ng is hard. like, quitting every monday hard. quitting feels so big. so try making it smaller, and you'll be surprised at how easily starting small can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. ♪ ♪ good evening to you, i'm richard lui at msnbc headquarters in new york city. in just a few minutes msnbc's lawrence o'donnell will be here with live coverage of tonight's debate between joe biden and bernie sanders with nearly two hours of analysis. but right now we have some new information about the ever-changing nationwide response to the coronavirus pandemic, including several states taking some drastic measures tonight. the cdc established new guidelines, it's recommended that events with 50 or more people are canceled for the next

eight weeks throughout the united states. that news comes the same night new york governor andrew cuomo announced new york city's public school system, the nation's largest, will close this week. currently 32 states have called for all public schools to be closed, on top of that a number of states are shutting down restaurants and bars to combat the spread of the coronavirus. ohio's governor, mike dewine, tweeted in response to his announcement, quote, every day we delay, more people will die. if we do not act and get some distance between people, our health care system in ohio will not hold up. also tonight for you, the federal reserve cutting its interest rate to zero and launching a $700 billion quantitative easing program in hopes of protecting the economy from the effects of the coronavirus. we're being told the democratic debate in d.c. has come to an end in time now to turn to lawrence o'donnell for msnbc's post-debate coverage.

this is msnbc's live coverage of the democratic presidential primary debate between former vice president joe biden and vermont senator bernie sanders. the coronavirus pandemic dominated the first hour of the debate. here is some of what the candidates had to say. >> my heart goes out to those who have already lost someone or those who are suffering from the virus. and this is bigger than any one of us. this calls for a national rallying to everybody to move together. >> first thing we haved to do whether or not i'm president is to shut this president up right now, because he is undermining the doctors and scientists who are trying to help the american people. it is unacceptable for him to be blabbering it unfactual information which is confusing the general public. >> joe biden and bernie sanders

called for increased testing in the united states, for the rapidly spreading virus, and economic relief for the american people who are suffering from that. >> i have to take care of those who, in fact, are exposed or likely to be exposed to the virus. and that means we have to do testing, have to get the testing kits up and ready. i would have the world health organization, i'd take advantage of the test kits they have available, even though the president says 1 million are coming, let's get all the tests we can done as quickly as we can. >> bottom line from an economic point of view what we have got to say to the american people, if you lose your job, you will be made whole. you're not going to lose income. if trump can put or the fed can put $1.5 trillion into the banking system, we can protect the wages of every worker in america. >> the biggest political development in the debate, which may be the biggest news of this debate, came when vice president

joe biden committed to naming a woman, choosing a woman as his vice presidential running mate if he gets the nomination. >> i commit that i will, in fact, appoint -- pick a woman to be vice president. there are a number of women who are qualified to be president tomorrow. i would pick a woman to be my vice president. >> just to be clear, you just committed here tonight that your rung mate if you get the nomination will be a woman? >> yes. >> the vice president committed to picking a woman as his running made. if you get the nomination, will you? >> in all likelihood, i will. for me it's not just nominating a woman. it is making sure that we have a progressive woman, and there are progressive women out there. so my very strong tendency is to move in that direction. >> leading off discussion of dat wait, claire mccaskill, former democratic senator from missouri. gene robinson, social editor and

pull litter prize life winning columnist for "the washington post." senior director of progressive programming at sirius xm programming. let's begin with the woman who is now on the short list for vice president of the united states, claire mccaskill. a very clear, solid commitment by joe biden to choose a woman vice president. your reaction to that? and the other aspects of the debate? >> first of all, i am glad he did that. i think it was a great strong moment. it will be the news of this debate. it's time that the democratic party recognize that it's women that get them across the finish line in election after election, and i think joe biden did something very smart. i thought it was interesting that bernie kind of equivocated on it, said he was moving on that exddirection. so i thought it was a smart thing and i'm encouraged by it. i'm having way too much fun with you, lawrence, to consider being on a short list so that's not

even possible. i thought overall nothing changed a lot tonight. i will say this having watched the president at that press conference this afternoon, either one of these men are so much better equip ped to lead this country. the bar so is low i thought both these candidates reminded the country what it would be like to have someone who was thinking about them first instead of their own political trajectory. and i don't think there was a lot of things tonight that would move the needle in one big way towards one candidate or against another candidate. i think joe biden remains in a commanding position in terms of the democratic nomination. >> zulina, when i interviewed joe biden last week, he came close to committing to a woman choice for vice president, but stopped short. he also emphasized, went out of his way to emphasize, the possibility of an african-american woman. and then in the final part of

our exchange, i asked him if it was important to him, when looking at vice presidential possibilities, is it important that person has had experience on the presidential debate stage? the way vice president did when he was running against barack obama and so impressed barack obama on that stage that he was chosen by barack obama? joe biden said, absolutely, experience on that presidential debate stage, very important factor, he said. so where are we? it looks like it's a pretty short list. >> i think the list includes senator kamala harris, perhaps even senator elizabeth warren or senator amy klobuchar. i think any one of those women, additionally not in the senate, stacey abrams. any of these women could be president, any of these women can command attention and has the credibility, and i think experience, to step into the shoes of the president if necessary. that's really what you're asking

when you're thinking these cheese choices first of all. secondarily, a response to the electorate. the democratic electorate from got joe biden to this point, through super tuesday, last week, to this moment, are propelled by women, women of color in particular. not responding to that segment of the electorate that brought joe biden to the top of the field would be an error. i'm surprised bernie sanders hedged on this. he doesn't hedge on questions about medicare for all, he criticizes those of us who don't unequivocally support every policy proposal he steps forw d forward. on a question about a woman, he can't unequivocally say yes? i think that's a big mistake and maybe he regrets that in this particular moment when jooibl was able to respond to the women in our electorate who are demanding this. it's about time we've had a woman, we're the majority of the voters. >> gene robinson, the first hour of the debate spent on a suggest

that hadn't been occupying space in previous debates, coronavirus. >> that's right. what i drew from that first hour of debate was a contrast between either of these candidates and president trump. their solutions to how to confront the coronavirus were essentially the same. they got into a back and forth over biden saying, look, you don't need a revolution, you don't need medicare for all to deal with the coronavirus. and then it got into the health care discussion argument that we have heard before. i think what really came across was the contrast, both of them saying, we'll listen to the doctors, we'll listen and follow where the science takes us, we'll treat this like a crisis and an emergency. and that compared to the way president trump has handled the

crisis is -- the contrast could not be more stark. i thought that overall it was -- the news was vice president biden saying he was going to choose a woman, and it was news because so much of the rest of the debate was 20 and 30-year-old opposition research about a vote that one of them took in the senate or in the house years ago. i don't think that's uppermost in voters' minds and i think biden took the opportunity to sort of pitch things forward and to make that news. he also said he would name an african-american woman to the supreme court. >> yes and it's taken us this long to get to that point. because there's been so much else. it's true, that was also part of what he was saying there, yes. go ahead. >> it was -- no, it was -- so by sort of pitching it forward in

that way and grabbing the headline from the debate, in a sense if you have to pick a winner of the debate i would pick biden because i think he did that. i think both of them were on their game, basically. and we know them by now and we're familiar with them by now. i don't think a whole lot of minds were changed, but i think biden had the best of the night because he made the news. >> let's listen to the way joe biden made that news, which would be in effect if he is the nominee and if he won, he would make history with both of these choices. a -- this woman vice president and an african-american woman on the supreme court. let's listen to this. >> i committed to if i'm elected president, have an opportunity to appoint someone to the courts, i'll appoint the first black woman to the courts. it's required that they have representation now. >> and he went on from there to

