this sunday, growing coronavirus fears. >> the covid-19 threat is growing across the united states. >> across the country and around the world, northern italy now on lockdown. the death toll is rising, fears are increasing, and doubts about u.s. preparedness are growing. >> i'm not happy about the lack of the appropriate number of test kits. that's for sure. >> this amid concerns the trump administration is not being honest with the public. >> anybody that needs a test

gets a test. >> and is even cavalier about the crisis. >> the tests are all perfect. like the letter is perfect. the transportation -- contraband description was perfect. >> my guest this morning, dr. anthony fauci, head of the national institute of allergies and infectious diseases. and larry hogan, governor of maryland, one of the states hit by the virus. plus, reversal of fortune. >> i'm here to report we are very much alive. >> joe biden's super super tuesday. winning ten states and grabbing the delegate lead from bernie sanders. >> have we been as successful as i hope in bringing young people in? the answer is no. >> four candidates drop out, leaving no women with a plausible chance at the nomination. >> one of the hardest parts of this is all of these pinky promises and all those little girls who are going to have to wait four more years.

>> this morning, i'll talk to senator bernie sanders of vermont. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news chief white house correspondent hallie jackson. republican strategist al cardenas. helene cooper, pentagon correspondent for "the new york times." and matt bai, contributing columnist for "the washington post." welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. we have two stories dominating the news this week. the coronavirus and the run for -- democratic race for president. the coronavirus is spreading around the world in two distinction and interconnected ways. people in more than 100 countries have been infected with more than 100,000 reported cases and with over 3,000 deaths. italy has seen the worst outbreak outside of china. overnight, the government effectively shut down the northern part of that country and extended some restrictions even further. this morning, pope francis streamed his traditional sunday blessings and simply waved to the people in st. peter's square.

if the disease is not yet a pandemic, the economic fallout is. at home, the dow has lost nearly 11% in the last two weeks. some airports already largely empty. transnational companies are training employees how to work from home. and there are growing questions on how well the government has handled the outbreak. at the same time, the swiftness of the change in the political landscape has surprised even the most ardent political supporters. biden's sweeping victories on super tuesday gave him a delegate lead over bernie sanders no one saw coming. four candidates dropped out with three endorsing biden. the remaining contests largely tilt in biden's favor. we're going to get to all the politics in a moment. we're going to start with the coronavirus and the growing concerns over how well the federal government is doing to confront this virus. >> this is a time for pulling out all the stops. >> around the world, landmarks are deserted, from mecca to iran's holiest site, from milan to tokyo's disney land. in the u.s., events have been

canceled. austin's south by southwest, for the first time in 34 years. on friday, the first ncaa tournament game played without fans. professional leagues are considering whether to do the same. >> we play games without the fans? no, it's impossible. i ain't playing. >> the covid-19 threat is growing across the united states. >> more than 400 cases of the coronavirus have been confirmed in the u.s., across 32 states and d.c. at least 19 people have died. governors are asking for more federal help. >> we are the tip of the spear nationally on this. >> this is like the flu on steroids. >> we definitely envision the need to have more testing capacity. >> on friday, president trump visited the cdc, after signing an $8.3 billion emergency funding package. >> anybody that needs a test gets a test. they're there. they have the tests. and the tests are beautiful. >> vice president pence was later forced to clarify. >> if you have reason to believe that you have been exposed to

the coronavirus, i have every confidence your physician will contact state health officials and have access to the state lab. >> an investigation published by the atlantic on friday found only about 1,900 people have been tested for the virus nationwide. federal officials promise to ship 1.5 million test kits by the end of the week. but fell short of that number. then there's the issue of testing capacity. >> the cdc puts out guidance, anyone who wants a test, come and get a test. tell your doctor you want a test. vice president pence says, oh, we can't do the tests. that's the disconnect. >> don't tell us things that are not true. >> not happy about the lack of the appropriate number of test kits, that's for sure. but other areas of the response i think are going well. >> president trump also connected testing for the virus to his own impeachment. >> and the tests are all perfect. like the letter was perfect. the transcription was perfect.

