally, i would say the number is way under 1%. >> it's just a hunch. trump has repeatedly shared his hunches and false information about when a coronavirus vaccine could be available. and had to be gently corrected by his own experts that the time line is a year and a half. not three months. and here he is at the centers for disease control on friday with his campaign hat on where

he compared the coronavirus test kits to his phone call with the ukraine president, mr. ze llens, you know, the one that led to his being impeached. >> the tests are all perfect, like the letter was perfect the transcription was perfect, right, this was not as perfect as that, but pretty good. >> mind blown. the thing is despite all of that, we know that trump's die hard supporters tend to believe him over anything else. >> i really think it's a hoax. >> reporter: when you say hoax, what do you mean. >> i think it's made up by the democrats. i mean, there are more cases of the common flu than there are coronavirus. >> reporter: so you don't believe coronavirus exists? >> i don't. >> reporter: so the two people who have been reported to have died from it in washington state, you don't trust that that's true. >> i don't trust anything the democrats do. >> okay. so here's the thing, these people who believe trump over

fact, over science, over anything, but him. his twitter feed, that's the truth to them. these are people you go to work with, that you ride the bus with, the parents of your children's classmates and if they don't take precautions against the coronavirus, because they think it's just another trick by democrats to hurt trump, that doesn't just endanger them, and it does, it endangers you. joining me dr. robert davidson, er doctor and executive director of the committee to protect medicare, and kathleen se bebel, former director of health and human services. i'm going to you first, you were also a governor, you have this responsibility of dealing with health care from an executive point of view. what is the danger in the united states right now if you have a portion of the population, we don't know how large that portion is who simply doesn't believe that coronavirus is real at all, and who therefore have no incentive to take any

precautions? >> well, joy, thanks for having me again, and dr. davidson, it's great to join you. i think we're in a very dangerous period. if the president continues to hunch about scientific facts, if he continues to block the scientists from talking directly to the american public, then we are in a world of the kellyanne conway alternative facts, and alternative facts in this case, can be life or death decisions made by people. we need to be able, as citizens, to trust that we're getting correct information. not only about what's going well, but correct information about what hasn't gone so well. we know the united states is way behind on testing. we know that our protocol doesn't make any sense right now about travel, so what we have is people making up their own rules. i get on airplanes a lot to go to meetings. i just had personally two

meetings cancel that have been on the books for months, one in california and one in washington because the employers have decided that they need to limit travel and they're going to make their own decisions. we need to get to a point where we are out ahead of the disease, where we're testing proactively, where we're identifying patterns and then make travel decisions and travel restrictions and travel quarantine decisions and quarantine restrictions based on facts and epidemiology. that's not where we are. so the american public doesn't trust what's going on. >> yeah, and to go to you, dr. davidson, on that matter of testing, here is dr. anthony fauci who might be, you know, sort of the best expert that donald trump has available to him, acknowledging that there actually aren't enough tests. here he is. >> we don't have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going

forward. >> obviously there's a lot of concern in the country. i think what we are doing is appropriate. i'm not happy about the lack of the appropriate number of test kits. that's for sure. >> america is botching the coronavirus testing and the atlantic writes -- in the atlantic on monday, steven hahn, the commissioner of the fda estimated that by the end of the week close to a million tests will be available to be performed in the united states. on wednesday vice president mike pence promised that roughly 1.5 million tests would be available this week, through interviews with dozens of public health officials and a survey of local data from across the country, the atlantic could verify that 1,895 people have been tested for the coronavirus in the united states and 10% of whom have tested positive. what is the danger dr. davidson of just not testing enough people? >> thanks for having me here, joy, it's great to join you as well, secretary sebelius.

you hit the nail on the head. part of our criteria for who we refer for screening, one is the travel piece which to me seems sort of that has been blown out of the water. it's now in the united states, it's not just in those countries overseas but the other is if someone has had close contact with some who is positive for covid-19, the circular logic is if we're not testing anyone, we're not ending up with positives, therefore we can't assess whether your patient has been in contact with a positive. you know, my nightmare scenario in my small town emergency department is one of our three local nursing homes has a care worker that may have been in contact with someone that they never knew and now they are not that sick as the president said, which may or may not be true but spreading it to an extremely high risk population of people whose mortality has been shown to be around 15% across the world thus far. that is our big concern and the lack of testing really is making it impossible to know. >> and let's talk about donald trump specifically.

he seems to be kind of biggest impediment to getting real information out. there's a combination of his own posturing to try to bolster the economy and make sure people don't panic in the economics say good for him, obviously, and the people around him feeling like they have to genuflect him rather than be honest. here's donald trump at the cdc on friday, and this is about the people who are stuck on this cruise ship, americans stuck on this cruise ship where they're having test kits, a few of them sent to them. this is what he is saying about whether or not he wants hthem t get off the ship. >> they would like to have the people come off. i'd rather have them stay. i would rather, because i like the numbers being where they are, i don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. i like the numbers. i would rather have the numbers stay where they are, but if they want to take them off, they'll take them off. if that happens, all of a sudden your 240 is obviously going to be a much higher number, and

probably the 11 will be a higher number too. >> if your mind is not blown enough is that the numbers will be higher if they get off, not that the people are safe, let me go to item number two, here is the director of the centers for disease control, and this is what dr. robert redfield was doing rather than telling us the facts we need to know about coronavirus. take a listen. >> first, i want to thank you for your decisive leadership in helping us put public health first, i also want to thank you for coming here today, and sort of encouraging and bringing energy to the men and women that you see that work every day to try to keep america safe. i think that's the most important thing. >> rather than give my own comments, sam steen tweeted it's tough to decide what the worst part of trump's cdc, keeping sick people on a ship, lashing out at the governor, being preoccupied with the ratings he got on fox for his town hall or saying anyone can get tested when they can't, kathleen

sebelius, your witness. >> well, joy, i think that dr. hahn said that we should pay tribute to the men and women at the cdc, and i could not agree more. it's a terrific organization. but something went very wrong. we need to understand what it was because there was lots of testing done for h1n1 in a very professional way. lots of kits made. lots of testing done during the zika outbreak. we know that went well. something went very wrong in the last month or so and so the united states is way behind where other countries are. we need to understand that. and understand what they're doing to fix it and it isn't about president trump bringing energy. president trump needs to get out of the way, let us understand where we are, and what is really on track with the kits because you have a ship full of folks, they have only tested, if i understand it, 21 people or they

