hey, everyone. -- guys? okay. that's a lot of noise here. it's 4:00 in new york. i'm in for nicolle wallace. at a moment when there are flashing red warning signals about the impending crisis about to crash down on the nation's health care system due to the coronavirus which as of this afternoon has infected nearly 11,000 americans and killed more than 160, states, city and health care workers crying out for leadership from donald trump and getting precious little in response. with the health care workers on the front lines appealing directly to the president and the federal government as they face the reality that in a matter of days hospitals across the country will begin running out of equipment, doctors and nurses need to protect themselves, not to mention the urgent need of ventilators. less than 24 hours after trump

declared himself a war time president, he was asked why he hadn't followed through on one of the steps that he announced yesterday. >> enabled i guess is probably the best way to put it the defense production act but you didn't pull the trigger on it. >> no, because we hope we're not going to need that. >> you're getting calls from the democratic leadership to pull the trigger. what's the rationale or not doing it? >> first of all, governors are supposed to be doing a lot of this work and they are doing a lot of this work. the federal government is not supposed to be out there buying vast amounts of items and shipping them. we're not a shipping clerk. >> lincoln, roosevelt, not so much. trump said today that he would back the states in their efforts to procure their own life saving equipment but added he would only pull the trigger, quote, if we need something. it's hard to imagine a more urgent need. the cdc suggesting health care workers use bandanas or scarves

as makeshift masks as a last resort. in the state of new york with the most confirmed cases in the nation, more than 4,000 and counting, governor andrew cuomo says the health care emergency is already inevitable. >> the health care system is going to be overwhelmed. the question is now to what extent and with what consequence, savannah. that's what we're dealing with. we have a major problem on equipment, the gloves, the protective equipment and again, the ventilators. in this war ventilators are what the missiles were in world war ii. we have to make those missiles. we have to make those ventilators, get them made. >> war time emergency but in the just the last hour president trump held a tele conference with governors offering no further specifics on efforts to produce the so-called missiles governor cuomo and others say they desperately need. joining us now, maya wiley, "new

york times" political reporter nick comp asory. dr. frank esper and yamiche el sin dor, white house correspondent. yamic yamiche, it's a busy day down there. give me your sense of how donald trump is rising to the bar that he set for himself yesterday when he declared himself a war time president. >> the president is continuing to use that language saying that he feels like he's a war time president and said he rates himself a ten out of ten in how he responded to this. it's clear and doctors and nurses around the country are getting worried as medical supplies are starting to run out. you see just today there was an nbc news story showing that hospitals and medical professionals are asking congress to give them hundreds of billions of dollars for specific medical equipment. then you have the president saying we're not a shipping company.

so the president has been clear with governors. had esaid we're not a first resort. white house sources tell me that's meant to say states need to take care of themselves and the white house is going to do what it can do. it's clear that the white house doesn't have answers to two key questions. the first is when will people who node coronavirus tests actually be able to take them all over this country. there was no clear answer from the white house today. the second one is are there enough ventilators and is the white house going to be able to order enough in time for what we know will be a crush on the medical system. the answer there was there are thousands of ventilators being ordered but the white house is not saying specifically how many they will be shipping out and whether or not there's a reserve for each american and that is scary. >> dr. esper, i want to ask what you think you're hearing right now from donald trump. we're obviously hearing these calls, alarm bells being rung in all quarters right now and the president is answering them. i'm curious about what you think about the state of play out there on the front lines and

whether what the president is saying he plans to do, the leadership that he's giving to states, cities, private sector, the medical sector, all the above, whether it's adequate to the moment as we now get into thursday here in this week. >> this has been a long time that we've been preparing and this is something that we've known about for months. even though it was only numbers in china for the longest time, we here, especially here at cleveland clinic and all around the state have been preparing for the concern that this could happen and it can overwhelm. so we have been meeting here at the cleveland clinic twice a day in the command center, making sure that all our preparations are met and everything is being done as best we can. one of the best things we have been able to do, certainly we have been able to work with the governor, with the ohio department of health and they have been helping us tremendously. certainly there's a lot of things that have to happen at the federal level. just because there's a lot of cases in new york, that doesn't