>> and mr. trump said he would prefer not to allow passengers on the grand princess cruise ship onto u.s. soil. 21 people aboard the ship still docked off the coast of california have tested positive for the virus out of just 46 tested. more than 3500 people are onboard. >> i told them to make the final decision. i would rather, because i like the numbers being where they -- i don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. >> the grand princess is scheduled to dock in the port of oakland on monday. >> like being in a little prison cell at sea. >> joining me is dr. anthony fauci, director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases. dr. fauci, welcome back to "meet the press". >> good to be with you. >> all right, so the issue of testing. we heard the president say anyone who wants a test gets a test. i understand that's not quite where we are. are we still under -- are we still on only a few

thousand people have been tested? >> what's happened now is we really are accelerating dramatically. early on, there were some missteps with regard to the tests and some technical aspects to it, but right now, i believe 1.1 million tests have already been sent out. by monday, there will be an additional 400,000. by the end of next week, probably around 4 million. >> what does that mean -- or what about the testing capacity? by the end of next week, what kind of data will you have to allow you to make new decisions? >> there are a couple things about testing that are important that people need to understand. there's testing of an individual doctor, a physician, who wants to know if a person is infected or not. that physician has the # responsibility of asking for the test and getting it. then there's another aspect of testing where you do surveillance in the country to determine if there are under the radar screened a number of individuals. both of those things are going to be going on now at full speed. >> so when do you feel like you'll have a better sense of the scope of this outbreak? >> i think we're getting a

better sense as the day goes by. unfortunately, that better sense is not encouraging because we're seeing community spread. whenever you see community spread, you can do contact tracing, but as more community spread becomes logistically more difficult. >> is it a waste of time almost, -- >> no. >> because of lack of resources? or not? >> that's a great question. there comes a time, chuck, when you have containment which you're trying to find out who's infected and put them in isolation. and if and when that happens -- i hope it is if and not when, that you get so many people infected, the best thing you can do is mitigation in addition to containment. >> we saw the extreme action taken in italy. we have seen warnings, washington state is out there saying anybody over the age of 60 needs to take extra precaution, maybe stay home, don't go to large events. what's the likelihood we're going to have to do more extreme quarantining? >> i think right now, something that's important that i hope the american people appreciate is that the risk of getting into

trouble with this infection, mainly, if you are infected, is overwhelmingly weighted towards people with underlying conditions and the elderly. that's the reason why if you're an elderly person with an underlying condition, if you get infected, the risk of getting into trouble is considerable, so it's our responsibility to protect the vulnerable. when i say protect, i mean right now, not wait until things get worse. say no large crowds, no long trips, and above all, don't get on a cruise ship. >> no cruise ships. how about no airplanes, no trains? where are you on transportation? >> here's the recommendation from the cdc. i feel this way strongly. this would be a recommendation. if you're a person with an underlying condition and you are particularly an elderly person with an underlying condition, you need to think twice about getting on a plane on a long trip, and not only think twice. just don't get on a cruise ship. >> so where are we going over the next three months? are we go to the point -- there

have been different ways. do we need to prepare for a spike? is our job of mitigation to try to sort of level out the spike, which means it will be here for a while, but in a low-level way? what is success going to look like? >> it's going to be two things. it's going to be try and prevent the actual spread. there are a couple ways of doing that. prevent from without and within, the kinds of travel restrictions we impose and even the airlines and others impose upon themselves. and in here, to take a look at what you have. that if you can do containment with contact tracing, great. you don't want to give it up, but also, start seriously looking at this kind of mitigation. they call it social distancing, but it's commonsense stuff. you don't want to go to a massive gathering, particularly if you're a vulnerable individual. >> are we talking church services? are we looking at anything 15 to 20 people? >> the social distancing recommendation? >> again, it depends on who you are. the question is, if you're a vulnerable person, take it seriously, because particularly

when you have community spread, you may not know at any given time that there are people who are infected. >> sporting events? what would you tell the ncaa if they came to you right now? that's coming up, opening day. these may seem superficial to some people, these questions, but part of the economic engine, part of the health issues. what would you do? >> chuck, in realtime, you have to evaluate the situation. if we continue to see the community spread go up, you have to seriously look at anything that's a large gathering. again, i have to underscore, chuck, particularly if you're an individual who has an underlying condition and are vulnerable. >> what's the most realistic way this ends, where immunity is what kills this, meaning enough people get it, and over time, it just stops catching, a vaccine is what ends this, or it will burn itself out? >> it's probably a combination of both. what will likely happen, we're not going to have a vaccine that's deployable for at least a year to a year and a

