tv Velshi MSNBC March 22, 2020 6:00am-7:00am PDT
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welcome back. i'm ali velshi. there are now more than 24,000 confirmed cases of covid-19 in the united states and at least 297 deaths. those figures continue to increase, literally, by the minute. worldwide, there are now more than 300,000 confirmed cases. italy is now the epicenter with nearly 5,000 people dead. yesterday, it was announced that 793 people died in a 24-hour period. congressional leaders are set to meet again later this morning to continue negotiating a massive stimulus package that could cost
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more than $2 trillion, although it remains unclear how much will be allocated to hospitals, medical equipment, and supplies and tests, which are all running critically low around the country. joining me now is amanda pom pomenchan. her husband and one of her daughters have covid-19. while her daughter isn't showing symptoms, her husband is hospitalized, in stable condition, and currently on a ventilator. amanda, thank you for joining us. with that kind of situation around you, this has got to be one of the most stressful things in the world. the idea that you're coming to join me on it hatv is remarkabl. tell me how you're doing. how is your family doing and how are you doing? >> the last few days have been really good. it's kind of given us a newfound hope. we're doing okay. we've been quarantined for 11 days now since he was first admitted to the hospital and
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we're doing okay. >> talk to me about your husband's situation. he has the medical care he needs and he's got a ventilator. we are talking about a shortage of ventilators in this country, but he's got what he needs? >> yes, we were very fortunate, he kind of got sick on the early end of all of this. he got a ventilator within 24 hours of being in the hospital, as soon as he needed it, but it happened to be quickly after he was admitted. and he started ecmo, which is external lung bypass machine, on wednesday of this week, as well. >> he is stable right now. what does that mean? >> they are beginning -- he's responded really well to the variety of treatments that he's getting, so they have been able to slowly come down on the oxygen he's getting through the ecmo machine, and the hope is that if that does well today, then they will be able to take him off of that and he will just be on the ventilator, hopefully
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starting tomorrow, and then within a few days, hopefully get him off of that. if things continue trending in the direction they're going right now. >> your whole family has been tested. i assume you've been tested as well -- >> no. >> one of your daughters has been tested positive. >> only my oldest daughter was tested. we were told when -- when i left him at the er on the 11th that we would not be tested unless we -- unless he was positive and we had symptoms. my oldest daughter, 9, was tested friday evening, a week ago, because she had a slightly evaluated temperature. that was the only symptom she had and we all remain symptom free, but once my husband's positive result came back on sunday of last week, so a week ago, and once my daughter's test came back positive on this past tuesday, they basically just told us we need to self-monitor,
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which we are doing daily through the virginia health department, but that we didn't necessarily need to be tested unless we started having symptoms, which none of us have had. >> amanda, how are you all able to be in touch with each other? are you able to see your husband? are you able to communicate with him? >> no. they brought me in to see him the day he tested positive into the hospital. i got all gowned up and was able to be in the room with him for a little while, which was nice. it was sad, because he's -- he wasn't responsive at the time. they had him very sedated and paralyzed, so he wasn't able to move, but i was able to be with him for about a half hour or so before i met with doctors and came up with a plan. and then we talked to him a couple of times a day. the nurses have been wonderful and will hold the phone up to his ear so we get to talk to him and tell him about our day.