mean it's not going to be ohio's problem if we start seeing spillover. so there is a national response that has to happen, but definitely the boots on the ground right now, we are working extremely hard to prepare for these waves of infection and trying to work with all our partners in order to stem that tide to make sure that we flatten how many people show up at our doors sick at once. that's why we're doing all the social distancing and doing all the communication to make sure everybody knows what to do. >> doctor, i appreciate your confidence and can-do attitude. i just keep listening to the governors and the people on the health care front lines saying there's going to be shortages. there are already shortages. people are talking about making protective gear out of bandanas and scarves. paint a picture of what it's going to look like when this wave crashes down. obviously it's not going to crash down with the same force everywhere in the country but it seems like there are plenty of places where it is going to crash down and there are going to be shortages.

what are the implications of that for the fight against this -- the fight to treat this pandemic when it starts to hit in the places that it hits hardest? >> we certainly know there's going to be a lot of people and there's going to be a lot of people that are going to get sick. what we're also trying to do is we're trying to prevent sickness from coming to the health care provider because if we get sick, then there may not be enough people to treat the individuals who are coming in sick. so we all know that we're in this boat together. in a crisis situation, in a pandemic, all options are on the table. certainly we know we're looking for n 95 masks and while the recommendations are so that we don't need as many machks but we could use surgical masks but if we can't, you do whatever you can in order to protect yourself and your patients. we are using every option, everything that is available to us.

again, hospitals understand this and we are taking in suggestions and ideas from everywhere, from the nursing staff to the respiratory technician to the guard at the parking garage. everybody is giving us ideas and we are taking each and every one. i can't say that it's going to be pretty. it's not going to be pretty. this is a pandemic. this is a crisis. you prepare as best you can. let's be honest, this virus has been throwing us curveballs from the beginning. yeah, we've missed a few times and we just have to get back into that batter's box and hit it some more. >> maya wiley, i want to ask you, you've been a long-time player in this community here in new york and you've seen governor cuomo, mayor de blasio react in a lot of different situations to difficult times. given the alarm that we've heard from the governor in particular all week long, talk a little bit about -- kind of assess the state of your state and your city right now and whether you

think that it's possible for local government for the city government and state government to be able to step in when they're not getting apparently when the governor has been begging for, not getting from the federal government what they seem to need. >> one thing that's important to know about both new york state and new york city is that we have a tremendous number of public servants including the governor himself and the mayor himself, who have actually been through this before. we had the ebola crisis in 2014 and i was working for city hall when we had that crisis. whether it's the state or the city, there is a level of leadership that has been planning for this kind of emergency. i think the issue is and what we've seen from the governor who's raised some red flags around the possibility that the trump administration is still playing partisanship at a time when we shouldn't be seeing either red or blue in terms of withholding some financial

assistance that new york had in the form of a competitive grant for hospitals. he has asked for more ventilators and he's right to because we know we don't have enough when we have the most cases in the country. one of the things that mayor bill de blasio did is he asked weeks before we got into the situation right now, our 11 public hospitals, we have a tremendous number of residents who rely on public hospitals. they don't have private insurance. many of them may not have health insurance through their jobs even though they work multiple jobs. one of the things that we're seeing is that our public hospitals, we're working on finding 100 icu beds for each hospital weeks before we were in a situation where they would be overrun. this is not a state or a city in which local leaders have not been taking steps to do everything they possibly could. i would say the same thing for washington state and california. trump even praised california and gavin newsom today.

