po puerto rico have confirmed cases. this has led to states and city taking drastic measures. the mayor of hoboken instituted a curfew. georgia postponed its elections. these kids in california have altered the lemonade stand. look at this. >> hello. would you like a toilet paper roll? mom had extra. she let us use it for -- to sell. >> "the wall street journal" poll gives hard numbers on the feelings about covid-19. it reveals an amazing 99% of respondents say they have seen, heard or read about the novel coronavirus. 53% say they are very or somewhat worried or they or someone in their family might

catch covid-19. 41% say their lives will change in a major way in the near future. 60% think the worst is yet to come. joining me now from baltimore, dr. when. she's a visiting professor and baltimore's former health commissioner, the executive vice-president and former director of the tarp capital purchase program at the treasury program and also in d.c., the co-founder of campaign zero and a black lives matter activist, she's an msnbc contributor, in minneapolis, the former acting commissioner for the centers for medicare and medicaid and the affordable care act, he is the founder of united states of care. welcome to all of you. thank you for being with us. andy, you have some ideas for the federal government about how to deal with this. >> well, look, first of all, i

think it's important that we all understand that we are all on the same team rooting for the federal government to succeed. we all have heard, as i think dr. when discussed in the last hour, getting testing to people is really critical. at this juncture in time, my advice for any individual, for any state and local government, any hospital is to take matters into your own hands. assume that -- don't assume a lot of support from the federal government. assume because we are likely in most communities already contagious. we have a virus to which none of us have immunity. we spread it to at least two people without knowing it, the best advice we need to give are to all of us. if you look at the simulation models, the difference between 75% of us socially isolating or 25% of us socially isolating is the difference between

overwhelming and swamping the health care system in a way it will look like italy. that's where we all need to focus right now. >> where are we right now in terms of the evolution of the white house and this administration in dealing with the seriousness of this crisis? >> unfortunately, it doesn't seem like we're much further than where we started. the amount of trust that communities have had in this white house has been small and diminished by the handling of this virus, the unavailability of tests, the fact there's not clear information coming from a single source, we know that information that was critical to communities' health and safety has been blocked by the white house are all things contributing to people's continued fear about whether or not this white house is capable of ensuring that all americans are healthy, safe and can resume normal activities sooner rather than later. people are certainly going to consider this in the midst of the election and the choices they have to make. there are people who didn't

trust trump before. they certainly don't trust him now. >> i want to ask you, lori, about how this starts to affect the economy. there are people who have said they believe we're in a recession. we lost a lot of money in people's 401(k) in the market in the last month or so. ultimately, what are the things that could happen? you worked on structurally keeping the economy afloat. what are you looking for to make sure that this doesn't become worse economically than it is? n >> i think it's important to look at the differences between now and 2008. in 2008, you had a financial crisis that was -- that came from the financial markets themselves, the financial institutions. here we have a crisis that is driven by clearly a big public health concern. it appears the prescription for this problem is for everyone to stay home, which then causes its own economic crisis. i think that the recent package passed by the house is a good start. it attempts to address some of

the both health and economic policies from ensuring people have access to the food they will need, to testing, some additional pay leave benefits. what i'm looking at in addition to this package go through the entire congress is their upcoming economic indicators. also, just listening to community banks on the ground and hearing what they are seeing themselves directionally from small businesses serving their communities. >> there's an interesting point here, that you point out that in 2008 and 2009, the crisis was financial in nature. this is not. this is a public health crisis. if it's dealt with probably, we may not end up with a financial crisis. >> that's true. it's possible again that the way we deal with this crisis is to keep everyone home. people are talking in terms of weeks, maybe a couple of months. everyone seems optimistic we will have a pickup the second half of the year. i'm optimistic about that as well. if you don't and you just keep

seeing -- it seems more articles than data. but all of the comments about consumer confidence cratering and people staying home and not buying. in a country where consumer spending powers so much of our economy, that can certainly lead to a pretty deep recession fairly quickly. >> one of the things that causes us to think back to 2008 and 2009 is that was the last time we had something that represented a real crisis in our country that affected people in broad swaths. taking the approach of an all of government approach in which the federal government leads congress and political parties come together, we saw that on friday with the passage of this bill by congress that's going to help get testing out there and some paid sick leave, what does the fullest of responses look like and who does it start with? >> well, everything should start with the president. it should start with the head of our federal government. but i do agree with what andy

said a minute ago that if we are not going to get that type of coordinated response from the top, then local and state officials and business leaders and all of us should be taking matters into our own hands and doing what we can. i understand the tradeoffs that have to be made and there are consequences of keeping people home. here is the consequence of not doing that. we have seen what happens in china, what happens in italy when the health care system becomes overwhelmed. we are weeks away. we are weeks away from running out of icu beds, ventilators and having doctors and nurses make the decision of who gets to live and who gets to die because of the limited resources that we have. we have a very narrow window to avoid that outcome. that narrow window is right now. if we can reduce the number of people who will get infected at the same time, that's how we can potentially save thousands of lives here in the u.s.