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just in the last day or two, they're seeing fluctuations in his -- in his vitals, when we speak to him, which is really nice to know that he's hearing us. >> that's amazing. amanda, our thoughts are with you. you know, we're talking about this from a policy perspective and, you know, in terms of big numbers and city shutdowns and stuff, but the real story are families like yours across the country that are going through this. thank you for taking some time this morning. our warmest thoughts for your husband and his speedy recovery. amanda phommachanh joining me from virginia. joining me now in washington, d.c. zeke emanuel, a former obama administration health spopolicy adviser, currey with the university of pennsylvania, also a member of joe biden's public health advisory committee, which was set up in response to the covid-19 outbreak. and in baltimore, dr. lina we
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kn know, formerly baltimore's health commissioner. thanks to both you've for joining us. lina, let me just start with you. you heard the story of amanda's husband. i think that's an important piece to keep in mind here. we've had various stories of people who can't get testing, who have not -- you know, not been able get so because of shortage of tests or personal protective equipment in hospitals. then we have stories like amanda's, where her husband is being treated, but while he's stable, he's not out of the woods yet. >> that's right. and there are going to be so many more families that are in amanda's shoes, in the coming days. when we look at the numbers from last week, we were at 3,000 cases in the u.s., and now we're at 24,000. and that number is big, but it's going to seem tiny compared to where we're going to be in a week's time, in a few week's time. and the lack of testing is a serious issue. the fact that amanda's family can't even be tested unless they're showing symptoms just speaks to how limited our
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testing capabilities are in this country. i mean, it's -- i understand that for people who don't have symptoms, it may not change their clinical management, but it definitely changes how they think about their own behavior. it provides reassurance. it gives them a sense of how they're going to go about society. and it's a shame that we don't have enough testing. and now, that there's another complication with testing, too, that it's that health care workers are the limiting factor. if health care workers don't have the protective equipment, they can't then administer the tests. and so we have all of these holes that we're just falling through. and i wish that the federal government would take a much more proactive approach, not just responding to the problems that have already occurred, but anticipating what's ahead and planning for those contingencies, too. >> zeke, you've actually had a lot to say about the way we train medical professionals. and i was talking last night to lieutenant general russel
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honore. he was saying, you know, we're going to have a shortage of medical workers, not just supplies and equipment, but workers themselves, some because hospitals and health care centers have been emptied out of support staff, and others because there will be people not having the protective equipment who may become symptomatic themselves or become infected. russel honore was saying, let's get some of these nurse trainees, these doctor train yeaes out there. some of the people who have come into this country and qualified as doctors in other countries, let's get them into this force of people who are out there, increasing capacity in our health care system. >> there's no doubt we have to increase the capacity and the rate limited factor here, we're all talking about ventilators, hospital beds, and those are definitely going to be in short supply, imminently. but health care workers are going to be in short supply. just take respiratory therapists, the people who manage the ventilators. we have about 75,000 in this country. we can only handle about 100,000
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to 125,000 ventilators, even if we had a big bulge of ventilators to take off the shelf, we wouldn't have the personnel to do it. we can't fully train respiratory therapists, that takes a couple of years, but you can give people who are good skmaand sma and eager to learn at this point, and there are a lot of those people out, unfortunately, unemployed at the moment and i think we'll have to do that. there are a lot of support staff. we'll have to get some of those and reposition. we should not, repeat, we should not have health care workers who are trained doing covid-19 testing and sticking that swab in. that is a misuse of our vital resources. we need to be much, much proactive in focusing people where they need to be. we still have hospitals in this country doing elective surgery. that takes up protective equipment, masks, and all the other stuff. it takes up vital operating rooms that could be used for intensive care beds instead.
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we should not be doing that. we have to really think much more rigorously about where we're using each piece of equipment and each person. and not waste it. i have also advocated, let's graduate this class early, all right? here we are in march, what's the next two months going to do for their education? let's be honest? nothing. let's move everyone along so we can get well-trained, well-educated people out into the field and helping where we need them. >> lina nguyen, talk to me about equipment and tests. the president said on friday that everyone who needs a test can get a test. and when he was challenged by yamiche alcindor, he said, we haven't heard those reports of people not be able to get it. we continue to hear about people who meet the criteria not being able to get these swabs that zeke talks about. there are hospitals saying they are running out of them. we don't have enough personal protective equipment, we don't
