welcome "to kc hunt." i'm kasie hunt. the coronavirus spreads and the death toll climbs. i'll talk to a top medical expert. and i'm joined by senators where the patients are rising. later bernie sanders and joe biden may be the perfect foils for the field. how many democrats are asking themselves how the potential nominee ended up old, white and male? in a time of crisis, though, we

need a clear, consistent message from the government and what's become clear so far is from a testing, messaging and an economic perspective we need more funding, coordination and preparation. this hour the number of coronavirus cases has passed 500 in the u.s. 21 people have died. congress acted this week to give $8.3 billion in extra funding but that comes after years of grinding away at the public health infrastructure. it's not as though we didn't have any warning. first, it was asia. now 16 million people in northern italy are quarantined including the financial center of milan and a quarter of the country's population as the death toll there spikes above 300. even the pope who has famously watched the feet of the infirmed video streamed the sunday blessing. now ten american states have declaured emergencies and there are very real questions of how

ready we are to test widely and treat american who is are infected. but the president has been defiant about the administration's response and his tone hasn't always quite hit the mark. >> we had a report today the global death rate at 3.4% and a report that the olympics could be delayed. your reaction to that? >> well, i think that the 3.4% is really false number. now, this is just my hunch. if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work -- >> some people will have this at a very light level and won't even go to a doctor or hospital. they'll get better. there are many people like that. young people seem to be -- you can't say immune to it but certainly numbers are very small. >> you know, you hear a lot of stuff of try not to shake hands. it's not stopped me at all.

>> i haven't touched my face in weeks. in weeks. i miss it. >> i get it. people are surprised i understand it. every one of the doctors said how do you know so much about this? maybe i have a natural ability. maybe i should have done that instead of running for president. in ib that needs a test, that's the important thing. a ten tests are all perfect. like the letter was perfect. the transcription was perfect. right? this was not as perfect at that but pretty good. i told mike not to be complimentary to the governor because that governor is a snake. okay? i would rather because i like the numbers being where they are, i don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. >> sir, given the announcement of coronavirus are you going to hold rallies? >> we'll have tremendous rallies and doing very well and done a fantastic job with respect to that subject on the virus. >> joining me now is dr. peter

hotez, professor and dean for tropical medicine at baylor college of medicine. thank you for coming on tonight. >> thank you, so much. i appreciate it. >> let's just start with where things stand right now based on what you know about the situation. this is expanding, two additional states. the economic impacts seem to be encreasing. seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there about what americans should be doing. in your view, how should people be adjusting how they go about the daily lives considering where this stand right now? >> well, thanks for asking. you know, i think this week is a tough week and we are going to see an expansion in the availability of testing, two commercial labs starting tomorrow. qwest diagnostics.

that means physicians are going to have additional options for testing. and my prediction is as the testing increases we're going to see a sharp uptake -- sharpen crease in the number of actual cases reported. that's the first thing that will happen. the second is that we may -- because of that, we may identify new potential areas of community transmission. and so, that means we may be entering potentially another phase. i don't know if it will happen this week or next week but i think that's a likely scenario to see new areas of community spread and so it's really important how the administration, how the white house responds to that because, you know, some of the previous messages were not supported by data and now that we will have an increase in data i think it's really important for either the vice president or his designate

to come on and say, okay, we recognize that there's an increase in transmission, increase in number in cases and what we'll do about it. i'm hoping as i have been talking about and as i testified in congress last week that he identifies or he identifies the four major groups at risk and then say, okay, we recognize this. we realize this is a serious problem and here's what we'll do about it. >> so there were reports over the weekend that there was a lot of conflict inside, you know, behind the scenes at the white house about how strongly to come forward to the public and say, don't get on a cruise ship, don't get on a plane. you know? in the end they walked back from that. dr. fauci was on with chuck todd this morning being pretty clear that elderly americans should not get on cruise ships and recommended against long trips if you are, you know, elderly or you have an underlying condition that could make you particularly

vulnerable. what recommendations should the government make in your view to limit that spread? >> so it's a great question and the answer is, we have to base it on what we have already seen in central china, what we have already seen in south korea, what we have seen in italy and washington state. we have seen the same thing play out each time. it is not a mystery. we know older americans, especially those who are having understood lying debilitating conditions at high risk and forget about whether it's 1%, 2%, 3% mortality. the point is we are looking at 10% to 20% mortality among that older population an we saw how this virus ripped through that nursing home. my understanding between 10 and 15 deaths now in 1 nursing home and could happen in any nursing home in the united states right now where there's ongoing community transmission. that's all hands on deck to prevent that. number two, dealing with the health care providers.

we have seen in wuhan 15% of those infected out of thousand not only sick but severely ill and don't understand why because the health care providers getting cigger than predicted based on the age and the point is that's the second group to protect. lastly, the first responders. third first responders and then selected occupations, things leek people like uber drivers or taxi drivers and what i want to see come out of the white house this week if we're seeing a big increase in cases is that specific messaging with real guidance on what we need to do because the heads of these nursing homes and our hospital workers, nurses, nurse practitioners, they have to be protected. if they start to go down, then the whole thing collapses very quickly. >> certainly a scary possibility. the financial times wrote about some of the unique challenges that we have here in the states that, you know, perhaps some other developed countries don't

face. they're concerned that a mix of high numbers of uninsured people, a lack of paid sick leave and the political class down played the threat could mean it spreads more quickly than in other countries while our drugmakers look best set to find a vaccine, some fine it's one of the worst affected by the global pandemic. do you share those concerns? and what should policymakers do to address the high number of uninsured or underinsured people and many people don't have access to sick leave? >> well, not a health policy expert. i'm a laboratory investigator who develops vaccines and no secret the health system overall in america underachieves. we leave behind a big bottom segment of society who are left without insurance, left without access to primary care health interventions and, of course, they're the one that is get it the worst.

they're the one who is are also highly vulnerable groups so i'm glad you pointed that out and the ones if they do get sick don't have the backup in terms of paying the wages, insuring they support the families and hoping component of that whatever it is, $7 billion or $8 billion goes to help the vulnerable populations. gandhi said a civilization is tested by the treatment of the population. >> before you go, you mentioned that you are an infectious disease specialist, co-director for the center of texas children's hospital. you had worked on a treatment for a novel coronavirus in the past. can you just update us on where you stand in terms of moving forward on that? and if you have any new sense of how quickly we may be able to get a vaccine to market? >> yeah. we developed -- we develop -- we

developed the vaccines no one else will because it's vaccines to have no financial return and primarily for neglected diseases of poverty and in poorer countries but about a decade ago we took on a coronavirus vaccine program. no one else was entering into that space. we have a coronavirus vaccine we're excited about getting into clinical trials provided to identify the source of funding to move it into the clinic and still at the stage writing proposals with the hope that some funding might come through to move that along and then we're developing a sec generation one, as well. vaccine development is complicated and pretty excited about our vaccine to advance it. >> all right. doctor, thank you very much for your time tonight. we really appreciate your sober insights. joining me now, democratic senator jeff merkley of oregon. thank you for being on tonight.

