in our lifetimes. we could, potentially, if this virus really gets put under control, if health officials come out and say they've got some kind of -- you know, this quarantining, closing the nba, nhl, mlb, no march madness, if it works and we seal this off, the president announces a stimulus measure, that helps folks who lost their jobs or who are out of work. we could avoid a recession. it is unlikely. i want to be clear. it is unlikely. all the folks i talk to say recession isn't a certainty, but it is a likelihood at this point. the big question is how bad it'll be. if the president announces something big, broad, and sweeping, we could avoid a big, bad recession, but it is a real possibility. >> dion rabouin, thank you so much. we'll read axios am in a little bit. sign up at signup.axios.com. that does it for me on this friday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. anybody right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a

test gets a test. they're there. they have the tests. >> the president said that anybody who wants a test can get a testing. is that consistent with what you heard? >> no, it is not consistent right now. that's the goal, to get testing for everybody who wants testing, to be able to get it, and get it in multiple locations. that's not accurate right now. >> should he stop saying that? >> yeah. people should not say if you want a test, go get a test right now. >> a republican senator would like the president to stop lying about a national crisis. the top expert on diseases, meanwhile, is calling the government's response by its proper name. >> the system does not -- is not really geared to what we need right now. what you are asking for. that is a failing. >> a failing? >> it is a failing. let's admit it. the idea of anybody getting it easily, the way people in other countries are doing it, we're not set up for that. do i think we should be?

yes. but we're not. >> dr. anthony fauci will be our guest this morning on "morning joe." good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, march 13th. what a week it's been, joe. the past 24 hours has put the united states of america in a very different place. >> very different place. there have been a lot of cancellations, a lot of sports cancellations and, yeah, it is very disconcerting. >> local states of emergency. >> local states of emergency that are in place. it was a terrible day on wall street, but i'm starting to see recognition in areas that there hasn't been recognition in the past. that's a really good thing. willie, we saw a senator say, no, you can't get tests right now if you need them. that's important, that the truth start being told like that. dr. fauci said the same thing yesterday. said it was a failing. last night, sean hannity asked

azar, secretary azar, when can every american get a test if they want a test? secretary azar refused to answer the question. >> it's being asked. >> but it is being asked. martha mccallum, earlier in the evening on fox news asked the question, what about ventilators? we have a shortage of ventilators. how are we going to fix that? the person that was her guest just spouted off trump talking points, saying, well, this is why donald trump is doing such a great job. no, that was the talk from last week. it seems that there is an understanding, there is a seriousness, that this pandemic is serious. senior citizens are endangered. millions of lives are endangered. if we get ahead of it, if we do better than we've done over the past month, we don't have to look like italy. i saw that yesterday, willie, actually, in a very depressing day on many fronts. but i saw that as a silver lining. >> without question. without question.

society, states, local governments, schools are taking this as seriously as possible. as serious as necessary right now. we talked about this for a week now, that we have to, sadly, look past the president of the united states who, in many ways has his own interest in mind. we misstated three different things during his primetime address. he didn't talk about testing. we have new reporting that mika will get into in a second, that he wanted to slow down the testing a little bit, not introduce new testing because he worried the new numbers of cases might hurt his chances at re-election. the country is doing the right thing in spite of its president right now. >> yeah. i have to say, mika, that's another thing. sean hannity, of course, he said a lot of things last night. most things he said last night i disagreed on. he was bashing the media pretty much nonstop. obviously, it is a free country. he also talked about how this pandemic was serious and said it was legitimate that people were concerned that testing had not gotten out there yet.

i mean, see, this is what -- in a pandemic, the one thing the president said the other night i agreed on was we are all in this together. i hope the president of the united states starts acting more like we're all in this together. if it -- if we can at least have the same set of facts to start from, which is, we are in the middle of a global pandemic. this is frightening. this is a real danger to our senior citizens and our grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers, fathers, which certainly sounded like that last night on fox news. there was no talking anymore as there had been on some shows about hoaxes and media hoaxes. if we can have a debate on how to best do that, is it bans coming in and out of this country, is it this, is it that, blah, blah? i mean, as long as we're debating the same facts and everybody is just interested in one thing, and that is beating this pandemic, well, that's a good step forward for us as a

country. >> and the prevailing question that really stands to be the number one question for the entire country right now is how is it possible? how is it possible that, in some cases, desperate people cannot get tests? >> they still can't. willie, we have a good friend, and he was exposed to the coronavirus. tried desperately to get testing. couldn't do it. so they just sent himcounting t. he's got to be in lockdown for the next four days, separated from his family, because they don't have a test to tell him whether he's positive or not. he's going to be off of work for about four, five days, and people who work for him are not going to be getting a paycheck. i mean, this is -- and this is being repeated across the country. in ohio, reports they only had 1,500 in the entire state of

ohio. >> good god. >> in california, gavin newsom said, you sent me copiers without ink. yes, you gave me test kits, but you don't have the chemicals to actually make the test kits worth a damn. we need somebody, and azar, if it is not azar, he needs to quit. he needs to go home. he needs to play tiddlywinks or whatever he does at home. when will older americans be able to get a test when they want a test, to know if they're safe or not? >> yeah. what dr. fauci said yesterday, and we'll ask him again shortly here on this show, is we're not set up for this. the question is, why is the wealthiest country on the face of the earth not set up for this? you're right, that's the protocol people are getting in new york and cities across the country.

don't come into an er. don't go look for a test. we just don't have them. go home, isolate yourself, drink a lot of fluids, take an ibuprofen, treat it like you have the flu, and stay away from other people. that's the best we can do right now. >> of course, yesterday, there were reports that early on the president didn't want the testing process to go forward because he didn't want to get the positives. he knew if numbers went up, it was going to be bad for his re-election campaign. i trust that we are well beyond that. i trust that we are beyond that. but if we are beyond that, we need a federal official that works for donald trump's administration to step forward and give us a timeline. when are we going to get the tests? how quickly will our mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers get the tests? when can our children, who may be testing positive for the coronavirus, when can they know whether they are or not, so we don't have to self-quarantine them and keep them away from their parents and grandparents?

it's a lot of questions. >> a legitimate question. let's give you a snapshot of how much the rapidly spreading coronavirus is disrupting almost every aspect of public life. maryland, ohio, michigan, and now oregon have ordered schools to close statewide. kentucky's governor has recommended closures, stopping short of a mandate. the cities of san francisco and houston have also closed schools. west point has told cadets not to return from spring break on monday. there will be no school or mass for the archdiocese of washington, d.c. the mormon church canceled services worldwide. >> wow. >> in the sports world, major league baseball has delayed opening day while suspending spring training. the national hockey league paused its season. the ncaa has canceled march madness. nascar cases will continue without spectators.

formula 1 canceled its season opener. live nation and aeg, the nation's largest concert promoters suspended all tours. broadway, carnegie hall, and the met opera have gone dark. new york joins five other states in pbanning large gatherings. disneyland, disney world, disney cruises and universal shut down. late night shows suspended production. jimmy fallon and others. hollywood suspended "fast and furious" and "mulan." in the race for the white house, the president has halted his campaign rallies, while sunday's debate between joe biden and bernie sanders has been moved from arizona to cnn's washington studio to cut down on travel. which brings us to the stock market and its worst one-day

drop since black monday in 1987. exactly one month after the dow soared to an all-time market high, by one measure, the total stock market value gained under president trump is now gone. the day started with a second circuit breaker triggered this week after the s&p plunged more than 7%, just minutes after the opening bell, causing a 15-minute trading halt. the fed tried to ease investors as the markets began to slide by pumping $1.5 trillion into short-term funding markets over the next two days. however, the day continued on a decline. the dow plunging over 2,300 points, a drop of 10%, while the s&p and the nasdaq both sank over 9%. let's bring in some of the best voices on this topic. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. nbc news senior business correspondent and msnbc anchor

stephanie ruhle. >> stephanie, you look, stephanie, at what the fed did yesterday. pumped $1.5 trillion in, the market kept collapsing. it was last week, i guess, that the fed cut rates a half point to after try to stop the slide. the slide continued. investors, are they not sending the message to the white house and the world, that this is not a financial crisis, this is a health care crisis that is causing a financial crisis. stop throwing money at the problem. it is not going to fix it. you've got to fix the health care crisis first. all these markets crashing, that's the fever. that's the symptom of the underlying disease. >> that's absolutely right. joe, what the fed did yesterday was different from a rate cut. the $1.5 trillion is really to keep lending going, to make sure we don't run into a banking or a funding issue.

something to remember, when you see the markets tank like this, it is because we're finally actually addressing this health crisis. in order to address it, you basically have to put the whole country, we're putting our economy on pause. we're asking every american to sort of change almost every aspect of the way we live our lives. the sooner we do that, the sooner we can get to the other side of this. i mean, there is positive. if you look to china this morning, all 42 of the apple stores are reopening. you're seeing in south korea the numbers start to go down. the positive is now that we're actually assessing and addressing this risk, at least from corporate america, then the sooner we can do that and send everybody home sick until they get better. then we can come back. fundamentally, the economy is in much better shape than it was in '08. you said it exactly right, this is a health crisis turned into a financial crisis. it is different from where we were in '08. >> but, you know, steve rattner, the problem is right now, we

don't have testing. americans can't get tested because we have a president and a cdc that has botched this from the very beginning. until we get that testing, until we know how widespread this pandemic is in the united states of america, we can't start figuring out when companies are going to come back online. we can't start figuring out when people are going to start filling into stadiums again. we can't figure out when they're going to start spending their money again. can we? >> no. you talked about a health crisis and financial crisis. there's one crisis in between, which is an economic crisis. the financial crisis we're looking at is really a reflection of what's going on in the economy. this is very different than in '08. '08 was a financial crisis. fundamentally more or less healthy economy, and then a financial crisis. here, the economic crisis is that people have basically started to stop work. essentially, the economic

activity, as mika read off, is dropping at a dramatic pace. that is going to come at a huge cost to our economy. when i was on the show i think three or four days ago, it looked like there was maybe a 65% chance of a recession. i think today it is well over 90%. the bank economists are taking down forecasts substantially. jpmorgan is predicting negative growth in the first quarter, the second quarter. you can't have this much of a s secession of economic activity without affecting the financial markets, which see recession. have the markets overreacted or not? certainly a part of what's going on in the financial markets reflects a lack of leadership at the top, a lack of testing kits, a president who goes on television to reassure the nation and the stock market immediately rolls over. there is no sense in the wall street community that i live in, there is no sense there's any leadership here, any plan for how we're going to get out of this. that's why you see the market in

this panic stage. will it stay that way? i don't know. depends on what happens in washington. the last thing i would say is that when you have a recession, which we will almost certainly have, you need to react to that. you need to provide -- this is where washington has a job, which is to provide support to the economy in this time. talking about a bill in washington at the moment, which is a completely inadequate bill to address the broader economic questions. it may address sick leave, this or that. it is not going to stop the recession. we need a major piece of legislation out of washington. given the gridlock that has been down there for four years, there is no sign of that happening. >> what concerns me is that everybody is talking about -- and i watched cnbc yesterday -- and there are a lot of people on there talking about, oh, we need the federal government to provide this stimulus plan. we need the federal government to provide this plan to workers, et cetera. i mean, yes, we need to figure out how to provide economic

relief. again, you're just putting a bandage on a bigger problem that is going to continue to fester until you take care of the underlying problem. we need somebody telling us why we're not able to get test kits to americans. we're not able to get accurate figures on how widespread this pandemic is. we're not able to predict where this pandemic is going to go in the coming months until we begin the testing consistently. that's what is so frustrating to me right now. everybody is talking about putting together packages for economic relief. the problems are going to continue until we take care of the medical issues underneath. that starts with testing. >> joe actually sounds like the biggest investors in the market right now who are not talking about economic stimulus. the two things they are asking for are the number -- are tests, a vaccine, and simply how many people here have it?