half. >> what does that vaccine look like? is that part of a flu shot at the end of the day? is that what that looks like? >> certainly not flu, but the same sort of thing. you'll probably go in and get an injection. >> so that's vaccines. >> that's vaccines. that's not today. if this cycles through, maybe even goes down a bit and comes back next year, that's when you get public health plus a vaccine. we hope this just goes away, burns itself out the way sars did. if it doesn't, and it cycles in a seasonal way, that's when a vaccine comes in. >> how uncomfortable is it that perhaps china's authoritarian ways prevent this? meaning had they been a free and open society, this might have spread faster. >> you know, in the beginning, chuck, they were not as transapparent as we would have liked. they were saying at the end of december that that cluster of 24 cases were related to contact with an animal reservoir. that wasn't the case because there was human to human to human going on a few weeks before. if the chinese themselves had

known that, the health authorities, people i know, my colleagues, they would have given social distancing right away instead of having a 40,000-person block party is what they had, unfortunately. >> but their extreme quarantine, has it worked? >> it has. that's not the usual thing you do. their efforts have been draconian, something we would never be able to do here. but even though there are a lot of things that have unintended negative consequences of that, i think it did help dampen what would have been a broader chinese -- wuhan was terrible, but they prevented a bigger spread. >> are you more optimistic this week than last week? >> it depends. now that we have tests out and can get a better handle, but clearly, i'm concerned about community spread. you have to realistically be concerned about community spread. >> dr. anthony fauci, thanks for coming on, sharing your expertise with us. we're all listening. >> always good to be with you. a handful of states have declared a state of emergency amid the coronavirus outbreak,

including right around here, the state of maryland. joining me is maryland's governor, larry hogan. governor hogan, welcome to "meet the press." you heard from dr. fauci. you already declared a state of emergency. what does that declaration allow you to do? >> it gives us a great deal of flexibility to try to coordinate with all of our state agencies, all of the local health departments and emergency management agencies, and it allows us to tap in to a lot of resources we couldn't otherwise do. we also put in emergency legislation to enable us to tap into our rainy day fund. we put in the supplemental budget to provide funding so we can do some of the things we need to do to ramp up and be prepared to protect the people of the state of maryland. >> you have a resource in johns hopkins probably nice to have in the state of maryland. walk me through the testing kit issue, and do you feel as if you have gotten enough support from the federal government? >> we're also the headquarters of the nih. university of maryland medical

system. john hopkins. we're lucky in that we have some of the best health operations in the world located in our state. or right here surrounding the nation's capital. at this point in time, we have the necessary resources. i think we're about to double the number of test kits we have, but this is obviously an issue that dr. fauci talked about, that we have been hearing a lot about, ramping this up as the crisis escalates is a concern among all of the governors. >> you heard him say, he doesn't sound as if containment is going to work. we're probably in a mitigation standpoint, and he seemed to indicate, i gave him every opportunity to sort of give us good news, and he was being very cautious. it tells me it's likely this community spread is going to get worse. what does that mean to you now? >> the governors are really on the front lines. we have had -- look, i think there's been pretty good cooperation at the federal, state, and local level, but this thing is escalating so rapidly. information is changing not only on a daily basis, but almost on an hourly basis. i'm the chair of the national governors' association. we had all of the governors here

in washington a couple weeks ago, dr. fauci, head of the cdc, and a number of other experts came to brief us on the virus. we have been working on this for several weeks. but just in the past week, we went from having no cases to finding our first three positive tests to now we have done 52 different tests in our state, we had the situation of somebody coming from new jersey coming to naerld at the cpac conference. -- coming the maryland at the cpac conference. we have a person from maryland that went to the state of pennsylvania. >> like in the last 48 hours, exponentially grown here. >> we had press conferences we started last week, we did wednesday, thursday, friday. ramped up to multiple different levels and we have ongoing, as we're sitting here right now talking, more things are happening in our state. >> there does seem as if politics is getting in the way of this a little bit. the president even took a shot at a fellow governor of yours on the other side of the aisle. are you concerned it looks like partisanship is being invoked at the top, it will just devolve?

>> i think it's critically important, particularly in any kind of a crisis, i think clear, direct communication is critical. and i think it's really important that you try to take all the politics out of it on both sides of the aisle. this is not the first time i have been involved in crisis communication. right after i became governor, we had the riots in baltimore. being transparent, being direct, keeping the public informed with the facts is critical, and it's not a time to play politics. i sat down with all of our democratic leaders in the state, with both u.s. senators, with our congressmen, our local elected officials, the speaker of the house, local legislation, they immediately passed my emergency legislation in a day to give us the flexibility. i had a long conversation with the vice president last night. i was in the situation room with him and secretary azar, the head of the cdc, on monday. we had 52 governors on a video conference across the nation. >> are you concerned the president may undermine the