that can't change, that no state or city can handle something of this scale without national leadership. if you want to call this a war and you want to call yourself the commander-in-chief, then you better command and commanding respect means demonstrating that you will do for the people who are the citizens of this country and the residents of these cities. >> nick, i ask you about this, right? we started this week with governor cuomo saying the army corps of engineers need to come here. we're going to be short of hospital beds, icu beds. i need the army corps and need them now. it's thursday. nobody is building those things. the president has talked about trying to help governor cuomo. he talked about the army corps of engineers, signed authorizations, but there's still a las atud about his attitude towards it, the things he said about we're not postal

clerks, just everything feels like the president doesn't see this moment and is saying, okay, this is what's now about to happen. the federal government is going to go student body left and we're going to provide everything that states need. here, all of these private sector institutions, companies around the country that are offering at this point, how can we help? we'll shift our production to ventilators, do whatever is necessary. somebody's got to tell us what needs to be done and how to do it and when to do it and get some financial support for it. none of that seems to be happening right now. talk about how donald trump -- whether donald trump is missing this moment and if he wants to try to live up to what he's trying to portray himself to be which is a war time leader. what would have to happen and how can he start doing that? >> the president is missing an opportunity here to secure his political future and the country's future. that's what makes it so surprising for a man who's so attuned to the politics of everything. he seems almost a bystander to his own white house this this crisis, seems almost to be surprised by things that are

being mentioned at the podium next to him or around him at all times. he's making a comment about how the u.s. government is not a postal clerk. we own the postal system and the u.s. military is probably the greatest and best mover of material and people in the world they're very good at this stuff, moving quickly at doing large jobs. there's a lot of buttons he could be pushing and there does seem to be an absence of urgency. on this very show we have talked about what would happen when this president was confronted by a crisis that was beyond his own making. this is partly his own making but we are now seeing a certain kind of president with a certain skill set confront this moment that is beyond him and it is a bit frightening. >> yamiche, talk a little about the stuff the president said today related to potential treatments that might be brought to bare on the virus. he made some statements today

about having slashed red tape to allow for new trials of those drugs. i'm going to ask the doctor about it in a second but i know there was confusion when the president said some things in a press briefing that then had to be walked back by some other officials at the federal level. talk us through what he said and what then got walked back and what we know to be the case with respect to those potentially promising drug treatments that might be on the horizon. >> the president said that he was eager to get treatment for the coronavirus out to the general public. he said he was going to change the regulations at the fda so there would be a lot of drugs fast tracked. in doing that he mentioned there was already a drug coming out of africa that would already be fast tracked and that people could already take. then the head of the fda actually walked that back and said that drug is actually in clinical trials. those trials of course could take months. this is not something immediately available. that's a big difference. we've seen the president do this

over and over again where he's eager to say this is what i'm doing when in fact that's not what's happening. it goes back to the issue of testing. he said weeks ago anyone who wants a test can get a test. that wasn't true then or now. when it comes to these drugs that the fda is looking at, they have not been approved. there are some senior officials at the fda who are very worried about the fact this these are being fast tracked. they say people could be harmed. of course people could also benefit from these drugs but there's the idea that there could be patients who could get even more sick if they have the virus. >> dr. esper, give us the medical perspective on this question. obviously a lot of people in the country are desperate and are filled with hope at any discussion of any kind of potential treatment for this virus. chloroquine is the drug that we heard a little bit about today. tell us from the medical standpoint what you heard from the podium today and what you now know out there in the field. >> there are several medications. we have several medications that we are trying to see how well it

will work. we have put them into human trials. chloroquine is something we've been using for quite some time. we don't need to know that it's safe. we have decades to know what to look for from a side effects standpoint. what the fda is saying is you can't just say, yeah, chloroquine works for this particular virus because that's only shown in a petri dish and doesn't translate to a human. but we have that medication. we can trial that medication. we're starting to work with this medication to see if it works but we can't come out and say definitely this chloroquine seems to help people. no, it only works well in a lab but we have to see whether or not it actually helps people. there's a lot of other medications out there. remdesivir is the one that a lot of people are waiting to hear about how well it works. that started off in china and we have several sites here in the united states. they're also offering it, the company is offering it for compassionate use if someone is

really sick or is getting worse and you need to do something. we are going to learn a lot about that. in a few weeks we'll probably have some idea of whether or not this is going to be a drug that works against this virus. >> maya, one last thing we saw today which was new york city is weighing turning hotels into hospitals. the local leaders are scrambling to fill the void here. the new york city emergency management commissioner confirming on the record this morning that this is something being considered in the city. this is a resourceful city. talk about that possibility and more broadly about the kinds of improvisational measures and means that might come into play quickly here as new york turns into, for the second time in 20 years, a kind of ground zero. >> i think what you're hearing and seeing is looking for every possible space that can be

