a top-down, federally led response to the coronavirus crisis in the united states, that hasn't happen happened. that's not been the way we have confronted this as a country although the president did today finally at least speak about the crisis in a tone that suggested he has figured out that maybe this is something serious, and that's an advance. the bulk of the nation's response, though, to try to slow and contain and cope with the pandemic has thus far been led by state and local officials, even by businesses in the absence of clear federal guidance. and you can look at that as a sort of, you know, plucky,

bottom-up, grassroots american story about our can-do spirit and our entrepreneurial nature, but in practical terms, it's a failure, and it means that despite individual acts of heroism and intelligence and farsightedness and well informed decision-making here and there, despite good examples, again, here and there that you can point out in terms of how this has worked out well, overall what it means is that the u.s. response to this pandemic has been patchwork, uneven, internally contradictory, and thus far ineffective. as the number of u.s. cases climbs over 4,000 -- and that is still with only minimal testing nationwide, let alone in known hot spots -- mayors and increasingly governors, it's interesting, are starting to arrive at sort of the same place in terms of what policies they're instituting to try to deal with this.

and that's interesting because that hasn't come from the top down. everybody's freelancing. everybody's leading from the front, trying to figure out what to do on their own terms. it's therefore interesting that states, cities, regions are starting to vaguely coalesce around what we ought to do to try to slow, stop, and attack the virus. so i'll speak in general terms here knowing there will be some places that are falling short of these measures and some places that are being even more aggressive than these. but if you do want to try to generalize about what the american response to coronavirus is now, you do have to look all across the country. you have to look at what all the different states and cities and regions are doing. but where you basically arrive at now on the 16th of march, 2020, is schools by and large being closed. events of significant size by and large being canceled. and initially, you know, state and local officials ordered the cancellation of events with more

than 500 people. then it was more than 250 people. then it was more than 100 people. now we're down at numbers more like 50 people, 25 people, even 10 people in terms of the size of gatherings and events that should be canceled or postponed. broadly speaking we're seeing the closure of indoor spaces of all kinds that combine large numbers of people. so casinos, theaters, clubs. we're seeing widespread closures now of bars and restaurants although in a lot of jurisdictions, restaurants and bars are being allowed to stay open if they transition to only takeout or only delivery rather than allowing people to congregate inside and consume food and drink on-site. and that distinction does sort of toe the line between wholesale shutting down an entire sector of our economy while also trying to protect patrons from being infected as those places of business. you can see how policymakers arrived at that sort of compromise. but it does have a cost.

if you leave restaurants and bars open so that they can't serve people who congregate there on-site but they can prepare food for delivery and takeout, that's better in terms of patrons potentially being infected when they congregate at a restaurant or a bar, but for people who work at restaurants and bars, it also leaves in place the possibility they may be in an unsafe work environment among their leagues, people working in restaurants and bars, preparing food, preparing stuff on-site to be taken out or delivered, those people are working on-site together, with their colleagues, which is a cost in terms of trying to limit the epidemiological curve here. we're also starting to see some state and local officials order the shutdown of what they're calling nonessential businesses or nonessential services, but that term is being defined very widely and quite disparately between different states and locations. i think as we head toward more and more closures, more and more

orders of things being shut down, you will see that definition of what counts as a nonessential service get broader and broader, and you'll see the number and types of businesses that are allowed to stay open get smaller and smaller. and, again, these are just the broad contours of what american officials are starting to order, starting to recommend to try to stop americans from transmitting this virus between us or at least to slow down what appears to be a raging and rapidly expanding outbreak in this country. but there is no federal standard for what states should do and for what cities should do, and there hasn't been from the beginning. and so the american response to this catastrophe lurches along, inching toward some national standard someday of what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. but we really are -- policy-wise and in terms of the way we're dealing with this was a public health matter, we're a blob inching along right now, sort of finding ways forward without

clear direction. i mean there is a clearer view now than there was two or three days ago in terms of what measures were going to be tried in the united states. but it's still ad hoc. today oddly, i'm not sure they meant to roll it out this way, but the white house today released this sort of ad hoc photocopied, microsoft word list of what they're calling the president's coronavirus guidelines for america. it's like a list of ideas attributed to the president. it's like a weird word processing document with a bunch of different kinds of bullet points and asterisks and notes and pieces of advice. things that do seem helpful, but it's not clear if this is now meant to be the national plan and who wrote this in a spare five minutes today. i mean there are from the white house today in this odd document, there are some clear points here, which is a good