efforts of the federal response? >> look, i think it was a really smart move for the president to elevate vice president pence to work across all the different agencies and to coordinate. he's a former governor. he knows the governors on the front lines. he is doing, i think, a good job of coordinating everybody and communicating with us. i think that's the way the messaging ought to go. has the president been perfect in his communication? i would say he hasn't communicated the way i would and the way i might like him to. but i think the rest of the team has been doing a pretty good job. >> governor larry hogan, republican, of maryland, i know you have a tough job on your hands. good luck with it. we're all pulling together on this one. >> thank you, chuck. >> as we go to break, a quick programming note. tonight on msnbc, richard engle goes inside the worldwide fight to contain the coronavirus. on assignment outbreak tonight at 10:00 eastern on msnbc. >> when we come back, we're going to turn to the presidential race. senator bernie sanders joins me next. berty- cut. we'll dub it.

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welcome back. whoever said a week is a lifetime in politics apparently was underestimating things, considering the democratic race for president. joe biden started off as a front-runner. then after kamala harris had her moment in the first debate and sent biden's numbers tumbling, elizabeth warren briefly took the lead and faded just as fast, prompting michael bloomberg, to become a center left hope against bernie sanders, until bloomberg's debate face plant left the surging sanders as the prohibitive favorite, only to see him crash super tuesday leaving, that's right, joe biden as once again the supposed front-runner. it would appear to put biden on the path to the potential winner, but if we have learned anything, it's that this race can change in a hurry. joining me now is the democratic presidential candidate senator bernie sanders of vermont. senator sanders, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be with you. >> before i get to the campaign, i want to start with the issue

of the spread of this coronavirus. what would your response look like as president sanders? >> very different than what president trump is doing. unlike trump, i believe in science. i would not appoint somebody like mike pence to be the head of the effort. pence's record in terms of disease, in terms of hiv outbreak, was not a good one. we have to have confidence among state officials all over this country, and people all over the world. so we need scientists running the operation, not pence. second of all, you cannot have a president who every day is saying absurd things. i mean, touting the fact, i think just the other day, that he is somehow very, very knowledgeable about an issue about which he clearly is not knowledgeable about. we have to work with the entire world, reach out, adequately fund the national institute of health and the cdc. we need regular reports coming from leadership in washington, the state officials all over this country.

we have to make sure that doctors, nurses all over america are protected as they do their job, because if they get the virus, we're going to be totally unprepared to deal with the general population. we don't have adequate test kits right now, we don't have icu units, enough of them. nurses will tell you they have not received the kind of instructions and preparations they need. there's a lot of work to be done. bottom line is, from washington, the american people need to know that there are scientists, there are doctors who are running the operation, communicating with people all over the world, because this is a global crisis. we're not seeing that in washington from trump. >> i just spoke with dr. anthony fauci. i know you know him well, know his reputation well. he said the following this morning. he doesn't think people over a certain age should be traveling right now, particularly not going on cruises. if you have an underlying condition, there really does need to be some self-quarantining of sorts or being careful going into large groups. let me ask you this. has your campaign made a

decision on whether to hold large rallies right now? >> that's a decision, we just held a rally in chicago yesterday. as it happens, we had about 15,000 people out. and what i will tell you, we are talking to public health officials all over this country. and obviously, what is most important to us is to protect the health of the american people. this is an issue, obviously, not just for our campaign. >> right, this is an issue for the national basketball association, an issue for every organization in this country that has large events. all i can tell you is that is an issue we're looking at and talking to public health officials. >> was just going to say, who makes that call for you? if a public health official in michigan says, i know you have a big rally scheduled here, wherever it is, if they say don't do it, you're not going to do it? >> look, we are not going to -- obviously, we're not going to endanger the health of anybody in this country. again, this is an issue that every organization, every candidate has got to deal with. >> let me go to the state of the campaign, and specifically

michigan. michigan was the start of your comeback the last time. how important is it to you this time? >> michigan is obviously very important. that's where i am right now, in grand rapids. we're going to be holding a rally later in the day in ann arbor. to my mind, i think we have a real shot to win here in michigan because the agenda that we are talking about is an t wo working families of this state and furthermore, it really contrasts my views with joe biden's. now that we're down to a two-way race, i think it's clear for the american people to see where biden's record is and where my record is. one of the issues, as you well know, that here in michigan, trade has been a disaster. trade agreements like nafta and permanent normal trade relations with china which forced american workers to compete against people making pennies an hour has resulted in the loss of 160,000 jobs here in michigan, some 4 million jobs all over this country. i helped lead the effort, as you