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have enough tests. and yet you just heard my conversation with congressman buddy carter, because donald trump says it, people believe it. >> and you're right, ali. we have to look at what's actually happening on the ground. on the front lines is where it really matters. and actually, the only place that it matters. it doesn't matter if the president is saying there are millions of tests that are going out to different locations. if the health care providers and patients are not able to use these tests, because they lack swabs, lack reagents, they don't have the personnel or the protective equipment to administer them, then at the end of the day, what does it matter? and then we talk about the lack of personal protective equipment. i mean, this is just something that shocks me. you know, two months ago, we looked at what was happening in china and we couldn't believe what we were seeing with these pictures of doctors buying rain ponchos and asking people on the internet for help with getting masks. well, we're seeing the same thing happening in the u.s., which is unfathomable that in this country with one of the most advanced health care
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systems in the world, that we have doctors begging on social media for basic equipment. i have colleagues who are making wills, who are trying to decide about whether they should keep on working. i mean, we talk about the workforce, well, our workforce is getting decimated in part because of low morale, because health care workers are just terrified. and we cannot afford to do that in today's society. >> health care workers are our heros right now, as are ploufol officers and emergency technicians. these are the people who we need to count on and we need them safe. dr. leanna wen, thanks again for your continued support. zeke emanuel, thank you for joining us. confronting a crisis with crucial health and economic consequences. president trump has his way of dealing with it. we'll discuss that after this. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪
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this morning, speaker nancy pelosi is set to meet with senate leadership at the capitol, as discussions continue over the coronavirus phase iii financial package, which white house officially now says could cost nearly or maybe even more than $2 trillion. the bipartisan negotiations are said to be closing in on a deal that includes direct cash payments to americans at the center of it. president trump has urged congress to reach an agreement soon to stabilize the economy, but as the number of new
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covid-19 cases rapidly increase, there are reports that the president is starting to feel the pressure of leading the entire country through the first real disaster of his presidency. a crisis he only started to take seriously after the markets began to crash and millions of americans were already at risk. can the president wield the full power of the federal government in a way that unites the country as businesses and jobs hang in the balance? joining me now, diane swong, chief economist for grant thornton and an adviser to the federal reserve. she's back with us. ian bremmer, president of the eurasia group and g-0 media. thanks to both of you for being here. ian, let me start with you. back in 2008, 2009, you, diane and i used to talk, and the one thing that was different then than exists now is that there was a coordinated global response. everybody understood the situation and central banks worked with each other, governments worked with each other. this has a bit more of an every man for himself feel to it.
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>> that's right. i mean, certainly, the central banks are all rowing in the same direction right now, even though it's not coordinated. they're technocratic and oriented towards the same sort of solutions. but outside of that, there's no coordination, we haven't had a g-20 meeting since this all started. of course, the 2008 financial crisis is what actually got the g-20 started. there's a lot of blamesmanship happening right now between the united states and china. that's particularly concerning. the biggest change, of course, is the fact that coming out of 2008, the united states was the clear and uncontested leader, economically, financially, and politically. and even though the chinese are responsible for this initial coronavirus explosion and covering it up, nonetheless, they're much more robust response coming out of that a month later, and the fact that they are ground zero for not just the virus, but also for all of the production of the medical equipment we need globally makes them look like the united
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states' position back in 2008 and they feel a lot more confident than they used to. >> diane swonk, as ian says, the federal reserve has -- and other central banks, have done some work on this front. we don't have a lot -- let me put it this way, the real work, that doesn't make up for the work that congress has to do. at this point, we need a plan from congress and we need leadership from the federal government, both of which have been in sort supply. >> absolutely. and the coordinated effort we need from congress is huge. 10% of gdp, $2.5 trillion, that's not a small number. other countries have already moved on that. the fact that we're behind the curve on this is really concerning. i also, you know, the issue on china, the medical supplies, many of the gear that we're talking about had huge tariffs on it that curbed our supplies, our inventories of those supplies since 2018. those tariffs were rolled back, slightly, on march 10th, very quietly by the administration, but these are really critical