thing. quote, if you are an older person, stay home and away from other people. that is clear. quote, if someone in your household has tested positive for coronavirus, keep the entire household home. do not go to work. do not go to school. contact your medical provider. quote, even if you are young or otherwise healthy, you are at risk and your activities can increase the risk for others. it's critical that you do your part to stop the spread of coronavirus. work or engage in schooling from home whenever possible. quote, avoid social gas rings in groups of more than 10 people. this ten-person cutoff was invented for this document and this briefing today after the cdc said yesterday should be 50 people. okay. what counts as federal guidance then? also this. quote, avoid eating or drinking in bars, restaurants, or food courts. use drive-through, pickup or delivery options. avoid discretionary travel,

shopping trips, and social visits. avoid discretionary social visits and shopping trips and travel. quote, practice good hygiene. wash your hands. avoid touching your face. sneeze or cough into a tissue or the inside of your elbow. disinfect frequently used items and surfaces as much as possible. quote, do not visit nursing homes or retirement or long-term care facilities unless you are providing critical assistance at one of those facilities. again, this was a sort of unexpected, oddly formatted, uncredited document distributed in the white house briefing room today. it's not clear if this is meant to guide policy all over the country, and if so, why the guidance in that document was different than, say, what the cdc is recommending officially as of just yesterday. but, you know, this is how we're handling this. everybody's kind of freelancing, deciding on their own what they want to do, including the white house today.

tonight as of midnight pacific time in california, the san francisco bay area, they are moving to what they call a shelter in place order. it's for san francisco city and county, santa clara county, san mateo county, contra costa county, marin county, and alameda county. and in all of those heavily populated counties, everyone as of tonight is being told to shelter in place for the next three weeks. as the mayor of san mateo explained today bluntly, quote, everyone needs to go home and stay home. these six counties in the bay area that are doing this go home and stay home, shelter in place order, those counties -- i know you're thinking six counties. why this little region? those six counties include collectively nearly 7 million people, which means this broad shelter in place, go home, stay home order, which goes into effect tonight -- this affects a population that is larger than like 36 different states in this

country. and this bay area shelter in place order is the first place in the country where they're trying to enforce this kind of blanket quarantine, where everybody is told to go home and stay home, along the lines of what they've done in italy, what they are newly doing in spain, what they are newly doing in france. but just because the bay area is the first place to do that in the united states, they're not likely to be the last place to do that in the united states. the decision to do this in the bay area today was made after the bay area recorded a spike in new cases. there's about 250-plus cases now in the bay area, but more than half of those cases were reported over the last four days alone. so they're seeing a rapid uptick. and as that number of new cases in the bay area starts to shoot upwards, they decided to take that dramatic new approach to try to stop the virus. we are likely to see that pattern in other places in the country, not just because that's

the way exponential growth works for a virus where each person who has it on average is infecting two to three others. it's also because the testing situation in the united states is so terrible that as testing is expanded so late in the game, as testing is finally starting to roll out, you will see a spike in the number of reported cases, which will lead more jurisdictions around the country to find their way towards the type of policy that northern california, these six counties in northern california, have unveiled tonight. but even as the bay area takes those new measures that we're not seeing other places yet, you should not think of california as being the place in the country that is bearing the worst of this virus. the largest number of cases in the united states is now in new york. we saw this coming last week. washington had been out in front in terms of the number of cases in the country. last week we saw new york approach washington in terms of the number of cases, and we saw new york governor andrew cuomo warning at the end of last week that new york would soon surpass

washington and have the most cases in the country. and now they do by a lot. even without very much testing in new york or anywhere in the country. the shape of the epidemiological curve in new york has led to widespread fears that new york is heading rapidly toward an outcome like what we've seen in northern italy, not just in terms of the large number of cases we've seen in italy and the large number of deaths we've seen in italy, but specifically there's fear in new york because of the trajectory of the epidemic here. there is fear in new york that new york health facilities, new york hospitals will soon be overwhelmed, which is what has happened in northern italy, which has been so much of the tragedy and the collapse in northern italy. over the weekend, new york's governor andrew cuomo requested that the federal government take action immediately to try to avert that possibility. he wasn't asking for, you know, vague financial support or some vague new federal leadership or some broad policy thing.

he's specifically asking the federal government, the president, to order the army corps of engineers to start building hospital capacity immediately in the places most at risk of the hospitals being overrun. i'm going to play you this clip of new york governor andrew cuomo. i want you to hear this almost unedited. i want you to hear it at length because not only is i think he making a case that you should hear in terms of what the federal government can do that no other jurisdiction can do, but he's also explaining a key point here about why it is that the u.s. has fewer hospital beds per population than other industrialized countries. why it is that we are almost uniquely vulnerable to our hospitals being overrun, to there being way more people who need hospital beds than can get them and for what that might mean in terms of the face of this tragedy in this country to come. this is worth watching.