talk about the vice presidential slot. clare, it's a small section of the debate. there's an hour of coronavirus that comes long before that, before they get to that. then that's the kind of moment that in a debate, everyone watching, everyone watching takes that moment away. >> yeah, that's something that people won't forget. there will be people in the country that won't like it. but the voters that joe biden is appealing to, they're hearing him talk to them. and women in this country already, there's a huge gender gap in favor of the democratic nominee. women, especially suburban women, they don't like this guy in the white house, they don't like the way he acts, they don't like the way he conducts himself, they think he's arrogant and self-centered. while there may be some women who are still big trump supporters, i think joe biden knows the key to him taking office in november will in fact be the women who vote. you know, and i thought on the

coronavirus thing, i want to make one point, lawrence. i thought that joe biden's maybe strongest comeback to bernie on the medicare for all point was pointing out that italy has a single-payer government-run system and we all know what has happened to the health care system in italy in light of the coronavirus, gently pointing out that just having a single-payer system is not the answer to every crisis, medical crisis, that our country faces. >> and zerlina, when we heard joe biden make this announcement, it's clearly something that had to have been decided ahead of time. but he was very patient about the way he found his moments to lay it into the debate, that he would choose a woman vice president. but it's clearly the way the biden campaign planned to, in fact, grab what is an easy headline. i don't mean it in terms of the value of it. but just it's such a simple

thing to deliver in order to get that headline. >> right. i think that he took advantage of a moment that people probably weren't anticipating. i think most people looked to this debate to do what clare said, which is see the contrast between earlier today with the president and these two people who are trying to replace that president. and so the easiest thing you can do is make a headline that's wholly unrelated to the news cycle. i think that was smart and a response to the quip who are the majority, the women who are empowering the democratic party, not just to take control of the house but take control of the senate and the white house. i also want to say that i think joe biden's strongest moment in addition to this one moment about the vice president was when he made the contrast about a revolution versus results. i think that will resonate with older african-american voters, older latino voters who are already in the camp but are the ones who propelled him to this first-place status in the race. and the reason why i say that is

because nobody is trying to hear about your revolution when we're worried about hand sanitizer and clorox wipes and other supplies to take care of our families in this moment. i think the big-picture talk about medicare for all is important, but people want to be able to know what they can do tomorrow to make themselves and their families more secure. and i think that it's a missed opportunity for bernie sanders to elaborate beyond just his talking point of medicare for all. and that's unfortunate. but i do think that biden was smart to make the headline about the woman vice president, and that's what we're talking about still. >> gene robinson, joe biden comes into this debate with a massive lead in the latest national poll. new nbc poll of this weekend showing joe biden up over 60% nationally, bernie sanders about half that in the 32%, 34%, 35% range.

what did the biden campaign want to achieve tonight, what did the sanders campaign want to achieve tonight did they achieve it? >> the biden campaign wanted to keep things on the path they're on right now. and so i think they were basically successful at that. there were no huge mistakes, he talked about the ebola crisis instead of the coronavirus, he corrected himself. it happens at debates, the campaign trail, that's no big deal. i think the biden campaign didn't want to rock the boat. but i think also wanted to tell bernie sanders supporters that a biden administration would, in fact, be a progressive administration, would follow -- pursue progressive policies.

and i think that was part of their strategy. i think what the sanders camp wanted to do was change the direction of this race. sanders went on the attack more than biden did. but the way he went on the attack, i'm not sure it got a lot of purchase. you voted for this 20 years ago, you voted for the bankruptcy bill. does anybody really think that joe biden really is just itching to cut social security and medicare? i don't think people really think that. but sanders had to try to change the narrative of this race because he's staring down the barrel of four primaries on tuesday that polls say will go very poorly for him. he didn't do himself a lot of good with the castro comments as well, because one of those four

primaries is florida. >> all right, our panel's going to stay with us. we're going to squeeze in a quick break. when we come back we'll be joined by two experts on the coronavirus pandemic. we'll get their reaction to the news of the day and how this pandemic is traveling through the world and through this country. and we'll get their reaction to what they heard from the candidates tonight about the coronavirus pandemic in this debate. >> no one has to pay for whatever drugs needed because of the crisis. no one has to pay for hospital days because of the crisis, period. that is a national emergency, and that's how it's handled. it is not working in italy right now, and they have a single-payer system. s with mavy. ...i was cured. s with mavy. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test... ...if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and

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this is an all hands on deck. this is as someone said, maybe you, jake, this is bigger than any individual. this is bigger than yourself. this is about america. this is about the world. this is about how we bring people together. and make the kind of sacrifices we need to make to get this done. >> after a week-long national lockdown, italy today reported the biggest one-day death toll from the coronavirus, 368. that is more than china ever reported in a single day at the height of the outbreak in china. there have now been 1,809 deaths in italy, a 25% increase from

the day before. in the united states there are now at least 67 deaths with more than 3,400 reported cases. the trump administration says 1.9 million tests will be available this week. today the centers for disease control and prevention recommended no gatherings of 50 people or more, but that guidance does not apply to schools or businesses. vice president mike pence today said new advanced guidelines will be announced tomorrow. guidelines on social distancing. ohio and illinois announced today they will close bars and restaurants. new york city's public school system, the nation's largest public school system with 1.1 million students, will begin to close down tomorrow. and moments ago new york city mayor bill de blasio announced that beginning on tuesday, restaurants and bars will only be allowed to do takeout and

delivery service. dr. anthony fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, is not ruling out supporting a temporary national lockdown. >> americans should be prepared that they're going to have to hunker down significantly more than we as a country are doing. >> today the federal reserve announced it will lower interest rates by a full percentage point to a range of zero to .25%, and by at least $700 billion in government bonds. but dow futures are down 1,000 points, even with that news, about 4.5% of the market. today president trump said this. >> you don't have to buy so much, take it easy, just relax, we're doing great, it all will pass. it's a very contagious virus, it's incredible, but it's something that we have tremendous control over.

>> joining us now, dr. peter hotos, texas children's hospi l hospital, bay yore college of medicine. dr. vin gupta, pulmonologist and affiliate professor at university of washington medical center. dr. hoteez, the president said you don't have to buy so much, take it easy, relax, we're going to be great, all of this will pass. then he says it's a very contagious virus. what is your reaction to the way the president commented about it today? >> well, you know, the contrasts, pretty striking compared to some of the other elected leaders. for me, the day began well before the white house press conference, well before the debate. it was an op-ed piece by andrew

cuomo, governor of new york. i saw this at 5:00 this morning. where he said, the testing has not progressed as we want, we are now entering a new phase, in part because we've missed so many patients. and what really struck me was the fact that it's clear we may not be able to meet the surge in the number of patients that require hospital beds or icus or ventilators and calling on the army corps of engineers, the united states army, to build facilities. so he took it a notch level higher which i think was absolutely appropriate. and for me the rest of the day was all about seeing whether the white house or in the debate tonight, whether any of the two candidates matched that level of urgency that i share with governor cuomo. >> dr. hotez, do you think the candidates did match the right level of urgency tonight? >> well, nobody said anything bad tonight, neither senator

sanders nor vice president biden. clearly the vice president was at an advantage because he's been through some of this before, he's been through h1n1 as vice president, he's been through ebola, he's been through zika. so i thought the vice president was really pitch perfect tonight. i thought he really nailed it. and a lot of those elements -- maybe not going quite as far as the governors, but he was quite strong. bernie sanders, senator sanders, you know, really was sort of stuck to his talking points about health care for all, which is fine, it's relevant to this, but he couldn't really nail down the big pieces that the -- that america needs to do now. the other thing he said which was facutally incorrect is the drug companies are profiting off of this coronavirus infection. we're trying to -- we've developed a vaccine for a coronavirus, we can't get the big pharma players interested at all because there's no money to