i understand the economic pain that will follow. but isn't it worth it to have a few months of pain just to save tens of thousands of potentially of american lives? >> andy, she talks about something you have been tweeting about. that is what's happening in italy, where the number of cases has exceeded the medical establishment's ability to deal with it. there are -- there has been a lot of talk about that here in the united states, the curve of infection. if we let it -- if we manage it in a way that the infections develop over time, the number of infections will remain below the limit of how we can serve people. if we don't, it looks like we're taking some action to do so -- if we don't, we will exceed the number of available hospital beds, the nurses, the supplies that they have and will end up with a situation like we have in italy where i think you tweeted at one point there's one ventilator for every eight people who need one. >> in new york right now, there

are about 3,000 maybe a little more icu beds. about 10% of people who are contracting coronavirus are in need of an intensive hospitalization bed. if we continue to grow at the same rate that we're growing right now and on the same path as italy, then we will by the -- i think the first week in april need somewhere in the tens of thousands, could be 35 or 40,000 intensive care beds. that means a massive construction of new hospital facilities and tents in a very, very rapid time. that's not our only constraint. we have near as i can estimate, 100,000 ventilators in this country. that is not going to be nearly enough. they won't be in the right place. that's to say nothing of the work force, the heroes on the front line, the well-trained doctors, nurses, lab technicians, people cleaning up the hospital. they are worried for themselves.

should they get infected, as happened in california, they stop showing up, then all of this other capacity goes away. furth furthermore, people are still needing care in italy. they will need care here. we are hearing doctors writing about and tweeting about the fact they tell women who are going into labor they can't enter the hospital. having babies in parking lots. people having heart conditions and other things not able to get medications and so forth. i don't want to leave it on a depressing note. i think the panel is saying the same thing. this is very much in our control. the future is not defined. we don't have to live on italy's curve. that means that, for example, st. patrick's day needs to be celebrated in october. if we celebrate st. patrick's day the way we normally celebrate st. patrick's day where i live and i come from -- i lived in chicago and boston where they do it up. we are going -- i'm afraid those are going to be decisions we

look back with a significant amount of regret in the future. >> i want to just repeat this nbc "wall street journal" poll that came out moments ago. it shows 99% of respondents say they have seen, heard or read about coronavirus. i would take that as a good thing. 53% say that they are very or somewhat worries that someone in their immediate family might get coronavirus, co-individual 1v c. 60% think that the worst is yet to come. at some point this -- these numbers -- i don't know what they look like if we had good information from the beginning. but we didn't. people were turning to the federal government for the best information possible. we did have a president who said, we have 15 cases, it's probably going to zero. we have a president who said there are people on a boat, i don't want them coming off because it will double our numbers, a president that implies that this is a foreign

illness and as a result it's not really ours to worry about all that much. at some point, we don't have a secure hand. >> here is what it feels like on the ground. people are not only worried that someone that they know or that they themselves will get sick, people are also trying to figure out how they are going to pay for the food they need to stock up on because businesses are closed and they are off of work. some businesses are getting paid leave. others are not. the federal government hasn't guaranteed that for a lot of workers in the country in a strong way. people are worried about what will happen to their children. if they will have access to the educational support they need and the nutrition that they need. people are trying to figure out if they're going to be zoned out of having access to tests. it seems like celebrities and the wealthy are able to get

access to what they need. if a cure or vaccine does come along, people are worried they will be priced out of that. the number of uninsured and underinsured people we have will be left behind in this crisis. people who have decent insurance will not be able to access the vaccine and cures this need. that's 60% of people talking about the fact this will get worse before it gets better, they are not just talking about the virus. they are talking about their quality are talking about inequities will feel worse during this crisis. we know communities of color and low-income communities have poor health outcomes in this country. we know that african-americans are at greater risk because they have more diseases and more compromise immune systems coming into a crisis like this. people are not just worried about their health. people are worried about the long-term outcomes of this issue because we have a federal government that does not have our back. we will have to have our own.