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issues, as the need to coordinate not only the response to the health crisis, the governors have really been stepping up, but they're running out of money rapidly. we need a stimulus program, and i really call it a stop-get program to bridge these covid-tainted waters that really hits on all fronts. the health care issue first. how do we deal with the crisis, how do we get testing up, tracking up. how do we get to a place where we better manage this, but we have to manage the emergency. we also have to pay people. they have to be able to buy food and shelter. this is really important. and also, the states need huge transfers. if they do not get transfers to the states, the burden that they are bearing, and i'm here in lockdown with ian, we're all in lockdown now, this is really important, they're not getting revenues, so they'll have to cut a lot of essential issues, like schooling and it could even be garbage pickup. this is really important. they need transfers to the state, as well. >> ian, we've been talking about
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this so much that i would like to think that if handled well, and that's a very, very, very big if, if handled well, we could come out of this -- out the other side of this with some major global structural problems fixed. and maub some american economic structural problems fixed. >> there's clearly opportunity to address a lot of the holes in the social safety net. and i think the ability of the americans to do that, both in terms of the requirements that are made for the ceos and for the businesses, the industries that are getting bailed out, as well as some new detail-type policies for americans, workers that clearly don't have the health care capabilities, the unemployment benefits, the flexibility in a gig economy. those are the things that clearly can be addressed coming out of this. but it's not going to be addressed at a global level at all. and one of the reasons why i'm skeptical about this is because
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of the political pushes that will change over the next few weeks and months. right now, overwhelmingly, the political calculus is towards shutting everything down, not only because these cases are exploding, but also because the leaders that show that they're decisive in shutting things down are going to get an electoral bump that come frit. we've seen it in france, in italy, in south korea, and we're even starting to see it with trump's numbers here in the united states. and i expect they'll continue to go up over the course of the next few weeks. but it won't last. as the economy starts really crumbling and people feel that concern even as the number -- and the numbers start to slow down, there will be a massive political press to open up these quarantines earlier than you would like to do, and i'm certain that won't be coordinated, either. especially not in the united states, in the middle of an election period. so, let's be clear. there are a lot of political reasons why we're unlikely to get the kind of outcomes that i
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think all three of us would like to see. >> yeah, diane, how bad does unemployment get in this country? >> you know, it's really easy to get over 10%. it's easy to see over 10.5 million jobs if not more lost. people are really -- this is unprecedented and the pace at which we're losing jobs, it's really incredible to see what kind of unemployment claims -- and most people -- a lot of people aren't even eligible for unemployment claims. i'm talking to small businesses every day that have closed down, and they're like, we don't even have the ability to apply for unemployment claims, because we're the owners. and i think this is really important to understand that this is a compounding crisis that's rapid, it's a crisis that we have to deal with on all fronts. and as ian said, there's going to be a lot of pressure to open things up more rapidly, which means more fatalities and less data, and the ability to deal with this and manage it more effectively over time. that's why we need a national coordinated response. the governors have been amazing. they really have stepped up and
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been calm and explained what's going on. so people are still thinking, even in lockdown cities where i am and where you are, that it's a couple of weeks. this is not a couple of weeks. it's got to be months to get through this, to not overwhelm the city even more than we already are. and i think that reality has not set in. and how we adapt to that and come out the other side and then deal with it, you know, we've got a defense department, we need a pandemic apartment. this is something we have to actively manage the risk of and deal with in a much more productive and coordinated way. and i agree with ian, the move is accelerating nationalism, populism, closing borders rather than increasing cooperation. and that g-20 meeting back in 2008, christine lagarde organized that and insisted with the bush administration that that happen when she was french finance minister. we have no one advocating for that right now. >> thank you to both of you. diane swonk is the chief
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economist and ian bremmer, if you're not a follower of his on twitter, you should follow. he's got some good analysis on this. thanks to both you've. the world's 70 million refugees do not have the option of social distancing. how refugee camps in the middle east have been ravaged by coronavirus. is the rest of the world even watching? that's next on "velshi." and now, introducing new boost women... with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you. new, boost women. no no no no no, there's no space there! maybe over here? hot! hot! oven mitts! oven mitts! everything's stuck in the drawers! i'm sorry! oh, jeez. hi. kelly clarkson. try wayfair! oh, ok. it's going to help you, with all of... this! yeah, here you go. thank you! oh, i like that one! [ laugh ] that's a lot of storage! perfect. you're welcome! i love it. how did you do all this? wayfair!
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we are telling cafes, pubs, bars and restaurants to close tonight as soon as they reasonably can and not to open tomorrow. >> british prime minister boris johnson on friday telling all nonessential businesses in the united kingdom to close up shop. in italy, 4,825 people have died from coronavirus. 793 deaths reported yesterday.