be made for coronavirus. so on that one he was a bit tone deaf. he wasn't bad. he talked about the importance of access to health care. but in terms of the real big-picture stuff that needs to be done, the vice president was definitely ahead. >> dr. gupta, what was your reaction to what you heard from the presidential candidates tonight? >> well, i'll echo what dr. hotez, which is pandemic preparedness is not necessarily about strong primary health care system alone, it's about building capabilities that you can rapidly scale and deploy. it's about a health care workforce that's ready. point of care testing that we have a pipeline for. vaccines on the ready. having public, private, and nonprofit organizations working in concert. we didn't have that -- we haven't had that for ebola, we haven't had that with covid-19. it's having those pieces on the ready and being able to scale them up rapidly that we need. vice president biden talks about that. senator sanders talks about

medicare for all, which i think unfortunately has become so political that we're politicizing now this response to covid-19. i don't think we need that right now, we need more of a focus on what's going to bend the curve with the response to covid-19, i thought biden really nailed it. >> dr. gupta, the president today recited the names of the ceos and heads of all sorts of retailing companies out there and invoking their names, told americans to not worry about being able to get things that they want to buy at their local stores, and they shouldn't go out there and load up on things, they should just buy the normal amount that they would buy anyway. but no one out there knows whether their local stores, including the guys who run these giant chains, they don't know if the workers in seattle are going to be able to come to work next week. they don't know if the workers at a supermarket or neighborhood market in new york are going to be able to come to work next week.

that, being out in there in those stores, in my perception is what's driving those lines and this buying that might look like hoarding, but it may be real provisioning for basically a locking-down of the restaurant business that we're seeing getting increasingly restricted, especially in new york city now. >> i think you've nailed it, lawrence. there's uncertainty on the side of the american people which i think is driving these natural instincts. there's a feeling of a loss of agency by everybody. the 65-year-old patient with lung disease that i will see in clinic. i empower them to say, these are the things that you can do to take care of your health. we're losing that ability to say, individual empowerment with keep you healthy. we're shifting the paradigm and saying, help thy neighbor through things like social distancing. i think the problem is in addition to that uncertainty on the american people's side, us in the public health community are also uncertain. we don't know how many people are infected. what's the infection sfalgtsty

rate? not just the case fatality rate. how many people are truly infected? that's important information to know, we don't know it because we don't have broad testing, so there's a lot of uncertainty across all sectors here. >> thank you both for your service, thank you for joining our discussion, we really appreciate it. when we come back, we will be joined by members of a winning, a democratic winning presidential campaign team. david pleasure and robert gibbs will react to tonight's presidential campaign debate next. >> if i don't win the nomination, i and i think every other democratic candidate is prepared to come together to do everything humanly possible to defeat donald trump. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. i love you! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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>> joining our special coverage, tonight, david plouffe, former campaign manager and white house senior adviser for president barack obama, msnbc political analyst. robert gibbs, former white house press secretary during the obama administration. david plouffe, let's start with you. your analysis of tonight's debate. what mattered, what is going to have meaning coming out of this debate into the campaign? >> the news i think will be vice president biden's commitment to select a woman as his running mate. i think that will be the news tonight, tomorrow, next day. he's the front-runner, he's got a dominant delegate position. i think it was one of his stronger debates. bernie sanders, i think as he always is, was consistent. nothing really changed the trajectory going into tuesday where i think joe biden should dominate. i think big questions going forward. at that point biden probably has a lead that's insurmountable. we don't know when elections are going to take place. when you're running a campaign,

you want as much certainty as possible and this is about the most uncertain election we've had maybe in history. so i think there's a lot that will be clearer from a delegate standpoint as we go into wednesday. i think the debate tonight did not change any of that. the question is what does the next 60 days look like in terms of actual campaign? >> first hour of a two-hour debate on one subject, a subject that didn't exist in the campaign even a month ago, it wasn't a serious campaign subject or a major one. but then joe biden, with one response about choosing the definitive commitment response, choosing a woman vice president, puts a handle on this debate, a very simple handle on this debate for so many people out there who might have gotten lost or had their minds wander in some other areas of the debate. that's the one anyone can take home. joe biden wants to have a woman vice president. >> absolutely. look, he comes into the first part of that debate on coronavirus having been the vice

president for eight years and polls show him as the strongest person to respond to a crisis, then uses the other part of the debate to really lay down a marker. look, the vice president once called health care a big deal, if you will. i'll leave the short cable version of that for others. but this was a huge deal on what it signifies going forward. i think that clip you played to open our segment about getting people excited about this election, i think that's one thing the voters can really wrap their head around and get excited about in this election. certainly a huge chunk of the electorate is going to be awfully excited about the fact that a woman is going to be on the ticket. >> and david, you might be able to help us with this. when i interviewed joe biden last week, i put it to him on the vice presidential choice. was it important to him? was it an important factor to him in choosing a vice presidential running mate that he has seen that person on the presidential debate stage with

him, the way barack obama saw joe biden on the debate stage with him, was impressed enough to want him to be his vp choice? and joe biden said, he called it quote a very important factor. and he gave a very short answer, for him. it threw me off rhythmically because he just said, i think that's a very important factor. he kind of left it there. and i went back and underlined it, and he was really trying to deliver, you should be focusing on the women who were on that debate stage with me as my short list for vp. does that make sense to you, in your experience with a presidential campaign, if you take someone who's already been on that presidential debate stage, they are ahead of the game in the experience they need? >> well, you've seen them more recently in the arena. so there's no doubt, even though joe biden back in '08 got out after iowa, he was very impressive in the debates. and so that was definitely something that was i think a

positive factor for him. yeah three people who shared the stage with hem, senators harris, klobuchar, warren. but we've got a lot of others. by the way, having gone through this process, helped lead this process of picking somebody, the fact that he's committed to women, a woman, does women that say you're going to have a list of 25. 13 women, 12 men. you're down to 13. he's going to look at everybody. senator cortez masto, san fernando. stacey abrams. gretchen whitmer, governor of michigan. the good news is we have a plentiful group of people who both are qualified to be president on day one and to robert's point i think will excite folks. i do want to say bernie's comment -- bernie has not generated turnout amongst young people, but this is my biggest concern. this would be even if bernie wasn't in the race. how do we create the turnout and energize young people? we didn't do what we needed to

do in '16. as part of the obama campaigns, we did it, it was the hardest thing we did. this is the manhattan project for the biden campaign or the democratic party, how do we do better with young people? turnout and energy? >> robert, i've had a wiseguy response to this question of who would joe biden pick? kind of around the office. i've always said, he doesn't know how to run on a ticket that isn't historic. there he was on the ticket with the first black presidential candidate, and they win. joe biden knows the excitement of the historic ticket and being a part of that. >> yeah, and i think it's the power that he's going to need to continue to excite voters across the spectrum, to keep running up the score as he's done in these recent primaries in the suburbs. i actually don't know that you have to just pick one of the three that have been on that stage because in reality the vice presidential candidate's

going to go through exactly one debate in this race. it's certainly an important one. but there's only going to be one, and i think as david said, there is a deep bench of geographic diversity as well, of ethnic diversity that you can really pick from here. and i think it will be something, as david said too, they've got to do something to excite younger voters. i think that's one of the things i wish joe biden would have done a little bit more of tonight is maybe laud senator sanders for his ability to do that. bought also i think it's the way sometimes he talks about issues, framing things like climate change as a real existential crisis so that that reaches out to younger voters. i think there's a language change that you'll have to see as this campaign progresses when biden is almost certainly the likely nominee. >> david, what did the sanders campaign have to achieve tonight, given that they are now