>> dr. when is a visiting professor at george washington school of health, lori is at the treasury department, and brittany and andy. thank you to the four of you. a few days a with a from democratic primaries. is the delegate race running away from bernie sanders? we will do the math for you next. after my dvt blood clot, i wondered.

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the covid-19 pandemic has had a major impact on the 2020 presidential race with states postponing primaries or taking other measures. you may not have known it. there was a caucus in the northern mariana islands. bernie sanders is the projected winner. biden has a lead on sanders in the delegate count.

actu there are calls for sanders to drop out. there is some contest left for him to make a change. this tuesday, there are four major contests. biden holds leads. he has a significant lead in our new poll out this hour. biden leading 61 to 32. one thing we saw last week is that the pandemic allowed the president and two democratic front-runners the countries to make presidential speeches. the overall view is that trump's wednesday night speech at the oval office was a failure. without biden and sanders' remarks, when you add in biden and sanders' remarks, who was more presidential? >> no president can promise to prevent future outbreaks. i can promise you this.

when i'm president, we will be better prepared, respond better and recover better. we will lead with science. we will listen to the experts. we will heed their advice. and we will build american leadership and rebuild it to rally the world to meet a global threat that we are likely to face again. >> if there ever was a time in the modern history of our country when we are all in this together, this is that moment. now is the time. we must immediately convene an emergency bipartisan authority of experts to support and direct a response that is comprehensive, compassionate and based first and foremost on science and fact. >> joining me from boston is presidential historian doris

kerns-goodwin. the topic of our discussion this morning, thank you for being with us, leadership in turbulent times. almost every president, if not all, gets to oversee some turbulent times. not all of them step up as well as some in history. you have pointed out a few examples of presidents who haven't. buchanan in the 1850s when the slavery fight was heating up is now seen as a failed president. hoover, presiding over the great depression, the stock market, is now seen as having failed at doing that. give me examples of what leads to failure and what leads to success in history. >> it's really important to realize we think about our greatest presidents who have led us through the most important times of crisis, whether the revolution in george washington or civil war, great depression, world war ii. those moments of crisis can produce failure and history

judging the president's poorly. buchanan's actions during the 1950s escalated the crisis between the north and south. it was only when lincoln came in and was able to take a firm hand that that crisis began to unwind. hoover was unwilling to allow the federal government until the very end to take resources. he kept thinking it was a local problem. he would talk about it getting better. it took fdr coming in and making a clear line of demarcation saying, i'm here now. only a foolish optimism would deny the reality of the moment. there's nothing to fear but fear itself because i'm going to take responsibility. i'm going to go to congress. i have measures, action, action, action now. if they don't answer them, i will take executive authority. it was really what the country was needing. headlines said, we have a leader. time for inaction is over. it's that sense of the white house providing direction and responsibility and taking it on the shoulders of the president that people then felt they can

sigh relief because something is going to happen. >> we have not seen that in the last few weeks with respect to coronavirus in the united states. >> i think what people really want -- similar to the situation happening in those months before fdr became president. granted, that was a financial crisis, but it was pretty huge. people were lining up to get money out of their banks and the banks no longer had the cash to give them money. they can't have money. they come home, it became unruly. one bank is closing. some states close banks. when fdr came in, he took the leadership position of saying, i'm closing all banks for a week. calls congress into session. has emergency banking laws. then gives a fireside chat and says, it's safe to bring your money back because currency is being flown over, we're doing what we need to do. it's the central authority. people brought their money back and the banking crisis was over. what we need is that central authority right now. right now individuals are taking the -- governors are acting,

mayor are acting, individual citizens are acting. you want the sense of national direction. >> sounds like you are talking about two different things, neither of which we have seen much of. one is a plan, a decisive plan that seems to be drawn from the expertise that the president can draw from. the other one is the messaging that says, i will take responsibility or my administration can take responsibility of this because we are capable of leading america through this crisis. there were things the president was trying to say that this will burn itself out, this won't be a big deal, it will disappear, which in the end may turn out to be true, except on the way to that tens of thousands, if not millions of people may get infected and sick and many may die. how do you manage that role for the president where he or she doesn't impose panic upon americans but at the same time says, this is really very serious and i have a plan to deal with it seriously? >> you are right in identifying