you remember, dow futures plummeted after the president spoke. first thing he was talkingbette than europe. there were people overseas waking up to that going, sorry, you have no idea how many people have it. you haven't tested zblereveryon >> the markets are like people, they want to know what the hell is going on and where the end of this is. >> ian bremmer is president and founder of eurasia group and editor at large for "time" magazine. you've been writing a lot about china. the 42 apple stores in china are opening again. maybe it's a signal that progress is being made. what has china done? we know they've hidden a lot of the numbers. we know there's corruption there. we know it is a different kind of society than we have here. what has china done to begin at least to get its arms around coronavirus that maybe we can learn from here? >> they mishandled this desperately at the beginning, as you say. since then, the recognition that

xi jinping had personal vulnerability in not reacting effectively to coronavirus led to an extraordinary amount of direct quarantine. over 70 million people in the most severe quarantine surveillance state that we have ever experienced in the history of the world. as a consequence of that, their new cases are down to virtually nothing. double digits on a daily basis, compared to the total of almost 100,000 we've heard. that's meant their economy has started to restart. it is restarting more slowly than they would have liked, precisely because they don't want further outbreaks. it'll have an economic e implication. what is china doing? responding with propaganda effectively. against the united states, inside chinese media, the amount of anti-u.s. propaganda you're seeing is immense compared to when we had the china deal with the united states, when they were being much, much softer. >> based on what? it started there. what is the anti-u.s. propaganda? >> based on the americans going

out and saying, well, this is the wuhan flu. it is the china flu. you're seeing that from the republicans. e you're seeing it from the trump administration, president trump himself. also with some of the talk of, well, now this is bringing manufacturing back to the u.s. the official spokesperson of china yesterday came out and floated a conspiracy theory, that this came from the u.s. military. while the europeans are looking at americans and saying, how dare you announce, our ally, announce a travel ban of our citizens before you even tell us, before you even discussion it. they condemned it. chinese are going, a member of belt and road, and saying we'll provide you with medical aid, you see the plane showing up. when we go to china and say, we want you to help us with huawei in three, six months time, chinese have made a lot of ground. we're almost entering an economic recession now. the backdrop is a geopolitical

recession. we don't have the ability to respond according to fashion. we had the emergency of the central banks. they said they're monitoring the situation. there's no emergency, g-20. there's no summitry between trump and the other leaders. the lack of political resilience is an immense problem for dealing with this globally going forward. >> we don't even have the ability here to come to an agreement as to what we'd do, let alone with rest of the g-20. it is in dysfunction, affecting the markets. >> no question. >> china responded effectively after botching it at the beginning, but they did things we can't in this country. they quarantined hundreds of millions of people. got everyone's cell phone data. they used their facial recognition technology. they put people on lockdown whether they liked it or not. you know, no due process. they just did it. that's something we both don't have the tools to do nor the political will to do. >> one thing i'd mention is the restart that's happening in china right now.

we talk about the villages, but there are some companies where officials are scared about having no new case. they'll set the electricity going, get the trucks going, but they don't all have workers. the start-up in china will take time. >> steve, there's one point though. remember what joe was saying when we first started this. two days ago, we had members of the media telling america corona is a hoax, a conspiracy theory. the president was saying you should go to work a week ago. we're at a far cry. we have to acknowledge this and tell people what to do. >> i understand that. we're at the furthest other stream. there's no doubt in my mind, i can't quantify it, some percentage of what's happened in the stock market is a lack of leadership, confusion, lies being told at the top. >> civil society and state governments and local governments have filled the void at this point. >> yeah. you know, mika, you hear time and time again, steve said, that

some of this is on the president. of course, a lot of it is on the president right now. again, what you hear time and time again is markets need transparency. they hate the unknown. as we have been saying on the show for a week, the president should deliver the worst-case scenario and say, this is how bad it can get. and this is what we're going to do to try to prevent that from happening. markets, as steve, stephanie, and everybody knows better than me, markets then can count that in, can consider that, can make their decisions. if they get the bad news, then they'll prepare for that. then the markets will slowly start moving up again. they've still not been given that chance. >> you have to ask the question why that's not happening. joining us from the white house -- >> again, mika, why are there still not enough tests? the markets can't make calculations on when companies

are going to be back up online until they know how widespread the virus is. >> since this started, since this started, testing has been fundamental. for some reason, even dr. fauci says it is a complete failing. you have to ask why at this point. why are we in this situation? joining us now from the white house, nbc news correspondent hans nichols, and senior writer at "politi"politico" and co-aut "jake sherman." are we getting answers, why? >> reporter: the president tweeted and said all red tape is being cut. he seems to be blaming a lot of this on the obama administration, on their response to h1n1. when i walked in this morning, the lights were on upstairs at the white house. it's always an indication we could have hearing from the president. late last night he was blaming joe biden. this morning, it seems more a general critique of the obama administration. he is indicating that he thinks some magical solution may be happening with the fda, and that all red tape will be cut. they do have the ability to

waive some regulations. that's where the president is rhetorically this morning. we still don't have any answers really on whether or not the president's personal physician is going to order a test for him, or if he can get a testing. last night, we heard from dr. fauci saying it is all up to the plane's personal physician. the president, at least those in his inner circle, have been exposed to those who tested positive for the virus. guys? >> what? >> the president has been -- i mean, you're hearing one congressman after another, one official after another that is self-quarantining. senator scott from florida has done that because he had contact with somebody whof was a carrie. the president -- we saw the picture yesterday. wasn't he next to somebody -- >> the communications officer. >> -- who was a carrier, as well. you have officers self-quarantining and isolating themselves for having contact even less direct than the

president has had with self-people. >> look, i'll yield my time to steve and stephanie on what the market reaction will be, should the president announce a self-quarantine, but i suggest it'd be dramatic. in messaging all of this, you know, the white house is clearly on political footing. some cases they treat it like a public health crisis, and other times, especially from the president, they're treating this as a political matter. the market react and the reaction across the board would be substantial to that. i'd imagine that's playing into their calculus on whether or not they are announcing if there had been internal tests on ivanka and/or the president. >> the question is, mika, how much worse do the markets get if, god forbid, the president had coronavirus because he had first-party contact and spreads it to other people. there's a reason people self-quarantine. i do agree, i completely agree, you don't want the president doing that. it would be tough on the

markets. but if we are telling senators and congressmen, telling others, citizens to self-quarantine under those circumstances, i'm very worried about the president right now. >> all right. jake sherman, congress has power to try to help people who are suffering through this crisis. i would think they'd not go home on their week-long recess before getting it done. what is going on? >> they're going to pass today a sweeping bill. you eloud luded to it. it'll institute free coronavirus testing around the country. it'll make sure kids who are out of school get school lunches. it is not, as you also eluded to, this sweeping package that people might be expecting from congress. partially because they'll have to do this in bites. they're doing this against the back drop of a spreading crisis which they have no idea how big it is, how broad it is, how impactful it'll be on the markets or on global health. one quick thing, the president

eluded to red tape being cut. we have some details in play book this morning. fda will allow private and public labs testing in new york. they're putting someone in charge nationwide. allowing testing on private lab platforms. they are doing things to cut back on the red tape. i make this point in playbook this morning, and it is important to keep in mind, the rest of the year, the next five, six, seven months, congress going to be wrestling not only with the public health fallout but the economic fallout. in my conversations yesterday in the capitol, members of congress believe they have to bail out airlines, insurers, hotels, mortgage lenders, student debt, people with student loans who can't pay the student loans. the expectation among senior members of congress is this is going to be a very costly, broad and expansive endeavor. >> hans, let's go back to the white house and speak with you

on a question i still haven't gotten an answer to. maybe you can help me out here. we had the opportunity to get test kits s a month ago from t world health organization. we would have the data we need, be up and running, do the amount of tests south korea is doing every day, 10,000. it's all we've done in total. why did the white house say no to the world health organization test kits which would have alleviated all these problems, and we would know where we are. the markets would probably be thousands of points higher, and americans would have a grip on whether this is going to be as serious as many believe it is. >> t >>. >> reporter: the answer is probably between the protocols you have for testing americans. you hear the president talking about us being the best responders, have the best health care system. this morning, he seems to be attacking the cdc in this tweet that came out three minutes ago. i'll read it quickly. for decades, the cdc gov looked at and studies its testing

system but did nothing about it. a pandemic would never happen they hoped. he blaming president obama. it can't be both, right? the president can't stand next to cdc officials and talk about how great america's health care is, talk about the response, and then wake up on a friday morning after all this market turmoil and decide the cdc is the culprit here. they have to reconcile some of this rhetoric. we may get a chance to talk to the president later on today. he has a meeting with industry executives at 1:30 at the white house. >> part of reconciling this question, joe, i just wonder, it is safe to say that the president has not been clear every step of the way on testing. that's generous on my part. is it fair to ask, like the mueller report, like ukraine, where the whoite house worked t squash testifying, to redact things, make sure the

information isn't out there? if this is threatening trump's presidency, is it fair to ask he is putting off the inevitable, and perhaps this administration put off something that was fundamental, that could be in place, that dr. fauci calls a failing, a complete failing, is it possible this administration did it for political reasons? >> we'll be looking into it. npr actually had a report yesterday that there were political calculations. the president didn't want the numbers to go higher. the higher the coronavirus numbers, the more it would hurt him politically in the campaign. i think most americans right now that have loved ones they're concerned about will say, let the politicians and let the historians worry about that in the future. willie, i think most americans right now are concerned about what the white house is going to do now. i mean, we have heard that this coronavirus, this pandemic is dangerous.

it is bad. but it is not -- it's not the killer pandemic that many have feared for a long time. there is the possibility, i think, willie, that maybe we can cut the red tape that took so long, that caused these delays. we can cut the red tape and be better prepared for the next pandemic that comes along. there will be another pandemic coming in the next few years. it may be far more deadly than the coronavirus, where you can't just isolate people and it magically goes away, as the president says. >> i think the frustration you hear in some of the officials and the doctors' voices is the red tape probably should have been cut paback in december and not now. we're having to shut down society to prevent this from spreading further. >> exactly. >> jake sherman, we heard senator langford and other republicans come out and say, no, no, the president is wrong about this. you can't get a test whenever

you want it. we've seen republicans do the responsible thing. many of them, lindsey graham and others, kwarn tquarantining the. are there any of those people -- because we ask this question that is moot the last three years -- is there anyone around the president that can a, stsay stop, man. are there people around the president that can prevail and tell him how serious this is? this morning, koncontinuing his what if-isms. what about obama? what about his response to h1n1. it is not helpful. this is a serious moment, and the country needs him to lead. >> probably not. let's be honest. mark meadows, his now chief of staff, has an acute sense of the politics, and maybe he'll prevail that it is an important instance. what is useful to think about is how limited the president's involvement is in actual things that might help the economy and this public health crisis.

he's not called the speaker of the house once. they've not spoken. vice president mike pence, presumably, is in charge of a government wide effort to combat this. treasury secretary steven mnuchin, who should have no involvement because he is the secretary of the treasury, not the hhs secretary or anything like that, is the one negotiating with congress. donald trump is basically, at this point, a figure head, for better or worse, in this instance. it is amazing to see that he's just become a bystander, as the "new york times" put it, a passenger in the car while the rest of the administration does the actual work needed to govern. that's why there's a deal today. nancy pelosi and steven mnuchin spoke eight times yesterday on the phone. pelosi could work with mnuchin because she considers him an adult and won't speak to the president pause sbecause she ha to know relationship with him. i think the president feels besieged and under fire.

he needs somebody to blame. who cares about what the obama administration did here? i mean, he's been in charge of government for three years. anything the obama administration did he can undo. i just don't really understand it. i don't think many republicans i speak to understand it or care what we has to say about the obama-era cdc. >> "new york times" has a piece this morning saying the president has pe cobecome a bysr to a crisis. jake sherman, thank you very much. ahead on "morning joe," more about the global impact of the spread of coronavirus. what the united states can learn from italy after leaders there put the entire country on lockdown. we'll have a live report from rome. plus, as we mentioned, we will talk directly to dr. anthony fauci, a member of the white house coronavirus tags k forc task force, and one of the leading infectious disease doctors in the world. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> secretary azar has not always given the president the

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over 132,000 cases of the coronavirus and nearly 5,000 deaths in 123 countries have now been recorded. france is closing all schools as it prepares for a, quote, italian scenario. the death toll has surpassed 1,000. joining us from rome, nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. what is the latest on the ability to respond there? >> reporter: yeah, mika, it is a really difficult situation here.

it is really stressing the health system here. the health system in the north of italy, where this is really hit the hardest, is quite sophisticated. it belies a lot of the stereotypes that this country didn't have a health system adequate enough to meet the challenge. the health system in the north, in lombardy, of which milan was the cal tpital is one of the be in europe, ranking up with germany and the uk. they're still really struggling. we're well into this massive, nationwide lockdown, in which the government of italy has said 60 million people across the country need to stay at home. that's why, you know, it is almost noon here in the center of rome, and if you listen, you can't hear anything. it's totally silent. that's really surprising for this city. it is a chaotic, dynamic city. now, it is on complete lockdown. it is a chilling scenario. we spoke with some people yesterday who were walking around, getting fined by the

police. i spoke with one gentleman who was a chef at a restaurant. he had just lost his job effectively that morning. he works in this restaurant that has been shut down. all of the restaurants, bars, cafes, most businesses have been told to stay closed. he went to his restaurant to try to rescue thousands of dollars worth of food, to try to bring it home. it was all going to go to waste. he decided to stop in the street and snap a picture of how vacant the street was. police came up and had words for him. here's what he told us. >> the police fined me. >> reporter: how much? >> 60 euro, maybe 80, depends. they ask our certification of where i work. you need to have a paper, telling where you work, where you're going. limitation of your freedom, of course. >> reporter: how do you feel about this? >> it's a bit ugly. >> reporter: so this limitation of your freedom, i mean, here, we are able to walk around on the streets because we've gotten

a permission slip from the police. for most people, they have to stay at home. this gentleman was fined. a lot of people have been fined. the government has also said if you resist, that you could face up to three months in jail. the minister said they haven't imprisoned anyone for violating the lockdown, but i think as this goes on, as it goes on and on and on, weeks and weeks, we're going to start to see italians resist. then we could start seeing real police action. the mood has changed the last couple of days. we've seen more angry confrontations between the public and the police. guys? >> matt, joe scarborough here. we've seen pictures inside of italian hospitals, emergency rooms, and it looked like war zones. doctors having to basically perform triage, decide which patients had the best chance of survival, and leaving those who didn't to die.