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that was the single largest day death toll. in spain, the number of confirmed cases soaring this morning above 28,000. sirens wailed in jordan at the start of the country's nationwide curfew. any violation of the curfew in jordan is punishable by a year in prison. and last night, palestinian health ministry officials announced the first two cases of the virus in the gaza strip. the first cases to be diagnosed in palestinian territory. joining me now in london is nbc news correspondent cal perry. cal, i want to start with the gaza strip, it is the most populace place on earth by density. it's a small place with a very high population and has a number of problems specific to it, which should make this very, very worrisome. >> reporter: the united nations tells you that the gaza strip
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borders on a humanitarian crisis on a daily basis. this is a place that does not have adequate medical care and the vast majority of people live underneath the poverty line. it has been under a blockade for the past 14 years by both the israelis and the egyptians. it is completely locked down there to begin with. it's an incredibly difficult situation, a very scary situation for the humanitarian workers who are already hampered by travel restrictions getting in and out of there. everybody around the world, certainly, is concerned with what we're seeing out of italy. i want to show you some of the video of what we're seeing out of the italian hospitals. and this is what people in augusta are going to be terrified of. it is frankly what people in london are afraid of. we've seen this massive death toll jump yesterday, where we had those almost 800 people dead in 24 hours in italy. we had an emergency address by the italian prime minister at 11:30 p.m. local time, just showing you how grave the situation is, as the restrictions there are spreading. here in london, people are wondering why there aren't as
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heavy restrictions. certainly, we've heard some criticisms around europe of the british government. not only the french, but as well the spanish government calling on the uk government here to put in more restrictions to lock down london. london is in one of those weird positions where people are being urged to stay home, but some people are choosing not to. when you look at italy and how that curve has spiked in the last few days, many people wondering if that's what's to come for cities like london, ali. >> i just want to drivewaw your attention to the press conference that boris johnson is giving on a daily basis. yesterday's press conference, for instance, it's different from what we have here in the united states. he does give a daily press conference. boris johnson is somebody, close friends with donald trump. they're both given, oftentimes, to saying unusual times and staking out territory on one particular side of the political spectrum. and yet, it is not the spectacle that our daily press briefings that involve the president are here. >> reporter: right. and boris johnson, as you've
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said, is sort of known for at times being a spectacle to the media. and the policy aside, and a lot of people are being very critical of the policy here in the k government, saying it's been too slow to lockdown. the policy aside, these briefings are informative. he's flanked by his two top medical advisers. nobody congratulates each other, nobody thanks each other for the hard work. and i have to say, there's this camaraderie. as my wife puts it, it's kind of the blitz idea, our nhs, our schools, and it's far different than the briefings you're receiving there in the u.s., ali. >> cal, thanks for your continued reporting. cal joining us from his home in london. jordan is a city that hosts thousands of displaced refugees and persons which are some of the most vulnerable people across this plight. across the world, there are 70 million refugees and displaced people, and of those, 67% come from places like syria, zoounso
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sudan, myanmar. these refugees in incredibly close quarters have been left rudderless as the coronavirus pandemic continues its spread. those housed in camps around turkey, jordan, and lebanon as well as those in war-torn areas like syria and yemen or blockaded in areas like gaza are living in difficult conditions with little health care. meanwhile, the u.n. high commission for refugees has asked for nearly $33 million to help distribute aid and kits in attempts to get ahead of the virus and mitigate the potential catastrophe should refugees be impacted. to does the broader global affect of coronavirus, i'm joined by david miliband, the former british foreign secretary. david, thank you for joining us. i don't know where to start, but i think when the world looks back, not just on this coronavirus, but really the last decade, it will be a stain, a very, very dark stain on humanity, the way we have treated the world's refugees, and that was before coronavirus.