>> they have tremendous capacity. this is what they do. this is what they do. they build airports. they build bridges. they build hospitals. this is exactly what they do. deploy the army corps of engineers to come work with states to build temporary medical facilities. get us backup beds so when the hospital is overwhelmed, we can have some of the people who are in the hospital beds go to a backup medical facility. it makes all the sense in the world. and if you don't do it, you know what is going to happen. you're going to overwhelm the hospitals. you only have 53,000 hospital beds. you only have 3,000 icu beds. why? because our health system is basically a private system.

they don't build capacity that they don't need. they don't build extra icu beds just in case. an intensive care bed is very expensive. they don't build a wing of icu beds that sit vacant for ten years on the off chance that there's going to be a public health emergency and you'll need the beds. they don't. it's not economic. it's not their business model. so we don't have them. we have the capacity that people use day in and day out, and that's not just new york. that's every state in the united states. you now have this influx. you can't handle it. you overwhelm the hospitals. you have people on gurneys in hallways. that is what is going to happen now if we do nothing. that is what is going to happen now if we do nothing.

we know what lies ahead. look at the numbers from china, south korea, and italy. you don't have to guess. you just have to project, and you compare those numbers to our hospital capacity, and it's still math at the end of the day. and it doesn't work. the federal government must do this. >> the federal government must do this. after making that urgent case for emergency federal government action, deploy the army corps of engineers to build out more hospital capacity right now, after making that urgent case, new york also announced today that they're going to start looking for facilities that they can transition immediately into supplemental hospital capacity. basically they're looking for places that they can set up temporary facilities or places they can repurpose to become

hospital overflow right now, so that there's someplace to park people when the hospital beds are suddenly full and there are people who are coming in who are in need of urgent care, who are in need of intensive care. who are in need of getting intubated and on ventilators and the rest of it. the urgency of the case that new york is making, what is honestly palpable fear among new york official who's are looking at the numbers in new york state, it almost can't be overstated. i've seen public remarks today from new york officials at a number of different levels. i've also had private conversations with new york officials at a number of different levels. the fear is palpable because they see this coming, and they see it coming in short term, like over a matter of days, not over a matter of weeks. for all of the worrisome comparisons about what is happening in new york to what is happening in italy -- and we have been watching the shape of

those curves. i know that the raw numbers are different here between these two graphs. it is the shape of the epidemiological upswing here which you see mirrored between new york and italy, it is the shape of the curve that is so worrying here. but i should also mention that in italy, today they reported a 13% rise in new cases just since yesterday, and that sounds bad, but that's actually good in context because a 13% rise in new cases in one day, that's the lowest rise in new cases in one day since late last month when the epidemic in italy really started to take off. so 13% rise in new cases in one day is terrible for a disease that kills as many people as this does. but if that's an improvement, if, in fact, italy is slowing the rise in new cases, that is a hopeful sign not only for them but for us because while italy has now settled in to what is a long-running, nationwide lockdown, effectively a nationwide quarantine, if it

turns out that nationwide lockdown, nationwide quarantine is working, if it really is slowing the spread of the epidemic there and if is potentially stopping the expansion of the collapse of the italian health care system, if is stopping the overrunning of more italian hospitals, if they are finally coming around the curve on that, well, then, that's something to build on because that's kind of what we're planning on doing too. that's kind of where we're heading. i mean as of tonight, we've got in our country our first broad-based shelter in place order afrifecting millions of people in the bay area. if that turns out to be effective, that may become the next point on the number line that state and local officials start to coalesce around in our patchwork, off the cuff, catch as catch can, no leadership, here and there american

response. i mean at the core, the american -- if you want one story of the american response, policy is all over the map. but if you want one story about the american response, it remains the fact that testing is still almost impossible to get. and that remains the hallmark of america's disastrous handling of this crisis. this is the director general of w.h.o. today. >> the most effective way to prevent infections and save lives is breaking the chains of transmission. and to do that, you must test and isolate. you cannot fight a fire blindfolded, and we cannot stop this pandemic if we don't know who is infected. we have a simple message for all countries. test, test, test. test every suspected case.