in the latest national poll running farther behind joe biden than ever? >> well, listen, i think we're on a delegate trajectory that's quite clear. something remarkable that i can't see in our near future to interrupt that. i thought bernie sanders' comment that he made when he spoke in vermont a few days ago, his performance tonight, there was some debates about their various records in the '90s. but generally i think bernie sanders knows where this campaign's going, when is joe biden's going to wake up wednesday with a delegate lead that may not seem on paper enormous, but in our delegate system is. and so i think the trajectory's clear. i know folks who don't understand delegates that much may say, how can you say that? biden's up 160, maybe he goes up 260. but the truth is for bernie sanders after wednesday to defeat joe biden, he'd probably have to win the rest of the states 75-25, and that's not going to happen. so i think the question is, he

just makes some hard decisions wednesday. georgia was going to be next tuesday, that's now been delayed. we don't know when the next primary is. that being said, i spent a bunch of time in the battleground states. trump's running an aggressive campaign in those states. the sooner we can move to that, the better. >> david and robert, we'll squeeze in a break here, come back to you later in our coverage. when we come back, we will be joined by the nbc news road warriors who are out there covering these two campaigns tonight. >> the single most significant thing we can do to deal with the larger problem down the road of income inequality is get rid of donald trump. donald trump is exacerbating every single one of these problems. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need.

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>> joining our discussion now, nbc's ali vitali, covering the biden campaign, and nbc's shaquille brewster, covering bernie sanders' campaign. shaquille, what did the sanders campaign hope to accomplish going into the debate tonight, behind in the polls? >> going into this debate, they know that they are at an uphill battle, facing an uphill battle, especially when you look at states to come on tuesday. they know they're going in with expectations that are really high. coming out of it, talking to his team, i reached out to aides and advisers, normally we'd have a spin room, go in, ask them some questions. what you're hearing from them is senator sanders held his own. they point to different moments that you saw with senator sanders. being able to draw those contrasts. he talked about the coronavirus, which is a key topic during this debate. he not only talked about his solutions for coronavirus but linked it to his overall ideology of medicare for all, pushing for the big programs,

pushing for universal ideas, saying it's not enough to just focus on the crisis, you have to look at what caused this crisis. the bottom line for senator sanders and his campaign is they needed a knockout blow from this debate, they know that vice president biden is coming vice biden is coming into this and was coming into tonight with some momentum. he is coming into this those tests on tuesday with a lot of momentum behind him. it's not clear they stopped him. vice president biden held his own on that stage and there was no key moment that really did anything to bring him down. >> ali, given that there was no spin room tonight, did you have to get your biden spin over the phone also? and also , it looks like they were really ready to go on this announcement of a woman as a vice presidential nominee. they had a tweet ready to go out of the biden account pretty much as much as soon as soon as he said it. can you confirm for us that was a planned announcement? >> so i am going to take these questions in order of the way

you asked them because, yes, we had to turn to the phones. the biden team feeling really good. they are, in fact, still on the phone. our embed is still on there talking with them about how they feel they did tonight. but i think there's reminder that amidst the public health crisis, there is still a presidential primary raging on because, yes, coronavirus was front and center tonight. but at the same time, you saw bernie sanders go in with the goal of reminding the public that a lot of positions joe biden's taken over the course of his career are out of step. saying that he's backing policies that were popularized and pushed by people like elizabeth warren. trying to make the case that he wants to be someone who could be the nominee. and trying to bring in people who, at this time, support someone like senator bernie sanders. the question is going to be is this an electorate that cares about flip-flops and changed positions? or do they just care about beating donald trump?

that's the thing shaq and i have heard consistently. and then on the final question you asked me, lawrence, yes, the lasting image out of this debate is going to be joe biden saying definitively that he is going to pick a female vice president. i had to hop off that call a little early to talk to you. i don't know if it was brought up that this was preplanned. but at the same time, we know a lot of these spontaneous moments that tend to stick with us, they are born of hours of preparation. and you saw it. the biden team followed up immediately with a tweet reiterating what the candidate said on the debate stage that he would pick a female vice presidential contender if he were the nominee of the party. >> thank you both for joining our discussion tonight. and we're back with former senator claire mccaskill and eugene robinson. i'd like to listen to something joe biden said tonight about elizabeth warren. saying this in the very same debate where he announces that his vice presidential nominee if he gets to choose one will definitely be a woman. let's listen to this. >> i've talked with senator

warren about her proposal. this was the first opportunity we've had to make substantial change in what we couldn't get done in a republican administration. that's why we talked last -- two nights ago. and i supported her proposal. and it's a good proposal. it's a solid proposal. and she should get credit for having introduced it. >> claire mccaskill, i have talked with senator warren about her proposal. we didn't know he'd talked with senator warren about anything other than wishing her best wishes when she dropped out of the campaign. >> yeah. and i think him bringing up elizabeth warren was also preplanned because it is very obvious to people in the progressive side of the democratic party that elizabeth warren has not endorsed bernie sanders. i think there was an assumption that those two candidates occupied a lot of the same territory in our party. and that they would support one another. so the fact that elizabeth warren has not endorsed bernie

sanders. that says something to a lot of her supporters. and, frankly, probably has done more to give people a chance to look at joe biden again as somebody who is -- is a pragmatic progressive. >> and gene robinson, what joe biden's announcing there, as i talked to senator warren, i have looked at her proposal, i am now moving in her direction on an issue, in a space there i wasn't there before. bernie sanders could have done the same thing on a handful of things. i've talked to senator warren, i've decided i'm going to move toward her proposal but we didn't hear that. >> no, we didn't hear that. bernie sanders seemed to be waiting for senator warren to move toward him. and that has not happened. you know, i think that the other -- the other aspect of mentioning senator warren is it's sort of reminded me of all the other former contenders who dropped out and -- and fell in line behind joe biden. and i think it -- you know, in

so far as he is able to sort of impress warren as -- as part of his no posse, which he is not officially, certainly not, she hasn't endorsed anybody. but that act of kind of embracing her, i think, does send something of a signal to -- to her -- to her supporters, who are many and who are -- who were enthusiastic about her ka candidacy. who were -- who were very upset that she, ultimately, dropped out. and, you know, who are -- who are trying to get comfortable with their new home if their new home is with biden. >> and, claire, one of the things both candidates did tonight very emphatically was i will absolutely campaign -- joe biden saying i'll absolutely campaign for bernie. vote for bernie. all of that. bernie saying the same thing back to joe biden. but it seems like another aspect of joe biden mentioning elizabeth warren is kind of double underlining that elizabeth warren has not endorsed bernie sanders.

there's an effect to that of making bernie sanders feel a little bit, or appear to be, a little bit more lonely in a corner of his own in the party. >> yeah. i do think there was a sense of trying to perhaps isolate him. and listen. he's got a lot of passionate followers. if the primary turns out tuesday the way the polls predict, what this country is really longing for -- i don't care if you're a democrat or a republican except for maybe the trump cult -- is for us to unite, especially right now. and i think joe biden did a really good job tonight of being large, big, presidential. they got into some tit for tat on their records over many decades of public service. but, at the end of the night, i think joe biden felt more presidential. felt like he could unite, could lead, restore our place in the world stage. and i just hope that if he has a commanding lead after tuesday, that bernie folds in and really

does his best to bring his supporters along. >> gene robinson, one of the reasons i did not expect joe biden to be chosen for vp by barack obama in 2008 is he had the longest senate record of anybody who you would consider. and having long voting records in the senate has always been a very bad thing to drag into a national campaign. didn't seem to matter in 2008. does it matter now? >> no, it doesn't matter. i mean, it certainly doesn't matter when you got two senators. you know, one who was in the senate forever. one who was in the house and then in the senate. who have these records. so it was sort of tit for tat. i, frankly, believe a lot of voters probably tuned out during that process. it happened 20 years ago. what are you going to do now? >> claire mccaskill, gene robinson, thank you for joining our discussion. our coverage of tonight's presidential debate and the coronavirus pandemic continues.