might recall, against the disastrous trade deals. i worked with the unions. not with the ceos of large corporations. on the other hand, joe biden strongly support these agreements. i think you could look at the campaigns and the people in michigan this, how we raise our money. joe biden has received funding from 60 billionaires. we're receiving money from working-class people all over the country. i think people instinctively understand when you're indebted to billionaires and super pacs, you're not going to stand up for the working families of the country the way you have to. >> are you concerned joe biden can say look at what the obama administration did for the auto industry? and that counters your trade argument. and it is particularly in michigan that that will resonate stronger than some of your trade arguments? >> i don't think so. look, obviously, everyone worked together to try to save the automobile industry. but right now, what you're seeing is in mexico -- >> you voted against that bailout. you voted against that bailout.

>> no, i did vote against the wall street bailout, you're right, because i do not believe the crooks on wall street should have been bailed out. while the taxpayers of this country. >> that includes the automakers. >> i understand, sometimes you have to make that choice. but the bailout was a disaster. my view was the billionaires in the country should have bailed out wall street, not working families. and by the way, wall street got trillions of dollars in zero-interest loans. a direct gift from the taxpayers of the country. that was a mistake. >> i want to get your reaction to something. you were talking about contrasting your record with joe biden's record. joe biden is up with an ad that pushes back at you, particularly on social security. take a listen to it. >> super tuesday, state after state after state called for joe biden. bernie sanders goes on the attack. politifact has called the sanders' campaign's attacks false. negative ads will only help donald trump. it's time we bring our party together. >> i'm sure you know, it's pretty clear i think what the biden campaign is doing.

they're trying to make that any attack you do is helping donald trump. do you accept that criticism? are you concerned that the two of you could overattack each other? >> look, joe biden is a friend of mine. he has indicated that if i win the nomination, he'll be there for me. i have said if he wins the nomination, i will be there for him. together, we're going to beat donald trump, the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country. but you can't -- we live in a democracy. we have to contrast our records and our ideas and our vision for the future. here is the fact. this is undeniable. joe biden has been on the floor of the senate, was on the floor of the senate time after time after time as part of an effort for a bowls simpson, a very bad effort to try to control the deficit. that's including cuts to social security, cuts to veterans' programs. those are the words joe biden used on the floor of the senate. when i say i have spent my life fighting against cuts and to

expand social security, that is a very different record than joe i voted against the war in iraq. he voted for the war in iraq. we have very different records. >> on super tuesday, you have said, when more people come out, you believe you will do well. well, on super tuesday, where we saw spikes in turnout, it was joe biden that did well. you saw spikes of turnout of suburban voters, of african-american voters. we didn't see the spike in turnout in enough places of your voters. what's your explanation? >> well, my explanation is that we won in california. we won in utah. we won in colorado. we won in vermont. i think the explanation is not complicated. the establishment put a great deal of pressure on pete buttigieg, on amy klobuchar, who ran really aggressive campaigns. i know both of them. they work really, really hard. suddenly, right before super tuesday, they announced their withdrawal. if they had not withdrawn from the race before super tuesday,

which was kind of a surprise to a lot of people, i suspect we would have won in minnesota, we would have won in maine, we would have won in massachusetts. the turnout would have been different. but i think what we're doing in this campaign is we're taking on not only the entire political establishment, we're taking on the corporate establishment as well. i'm very proud a year after i introduced this campaign, a campaign which has taken on wall street and the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance companies, you know what, we're just a few delegates behind joe biden, and we have a real shot to win this. >> final question, senator. can you win this nomination without the support of elizabeth warren? >> yeah, well, i certainly would love to have the support of senator warren, but yes, of course we can. we can win this because we're going to win the support of working people all over this country who agree with our agenda that among many other things, the time is long overdue to recognize that health care is a human right in this country, not a privilege.

we must pass a medicare for all single payer program. >> does it concern you one of the hesitations it appears senator warren may have, as she told rachel maddow, is that some of your supporters have been, i think she called it, pretty ugly, said some pretty dangerous things? are you concerned that that is holding her back from supporting you? >> well, i am concerned about the kind of ugliness that exists on the internet and the twitter world in general. it is very ugly. i will not deny for a second that we have some people who claim to be supporters, although i have a hard time understanding why they think they can support me and make vicious personal attacks against people. that's not what our campaign is about. but i have to tell you something. take a look at the stuff coming in to our campaign. talk to some of the african-american women who are in my campaign about the racist and sexist crap they have got to deal with. it's an ugly world out there. i hope very much in the weeks and months and years to come, we can clean that up. >> that is something everyone can endorse. senator sanders, campaigning in michigan this morning, thanks

for coming on and sharing your views. stay safe on the trail, sir. >> thank you very much. when we come back, how good a job has the trump administration done in combatting the coronavirus? panel is next. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix.