if they test positive, isolate them and find out who they have been in close contact with two days before they developed symptoms and test those people too. >> a simple message for all countries. test, test, test. test every suspected case. if they test positive, isolate them and find out who they've been in close contact with from two days before they developed symptoms. and then go test those people too. and if those people are tested positive, isolate them and then test their contacts too. that's the world health organization, a message for every country. test, test, test. america cannot get that done. i mean even as testing is slowly starting to come online in some places in the united states, we are so far from being able to respond the way the world health organization says every country must. and the way that every country has gotten anywhere near containing this thing has already behaved. we are not testing every suspected case. people who are definitely

suspected cases are havingen incredibly difficult time getting tested. that means we're not isolating everybody who might be positive. that means we're not tracing everyone who each infected person has been in contact with. we're not doing any of it because we can't do the first step of it. and one of the consequences is we haven't built up the capacity or even the expectation of what to do with positive people. we don't have the capacity. we don't have the expectation that we will need to have adequate facilities to isolate everybody who needs to be isolated because we have no idea who they are. no idea how many they are because the lack of coronavirus testing in america even this far into it is the fundamental fiasco at the heart of all of it. thank you, federal government. so we're going to talk about a few things over the course of this hour. we're going to talk with one of the world's leading infectious disease epidemiologists about we might be starting to coalesce around policies that could make a dent.

we're going to talk with somebody who i know you have a great deal of respect for who himself has tested positive for coronavirus and has been ill with it and is recovering. and we're going to talk with a couple of experts who are doing some m very hard thinking and starting to give interesting advice on what it means for the american economy to be locking the doors and going home, which is what is happening all over the country as people try to stop working in their workplaces and instead work alone from their own homes. that's not just a met astory. yes, the stock market dropped 3,000 points today, and, yes, airline industry analysts said the entire airline industry may be out of business by may if they are not wholesale bailed out by the federal government. i mean we are in the middle of what is effectively an economic nuclear blast. but the way those of us on the ground are living it for the most part is that we're being sent home to do our work as best we can, alone, away from all of our colleagues and everybody else in our field. so we're going to talk tonight

about how sustainable that is, how likely that is to evolve over time when we finally settle into the fact that this isn't going to be a snow day. this isn't going to be a long weekend or a week or ten days or some kind of extended spring break. this is going to be a long while. nobody's going to descend from washington to lead us here. it is going to be innovation and resolve and creativity and resilience and incredibly hard work and tons and tons of pain and heartache from all of us. that's going to be our national response. so let's talk about how we're going to do it. we'll be right back. but what i do count on is boost high protein. and now, introducing new boost women... with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you. new, boost women. there's a company that's talked than me: jd power.people 448,134 to be exact.

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s. five days ago, state and local officials in the san francisco area banned all gatherings of 1,000 or more people. that is until three days ago when they banned gatherings of 100 or more people. today they ordered residents of san francisco and five other counties to shelter in place, to stay at home full stop. san francisco is not alone here in terms of coming up with one standard for combating the

spread of coronavirus and then ripping it up and coming up with a new one the next day. as lots of places around the country try to figure out how they're going to respond to this and everybody comes up with their own nuanced response for how they think they need to deal, here's what i want to know. having this patchwork of standards and strategies from place to place and day to day, is it as bad as it seems? it seems bad. but if you think about this like an epidemiologist, do you look at that and think about that as people test-driving stuff that other people now need to start around the country, or do you see it as us stumbling around in the dark? dr. ian lip kin is one of the world's leading infectious disease epidemiologists. thank you so much for being here tonight. >> my pleasure. >> let me ask you first if i've said anything tonight that strikes you as wrong or wrong-headed? >> no. i think you said what needs to be said. the one thing i would emphasize is that there's no reason to

test-drive this in the bay area. it's already been test-driven in china. this is how the outbreak was shut down in hubei province, in wuhan. that was the shelter in place we're talking about here as being novel. it's not novel. as some point, as you've pointed out, we wind up edging toward fewer people sheltering in place, starting with large gatherings, then smaller and smaller. why don't we just go there all at once? if we go there all at once, then we will truncate the time required to actually get out of this mess. >> so if it is a sort -- people should shelter in place, stay home, not get together, what i worry about in a society with almost no testing, are you guaranteeing that people who are positive right now and don't know it are going to infect other family members with whom they're sheltering in place? >> that's part of the price. you have to get them out of the community. there is no other way. what you said earlier about