>> you bet. good to be with you. >> so i want to start with a little bit of what dr. anthony fauci told my colleague chuck todd on "meet the press" this morning. watch. >> are you more optimistic today than last week? >> depends on what you mean by optimistic. we certainly now that we have tests out and get a better ndle but clearly concerned about community spread. you have to be concerned about community spread. >> so, senator, your home state declared a state of emergency today. you heard the doctor there, he says he is not optimistic or certainly did not come across as terribly optimistic of this next week to go. what's your view of what we're in for the next week and what you and your colleagues on capitol hill need to be doing about it? >> we are absolutely in the stage of community spread. first three cases in the state and now 14 were community spread and spreading for weeks and it is going to hit vulnerable

populations and as we do more testing, we see more cases reported. to address this, we have to encourage people who are feeling symptoms to stay home and people can't afford it and we should have and i talked with the vice president about this last week. they should be encouraging employers to pay employees who have symptoms to stay home and many people with immigration status, green cards and so forth, are worried of the public charge issue, they'll lose the immigration status going to a health clinic and the president should be saying absolutely clear you can did to a health clinic. there is no risk. we need to make sure they understand, people understand that i.c.e. is not hanging out at health inclinics so people get treated. so we need to really have clear leadership. the president said he had a natural ability in science. i think in this case the trutd

truth is he has an inability to speak clearly and factually about the challenge we're facing. >> this is breaking new. i apologize for springing this on you. i want to share it with the viewers and get your reaction. senator ted cruz, his office just issued a statement. he was informed last night that ten days ago when he was at cpac he says, quote, i briefly interacted with an individual symptomatic and tested positive for covid-19. that was a brief conversation and a handshake. he said he's spoken with the relevant authorities. he doesn't have any symptoms. it was ten days ago. he doesn't think that he's going to get sick and going to stay in texas. he is not going to come back to washington, d.c. after learning of this. what is your reaction, first of all, to this news to hearing that a colleague had an interaction with somebody who's sick? also, the broader plans to

protect our government and our congress in the event that this does continue to spread? >> yeah. absolutely. well, he is modeling good behavior saying he will self quarantine at home and stay away from the public and congress. the first end of that talking about having done a handshake, all this week i have been trying to do elbow bumps. it is hard to do. i have to explain to people -- >> trying the same thing. doesn't work well. >> it is really hard. but it's -- people get it. i held a series of town halls yesterday and after the first couple people, people started to say, i got it. here's my elbow. some folks say boot bumps. so we're trying to bring that behavior and convey to people that really this is -- think of the flu. if you hand wash a lot, if you cough into your sleeve, if you use fluids on your hands,

anti-septic fluid, that's not the right word, sanitizer, you keep your hands away from your face you greatly reduce the spread so this is the type of behaviors that all of us in leadership should be modeling. i did a video to convey this and i encourage other folks in elected office to do that. we have to really do everything we can to slow down the spread of this disease. >> let me ask you about the state of play in your home state of oregon as we mentioned. before there is a state of emergency, you talked about the community spread. would better access, quicker access to testing have potentially changed how this has played out in your home state in your view? how big of a failure was that in your understanding? >> it's a very significant failure. those tests would have allowed us to understand better who's infected and had them get

appropriate treatment or appropriate self quarantine to reduce the spread. so that the delay in testing is a factor. the messaging of the president is essentially that the democrats are politicizing this, a hoax, this does not help at all. this is a sort of thing, science based, we are in this together, we have 90 countries in the world that have infections. the numbers are going to go way up and we have to have a sense that politics is set aside. we are all in this together. >> all right. senator merkley, thank you very much for your time tonight. we are, of course, thinking about your constituents in oregon and across the country who are dealing with this outbreak. joining me now is washington correspondent kayla tausha. let's listen to something that the president said on friday and then talk about it. >> we will have americans staying home instead of going to spend money in other countries

and maybe a reason that the job numbers are so good. we have had a lot of travel inside the usa. >> so the associated press fact checked the comments and wrote that is not a reason that the job numbers are so good. kayla, this is -- you know the second half of the story, you know, as people are grappling with what to do here, obviously we have those who are ill and who need treatment and very focused on that. however, there are millions of americans trying to prevent themselves from getting the disease and well beyond not shaking hands as senator merkley so correctly pointed out. people aren't getting on airplanes, don't want to travel. what goes through kind of what the economic impact is of this, right now, but also in the long term? what are we looking at sneer. >> the problem is a lot of companies, investors don't know how to read the situation an saying the impact of the emergency federal reserve rate cut of the last week won't know for 30, 60, 90 days what the

impact of that will be and do to the economy and whether this will have been a flash in the pan. i was talking to an official over the weekend saying that the effort has gone from messaging to mitigation and that as of a few days ago they were really wondering why there hadn't been more prominent investors going out there saying keep calm, carry on, buy the market. this is all going to be okay and that's because people don't know how this is going to turn out. corporate policy is relatively ad hoc and there have been anecdotal positives to this. if you can call it that. i have been on the campaign trail. some businesses in iowa and new hampshire said they're getting business from the china supply chain. cust mores don't want stuff coming from china but not enough business for them to hire more people for them to have a better economic outlook. they don't know. >> for people who are at home and maybe watching the markets tonight. there's been a few headlines about futures for tomorrow that we can potentially see the

market open lower. tied in with oil. how does coronavirus connect to the oil market? >> the election we should also throw in there, too. the white house had been readying a package of economic stimulus items that they had hoped to release later this year and sort of been sped up because they want to try to figure out what to do now. the problem is when it rains it pours an not only have a global slowdown afoot with coronavirus and now a price war of saudi arabia and russia tanking oil and the futures, as well. that will threaten the viability of oil producers here in the u.s. an then you have new provocations from north korea and when it rains it pours and so many issues to deal with at once that it's hard for the white house to figure out how to deal with one at a time. >> complex set of problems to grapple with. we are just getting started. here this hour, when we come back, bernie sanders is hoping to repeat a pure michigan moment from 2016. we'll have brand new reporting

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welcome back. the shrinking of the feed, the democrats so desperately demapded, has happened. joe biden is suddenly flush with cash claiming to raise $22 million in 5 days and spreading

out $12 million in ads across michigan, illinois, ohio and missouri. the crowds at biden's event had been modest compared to bernie sanders but thousands turned out in st. louis and kansas city, missouri, competing there tuesday. massive crowds joined sanders all weekend in the midwest and this morning. joining me now reporter with "the washington post" and msnbc analyst robert costa, washington correspondent kayla is back with us, correspondent for wbur and contributor kimberly at conditions and shaquille brewster. bob, let's start with the state of the race. it is amazing just a week ago this race was completely different. the conversation we were having on sunday night that you had on washington week on friday night. utterly different than where we sit tonight. to the point that, you know, the

map that we are looking at heavily favors biden in many ways because those -- he's poised for landslides in southern states even if the midwest states are tight with sanders. biden could have a significant delegate lead. >> it's all about michigan. senator sanders won michigan in 2016. that's going to give him momentum f. he wants to have a long race to the convention in milwaukee. the problem for senator sanders right now is many of the voters who went with him in 2016 anti-clinton voters, not necessarily senator sanders' voters. he scrapped that visit to mississippi to get the voters out in michigan. >> kimberly, i was with bernie sanders when he won michigan. i remember how surprised everybody was back here in washington and in new york. i will say my producer and i were less surprised and felt