have confirmed 21 people but they have tested a fraction of the population. clearly they could test quickly and get people off the ship who are not susceptible to the disease, who are not carriers of the disease, and then get the folks who are into an appropriate situation, but to have donald trump suggest somehow that we can't count because they're on a ship and not on u.s. soil is idiotic. you want to get out ahead of the virus. you want to search for the disease. this isn't about keeping the numbers low. it's about an accurate report of how fast it's spreading, where it's spreading. we know that, i think we're up to 30 states with confirmed cases but how many other states actually have cases that haven't been confirmed. where is it? where are the hot spots, how you get ahead of that. we need to count actively and proactively. >> very quickly, i want to play a sound bite first,

dr. davidson, i remember in local news covering what they used to call the sick cruise ships, have an illness break out on the ship and travels around the ship. isn't being on a ship more dangerous, that kind of a cruise ship environment if there is some sort of a virus spreading? >> yeah, and i think they showed that with the other ship in asia, getting people off the ship was the best way to kind of mitigate the spread of the virus. yeah, i think, again, the testing regime has failed, on the front lines we know, i have been a dock for 20 years, and the committee to protect medicare, the docs on our team, we know what to do if we're given the proper information. the cdc knows how to get the information if the tests are available. i agree, we just need the politicians to get out of the way and let us do the work we know how to do. >> dr. daifldsvidson, i want to you to yourself. you mentioned medicare, what about medicaid, this administration is in the supreme court trying to get rid of the affordable care act which expanded health care to almost

30 million people, mainly by expanding medicaid. here is you confronting the vice president. >> i'm an emergency doctor, i'm worried about the plans they talked about last week of maybe cutting medicare and then the rollout today of cutting medicaid. i work in one of the poorest counties in michigan and my patients depend on expanded medicaid. how is that going to affect my patients? >> actually, when i was governor of indiana, we got a waiver from the obama administration that allowed us to expand medicaid coverage in the state. >> now they're talking about scaling back the medicaid expansion that we got with the affordable care act and that 680,000 in michigan, 680,000 in iowa, a lot of people got health care. >> expanded coverage in indiana. >> i'm talking about the president and your administration. >> did you ever get an answer from him about why they think it's okay to cut medicare and really destroy medicaid expansion by getting rid of the

affordable care act in the midst of this crisis? >> no answer, just an agree to disagree at the end when he finally said four minutes was enough, but you know, on two fronts, this attempt to cut medicaid by block granting comes to light with this coronavirus impending outbreak. what happens with block grants, the state gets a set amount of money to manage their medicaid patient. it doesn't account for things like coronavirus or the next one or the next one that happens, so when you have an increased need for health care for those individuals your state is left with their hands tied. now are they having to get emergency coverage. most clearly the people would be denied care. the other piece is our small rural hospital depends on those medicaid dollars just to stay around and if we lose that funding, the front line people who could mitigate the disease, the people responsible for keeping the hospital clean, the people, nurses staff, those people will have to be eliminated, further reducing our

ability to manage the crisis. it's critical. >> and you're in michigan. >> and joy, i was just going to say, in addition, dr. davidson talked about both the notion that the block grants which are a future proposal could really harm states that can't expand and can't look out for an impending health need. but also they're in court, as you say, trying to get rid of the expanded medicaid that already exists, the health care coverage that already exists for millions of americans, and what we know is that that will impede the ability of people to go to a doctor, to pay for a test, to get medication when needed so this is really a counter productive proposal. they're fighting about taking away health care from people, and suggesting that we're doing exactly the right thing in a health crisis. nothing could be further from

the truth. >> and think about if you live in a red state that wouldn't give medicaid expansion at all, now it depends if you're in a red state or blue state, you cannot find a rural hospital open because they refuse to expand medicaid. it's a huge issue and directly political issue. dr. robert davidson, kathleen sebelius, thank you very much, appreciate you both being here. coming up, the economic side erve effects of the coronavirus. ve effects of the coronavirus hey there! kelly clarkson! what're you doing on our sofa? what're you doing on your sofa? try wayfair. you got this! woah. yeah! let me try! all alright, get it! blow it up! that's what i'm talking about. except that's my seat, so. all right, so maybe after the movie let's talk about that bedroom of yours! when was she in our bedroom?

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i believe the economy is fundamentally sound. even getting stronger through the winter months, excludeing the virus problem. we'll talk about it in a moment. economic problems are going to be temporary and short lived, the virus is not going to last forever. human side, a lot of difficulties there, i get that, i understand that. but still, we have a strong economic base. >> there are no bombs falling in

baghdad, the white house is scrambling to ease economic anxiety. just this week, multiple music festivals and public events drawing large crowds have been cancelled including the south by southwest concert in austin, texas, which last year brought in $350 million in economic the fact to the state of texas. airlines like united, delta and american are cancelling several domestic flights, global air travel is expected to decline for the first time since 2009. there are many unanswered questions about what happens to theme parks and sporting events and states that depend on tourism. are we prepared for the economic toll of coronavirus. i cannot think of anyone i would want to talk to more than ally velshi -- ali velshi. we were going to go to south by southwest. >> you were going to stay in hotels, eat food, you were going to use ubers, small businesses

were going to get your money. the waiter who served you was working extra hours because it was going to be where they make their big money. >> poof gone. >> that doesn't come back. >> you don't make up for the south by southwest trip. south by southwest will come back next year but it's not going to come back this year. that's $355 million gone. it has a multiplier effect. the waiter who earned more money because he served you does something with na money that supports somebody else's job. when kudlow said notwithstanding the virus, everything is fine. in april and may of 2018, ben bernanke, and george bush would come out every day, and say the fundamentals of the economy are fine even though we were in a recession, and we were going into one, and the markets were going to crumble. it will not kill all of us off but something is going to affect the people that spend money, and that will cost you your savings or what you do. that's the difference. >> i think the point is too, they are very focused on the

stock market because it's a data point and the jobs numbers, we'll throw those up. they think that data point gets him reelected. >> if the second two jobs get undercut, if they're not driving people -- how many uber drivers do you know it's an extra job, because there's flexibility. everybody has extra jobs. that's backward looking. we'll see what happens in march but look at the number of people for whom the choice is not available. if you and i start coughing, feeling sick. we'll call in. one of us will do the other one's show. we can figure that out. we're employed, and insured, and we can go to a doctor. how many americans don't have that option. they won't go to the doctor because they can't pay for it. get medication they can't afford it. no one to call to tell them they can't be sick. two basic things that the rest of the world has, universal