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is taking place in terms how to deal with the deficit, everything is on the table. i did not support any of those cuts in social security, veterans. >> whoa. whoa. whoa. everything was on the table. all right. you just said it. including, in your judgment, cuts to social security and veteran. >> in order to get the kinds of changes we need on other things related -- >> joe. >> but we did not cut it. >> i know because people like me helped stop that. >> i never voted to cut social -- >> not talking about -- >> senator sanders was asked about the possibility of federal government bailouts for industries that could be hurt by the coronavirus pandemic. here is what senator sanders had to say. >> we need to stabilize the economy. but we can't repeat what we did in 2008. joe voted for that. i voted against it because we have got to do more than save the banks or the oil companies. our job, right now, is to tell every working person in this country, no matter what your income is, you are not going to

suffer as a result of this crisis, of which you had no control. >> vice president biden. >> had those banks all gone under, all those people bernie says he cares about would be in deep trouble. deep, deep trouble. all those little folks. we'd have gone out of business. they'd find themselves in position where they would lose everything that they had in that bank, whether it was $10 or $300 or a savings account. this was about saving an economy. and it did save the economy. and the banks paid back, and they paid back with interest. i agree with bernie, someone should have gone to jail. >> both candidates, once again, reaffirmed that they would support the other if the other wins the nomination. >> if bernie's the nominee, i will not only support him, i will campaign for him. and i believe the people who support me will do the same thing because the existential threat to the united states of america is donald trump. >> if i don't win the nomination, i, and i think every other democratic candidate, is

prepared to come together to do everything humanly possible to defeat donald trump. >> joining our panel during this hour of coverage is john heilemann, national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc. co-host of show time's the circus and editor in chief of the recount. president and ceo of vote latino. eddie glaude, african-american studies at princeton university is with us. also, an msnbc contributor. and zerlina maxwell is back with us. but first, we want to hear from each campaign. we begin with symone sanders. symone, thank you very much for joining us tonight. bernie sanders is saying that joe biden repeatedly, on the floor of the united states senate, decades ago, advocated for freezing or cutting social

security spending and benefit spending. your reaction to that? >> well, i share vice president biden's reaction tonight on the debate stage. look. "the washington post" has fact checked senator sanders' claims about vice president biden and social security. and if anyone wonders where vice president biden has stood throughout his entire career on social security, i invite you to visit our website. www.joebiden.com and read his plan for social security. it expands social security, not cuts it. so i just think, you know, these attacks, whether it's on social security, whether it's on vice president biden and how he fought and helped -- how he fought and helped save, you know, autoworkers and folks with the recovery act, so on and so forth, i think these attacks have fell flat, lawrence, honestly. was a regurgitation of things he has said, attacks he has lobbed at vice president biden throughout this entire campaign. and they fell flat tonight because the american people aren't listening to it.

they know joe biden. and they know it's not true. >> when did joe biden decide that tonight's debate would be when he announced that he would choose a woman as his vice presidential candidate? >> well, you know, this is something he's thought about long and hard, obviously. and he chose tonight because it was a big commitment and he wanted a big stage to say it on. and, frankly, i think that exchange was -- was one of the best moments of the debate. when asked about women in government and in leadership, vice president biden doubled down on his commitment to put a black woman on the supreme court. and then he committed to, emphatically, naming a woman as his vice president. it was a yes or no question. and vice president biden gave an emphatic and enthusiastic yes. so i know folks are asking who? which women? i don't have a list for you right now. but what i can say is that vice president biden looks forward to standing by his commitments made tonight. >> that's okay, symone. we have john hooeilemann here.

so he'll have his own list. when i interviewed the vice president a week ago, he came so close to saying this and i think you saw that in the interview. and the way i asked him about it was did he understand what some women were calling the gut punch of elizabeth warren dropping out of the race? meaning there were now no longer any women in the presidential race after having had so many more than qualified united states senators and other women in this race. and he said, as closely as he could, that he was certainly strongly thinking about a woman for vice president. and an african-american woman for that matter, for vice president. but he was, obviously, waiting for tonight, for the big moment, to say what he's -- it seems he's been thinking for a while. >> yeah. i mean, absolutely. look. i was there for your interview with vice president, lawrence. i was on the other side of the door. and the reality is that your -- your question about the gut punch that many young women

across this country, young women and seasoned women alike, have felt is real. i'm 30 years old and it was remarkable to see so many women in this race stand up and say i, too, can be president. and so, as vice president biden said, sexism is still very real in this country. racism, frankly, is still very real in this country and we have to call it out when we see it. and you can bet that if vice president biden is elected president, he will be -- he will continue to be a partner in that fight in the white house. >> symone sanders, thank you very much for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> we turn now to david sorota, senior advisor for bernie sanders presidential campaign. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> david, so when the questions shifted from joe biden, when he made that surprise announcement that he would choose a vice presidential nominee who will be a woman, for sure. when it shifted to your candidate, to senator sanders, the best senator sanders could say was that he would probably

do that. and his phase was in all likelihood. is he going to be more clear or firm about that? or is he going to leave it at that? that it is a likelihood? >> look. i think that there's going to be a process, a vice presidential selection process. and i think senator sanders has said before that he would very much like to nominate a woman. but he has also said, you know, there is going to be a whole comprehensive process for vice presidential selection. i think he was clear about that tonight and that's where we stand right now. >> and, david, what was senator sanders trying to accomplish tonight? given the change and does this affect him in dedatebates, the changes that we've seen in the poll? joe biden coming out with his biggest lead yet. i couldn't detect any strategic change in bernie sanders' debate performance because i have seen nothing more consistent in politics than bernie sanders'

debate performances. >> i think that's part of the message, which is that we need a candidate at the top of the democratic ticket who has been consistent. who you know that what they're saying is -- has actually been followed up with a record that shows that they are serious about that. you mentioned the social security debate. the social security debate is an important debate unto itself. it's also an important marker for the larger debate. and that is to say that bernie sanders has always fought to protect and expand social security. joe biden going on national television and insisting he was never for cuts or reductions in benefits is absurd and ridiculous. you were there in the senate, i believe, on the finance committee when joe biden was on the floor of the senate saying that he wanted to freeze funding for social security. and the point of bringing that up is that we need to have a nominee who can level with the american people. who can be trusted to tell the truth to the american people. especially, when the democrats are going to be running against a candidate, donald trump, who is a pathological liar. so on all of these issues

whether it's social security, whether it's the iraq war, whether it's healthcare, bernie sanders has shown he is a candidate who says what he means and his record reflects exactly what he means. >> david, how do you -- how do you get voters to see the past the way you see the past? so many voters who don't see any relevance in a budget floor debate in the united states senate in the 1990s or the 1980s to what they're voting on tonight, what they're considering voting on tonight, which is who can protect us from a pandemic? who can handle public health the best? who can run this government in a way that will course correct from the trump era? >> it's a very fair question. and the answer is that it's about consistency. can the american people trust that what the candidate is saying is something that the candidate will follow through on? let's talk about medicare for all. we know that bernie sanders has been for medicare for all for years. and will put a bill in front of the congress in the first week

of his presidency for medicare for all. that is not something that his record betrays. that's not a flip flop. that is something that his record reflects. and so the point here is, again, it's not necessarily issue after issue, the specifics of the details. although those are important. it's whether you can trust that the candidate who is talking has a record that shows they will deliver on that record. and when we talk about public health and the coronavirus crisis, look, this is a crisis that requires a political revolution in this country. joe biden is a candidate who has said that he believes nothing should fundamentally change. that's a direct quote that he told his donors. bernie sanders is saying that, especially in light of the coronavirus crisis, we need a candidate who promises fundamental change, a political revolution in this country, so that this count vi protectry is for the long-term. >> david sirota, senior advisor to the bernie sanders campaign. thank you for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> we are going to be back with