has that situation eased up it all, or are they in a constant state of crisis. >> the situation is getting worse. it is a warning for the rest of europe. cases in germany just spiked. a couple days ago, we heard jeremy was be-- germany was bea the curve. now, it doesn't seem it's the case. once the virus insinuates itself in a small part of the population, it is difficult to stop. here in italy, we have this experiment with radical measures to try to control the spread of the virus. this huge, unprecedented the lockdown, the worst since world war ii. the virus is still spreading. it is almost as if the best efforts to stop the spread of this virus, the most severe might not help if the medical system is already overstressed and if the virus has already spread to a certain level. that's what the mathematicians are modeling.

it'll be really hard to stop once you already have a couple of cases. that's why president trump's effort to try to block travel into the u.s., it's unclear if it will work. there are already coronavirus cases in america. you can't necessarily stop what's coming. guys? >> yup. nbc's matt bradley in rome. thank you very much. >> and i just want to underline two things quickly that are important for our viewers to get out of what matt just said. the first one is, of course, that this virus is extraordinarily difficult to contain, even locked down. the numbers continue to grow. the emergency rooms continue to be in a state of chaos. they have one of the best health care systems in europe, in the world. also, we talked about matt ma tigs mathematicians being able to model the spread of the virus. they have testing. they have mathematicians, scientists, health care officials that can actually do

those models and predict what's going to happen next. we doenn't have the testing in e united states. the reason i keep repeating that is because until every american is able to get tested, instead of so few, we're not going to be able to model where this is going next. if we can't model where it may go next, we're not going to be able to bend that curve downward and protect senior citizens, protect our loved ones, protect those who are actually the most disadvantaged when it comes to health care. >> well put. another country hit particularly hard is iran. in fact, satellite images suggest the regime there is digging mass graves. as long as a football field, to handle bodies of victims. you'd think it couldn't get uglier than that. our next guest says the united states has had an even worse response than

joining us now, the director of the harvard global health institute. he's the practicing physician and also a doctor of medicine at the harvard school. he says america's corona response is unmitigated disaster that the administration has brought upon the population. doctor, let's start right there. given what you know about the data of how this virus moves and how the united states has responded, what phase are we in, and where are we headed? >> good morning, mika. so it is very painful for me to use those words. the federal response really just has been a fiasco. we've had two months. i think joe has been bringing this point up all morning. two months to get ready. we're the only major country in the world that cannot test people far more readily than we are. south korea is doing more tests every day than america has done all, you know, until today.

so things really are a mess. and the problem is, we have 1,500 cases, 1,600 cases. that's who we have identified. my best guess, and this is a guess because i don't know, we're not doing testing, but my best guess is maybe 10,000 or more americans are infected. we can't identify who they are. we can't take care of them. and we can't, you know, use a testing-based strategy to get ahead of this virus. if americans, if your viewers are wondering why are schools shutting down, why are sport events canceled, it is basically because the federal response has been so poor that we're now stuck with these very extraordinary measures, which we hope will help. i think they will help. boy are we behind the eight ball on this, and i can't believe we're here. one more quick thing. you know, the president is tweeting about the cdc. the cdc is the best public health agency in the world,

period. we all -- around the world, we look to the cdc. this is not the cdc's fault. the problem here is that the administration has been trying to downplay it, has not taken this disease seriously. a week ago, the president was saying this is nothing. not much worse than the flu. the rest of us were screaming that we are headed for a world of hurt. the public health people have been ignored. dr. fauci has been ignored until recently. we've got a real problem ahead of us. >> it is willie geist. appreciate you being here this morning. i think the question most americans from the outside who don't work in the world of medicine have is, why can't we get these tests out? this is the united states of america. we have innovators. we have means of production. we can distribute things quickly. where are the tests? the cleveland clinic is rushing out its own test, a 24-hour test from the mayo clinic, for example. these other entities are stepping into the void here. why can the united states not quickly produce these tests and get them to the hospitals that need them?

>> yeah. look, almost two months ago, w.h.o., the world health organization, put out a test kit. 60 countries decided to take it. we wanted to develop our own. fine, it's not crazy. we have a lot of capability. it's been one failure after another. look, this is not about red tape. there's always red tape in everything. the whole point of leadership is to cut through the red tape. not two months later but up front. now, we're playing catchup. we have the most innovative, most dynamic scientific community in the world. we have a phenomenal health system. but our government has been an impedence to that, not been helpful. the fda has been stopping labs from producing the tests until very, very recently. >> why, doctor? why is that? >> you know, i have to tell you, you'll have to ask the administration. i am baffled by this. i've been talking to my friends at the cdc, at the fda. they don't understand the decision-making that's happening at the senior-most levels.

it is really baffling why it is that the administration -- you know, there are, of course, theories like, well, the president doesn't want to know how many cases there are. well, you don't want to know doesn't stop the virus from spreading. the virus has continued to spread across communities in america. deciding we want to close our eyes and pray that, like, this will go away isn't a strategy. it's not going to work. >> dr. jha, where you are seated right now, you're surrounded by some of the finest medical institutions in the world in greater boston. >> yup. >> yet, if you go 50 miles west of where you're seated, it mimics much of the country in terms of medical facilities, in terms of places to go to seek treatment. what do we do about that? >> let's talk about where i'm seated. in boston, some of the best medical centers, brigham, mass general, great academic centers. if i develop symptoms of coronavirus today, and say i was at high-risk, if the question

is, if i called up my doctor today in boston and said, i need to be tested, or my doctor thought i needed to be tested, can i get tested? the answer is no, almost surely not. we have so few tests, very few people are tested. 50 miles out, it is a complete -- >> doctor, joe scar ber lboroug. are we making progress? i understand they botched things. i understand it, right? i'm not hearing azar -- azar was asked last night when they're going to get tests to people. he refused to answer the question on sean hannity's show. do you have any evidence that this white house is moving toward getting testing to americans? what the president promised several weeks ago, if you want a test you can get a test, will actually happen? >> look, vice president pence a week ago, ten days ago, has been promising a million tests are

going out. when i talked to state health officials, and when they're trying to make plans for what to do this week and next, no one knows where the numbers are coming from. no one knows when those tests are going to be arriving. everybody is starting to build their own tests because there is no faith that the federal government is going to be able to deliver on the most basic thing that iran and south korea and taiwan can deliver to its people, our federal government continues not to. there is a lack of faith, that when the vice president says we'll have a million tests -- look, when dr. tony fauci says we'll have a million tests, i'll believe him. tony fauci has more credibility than anybody else in america on this issue. but the political leaders, it's hard. they've promised this to us, and they're not delivering. >> all right. director of the harvard global health institute, dr. jha, thank you very much. kind of very, very hard to hear some of this. >> it is. it is hard to hear, and it was hard for him to actually say it. he said it hurt him to have to

say that. it is not like we -- steve rattner, it is not like we lack the technology. we obviously -- >> made choices. >> -- lack the will in the white house to get sick americans tested, still. >> look, we lack the will in the white house. i think it is also failure throughout the government in many ways. you heard the doctor talk about the w.h.o. tests that we decided not to take, for whatever set of reasons. we produced the test, didn't work, so on. this is where -- look, you can trace some of this back to the stock market. this is a lack of confidence in this government and its inability to do even the simplest things, like get a test kit out. it is remarkable. i think the responsibility really goes -- certainly starts at the top, but i think it does go fairly far down in our government. >> joe used the word, we lack the will. we also lack the ability. you might remember steve bannon, when the trump administration took the white house, talking

about deconstructing the federal government. deconstructing the existing apparatus of government. do you think that this is partly, maybe mostly, what we're dealing with now, the deconstruction, the destruction of the government that helps people? >> actually, i think you're going to find that our institutions are still pretty capable. i think there's a lot of resilience underneath the top of leadership in the u.s. government. i think that's why we eventually do get our act together. you have states, you have mayors, you've got corporations, and they have the architecture to work under. the problem is, we don't have trust in our leadership. we really didn't want a crisis under this administration. we've been lucky three years. not this time. >> trump tried to cut the cdc every budget he closed, and fortunately, he was stopped. >> he tried to do so many things with strong men leaders around the world. think about the russians, he was stopped. the story of trump is how many times he's made efforts to shoot

himself in the foot, both do me m domestically and overseas, and we are resilient. that'll be the story looking back, despite all the pain we're feeling right now, that we'll remember. >> i hope so. >> ian bremmer and steve rattner, thank you both so much. coming up, we've seen a stark contrast between what president trump and what top health experts are saying about the coronavirus. we'll talk to infectious disease expert dr. anthony fauci. as we go to break, the global pandemic is drawing clear contrasts in how world powers are handling the crisis. while the u.s. government struggles to get its testing protocols in order, other countries may have a built-in advantage. take the nation of estonia, for example. we recently spoke with that country's president, who said while there have been cases of

coronavirus in the nation, the systems already in place are limiting group exposure. >> that is the other side. estonia is somewhat corona proof. all government services are online. we don't go to offices to apply for social services or driver's license or for other things which you normally do. you can do this, everything, from afar. for example, i have signed digitally from antarctica. >> wow. >> we also discussed three cs initiative, an impressive, new effort under way to reinforce energy security, economic growth, and u.s. cooperation in central europe. secretary of state mike pompeo announced up to $1 billion in financing, as russia continues to rattle its saber in the region. you can learn more about that and see our full interview with her excellency on our site,

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when will every american, if they want a test for their peace of mind, when can they get one? the president removed the co-pays, which is a big deal in my mind. when will it be available to anybody who wants it, any place, any time? >> he did get the co-pays removed on the tests. it is getting better and better every day. we have the private sector involved, and it'll make it a more seamless experience. we're already seeing in washington, colorado, and minnesota, and now in new rochelle, new york, drive-through sampling, so you can get sampled. the test will get sent away, and you'll get those results. we're making it a more seamless

experience each and every day. >> how concerned are you that when the numbers do start to rise, which dr. fauci told us to expect, there will be enough icu units, enough ventilators to help the people who do get sick in this country? >> that's why we have emergency prepared system. you know, we're used to dealing with disasters. if we look at some of the diseases that have happened around hurricanes, in puerto rico, in florida, there is a system in place to make sure that folks that are on the front lines have the equipment and the supplies they need. >> are you saying we do have enough? >> one thing we're doing is have rapid dialogue with health care providers. >> i understand that. >> the other thing we've focused on is -- >> how -- >> make sure people understand, before you go to your doctor's office, you can call your doctor on the phone and have a discussion with them. they can tell you whether you need to come in or not. that's really important because we don't want people to have to travel unnecessarily if they're not feeling well. >> one more time, are there

going to be people in this country who don't get a ventilator if they need one? are you concerned the physical equipment needed to serve the people who will get sick is out there? can you reassure everyone tonight that there is not a shortage of ventilators or icu units? >> that's why the president has taken such bold and decisive action, right? we're not waiting for this to get worse or be a crisis in our health care systems. that's why the mitigation strategies that he announced last night, limiting travel from europe, not allowing that. we've given travel advisories on cruise ships. that's why we're taking all this action, because we don't want to put stress on the health care system. >> okay. that's not a direct answer to the question, but it sounds like a hope that there won't be enough sick people and we won't run out of ventilators because we have mitigated. we certainly hope that's the case. >> whoa. >> wow. >> president trump -- >> hold on. hold on. >> -- lashed out --

>> hold on. martha mccallum went back at her -- >> three times. >> -- three times. she talked about -- the answer was, instead of ventilators, she talked about rapid dialogue. we're going to have rapid dialogue. >> nobody knows. >> willie, the head of hhs was asked a very direct question. sean hannity asked a question that followed up on what the president said. if you want a test, you can get a test. sean hannity asked the question. i think the most important question, actually, that americans want to know right now. if i want a test for my parents, if i want a test for my grandparents, if i want a test for my child, for my boy or girl that have an underlying health condition, can i get it? azar didn't answer. what did he say?