turned into the ability, the facility to take care of our people. that means a couple of things. one, if we can find ways to get people who are sick and need hospital attention but don't need to be in the icu spraeftd and out so we have more icu beds quickly, that's a good thing. we have to figure out more spaces and there have been all kinds of fascinating conversations and identification of space including possibly dorm rooms at nyu or other campuses, armories, any other facilities that we can pull and bring to behr on creating more hospital space and beds. i think the issue here is not the resourcefulness of new york city. it's the limits of any municipality and of any state to be able to supply all its needs when you get such a vast number potentially of people who need care. just to make one thing clear about this notion of possible vaccine or drugs or treatments,

critically important that we're fast pacing that. hhs, the u.s. department of health and human services, itself in a report said we're looking at 18 months. so if you're in a city of 8.7 million people, many of whom, 47%, struggle to make ends meet, all those folks, there are a large number of people with risk factors and we have to figure out how to take care of them. when you have one of the highest homelessness populations in the country, we literally have to think about how our shelter systems are actually preventing the spread of virus and it's not waiting for a vaccine or treatment. it's preventing more cases. we can't have the federal government distract any of us from the need to protect against future infection. that's why the swabs are important that we don't have enough of. that's why the face masks are important. when people get sick, yes, the city will do as much as it can to get hospital beds.

>> all right, thank you all for spending some time with us. when we come back, donald trump says that no one saw it coming. really? i will talk with former homeland security secretary jeh johnson on america's preparedness. plus the number of people who are out of work now and who are going to be out of work across almost every industry across the country is growing by the day. what can the government do about it right now? and, the president aspiring to be churchill ian turns out at every turn to be donald trump. y, you can find yourself heading in a new direction. but when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. a partner who makes sure every step is clear, a former army medic, made of the we maflexibility to handle members like kate. whatever monday has in store and tackle four things at once. so when her car got hit, she didn't worry. she simply filed a claim on her usaa app and said...

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it's very unchartered

territory. could have been stopped, could have been stopped pretty easily if we had known, if everybody had known about it a number of months before people started reading about it. >> you said you -- >> excuse me. before we started reading about it, it could have been stopped in its tracks. unfortunately, they didn't decide to make it public but the whole world is suffering because of it. >> donald trump laying the blame for the virus' spread on everyone else. just as he was making those comments "the new york times" published this story details how his administration performed simulations in times of crisis but there were glaring issues. the "times" specifically mentions one completed this past october. crimson contagion, the exercise conducted last year in washington and 12 states including new york and illinois showed that federal agencies under mr. trump continued the obama era effort to think ahead about a pandemic but the planning and thinking happened many layers down in the bureaucracy. with a knowledge and sense of

urgency appeared never to have gotten sufficient attention leaving the nation with funding short falls, equipment shortages and disorganizations among various branches of government. joining us, jeh johnson. mr. secretary, good to see you today. >> good to see you. >> you read this "new york times" story. >> i certainly know of it. i know the substance of it. >> talk a little about the basic claim of the president that no one could have seen this coming, no one could have been prepared. >> friday, january 13th, 2017, extraordinary meeting of the outgoing cabinet and the incoming cabinet of the trump administration. i was there. one of the things we discussed, one of the things we table top exercised ways lethal pandemic. in any discussion of really bad things that can happen in this country, a lethal virus -- and we had that experience with ebola in 2014.