testing being essential is the point, and that's one of the reasons why in our center we focus on testing. we refer to it as medical intelligence. this is what allows you to make informed decisions. without testing, we don't have informed decisions. now, one of the problems we have with tests is that we may assume that all tests are equivalent, and they're not. some tests give you false negatives. if you get a false negative, that's a big problem because then you have a sense of security and complacency and you'll put people together who shouldn't be together. but you do know that if in fact you move this direction and say, we're going to shelter in place. we're going to isolate people. we're going to prevent the continued spread, then you will indeed flatten that curve that you've shown. and that's exactly what we need to do. now, there's some other things that we can do too. we can begin to look at a variety of medications that look like they might be helpful. for example, there's one drug

that's oral which may in fact be useful as a preventive measure. we know that antibodies that people have when they convalesce can prevent disease. we're not investing enough in tried and true classical sort of methods, repurposing drugs and strategies that have already been shown to work. most of our investment is in things which are sexy and new and patentable. >> patentable. >> right. so we're in the middle of a public health crisis, and we need to start with what works. >> let me ask you to reiterate something i think you've already made clear but i want to underscore it. you believe the kinds of measures that have been announced tonight for six counties in the san francisco bay area should be instituted nationwide. >> yes. >> right away. do you believe that the u.s. is capable of doing that? if that was decided at the federal level, that's what everybody should do, do you think we're capable of doing it? >> well, the president seems to

be capable of doing whatever the president really wants to do, including some things that surprise me sometimes. and i -- you know, he is my president irrespective of our political differences. and this is an opportunity to step up and do the right thing. and he has advisers who tell him things. they're not palatable necessarily, but we are going to go through this pain irrespective of whether or not we do it in one fell swoop or decide to slowly pull off this band-aid. it's going to hurt as you said, but we should do it. >> dr. ian lipkin is the director of the center for infection and immunity. i know you have a lot of work to do yourself. thank you. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. because our way t for us! but not for your clients.

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lives are like in the meantime. general stanley mcchrystal worked for decades for the world's biggest employer, the u.s. department of defense. he was commander of the joint special operations command in the years after 9/11 when the war on terrorism suddenly turned what had been a centralized, top-down organizational effort into something very different. hundreds or thousands of discrete groups, some as small as teams of two or three people flung all over the world while still trying to maintain cohesion and work toward the same strategic aims. general mcchrystal of course went on to be commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan. he's now founder and ceo of the mcchrystal group. the president of the mcchrystal group is former navy s.e.a.l. officer chris fussle, who also happens to be my friend who i have had a lot of conversations with about this since these things started. general mcchrystal and chris fussle join us now. gentlemen, thank you very much for being here. >> thanks for having us, rachel. >> good to see you. >> the reason i wanted to have you two on here tonight is because i feel like a lot of

americans are adjusting to a new normal in which we feel like we're working in a way that doesn't feel very effective. we are just waking up to the fact that it's going to be for a very long time. and in lots and lots of different business environments, we're realizing that this might be the most challenging business environment we've ever worked in as the u.s. economy comes to a collapse. i want to talk to you guys about leadership in that context in business organizations and the work environment, but also how you help people be good at what they're doing through these kinds of changes. >> yeah. maybe i'll throw in some opening comments, rachel, just having been on the ground and the receiving end of this when stan mcchrystal started to put this into practice. we were like any other organization, very big top-down structure with small teams. you met at central headquarters. folks went out into the field and did their jobs and came back and checked in. he had to radically transform that into this incredibly decentralized network. and the same laters between what

forces that, it's very similar. so whether we like it or not, this digital leadership, leaders having to do this, stare into screens for six, seven, eight hours a day and communicate with their people is the new norm. how long it's going to last remains to be seen. but leaders have to start moving quickly to get ahead of this new state of work culture. >> general mcchrystal, you've talked about how the shift to an environment in which you're not working alongside all of your colleagues, you're all in disparate environments, you're all your own separate geographic locations can lead to, immediately, at least in the short term, a loss of effectiveness. i think americans all over the country right now are feeling that as they start to realize that while it's cool to be able to work from your couch, they can't get anything done nearly like they used to before they got sent home. >> i think that's right because we can graph out how our operation works on paper, but in