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i commit that i will, in fact, appoint -- pick a woman to be vice president. there are a number of women who are qualified to be president tomorrow. i would pick a woman to be my vice president. >> just to be clear, you just committed here tonight that your running mate, if you get the nomination, will be a woman. >> yes. >> we are joined now by john heilemann, eddie glaude, and zerlina maxwell. john heilemann, they knew that was going to be their big headline. their planned it and it's working. >> clever, right? >> yeah. >> you know, very straightforward. but minor piece of political genius to guarantee that you will have the best -- that you will have the main headline out of the debate. and you are getting it for committing your candidate for doing something he was going to do anyway, which is pick a woman vice presidential nominee so they won the night in that

sense. obviously, something that's usually popular with constituents of the democratic party. if you are joe biden, to get to -- keep cranking up enthusiasm, appeal to those key c constituencies, especially to younger voters, that is a thing that offers endless opportunity to do that in addition to making history down the line. >> let's listen to how bernie sanders responded to that. >> the vice president committed to picking a woman as his running mate. if you get the nomination, will you? >> in all likelihood, i -- i will. >> maria tracy kumar, in all likelihood. >> yeah, he missed an opportunity. but i have to tell you the enthusiasm of joe biden announcing he would pick a running mate to be a woman was not lost on my 7-year-old who bounded up the stairs did you hear what i just heard? and she was superenthusiastic

because what we were able to demonstrate in this past election is we had so many qualified women running for office. so many girl, whether women of color or they were white, they were seeing themselves on that stage and they were so dispoi disappointed they were not part of that final two tonight. a coalition of individuals, not just young women, but women of color. and that's why who the running mate now is, which female, who actually speaks to those values, is going to be so important because it's going to have to be someone that can bring in a lot of the southern base. and a lot of those folks that are disproportionately women of color. >> eddie glaude, who is that, that joe biden would be considering? he -- he came so close to -- in my interview with him a week ago of saying he stressed woman but then he really went out of his way to stress possibly african-american woman. he also really emphasized how important a factor it is that

woman have experience on the debate stage already, which makes it a short list. >> if there was an opening on the court. i think that's really important. look. i mean, early on in the campaign, remember he was talking -- talking about stacey abrams. there's been conversations and you can see it online and elsewhere about kamala harris. folks have floated amy klobuchar. and of course there's elizabeth warren out there. i think there's -- there are plenty of women out there who are -- who are qualified. who are extraordinary in their ability to, in some ways, i think deepen the ticket. create excitement with regard to the ticket in some ways. but i think it's really important really to kind of drill down what sanders' hesitation was all about. and that is we need to be careful with the kind of easy-identity politics. it would be one question to ask stacey abrams to join the ticket. it would be another question to ask amy klobuchar to join the ticket and how would the progressive wing of the party respond? so i think it's important that we celebrate this move but we understand that it requires, in some ways, an understanding of

the politics of the women who are coming to join the ticket as well. >> zerlina, pick that up. what do you think it means in terms of what joe biden needs on the ticket politically? he's already said a woman. he's given strong hints, possibly, african-american woman. but what does it mean to the -- to, politically, who that woman should be? is there a way to reach over to sanders' voters with this choice? >> yes, i do think so. and i do agree with eddie that you don't pick any woman. but i had a problem with that answer from bernie sanders because i think there is a different way to answer it without appearing to hedge. and so i do think it matters a lot that you have certain policy positions that align with people in the progressive base, which also make up about a third of the democratic primary electorate. i think there is a way you can say you are going to pick a woman who has a set certain of values that you share, and that we have a big tent on the

democratic side without appearing to not be able to unequivocally say it is important that we have representation in the vice presidential position and also at the top. there is a way you can answer that question, emphasizing the importance of representation without appearing to seem like it's not as important to you as it is to the millions of american women who felt that gut punch when the last woman, elizabeth warren, dropped out of the race. so i do think that was a missed opportunity. and i think that any woman joe biden picks has to be more progressive than him on a variety of different issues. and i think will be able to do well if they can speak directly to that base, which is women of color and, you know, any winning democratic ticket needs to be able to engage and excite women of color. who are the base. who will turn out, not just themselves but all the people in their households. and that's what they need to pick in terms of the vice presidential nominee to

complement, i think what was a strong kacandidacy and strong debate performance by joe biden tonight. >> joe biden's decades in the united states senate were on trial tonight. prosecuted by bernie sanders. and by the moderators in some instances. let's look at his response to a question about his record on sanctuary cities, and whether he still thinks now what he thought then. the control room tells me they don't have it so i'm going to read it. he was asked about sanctuary cities. vice president biden, you opposed sanctuary cities as a presidential candidate in 2007. where do you stand now? should undocumented immigrants be arrested by local police, turned over to immigration officials? joe biden's answer, john heilemann, was, no and he was done. one-word answer. no. he is considered one of the most verbose people in politics. he boiled it down to one word. very effective answer but he struggled with the rest of his record. bernie sanders always wins on the iraq war vote record issue. but then you get back into

social security in the 1990s and the 1980s and i'm not sure who is voting on what joe biden said back then, now. >> i'm not sure either and i think, you know, the -- the challenge that biden had in this debate, it seems to me, more than any other is he's going to be the democratic nominee. he's -- the math is now set up that it's almost impossible. david plough laid it out for you last hour. >> and he's going to be back and lay out some more math for us in this hour. >> so what's this debate about? this debate is about whether joe biden, in the long run, is beginning the process of unifying the party. and what does that mean? it means getting bernie sanders' voters, many of whom didn't vote for hillary clinton in 2016, getting those people enthused enough to vote for joe biden. bernie sanders, before this debate and multiple occasions during this debate, though he took some shots at biden. his tone was much softer than it could have been. much softer than it has been at various times. he kept trying to cue up joe

bid biden, not to have a debate about 20 years ago because the truth is, that debate is not relevant to what's really on the table here. and what biden, i think, failed to do in the second half the debate was to try to make that pivot where he could basically find himself in agreement with bernie sanders over and over again on goals. on ends. on aspirations without having to get bogged down in the weeds of the record. i just -- i think it's not going to matter in the long-term because, again, he is going to be the nominee and he's going to have a very good night tuesday night. but what he didn't find was a way to take those questions and make them an opportunity to get the political work done that he ultimately has to get done. >> one of the things i liked about his answer on sanctuary cities is -- is the simple choice of the one-word yes or no to answer a question in a deb e debate. something i always advocate as powerful when you can do it. but the other strong thing about

it is he makes -- doesn't try to make any excuse for his previous position on this that he is changing to now. and, in effect, trying to basically deliver the message the presence tent tense and thee tense is what matters here. >> it was unequivocally he will not. and part of it is that voto latino were part of the task force for police reform. and one of the things we found was the number one concern they had with police -- police surveillance and with i.c.e. was the fact that without sanctuary cities, they were coupled. what we were able to learn and were able to share is that by decoupling i.c.e., communities were actually safer. and that's where a lot of this comes from. the idea that sanctuary cities actually makes communities safer. police enforcement are for it and they recognize the importance of keeping communities safe. that -- but let's back down a little bit for a little bit. the most important piece today

that i believe with biden was that he was able to demonstrate how presidential he was. he was able -- he and bernie sanders were both able to talk about the coronavirus and talk about the needs of everyday american people. that they needed to create a social safety net for the present and build for the future. and he was the only candidate on stage that was clearly able to say i will bring the international community back to american leadership. and right now, when so many people are at odds and they are concerned with our ability to not only form and safeguard the american public but recognizing how interglobal this is, that was incredibly important for him. and i disagree with john. i actually think he didn't have to talk about his own political experience. he was able to say, look, bernie, that was -- that was yesterday. let's talk about today and the future. and he was able to say, look, i will campaign for you, bernie, if you campaign for me. and that was important. >> our distinguished panel is staying with us over this break. and when we return, we will

consider the latest news in the coronavirus pandemic. we'll be joined by a doctor who is giving us the latest on what is happening tonight in america as this virus spreads. we'll be right back. >> vice president biden, you opposed sanctuary cities as a presidential candidate in 2007. where do you stand now? should undocumented immigrants, arrested by local police, be turned over to immigration officials? >> no. ♪ do you recall, not long ago ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ all we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪

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tonight's democratic presidential debate started and ended with how vice president joe biden and senator bernie sanders would address the coronavirus pandemic. >> with all due respect to medicare for all, you have a single-payer system in italy. it doesn't work there. it has nothing to do with medicare for all. that would not solve the problem at all. we can take care of that right now by making sure that no one has to pay for treatment. period. because of the crisis. no one has to pay for whatever drugs are needed, period, because of the crisis. no one has to pay for hospitalization because of the crisis, period. that is a national emergency. and that's how it's handled. >> senator sanders insisted that the coronavirus pandemic serves as proof that america needs medicare for all. >> when we spend twice as much

per capita on healthcare as any other nation, one might expect that we would have enough doctors all over this country. one might expect that we would have affordable prescription drugs. one might expect that we are preparing, effectively, for a pandemic. that we are ready with the ventilators, with the icus, with the test kits that we need. we are not. >> joiningmy discussi my discus primary care physician who served in the obama administration. dr. patel, thank you for joining us tonight. what did the candidates get right? what did they get wrong in the discussion of coronavirus tonight? >> i think what they got right is just drawing attention, both biden and sanders, drawing attention to kind of the extreme need for action. and probably concentrating even more on the fact that we could have done a lot of this earlier. whether it was vice president biden talking about what we did

do in the obama administration during h1n1, ebola, et cetera. and sanders highlighting kind of all the gaps that exist. by the way, a lot of it is because donald trump has dismantled the affordable care act, which sanders doesn't want to emphasize. but that's exactly why we're in the situation we're in. >> that's one of the surprising elements for me tonight is that neither one of the candidates mentioned that, oh by the way, as this coronavirus is raging through the country, the president of the united states is, currently, trying to take healthcare away from more than 20 million americans by going to the united states supreme court. and trying to get the affordable care act ruled unconstitutional, in its entirety. that's what donald trump is doing for healthcare coverage tonight. and no watcher of that debate was told about that. >> absolutely, lawrence. and nobody reminded people that this started the minute he was elected into office. where if it weren't for the late senator john mccain, we would

have dismantled the affordable -- repeal and replace with nothing might have been a reality. could you imagine? i mean, we're not in great shape today and, certainly, both biden and sanders got that right. but, really, what would have happened if we had even 50 million more people with no access to healthcare? >> and, dr. patel, as a veteran of the obama white house, what is it like when you see the president come out there and lead a group out to the microphone today, and you watch the president make a few minutes of comments that include everything's going to be okay. comments like that. and then the president leaves. and simply leaves the job of communicating everything else about this to the vice president and the others who were left in front of that microphone. >> look. all i can say is thank goodness for dr. tony fauci because without him and maybe even some other ex-trump administration officials like scott gotlieb, i

mean, we would really have no clear communication whatsoever. so, you know, you asked, lawrence, how does it make me feel as an american, as a former obama veteran, and as a physician? it's deeply disturbing. and i'll leave this camera and i will' g get calls from doctors saying we can't get ahold of anybody to give us guidance. i mean, this is very real. so this is not a podium moment to say everything's great. and we also don't want to induce panic. but the fact that we have this representation at the podium, in front of the camera, from our nation's highest leader. it actually does, ironically, induce panic. the lack of concentration and commitment is just doing injustice to the hundreds of thousands of people who are really on the front lines and taking the toll of this disease. >> so with people dying in this country from this illness, and more people contracting it every

day, when the president stepped up to the microphone today. the very first thing he said was that he was happy. he used the word happy. and what he was happy about was the interest rate set by the federal reserve. he is saying that while people have loved ones in hospitals around this country today, dying from this disease. what was your reaction to what the president was so happy about today in that press conference? >> oh, it's -- it's just an insult. and -- and put politics aside, which i know can be hard to do, especially during this crisis, but putting politics aside, this is not a time to be happy. or if there is something to be happy about, it's the fact that, despite his leadership, we actually have people stepping forward and putting their lives on the line. so it's -- it's just an insult. and it reminds me, lawrence, that this is not -- the reason he is coming to the mic is not motivated out of sincere concern for the american people.

it's because his polling numbers have told him that he's doing poorly. the economy is tanking. and that's not because of his sincere kind of commitment to the americans. >> dr. patel, thank you very much for joining our constitution tonight. we really appreciate it. and when we come back, robert gibbs and david plough will join us. they know more about presidential campaigning than anybody you're going to listen to. especially, successful, democratic presidential campaigns. the campaign that elected barack obama. that's coming up. >> i voted against it. in the house. and i was right. and i don't have to rethink my position because that's what leadership is about. having the guts to take an unpopular vote. unpopular vote every night. right after dinner. definitely after meatloaf. like clockwork. do it! run your dishwasher every night with cascade platinum. a load with as few as 8 dishes, is all it takes to save water. an energy star certified dishwasher

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the board. why is it that i'm winning all those places? what's the reason? what's the reason? the reason is because they know i am a democrat with a capital d who, in fact, believes that our base is the base of the democratic party, which are hardworking men and women. and who, in fact, are high school educated. african-americans and minorities including hispanics but all minorities. suburban women. people who, in fact, have a sense of our place in the world. >> four states will be voting on tuesday with 577 delegates at stake. and the first day of primary voting since donald trump declared a state of national

emergency due to the coronavirus pandemic. back with us, david plough, former campaign manager and white house senior advisor for president barack obama. he is also an msnbc political analyst. and robert gibbs is with us, he was the white house press secretary for president obama. david plough, florida, illinois, ohio, arizona, in order of delegate count, what happens on tuesday? what does it mean to where the presidential campaign goes from there? >> big states. lot of delegates. if the race unfolds anywhere near what the polls suggest it could, you know, joe biden probably adds 200 or 250 delegates alone from that night on top of his lead right now. so, you know, he could end that night 350, 400 ahead. which, again, is an insurmountable lead. i do think it'll be interesting, lawrence, a lot of vote is happening by mail in those states. we encourage everybody to keep

doing that where they can. but he's going to exit those big four states with a massive lead. i'll also be looking very carefully to see what the latino vote in both florida and arizona. very different, those populations. does joe biden improve his performance over some of the other states that held primaries previously? >> robert gibbs, you can imagine a situation on tuesday where all those older voters in florida, who heavily support joe biden, decide they're not -- they're not leaving home to go out and vote. and the younger voters, who are much less at risk, who overwhelmingly support bernie sanders, go out to vote. and they go out to vote in every state. i mean, there's something that could happen in the mix of voters on tuesday that we haven't seen before. >> yeah. i think there's a real wildcard in what this looks like on tuesday. i know a number of these states have early voting. i voted here in -- in illinois on friday morning. but i do think it will be

interesting to see what happens with that vote. whether -- whether people voted early. whether they are doing this by mail, which you can also do here in illinois. and i know the secretaries of state in these four states are going through extraordinary measures to make sure that the ballot locations are safe and accessible to people that are concerned, rightly so, about coronavirus. >> john heilemann has a question. >> hey, david plough, it's john heilemann here let me ask you this. i know on the base of previous conversation we've had, how concerned you are about young voters in general. and when i look at this debate that happened tonight, the question is how do you get bernie sanders' voters, overwhelmingly young, he's so strong with them, how do you get those to support joe biden? is a huge question, i assume you agree, for the general election. do you see joe biden do anything that helped himself tonight in that area? >> well, i would have liked him, during that exchange towards the end to say, listen, it's clear i am not doing well with young voters.