it's a balance between wanting to stem the panic and make people feel that things are being taken care of but being realistic how dire the situation is and how a president balances that is so important. it means the credibility of his word matters. i think the problem is when history looks back, they will talk about the fact that the president thought at one point we were at five, we are going to go to zero. this wasn't a serious situation, it was foreign. even if he is now beginning to take actions that he should, which i think thank god for the country we have that bipartisan bill that went through, his last news conference took steps ahead of where he was before, but then there's that feeling of, can we trust the word that's coming out because of what was said before? i think the important thing that a president needs to do is explain to the people, this is how we got where we are. this is where we are. this is where we're going to go. they need to tell a story. that's what great leaders do when they communicate. whenever lincoln talked about slavery, he would say, this is how we got into this problem,

now here is where we are going collectively as a nation. we need that sense of guidance right now. that's the major function of a commander in chief in a moment like this, is to give us that explanation, to be the teacher. so far, we haven't seen that sense of direction. >> good to see you. presidential historian and best selling author, her recent book is "leadership in turbulent times." we are in turbulent times. it's an important read. tonight watch msnbc for analysis of the democratic debate between biden and sanders. featuring commentary from our commentators. in italy, one of the hardest hit nations, italians have adopted a new moto, everything will be already. ♪ ♪

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as european countries across europe brace for new restrictions because of coronavirus, italy, the epicenter of the pandemic there, with the largest number of reported cases, remains under a nationwide lockdown. overnight, the number of new cases in italy jumped to more than 21,000. that's a 20% increase in just one day. it comes as the health care system continues to be overwh m overwhelmed. a grim forewarning for the world, if we cannot stymie the spread of this virus. today, the italian government is likely to approve a multi-billion-euro stimulus practice to tackle the economic impact of the coronavirus. joining me now, the former prime minister of italy.

thank you for joining us today. we are constantly warned here in america that if we do not take the correct actions, we are ten days behind being in the situation that italy is in. what can we do? what message do you have from what you have seen happen in italy for us in the united states to prevent our situation from getting as dire as yours is? >> first of all, i think the first thing is don't und underestimate the situation. that is the priority. in the last three days, i think everyone around the world understand the importance of the situation. first is understand the situation is really, really, really a bad situation. second, we as italian people reacted with great impact you

present before the news the singing national anthem in the window of the cities. but the real problem today is technology to give hope to the system, the hospital system. why? because the problem of this pandemic is exactly the great spread, contagious. i believe with new technology as in south korea, singapore, we really all understand all these possible to do to block that corona. at that point, of course, is follow science, science, science. we cannot continue to deny the

evidence. we have great medicine system, doctor, scientists. we have to follow that. and we don't underestimate. >> one of the things you have said is that you do need to shut schools down. this is not consistent across america. some universities and colleges have shut down. some schools have shut down for a few weeks. the neighboring town will have schools that are not shut down. you do point out that in china, where at least if we believe what's coming out of there, they seem to have got this under control, but that china has the ability to do certain things in terms of shutting things down and keeping people in that italy does not and the united states certainly does not because there are people here who will not follow the dictates of the government, especially if they are just recommendations as opposed to closures that are enforced by the national guard. >> of course. the chinese is more efficient but not democratic.

this is a big problem. fortunately, we are not china in terribles of respect of constitution. chinese make a lot of things to save a lot of human lives with a system of control and check. also with new technology and new infrastructure. for example, in seven days, eight days, ten days, it's possible to build some structures able to host people with problem for corona. what is the problem of corona? it's a tragedy but it's a tragedy because everyone arrive in the hospital. if we will be able to postpone the spread, to postpone the contagious, we will be able to

guarantee hospitalization. that is the point possible with the attention by schools ant universi and university. my suggestion is close every type of school. close every type of university. if we block for one month soccer in italy, this is a signal of absolutely extraordinary moment we live. we have to block not only sporting event but also school, university and use new technology to track the people with the contagious. the problem is that. spread and that will risk to create problems in hospital in united states. in italy the situation is not easing that period. but we try to block the collapse