like we were waving this flag that it could turn against bernie sanders but to bob's point it does seem as though there has to be a dynamic at work that joe biden has less of a problem with a lot of the voters who backed bernie sanders than hillary clinton did. >> absolutely. that's a big part of it. look. bernie sanders did benefit of that weariness of hillary clinton. he also benefited from rank and file union members. i'm from michigan and a big backbone and also what helped propel him this year in places like nevada where a lot of those rank and file union voters even after the primary went and voted for trump in michigan. he was able to pull those. if he can't do that again, it is very, very difficult especially given biden's popularity there, much higher than hillary clinton's to pull ahead in a state like michigan. he needs to win michigan big. it is a big question mark and it is going to be tough. >> this potentially also, kayla,

how do you think the economic factors that are at play here are going to impact bernie sanders? the state has swung to the democrats, the governor now pretty popular democrat, had been a republican previously. how do you think that overall trend is going to impact the primary with bernie and biden? >> president trump is the elephant in the room because the trade policy left very little room for both biden and sanders to actually differentiate themselves on that front. to kimberly's point, 28% of the electorate with a household member in a union and this election cycle, they haven't come out and been public with the endorsement and hard to know where that vote will fall, certainly sanders has been going out to try to get that vote. we don't know where any of the united workers members are at. >> just to continue on kayla's point, the economy is going to be everything. the big picture on trade and also what happens in the markets

on monday? if we're looking at a saudi price war in the oil markets globally, you could see the dow jones industrial average on monday become the global story and that's the eve of what happens on tuesday's primary day. >> you don't think necessarily of sanders of a candidate to win an independent voter but if the economy is that recession, if unemployment becomes very high, there will be a lot of people wondering where they get the health care, a lot of democrats in congress saying maybe $30 trillion of deficit spending is what the economy needs. that entire conversation could change depending on where the economy goes. >> shaq, let's get you to weigh in on the conversation. you have been out on the trail with bernie sanders. we have seen him make a couple of decisions that make clear he's ceding the south. campaigning in michigan instead. he also had said he was going to deliver a speech focused on race in flint, michigan. last-minute decision not to do that but the reality here is

it's all or nothing for him in michigan on tuesday. no? >> yeah. you know the strategy right now, almost seeing the sanders campaign trying to replicate the sense of momentum that vice president biden had going into super tuesday. he is on the campaign trail at the university of michigan with another big crowd. he's got the endorsement of rev jackson and also feeling a seriousness heading into michigan. they know that with the 125 delegates up for grabs in michigan it's an opportunity for them but it's also carries symbolic significance. >> we are going to win the democratic nomination! >> he may not admit it -- >> i'm asked every day, do you have to win this state, that state? >> reporter: this could be his final stand. trailing after disappointing super tuesday, bernie sanders finds himself in a familiar position. >> we're down to two. >> reporter: once again, the

party establishment coalescing, the field narrowing and the tension growing. >> you know -- >> excuse me! i'm talking. >> let him. >> reporter: like 2016 -- >> the polls had us down by 20, 25 points. a week ago. and it looks like we'll either win or be very, very close tonight. >> reporter: sanders is putting the faith in michigan. for a shift in momentum. on super tuesday, it wasn't even close as sanders struggled with black voters across the soit. by the nld of the week, he abruptly canceled the stop in jackson instead making the way to michigan to focus on the midwest voters that helped propel him four years ago. >> bernie sanders is the projected winner. >> reporter: the campaign redeploying staff and packing the schedule. >> we need all hands on deck. we got our backs against the wall! we coming out swinging! >> only one candidate for president has consistently opposed every disastrous trade

deal and that candidate is bernie sanders. >> reporter: sanders again using trade to draw sharp distinctions. >> secretary clinton supported virtually every one of the disastrous trade agreements. does anybody think that joe can go to michigan and say vote for me, i voted for those terrible trade agreements? i don't think so. >> reporter: but as he campaigns on an american turn around in the midwest sanders is counting on a campaign turn around that starts in the midwest if he hopes to beat joe biden. >> it was in flint, michigan, to address the african-american community, something you referenced earlier. and instead he scrapped that speech. the audience majority white and stayed to the stump speech and relied on the surrogates up there to really have that direct target and that direct engagement. >> shaquille, thank you. kayla, sounds like you have a

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are you concerned about the appearance. >> there's no question but the appearance of looking into hunt biden appears political and i think people are tired of the kind of political investigations and would hope if there's something of significance to be evaluated that it would be done by perhaps the fbi or some other agency that's not as political as perhaps a committee of our body. >> what a difference a day makes. that was thursday when republican senator mitt romney expressed concern over what he called the political nature and timing of a senate investigation into the bidens. but on friday romney's office revealed that he will vote in favor of a subpoena for records regarding hunter biden's work in ukraine after receiving any assurances that an interview would be in a closed setting. robert costa is with me and robert is -- andrew is joining

me. it seems romney is uncomfortable and would have been the one to ultimately making the call and blocking this, decided against this. >> exactly. the committee with 58-6 republican majority and if one republican voted no it's a 7-7 tie and no mechanism within that committee to break a tie and the subpoena would have failed. it's unclear what the chairman ron johnson said to persuade him to vote for the subpoena. but i'm perplexed at senator romney's reasoning saying he got assurances it wouldn't be a public speck kl of an interview with a ukrainian with chairman johnson said there will be a report in one to two months. i find it hard to believe this won't make it a public spectacle especially where we'll be in the democratic primary one to two

months from now. >> fair point. republicans used closed depositions and other activities to their great political advantage during the benz probe. >> exactly. >> bob, let's broaden this out a little bit. this investigation at the bidens, this is about the election. but we are about to get overshadowed by a crushing series potentially of global events, including we were talking about this a little bit in the break, the oil market situation. how do you see the current state of play for the president as he looks to -- yes, talking about the primary but to face a democrat tries to hold on to the oval office in front of all of these potential calamities. >> some sources were saying that the president trump re-election campaign is not trump versus biden but the virus and so much of the spotlight in the coming weeks to shift to the administration and the president and the handling of this crisis both on a management front but also on an economic front but if

you look that the committee's investigation into the bidens, it tells you that we are in a period now and beginning a period of political war with this white house going after the bidens and mark meadows coming in as chief of staff affirms every republican's suspicion in recent weeks that the president turning to a campaign prepared white house, a campaign focused white house and meadows at the president's side for months if not years telling him to go harder at the bidens. now a coordinated effort with the white house and congressional allies all targeting the potential democratic nominee. >> andrew, you have covered mark meadows as we all have over the years and to bob's point, i mean, that does seem to signal we are entering a new phase here and again incredibly unpredictable and the president to grapple with coronavirus questions. >> exactly. back to the biden issue, senate republicans are divided on this. privately there is really a lot

of internal consternation over this investigation that senator johnson and senator grassley are spearheading. i reported a week and a half ago that chairman richard burr actually confronted senators johnson and grassley during a meeting on december 5th saying that essentially their investigation into the bidens which began in the heat of the impeachment inquiry could be a potential front for russian intelligence and not be certain that the individuals who i mentioned before that the information coming into the committee would actually be credible and verifiable. that's why you see democrats call for intelligence briefings, defensive briefings, rather, to verify what they're told and the information and the documents they get to their committee as part of the investigation. so they're divided on the question, not just the political nature of it but the sort of, you know, how it could affect with the relationship with the world. >> certainly could be that they end up not giving the white

house what they want. >> exactly. >> bob, andrew, thank you guys both for your reporting. when we come back, american women grapple with another election cycle without a female president. that's next on international women's day. >> how have you been since dropping out of the race? >> i'm doing just fine. my friends and family have been so supportive. they've been calling nonstop. asking are you okay, what do you need? were you electable? that kind of thing. at average risk. i took your advice and asked my doctor to order cologuard, that noninvasive colon cancer screening test. the delivery guy just dropped it off. our doctor says it uses advanced science. it's actually stool dna technology that finds 92 percent of colon cancers. no prep, and private. colon cancer screening that's as easy as get, go, gone. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your healthcare provider if cologuard is right for you.

