state of washington. we've been in touch with the governors. today i spoke with a man that i happen to like, i spoke with phil in new jersey, and we're going to be doing something very meaningful in new jersey. we're doing something, i spoke with j.b. pritzker, called me today, we're going to be helping them out in illinois. we're doing a lot of things in florida. we're doing a lot of things. and between fema and the army corps of engineers and the admiral in your group in terms of the purchasing, that's what he does, he purchases, he's supposed to be great, i'll tell you in about two days. but he's going to do a fantastic job. so we have an incredibly talented group of people. but yeah, we'll be doing two things and three things at one time. at the same time, though, we're going to be watching very closely the hotspots. we're going to be taking care and watching very closely our senior citizens, especially those with a problem or an

illness, we'll be watching them very, very closely. and we can do that and have an open economy, have an open country, and we have to do that because that causes other problems. and maybe it causes much bigger problems than the problem we're talking about now. you understand. jeff, please. >> mr. president, following up on that same topic, and on your tweet, do you think that the cure so far has been worse than the problem? >> i think the cure has been very tough. this has been very tough. this was an operation, this was somebody going to a doctor and saying, i need an operation. we learned a lot, we fixed a lot of problems. one of the things we've fixed if you look at the obsolete system this administration inherited, it wasn't meant for this, it was meant for a small group of people and even at that it was not very good and obsolete. we have a testing program now that will hopefully be able to be used for many years into the future should we have never

event like this. i don't think you'll have another event like this. this is very unique. you look back into time. you look back decades and decades. we can name 'em all even if you go back ten years, you know, you go back to '09, but that wasn't like this, as it turned out. but they lost a lot of people. we were early. we were early, jeff, because of the fact that we closed early, that was a big move. please. kristen. go ahead. >> you had said previously, i think from this podium, that the virus could still be with us through july or august. by suggesting now that you might -- or that the government might change these standards or these recommendations -- >> it's not change. no. we're doing things -- yeah, this was a learning experience for the people of the country. >> i'm just wondering if the time frame has changed for, the july/august time frame of when you think the virus will be under control. >> i think we've learned a lot. i think that there's so much discipline now that we never

had. nobody ever said don't shake hands. i did actually before i became a politician, once i became a politician. then it's hard to get used to not doing it, because you do it with everybody, literally thousands of people a week, shaking hands with big groups of people. you know, there's a lot of -- we've learned a lot. there's a great discipline that this whole country has learned, having to do with distancing, having to do with shaking hands. i think a lot of it is going to stay long after the virus is gone. i really think it's probably good practice anyway. but i think it's going to stay long after the virus is gone. but we can -- we have to open our country, because that causes problems that in my opinion could be far bigger problems, far bigger. look, this is a medical -- a severe medical situation that could cause problems far beyond the medical and then increase the medical problems to things that had nothing to do with this original medical problem.

we can't let that happen to our country. we have the greatest country in the world. i'm not going to let that happen. but this two weeks that we have spent has been an incredible learning period and process. please, kristen. >> one, you said it's likely going to be weeks not months before you suggest easing these guidelines you put out. have any of the doctors on your team told you that's the right path to pursue? >> we spoke to them today and i was telling them that we have two things to look forward -- don't forget, the doctors, if it were up to the doctors, they would say let's keep it shut down, let's shut down the entire world, because again, you're up to almost 150 countries. so let's shut down the entire world and when we shut it down, that will be wonderful, and let's keep it shut for a couple of years, you know we can't do that, and you can't do that with a country, especially the number one economy anywhere in the world by far. number one economy in the world. you can't do that. it causes bigger problems than the original. that's why i talk about the cure being worse than the problem. we can't have the cure be worse

than the problem. but what we have done -- so this is not retracing. this is not -- we've done it really well, because this two-week period has been good. and i'm not saying it ends at that time, we have another seven days or so, i'm not saying it ends at that time. i'm saying it's been like this incredible learning process. that's going to go into the future. that's going to go even as we open up our country. and we're going to be watching new york and we're going to be watching california, we're going to be watching the state of washington, and other places, illinois is becoming a hotspot. and we can do -- we can do both. now, we may quarantine -- we will be quarantining many people in these areas. there are other areas that just aren't affected or they're affected very little. and why would we close down 100% of the country? there are areas within new york where new york will be open but

there are areas within new york. remember this, new york has the new york stock exchange. it has nasdaq. it has the exchanges. to close the new york stock exchange and nasdaq and all -- with all the great work they're doing, they've gone largely to computer, you look at the floor, it's incredible what they can do but it's fully open. but we don't want to be doing that. we can do -- what i'm saying, basically, is that we can do two things simultaneously. and we've had this incredible learning period. plus people have been in a period and they won't be calling, oh, gee, because i've got many, many people, that now come to me and say, we get it, we think we can really do it now and do it while we're open. so at some point we'll be setting some guidelines, we'll be setting some datelines, and we'll be announcing them in the not too distant future. >> have any of the doctors on your team endorsed easing -- >> not endorsed. we talked together and i think they're okay with it and i'm okay with it.