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faster speed, coverage, and free advanced security at an unbeatable value. get the xfi gateway and download the xfi app today. welcome back. the panel is here. matt bai, contributing columnist for "the washington post." helene cooper, hallie jackson, and al cardenas.

happy first wedding anniversary, sir. we took note of the day. thanks for spending it with us. i'm sure ana will give me a hard time about that. i want to show this map. last sunday, this was the state of what we thought were reported cases of the coronavirus. one week later, here's where we are. hallie jackson, inside that white house -- >> yeah. >> this is not a surprise to everybody involved in the task force, but it's something the president seems to be in denial about. >> i have been talking to sources over the weekend. all week long, obviously. >> the president, what i am hearing is he thinks to protect himself politically, he has to go out and talk about this. there are two sort of push/pulls. underneath the president's level, there are some people in the administration who want to take serious measures, who want to go further than what the administration has done so far. in order to try to make sure the people are protected here. there's another faction who says we cannot be alarmists. there will be serious economic impacts.

you seeing some of that tension. the other tension is the other way, between the president and almost everybody else, where they understand they're getting out there and need to put out accurate information, or there -- there is a sense that they know there is pressure on them to do so. the problem is, the president then goes out and does what he did on friday afternoon and says things that simply are not accurate, simply are confusing and misleading, objectively, no matter how you look at it. that creates more messaging problems for the people around him. >> al cardenas, dr. fauci said this morning, if you're an elderly person with an undermying condition, the risk is considerable. having the president say that would be more impactful. than dr. fauci, but the president won't say it. >> yeah. and i don't understand the politics of it because whenever you have national disasters, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, if you're a leader and looking at this through a political lens, your expectations ought to be within reason but as high as possible so that whenever things turn out

to be less damaging than you originally predicted, you're doing well as a leader. he's trying to underestimate and undermine what the reality here is, and so when it turns on him and becomes far worse, he's going to get the blame for not handling the matter properly. if i was a leader of the free world, i would be saying, look, this is a virus. it's very serious. we're going to take a hit in 2020 economically and otherwise. it's time for our nation to come together. i'll keep this transparent. i'll keep informing you, but the main thing here is for us to trust the process. but that's not what he is doing. >> underpromise and overdeliver. >> instead, matt, let me play the president at the cdc. >> i like the numbers being i don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that and it wasn't the fault of the people on the ship either. okay. it wasn't their fault either. and they're mostly american. so i can live either way with it.

i would rather have them stay on, personally. >> the president is referring to the crew ship that we expect to dock in the port in oakland there. 46 people tested, 21 people confirmed positive. 3500 people on the ship, we can worry about the math on that. he's worried about metrics. >> but he can live either way with it, so we're okay. you know, this president talks on and on about the deep state. right? the deep state that's out to get him. there is a deep state in washington. it's called the government. we even have a union for it, called the civil service. these are the people who have expertise, who run agencies, who devote their lives to public service. when you -- there is a cost for continually discounting that expertise. there's a cost for continually appointing people to jobs who aren't qualified or just because they're loyalists, of throwing people out when they don't say the thing you want. right now, he needs to fall back on what he calls the deep state, and he doesn't have it. and i think there's a looming political cost for that. >> he's been advised, i'm told by people, by his allies on

capitol hill and elsewhere to put public health officials out more as the face of this than politicians, for example, people like dr. fauci who you just had on, >> right. >> but so far they still want to make sure that the white house is the face of it, led by vice president pence and secretary azar. >> this is a case where nobody out there -- well, there are trump supporters out there who will listen to the president, but the world is not looking for president trump to lead on this because at this point, i think people expect that he's not capable of leading on this. what's really interesting, and one of the things i learned during the ebola outbreak of 2014, is that the first instinct of any government in the middle of a public health crisis is to calm people down and to underplay it. we saw that in liberia for the first few months, they were worried about the economy so people were in denial. you saw that in china at the beginning of this coronavirus.