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i wonder what your message would be to women and girls who feel like we're left with two white men to decide between. >> i know. one of the hardest parts of this is all those pinky promises and all those little girls who are going to have to wait four more years. that's going to be hard. >> the 2020 presidential race for the democrats was supposed to finally show off the diversity inside the party and started out that way. the most diverse field in american history and showed in july when 20 candidates stood on the debate stage. but with every passing caucus and primary, the field started to dwindle, even before that, really. candidates failed to qualify for debates, the staff gets cut and candidates drop out. as the race has narrowed so, of course, has the diversity. eventually the debates started to feature an all-white cast men

and women. thursday, the last woman with a viable shot at the nomination left the race and leading to the reality for many women no matter what party wins four more years the white house will be occupied by a white man. joining me former xhungs director of kamala harris lily adams and former senior adviser to elizabeth warren's presidential campaign and the former campaign manager for castro's bid, maya rupert, kimberly atkins back with us, as well. lily, you know, i think there was something of an outpouring in the wake of elizabeth warren dropping out that was -- in some ways it was angry but there was also other emotion underneath it. i feel like it came from women, some of whom perhaps didn't support elizabeth warren's presidential bid, but there still was a lot of symbolism in

her leaving the race that people really had a deep reaction to. >> well yeah. i think it was such a gut punch because it was the culmination of after watching gillibrand get out and then senator harris get out and then amy klobuchar get out that this was the culmination of no more women in the field and for folks elizabeth warren was not the first pick it was a gut punch of a day. but i will also say that when we do elect the first female president it will be because of warren and harris and chisholm and the other women running for president before they're chipping away at the highest, hardest glass ceiling. >> maya, let me ask you to weigh in as somebody who clearly had a lot on the line when she dropped out, this was a personal situation for you and in addition to being something that the country watched unfold. senator warren was asked about this and we played a little bit

of what she said to our ali vitali and she said that, you know, that's no good answer for a woman politician to this question, if -- that you are sort of trapped either way when you talk about how gender plays out. what are your reflections on that question yourself as somebody who's worked the try to get women elected? how do you feel it personally? >> honestly, i was so grateful for the way that she answered that question. that was a very genuine response from her and i think it does lay bear that double standard that women feel not just in politics but consistently in so many industries. you see it, you know that it's different for you. you know that your anger is metabolized differently and the willingness to compromise and no right way to be but saying it out loud there's a social cost that you pay. but then when you don't say it out loud you know you're sort of

betraying sisters who are feeling this exact same thing and pretending like it doesn't exist and just the fact that there is that -- that there is that tension at all is the tension. right? it is the -- you see it but it's supposed to be unspoken butunsp. but if you can't speak it, we can't ever fix it and it's everywhere, it's invisible. but it's very, very powerful. so i was great half the she said it. i was grateful she said it so plainly. because i think for a lot of people just being able to hear someone say it out loud, there's catharsisism in that, that people can say i feel that too. i'm not running for president, i feel it in my job. this is not the only place it plays out. it especially plays out for women of color. so i think it's a big issue, it's something we all really grapple with. so i was really grateful for her, her candor in really discussing that, to that question. >> yeah, and it definitely hits

home. kimberly atkins, one thing that i certainly have grappled with personally in how we cover women on this show, cover politics on this show. the media plays a role and how ideas and perceptions are shaped. some people will say oh, elizabeth warren, she's a professor, she sounds like she's lectu lectureing. not a word we use to describe male politicians, ever. it's something she had to fwrap him with day in, day out. -- grapple with day in, day out. what is fair objective reporters in covering these candidates to make sure that we are not throwing up a road block in an unfair way? >> yeah, i think it's important for members of the media to be conscious of that in a lot of examples. you know the idea when she largely, you can't say she didn't run a good campaign. she ran a very good campaign. she made very few mistakes. i think it's clear the bar was set at a different level for her

than perhaps for other candidates. so when you evaluate a stumble, an answer that was good at a debate, you have to measure just hospital you give to that. and how much you amplify that. but one thing that she said, too, along with saying that it is hard talking about that trap, she said that there will be more to be second in the future. i think one thing she will talk about this. she will talk about i want and address it. because like in 2016, when you had people that are excited about the prospect of a woman being elected. they talk about bringing daughters to the election booth on election day. that was a massive moment so this was a massive deflation for everyone. and i think having her come forward now afterwards, after she's had time to have some space from her own campaign and be in a place where she can talk about how women are treated in politic, in other industries. i think that will be very helpful to help rebound and help people alleviate some of the fears. the voters had fears about voting for a woman, whether a

woman can win. i think it's women. right. so i think as people speaking out about that that will help break that down. >> really quickly before we wrap up here. you worked for kamela harris, who was a woman candidate. how much time for people e people who feel we should be passed this, we nominated a woman last time there. is no reason why we shouldn't have a woman president how much do you spend time thinking about that when you try to run a presidential campaign? >> i think you think about it every day, in small ways and big ways, it's pervasive. it colors a lot of people's viewpoint. every single day are you challenging reporters, pundits, voters to see something that they have never seen before. and that requires a leap of faith and a leap of imagination for folks that other people don't have to jump over that barrier. so i think it really does -- it's something that every campaign i think thinks about once a day, but hopefully not for the entire day. but it's still a challenge to figure out how to get over that hurdle. >> hopefully, as the years go

by, this will become less of a hurdle. literally adams, kimberly atkins, thank you very much for that conversation. we have much more "kasiedc" coming up right after this more coming up right after this insurance so you only pay for what you need. almost done. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this new samsung galaxy on verizon's 5g network is a big upgrade. this is ultra. the new samsung galaxy s20 ultra 5g powered by verizon 5g ultra wideband. 5g ultra wideband is so much faster than even my home internet. with ultra-fast speeds. in the gaming world, if you lag you're done. with verizon 5g ultra wideband, i don't worry about lag. now, buy one of our newest samsung galaxy 5g phones, and get an s20+ on us.

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. i know that many of you have friends who think that politics is -- they don't vote. right? and you told them you went to a bernie sanders rally and they think you're crazy, right? you could have been home doing something productive like watching tv, but here you are. >> we would just like to thank you for staying home and watching tv with us tonight. plus, i talk to senator patty murray as the coronavirus death toll in washington state hits 19. "kasiedc" back after this. "kasiedc" back after this. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them before they start with downy wrinkleguard. hey! bud.