and to save a lot of human life. this is our goal. >> this is the one thing that our disaster preparedness and health experts have been telling us, to watch out for, and that is if we do not slow the spread of this thing by closing schools and cancelling public gatherings, the spike in the number of infections could get to the point that it exceeds our hospital bed capacity, which you have seen in parts of italy. ath at that point, you treat people in public facilities that are not hospitals, stadiums, tents outdoors. if we slow the spread of this thing, we may still get a lot of infections but in a way everybody can get a hospital bed, get access to a nurse, the hospital staff will have the materials, masks that they need. sometimes just slowing this down, even if we can't stop it, at least means it's within our capability and our capacity to handle. >> i think that if we -- we are

facing with a new enemy. virus is a very new and dangerous enemy. but we can win the fight against virus. if everyone in every country of the world understand importance to act now and not tomorrow and not next week, now, the capacity to enlarge capability of the hospitals. particularly for the old people. the problem in -- the problem of this virus is that. the first risk is old people. i cannot accept the position of some as leader of countries who said, this is not a problem if

all the people will die, this is not a problem. no. if we lost our grandparents, this is tragedy for our community. that is particularly true for young people. respect the rule. accept the restriction. accept the measures to avoid the risk of spread for the old people. it's not simply right, it's a duty, it's a moral duty. for that is important for the political decisionmaker to be able to act with a large -- the number of capability in the hospitals. but sometime -- this is my point now because a few days ago i suppress, don't underestimate. now the question is, please, use the new technology.

because we google, facebook, instagram, we can track to save the people from corona. at this point, i think we will win this fight. but we have to act now. >> we have to act now. we have to accept some things we don't accept in the west, including in america this idea of being tracked. it's using -- it's being used in china. it's remarkable, prime minister, to watch the streets of your city, florence and your country empty. anybody who has been in italy knows that there's no such thing as empty streets. no such thing as empty cafe. no such thing as empty restaurants. no such thing as italians who don't want to hug you and give you three kisses, let alone one. social separation is a much harder deal. if the italians can get it done, then we in the united states can get it done. the former prime minister of

italy, thank you for your guidance and reminder there's a moral duty to do what we can as individuals to not spread this virus. believe it or not, we found a little bit of a silver lining in the coronavirus outbreak. it could save you a lot of money. i will break it all down when we return. we return without weighing it down? try pantene daily moisture renewal conditioner. its color-safe formula uses smart conditioners to micro-target damage helping to repair hair without weighing it down. try pantene. from anyone else. so why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms which most pills don't. get all-in-one allergy relief for 24 hours, with flonase.

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rates ever recorded since they started tracking rates in 1971. let's say you own a home. using examples here. valued at $500,000. you have a $250,000 mortgage left on your house. the rate on your mortgage when you took it was 4.5%, let's say. now you can get down to 3.35%, maybe even lower, depending how good your credit is. if you refinance that mortgage, that translates into a savings of $165 a month or more than $50,000 in interest payments over the life of the loan. imagine that if you have a kid who is going to college. economists believe rates will remain low. they might drop further giving a small coronavirus related benefit to the homeowners who take advantage of these historically low mortgage rates. still ahead, the coronavirus outbreak has uncovered serious lapses in our federal government's emergency preparedness. how adversaries might see these

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switch to progressive and you could save hundreds. you know...like the sign says. administration's delayed response to coronavirus has put the nation's security on the line. an op-ed in the hill said adversaries could view this as an opportunity to conduct kinetic attacks against the physical targets, undermine public confidence in government and disrupt ongoing must be and public health response efforts. presidenth trump says this vir came out of nowhere, four members of the national security council pandemic unit say they warned theth white house in 201 and just this morning trump's leading expert says it willmo te longer for life to get back to normal.rt s >> would you prefer a 14-day, justa sort of national shutdow? >> i would prefer as much as we possibly could, i think we shouldou really be overly

aggressive and get criticized for overreacting. >> should more americans be prepared to be hunkering down at their house? think americans should be prepared that they're going to have to hunker down a significantly more than we as a country are doing. >> so some question whether this could have been prevented, like formerev national security advir susan rice who says the administration faileday miserab because of what she calls trump's xenophobia and arrogance. how can americans trust their commander in chief duringt a health crisis if he believes the health crisis isn't actually a health crisis? joining me now msnbc national security analyst frank figlusi. couple of things at play here, whatpl fauci said to chuck todd that is if we're wrong, fewer people get hurt. we face this when we cover hurricanes and people hesay, yol know, hurricane may not come and i always say if i'm wrong, everybody's good. you spent a few tanks of gas, you may have spent a few nights in aew hotel or something, not