a lethal virus is among the top three on your list. john, right now the goal has to be until there is treatment, until there is a vaccine, the goal has to be social isolation, social distancing just like you and i are doing right now, and good hygiene. a reporter asked the president today at his press briefing, mr. president, do you think that parents should expect to keep their kids home from school for the rest of the school year. the president can't know that at the national level. he can't know the answer to that. the answers may vary depending upon whether you're in boise, idaho or brooklyn, new york. to achieve the goal of social isolation best has to be managed at the community level, city level, state level which is what we're doing, though new york city, it's alarming now the number of reported cases in new york city is approaching somewhere between 30 and 40% of the nationwide total despite the best efforts of our mayor and

our governor here. at the national level the president of course occupies the bully pulpit. he is the most visible spokesperson for any government in this country and sets the tone, but the federal government's role in a circumstance like this is to make sure that local communities, states, cities have the resources they need to combat this virus and to make sure everyone does what they're supposed to do in this circumstance. he says he's not the shipping clerk. well, actually the federal government kind of is. he is the shipping clerk in chief to make sure that governors, mayors have the resources they need, the hospital beds, the masks, the ventilators, the test kits that they need to combat this. >> the federal government is though -- has the capacity to be powerful in a variety of ways. we obviously have a complicated governmental system here. we have state government, local government. as you point out, different responsibilities and different

layers but the president is asserting this notion that he's a war time president. we know what happens when presidents have in the past averted t asserted the powers of the war time president. we saw that in world war ii. the president wants that metaphor but seems not to be seizing the reins of government that many are crying out for. look at this list. we have a graphic of people on the private sector stepping in to try to help. "the washington post" talking about people have to eat. the famous chef stepping up to build community kitchens. distillery in duluth, minnesota using its alcohol to make hand sanitizer. tesla's elon musk says we're ready to make ventilators. tell us how many to make and give us some direction. g.m. and ford are in talks about making ventilators. there's an incredible private sector economy here and many of the leaders are standing up and

saying how can we help. at least from what we can see, it does not seem as though president trump and the federal government are saying let's go forward and do this together and do it fast. >> it's the role of the federal government in a circumstance like this particularly when there are a lot of people in the private sector who want to help to coordinate those resources, to cut the red tape, to make sure that these resources get to the community where they are needed most. this president is drawn to these very muscular terms like war time president or defense production act. the question i always ask when i hear terminology like that is for what purpose? what will it achieve? defense production act is for things like the national defense to be produced in the private sector. he hasn't triggered that authority yet but it's one that

we may or may not have to use. again, the role has to be to make sure that those on the front lines have the resources that they need. i think the federal government at the national level is finally arriving at that realization, but that's the central role right now. >> do you think that -- >> at least it has to be. >> you're a new yorker too, right? >> yes. >> you've been here for many years. >> yes. 62 years. this is the emptiest i've ever seen these streets and the subways. >> given the fact as you pointed out to me that this feels like new york is once again ground zero, the most cases of the coronavirus. looking around here, you mentioned de blasio and you mentioned cuomo. do you feel as though the city is prepared for what's about to hit it? >> no one can be fully prepared for what we are facing. i believe that our mayor and our governor have done an exemplary

job of being visible, explaining in very clear terms what is needed. i'd like some additional clarification on whether or not we are going to a mandated shelter in place. i think frankly, you look at the streets, you look at 6th avenue, we're 90% there already and you have to wonder whether the complexity involved in the implementation and enforcement of such a thing is worth the extra 5 or 10%. you pointed out that many people are just leaving town. the goal is social isolation and how best to achieve that community by community. >> i'm raising this with you because it's something i've been asked 100 times in the last 24 hours which is where is anthony fauci? there was an enormous degree of public -- if public confidence and a sense of calm and confidence are important in

moments like this, it has been reassuring to a lot of americans to look up and see whatever their feelings are about donald trump, to see anthony fauci up there alongside him day after day. the president the other day said tony's becoming a tv star. we know what happens when there's another tv star in the room with donald trump. that person often disappears. he doesn't like the idea of there being two stars on the stage when there's room for one, that's him. the moment after he mentioned it, fauci was no longer there. it became such an issue that today the vice president's press secretary put out a tweet today because there was so much question saying dr. fauci participated in today's meeting. he has a full media schedule today and it goes on to list the places that he appeared and says he will be back at the press briefing tomorrow. i ask you what you think it says about the state of affairs that the absence of one member of donald trump's team causes so much public concern that the office of the vice president feels compelled to address it.