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xfinity x1. simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. . welcome back too the second lawyer of "kasiedc" as the coronavirus spreads here in the united states, new reporting is trickling out about the internal debate inside the white house about what exactly to do about it and what exactly to tell the

american people. the "new york times" reports, quote, even as the government's scientists and leading health experts raise the alarm early and pushed for aggressive action, they faced resistance and doubt at the white house, especially from the president about spooking financial markets and inciting panic. here's what larry kudlow had to say about the virus back on february 25th. >> we have contained this. we have contained this. i won't say air tight, pretty close to air type. >> here thanks february 25th. here is what kudlow said on friday. >> regarding the containment issue, i will still argue to you that this is contained. it can't be air tight. but i think it is relatively contained. >> so in between february 25th and friday, those two sound bytes, the number of confirmed cases in the u.s. went from

about 50 to more than 200. and there are now more than 540 cases nationwide, asked about the mixed miamis from the administration, u.s. surge jerome adams said this morning, quote the messaging quite frankly is hard and hud secretary ben carson seems to prove his point is the to dock in oakland tomorrow with 21 cases positive on board. >> as you know the vice president met with the ceos of major cruise ship companies yesterday and they are coming up with a plan within 72 hours of that meeting. >> the ship is docking tomorrow. >> the plan will be in place by that time. but i don't want to preview the plan right now. >> shouldn't you be able to do that? >> i think it needs to all come from a solitary source.

we shouldn't have 16 people saying what the plan is. >> okay. >> particularly when it hasn't been fully formulated. >> wow, joining me is senator patty murry. senator, thank you for being here. i want to talk about the news coming out of your statement just a second. first i was watching your reaction there. talk about what your reaction is to how the administration is handling it. >> i am so frustrated. i am sad for the people being impacted. i am frightened there is not a sense of urgency from this administration to deal with the very real issue. not in creating panic. but an urgency to see what i am seeing in my home state and soon to be more. >> let's talk about that. there have been 19 constituents who have died from this virus so far. what have you seen oak about

what's going on and where do you think this goes next? >> well, everybody is deeming with this. families told to stay home if they are sick. businesses telling their employees to telecommute. schools that are being shut down and families having to deal with the reality of a virus that is now had a fatality of 18 or 19 people. people know these people. so people are worried. they're frightened. they're scared. they want facts. they want accuracy. they want a plan. they know somebody is in charge and doing something about this and i am frustrated. >> i am sure people they look at you. they're your united states senator. they say certainly you must know more than our deposit. what have you told you about this? >> you know when the first case happened in washington state way back in january, senator lamar alexander and i started having hearings with the agencies pack here to say what are you doing? and it was, well, we're going to

take care of it. we'll have tests when we have them. in a couple weeks. the test didn't really happen. now we are seeing the number of cases grow. well, we'll have a million. we'll have a million-and-a-half. never accurate. when you are in a place when are you sick or your family member is sick and you want to know if this is a coronavirus or how you should deal with it. you hear that, it's a million-and-a-half, i'll get one. that's not happening. so people are making decisions, whether it's about closing their business or their school or keeping their family home based on wrong members and that is creating lot of havoc. it's also creating an unsafe place for people. they need to get a handle on this. the message from washington, d.c. and the planning from washington, d.c. has to be what's happening on the ground and they're not needing that. >> what do you think the president should be doing at this point? what should the response look like? >> well, okay. the tests were one thing. we don't know now.

we know i think it's 120, 130 positive cases. we know the mortality rate is almost at 20. just knowing that, they haven't counted anybody and there is a lot of people out there sick. getting a new process so people have facts that they can deal with it is really significant so people make the right decisions. but now we know it is spreading. not just in my state. other states. what are the plans and how do they help school districts that have to close, that have medically fragile kids, nutrition programs. how do they deal with kids whose parents have to be at work. to businesses that are shutting down. hough do we make sure that people actually stay home? take the nursing home in my state that we know is so highly impacted. there is a lot of hourly wage workers. some are sick. all will being told to stay home f. you don't have the income. have you stay home. that's why we need to have

emergency family paid sick leave for people of low incomes. but we also need plans and nobody is developing those or sharing them broadly across the country. that to me is just really what is wrong with all of this. >> i saw senator schumer and nancy pelosi put on a statement calling for some of those policy descriptions. i want to ask you, ted cruz announcing tonight that he shook hands with somebody now showing symptoms of the coronavirus. he says he's going to stay home in texas. he doesn't plan to get tested. he is not showing any symptoms. what is the potential impact to the functioning of our government as this spreads? what do we need to be doing at the capitol to make sure the functions are protected? >> well, since my state is on the front of this, we have been facing this for a number of weeks now. and we are taking measures to make sure that we are keeping our offices clean, door handles, things like that. when people come in, we are a no

handshake office now, which is hard to learn and we are finding now that a lot of people are cancelling their plans and not coming. i expect other states see this, they will see the other impact. >> let me ask you, senator rick scott, republican florida, he seems to echo some of your criticism. he writes the lack of publicly released information surrounding these cases is alarming and unfair to millions of families across the nation who are worried about their well being. he says they announced he had died of covid-19 before they were aware there were cases in the state of florida. do you sense this is going to become? is there going to be pressure from both sides of the aisle and the president about the response? >> i seen pressure on a number of aisles for a number of weeks now. when the president sent over an emergency supplemental, it was not enough. mr. senators said this is not going to help our communities cope with this i sense all of them. because we're the ones that go

home. we talk to our local fishlgs i talked to mayors, county officials, school directors struggling with this. we see the real life impacts oak. so the sense of urgency we feel is not mirrored by the white house and this administration. we cannot have that. >> senator patty murray. we are, of course, thinking about everyone back in your home state and hoping that all of those who are working to contain this outbreak can succeed to the best of their abilities. thank you. we have so much news today, abc news found many americans are not turning to the cdc for information about the outbreak. but they are actually looking to facebook and particularly facebook groups that are number of misinformation. nbc news report were writes quote in one popular group, members suggested the coronavirus was a democratic plot. in another it was said to be ork stated bety deep state. in one it was a bioweapon it was blamed on the government.

in other it was an insidious plan by vaccine researchers in the united states to make money. brandy joins me now from new york. brandy, it safe to say facebook has more work to do when it comes to trying to contain the spread of misinformation open facebook especially as it relates to the coronavirus. we have seen them stumble around political misinformation. the stakes here are so incredibly high. >> yeah, unlike political misinformation, facebook is really taking this seriously so a couple of weeks ago, the w.h.o. said we have a an info demdemic -- infodemic, creating confusion, people lose money on scams, it's epidemic proportion. we need to do something about it. if you go search right now and you put coronavirus in the search bar, you are going to get reliable information.