fantastic but hadso to spend money. but it is muchbu better than yo house blowing away while you're in it. at some point, we do have to tell people things are serious without a panicking. >> exactly. the fbi we used to say we get paid for worst case scenario thinking, not for best case scenario t thinking. the time for thinking the worst unfortunately is right now, because we're behind the curve. what is going to happen here is we're all focused on the threat of the virus, bad guys, bad actors, foreign sponsors, hackers aren going to look at e downstream threat what do i mean by that? employers are telling their employees to work from home. >> if i'm at homeworking, i'm on my home wi-fi. >> you are and you may not have two m factor authentication, no the propernt vpn access. someone is going to understand that newng vulnerability, we're going to see an increase in hacking, and cybercrime. we also heard a lot about ab

telehealth, being diagnosed from home, over your computer system, so you don't have to leave your home. that'sea fantastic. but do we have the security cyberinfrastructure to handle sensitive healthcare informatioe via our computer lines. >> there isvi also a separate issue and that is that this is a test t of the president and the presidency. a serious one. the president was not able to take this seriously, certainly for a couple ofs weeks, to the point he was able to express to the american people that he has a firm hand oneo the tiller. this is not a national security attack in and of itself, people like you have worried about this for a long time. whatng if there are one of thes attacks, the type that calls the country together that requires leadership ofy the federal government and at this point a lot ofme people don't trust thi president becauseus he's been dishonest about things, he's dismantled some of the institutions required for government, this isn't actually the national securityui attack that we fear. >> there say particular need at -- in this particular threat for the federal government to

stand up, lead and guide. here's why. there is a unique aspect to this threat. you can'tth see it, we don't kn howwe lethal it is. and we're not going to figure that out until it is too late. until exponential growth of the virus hasl awakened us. when you can't see your threat, when you don't know yet how deadly it is, you've got to have coordinated federal leadership to tell you. in 9/11, we all knew something was happening, right? you heard about increased chatter, we were going to get hit. we didn'to know how bad. we didn't know where. there are similarities right now. but miunfortunately at 9/11 it took the iconic massive unthinkable attack to wake everybody up and say if you see something, say something. we're not going to see this coming. we got to payee attention to th math, understand exponential growth and look to our leaders to tell usde we need to do this before the attack is on top of us. >> and 30 seconds, built if yt

are an b adversary of the unite states, you're looking at this saying, they're not asoo organid as we think. >> we're showing our hand here and the hand isn't too good and we're showing exploitation of this insh the area of online exploitation, cybereventual initi cyber vulnerabilities, you're going to see it happen, let's hunker downen now. you'll see it if we go to new voting systems and new ways of voting from home, that's going to get exploited. >> everybody who is voting from home, understand that you might be a target and make sure you're taking all the precautions you can with your employer. thank you. thank you for being here. coming up on "am joy," joy talks to a couple of people trapped in italy, an american andeo italian, quarantined together outside of florence. stay with us. n, quarantined together outside of florence stay with us getting older shouldn't mean giving up all the things she loves to do. it should just mean, well, finding new ways to do them.

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all right, that's it for me today. thank you for watching. "am joy" with joy reid begins right now. hi, joy. >> good morning. and ali, thank you for that information about the sort of financial, like, what you can make do, because we needed good news today. >> a little bit. a little bit of good news. >> a little bit of something. i think for a lot of people there is a lot of worry about the long-term economy. i was speaking with a friend of mine that owns a restaurant in new york and they're making the point that, you know, as much as people who have small businesses want to keep going and pay their employees, at a certain point

you can't, you know, drivers, freelancers, people who do deliveries, people who work for grubhub. it is a thing to worry about. it is a concern. >> and i was in a diner the other morning where the owner was really making a point to talk to all of his customers including me and say, you know, we're going to have food the whole time, be open the whole time and i think he was saying it for our benefit and for his staff's benefit to say i'm going to try to keep this going. this is my business, i depend on my employees. if people stop going to the diner, he'll have a problem making payroll and this is going to happen across the country, at place after place and this is where -- this is where a crisis becomes a recession and we have to try and do our best to make sure our fellow country members don't get into that situation as much as we can help it. >> well, ali, i think everybody else heard you more than i did, you're low in my monitor, but as usual, you are the greatest. you're the best guy to talk to about the economic issues. i'm wishing us all well. it is sunday, so we're praying. >> that's right. >> thank you very much,