>> let me tell you about tony fauci. i in the prior administration worked with him during the ebola crisis in 2014. at the same time he was in the situation room advising the presidential, he would also then go and personally treat ebola patients. i think he's around 79 years old. he's been doing this for decades. in my view, he is the most trusted voice in the national government right now on this topic. i can only speak to the prior administration. barack obama was never afraid to have multiple big fish in his pond as long as the job was getting done, as long as the federal government was doing what it needed to do, whether it was tony fauci, craig fugate or anybody else. craig is the other disaster specialist in chief. he was the fema administrator when i was secretary of homeland security. i think he's probably sorely missed right now in terms of

resources and getting them to the communities where they're needed. i hope this administration will continue to rely upon dr. fauci and his expertise and experience. >> i think we all look forward to seeing him back on the podium tomorrow. it does make me ask you, if tony fauci does disappear, will that worry you? >> yes. very much so. even more than i am now. >> okay. that's disconcerting but also if he's back tomorrow we'll be able to exhale a sigh of relief. jeh johnson, thank you for spending this time with us and illuminating us as you just did. with unemployment climbing the pressure is on congress to do something more. the state of capitol hill when we come back. the state of capitol hill when we ce omback no matter what i wore, i worried someone might see my bladder leak underwear. so, i switched. to always discreet boutique. its shape-hugging threads smooth out the back. so it fits better than depend. and no one notices. always discreet.

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potat♪ pay them to. ♪ the department of labor today reported 281,000 people applied for benefits last week, a 33% increase from the week prior. that number does not include the scores of people who were let go this week. "the washington post" reports, quote, the surge is straining state unemployment offices that deliver benefits to the poor and jobless so they can buy food and pay rent. on monday so many people tried to file for unemployment insurance in new york that those websites crashed. so the pressure is on for lawmakers to assemble that

trillion dollar economic relief measure we've been promised. the senate in session until legislation is done and they'll send it to the house. the president was asked about the potential for record setting job losses and whether or not this government is prepared. >> worst case scenario you would have terrible job numbers. if we can get this thing wrapped up and finished earlier, things will go very nicely. one of the things they're working, as you know, one of the elements that is being worked on very much so on the hill is to keep the jobs going so that when we do get rid of the virus, we're going to be able to go like a rocket. i think the economy is going to be fantastic. >> let us bring in "washington post" national political reporter robert costa and republican strategist and former campaign adviser to the bush, romney and mccain campaigns, mike murphy. robert, let's start with you. we got this bill pasted

yesterd yesterday. it was the second of three parts of federal relief. the third is coming down the pike. mcconnell is going to keep everyone in session until it's done. what kind of time frame are people expecting, how long before we get that third and largest piece of aid passed into law? >> two parts to watch. number one, the direct payments to americans, they're negotiating right now at the capitol about what the cap would be, who would get the payments. would it be people who make up to $75,000, that's more in the republican range, in the $95,000 and higher range, that's more the democratic target. you have this debate and negotiation moving from speaker pelosi and treasury secretary mnuchin, leader mcconnell and senator schumer as they trying to haggle what this will look like. a curveball came late today from mark meadows, the white house chief of staff, who's in the president's ear urging him not

to break totally from the conservative line when it comes to direct payments. meadows' role could become important and troubling if he raises questions. number two real quickly, you have to look at what kind of conditions are set for bailouts for industries. if the president seems to be open to conditions, what are those conditions for federal dollars when it comes to stock b buybacks. that's something to watch and is not yet determined. >> i want to talk about two players here, one player donald trump, one player mitch mcconnell. since costa put meadows and trump on the table we'll stick with that. i'm going to read to you a piece that bob costa and phil rucker did about trump's trillion dollar stimulus being a gamble for re-election and a sea change for republicans once opposed to bailouts. since trump doesn't give an expletive about how it affects the federal debt, to be frank,