health care and paid sick leave. we don't have that. and as a result of that, people can't make economic choices. >> initially people were having to pay for the tests, until they went backwards, trying to get rid of the affordable care act. we have a situation as you said, they're trying to delete health care from 30 million people at the same time that they're trying to fight a virus. they can't tell us how many people have. >> every public health official you talk to will say the best thing you can do is monitor tests, have people call their doctors, go to the doctors, use telehealth if you're not covered you're not going to do that. we don't make viruses for poor people. we don't do testing for poor people. people who don't have that information, we can cancel our trip to south by southwest, or singapore or whatever we're doing. most americans have to live, leave their house get on public transit, work with other people, and hope to god that sniffle or that cough or fever isn't coronavirus, and they may not

want to know if it is, so they carry on for a few more days, hoping it will go away, and now they have infected two or three other people. it is a public health crisis for everybody when some people can't get recovered. >> or some people won't. we talked about this in the earlier block. there are people and we played a piece of video, that was not the only clip of trump supporters, who god love them, they believe anything donald trump says. you may have people willfully choosing to check that sniffle because they think it's not true. >> it's a myth meant to undercut donald trump. >> and they go to school with your kids. >> i would love for the connection to be broken between the stock market or the idea a public health crisis is designed to under cut trump. it's not designed that way in iran. we do need to walk a fine line which we do on this show, that lives somewhere between panic and complacency. you can't ignore it, and you don't want to incite panic, you have to have information and when you don't have leadership

that takes this seriously, what you end up with is a vacuum. in the same way that some people make a decision not to go to a mall, a movie, take a trip, people make a decision to take their money out of the stock market. i don't know whether you have a firm hand on the tiller, i'm going to handle my own life. >> one thing donald trump can't control is what business leaders may do. he may want them to go along with the ruse and pretend nothing is happening. their outlook is not about donald trump getting reelected, it's about the long-term economic impacts. >> they're workers, people not getting sick and dying on the job, not coming into work so everyone else gets sick. ceo companies have a different set of priorities. they can handle a loss of sales for a few quarters. they can figure that out. they don't need to defend somebody else's ruse here. it is not going to be good for any company if you get on airlines and get sick. >> look at the cruise industry. >> look at amtrak, also shutting down the service between washington and new york. the amtrak service is probably their most lucrative single

line. >> it's the only thing that pays for everything else in amtrak. >> we're in trouble. i think it's important, they're shutting down some of it. >> they're reducing the capacity. >> they're reducing the capacity, not great news but scaring is caring. >> caring is caring. >> appreciate you. still to come, coronavirus and the republicans. can the party that bowed down to trump on foreign interference survive his incompetent handling of a domestic crisis. more on that coming up. domestis more on that coming up want to start investing? but don't want to spend $2000 for a single share?

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while the country grapples with a massive public health crisis, first lady melania trump has been very busy over at the white house. on thursday as more and more states confirmed cases of coronavirus and testing kits were air lifted to a cruise ship off the coast of california and people everywhere tried hard not to panic, melania tweeted that she is excited to share the progress that she's making on a new pavilion at the white house.

the tweet compete with photos of herself in a hard hat. prompting more than a few comparisons to marie antoinette on twitter. melania responded to the criticism tweeting, i encourage everyone who chooses to be negative and questions my work at the #white house to take time and contribute something good and productive to their own community, #be best. coming up, a sitting member of congress takes coronavirus panic to a whole new level. more "a.m. joy" after the break. l more "a.m. joy" after the break. the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. but now i practice a different philosophy. quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. and now i'm back on top... with koala kai. hey! more mercy.

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members of congress are human pe tree dishes, we fly through the dirtiest airports, we touch everyone we meet, if anyone is going to get coronavirus, fst going to be the people on that floor. >> are you going to wear this every day or just today? >> great question. >> well, if you're not trying to panic over coronavirus, florida man, i'm sorry, congressman matt gaetz is probably not helping, wore a full on gas mask voting for a funding bill, perhaps to protect himself, many selfie lines that might break out among the lawmakers. way to protect that confidence, congressman. well done. joining me now is republican media strategist rick wilson, author of "running against the

devil," the sequel to "everything trump touches dies" a subtle fellow. what do you make of the florida congressman deciding to gas mask because hero's a petri dish. >> one of the things we need to think about in this is there is a temptation in the era of trump to be performtive, to pull off the bigger stunt, and he got what i wanted, the picture, the news clip, he got us talking about him but we're at a point now where the number of cases is increasi increasing gio me t increasing -- we're at an inflection point of how we're handing covid-19 and coronavirus. i think the humor may have been misplaced. >> he's saying the opposite of what donald trump said, this is a crisis, he's projecting an extreme crisis. two residents of his state have died. santa rosa county man, who lives in his district, one of the deaths is in his district, this

strikes me as somebody who while donald trump is down playing the science and down layplaying the severity, he's almost mocking it. >> well, donald trump has spent the week, and you know, his assistants and his aides like kel kellyanne conway on the political side have said it's controlled and contained and promised a million test kits and we have delivered approximately 75,000. if someone says i'm going to pay you a million dollars and only pay you 75,000, you would be a little angry about it. ening the fact that we don't -- i think the fact that we don't have the kits being deployed rapidly is concerning. and the disease is not a laughing point. >> donald trump a known germophobe is talking about whether or not he has changed his mind on the idea of shaking hands, take a listen. >> if there was ever a time to convince people not to shake hands, this would be it. okay. this could be it. you know what i did, you know what i did, i really, i love the people of this country. you can't be a politician and not shake hands.

people come in, when i leave, i'll be shaking hands with people. they want to shake your hand. they want to say hello, they want to hug you, kiss you, i don't care. you have to do that. if i went around, no, i don't shake hands, can you imagine, i'm going to be with a group of people, and they like trump, sir, i don't shake hands. it's over. i don't care how nicely you say it. the bottom line is i shake anybody's hand now. i'm proud of it. >> i have been reading a lot about the 1918 spanish flu. i have been kind of obsessing over it, just the politics of the way the wilson administration handled it, and in that case they continued to gather people in big gatherings and world fair,s and the government side now there was an outbreak, and more people got sick. here's donald trump assembling people into fox news fan gatherings, now he says he'll shake people's hands. he is not projecting as an executive the sense of seriousness or command or what is an increasing crisis. your thoughts. >> you know, joy, outside of