are you going to get the cdc. you will get good stuff. the problem is facebook has changed the way they use the platform. they want people to use the platform. they really promoted these groups. in these groups, you are getting the misinformation theories, scams and that's crazy. >> of course, they have been pushing this, i saw an ad for facebook groups when i was watching tv this morning. thank you very much for your reporting tonight. joining me on set, phil rutger, msnbc political analyst and author of the book "a very stable genius" msnbc contributor shauna shops and snbc political analyst jonathan le mere. phil rutger, let me start with you. we were just talking with senator murray about how the white house has responded or not responded to this. the new york times and your paper as well as the a.p. writing about some soft tension

behind the scenes at the white house over the last few days about just what to tell the public. ben carson couldn't say what the administration was going to say tomorrow about this. do they have their messaging straight. what is going on behind the scenes with the president? >> they do not, casey, it's been weeks of infighting inside the trump administration and mixed messages. in part, by the president, himself. he's trying to present a far rosier picture than the scientists are willing to than the truth or facts would allow. that's created a lot of problems from the messaging in the administration. vice president pence has taken the lead role of leading the task force, giving daily updates. he's been far more sticking to the numbers. the reality from the scientists. the problem continues to be president trump. we saw him for the centres for disease headquarters in atlanta on friday. he gave a monologue of a stream

of consciousness about his own abilities, his own natural>> hi. >> exactly. not on the same page as the scientists who came out after him. >> johnson le mere what is your sense of pressure on the president behind the scenes? what are the factions? who is he listening to? who is he in the listening to? what kind of things will listen to? >> the president is listening to his own gut on this, which becomes the pmo particularly of late to phil's point, he's exactly right. the president has been keeping calm. that's appropriate for any leadership, executive during a time of crisis. but not so appropriate as his misrepresentation of the facts. the cdc appearance on friday in particular was stunning in that regard. where he said anyone that could get a vaccine would get one. that's not true. the vice president and others said it could be a year before a

vaccine is readily available this cruise ship, how he didn't want it to dock. because he didn't want those cases to come to the united states and add to the nation's total inflicted by the coronavirus. which is again a short time later, the vice president said no, it will be allowed. we will find a port for it. he is deeply concerned on two levels. first there is managing a global crisis. there is concern on both side of the aisle the trump administration has not done all that well. secondly the economic impact. that's how this president in particular is viewing this. i was with him in india who weeks ago, the markets took a tumble. he was peppered with questions not about necessarily the health impact on american citizens but rather what it was doing to wall street. that has continued ever since. no president has ever tied his fortunes so closely to the stockmarket as this one. he knows if the economy was to slow down here, it would be a

crippling plo eto'o his re-election efforts. >> shauna thomas, absolutely the role of a leader in a crisis to try and urge calm, not incite panic. not communicating what they should be doing to protect themselves runs the risk of making the crisis worse, no? >> exactly. we know the president cares about economy for political purposes especially in this election year. but not having a unified message coming from the white house also freaks businesses out. so the coronavirus, itself, is going to screw with supply chains. it's going to make everything harder when it comes to business. we know that that's bad enough. but businesses are looking around the world, they're looking to see what is going to be america's response and how clear is that response going to be and his response sort of being contradictory to what fauci was saying on meet the press today doesn't make these

businesses more confident. it means they're not sure what they should do either. >> phil, the political risk here. first of all, the very real risk to the country institutions, it's population, very serious. for the president in many ways this is a perfect storm. jonathan le mere mentioned his reliance on the stockmarket and the economic numbers that you know are key to any incumbent winning re-election. but this also is the kind of thing that engages literally every american and highlights this president's propensity not to tell the truth and in this case you know the damage isn't simply spinning up his own supporters, it's potentially very real damage to people's lives. >> yeah, this is so much bigger than partisan politics and the problem for the president there is three years in office he's rejected fact, information from the experts in the government. hef has trusted his gut as john le mere said over the expertise of the people around him.

that's created a decision-making apparatus inside the white house that's being tested now for the very first time in a real crisis. it's not a crisis of his own making. it's not firing the fbi director or something like that. it's a public health crisis that affects every american. >> everybody is paying attention. that's really the point. everyone wants to hear what the president has to say, the white house has to say. >> they're afraid. >> they're afraid. it's hard to spin that. everyone has a mom, a dad, a child in any of this. >> i think we don't know whether to shake hands in our normal day-to-day life, a quick last word to you. any indication that the president is going to change course here in the next week as clearly the repercussions of this ramp up? >> it clearly seems to be optimism if you put pence up, he would talk with a unified voice with pence and for a few days, the briefings seem to follow that track. the cdc visit was scatter shot

and haphazard and undermined in a lot of people's eyes, what people have done in recent days. the president seems to unable to be the public face of this even though he's advised to let others stay forward, including the vice president be the point person. the president he can't not be the center of attention it seems. it seems this is another moment perhaps to his political per im. very briefly, he was a real estate developer and a politician, asserting his own set of facts, reality, often lying in order to do that he has a lot of his supporters believe him over, you know, a big quote fake news media. this is a harder sell. this is going to touch everyone's lives. they will see their school district close, their elderly neighbor get sick. you can't get hand sanitizer at any supermarket or drug store. it will be harder to suggest hey this is no big deal when they're seeing in their own lives that

it absolutely is. >> it's a great point. people who never bother to pay attention ever to what donald trump said at a rally or follow politics at all are going to be dramatic ally affected be i this already are being affected by this. all right, we are just getting started tonight. still to come, joe biden back from the brink as he and bernie sanders fight for the soul of the democratic party. first historian jon meacham joins me live with a long view of the presidents and how they handle crises and ones that go beyond their own control. that's next. t go beyond their own control that's next. r almost anything. even a "gold medal grizzly." (sports announcer) what an unlikely field in this final heat. (burke) not exactly a skinny dipper, but we covered it. at farmers, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. so call 1-800 farmers to get a quote. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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why terrorism? white supremacist is not a analog to isis. its not some foreign thing that looks like we have been fighting in the war on terror. it's actually fundamentally as american as anything. and it is an existential threat to the multi-racial pluralistic equal and freedom of democracy that we have been fighting for in this country since people

died on the battlefield in a civil war. we're following two big stories today. >> the democratic race for the president. >> a two-man race. >> boy what a difference a week makes. >> two delegates behind. >> joe biden will do very well. >> when you go to the mid-west, people want to know about your views on trade. >> are you saying that joe biden will lose to president trump if he's the nominee? >> it will be hard for joe to defend a record on trade. >> the latest on the coronavirus. >> the messaging, quite frankly, is hard. >> has the president been perfect in his communication? i would say he hasn't communicated the way i would. >> are you more optimistic today? >> it depends what you mean about optimistic. clearly i'm worried about spread. >> there are a lot of tests. >> we do not have the ability to give a test to everyone who wants one. >> everybody doesn't need a test. >> it's our responsibility to

protect the vulnerable. no large crowds, no long trips, above all, don't get on a cruise ship. >> you have a bit of a raspy voice, have you tested yourself for the coronavirus? >> my raspy voice is the fact that i'm talking too much on tv shows. >> i think we are all anxious to hear from him in this period of time. welcome back to "kasiedc". in the new york times they say the coronavirus the coming for trump's presidency n. 2016, we elected a china hawk that promise'd complete shutdown in response to threats. a germophobic critic who promised to put the national interests in all is if danger of losing his presidency. when the great test came carried by a virus from communist china, he didn't take the danger seriously enough. joining seems to me presidential historian and msnbc contributor jon meacham. it's always great to have you on the program, sir. we have been talking, we're down

in the details, how many folks have been affected by this, where the test kits are? but the reality is this represents the kind of election year test that makes or breaks legacies and presidents. how do you see the potential for this pandemic affecting or defining president trump? >> well, at a fundamental level, people want one thing from government. they want security. whether that is against terrorists, against foreign foes, or against disease, that's the central claim. to utterly dork out. >> owlss. >> john locke. this is the social contract. right. this is the reason we go from a state of nature to a state of government. with esurrender certain rights and certain liberties that we would have if we were just all by ourselves. because we dwell if greater safety in community. and if the government can't pro

i that safety within that community, then it's a fundamental breakdown. and that seems hyperbolic. but i think what you were just saying a minute ago with everybody is exactly right. this is a existential question. because it's not abstract. this is not ukraine. this is not releasing the aid. this is not the president tweeting something off randomly. this is whether you shake hand. this is whether you get on airplanes. this is whether you will make your quarterly numbers, if you're in business. and then, without being alarmist, it could be about whether you live or you die. so, it doesn't get much more fundamental than that. and what americans want from the intuitively from their government is to borrow an old phrase fromdukakis from