reality an awful lot of it happens around the coffee pot, the water cooler, in the halls. a lot of the direction we give, a lot of guidance people take, a lot of wisdom you learn from how to do your job comes from interacting with people on the job. all of that human factor has got to be replicated virtually, and it just doesn't come naturally. it's got to be with something that we ended up calling in jsoc digital leadership. it was something we had to learn from the top as chris described. >> chris, one of the things that you have talked about as people are going through this transition is the fact that the type of disparate physical space that we all need to operate in now also actually requires a lot of i.t. backbone. literally we need better internet connections.

we need better technological connections. >> yeah, that's right. i'm sure for leaders out there, your head of i.t. is trying to get on your schedule to walk you through the status. so take time. sit down with those folks. do a survey of what's on hand, what are your digital tools, what are your bandwidth -- state of bandwidth for home systems. do you have secure systems to be able to transfer files? all of these things that we can take for granted, run back to the office and take care of. when that's removed from us, we could be in pretty dire straits pretty quickly. so make sure you're looking at your digital backbone. are you ready to go remote? we didn't have that in place in the service. i mean i didn't have a laptop assigned to me on 9/11. that's how much mcchrystal had to transform this organization, and that took years to get to. business leaders need to get ahead of that question right now. >> chris fussell, general stan

mcchrystal, i really appreciate you both being here tonight. you guys operating in the business space after having been in the military space gives us a unique angle from which to look at these things. thanks for being here tonight. >> thanks, rachel. >> coming up next, we're going to be speaking with somebody who you probably know who has the virus, who has been sick with it, is now recovering, has an amazing tale about how difficult it was to get tested for it. stay with us. that's next.

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president trump's persistent and continuing effort to coerce a foreign country to help him cheat to win an election is a clear and present danger to our free and fair elections and to our national security. >> daniel goldman is a former prosecutor from the southern district of new york. starting in february of last year through just this month, he worked as the top lawyer for democrats on the intelligence committee. he helped author the nearly

300-page house impeachment report on president trump. he was the lead staffer on the impeachment investigation. he was the key lawyer examining and cross-examining witnesses during the impeachment hearings. that's dan goldman. you know dan goldman. that's the reason we all got a pit in our stomach when we learned late last week from dan goldman's twitter feed that he had a fever, a headache, and a negative flu test. he couldn't rule out coronavirus because nobody was giving him a coronavirus test. he kept tweeting his updates in pursuit of a coronavirus test, ultimately deciding that he could drive up to a location in connecticut at 4:45 in the morning to try to get a curbside test quite far from where he lives. we found out over the weekend that that test came back positive. there is good news, though. daniel goldman is going to be okay. he is at home. he's quarantined and resting, and he's well enough to take a little time to talk to us about what he's been through right now. dan goldman, thank you so much for being here. joining us by skype, it's great to see you. >> good to see you, rachel.

thanks for having me. >> tell us how you're feeling and what your odyssey has been like in terms of how sick you've been. >> i'm feeling much better, almost back to normal. it was probably about three days of what felt like pretty bad flu-like symptoms, a fever, a headache, and that is what coronavirus is. it's similar to the flu. and those were the symptoms that i had that obviously in this time take on greater meaning and greater concern. and when my flu test came back negative, it felt like the only thing to do that i needed to do was figure out whether i have -- had coronavirus. unfortunately that was a lot more difficult than i expected. >> you ended up driving in the pre-dawn hours up to a curbside testing facility in connecticut. i mean you went through a whole odyssey to try to get tested any way you could, and ultimately that was the way you found to thread the needle. >> yeah. i mean part of it was i started trying to get a test and felt

like i was just going to continue because it felt like it was important to do. i had very much in the front of my mind president trump's assertion that anyone who wanted a test could get a test. and that was completely not the case with me. i suspect it's completely not the case with very many people, and so i started going public with my efforts to highlight the fact that it is not the case that you can get a test. you played a clip from dr dr. tedros today saying the best way to handle an epidemic or a pandemic is to test, test, test. that's clear. i'm not a doctor, but that seems pretty obvious, and it was very frustrated that i kept getting turned away from everywhere i went in new york. >> dan, i know you've said that your wife has been experiencing symptoms similar to yours. is it true that she also hasn't been able to get a test in new york? >> she was able to get a test because she obviously had known contact with me after i tested