politics one of the things i did a lot of in my career was crisis management, and helping companies and individuals deal with crises when something goes very badly off the rails. the first thing you have to have is executive leadership that tells the truth all the time. no matter how painful that truth is, the way to solve a crisis, manage a crisis is to be direct, candid, to be transparent, open and consistently do that all the time. no one, even donald trump's fans believe that donald trump tells the truth all the time. i think we may have public health consequences that ramify out from there because he can't do anything other than spin on his own accord and doesn't want to take the responsible steps of being fully transparent and not letting the government speak top down, everything goes through mike pence model. public information is one of the greatest weapons we have to manage this crisis, and i'm no epidemiologist, but the idea that you're not having candid reporting at all levels of government right now and a

candid discussion about the things we should do with social distancing and hand washing, all of those things. at a center piece all the time is something we may pay a price for in the coming weeks. >> absolutely. china, that was the problem with china, they were not transparent, and that's part of the reason we are in this spot now. let me play you lindsey graham talking about what he thinks donald trump should do. >> i listen to the scientists when it comes to the numbers, and i would encourage the president if he's going to report things to make sure that the science is behind what he's saying. >> with the republicans having taking the knee on donald trump abusing the powers of his office, what incentive does donald trump have to listen to that guy. why should he listen to anything that any of them say? >> right now it's exactly a perfect point, joy. right now, what we're seeing is the consequences of a president who feels no check on his power, and no responsibility to anyone but himself. and so he's trying to minimize the numbers. he's trying to happy talk the economy. he's trying to do all of these things where this externality

has finally come to get him, and you know what the virus doesn't do, it doesn't follow him on twitter. the virus doesn't listen to fox news. the virus doesn't read breitbart, the virus is coming to do what it's going to do, and just the bs part of it that no one held him accountable for in congress is, i think, again, a failure mode in this crisis, and look, i hope it disappears tomorrow. i hope we find a vaccine and we can rush it in production. the reality is diseases don't do that, and we're going to have a president we don't trust at the head of this for a long time. >> donald trump has replaced mick mulvaney as his chief of staff with mark meadows, one might remember him as a birther, somebody who said he was going to send barack obama quote home to kenya, and as somebody who can't run for reelection in his seat in north carolina because moral monday movement and the naacp succeeded in court at making fair redistricting so he needs a job.

>> right. >> let's be honest. what do you make of his prospects as being a better bet than mulvaney? >> you know, everything trump touches dies was initially a throw away line that i made but it is a law of political physics now, and mick mulvaney's departure was inevitable. he lost power six meadows ago. ma -- months ago. he will say one thing or do one thing the president didn't like, he'll be out. the president will find someone at the bus station and bring him in as chief of staff and again and again and again. >> i think that's an accurate assessment, rick wilson, always great to talk to you. thank you very much. >> thank you, joy. more "a.m. joy" after the break. grab a cup of coffee and wash your hands. always important. h your hands always important i'm your 70lb st. bernard puppy, and my lack of impulse control,

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coming up next, the obama coalition rides again, how joe biden revived his presidential campaign, more "a.m. joy" after the break. mpaign, more "a.m. jo the break. u quit slow turkey. along with support,

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i wonder what the message would be to the women and girls who feel like we're left with two white men to decide between? >> one of the hardest parts of this is all those pinkie promises and all those little girls who are going to have to wait four more years. that's going to be hard. >> when senator elizabeth warren suspended her campaign this week she underscored the stark reality for democratic voters who thought for sure we would

follow our first black president with our first woman president in 2016 only to wind up with donald trump. fast forward to the start of the current election cycle and if anyone would have told you when the field started out as the most diverse in history, six women, seven of color, if somebody had told you this we would go from that to two white guys and tulsi gabbard you probably wouldn't believe them. and if a week ago, joe biden, whose campaign was just about dead on arrival, would be the one to revive the birminghobama coalition. although he was obama's vp. it appears biden is basically reassembling, the obama

coalition tonight, african-american and college whites. it's a pretty formidable coalition. the funny thing is college white voters cycled through several other candidates only to end up at biden when it counted. joining me is the author of that tweet, addisu rks demissie. dina medalis. kimberly atkins. and erin haynes. i'm tempted to start with erin first because it is the 19th. but i want to go to addisue first because i quoted you. if you thought about it in your logical mind you'd think that

would be one of the candidates to assemble the obama coalition. why in the end is it biden who did what he did? >> that was our theory of the case. and i think joe biden had a lot going for him coming into the race, he was the vice president for barack obama for eight years not only did that give him residual strength with african-americans but also name recognition. he's run for president twice, been on national ballots twice, i think it's a big advantage to come in with name regulcognitio. and he's well liked, even by myself who was running a campaign against him. >> i've heard recently, and it's sort of emerging almost as biden's yes we can, we know joe. and there's a cod sell to it joe knows us. i'm hearing a lot say that as

they endorse him. it's emerging as the thing. you know the guy. even if he's not perfect, you know the brand. that's a good point. emily, i want to go to you. when this all started out, if i was looking at it and as i would talk to people, talking to republicans p even going around the country, she in my mind was one of the strongest on paper, it felt like a year when a woman is what the world would want because hillary clinton was denied the election by russia, the electoral college, et cetera. so a woman seems the right thing. she's a woman and a woman of color, she would be the first african-american president, also be the indian american president, has all of this cultural resonance to her. why was she not the beneficiary of that obama coalition? >> we saw a lot of early support for kamala across a broad

spectrum of communities and constituencies, i think there were some real structural disadvantages. being a woman, being a woman of color. kamala is a kind of candidate who has already broken so many glass ceilings, including becoming the ag of the second largest department of justice in the world in california. but the structural barriers were there, it was a large field. at one point we had more than 20 democratic candidates, including two which we are now left with that had universal name id and an infrastructure to build off of. whether it was the obama infrastructure or the bernie sanders infrastructure from 2016 that he continued to cultivate. let me go to you aaron, i don't know if you -- i might have said that to you before, i sometimes forget if i texted something to somebody or not. i might have said to you before it was wild thinking about elizabeth warren, we showed a picture of her, so i want to

talk about her. i can count more women of color, black women, people of color that endorsed elizabeth warren than her sisters, than her fellow white women voters, she had ie yana prezly. deb holland, despite her early challenges with native american identity issues. she had black celebrities. she had that around her more than it felt like she had her sisters. is that a perception in my mind or reality? >> no, i think you're absolutely right. suburban white women were not the face of senator warren's campaign. you had so many black women activists who not only informed the policies that senator warren were pushing during her campaign but who were public surrogates for her in several early states. so i think it does speak to the issue of electability, which