you saw that in other places. you see it still playing out in iran. we have seen that play out in the united states. it's not until governments accept and then go into -- move beyond acceptance and get aggressive that they're able to get this thing controlled. that's the case, what we're seeing -- we saw happen in china when they finally got their act together with their rather draconian measures. that's what you have to see here. >> how is he going to handle -- it was odd yesterday. it was mike pence doing the presidential meetings. the meeting with the cruise ship industry. the president went to his golf club. it just -- and you heard governor hogan really heap a lot of praise on vice president pence. by the way, governor inslee as well. the democratic from washington state also complimentary to vice president pence. >> then the president turned him around and called him a snake. you heard governor hogan say something interesting, which is the president hasn't been doing it how i have been doing it, but

everybody else has been doing a good job. there is a separation in the mind, a difference between the president and everybody else on this. >> al, we do it so naturally now, it seems. >> look, the president said publicly, his grandfather went to m.i.t. peay himself has this ability where he is comfortable in science, thanks to his grandfather. my sense is he has convinced himself, and that's what we need to understand, that he's got a grasp on the issue and he wants to talk about it. it's hard for people around him to convince him to take a step back and let the professionals and scientists take over the matter. >> matt, we were talking about it before the break. what the iran hostage crisis was to the final year of carter's presidency, not his fault, but a test in realtime. this is what this seems to be for trump. >> one thing, what you're talking about. one thing when all the republicans in washington say he says some crazy stuff on taxes. or this or that, and we have got it handled. it's a different thing when the president is out there leading publicly in a crisis and people

are seeing it in realtime, taking their cues from it. there's a certain capacity for chaos in american voters. they don't like chaos. they don't like uncertainty. the markets don't like it. the voters don't like it. i'm frankly surprised that the exhaustion from that chaos has been as slow in coming as it has in the american public, but this does hold the potential if it goes badly to become a kind of jimmy carter like scenario where the public can't wake up with this anxiety every day. we have to have leadership. >> when we come back, bernie sanders said he would bring new voters to the polls and they would vote for him. he got that about half right. stick around. it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ lobster fan like wild caught lobster, butter poached, creamy and roasted. or try lobster sautéed with crab, shrimp and more. so hurry in and let's lobsterfest. or get it to go at red lobster dot com

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welcome back. data download time. bernie sanders likes to say he's the one candidate who can energize a broad coalition of voters. specifically new voters, to go to the polls. but in the first 12 democratic primary contests for which we have data, we saw a different candidate do precisely that, joe biden. in 10 out of the 12, the vote was up in many places considerably. in 8 of those 10, biden won. and in 6 of the 8, he won by double digits. that includes north carolina, where the vote was up by 17%, where biden beat sanders by 19 points.

south carolina's vote was up by 46%. where biden won by 29 points. in virginia, the vote was up by almost 70%. and biden beat sanders by 30 points. there are a few things those states have in common. suburban vote and high performance in african-american centers. compared to the 2016 democratic primary, voter turnout was up by a lot in many african-american counties. place where is almost half the population is black. in madison county, alabama, turnout was up 53%. it was up 57% in henry county, virginia. and in lancaster county, south carolina voter turnout was up 83%. then there was the help from voters who used to be reliably republican. college-educated suburbanites outside major metro areas. they turned out in big numbers in 2020, and they did so for joe biden. in charlotte, north carolina, charleston, south carolina, and the washington, d.c. suburb of louden county, virginia. turnout was way up, helping biden win all three states

decisively. that's not say to say bernie sanders supporters aren't fired up and reliable participants he can count on in these big contests. but super tuesday proved joe biden is firing up democrats as well and reigniting the obama coalition while he's at it. and in the upcoming primary contests, his are the types of voters who are more likely to live and vote in those states. when we come back, "end game." looking ahead to tuesday's six contests. what is the bernie sanders path to the nomination? ahh no, come on. i saw you eating poop earlier. hey! my focus is on the road, and that's saving me cash with drivewise. who's the dummy now? whoof! whoof! so get allstate where good drivers save 40% for avoiding mayhem, like me. sorry! he's a baby!