he said, we're going to try to make it, quote, a more seamless experience. this, this is why the markets are freaking out. this is why the markets have lost the majority of what they gained under donald trump as president. these questions have to be answered on ventilators, hospital beds. the cdc, willie, reporting in the "new york times," said up to 21 million people in america could be hospitalized because of this pandemic. 21 million people. we have 925,000 hospital beds in this country. that means over 20 million american americans could be without hospital beds. we need answers. none of the president's men or

women are giving answers. in the to quote fake media, but to hosts on fox news. >> to sean hannity, of all people. >> to sean hannity. >> he's asking a good question there, and he didn't get an answer. >> martha mccallum. >> the reason you see tap dancing from white house officials and people working around donald trump on this is, there is no good answer. if someone is sick and can they get a test? it is a respouounding no. you can't get a test if you're not feeling well. go home and isolate yourself. that's the best we can do right now. >> like i said before -- >> oh, isolate, okay. >> -- i had a friend who couldn't get the test. they said sh , just go home. willie, here's the thing, all right? everybody screws up. everybody makes mistakes. every president makes mistakes. every administration is asleep at the switch from time to time, all right? okay, you screwed up. we get it. even sean hannity said last

night, the white house screwed up on testing. okay, great. so what are you doing now? >> right. >> to assure americans, to make sure that we can actually see who is sick, so the mathematicians, like they're doing in italy, can game this out, to figure out how to stop 21 million americans from being hospitalized with the pandemic. and to make things better. what are they doing now? we're getting no answers from the people in charge. >> did you notice a tick in the official who was talking to martha mccallum? when martha asked for the third and fourth time for a direct answer about ventilators and physical equipment, she said, well, the president has taken bold action, like the travel ban yesterday. they reflexively go to, i better praise the president of the united states because that's my first job here, and make people think everything is okay. when that is the initiative

you're sent out there with, to protect the president and create the appearance that things are fine, that is not what you want in crisis management. >> joe, take a fweguess -- >> that answer, mike, was from last week. >> mike barnabicle is here. >> somebody should tell her even the president of the united states is now admitting this is a pandemic, and we need to move forward. that's not an answer anymore, everyone inside the white house. >> take a guess as to why they have basically the same answer, repeatedly ducking the question, three times from martha mccallum. it is because they know that the president of the united states is spending his days and nights watching them on fox, getting ready to criticize their performance, and tweeting about past errors the cdc did notccui errors in the past that got us into the situation we're in now. blaming the obama administration

for where this country is right now. that's where we are as a nation. >> this information threatens his presidency. it is easy math when you look at the patterns of president trump. >> well, in this case, as john that lemire wrote a couple days ago, viruses cannot be bullied. pandemics do not collapse at the sight of a unified republican senate. it is facts. the president has to deal in facts. i am hopeful he is moving in that direction. i'm hopeful that other members of his administration are moving in that direction. they certainly recognize now that this is not a media hoax. this is a pandemic. that is a big step forward. at least we can all have the same conversation about the 21 million americans and the senior citizens from florida to arizona who are endangered because of this. gene robinson, you're writing

about what the markets are obsessing about. guess what? it's not like it's not profit, corporate profits. the markets are obsessing about the testing. they're obsessing about, like, not knowing how -- it's like stephanie ruhle said earl everthevearlier this morning. if you talk to the most powerful ceos in america, they're not talking about financial situations. they're saying, we don't know how big this is going to get. we can't project out what the next quarter looks like, what the next two quarters la erers , what the next three quarters look like. they're making decisions that are going to damage the economy because they're flying blind. there are no tests out there right now. >> yeah. >> americans can't get the tests if they need them. azar wouldn't answer sean hannity last night. do you have any information? when can americans get a test if they want a test? well, not now. who knows when?

you know, this is the -- this is where the problem starts. i mean, obviously, this administration didn't create this virus, didn't create this problem, but it begins with the testing. we have to know how widespread it is, where clusters are, who has it. tom hanks is in australia right now, receiving -- in isolation, receiving treatment. he and rita wilson. because he happened to be in australia when he fell ill. was easily tested. was quickly found out that he had the coronavirus. he's been tested. had he developed a cough or whatever it was here in the united states, he would still have no idea. the people he is in contact with would have no idea that he has the coronavirus because we don't -- we aren't doing the testing.

that's -- it's shocking to me, you know, that the cdc dropped the ball here. the administration has completely botched it. here we are. we're still waiting for the tests. to martha mccallum's question about, will we have enough ventilators, do we have enough icu beds in a worst-case scenario, the answer is no. i mean, the very clear answer is no, we don't. no country does. that was the problem in china initially. that's the problem in italy, which is a first-world health care system right now. it would be the problem in the united states if we don't really take seriously this campaign of social distancing, if we don't flatten this curve of new cases. that's what we're about here. it would be -- we need a better -- a much better narrater for this crisis.

we need somebody to kind of explain where we are and where we're going and why we're going there and what the consequences are if we don't go there. and we have donald trump. we have, you know, a maniacal -- >> right. >> -- you know, reality tv star who is up in the white house residence this morning tweeting about the obama administration. give me a break. >> yeah. i will say, willie, we do have dr. fauci. our previous guest this morning said they can't listen to what a lot of people say inside the white house, but dr. fauci, obviously, it's been great hearing his testimony before congress. he's been straightforward. he's been telling the truth. i actually have just heard over the past five minutes from inside the white house that they expect progress on testing today. we can only wait, watch, and

hope. >> i guess the question is, how did we get here? we're now in the middle of this crisis, trying to race out the tests. we'll hear from dr. fauci in a couple minutes. he'll be with us live. we've also been talking a lot about how american life has ground to a halt during this outbreak. the sports world, the most stark example, the back cover of "new york post," march 12th, 2020, the day the sports world stopped. beginning wednesday night with the nba, and across yesterday, the sports world was forced to adjust to the realities of the global coronavirus outbreak. the nba season was suspended after the utah jazz all-star rudy gobert tested positive for the virus. like dominos, leagues began to fall. nhl season was suspended indefinitely. it shared many of the same venues with the nba. march madness was next with the ncaa cancelling the men's and women's basketball tournaments. this shortly after the power five leagues canceled their own

conference tournaments, with the big east pulling the plug at halftime of st. john's matchup with craeighton at madison jarse gard garden. pga tour shut down. mls suspended for 30 days. european soccer leagues from the premier league to the champions league postponed their seasons this morning. major league baseball canceled spring training schedule and pushed opening day back by at least two weeks. joining us now, best-selling author and columnist, mike lupica. we've been talking about the void we feel from sports missing in our lives. you turn on the tv and need a break from the politics and what's happening in the world, and it's missing. the nba took the lead and set this in motion. >> you know, adam silver, commissioner of the nba figured out something, willie, and we see it now with the federal

government. if you don't get ahead of your own narrative, it will run you over. this goes with everything you all have been talking about this morning. how did further disaster get averted in the nba? because rudy gobert got tested. they had tests available, and they found out that he had tested positive for the coronavirus. it was ironic it was gobert, who apologized for being frivolous about this. he seemed to buy into the theory that this was trivial. turned out to be not having trivial. silver got out ahead of it. you're right, then all of the dominos began to fall. willie, here's the other thing, i always thought it was counterintuitive from the start that empty arenas were somehow going to mitigate this problem. only the people in the stands might transmit it. that changed when they found out

about rudy gobert and one of his teammates, donovan mitchell. >> you've been ina and out of stadiums your whole life. the impact it'll have for people li working at the stadiums. major league baseball plays 162-game stechedule, every day schedule. nobody seems to know what is going to happen with the schedule, given the ethereal nature of the virus, where it is going, how long it'll be with us. think of the people. talk about the people who you know who work at these stadiums, who are now going to be without a living. >> yeah. i mean, mike, when we talk about sports, we know that it is a non-essential part of our lives that feels extremely important. i saw today that kevin love of the cleveland cavaliers had contributed $100,000 to arena workers. those are the people who are going to suffer.

yes, spring training is going to disperse now. everybody will go home. at some point, the baseball season will start. i'm not sure we'll see nba ba basketball until the playoffs. it's those people, vendors, ticket takers, all those people. this is a different kind of at-risk situation for them. it is financial risk. >> yeah. you know, you're in a place right now, mike, down in west palm, you're in a place where economies depend all across south florida and central florida, a lot of these towns depend on, you know, the 30 days that spring training takes place. tourists flood in from across america. they come down, and their entire business model is built on the money they make over 30 days in spring training. this is really a great microcosm for the economic pain, i believe, the possible recession

that will be coming this next quarter, because of the coronavirus. this is going to be absolutely devastating for communities around these parks that have built themselves up over the past 30, 40 years based on one month of baseball tourism. >> joe, every year, you see it. i was at the first day of spring training games this year in jupiter. standing out in the concourse when they play the national anthem, looking at a full ballpark and thinking, it is like the magic kingdom in florida and arizona every year. it's like the circus comes to town for a month, and then it leaves, but it is an essential part of the economy of these two states. again, to watch baseball shut down, the only equivalency i can come up with, and it only lasted a week, was after september 11th, when sports shut down then. basically until mike piazza hit

a home run at shea stadium. this will be much longer than that. all these deadlines that we hear are completely arbitrary. two weeks, three weeks, a month. >> yeah. >> sports has become one more capital of what my dear friend william goman said. nobody knows anything. we're all speculating at this point. >> all right. thanks so much, mike lupica. we appreciate it. speculating also continues when it comes to the political world. john heilemann, we were going to have a debate with the audience in phoenix. then the audience was removed. now, the debate will be in washington, d.c., cnn headquarters. correct me if i'm wrong. >> yup. >> and the bigger problem, i would guess, would be for a candidate like bernie sanders, who is so fueled by crowd sizes, so fueled by that emergency and the huge, massive rallies he has across america, that now a quietness has settled over both campaigns and things are a bit

surreal. how is it changing the dynamics when you're talking to both campaigns, the biden campaign as well as the sanders campaign? >> joe, they've both been off the trail since tuesday. sanders and biden, they both shut down events on tuesday. went back home basically or back to headquarters on tuesday night. there's nothing really planned going forward. of course, totally unusual. it's the second time now in this 2020 campaign where an external event has knocked the campaign off of its normal axis. first with the impeachment back in january and now this. this, obviously, a bigger global deal. you've got bernie sanders, who i think sees the writing on the wall in terms of the delegate math, already understands that he has lost essentially the democratic nomination. will have this debate sunday night. recognizes that, you know, not only is the math against him, but this dynamic. on a practical level, if you were trying to wage a war and

fight this out, try to -- you'd need a miracle for sanders. if he's going to do that, the only way you can generate that would be through having to win big, big, upset landslides in states. bernie sanders would generate his grassroots campaign. the energy, going and having the big rallies from state to state. he's not going to be able to do that. on top of that, you have the other thing, which is that the appetite in the party, it has been clear the last two tuesdays, the rallying behind joe biden, the desire on large parts of the party to shut this down, to coalesce behind joe biden. that's what the voters -- the voters have spoken the last two tuesdays. there's no reason to think they won't continue the same way. that's about a desire to move forward, for the democratic party to get behind its nominee and start to move to the general election. move to taking on donald trump. this global pandemic and the domestic elements of it, donald trump's failures of leadership

that are on display, you've been talking all morning, we've been talking for days, it increases the urgency in the party to start to -- if the party is with joe biden, let's get to it. let's move on to this point. get behind joe biden. start to focus on this guy in the white house. i think the pandemic on those two levels, practical and political, are making it essentially impossible for bernie sanders to continue much beyond this debate on sunday and maybe the contests this tuesday. i imagine we'll probably see this race wrap up if the tuesday contests go the way we think they'll go, which is very much in joe biden's direction. >> you know, the dynamics were breaking against bernie sanders over the last couple of weeks. starting in south carolina, then super tuesday, then the elections this past tuesday in michigan and the other states. m mississippi and the other states. when you're in a campaign like that, you need to dramatically change the dynamics.

when the campaign is frozen by an outward event like this pandemic, that is next to impossible for bernie sanders. as john said, his difficult situation is made almost impossible now by the developments, outside developments, over the past few weeks. >> it reminds me of 2008 when john mccain needed a reset, and the financial crisis took over everything. his response did not engender him, necessarily, any momentum, any bump. in september, at a time he needed it. so i agree, and i don't see how bernie sanders gets the reset that he needs. it would be just absolutely incredible if he could manage some kind of extreme turnaround and just start sweeping state after state after state, after getting shut out in counties in michigan and mississippi.

you see biden's total dominance at this point in the race. this pandemic doesn't seem to be slowing. if anything, what we've seen from the trend lines in italy and other countries, the next two weeks are going to be pretty momentous in terms of how the future is going to look with coronavirus containment. bernie sanders really is going to probably get overshadowed by the pressing pandemic that the country is grappling with, and the world, too. >> yeah. mika, it is interesting, also, saw jeff weaver on a big interview, and he said matter-of-factly, that if joe biden wins the nomination, bernie sanders will endorse him and will be working hard to get him elected. i think donald trump's disastrous initial response to the coronavirus has shown how critical it is that democrats

come together and do wh they at can to defeat donald trump. it's changed the dynamics of this entire race. again, it's been unfortunate for bernie and the campaign politically, just because it has frozen things in place, when joe biden had extraordinary momentum. he still does. up next, we're working on getting dr. anthony fauci. we're going to have an interview with him and get the latest on where we stand with the coronavirus outbreak and the possibility of mass testing. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. ♪ i want to rock! (rock!)