stopped all of the women candidates in the race and the candidates of color in the race. that's how you end up, starting with the most diverse field and ending up with two, old, white men. for senator warren i think -- and for all the women, a lot of women voters were among those saying maybe i would be okay for a woman candidate maybe i would like to vote for a woman candidate but is that something my neighbor would be willing to do, or someone from another state would be willing to do. we're finding out the default voters is an older white man to defeat president donald trump in november, which is what democrats are saying is their priority. >> the funny thing is, that is where it started. when we first started going on the road, that's where we heard it start, even bloack voters

said, only an old white man can beat trump. that's where we started. >> especially given in 2016, donald trump did -- the person that he defeated was a woman, right. so that made women, for some reason, even a riskier proposition in 2020, despite having a historic number of women on the ballot, despite women being a majority of the electorate. >> there was a great interview that rachel maddow did, a fantastic interview that she did with elizabeth warren, i would love to play the whole thing but we don't have time. i just want to play this chunk of it. >> it's that we can't lose hope over this. we can't lose hope because the only way we make change is we get back up tomorrow and get back in the fight. we persist. that is how we make change. and it feels like we're never going to make change until we make change. we were never going to elect a catholic until we elected a

catholic. we were never going to elect a black man until we elect a black man. and we're never going to elect a woman until we elect a woman. so we're going to stay in this. >> kimberly, i'm going to ask you first, as you talk to women, in 2016, a woman president was right there. right in the grasp of american women. women of color in the majority voted for that. said we'll have that, even if she isn't perfect. hillary clinton's sister said, no, we're going to go with trump. then you get a second shot and you've got progressive women have it right there, you know, you have a woman in elizabeth warren that gives you almost the same sort of policy platform, similar to what you get with senator sanders but a lot of progressive women said we're going to go with him. so what are you hearing out there that is causing even women to have it there available and not take the opportunity to have a woman president? >> i think erin hit it on the

head, it was fear. the one overriding sentiment you heard among democratic voters was a fear of making a mistake, a fear of picking the candidate who might not beat donald trump and that cut against elizabeth warren for a lot of reasons. a lot of it was fear of 2016. i remember 2016, there were so many women taking their daughters to the voting booth with them, it felt like it was going to be a moment and then it didn't happen with a reminder hillary clinton did get 3 million more votes than donald trump but it was she lost in the electoral college. so america was ready, a majority of americans were ready for a woman president but despite that historic moment and hillary clinton earning more popular votes than any other candidate ever, the fear of losing to donald trump, made elizabeth warren look less electable. i remember being with you, you polled a room about who they were supporting, it was a

spatter of candidates, including elizabeth warren. but when you asked who would win, not a single person said elizabeth warren. that's the result. that's what we saw, the result is set at a different level for female candidates out of fear of beating donald trump. >> this is the latest poll of democratic primary voters. this is the first time i've seen anybody in the 50s. there he is way over senator sanders. there's a similar idea, massive change is also fearful for people. so now sanders is up against that wall of saying he wants to do fundamental change and biden is safe. >> one thing about women. i want to point out there are nine muslim majority countries that had women leaders. you're behind pakistan, bangladesh. >> bangladesh had in 1960. >> sexism, is -- you can't -- it's everywhere. we talk about racism, but you

don't have panel discussions as much on sexism and how meshed it is in our society. with joe biden, i would not be surprised if this tuesday comes up you see him overperform the polls because it's a fear election and one of the fears is these two candidates left are going to kill each other, destroy each other, before they go after trump. i see there are people who have switched, they like bernie in their heart but may be going for biden because they want it over and focus on defeating trump. >> there is going to be a debate that looks weird for the democratic party. these two older white gentlemen are going to debate each other. when your candidate and emily's candidate were debating against joe biden, they found that he's like a sticky thing, if you punch him, it sticks to you, it hurts you when you really punched him hard, it hurt two of

the candidates of color who tried it. if you're advising bernie sanders, would it be to go hard at joe biden on his record or would it be to wary of that because it does tend to rebound on you? >> well, i think for senator harris and senator booker we found out sort of just how deep the love for joe biden is, and a lot of -- i think that backlash we may have gotten or the stickiness had to do with the fact that a lot of folks believed he was going to win. i heard after the debates, you know, why are you beating up on the guy who's probably going to win ultimately, and i guess they were proven right in that sense. i think senator sanders is in a different position. he has to go after joe biden at this point with the polls having him down in the double digits, he doesn't have a choice but to sort of draw the contrast now and, you know, the nice thing about being in a one on one race, whatever the race is you

know any support you take away from your opponent is going to come to you, whether that's suppressing his vote by not having people come out or switching to your side. i think dean is right, a lot of people are ready for this thing to get on with it. >> emily, he's got the advantage of not being a woman of color. it felt like it hurt -- you know, it hurt kamala harris the most and it's hard to divorce that from the race and gender piece of it, i don't know if you felt that way within the campaign. >> it did. there was a double, triple standard when it came to kamala harris and her responses on the debate stage. not just her, look at other candidates of color. when secretary castro also went after vp biden, it was incredibly inflamed in a way that was not having we were seeing when other candidates were drawing firm contrast with vice president biden and senator sanders. i would also say that senator sanders not only has to

differentiate between himself and vice president biden but he has to show he can build a broad coalition. can moderates, can anybody that currently doesn't fall under the bernie sanders umbrella have a home in this candidacy, i don't know if we receive seen that yet. >> it's emmy, i apologize. erin, there is the question of sense of welcome rolled out. senator sanders himself is doing that, saying he's welcoming warren supporters and pete supporters, but during the campaign, there was a gendered kind of thing that was happening from some of his supporters, the snake emojis, you know, well, the pete thing was rat. there was a causticness to it. and i have to give elizabeth

warren credit she addressed it with rachel maddow, calling it the nastiness. does that reverberate against his ability to coalesce the same voters under him? >> i think that, you know, now that it is down to this two-man race, senator sanders and former vice president biden both have to get on the debate stage. you saw the last debate, the voters were turned off by the acrimony we saw on full display in south carolina, so while i'm sure they're going at each other, it's important for them to make the case to the voters of all the candidates who dropped out as to why they should be supporting either of them and why they do have a home in their campaign. i think former vice president biden has pitched himself as a unity candidate who can bring together the party and the country, and that's something senator sanders has to do more to make a case to folks because that isn't really how he's pitched his campaign to this