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before the world's forgotten populations might be ravaged by an infection that refugee camps and refugees in general do not have the ability to fight. >> well, ali, thank you very much for having me on your show. you've introduced this topic extremely well. we're living through a world record displacement of people as a result of war and conflict at the moment. and now coronavirus threatens people without basic health systems and in some places without basic running water. you're right to highlight the challenges in europe, but just imagine, if you haven't got a health system, if you don't have running water, how much bigger the challenge is. and i'm very proud of the 13,000 employees of the international rescue committee, we're a new york-based charity, founded by albert einstein, precisely to respond to crisis like this. and around the world, we're using the one gift that the refugees and displaced people have at the moment. and that is the gift of time. because by a strange fluke, the
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world's refugee hot spot haven't yet been hit. and that siren that you showed sounding in jordan, the lockdown, showed that jordan is trying to get ahead of this problem, not follow some european countries. and i'm sad to say the u.s. as well, in ignoring it. so jordan holding 650,000 syrian refugees is trying to put in place some measures to prevent this disease before it really takes hold. >> what do you make of the news out of gaza? they've got their first count. i was in kbagaza about six mont ago, as i exited gaza into israel, there was a woman who required medical care in israel. she was transferred from an surveillan ambulance in gaza to a new ambulance at the midpoint, which is a palestinian cross welcome and put in another ambulance to make it across to israel. an elderly, ill woman, three ambulances before she was able to get medical care. that is a massive problem in a place that's blockaded in which -- it's like a refugee camp, basically. people live in very, very close
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quarters. >> reporter: yeah, thanks very much. you're making a very good point. look, the density of the population in these displaced areas far outskipt outscripts a you would see on a cruise boat. in the figure i have to mind of the rohingya in myanmar, 40,000 people per square kilometer. you're talking about very, very heavily, densely populated areas. gaza, as well. south of the u.s. border, where the u.s. administration is currently returning people, it's precisely for reasons of density and a lack of health and other symptoms that the international rescue committee has launched its own appeal, so our staff are able to do the basic hand washing, the basic testing, the basic protection of health workers that is so important around the world. >> it's remarkable. you talk about hand washing, the thing we're all told we have to do over and over again to keep safe, hand washing and soap, something that doesn't exist with people who are living sometimes in squalor.
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some of these refugee camps are not squalor and they do have running water, but some of these are not formal refugee camps, in which people are assembled. there are also countries like venezuela, like syria, like yemen, where the health system in general has collapsed because of internal strife. >> reporter: it's a really important point here, ali. first of all, it's incredibly humbling when i read across all of the health centers that the international rescue committee is working in, in afghanistan, we've installed the hand washing centers. it's incredibly impressive that in colombia, which you also mentioned, we're using our own trusted networks to counter disinformation. but here's the big point. colombia has closed its borders with venezuela. so venezuelans, where there isn't an economy, there is ant proper health system now, are absolutely at breaking point. and that's why we're saying to people, of course the first response must be to think about fae family and friends in one's own country. but the international
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consequences of this are potentially absolutely dire. and in this connected world, a disease will not stay in one part of the world and not break out elsewhere. that's why we're imploring people, keep part of your mind, keep part of your heart for the global nature of this problem and the most vulnerable people around the world who need our help and who are able to take some measures that give them a modicum of protection if we're able to support them. >> david miliband, thank you for having this important conversation with me. i would like to have you back with your other hat on, as a former foreign secretary to discuss the coordinated global response or really the lack thereof. but right now, i think our mind needs to be on the world's refugees. david miliband is the ceo of the international rescue committee. i'm going to give you some market perspective when we come back after this break. n't count the wrinkles. but what i do count on is boost high protein. and now, introducing new boost women... with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you.
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coronavirus uncertainty. a spike in layoffs and unemployment as cities and towns shut down, leaving a lot of people to wonder when these markets are going to bottom out. i will tell you this, they will bottom out. this morning, i want to give you some perspective to all of these market jitters. let me take a 20-year look at the market. i'm using the s&p 500. i know we all like to talk about the dow. i prefer the s&p 500. they generally look the same, but it's got more stocks in it. this is a 20-year chart. it is sprinkled with various ups and downs, but over time, the lifetime of the s&p, if i go back 100 years, it's provided an average yearly gain of almost 10%. now, currently, the s&p 500 is getting hit hard. it's down nearly 29% since it hit its highs just over a month ago. in particular, industries like airlines, cruises, movie theaters, hotels, and gambling, all of these places where you can choose not to go there
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because you don't want to be exposed to coronavirus, these are the hardest hit industries in the stock market right now. here's a look at several stocks associated with those sectors, boeing, carnival -- the losses in the last month -- look at these losses, 44 to 70% compared to a month ago. but there are some industries bucking the trend. biotech, obviously, pharmaceuticals, cybersecurity, cloud services, networking equipment. as for stocks that are moving on the positive side in the past month, there weren't many, let me tell you. we. itted tpinpointed two. alpha pro tech and lakeland industries. both make protective clothing and accessories. one is up 100%. this is the sign of the times that we're living in. as one crisisething worsens, on
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-my kids would love that. -yeah. hard couple of hours of tv to watch on a weekend morning. with this ongoing national crisis, it can be hard to find silver linings when there is nothing but a dark cloud above you. we think we found one or two. the water ways in venice, italy, have gone from dark cloudy to clear after the country wide quarantine. how? because less canal traffic means an absence of sediment. countries practicing lockdowns like italy are seeing a significant drop in air pollution, specifically dioxide emissions. researchers have also found pollution from nitrogen dioxide in china has fallen by 40%.