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welcome back to "morning joe." 29 past the hour. we are joined now by the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases, dr. anthony fauci. thank you very much for joining us this morning. >> doctor, thank you so much for being here today. we really, most importantly, we

want to thank you on behalf of our family and loved ones and seniors across america. we want to thank you for the service you're providing to america. it means a lot to all of us. >> thank you. thank you. >> so where are we right now? we obviously have stumbled. we can all talk about what we haven't done over the past month, but let's talk about where we are right now and what you think the next few weeks are going to look like for most americans. >> well, with regard to the virus itself, the next few weeks for most americans is obviously what you're going to see is an acceleration of cases. there's no doubt about it. that's how these outbreaks work. when you look at the historical perspective of these types of outbreaks, they go along like this, then they start to come up, and then they take a big spike, they peak, and they come down. if you don't do anything. if you try and interfere, either by preventing influx of cases from the outside, like with travel bans, which we're doing,

as well as containment and mitigation, the kinds of things of physical separation of people, what you hope to do is to get that peak become a little bit of a hump. now, that hump is going to be still a lot of people are going to be infected, and a lot of people are going to get sick. hopefully, it will be much, much less than the major peak. two things we're looking for. a, things are going to get worse before they get better. b, what's happening now with many more tests that are going to be going out very, very shortly, with people now very seriously taking containment and mitigation into effect, hopefully we'll be able to blunt that peak. that's what i see in the next few weeks. >> let's talk about the tests in a moment, but first, obviously, i want to talk about your testimony. it made a big difference with the nba. i think every other sports organization, deciding to shut down for a while. i've read reports that actually

closing down schools, which the french just did yesterday, k through 12 and the colleges, acts welcome likealmost like a against massive spreading of the pandemics. do you agree with that? would you recommend, whenever possible, schools k through 12, colleges, community colleges shut down for the next three weeks or so? >> i think you need to do it proportionately. if you have a considerable amount, or even the beginnings of community spread in your community, clearly you need to do very aggressive mitigation procedures. if you have less -- you can start doing something. physical separation, a lot of crowds, don't do unnecessary travel, the kinds of things like telework, it is all fine. more force ful mitigation shoul be more proportionate. in regards to what the effect is, even though we know because we have experience now with other countries, that children, although they get infected, they

really, unlike influenza, they do not necessarily at all get serious disease. in fact, if you look at the history of what we have seen, children do very well. the only problem is when they get infected, and schools can be a breeding ground for that, they go home and infect grandma, grandpa, or a relative or someone who might be in a more vulnerable position. that's the rational for shutting schools. >> yeah. let's move on to the testing question. obviously, not your domain. you expressed a concern that a lot of americans have expressed, that we have failed as a country over the past month to move forward as quickly as possible. do you have any information about when americans will be able to walk into their doctor's office and get a test if they need a test? >> yeah. the way things are going right now, looking forward, there's been a major push to embrace the

private sector. that's something you absolutely need to do when you want a much broader capability of testing. right now, the fda, secretary azar, the cdc, all of us together have now been pushing with the task force, so within -- and i would say, you know, it is dangerous to give times, but i would think within a week, we're going to start seeing a real acceleration of testing. as we go two, three more weeks, it'll be much, much more. i think we're going to see a much different situation than we saw just a few weeks ago. >> obviously, for organizations, dr. fauci, across the country, schools, et cetera, it is hard to make decisions without testing, without information. >> right. >> they're flying blind. >> right. >> that leads to the question of self-quarantining. how important -- you hear of some people making the decision to isolate for two weeks. how important is it to self-quarantine if you think you

may have been exposed? >> well, i mean, obviously, if you feel that you're exposed, first of all, if you get sick and feel sick, you should stay at home. make a phone call to your health care provider, to the clinic, to the emergency room. explain to them that you are feeling badly, and figure out a way, how to safely get tested. the idea of someone in an airy of the country that is not having community spread, to all of a sudden now start to really self-quarantine, that's a bit much. what you should do is try to physically separate yourself from unnecessary interaction with large crowds. >> right. >> unnecessary travel. particularly -- and i want to underscore -- particularly if you are an individual who falls into the vulnerable category. the elderly or -- and/or individuals with underlying conditions. chronic congestive heart failure, heart disease, diabetes, et set rarks cetera.

the most vulnerable need to be much more serious in separating themselves from the general public. >> right. i appreciate that. that answer was for people who are feeling symptoms, any type. what about if you feel you've been exposed to somebody who has coronavirus, who has tested positive? sit importan is it important, is it mandatory you self-quarantine? >> if you feel you've been exposed, you should, first of all, try to get tested. that's for sure. you should immediately, in lieu of getting tested, within the next few minutes, try as best as you can to self-isolate yourself. >> dr. fauci, willie geist. we appreciate you takingpiggy-b said, the president at mar-a-lago over the weekend was standing with and had physical contact with someone from brazil who had been diagnosed with coronavirus. should the president himself be tested for coronavirus? >> i leave that to the president's physician.

they have a very good white house physician and physician staff there. when you have a situation of a patient/doctor relationship, the advice for that should come from the white house physician. >> generally speaking, if i were standing next to someone who had been diagnosed with coronavirus, should i isolate myself and find a test, as well? >> yes. >> okay. that goes for the president likely, in theory at least? you'll leave it to his doctor? >> i'm going to leave it to his physician, who is a very good physician. >> okay. dr. fauci, the president said yesterday that there were 1 million coronavirus tests out there with 4 million, he said, coming in the next few days. is that an accurate number? >> the number of what's out there is accurate. the difficulty was the connection between the people and the process and connecting them with actually implementing the tests. it was the reason why people, as you know, are calling in, saying i tried to get a test and couldn't get it. hopefully that's behind us. looking forward, as i mentioned a moment ago, we should start

seeing an escalation of capability of getting tested. >> that's the disconnect a lot of people in this country, i think, see when they hear you say that. there are a million tests out there and, yet, for most people, new york city, any other city they want, if they go in and say, i need to be tested for coronavirus, they're told, we just don't have them. you have to go home, isolate yourself, take an ibuprofen and drink fluids. where is the dis conneconnect, y isn't it connected? >> it is connected now. there was a disconnect before, for sure. we have to admit that and it is unfortunate. it is the right direction now. there was a disconnect, where people hear a test can be available to anybody, and they go to the doctor's office and didn't get it. that's unfortunate. where we're looking now is forward. hopefully in the next few days to a week or so, it is going to be a major escalation. >> what's changing, dr. fauci? what gives you that confidence that it is now changing, that a week from now, anyone who walks into a hospital or goes to see a doctor can get a test for

coronavirus? >> i'm not saying that anyone and everyone. i'm saying it'll be markedly improved. what has changed is that there's been a major involvement of the private sector. companies that generally do these kinds of tests for a living are now going to be majorly involved in getting this to the public. before, it was mostly on the burden of the cdc as a public health organization. there's a lot of commercial issues out there that can be involved. that's the thing that's going to change. it is getting the private sector involved. >> dr. fauci, let's move to another area. again, these are a couple of areas that, obviously, i think will help us be more prepared for the next pandemic. we talked about testing. let's talk about ventilators. obviously, i'm sure you're concerned. we see what's going on in italy right now. cdc, "new york times" reporting said we have 2.5 to 21 million

people in hospitals. only have 950,000 hospital beds. obviously, a massive shortage of ventilators to take care of a pandemic. what should we be doing to not only alleviate whatever suffering we can in this pandemic, but to prepare for the next pandemic? >> you know, we have a pandemic preparedness plan that was put into effect back when we had the concern about the bird flu, the h5n1. you might remember that. it was put into effect and made us much better prepared. we have things in the strategic national stockpile. many of the elements you just mentioned are there. right now, if you compare to where we were 20 years ago, we're much better prepared. but when you have something that potentially can be a really dramatic type of pandemic, the way they're seeing in italy right now, systems could be overrun. when we get through this, and we will get through this, we've got to go back and say, you know,

we've been talking about this happening. we've got to be making sure that we never, ever let the strategic national stockpile get underfunded. we have to do that. we have a lot of stuff in the strategic national stockpile, more than people realize. even that can get overwhelmed when you have a major outbreak. >> you know, we look at that he has countries across the globe. they give us a good warning about what may be coming our way. you've talked about italy. are we following the path of italy right now, or south korea, china? based on what you've seen, based on the numbers. i mean, we have seen people follow the lines up and say it looks like we're following the path that italy has taken, unfortunately, over the past month. any idea based on science which direction we're heading? >> sure. well, yeah, exactly. if you do nothing, and you wait too long to institute aggressive containment, mitigation, and

preventing from outside sources coming in, the way we did with china and that we're now doing with europe, that's critical. what happened with italy, unfortunately, and i say that with great pain because i have so many friends and colleagues who are over there right now, people that i've trained myself, what happens is that they did not prevent the influx of cases. before they could even get started, their peak was up here. when you approach the peak up here, it is much, much more difficult to get it to come down. if you're going like this, and you know if you leave it alone, it will peak, if you start right here, to do aggressive measures, you may, instead of making the peak do that, you get a little of a hump. now, that hump is still going to be a lot of people getting infected, sick, and maybe etven dying. much less than what italy is going through now. what i'm saying is that we're trying to avoid -- >> have we started early enough, our aggressive containment

strategy? has it started early enough to avoid that peak that italy is experiencing? >> well, as i mentioned, there are two components of that. there is preventing from out to in, and there is what you do mitigation in. clearly, early on, we made a travel ban with regard to china. that was a very smart move right there because what that did was prevent a major influx from china. today, the new china is europe. europe now is the major element, the major geographic component that is now seeding other countries throughout the world. that's the reason we made the difficult but appropriate decision to have a travel ban on the european countries. we are definitely ahead of the curve on that. what we've got to continue to do is within now, the kind of mitigations you're hearing about. separation physically from large crowds. where appropriate, closing cool

schools, teleworking, and things like that. >> dr. fauci, thank you. thank you for your service to this country. we all greatly appreciate it. >> very much. >> thank you. thank you very much. willie geist, thoughts? >> well, i think dr. fauci is the person who should be out there every day talking about this. he's knowledgeable. he's experienced. he speaks in facts. he should be the face of this crisis and the person handling it. not someone who is protecting his own political hide with every answer and tweet he gives. encouraging news about the testing in a week or accelerate. testing is not the solution or an end to something. that's just identifying the scope of the problem. from there, you attack the problem. >> you know, dr. fauci has been at this for 50 years. >> yeah. >> 50 years he's been serving this nation. i have to tell you, when he speaks, he's telling you the truth. >> yes. >> very direct, very

informative. opposed to what you get out of the white house, unfortunately. you want to tell the president of the united states to stop lying about this. my own personal reaction when i hear anthony fauci speak to this issue is i fear that he might get fired for telling the truth. >> absolutely. exactly what i worry about. >> he's working in an administration, john, that, you know, it could happen. >> literally this morning on the way in here, i thought that, interviewing anthony fauci. he is a classic person in the trump administration with a target on his back. at any moment, donald trump is watching tv all day long, given that he is a bystander in the administration, according to the "new york times," hearing us praise that person, he is the guy who donald trump -- if history holds, it is a guy donald trump tries to get rid of. >> at least history has changed, hasn't it, over the past several weeks? 75%, 80% of the president's

gains in the stock market since he became president of the united states have been wiped out. the president and the people around him understand that they need dr. fauci out there. what he does is, yes, he may say things that contradict the president from time to time, but voices like that calm the financial markets. voices like that make people who are deciding whether the market is going to go up 2,000 points or down 2,000 points, it makes them believe, okay, maybe we're starting to treat this pandemic with a seriousness that it requires. >> joe, i pray that donald trump understands that. i hope that he understands that there would be such a huge public outcry if he did try to fire a career servant like dr. fauci, who is trying to save lives, and is calming the public by giving factual information, by not stoking fear but giving

an honest assessment, a straightforward assessment of the lay of the land when it comes to combating this coronavirus. i personally feel comforted whenever dr. fauci is going through, step by step, what the administration is doing and is addressing, honestly, the shortcomings to date, and how they are trying to fix and make it better going forward, and help stop and lessen the brunt of this virus. >> gene robinson, what are your thoughts about dr. fauci and what he said today? >> well, you know, i said earlier that we needed a narrater for this crisis, someone to tell us where we are, where we're going, what could happen, what we want to happen. dr. fauci is that narrator. he should be out there every day, telling us where we are as we change our lives in response to this pandemic.