point and it's not something that has borne out in the early primary numbers. >> there's ugliness all around, dean i'm sure you hear it, you're listening to people on your radio show every day. it's been towards senator sanders, someone brought a swastika flag to his event, he's jewish american. you had it the other direction at people who support other candidates. and there is that part of it that's gendered seems to invoke a different feeling. >> look, there's some percentage of what they call bernie bros or as joe biden calls them, the bernie brothers, which sounds like a hardware store in the east village. that's the thing about joe biden. if he's the nominee we'll hold our breath for eight months, which might not be bad with the coronavirus going on, but at the same time, there is -- what is real bernie bros and what is expanded by bots, russian or otherwise, or trump-supporting

bots is hard to say. i talked to women who were hillary supporters who said their lives on line were horrible in 2016. bernie has talked about it. i think he has to talk about it more effectively. i don't want your support. if you're doing this, don't support me, go support donald trump. he has addressed it numerous times but maybe there's a way to do that moves people. i'm not saying bernie should drop out at all, he might have a big surprise in michigan, he did it in 2016, but biden gets the obama coalition, obama 2008, 69.5 million votes, trump got 62 million votes. 69.5 million votes. the obama coalition comes out with more voters now, it destroys trump, trumpism, we take the senate. i'm not saying that biden is the one that can do that, but if anyone can get the obama coalition and do that, it's a tsunami of blue. >> to look at the map of

delegates, kimberly, it's tough for bernie. because biden is essentially winning the same way that obama did in 2008. sit, you know, because we have this post jesse jackson era system where it's proportional. once you get a lead it's hard to lose the lead. so biden already has, thus far without california being completely done, 628 delegates compared to 542 for sanders. and you look at the delegates up for grabs, michigan the mother load, bernie sanders has pulled out of mississippi not sure that's super wise. he left the mayor down there really hanging. he's not going to mississippi. but if biden sweeps mississippi, which is 36. and bernie sanders doesn't sweep michigan. he doesn't benefit as much from michigan. >> no. it's going to be a lot tougher. remember, bernie sanders won michigan in 2016. and he still lost, in part,

because hillary clinton totally locked down the south, all of the southern states went for clinton. if michigan is in question and bernie has not seem to -- he expanded in some places, young voters, latino and latina voters, but he has not expanded at all in the south. if he doesn't do well in michigan, he could be really knocked out by the time you get to florida, if he doesn't do well there either. so the map is harder now, in part at the beginning of the race before it was between him and hillary clinton, it was between him and a bunch of candidates who spread it all out and he didn't win as many outright races, he won more plu ralty races. so he actually started out at a disadvantage this year than he did in 2016, so it's only a tougher road ahead. >> and florida is a motherload, 219 delegates. that interview on '60 minutes"

my friends in florida are still talking about it. we'll see what happens. anybody can win if you vote for them. that's what i say to everyone who loves bernie sanders as well as joe biden. anybody can win if you vote for them. and a woman could have won, too, if you voted for them. my thanks to my panel -- don't go in their twitter handles, leave them alone, it's all me. thank you all very much. coming up, during the impeachment proceedings into trump, republicans were obsessed with joe biden's son hunter, why won't the media focus on the nepotism. okay, gop, we'll bite. next. ll bite. next ♪ it's velveeta shells & cheese versus the other guys.

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do you think that the senate republicans or republicans in general would go after ukraine about his son and ties to burisma? >> if you run for president and you were in charge of the ukrainian corruption campaign as vice president and your son is sitting on the most corrupt company in the country while you're trying to clean up the country, that'll come up. >> there's an old saying people in glass houses should not throw stones. if the republicans go after joe biden's son, the democrats may want to turn the light on the white house. it came out this week that jared kushner is selling his stake in a real estate venture that benefitted from so-called opportunity zone tax break that is he pushed for. a year ago his estate was worth between 5 and $25 million now it's been 25 and $50 million.

joining me is andrea burnsteern. it's women's history month, i'm going ladies first. i heard you on tv talking about this. jared kushner seems to be doing the thing that republicans are accusing joe biden's son of doing. what is he profiting from? his time in office has included pushing for the tax break. >> so let's break it down. this firm, kadre was set up by jared kushner's brother and jared kushner and it's an online real estate investment platform. people told me, when i was reporting my book that jared kushner's father was advised by many people, he needs to make a decision, clean break or stay with the company. so he had a middle ground, he did not divest, the most recent

filings were last spring. so last spring he and his wife, ivanka trump were making up to $35 million from passive profits from the companies while working in the white house. so now he has sold this company, which means that he has to declare that there's a potential conflict and at the same time he and his wife, ivanka trump pushed for this tax break which went through with no debate, no hearings, it was page 130, subsection z in the tax cuts and jobs october of 2017. but it's something this company has been directly profiting from and his family company can profit from. that's the inherent conflict and it is going on now, and i should also say jared kushner, he's one of the most powerful people in america, he's outlasted four chiefs of staff. it's not an insignificant conflict or question or a

theoretical question as it was with joe biden, it is an actual situation right now. is he profiting from decisions that he made while in the white house? >> you mentioned ivanka. here's ivanka on her chinese trademarks. the idea, supposedly according to them, the former vice president is vice president and therefore his son gets pulled onto the board, here's ivanka, the same day trump and his daughter dined with president xi jingping. she was awarded three trademarks for jewelry, hand babags and sp services. here's a tweet by her brother, some derided him as the fail son i'll call him don junior, retweeting an rl article about hunter biden. it's almost like the whole biden family is entirely dependent ojo

holding public office. >> yeah, the trump family are epic grifters, this goes back generations. fred trump made his money by intersecting with the federal and state governments in new york. donald came up through new york, intersecting with local government and atlantic city. now they're in the white house and all of them are dipping their faces into the till. if the republicans really want to make an issue out of hunter biden, which is very low hanging fruit that i don't think most democratic voters care about anyway, there is going to be a scorched earth response aimed at all the trump children unlike anything they have experienced in the media. >> could it be from your former candidate, mike bloomberg has a lot of money to spend. >> i think it's important for the american people to be woke about how rampant the financial conflicts of interest are among

trump's children, the president himself, their failure to distance themselves from the trump organization and the deals they've continued to pursue while in the white house, the trump hotel, which has a history between jared and the russian government and his family's struggling finances at the time. all of this will become food for thought for everyone. >> the whole issue with ivanka and china. in china there's a word for the sons and daughters of influential people. it doesn't matter how what our structures are in this country, around the world, giving them money and enabling their business deals is seen by foreign leaders we know this from many, many avenues as a way to influence the u.s. government. that's how they see it. that's why this is a problem and why our own u.s. intelligence

agencies were concerned, for example -- not u.s. intelligence agencies but white house staff were concerned about giving jared kushner security. >> remember the foreign intelligence taps, several thought jared kushner was an easy mark because he was inexperienced and ignorant. >> there's a piece called a bridge to china and her family's business in the trump cabinet. this is about elaine choi who trump hired her husband, they have deep ties to the elite in china. received hundreds of millions of dollars in loans from a bank by the company. rudy giuliani, his son makes $95,000 of your tax money working as a sports liaison, i don't know what that is, but they hired rudy's son.