30 years ago, they don't want ideology, they want competence, competence has been in short supply, not just from this administration, competence has been closely associated with federal action. it's one of the reasons trust in government is down almost 60 points from 1965. at the same time, the obama administration did very well with sars. george w. bush reached out with petfar. you know, we have had large-scale public health successes in this country and this is a time for that. >> john, how do you see -- i mean i think you know the broad point we were talking about this a little before the break this is fojz be something that every single citizen of the country tunes into, is focused on, thinking ability. that's very different from the way our polarized politics has operated in a day-to-day way and you know there have been some

folks who have compared this as something that's outside of this president's control to say what happened with jimmy carter and the iran hostage crisis late in his term and how he handled that and it became a defining issue. i mean, how do you see how americans are going to judge this president playing out in the context of coronavirus? >> well, right now, and it's kind of fascinating and proves the point. right now everybody is still in their corner. right. i think people who support the president believe that the premise of the conversation like this is hyperbolic and antagonistic towards the president. i think that people who dislike the president and disapprove of the course he's led the country on thinks we are out being hyperbolic or antagonistic enough. so that's where america is. this is pretty fundamental. again, if there can be a

competent reaction, then we will credit the federal government, the president specifically that it may happen in spite of him. then that will be fine. but this is transcends politics. this is about governance, which is a different thing. and we don't focus on it much, because it's not all that interesting. but this is a massive undertaking, particularly since the new deal. and the fire is rock fuel, somewhat literally in the 1960s with the great society. even president reagan, the great government is not the solution to our problems. government is the problem. he increased the federal government, actually. george herbert walker bush historically gets enormous credit for handling crises without letting bad things happen. he didn't get much credit in real time so have you this push and pull in american life, where

we don't want government until we do. >> until we need it. >> right now we want it. until we need it. until we need it. right now we need it. i've got a 15-year-old and an 11-year-old daughter who are following coronavirus alerts with an incredible level of attention. i suspect that's happening all over the country. it's as intimate and real as it can get. >> i think all of us are following it very -- certainly thinking about whether or not we shake hands with anybody who sits down anywhere and, of course, worried about our relatives who may be more vulnerable. jon meacham. sit tight. we want to talk about your new book. when we come back, bernie sanders versus the establishment. a rematch. we are back after this. establishment. a rematch. we are back after this as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get.

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the establishment put a great deal of pressure on pete buttigieg, on amy klobuchar, who ran really aggressive campaigns. they worked really really hard, suddenly right before super tuesday, they announced their withdrawal. if they had not withdrawn before super tuesday, which is kind of a surprise to a lot of people. i suspect we would have won in minnesota. we would have won in maine. we would have won in massachusetts. >> welcome back to "kasiedc,"

the panel is back with me. shauna thomas, can you fact check that statement from bernie sanders quickly. we have buttigieg's person in charge checking. i haven't spoken to amy klobuchar, knowing her i doubt that was exactly what happened. however, bernie sanders clearly sees it that way and is likely to spin up his supporters. >> true. that's what he wants to do. he wants to spin up his reporters. he ran against the establishment in 2016. part of why america knows who bernie sanders is, is he did pretty well in the democratic primary there. i doily the even pete is saying there isn't establishment people. we don't know about amy klobuchar's team, although i doubt they'd admit to that if they did. there the an establishment argument that i think spoke to both pete and amy, right? and the argument about especially down ballot races and

what does having a democratic socialist running at the top of the ticket do, to these red-to-blue districts that the democrats are able to win in pennsylvania, michigan and that kind of thing. so, while, you know, creating some conspiracy theory is probably not necessarily the best thing to do right now, there is an establishment argument here that works against bernie sanders. >> yeah, jonathan le mere, as i sort of think about that, pull that apart, i xofrd bernie sanders in 2016 -- i loved bernie sanders in 2016. it's clear to me the energy and anger that he brings, with reporters fed up with the status quo. on the flipside the consolidation of the field and frankly conversations that you have with independent voters, swing voters, whether they be democrats or disaffected republicans, it's almost in some ways sounding like maybe it's the establishment another year. you know, this has been joe biden another entire architect. right? let's go back to something that is more normal than what we see

every single day from president trump. >> right. it's an argument for the return to normalcy and also the priority of democrats simply being to beat donald trump. it seems to me that we've seen a merge here in the last few weeks in particular, is not necessarily taking a gamble on a more progressive candidate, maybe the one who more closely aligns with voters of individual values and the idea of electability who can win. having said that, it was certainly stunning how quickly things coalesced around biden. he fared so poorly in idaho and not that much better in nevada and because of south carolina, the clyburn endorsement, the huge margin of victory it did push klobuchar and buttigieg to run out. they were also both rounding low on campaign fund. so i think there is real frustration on the sanders' side, where it felt like they had a momentum and they were stopped cold. but another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is another

candidate was positioned to be the alternative until elizabeth warren eviscerated him on that campaign stage, had that not happened, maybe he does well on super tuesday splitting the moderate vote and bernie sanders picks off a few more states and the race looks different than today. >> phil rutger, all this is well and good. tuesday will be another big night, the tuesday after that looming over all of this is coronavirus. i mean at one point does this campaign have to come to a screeching halt? this president has been holding rally itself. bernie sanders had thousands of people in chicago. at one point does it simply become irresponsible to do that. >> well, that conversation seems to be starting number. trump has been adamant over the weekend he would continue to have tremendous rallies. that's his word. but there aren't any on the schedule right now. what we saw earlier in the primary season is trump would go where the democrats are, be every the iowa caucuses, he did a rally in new hampshire, iowa.

>> not in michigan. >> tomorrow where biden and sanders are going to be. so we have to see. i think there seems to be no indication that the biden or sanders' campaigns will slow down their trail activity and their rallies. but if coronavirus continues to expand, as we are seeing it in recent days, that could be something that happens. >> i mean every business, everyone is thinking about it. i have to think these campaigns are trying to figure out what is the best way to deal? >> it's simply irresponsible not to be thinking about it. >> the candidates, themselves, are older. they're in their 70s. >> it's a very higher risk population with this. >> thank you guys so much for being here tonight. when we come back, we will dig deeper into michigan with congresswoman debbie dingell and congressman roh conna. congressman bernie sanders stunned many by winning there. can he do it again? ing there. can he do it again my choir. i'm a work in progress. so much goes... into who i am.