i also detected, frankly, the worry in his voice. this is a serious situation. listening to him, i just encourage everyone to take it seriously. not to panic but to take it seriously. we have a chance to mitigate this crisis. we have a chance to make it not a catastrophe like we have seen in china and italy. we have to take that chance. we basically get one shot at it. avoiding that peak that he kept talking about, that peak that overwhelms the health care system and leads to many deaths. >> and i would say, don't want to sound too glib here, but we, of course, are looking to our leaders, looking to the president of the united states and those around him, to help guide us through this crisis, to provide the supplies and the help, whatever they can provide. that's critically important. it is also critically important every day, mika, that we do our

part. wherever possible, we do socially separate. whenever possible, we keep a distance from other people. we wash our hands repeatedly. we don't move our hands to our face unless we washed our hands with any bacterial soap. we have to make sure -- or soap of any kind. we also need to make sure we cover our mouths when we sneeze or when we cough. there are a lot of small things we need to do, and we're starting to see, and i'm very glad to see this, mika, there are local leaders, leaders of sports, commissioners of sports, i mean, that are starting to make tough decisions. local schools are starting to make tough decisions. here's the deal, yes, our children, thank god, unless they have underlying issues, our children are not as susceptible to this pandemic as the elderly are. if a child comes back from school and he is carrying the virus, as dr. fauci said, if he

comes across somebody whose resistance is down, if he comes across a senior citizen, if he comes across -- or she comes across her grandmother, grandfather, that puts the elderly in elderly in danger, seniors in danger, people with underlying conditions in danger. we have a responsibility ourselves also over the coming months to do what we can to minimize the spread of this coronavirus. i think he asked a really good question, willie asked a really good question about the president himself, does he lead by example. >> he doesn't appear to be. i mean he was exposed to someone who was diagnosed with the coronavirus, stood next to him, took a picture with him. now, you know -- even we know from time we spent with him long ago, he definitely uses purell and has lots of people -- >> yes, he does. >> but he was exposed, and now he is working with many people who are in the age group that is at risk of really suffering from the coronavirus, of actually

being hit hard by it, and people model their behavior after their leaders. it is at this point a legitimate question as to why the president has been exposed and some of his advisers have been exposed to people and some of them are choosing to continue to expose themselves to other people. >> well, his chief of staff, incoming chief of staff self-quarantined. >> some are making that responsible decision. >> scott has made that decision as well. i think actually -- i'm sure the white house doctors are monitoring him at all times, and you bring up a very good point. i've actually eaten one meal with him before, and in that meal before the start of it he had a stack of -- and this was several years ago. he had a stack of -- before he was president he had a stack of wipes, and he is constantly washing his hands. he has been made fun of for being obsessive about hygiene, being ocd about his hygiene.

in this case that's a very good thing, and more americans actually need to follow that example in the coming weeks and months so we can try to contain this virus and not end up in a situation where you see italy. >> still, it was direct exposure. >> right. >> now, house speaker nancy pelosi and treasury secretary steven mnuchen failed to reach a deal yesterday on a sweeping aid package for americans affected by the coronavirus, although both sides hope to come to an agreement later today. joining us now a member of the senate foreign relations and judicial commission, democratic senator chris coons of delaware. senator, do you think there will be a package that helps the american people passed today, put together today. >> >> good morning, mika. yes, i am optimistic that speaker pelosi, who continues to lead in responding to the crisis, will be able to hammer out an agreement with treasury secretary mnuchen. it is regrettable that president

trump continues to nurse a grievance against speaker pelosi and so he's not even spoken to her during this developing crisis. i do think that we got to see a sharp contrast in recent days between former vice president biden, who delivered a fact-based, science-based, transparent enactable plan for how we should respond and president trump's rambling and at times inaccurate address from the oval office the night before last. i am optimistic that we in congress will come together in a bipartisan way and promptly pass a targeted and needed response to this developing pandemic. >> hey, senator. it is willie geist. good to see you this morning. >> good to see you, willie. >> what does a targeted response look like from your point of view as congress gets together and how does it help in the immediate term? we need things like test right now. beyond injecting fiscal stimulus

and putting money into the system, what does it do to the medical problem, the medical crisis we are facing right now? >> first, we have to make it clear to any american who is sick or may be sick that we're going to make available to them paid sick leave so they stay home. because of the president's persistent attacks on the affordable care act, millions more americans don't have health insurance today, and i have joined with other senate democrats in producing a bill that would ensure that all tests and treatment for covid-19 would be free to individuals. they wouldn't pay co-pays or they would be able to rapidly enroll in health insurance if they don't currently have it. a part of the package speaker pelosi is pressing that i also support that former vice president biden also supports is sick leave that allows individuals to stay home and assistance through the snap program that would make sure that children who only get a good meal at school are able to

get food at home because in many locations around the country, willie, we see schools closing and children having to stay home. >> okay. >> as you just heard from dr. fauci, the most important containment thing we can do is to cancel large public events and have people stay home. we have to make that easier, particularly for the people who will be impacted, the folks who work at arenas, the folks who work in hospitality, the folks who work in travel, the individuals we need to show compassion and support for. >> okay. senator, those people that you just mentioned, people who if they stay home they can't work because their work is not capable of being done outside of the home. >> that's right. >> what do we do about unemployment benefits for those people who lose their jobs? >> we change unemployment in a way that makes it able for them to get it easily and without having to go through long administrative processes. there are a number of proposals that speaker pelosi put forward

yesterday that would accomplish this goal. i do also think there's an openness to supporting some loan deferrals and short-term payments for small businesses that are directly impacted by coronavirus. what i don't support is the kind of across-the-board payroll tax cut that president trump was pressing for. a payroll tax holiday from today through the end of the year would cost $800 billion that would have to be repaid to the social security trust fund and wouldn't help people who are hourly, who are laid off, who have to go home as a result of this. so i don't think it would be an appropriated targeted relief. >> all right. senator chris coons, thank you very much for being on the show. thank you for the update. coming up, how the coronavirus is rocking major u.s. institutions as another state closes schools. we will have that update straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ ♪

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if an american is coming back or anybody is coming back, we're testing. we have a tremendous testing set up where people coming in have to be tested. and if they are positive and if they're able to get through, because if they're -- frankly, if they're not, we're not putting them on planes if they're -- if it shows positive. but if they are -- if they do come here, they have to -- we're quarantine -- it is going to be a pretty strong enforcement of quarantine. look, the key is you have to have separation. we have to have separation or this thing takes longer to go away. >> that is the president of the united states falsely claiming -- meaning it is not true -- that americans returning to the u.s. from europe have to be tested for coronavirus. that would be great, but it is not true. a senior administration official tells "the washington post" that passengers will be screened for symptoms, but they will not be

tested for the illness. welcome -- >> you know. >> yeah. >> as you say, willie, we have heard stories -- >> you just have to tell the truth. >> -- and heard from people that came back from europe and said, hey, i just came straight through jfk, nobody asked me any questions, there was no problem at all. by the way, the other night some people were freaking out about the travel back from europe to the united states. first of all, he got a lot of it wrong so i understand them freaking out about that. but i have got no problem, and it is not xenophobic to test anybody coming back into the united states, be they americans or be they from another country. but it is really kind of bizarre that the president keeps saying these things that end up just not being true. >> yes, and botching them in a nationally televised oval office address. bring the way, american citizens can come back. by the way, the uk is exempt. again, we sound like a broken record this week but we have to listen to people like dr. fauci and dr. fair who is about to join us. these are the people with

knowledge. these are the people that don't have political skin in the game, are not trying to spin or protect anything. we have to listen to the experts an sort of push the president to the side. >> right. >> so what is frightening, disturbing and really absolutely not what this country needs at this time is the fact that that oval office address was written and prepared and the white house still had to clarify, and clarify is being generous again. three separate points that the president made that he got wrong. this is in a prepare address. it is not even the president riffing. >> actually, there were parts according to reports from the president riffed and understood afterwards -- it is one of the rare times he said to staff members he understood and made a mistake and messed up and made their lives more difficult, but he doesn't need to riff in situations like that. again, he has to deliver the facts. the markets depend on it. i'm saying that because that's what matters the most to him,

but, more importantly, the health of americans depend on it. so it is very interesting. you know, willie, i am curious. i've heard over the passed couple of weeks it is somehow xenophobic if we implement a travel ban from china or if we implement a travel ban from europe. again, that's just good medical science. i mean it is xenophobic to say we don't want muslims here. it is xenophobic to say we don't want hispanics here. >> nemexicans. >> it is xenophobic to say we're going to keep refugees out of here. so much of what the administration has done over the passed three years has been xenophobic, has been depressing, has undercut the promises of this nation. but banning people coming to the united states from infected area, that's just smart. that's just good science. i get really tired of people talking about xenophobic if you attach a certain country to -- to this virus. like if somebody says that the virus most likely started in

china, i mean vox has documentaries on that online right now. other people have reported that. it didn't start in oslo. i think people need to be concerned about what really matters, and these sort of arguments about what you call the virus don't matter. >> yes, i think the semantic arguments we can have in a couple of months once we've figured out -- got some people tested for starters to find out how many people have the disease. let's focus on what's in front of us. i think dr. fair might be happy to debate you on the travel ban in a moment. >> yes, for sure. let's give you a snapshot how much the rapidly-spreading coronavirus is disrupting almost every aspect of american public life. just a few minutes ago new mexico joined maryland, ohio, michigan and oregon in closing schools statewide. kentucky's governor has recommended closures, stopping short of mandate. cities of san francisco and houston have also closed school.

west point has told cadets not to return from spring break on monday. there will be no school or mass for the archdiocese of washington, d.c. the mormon church also cancelled its services worldwide. in the sports world, major league baseball has delayed opening day while suspending spring training. the national hockey league has paused its season. the ncaa has cancelled march madness. the pga tour, its players championship. nascar races will continue without spectators, while formula one has cancelled its season opener. live nation and aeg, the nation's largest concert promoters, have suspended all tours. broadway, carnegie hall and the met opera have all gone dark as new york joins five other states in banning large gatherings. disneyland, disney world, disney cruises and universal orlando theme parks have shut down.

late night tv shows have suspended production. jimmy fallon, stephen colbert and seth myers. hollywood has postponed the release dates of two potential blockbusters, the latest installment of fast and furious and mulan. in the race for the white house the president has halted campaign rallies while sunday's debate between joe biden and bernie sanders has been moved from arizona to cnn's washington studio to cut down on travel. >> mika, we were just talking about the president saying that people coming through were going to be screened. i just got a text from a friend of ours that we've dealt with a lot in the passed and know well. he said, watching you guys right now -- he wanted to pass along that my wife -- says her name -- flew back to the u.s. from zurich and walked through immigration as normal. no extra questions regarding health or where she had traveled to, where she was coming from, no screening, nothing. >> so what the president said,

the sound bite we jumped in with here at the top of the hour was completely inaccurate and untrue. in our last hour we spoke with dr. anthony fauci, the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases and a point person for the government's efforts to beat back the virus, he gives us clear facts. we want to play you some of our interview including willie's line of questioning about president trump's role in all of this. we know the president of the united states over weekend at mar-a-lago himself was standing with and had physical contact with someone from brazil who now has been diagnosed with coronavirus. should the president himself be tested for coronavirus? >> you know, i leave that to the president's physician. they have a very good white house physician and physician staff there, so when you have a situation of a patient/doctor relationship, the advice for that should come from the white house physician. >> but generally speaking if i were standing next to someone

who had been diagnosed with coronavirus, should i isolate myself and find a test as well? >> yes. >> okay. so that goes for the president likely in theory at least, but you'll leave it to his doctor? >> i'm going to leave it to his physician, who is a very good physician. >> okay. dr. fauci, the president said yesterday that there were 1 million coronavirus tests out there with 4 million, he said, coming in the next few days. is that an accurate number? >> the number of what is out there is accurate. the difficulty was the connection between the people and the process and connecting them with actually implementing the test, was the reason why people, as you know, are calling and saying, i tried to get a test and i couldn't get it. hopefully that's behind us, but looking forward, as i mentioned just a moment ago, we should start seeing an escalation of capability of getting tested. >> that's the disconnect a lot of people in this country i think see when they hear you say that, okay, there are a million test out there but for most people, new york city, any other

city if they want, if they go in and say, i want to be tested for coronavirus, and they're told, we just don't have them. you have to go home, isolate yourself, drink fluid. where is the disconnect and why the diss county. >> >> it is being connected now. there was a disconnect for sure, but it is going in the right direction now. no denying there was a bit of a disconnect where people here that a test could be available to anybody, and they go into a doctor's office and they didn't get it. that's unfortunate. what we are looking now is looking forward, and hopefully in the next few days to a week or so it will be a major escalation. >> what is changing, dr. fauci? what gives you the confidence it is now changing, that a week from now anyone that walks into a hospital or goes to see a doctor can get a test for coronavirus? >> i'm not saying that anyone and everyone. i am saying it will be markedly improved. what has changed is there's been a major involvement of the private sector, the companies that generally do these kinds of tests for a living are now going

to be major league involved in getting this available to the public. whereas, before it was mostly on the burden of the cdc as a public health organization. there's a lot of commercial issues out there that can be involved, and that's the thing that's going to change. it is getting the private sector involved. all right. let's bring in msnbc science contributor, virologist dr. joseph fair. i got a text, from katty kay. flew in last night, there was no testing, not even temperature testing, nothing. with your expertise, someone diagnosed with the coronavirus, should they self-quarantine? >> if it is a confirmed case that they've been exposed to, they should definitely self-isolate. i should point out there is a difference between quarantining and isolating.