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back now with end game and the fallout of super tuesday. matt, you were hinting at this. another guy named matt wrote the follows about of joe biden. biden is the secure choice, the comforting presence, the genial if slight sli out of it grandpa you like to have and. you turn to him in threatening times because of who he is. it is why so many democrats chose him on tuesday. it was interesting. now, he made an argument later that eventually maybe biden wouldn't feel like the right candidate in six months but, boy, thinking of the moment to go in now, that might actually be the low energy thing may be what the public doesn't want even in the fall. >> you could do worse than to project calm and steadiness. i think it's a strong general election pitch. it is harder in a primary and if

he hadn't won the margin he did in south carolina would not have been able to clear the field and put himself in the position he did. i think it was that margin, not just winning south carolina but the margin and the turnout than the party doing something that the democratic party would never do, performing effectively. >> they acted like a party. >> acted like a party. right? >> a party of the 20th century. >> now exactly where i think you want him to be as a democrat because i think that might be the strongest case. >> i think circumstances have played a lot in this. >> oh my goodness yes. >> the second tier candidates as i call them at the time, klobuchar, mayor pete, the others have a resurgence elizabeth warren in october at the top and made her come down a bit and then that made sanders look better. and my sense is if at the very same time voters mature. they start going from the favorite candidate to, you know, to then start thinking general

election. who can best beat trump which is really a key piece to this voter thought process and now, you know, it's pretty clear after sanders doing well in iowa and new hampshire that, you know, if we let this thing go he will be the nominee and can't beat donald trump and when that happened people started thinking who can beat donald trump and who can we coalesce around and brought biden back. >> the democrats trying to do something they have never done before which is win with a seasoned nominee. if either sanders or biden gets it, they've run before and not the recipe for democrats. >> really seems as if, though, everything provided we don't have a major biden gaffe in the next couple of weeks, it feels as if all the stacks are in his favor now because keep in mind last tuesday we had only seen --

so many people absentee voted between south carolina and tuesday that i think we saw just the tip of the biden wave and i think what you are going to see this coming days and beyond that is just a wholesale shift and that that will make me want not to be bernie sanders right now. >> it is. i do think his campaign is two weeks to live or prove that it's viable. michigan and ohio being to me the two biggest tests he's got. >> on electability, that is what democratic voters want. when you look at donald trump and the white house and the campaign side of things they want to talk about bernie sanders. right? they want this discussion. the president wants to say that the establishment is rigging it against sapders, a message to voters. one of the studies is 1 in 10 going for donald trump in the 2016 election. but they are concerned about joe biden. chuck, you made the point earlier that we started with bernie sanders and joe biden as the front-runners early in the race and coming to them in the end. i was that ughing to sources in

the campaign a year ago and it was joe biden, look where we are now. it is concern about how joe biden will perform in places like michigan. >> elizabeth warren has a pretty good pulse on this. the fact she didn't endorse bernie sanders but gave him every break in the debate shows i think she knows where the tide is going. >> a pragmatism to the progressive politics. >> now a conclusion that biden will pick a woman as a running mate and if he's weak on the base elizabeth warren looks like a good one. if he needs a black, kamala harris looks like a good one and i'm a big fan of picking hispanic. we'll see where that goes. >> i want to play elizabeth warren's quote of sexism in the campaign because i think it rang true with a lot of women. >> if you say, yeah, there was sexism in this race, everyone says, whiner. and if you say, no, there was no sexism, about a bazillion women

think what planet do you live on? >> yeah. that's -- i mean, that's completely true. there was clearly sexism. i still see people talking about not liking -- particularly was elizabeth warren. i was shocked. i thought that went away with hillary. people not liking the tone of her voice and picked on bloomberg and you see that again and again and again and stuns me to this day that so many other countries have managed to elect a woman president and this country, you know, that we think is so much ahead of all these other places we can't seem to do it. i don't get it. >> people not like that about elizabeth warren and not being sexist? the argument i think is true for women and i would point to amy klobuchar who i thought was terrific in the debates and couldn't pick up traction but in warren's case i think she couldn't choose a lane. too socialist for the moderates.

>> that is -- there is -- >> you can't be everybody's second choice. >> no, no, no. >> yes. >> that i completely -- >> because you like her? >> no. it's because she was clearly -- >> she was a big favorite with the media set but did not resonate. >> i think the cam pan made tactical mistakes. >> just to go back to the point you're making, you make an argument, the argument i think she is making is on the personality piece of it. people like, for example, the president saying i don't think she lost because of sexism but because she is kind of mean. women hear that and go that's sexist. >> definition. i am way out of time. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." hot! hot!

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welcome "to kc hunt." i'm kasie hunt. the coronavirus spreads and the death toll climbs. i'll talk to a top medical expert. and i'm joined by senators where the patients are rising. later bernie sanders and joe biden may be the perfect foils for the field. how many democrats are asking themselves how the potential nominee ended up old, white and male? in a time of crisis,