positive. one of the real barriers to my getting a test is that i could not identify a known positive carrier that i came into contact with. >> hmm. >> without that, i didn't meet the criteria to get a test. she obviously met the criteria. she has had similar flu-like symptoms over the weekend, is also getting better although is a few days behind me in her recovery. but both of us are on the other side. you know, i would like just to point out this is -- it's a virus, but it's not an affliction. i don't have a scarlet "cv" across my forehead. it is a very deadly strain of a virus that needs to be addressed and dealt with, and it's very sad that we're at the point now where your earlier guest says that we need to essentially shut down the country for two weeks in order to deal with this. that could have been prevented if we had enough tests from the get-go and we had that opportunity. >> daniel goldman, i'm happy to

see your face. we've all been very worried about you ever since you've been talking about this publicly. i hope that your wife feels better soon, and we look forward to having you here on set when we're on the other side of this. >> thanks very much for having me rachel. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. motor? nope. not motor? it's pronounced "motaur." for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

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even that that pet-camera thingy. [ whines ] can your internet do that? xfinity xfi can because it's... ...simple, easy, awesome. [ barking ] here's some news from earth 2 where the biggest thing going on over there is the presidential race and not the global pandemic. tonight in the democratic

presidential primary, nbc news is projecting that joe biden has won in washington state, where they voted back on march 10th, which is less than a week ago but feels like several lifetimes ago. vice president biden leads senator bernie sanders in washington state by about a point and a half. nbc does project that biden will be the winner there. as a matter of context, it was senator sanders who won washington over hillary clinton in 2016 by about 40-something points. but he's lost it this time to vice president biden. now we have more states that are wrestling with how to hold an election has the coronavirus crisis really brings daily life in many ways to a halt in this country. on friday louisiana was the first state to announce that they postponed their primary election, which is scheduled for next month. then georgia announced the same thing over the weekend. then tonight kentucky announced that they'd delay their contest as well. but amazingly up till today, the elections officials for the four states that are voting tomorrow all said that they would go

ahead more or less as planned. arizona, ohio, florida, and illinois. that has now been through some turbulence over the course of the afternoon and into the evening. polling places in ohio filled up this weekend with long lines of people trying to vote early. upon seeing that, ohio governor mike dewine, who has been aggressive in trying to fight the coronavirus epidemic, announced that he would try to postpone in-person voting tomorrow, to take place instead in june. governor dewine said, quote, we cannot tell people to stay inside but also tell them to go out and vote. the ohio governor said he did not believe there was any way to stay within cdc guidelines for how to deal with the pandemic while also holding in-person voting in ohio tomorrow. now, that said, the governor in ohio doesn't have the power to delay elections on his own. what he did instead was he supported a lawsuit that was filed by some people vulnerable to the virus who had opposed the plan for tomorrow's primary.

well, tonight an ohio judge has rejected the proposal to delay tomorrow's primary despite the sort of urgency with which the governor has made that case. so at least we think right now that ohio's primary election is going to go ahead tomorrow alongside illinois and florida and arizona. that said, tonight arizona's secretary of state has released a statement saying the vote should go ahead in arizona because, quote, the longer we wait, the more difficult and dangerous it could become. tonight democratic party chairman tom perez told chris hayes here on msnbc that there should be an expansion of vote-by-mail options in all of the remaining states wherever practicab practicable. how that would happen, we don't know but as of right now primary elections are a go tomorrow in ohio, we think, florida, arizona, and illinois. at least as best they can. watch this space. a barn. and hay. lots of hay. you need a tractor built to get every job done right.

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us. i do want to tell you that tomorrow night, believe it or not, we are going to have special election coverage starting here at 7:00 p.m. eastern. i'll be hosting alongside brian williams. we'll see how that goes. it seems like hosting alongsiia williams. we'll see how that goes. we'll be here from 7:00 eastern tomorrow night covering those four primaries in florida, ohio, illinois and arizona including the interesting question as to whether or not those primaries will actually happen. now it's time for the "last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> rachel, they're going to happen. we know that. we just don't know what will happen with turn out. we don't know what parts of the electorate might be less likely to turn out. >> did you see thastatement that came out from the ohio governor and secretary of state within the last few minutes? it's a question. dewine wants it not to happen, calls for it not to happen, joins a lawsuit for it n