quarantining means no movement whatsoever, you are confined to your space and you're not going to move from that space. someone is going to have to bring you food and water and other supplies. isolating means you will keep as much possible distance between yourself and others, only going out for essentials, your medicines, your groceries, et cetera. but there's a big difference between the two. >> and, secondly, since we don't have testing, we're still waiting maybe a week, maybe two for it to really begin, we don't even know when it will be in full swing in this country, how do we node how bad the situation is? >> that's just it, we don't. we have no idea where we are, and you heard this word on the curve, the epidemic curve. we could be going straight up, and that appears to be where we're going, but without the diagnostics in place we have no idea. so essentially we are flying blind without the diagnostics on the ground and everyone being tested right now. >> yeah, dr. fair, let me follow up with what mika was asking about the self-isolating or the quarantining. obviously the president has been

exposed to people that have tested positive for the coronavirus and willie had asked whether the president himself, since he has been exposed to someone with the coronavirus, should either isolate himself or self-quarantine. would you recommend that he do that? would you recommend that anybody in that position do that, especially since he comes into such close contact with the people who run the united states government? >> i think all we have to do is look to our northern border and look what justin trudeau is doing. he is self-isolating right now because he and his wife was exposed to someone that was a confirmed case. >> actually, his wife is a confirmed case. >> i'm sorry? >> his wife tested positive. >> is wife is now a confirmed case. >> yes, exactly. they're doing the appropriate measure and self-isolating. we have a confirmed case that was in very close contact with our own president, so it would make sense for them to, you know, self-isolate at this point. >> we also learned this morning that attorney general barr and ivanka trump had contact at a

meeting in washington last week with an australian official who tested now positive for coronavirus so the same applies to them as well. i think over the last couple of days, doctor, so many people stopped and said, okay, this is real, society is effectively shut down. people are told to work from home. sports are cancelled, concerts, large gatherings are all cancelled. what do you say to the people worried about the spike, about how to go about their lives? i think people are sort of frozen in their homes right now effectively and wondering how do i live, what do i do right now. what do you say to them? >> first of all i can say we expect to see a tripling or quadrupling of cases once the tests are rolled out. i emphasize once they're rolled out because it is not clear when we will have broad scale testing available. just because we will see the huge spike in cases does not mean everyone is going to die or we will have mass die-offs. so keep calm. carry on, but practice these standard, tried and true public health measures we talk about,

religiously washing your hands, social distancing, staying away from anyone that is ill and keep the practices up. this will mean lifestyle change immediately for the entire country and we are already seeing that with the cancellation of mass gathering events, the stopping of church services around the world and religious services around the world. so we're going to have to prepare for life under a pandemic and that's it. >> one thing we didn't get into with dr. fauci as we ran out of time was domestic travel. we were talking about it in the commercial break. a lot of people in the country are thinking about spring break with their families and people still traveling for business. what is your view of domestic air travel right now? >> if it is not essential i would say stay away from it just because, you know, you are in a confined space. you are at a higher risk by definition by being in a combined space. you don't know where everyone else has come from. someone on the plane has definitely at least a cold or flu it being cold and flu season, but do you know if it is

covid 19d? no, because we don't have the test available for them to be tested for covid-19. so you can take every precaution if you have to absolutely travel. you can wipe down the tray table and the seat as well as your air vent and keep the, you know, physical barrier between yourselves and the doorknobs. you can keep yourself as safe as possible, but my advice at this point would be if you don't absolutely have to be it is the time to practice that social distances we are talking about. >> and the reason for that is we don't know and that leads to this. the stock market suffered the worst one-day drop since black monday in 1987. it came exactly one month after the dow soared to an all-time market high. by one measure the total stock market value gained under president trump is now gone. let's bring in financial enterprise editor at the "wall street journal", ken brown. so is it this uncertainty, ken brown, the lack of testing, the

uncertainty that we're getting from the white house, from the president himself where he is making statements that are factually untrue, is that impacting the stock market? >> well, it is the uncertainty definitely, but it is more the economic uncertainty. you know, the country is shutting down. it has become really clear this will be a bad economic situation, and so people just want to get out of the markets, and the rush out is causing all of this upheaval and sending markets just spiraling down. >> so the other night, ken, as the president spoke, almost by the minute markets overseas went down, by the minute. what does wall street want to hear a president, any president, this president say? >> you know, there's an old line on wall street which is, "stock traders stop panicking which

policy makes start panic." you want to see policymakers to clearly address the problem, you know, put money into it, put science behind it, all of the things that we all have been talking about. so the stock market is saying, we're not getting that and they're looking at it in the future and saying things are going to get worse and we don't see any prospect for things getting solved. so they're running. >> the testing issues, the lack of testing seems to have really driven the market uncertainty because it has created uncertainty in the entire country over how many people actually have this virus. dr. fair, you were recently in congo. can you tell us about what is happening in congo that's different from how we have approached grappling with this virus in the united states? >> i can say that, you know, the first week of february we had coronavirus, covid-19 testing up and running in the congo. >> and it was the w.h.o. test? >> the w.h.o. test is a

commercial test made by a company in germany, but that company is very active in the united states. they rolled that out very broadly, especially to major african countries with the largest populations and where people would be traveling the most, so congo was one of the first seven countries to get it up and running. we tested our first five suspected cases second week of february and the test performed flawlessly and continues to do so. we have one confirmed case in a city of around 18 million people, so it is obviously a major fear for us, but at least they were ready with the test when the people got off the plane. by the way, it was a european that imported to the congo, which usually we worry about diseases out of the congo going to european. >> that's incredible. >> we are hearing stories about the congo, they have brazil, other countries are doing so much better than we are when it comes to self-testing. you know, it obviously makes a huge difference to be able to have the testing. ken brown, i love what you just

said, which was in effect the markets are trying to tell the white house, they're trying to tell the administration, i tell you what, we'll stop worrying when you start worrying. i guess you can add to that, we'll stop worrying when you stop lying. when the president makes one misstatement after another misstatement after another misstatement, that's got to rattle the markets. hey, it seems this isn't a financial crisis, this is a medical crisis that is driving a financial crisis, right? >> well, that's true. i mean, you know, people -- people in the markets are sitting there saying, how long is this going to last? and if it is a short -- we know it is going to be bad, but if it is a short downturn things will come out on the other side, the summer, the economy will pick up and all of that stuff, but people don't know. as you sit there and you say, oh, yes, if this is going on for six months, for eight months, if we can't get it straight, you know, you will start to see

defaults. you will start to see bankruptcies. you will see all of the things that terrify wall street. yes, it is the uncertainty exactly and you just can't get that information. >> all right. the "wall street journal's" ken brown. thank you so much. msnbc science contributor, virologist, dr. joefs fair. thank y dr. joseph fair. thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe" we will talk to a veteran of wall street drops who says the market is driven by two simple things, greed and fear. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. "morning " we will be right back. th safeli, you get a strong repair that you can trust. plus, with most insurance a safelite repair is no cost to you. >> customer: really?! >> singers: safelite repair, safelite replace.

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stock futures are looking up this morning as the dow is expected to gain nearly 1,000 points one day after the worst single-day drop since 1987. joining us now, author, commentator and host of "america this week," eric bowling. also with us conservative writer an contributor at "the week" magazine, "windsor man," we've

enjoyed his so-called trump rules on twitter such as, the less trump knows the more he thinks he knows, the more he fails, the more he says, he succeeds. and the only time trump doesn't want to spend money is when it saves other people's lives. it does not speak well of you if trump speaks well of you. perhaps the most fitting rule for the current crisis, the first thing to do in a crisis is to get trump as far away from it as possible. >> all right. we will talk to windsor about those. i think we will stick with eric with the market. eric, you have -- you were -- you obviously know a lot about markets and you are on the floor for 20 years. i am just curious, we talked yesterday afternoon. i am curious, where did yesterday line up as we saw the market collapse at the end of the day and go down 10%? you know, '87, 2001, 2008, how

did it feel to you as far as the unknowns that you always talk about that drive these sort of drops? >> so, yes, joe, we were talking right around 4:00 when the stock market was closing, and that massive last-push down, that liquidation, it reminded me of all of them to be honest with me. i call them black -- a lot of people call these black swan events. >> yes. >> what i realized there are always a struggle. there are two things that drive a market, it is fear and greed. when the fear and the greed start struggling, fighting for dominance, that's when you get the wild gyrations in markets. you get 1,000 point swings or 10% moves in markets. it is rare because usually it is the one or the other. in a greed-driven time stocks go up. orderly moves up. in fear, they go down. we had this week alone, joe, think about that, we had massive panic because of the coronavirus. markets fell apart. then the fear took over and said, you know what? this is a one-day event, it has always come back, i'm going to buy it here because it will be

okay. it went up 1,000 points. fear came back when the nba cancelled the season or postponed the season, ncaa cancelled march madness. fear took over again. this battle for dominance right now, not only in the markets but in the minds and souls of america right now, the question, the not knowing, the unknown is driving markets crazy, anxiety, and it is kind of making people feel the same way. i would say because '89 was a stock market crash, because '01 was a terrorist attack on our soil, because '07 was a banking default potential, all of these kind of wrapped up themselves into 2020 black swan, and we're not sure where it goes from here. everyone would think that over the long haul it should get better, but let's be smart. i can tell you one thing, joe, you guys hit on something very important. clearly i'm a friend of donald trump. i speak to him regularly. i was with the vice president a couple of times last week. i think -- i clearly believe he had nothing to do with this panic and this outbreak, but i do think he will be judged from

this day forward how he handles the rest of this until we get out of this. >> because, as you say, it is the unknowns, and that is something that the administration can handle. i have been saying from the beginning, give 'em the news, give them the worst news, give them the worst case scenarios. the market,, then there won't be any unknowns. it is kind of what like an old lawyer once told me. when you are in front of a jury, tell them the worst thing about your clint ent at the very beginning, and over the course of the trial they factor that in. so give the american people, give those trading on the market, give the ceos the worst case scenario, and then they can factor that in and then beat expectations. guess what? you are a hero in the end. >> joe, you and i have talked about this on the phone several times over the last few weeks. the worst case scenario is not even talked about right now. covid-19, we will get through this. it will be a virus, we will

survive, the world will survive. we are factoring in a lot of panic like the world might not survive. we will. here is the issue no one is talking about, and the reason i know about it is because '07 had the same factors, italy. if there's a run on italy -- remember greece in 2007? that was the impetus behind the meltdown in the markets. if italy fails or falters, that's additional input into the black swan event and it may not be over. if somehow the european markets or the banking system holds and they're fortified, don't forget, lower oil prices in america and developed countries is a massive boon for the stock and equity market. you have a positive effect. the other effect is i think we have overpriced in a massive virus. the only negative that's for me that's still out there is whether the european banking system holds. if it does, i think we will be okay, because we fortified in 2007. we capitalized our banks.

so our banks as of right now are in great shape. lower oil prices will add to our economy. >> by the way, i have heard that from bankers all day yesterday, we're going to be fine, everything is solid, and 2008 took care of it. but we never -- i mean 9/11 was one kind of black swan event. the dust settles a week or two later, you get your head together, okay. we can sort of project this out. nobody planned for this black swan event where the nba, the nhl, major league baseball, broad way, you name it, schools, everybody shutting down. i mean the losses for businesses are going to be -- my god, i can't even estimate it, and there are a lot of banks that have extended credit lines to a lot of companies, big and small. those companies are going to default on those credit lines. it is inevitable. you shut down business for a couple of months to the degree

that we're going to and i think you bring up a really important point. everybody is still whistling passed the graveyard about banks. i'm not so sure they're as solid as everybody is suggesting they are right now. >> well, so your point is well-taken. now, anthony fauci was on with you earlier and he said something very important in the virus world. we learn from what is happening. we learn from what prior h1n1, swine flu, mrs, sars. we learn and adjust. we did in 2007, we fortified the bank's credit sheets but taught ourselves not to be so frivolous with the way we loan money and they scaled it back. here we're very, very solid. i can't make the same claims, they didn't do the same thing overseas in europe, other important banking centers. i will push back i think we will be okay here, but it doesn't mean if there's a domino effect going on overseas it doesn't make its way over here. again, that's a massive, massive

black swan. you asked me which one of all of these i have seen were the scariest besides this one, 2007 was because i will never forget bear sterns went down, lehman went down. okay, extended banks and lenders went down. when goldman sachs started to falter, it was $5, $10, 15, 20, everyone who had any knowledge how smart the goldman sachs people were realized this could be the end of the u.s. banking financial system. warren buffett came in, put a bottom in that. he saved the day. he put $10 billion into goldman sachs and the thing was over. so a lot of my point is this. we will have volatility and anxiety, but we have to wait and see. prudent investors, prudent people shouldn't jump to conclusions any given day. give it time. >> thank you so much for being with us today. we greatly appreciate it. john heilemann, as eric was bringing up warren buffett in 2008 steps in and decides he