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in the presidential race on tuesday and michigan is the most delegate-rich among them. 125 delegates at stake. bernie sanders stuns the political world back in 2016 by beating hillary clinton there despite trailing by wide margins in most polls. but this time around, the "new york times" reports bernie sanders might have a michigan problem. joining me now debbie dingell of michigan and ro conna, a co-chair of bernie sander's campaign. i remember having there conversation with you in 2016. you were not surprised, unlike many people, when bernie sanders won michigan. neither was i. i was on the ground with the sanders' campaign in michigan. where do you assess the state of the race this time around compared to 2016? >> so i just got off the plane. i came here to be with you. i was at many events over the weekend. i think that the senator is very likely to win my district again.

which he did by a significant number. i do think he is having to work. by the way. he's all over my district he's doing five or six events before he leaves in my district alone. >> remind people. >> it's ann arbor. >> michigan. >> a significant muslim population which is supporting him. down river is barry -- i had a lot of trump voters, some are voting for senator sanders this weekend, because donald trump is telling them to. so it's a complicated district. i think senator bind has said in a lot of -- i feel the ground is -- four years ago i felt the ground moving. i was very worried. this time i think it's very competitive. the vice president doesn't get to michigan. we'll work it tomorrow. senator sanders has been working it really hard. bernie has been working it hard. i think it's fluid in the next 48 hours. >> congressman, what are the

stakes for bernie sanders on super tuesday? is it make or break? >> he needs to do well no, doubt about it. he needs to get his fair share of delegates. let me say secretary dingell has been the leader in single payer. that is something senator sanders is running on. it's going to help us in michigan. his stance on going against bad trade deals and standing up for union workers will help us. the fact that he can get trump voters is the reason why he's the most electable. >> what is your view in the event it continue to turn against senator sanders. >> i mean, even if he pulls it out in michigan, it's still going to be a close fight. which means he may split the delegates with joe biden. he is looking at sweeping across the south, if he is able to notch landslide victories. that will make the race more and more lopsided. is bernie sanders committed to saying in this if that is what unfolds and biden develops a clear lead? >> i think the race is still fluid.

lit come down to the debate on march 15th. they are finally one on one and contrast each ought. when he had 70% winning. another day another person, all we snow this is unpredictable. we finally have a one-on-one race. i think senator sanders' message will contrast well in winning the states that we need in the mid-west to win the presidency. >> congresswoman dingle, michigan is more primary in the mind of our viewers and those who follow politics closely, the big question is, is donald trump going to be able to hang onto it in 2020? where is your take on where that stands? >> i think it's competitive. the state is competitive. i this i the vote verse very strong feelings. they're worried about their jobs. we as democrats don't win it by being anti-trump. we have to worry about working people. i will disagree with you on one issue. medicare for all has become very complicated. because people don't understand it. and i have to -- i feel very

strongly, i think that's why i was elected to the congress. but i have to remind people my father-in-law wrote social security. he got called a xhup yvette when he wrote it. thesis first to introduce healthcare. i'mals in union halls, i am yelled at. people are afraid of losing their healthcare. they don't understand it. so we have to talk about nit a way that tells union workers, they don't have to worry about whether they will lose it any time. we're the only industrialized nation in the world that does not guarantee its citizens healthcare. but i'm not sure, it was an issue in nevada. and it is an issue from michigan. i'm getting it in union halls, i'm having to remind people that my father-in-law was called a communist when he wrote social security. it was one of the key authors of social security so people are, we've got to talk very, we've got to unite. the one thing stwre to do is

unite. >> that's why you are an experienced advocate for single payer. you have been making the case. senator sanders' plan would grandfather in a lot of the unions. the transition for them doesn't happen. >> he's not actually said that, though. he said specifically people will lose their private health insurance. >> he's talked about the unions, one getting the wage for what they would have and that it would not, if you look at his plan transitionings after four years. most of the union contracts would be grand fathered in and would not actually have losses. that's why a lot of folks in the unions are supporting him. the important point is this was a part of our platform until 1980. when jimmy carter ran, he had to go to the aflcio. they asked to support single payer so labor traditionally supported this, because they understand that workers should be bargaining for wages, not based on healthcare. >> there is still the reality, a lot of the union plans, they get generous benefits, negotiated for them, they would each

individually, people receive less under their plans medicare for all. >> the position is more than four-ier contracts. most are three or four years. afterwards, they would be on medicare for all. >> which is the overarching point here. >> i don't want to negotiate med compare for all here, if there is a lot of, got to write a bill that's going to take care of everybody. but it works in other countries. congresswoman debra dingle and ro conna, this is a good pair. we could put in an opinion right now. when we come back, i will talk to presidential historian jon meacham about his new book. l hi meacham about his new book try wayfair. you got this! woah. yeah! let me try! all alright, get it! blow it up! that's what i'm talking about. except that's my seat, so. all right, so maybe after the movie let's talk about that bedroom of yours!

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you've gotta try the dish soap. and we're back now with john meacham. jon, you recently wrote a piece in the "new york times," headline, "why religion is the best hope against trump" and you wrote in part quote the political hero has used the national prayer breakfast to mock the junction to love one's enemies and it's clear they're putting the supreme court ahead of the sermon on the mount. and yet history suggests that religiously inspired activism may hold the best hope for those in resistance to the prevailing

tramp yan order. that piece timed with your latest book "the hope of glory." john, explain the moment that we're facing as a country, especially for faithful americans, people of faith, in the context of this president. >> yeah, you know, america's always been at her best when we've more generously nood aundd and applied the ufrply cations of what was the most important sentenced ever originally rendered in english, thomas jefferson's assertion that all men are created equal. and every era that we want to emulate, that we openly commemorate, are areas where the story of liberty has advanced whether it's lexington-concord, app maddox, seneca falls, selma,

stone awa stonewall. you have a story that is not perfect. it is halting. the arc of a moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. it bends but it doesn't swerve. it's a slow story. at the heart of that american impulse for liberty has been a religious instability. i was in montgomery and birmingham and selma until this morning with a lot of folks you cover. it was the congressional pilgrimage with john lewis. he was on that bridge on bloody sunday because of jesus. and i think returning to that christian story actually gives us hope that we can get through the darkness of this particular hour. >> i certainly think we could all under whatever circumstances use a little bit of hope. the book is "the hope of glory," john meacham, thank you very much for being here tonight. when we come back, a last thought here. e come back, a las thought here some things are harder than you thought.

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before we go, we are so sad -- i am so sad -- to have to say good-bye to one of the core members of our team here at casey dc. he's been with us since the launch of the show. there he is with kendall brightman and john casic. i just want to say thank you, greg, so much for all of your

hard work. it really has made all of the difference. and we wish you all theest best. that's going to do it for us at casey dc. tonight at 10:00, richard engel goes inside the fight against coronavirus. but first, "what's eating america," andrew zimmern digs into voting rights and food. good night from washington. this is an msnbc special series. voting is as american as apple pie. i voted in every election since 1980. to me, the right to vote is as fundamental as the right to eat. i'm traveling through some key battleground states. >> if you change florida, you

ch