you can go on and on about the corruption. >> william devos, betsy devos. let's go down the line. >> trump set the tone in january 2017 and said he wasn't going to divest, he was going to give control of his company to donald trump jr. who has the same name as his father -- >> it's how he makes his father. >> so jared kushner and ivanka trump did not divest, it runs through the administration, this idea you can both carry on the people's business and your own private business and -- >> at the same time. >> we know it is highly problematic. >> tile mcgoy, is attorney general barr's son-in-law. he is the white house of general council, he works there. rudy giuliani's son, the special

assistant to sports. kyle yunaska, eric trump's brother-in-law. brett tahley. we could go on, right. we haven't gotten into -- we'll have to have you back to talk about the money that went into the state of kentucky, which is why mitch mcconnell is called moscow mitch. there's lots of fun stuff going on at the white house, i'm sure tim o'brien will tell us more about it maybe in some ads. still to come, as the coronavirus is spreading across the u.s., trump republicans are trying to dismantle obamacare and leave 20 million people uninsured. perfect. more on that after the break. uninsured. perfect. more on that after the break tie. at ameriprise financial tie. we can't predict what tomorrow will bring. but our comprehensive approach to financial planning can help make sure you're prepared for what's expected and even what's not. and that kind of financial confidence can help you

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for all of the record breaking turnout we're seeing in the election cycle so far we were reminded this week that voting rights continue to be under attack. this video out of houston, texas shows the long lines that

thousands of voters throughout the state dealt with on tuesday. with many waiting nearly seven hours to cast their ballots. part of the problem was understaffed polling places and malfunctioning voting machines, but some of it was by design. ari berman tweeted texas closed 750 polling places after they gutted the voting rights act more than any other state. so as we head into the next round of primaries tuesday we'll be watching to see if states are prepared to deal with the massive turnouts and if everyone will have equal access to the ballot, more "a.m. joy" when we come back. e ballot, more "a.m. joy" when we come back. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor

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and believe me, this issue will become more and more apparent to the american people as we deal with this coronavirus. and the idea that there are millions of people in america today who are unable to go to a doctor, even when they have symptoms of this terrible illness because they have no insurance, they don't have any money. and what senator warren has said from day one and what i say is that health care is a human right. >> nearly 28 million americans lack health insurance, a number that has been growing since 2016 as donald trump and his party have worked to dismantle obamacare. even now republicans are fighting in court to invalidate the affordable care act which if

they succeed will mean some 20 million americans losing their health insurance. their latest challenge goes before the supreme court this fall. let me first play donald trump. he did this fox town hall this week and talked about the fact that indeed they want to get rid of obamacare. the affordable care act. and here's what he said he'd replace it with. take a listen. >> it's a great question, very important, health care. i think it's probably the thing that i'm most disappointed that i haven't been able to say what a good job we've done. i haven't been able to sell what a great job we've done. it's better than obamacare and what we have left is the carcass of obamacare or we can call it new health care because without the whole thing with the individual mandate, it's a different ball game.

it's a much different plan. what we'd like to do is totally kill it but come up, before we do that, with something that's great. >> did you understand what he was saying, a, and b -- maybe just did you understand what he was saying? >> no. i mean, honestly what he's trying to say is that he's trying to dismantle this, so once again 20 million people can be without health care and he can get some type of political gain. the biggest issue is even in my home state of louisiana, we have 500,000 people that have health care now because of obamacare. the individual mandate, this whole law issue was -- that came out because, you know, you strike away the individual mandate, so they feel the whole law should be unconstitutional, which makes no sense at all, especially when it comes to people getting preventative health care. you know if you get preventative health care you have decreased numbers of people going to the emergency room that's going to

cripple state governments and cost me so much money. you're going to pay me now or pay me later, joy. and what we have now is better than republicans can put together. >> let me bring someone who might be easier to understand, senator elizabeth warren if her interview with rachel maddow, there's a correspondence now between trying to get rid of health care for 20 million people by getting rid of the affordable care act and the coronavirus. here's elizabeth warren. >> so if we were doing our dead level best and going at this smart, we'd be working on the coronavirus, we would be working on the test issue that you talked about at the top, the vaccines. we would set aside a big fund of money so that we now would let anybody take sick leave who's diagnosed so people can keep themselves inside and try to at least slow down the spread. there's a lot of steps we could be taking. they're not taking them.

>> you know, wendle potter, ali velshi said something so smart. we're lacking two things one is universal family leave, people can stay home if they're sick. and the second is universal health care. in a country with universal health care there isn't a worry you can't be tested and treated, here there is. but it's a moment when people are afraid to talk about disrupting the health system in a way that both elizabeth warren and bernie sanders want to do. how do we navigate that in your view? >> i think this is an opportunity for us to come to grips with the fact that we have to transform our health care system. taiwan is a country next to china, they have universal health care and a system sort of like what bernie sanders and elizabeth warren have been advocating, they're in much better shape than we are right next to china when it comes to dealing with this virus. we over many years have been allowing the insurance industry

to build a wall between us and the care we need brick by brick. and we're in a situation in which not only do we have 28 million americans who don't have insurance, you have even people who have insurance, more than 50 million, probably 60 or 70 million, who are underinsured. and those bricks in that wall by the way are high deductible plans which was a scheme by the insurance industry to boost profits, limiting our access to doctors and hospitals and making doctors beg for approval to get coverage to treat us. this has been keeping us from getting the care that we need. and people even with insurance are afraid to go to the doctor because of what they have to pay out of their own pockets. >> as a small business owner, i love talking to you about this issue, tara because your husband is a doctor and you're a small business owner. from the point of view of someone like you covering your employees, is there more fear of disruption of trying to tinker

with and radically change our health care system, which a lot of people want to do. you look at the exit poll map for whether people like the idea of medicare for all, they like it, right. it's popular with people. but is it more disruptive from your point of view to change the health care system to try to make it universal in a radical push or a couple years' push or the joe biden side of it saying no, add more people by having a medicare option, a public option? >> i use the affordable care act, we purchased plans from the small business exchange, that's one angle. i have a health care practice. we work for urgent cares, we had a medicare aco as a client so i've done a lot of work dealing with medicare directly. and then on top of it, i worked in government. so i know how hard and challenging it is to actually enact or make big change happen. and it's not to say we shouldn't