will place a little bet on goldman sachs and said it is just stupid to bet against the united states of america and went all in. made a few dollars on that bet. >> he did. i saw him just yesterday i think it was, buffet talking about as bad as things have been in the markets this week he still thinks they're not as troubling and systemic-based as things were in 2008. i do want to come around to windsor and ask you a little bit about donald trump's behavior. i have been following your commentary on him. you are a student of the president obviously. "the washington post" this morning has out an incredible video that looks back at trump over the course of the last months talking about coronavirus, 19 different instances in which he played down the threat of the coronavirus where he talked about it being a conspiracy, about it being a hoaxed, said we would be through it in a couple of days, said it would change with the weather, all of these things that now have added up to

an incredible lack of credibility on the president's part, the main currency he needs to help lead the country going forward and something that contributed to the financial fall-out which imperils his campaign with the notion there's a recession on the horizon. the president who has done everything he can in the last couple of months on the issue to undermine the prospects of his own reelection. >> i think when trump tells you to be calm you should be concerned. when he tells you to be alarmed, you should not be concerned at all, like with the mexican caravan. he stokes irrational fears but he suppresses rational fears. i think the reason is because he can't control real -- real crises, whereas he can make fake

crises go away, he can cure them. but with these real things, he -- this is real, he can't control it, so he is trying to make it go away by pretending it is not even there. >> windsor, let me ask you something and it might be difficult for you to answer because you're not related to the president as far as i know, you don't see him every day. but just his behavior, especially in that televised speech the other evening, do you think he's scared? >> oh, absolutely. i would be too. i wouldn't run for president. so, yeah, he's -- he's scared. i have watched nixon's old addresses to the nation and he was way more at ease than trump was, and nixon was discussing vietnam and watergate which were much worse and they were about him personally whereas trump did not concoct this virus. he shouldn't have a reason to be concerned. it reminds me of a book written on totalitarianism and did not

say that trump was a totalitari totalitarian dictator, but dictators were not satisfied with saying unemployment didn't exist but they would abolish unemployment benefits as part of the propaganda. it makes me think of trump and testing because without testing it furthers his propaganda of saying many people are not infected. >> that's where we are. >> windsor mann, thank you for being on. >> thank you, windsor. joining us, director for the center for infectious disease research and policy and professor in the medical school at the university of minnesota, dr. michael osterholm. doctor, you kind of saw all of this coming in a 2005 piece for "foreign affairs" magazine. you wrote, quote, this is a critical point in our history. time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. we must act now with decisiveness and purpose. again, that was in 2005, a point

you reiterated in your 2017 book "dead "deadliest enemy." what is the message you think americans need to hear this morning? >> first of all, they have to understand that we are truly in a pandemic situation that is a very serious one. the thing that i have a lot of concern about is everybody is approaching this this week like it is a washington, d.c. blizzard, meaning that we're willing to shelter in place for a couple of days. you have been listening to all of the actions taken in the last 48 hours. we are going to be in this for a coronavirus wintertime period, meaning we are in the first weeks of many, many months. what i'm concerned about is how we act now. can we sustain that? should we sustain that? how will the country take it if broadway is down for six months, not six weeks? how will the country take it if, in fact, schools are closed for an extended period of time?

so i think we have to have some understanding of what we're walking into here. >> hey, michael. it is willie geist. good to have you on this morning. >> hey, willie. >> dr. anthony fauci said yesterday in congressional testimony which echos what you are saying. the system is not geared to what we need right now, and that is a failing. how can we have a country as big and prosperous as ours and the cdc which is so widely regarded which we've heard a couple of times this morning, and not be set up for this? why aren't we more prepared for this moment? >> first of all, we are sitting in the middle of a perfect storm. as mika just said, when i wrote that piece in 2005 and reiterated again in 2017, i'm afraid to report to you we were actually in better shape back then than now. part of that is the fact we have now put ourselves into this global economy of just-in-time manufacturing and delivery from parts of the world like china so there's no stockpiling of anything. today one of the great concerns

i have in an op-ed piece i wrote in "the washington post" a few weeks ago, as in this country as go health care workers go the psyche of the american public. if a lot of health care workers are infected and died and we see the health care system overrun, that's when people will lose all faith in government. right now we have no stockpiles of any of this protective equipment. we are running basically on a just-in-time delivery model. no matter how hard or how fast the manufacturers work, we will be far, far short of that. so we need to plan for the kind of thing that unfortunately we are seeing in milan or we have seen in wuhan, and we're not better prepared than we were even a few years ago. >> doctor, in public remarks at the new america foundation, you addressed some of the misconceptions around how coronavirus is transmitted, and you said, quote, it is all about the air and the air you're breathing. can you talk about some of the misconceptions and what you mean

about the air that we're breathing being a risk? >> yes. well, thank you. let me back up and say that, to give you some sense of when we talk about how it is transmitted, this pandemic has not surprised some of us at all. on january 20th i wrote a piece that said this is going to be a pandemic because what we realized, it was not being transmitted like sars or mers where you don't become infected early enough and if we find you we can put it in a hospital and you don't transmit to anybody. this one we have clear and compelling evidence you are transmitting well before you are symptomatic and have high virus levels. in a study just completed and published out of germany, they found in the throats and noses of people who are infected in the very first day, they had a level of virus was 1,000 times higher than we see with sars. it is a very dynamic transmission issue and it is like influenza where basically it is in the air.

these very small particles we call aerosols, for example, as well as the droplets. if you want to understand what an aerosol is, next time you see sunlight coming in your window in your home, look at the dust floating in there. you think that's dust and it is dirty, that's an aerosol. >> yes. >> one of the things we have to tell the public is being in public spaces, yes, you may be walking near or by someone, you're going to share air with them and that's a risk. that's important to get to -- get that information to the people who are most at risk of having severe disease. hand washing is great. i deal with a lot of infectious disease that hand washing is important, but we have overstated clearly the role it plays. people have to do more than just wash their hands. don't stop doing that, but it is more than just that. >> so that brings us back to a question we've been carefully asking this morning to experts like you. the president was exposed to someone who was diagnosed with coronavirus and you took a picture with this individual.

so should he be self-quarantining or isolating? is he at risk given the fact that you talk about this aerosol transmission? >> yeah, you know, i think right now, mika -- and i don't mean to be glib about this, but there are two kinds of people in the world. there are those currently quarantined and those that will be. you know, this is a virus that transmits just like seasonal flu. when the last time you heard of anyone saying they're going to stop seasonal influenza transmission other than getting vaccinated. what we have to do is take a step back. i will make a prediction. we will stop doing contact embracing. it wouldn't matter if another virus came into the country from someone outside the country, we have so much virus here right now that has not been fully described as you already shared this morning on the show because of the lack of testing that it is out there. one of the things we have to move on is everyone in a sense

is talking about how we'll die with this disease. i think the conversation has to be completely flipped and we have to figure out how to live with it. we have to live with it for the next three to five to six months. whether baseball is called off that long or any of these things. >> we have to start understanding this. i see all of this rush to close things right now in states where there's very little virus activity documented yet. it doesn't mean it is not there and we will document it, but my first question, if you are going to ring a bell and do something, how are you going to unring it? >> well, it is just we are all flying blind because there's no testing. hopefully we will get more answers, and you're right, it is about figuring out how to live with this in the months to come. director for the center for infectious disease, professor at the medical school of minnesota and author of several books on infectious diseases, dr. michael osterholm. thank you very much. >> thank you so much, doctor. up next, congress is close to reaching a stimulus deal with

the white house to help americans affected by the coronavirus. we'll talk about where things stand next on "morning joe." when i showed my mom the dna results,

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world health organization now has officially declared covid-19 a pandemic. do downplaying it, being overly dismissive or spreading misinformation will only hurt us and further advantage the spread of the disease. neither should we panic or fall back on xenophobia, labelling covid-19 a foreign virus does not displace accountability for the misjudgments that have been taken thus far by the trump administration. >> first and foremost, we are dealing with a national emergency and the president of

the united states must understand that and declare that emergency. next, because president trump is unwilling and unable to lead selflessly, we we must immediat convene an emergency bipartisan authority of experts to support and direct the response that is comprehensive, compassionate and based first and foremost on science and fact. >> joe biden and bernie sanders both addressing the president's response to the coronavirus outbreak in separate speeches yesterday. so a lot going on. >> a lot going on. >> the white house scrambling at this point. >> and we have breaking news from "the washington post." we've been talking about the need all morning of the white house to speed up testing. this is "the washington post" breaking news banner. under harsh criticism, trump administration announces efforts to speed testing. the trump administration

announced a series of steps aimed at boosting the availability of the coronavirus testing which has drawn heeded criticism from both sides. fda is creating a 24-hour emergency hot line for labs having difficulty getting materials or finding other impediments to running tests. according to announcements early on friday, officials also announcing giving $1.3 million in federal money to two companies that are trying to develop rapid tests that can determine whether a person tests positive in an hour. they have assigned an assistant secretary for health to coordinate all covid-19 testing efforts there. also the fda is giving new york state the ability to authorize certain public and private labs to test for the virus under the aegis of the state health department without first getting federal health approval. willie, obviously, the white house under pressure feeling the need to move rapidly, and that's

exactly what these announcements are intended to do this morning. >> that's what dr. fauci indicated to us a few minutes ago on this show. that was a preview of the story that dropped in "the washington post" that at long last there's an understanding in the upper reaches of the white house and the oval office about how serious this is and how testing is the key to finally getting a handle on not fixing this but on how big the problem is. let's turn to a member of the house committee on science, space and technology. democratic congressman charlie crist of florida. appreciate you spending some time with us. how big a problem is coronavirus in the state of florida right now, and what measures are you taking on a state level to attack it? >> it's a huge problem. we're the third largest state in the country. 22 million people. in my district, there are already two cases that are identified. we have two deaths in the sunshine state and that s.a.add my heart. this announcement about finally getting to testing. where have they been? who doesn't realize how

important that is. everybody ought to be -- have the ability to get a test if they're having some symptoms that indicate they may have contracted this disease. so i'm glad they're stepping up, but, you know, maybe a little too little, too late. i hope they get their act together and start working harder and doing more because the american people deserve it. we're in a crisis. so you have to rally the troops and make sure all hands are on deck. doing everything humanly possible to help the american people and frankly, the people of the world stem the tide of this problem that we're dealing with. >> congressman, john heilemann here. i'm curious about so many things, but one of the things we've been discussing is the role the president has played in this. and i'm really, for the most, focused on the future. a story in "the new york times" this morning that says the president has become a bystander in the administration and i think in any normal crisis, certainly one of this scale, we would be concerned if the president of the united states was a bystander in his administration's reaction to

that crisis. i wonder, though, in this circumstance, given the kind of behavior he's exhibited leading up to this moment and the speech he gave the other night and the ramifications in the markets and elsewhere whether it might be better if the president were a bystander and one who was, in fact, out of the public spotlight, allowing others, whether that's mike pence, anthony fauci, others to be the public face of the response to this crisis. which do you feel more comfortable with? an assertive donald trump or a donald trump who is more or less out of the picture? >> i prefer an assertive president that is competent, intelligent, sober minded, clear eyed and steady. >> yeah. >> and that's why i support joe biden. i think we need a new president. that's crystal clear to me. and to have a guy, frankly, it's better that he is in the background a little bit in my humble opinion because of what we've seen and what we've heard. and then in the misstatements he makes, even when he's giving a scripted speech. it's embarrassing. and so we need a change. and florida is looking forward

to a change. our primary is next tuesday, st. patrick's day. i think vice president biden is going to do really well. it's eye on the ball. november the 3rd is coming. that's when we get the chance to make a change and have real leadership that understands what's important, what the people care, about that cares about them with true empathy, understands people are more important than money. he's been talking about things to try to make sure the market does well, and it's collapsed. so, you know, we need real leadership. we're starving for it as a nation. the people of america deserve it. and they're thirsting for it. i'm looking for a change and vice president biden will make a great united states president. >> congressman, you're on the house committee for science, space and technology. what kind of answers have you gotten from the administration about the delay in testing? >> bad ones. i'm getting calls in my district in tampa bay. the anchor of the i-4 corridor in florida.

people can't get tests done. if you can't get tests done you don't know if you have it or don't have it. this is so basic. this is not really complicated how to deal with this. you have to get up to speed. be ahead of a problem. you can't try to dismiss it at the very get-go and act like it's not a problem and everything is going smoothly. those kind of statements are in the president's own self-interest in his view, i think. and i just think he's missing it and not appreciating. he works for the people of america. they're the boss. he needs to understand who he answers to. >> congressman charlie crist, we'll leave it right there. thank you very, very much for being on. and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a short break. - [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps.

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hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's friday, march 13th. and we start with breaking news. in the past 24 hours, the coronavirus has altered daily life across the united states in ways that would have seemed unthinkable even three days ago. as of this morning, there are roughly 1700 cases across the nation and 41 deaths. 20 states have issued emergency declarations. 46 states have seen at least one case. and now officials are taking extreme action to keep those numbers down. in an effort to limit large groups, the nhl joined the nba in suspending their seasons