quote, it's all about the markets and the economy for him. it's all about the jobs numbers. mike, you're not a fan of donald trump's but comment a little bit about the relationship between donald trump and this particular piece of legislation, his political fortunes and whatever it is that constitutes his view about fiscal policy, i'm not sure what that view is other than whatever works for me and gets me re-elected is what i believe in. >> i think the president has one policy in every area which is me, me, me. he's seeing the dow collapse, seeing the economic numbers. you mentioned the unemployment surge and request for benefits. this is pretty simple for donald trump. spend it. it's the universal rule of politics. i've never met a politician who doesn't want to get a vote, particularly when they need it. even though we've run up a trillion dollar deficit, exceeding obama's record setting numbers before this, we do need the fiscal stimulus and the economy. the economy runs on cash flow

and liquidity. we've blown the monetary tools out with free interest rates. we've already kind of done that. hasn't had an impact so now people are going to hurt. there are going to be short-term cash flow problems, particularly in small businesses. you don't want a banking crisis where people in large companies aren't making loan payments so cash is needed and i think you will see this thing race through. i think the whole fiscal deficit policy part of it, one, has never been and now that trump's own political jeopardy is involved is not on his radar screen, doesn't think that way. >> robert, i want to ask you about this kind of large question. there is a large question here. i think even in these very extreme circumstances there are still a handful of republicans who voted against the bill yesterday on grounds of principle or something they think of as principle. this question of bailouts for respective industries, the question of stimulus by another name, all of these matters, this is a party that has been in every other instance in the past

including in cases with large emergencies including the 2008 financial crisis where a lot of republicans were against any kind of federal action, all of a sudden they seem to not have those problems. let's listen to mitch mcconnell when he addressed some of these questions on the hill. >> let's be clear about something. from small businesses to key sectors, we're not talking about so-called bailouts for firms that made reckless decisions. nobody is alleging a moral hazard here. none of these firms, not corner stores, not pizza parlors, not airlines brought this on themselves. we're not talking about a taxpayer funded cushion for companies that made mistakes. we're talking about loans which must be repaid. >> robert, is that mitch mcconnell basically joined at

the hip with donald trump at this point and that is what we're going to be seeing over the course of the days and weeks ahead? >> in my conversations with lawmakers it's evident that the devil will be in the details, that leader mcconnell and other republicans and some democrats if they support this package, this economic rescue plan, it will be a trillion dollars and whether it's payments to americans or payments to businesses or loans, who gets the money will be something that will be highly scrutinized by not only the press but by congressional investigators in the weeks and months to come. whether boeing or other major corporations or certain health care companies or drug companies or hotel companies and firms get benefits or get federal large es, it's going to be a question of who was lobbying the government at this time, was it fair, did small businesses get enough. that's on everybody's mind at the capitol about where exactly

will this money go. promises are being made. not a lot of details are clear. >> thank you for taking the time today. after the break, in the midst of this global pandemic, the commander-in-chief is still finding time to attack the free press. e press. ♪ if you have moderate to severe psoriasis... or psoriatic arthritis, little things, can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream... ...it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable...

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outlet suggested, quote, that major media players were acting as state media for the chinese government by taking issue with the phrase chinese virus. that prompted trump to, you know, attack the media. the med. >> i mean, they are siding -- they are siding with china. they are doing things that they shouldn't be doing, they're siding with many others. china's the least of it. so why -- why they're doing this, you'll have to ask them. but if we had an honest media in this country, our country would be an even greater place. >> mike murphy and maya wiley are back. maya, so trump this week is like a wartime president. we talked about at the beginning of the show about the substantiative failures if you were going to be a wartime president, you've got to act like a wartime president, but at least until today, he was at least trying to get the tone a little bit more sober, not to be off in la-la land.