try for big change but i think people need to understand that a lot of the big changes we've seen across this country historically have been the work of decades and decades of work leading up to that big change. so i think people need to understand that. from a small business perspective and then from a government perspective. i will say what will most likely happen is a public option will be the first step because of the nature of our system. people forget, the whole system, the constitution, the point of it was to make change slow because they feared change happening too fast. and it breeding some sort of oppression from what they had fled from. that was the intention behind our actual republic democracy. so in terms of what i think, i think as someone who's worked in government, i think ultimately you're going to see steps taken. but the first thing that needs to happen is no matter who's elected, is the health care system will improve by virtue of

not having trump sabotage it every day from every angle from the courts, the bureaucracy, the states supporting him, they are trying to break the back of this law every day. so just not tampering with the markets alone will improve things for millions of americans. >> let's put up states that have not expanded medicaid. this is where they haven't done it. the challenge window, you know, with the idea of being able to implement something like medicare for all is that those states have not expanded medicaid because it was rendered optional. the fight over having just obamacare. a lot of states are letting their rural hospitals close because they refuse to expand medicaid, just doing that. how can it be realistic that republicans would ever sit still for a fundamental change in the system when they won't expand medicaid for their own people? >> including my home state of

tennessee which has not expanded medicaid and there's so many people that don't have insurance, much more than neighboring kentucky, for example. that's why you need to approach this at the federal level. the states have done exactly what you described, many of them are not expanding their medicaid programs. you mentioned small businesses. small businesses are struggling to offer coverage to their workers. not only that 57% of the employers are offering cov raj, they're crying out for help as is americans all over the country. they're saying we heard from politicians that we love our private health insurance companies. that's not true. people are saying, in fact, the first 16 states that voted, please take our private insurance companies away from us, give us medicare for all. so you have to at least try to get there where we need to be. and, in fact, it'sachievable. just this week there was a story by the economic policy institute

showing that medicare for all will increase jobs, increase employment and create new jobs. and a statement by an economist was published, several of the leading economists have signed a statement saying that medicare for all is affordable and can get more people into coverage and people can get the care they need. i tweeted about it. so people can see that statement. this can be done and we must attempt it. >> doctor, we called we dr. common sense for a reason, does it seem achievable from your point of view? >> as an er doctor that practiced for many, many years the response of the whole issue of the coronavirus is it should have been paint by numbers but they're making it like they're trying to recreate the sis teen chapel. we know if the vaccine could be disseminated after a year and a half because that's how long it's going to take to get a

vaccine, a year, year and a half, that means a lot of people still would be able to get the vaccine because of obamacare, because you are garn teened if it's a recommended vaccine you would get the vaccine. so we would still be able to protect ourselves from the coronavirus but high blood pressure and diabetes that's what kills a million people in american and they wouldn't get. >> yes or no, is it likely this election pushes back towards a biden or does it go to sanders? >> experts say america wants the public option and medicare for all. i think what happens is steps. even biden wants to get to medicare for all eventually. >> eventually. i went way over time, sorry i like talking to you guys. a federal judge slaps down attorney general william barr. sn attorney general william barr.

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as you will see the special counsel's report states quote it did not establish that members of the trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the russian government in its election interference activities. the deputy attorney general and i concluded that the evidence developed by the special counsel is not sufficient to establish that the president committed an obstruction of justice offense. >> remember that? when attorney general william barr withheld the mueller report from the public and issued his own summary instead? a federal judge all but labeled his actions as a cover up. he issued a scathing ruling accusing barr of putting forward a distorted and misleading account of the findings. joining me now, glen kirschner.

the judge wrote the inconsistencies between the report and attorney general's barr's statements caused the court to question whether william barr caused the public to go in favor of president trump. i know you yourself have filed a referral with the department of justice office of special responsibility requesting an investigation. can you explain that? >> sure. the way the referral process works is any time a federal judge criticizes the candor, ethics, representations that a prosecutor makes to the court. the office of professional responsibility, which is inside the department of justice iso bliged to open what's called an inquiry, which is the first step in assessing what the judge said and whether the judge's criticism is well founded or not. if they find that the judge's criticism is well founded, they move on to the next step, which

is a full-blown investigation to see the level of the misconduct that the prosecutor may have engaged in, and what sanction, what punishment, what penalty is appropriate. >> here's what the response is from the department of justice. this is their response. the court's assertions were contrary to the facts. the original redactions in the public report were made by department attorneys in consultation with senior members of special counsel mueller's team. prosecutors in u.s. attorney's office, and department stands by their work to provide as much transparency as possible. is that credible to you when the actual report came out was so different from what william barr said? >> no. the statement issued is kind of laughable. i was most offended when she asserted what the judge said is contrary to the facts. what bill barr has been saying all along is contrary to the facts. i do not think judge walton is going to take this sitting down

or he's going to back down. let me tell you real quickly, judge walton is something of a lion in d.c. justice circles he was first appointed by ronald reagan in 1981 and reappointed by george h.w. bush. he did that for 20 years before joining the federal bench by appointment of george w. bush. and then chief justice roberts appointed him to the fisa court where he became chief of the fisa court. he's serious, legendary, he's no nonsense. in a battle between judge walton and bill barr, my money is on judge walton. >> my money is on you. keep us up to date on your filing. thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. >> more "a.m. joy" after the break. , joy. >> more "a.m. joy" after the break. more ways than one.

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that is our show for today, "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. up next alex witt with the latest. i literally coughed. >> i heard that. >> sorry. >> i couldn't love you more, but thank you for bringing the cold weather back with you. it's so cold outside today. you've been in warm weather the last weekends. >> i went to las vegas, it was cold, i went downsouth it was cold. i'm mrs. freeze myselfer. >> from a warm heart, though. hi noon just about here in the

east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt". the death toll from the coronavirus rising here in the u.s. the mixed messages the public is getting about how dire the situation is. >> anybody that needs a test gets a test. they're there. they have the tests. if there's somebody coming off a ship like the monster ship out there right now, they would like to have the people come off, i would rather have the people stay. i like this stuff, i get it. people are surprised i understand it. every one of these doctors said how do you know so much about this? maybe i have a natural ability. >> this hour answers to the most googled coronavirus questions. bernie sanders campaigning hard in a state he has three days to win from now. plus the obama factor, how much the former president can help joe biden. but this hour we begin with the coronavirus outbreak as officials confirm two people have died from coronavirus in florida. these are the first virus-related fatalities here on the east co