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joining me, gina mccarthy, the former administrator of the u.s. environmental protection agency, she's an assistant administrator for the office of air and radiation. gina, good to see you again. thank you for being with us. i guess i am a little worried that the discussions, very active and regular discussions you and i and others would have about climate on a very regular basis have been pushed aside a little bit by coronavirus and maybe some of the strides that we're making on a matter that is going to affect our health for decades to come is getting sidelined a little bit. >> well, ali, it certainly is understandable. this is not the way you want to resolve the climate crisis is to find yourself in this type of an immediate public health crisis. so i think, first of all, let me recognize that the focus needs to be on immediate needs, what people need to have to keep them
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safe, but i want people to understand that this crisis is a public health crisis, just as climate change is a public health crisis. so we have to look at this as a community response, a community challenge, a people focused issue. and so right now we have people that don't have running water, and we're asking them to shelter in place. we don't have people that have enough money to pay the heat or electricity. so there are many public health issues that we have to face today and those need to be our first focus of attention. i get that, they need food on the table. we also have an opportunity here that shouldn't -- should still be on the table, which is to look at the future we want to build, not just how do we fix this crisis. because we know that we're all vulnerable. we see that. climate change is also a huge
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vulnerability for us. so as you look at spending trillion plus dollars to address this crisis, why don't we stop investing in business as usual and start looking at investing in a cleaner and more equitable future. you know, ali, we talked about this a lot. the people hardest hit by this challenge are the people in low income communities and the them communities of color. those are always going to be those most vulnerable. they need to be supported at this time. we can't have utilities shut offs. they have to stop doing it. we can't have people without food on the table. we have to have workers and small businesses that are helped, but don't show me a stimulus bill that is giving money to polluting industries with no ask associated with it. and that on focus on making the world cleaner, why are we communicating with the oil --
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>> we have been talking about airlines and casinos and hotels and places like that, but in fact there are asks on the table from the fossil fuel industry. they're different, right? the president's first instinct was to fill up the strategic petroleum reserve and to do things and there are a lot of workers, there are a lot of workers who earn their living out of the fossil fuel industry. we want to make sure they're okay. but this may be the opportunity for us to stop the subsidies we provide to that industry, or at least impose conditions to say, it is always too hard and too expensive to go green. we're now going to do things that are really hard and really expensive. let's do it. >> we know that we're talking about this a million times. the things you need to grow -- to address climate change are cost effective. they are good for us, for our health, for our communities, they are the investments that we need to make today if we want to build a safe and healthy future.
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so instead of negotiating with the oil industry, who is not -- we are not an oil shortage, just not making the money they want to make, instead of negotiating with airline industries, let's make demands for that money. let's look at the airline industry to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions and stop balking at that as the price of access to billions of dollars. let's invest in clean energy. we are talking about tax extenders, which bring us energy that is cheaper and that is healthier for all of us. let's talk about transit investments, let's talk about safe drinking water investments. this is what we need for a future that is better and brighter. so we know we're living in a pandemic, we know we're challenging, but let's get out of it by changing. >> yeah. gina, thank you. always a pleasure to talk to you. it is an important conversation for us to be having. we will not forget the climate
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while we're dealing with this crisis. former epa administrator gina mccarthy. that's it for me for now. thanks for watching. coming up next, two of the senators at the heart of negotiations of the $2 trillion stimulus package will join joy reid off the top of the hour. senators amy klobuchar and cory booker, "am joy" is next. i'll see you tonight at 7:00 p.m. ah sure. yes yes. yeah, yeah no problem. yes. yes, yes a thousand times yes! discover. accepted at over 95% of places in the u.s. discover. we are t-mobile the first to go unlimited. first with no annual service contracts. first with taxes and fees included. now t-mobile has the first and only nationwide 5g network. reaching over 5,000 cities and towns and over 200 million americans. and t-mobile is not charging extra for 5g access. because this isn't our network...
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