today, he's back to being trump again. a news outlet tosses him a question and he turns that into a attack against the free press. what to make of this? >> what to make of this, donald trump is the distracter in chief. and at a time of pandemic, what we need most is leadership that tells us how to stay safe. leadership that gives us the information we need to marshal our community, marshal our resources, essentially doing what he did to get elected and what he did all throughout his presidency. he finds innocent people to blame and tells the american public not to believe the people responsible for bringing as unbiased and neutral information as possible. and granted, we all have opinions. we all share opinions. i have opinions and you have opinions. we usually make it clear,

though, when we're saying opinion versus fact. what one of the things that presidents usually rely on in a time of crisis is news media to amplify the facts and information. donald trump just told americans not to listen to it, which is why we see over a third of the country not believing that they should shelter in place, not believing that there's an actual health crisis that means they have to behave differently to keep us all safe. >> mike murphy, the president basically is trying to convince us all that he's winston churchill or franklin roosevelt or abraham lincoln. and as soon as he starts to take any steps in ostensibly in that direction, at least he's reading the scripts, reading the cue cards that he's been handed that are supposed to make him sound more sobered and more tethered to reality. the first chance he gets to start sounding like brent bozell or sean hannity or tucker carlson, he takes that opportunity and runs with it. seems kind of self-defeating if

the goal here was try to make us think of him as a kind of above-it-all, unifying, wartime president. >> yeah, you know, it's the fundamental problem of donald trump. he doesn't have the discipline to stay on a smart plan for more than a few hours. like a toddler, something will stimulate him, a tv news story or an idiotic question from some clown from a pseudo news network and he'll spout off because he can't control his own prejudices and his own problems. so what this tells the american people in a time of crisis, it tells them what they already know, is that he's incompetent and unfit, but they have to know what almost everybody in the white house knows and at the top level of the american government, which is, they're all trying to work around the president, because he's incapable of being the president. you're seeing the governors step up. you're seeing mayors, because this vacuum has to be filled at a moment like this, and it will be. so it's unfortunate, but none of these antics are surprising. it's who he is and all of his

flaws. >> mike, do you think there's any chance in this moment that trump can now avoid the fate of this -- of this election, this re-election, turning into essentially a referendum on his leadership? is there any way for him to talk himself out of that and do what he want to do. >> i think it's really, really hard. if donald trump were sane and an adroit politician, a moment of crisis like this is actually a gift, because he can shine. but trump is incapable of that. he'll surrender to his biases and instincts and ridiculousness. so that glues the question of the president's re-elect to him and his performance. i don't think he's political competent or adroit enough to change the subject during a moment like this. if we didn't have the novel coronavirus, he might be able to maneuver around and do his normal trump trickery. i think everything has changed in an important way politically, quickly. all the other trump antics have been a washington side show with

reality show name calling. now people are dealing with real change-your-life, what-the-hell happened problems. and the trump side show ridiculousness doesn't work that well when the stakes are very high in the individual lives of americans. >> maya, that strikes me as right. we talked for three and a half years about what would happen when the actual moment came, where the president was confronted with a crisis, having lied for so long, having squandered so much credibility. it seems like, i mean, clearly the moment of crisis is here. and i think -- well, i ask you, how do you judge -- you were a pretty consistent critic of the president. but at that moment, do you think -- is he doing anything that you think is adequate to this moment? >> i think there are people in government and federal government that are doing things that live up to the moment we're in. and i'm thankful for them. it is not the president of the united states. and one of the things that we should remember is he not only

made sure to remove people who are competent for the positions they were in, he's also removed resources that enabled government to function effectively. one last point we shouldn't miss about this press conference, hate crimes are on the rise against americans because of the things he says and that includes people of chinese descent. that includes people of vietnamese descent. that includes way too many americans and he is driving the wedge. >> maya wiley, thank you for that, super important. mike murphy, super important to talk to you, too. we'll be right back after this last little quick break. 'll be s last little quick break. riatic . when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. it can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb;

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tonight, lester holt with a live prime-time special report on the coronavirus pandemic. all the analysis and health advice from the experts. watch tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc, nbc, or our streaming service, nbc news now. that does it for this hour. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts right now. ♪ welcome to thursday. it is "meet the press daily." good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the u.s. has now begun to rise rapidly. it's basically doubling every two to three days in this country. cases now top 10,000. at least two members of congress have confirmed cases. new york state, this morning, announced a spike of more than 1,700 cases in a singl