i'm going to, you know, work my heart out to get -- i'm going to ask bernie and his campaign for advice. like, i do think there's ways to say i need your help, which i think would be great. why is this important, by the way? because i better -- you know, i assume, right now, there's going to be a very close election. so in close elections, you want to do everything exceedingly well. everything. you can't screw up anywhere. and so you've got to get the right kind of vote share from young voters and the right kind of turnout. now, we say a great turnout amongst young voters in '18. but to me, it's going to take a lot of work john, and honestly, what bernie sanders does, which i think will be -- say i'm going to campaign as hard as i've ever done anything in my life for joe biden. i think he will do that. i think that helps. but the supporters, online and offline, all have a role to play here. i was just on the road for my book tour and i said hey if you supported joe biden and you know 10 or 12 people who supported

bernie or work for him, invite them over to your home when that's safe and say we want you to be a part of this campaign. but i'm still very concerned about it. to me, this is the one missing ingredient. what keeps us from 270 electoral votes? it would be to fall too short here. >> did joe biden take a step toward the younger vote tonight by announcing he would choose a woman for his vice presidential running mate? >> i don't think there's any doubt that will definitely get young voters excited. i mean, for them to see that and to hear that tonight will be important. i think to john's question, i think some of this is going to have to be rhetorical for -- for joe biden. i think he's going to have to lean on, you know, really talking about things like i said earlier, like climate change in an existential crisis. in language that makes those younger voters not here patience and moderation. but hear vibrancy and a willingness to act quickly on

things that are very important to them. and i think he can do that. i think he's just got to make a little bit of a turn. i think part of it, too, is this whole race has been conducted as if he's a quote/unquote moderate. everything he's proposing is well to the left of what we've been talking about for four years ago. >> david plough, robert gibbs, thank you both very much for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. and when we come back, the rest of our distinguished panel will join us with their last word about tonight's presidential debate. site and you'll experiene a whole new range of emotions like... the relaxing feeling of knowing you're getting the best price. these'll work. the utter delight of free wi-fi... . oh man this is the best part. isn't that you? yeah. and the magic power of unlocking your room with your phone. i can read minds too. really? book at hilton.com. if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% off that stay. expect better. expect hilton.

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we are a nation of immigrants. our future rests upon the latino community being fully integrated. 24 out of every 100 children in school today from kindergarten through high school is a latino, right now, today, the idea that any american thinks it doesn't pay for us to significantly invest in their future is absolutely a bizarre notion, because if we do not invest, everything that the very wealthy are concerned about and the zene phobes are concerned about, will in fact get worse, not better. >> our panel is back with us, for their last words on tonight's debate, john, maria, and we're tracing the very first televised debate in history, in 1960, between john f. kennedy and richard nixon, it was just two guys alone in the studio with no audience whatsoever. and just a couple of people on

the cameras. and here we, are back to it. it only took 60 years to get back to the original forum. how did that work, in relation to all of the other debates we've seen this year? >> well, i have been fortunate to see most of them in live, in person, for the last couple of years, and the fact that you took out the audience participation i think actually focused the candidates. there was no oohs and aahs from the audience, no concern whether or not someone was going to disrupt, the last debate in vegas, was visibly cringe worthy and this allowed both biden of and bernie to shine. i think the challenge with biden, he needs to bring latinos, he needs to bring young people together and he needs bernie to basically make sure that he does that, and he didn't quite do that tonight but perhaps the vice presidential candidate that he chooses will help him close that gap. >> how did it look to you, eddie, getting rid of the audience, just in the tv studio 1960s style? >> i think we have the

performative dimensions of the debate out of view and appeal to the audience in a direct way and it allowed for more substantive issues to come to the for. at the end of the day, two things had to happen, bernie had the, joe bide-the whole serve and bernie sanders had to convince voters he was a risk worth taking. i think joe biden held his serve, i don't think bernie sanders convinced many other folks that he was a risk worth taking. at the end of the day, when you compare the two quickly, it seems to me that what bernie sanders was trying to force joe biden to see is the scale of the problem and he has to in some way be able to respond to the scale of the problem. and i don't know if joe biden is there yet. so we have to see this happen, as we continue to move towards the final election. >> jolina, there was talk by some people who think the race was over. i remember last week, saying should they even both ther with this datebate?

should they have it? and it seemed like an illuminating debate and it seemed like for the first hour with both talking about coronavirus, something that was good for the country to hear, serious people of government, talking about serious government approaches in this situation. >> it is like night and day from the earlier news conference, and press conference we saw from the president, and the coronavirus team. and i think in this particular moment to eddie's point, i think it is true that people want practical solutions to the current problems, and they do understand that some of it is structural, but when you're in the middle of the crisis you need practical solutions that somebody can show me are going to be effective in this moment. and not ten years down the road, five years down the road, or tell me the big picture, intellectual reason why we need medicare for all, even though i agree with that in principle. additionally one of the things that i think joe bidedon well and bernie sanders, again, it was a bit of a missed opportunity, he is very good,

bernie sanders is, at articulating what the problems are. that's his absolute superpower. not so good at articulating what the solutions are in detail. and the details actually matter. very much to the voters that he hasn't been able to attract. but they also matter in a crisis moment. and so i think that going forward, while the delegate math may be very much in joe biden's favor, i think at this moment, he would do well by listening, to bernie sanders and his supporters in terms of messages that resonate the most with the base of the democratic party. that will be the smart approach going forward. and we'll see how tomorrow goes. and all of the, or excuse me, how tuesday goes, and all of the delegate map and how that shakes out. but again, ways there in 2016 where bernie sanders wasn't mathematically capable of matching and beating hillary clinton, and he stayed in until june. so i hope that's not the case this time. >> one thing we don't have in the highlights of tonight's debate is the massive cheer that joe biden would have gotten if

they had a studio aud nence when he announced commitment to choosing a woman vice president. and i wonder if that crowd effect would have had any effect on bernie sanders response to that, when the best he could do was say, in all likely hood, likelihood, i would choose a woman. >> it is the big highlight, the big news story about the debate, and the other, to the format, the best debate for joe biden, it suited joe biden and not only suited him, it suited him at this moment for him because he is now, let's make no mistake, he pivoted into the general election, from the moment he gave the coronavirus speech on thursday, he is running a general election campaign and he is trying to deal with bernie sanders and figure out a way to get him out of this race and try to get sanders voters on his

side and i think that will be a harder job, and i sort of saw bernie sanders trying to help joe biden and joe biden not necessarily meeting halfway and i'm not sure the road to unity will be a short road in the party. there is no question right now in this debate, at joe biden's best, and in the announcement effectively, of the parameters for his vice presidential selection, he's now made the move. he has run the general election campaign. that's what it is going to look like increasingly i think going forward, joe biden focusing donald trump. >> thank you all for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. up next, on assignment, with richard engel, on the coronavirus pandemic. your mission:

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breaking tonight, a newly-identified deadly virus from china, which has killed at least two people, and sickened dozens more. >> the cdc says it is a variation of coronavirus, a family that includes the common cold, and sars. >> the virus can spread from person-to-person, raising broader fears of a pan demmic. >> people are taking any precaution they can to keep safe. >> this morning the chinese