this could be a much bigger problem. this could create a much bigger problem than the problem that you start off with. now, other nations are going to have to do what they're going to do but they'll probably do something similar in in our case much more so than anywhere else because of the magnitude of our economy, the tremendous size what have we built and what we have and the jobs involved. you have 160, almost 160 million jobs in this country now, the most ever by far, the number of jobs, almost 160 million. so we can't turn that off and think it's going to be wonderful. there will be tremendous repercussions, there will be tremendous death from that. death. you're talking about death. probably more death from that than anything that we're talking about with respect to virus. >> if we continue with these strict guidelines than if we ease them? >> no, i think we're going to do them both. that's what i'm saying. i think we can do them both. now, we haven't announced a date but we're fairly close to coming

up with a date and it's a much shorter period of time than i've been hearing the news report. and i think everybody should be happy with that. but great knowledge was gained. please. >> i have two questions for you, mr. president. my second one is on what your economic adviser larry kudlow said today. he was talking about this and said there were going to have to be some difficult trade-offs if you do ease these guidelines. >> you mean with the democrats? >> no, he was talking about how you said the cure shouldn't be worse than the problem and he was talking about reopening the businesses, getting the economy going back, going again. what are those difficult trade-offs? >> i didn't hear him say that, but if he said difficult trade-offs, sure, it's less convenient. before, you walk, you hop in the subway, you grab the handle and go to wherever you're going on wall street and you do all sort of things and you go in and you open the doors going into your great buildings or into the exchanges, and now you're not going to have to maybe think about doing that.

or you're going to think about doing it a different way. no, no, there are many trade-offs. it's a different life and maybe it will remain that way, frankly, after the invisible scourge is gone. maybe it's going to stay that way. not a bad thing, to stay that way. no, there are trade-offs, no question about that. but i actually think in the end we're going to end up being bigger, better, and stronger. we have learned a lot. please. >> we're seeing an increase of cases in latin america, in the middle east, some places in asia. are you considering a new round of travel ban? >> no. we're not, really. something like that could happen, i guess. but we're not, really. they thought we were going to have bans within the united states, we didn't do that, we're not going to have that. hopefully that will take care of itself. in latin america there's been an uptick. yeah, employeplease. >> mr. president, quickly, a second question. what prompted you to say, at the beginning of your comments, that

you were going to take care of the asian-americans? has there been something in particular? >> yeah, because it seems there could be a little bit of nasty language toward the asian-americans in our country and i don't like that at all. these are incredible people. they love our country. and i'm not going to let it happen. so i just wanted to make that point, because they're blaming -- people are blaming china and they're making statements to great american citizens that happen to be of asian heritage. and i'm not going to let that happen. please. >> mr. president, you say you want to reopen the country but most schools across the country are closed, two states are closed for the rest of the school year. how are parents supposed to go back to work and educate their children? >> the governors of the various states will have a lot of leeway. if we open up, and when we open up, the governors in certain states, for instance, you go to some of the states i just mentioned, those schools are going to be open. in many cases they're open now. but the schools are going to be

open. in other cases, governor cuomo, gavin newsom of california, certain governors will have a decision to make. they may make a decision to keep them open in a certain part of new york or westchester county or wherever it may be, they'll keep them closed. we're giving the governors a lot of leeway. >> these governors are saying they're expecting a peak in the next couple of months. >> the governors will make those decisions, those will be up to the governors. they're very capable, they'll make those decisions. >> can you explain why a $2 trillion economic stimulus is needed if you are going to reopen the country in a period of weeks, not months? >> because the virus has had a big impact on our country. so we're going to give a stimulus so that the workers can live their life. it was not their fault. it wasn't the workers' fault. and we are going to give a kick

so that -- it's a kick. and this way, we think the workers can go to a fair start. the small businesses, we're taking very good care of, we want to take care of the small businesses. that's really the engine of this country, a lot of people don't know that. everyone thinks of these great, big, beautiful businesses who by the way have been badly hurt also. but the small businesses have really historically the engine and still are, the engine of the country. and you would be amazed, the workers love those businesses. and the workers contact us and they want us to help those businesses, because that's where they've made their living, that's where they -- you know, they've been paid a lot of money over the years. you see what's happened over the last three years, salaries and wages have gone up substantially for those workers and we got caught by this sudden craziness coming into our country and coming all over the world. we need to make sure that the companies are strong and that the workers are strong.

that's what we're doing. and, you know, hopefully the republicans and democrats are going to be able to make a deal. they're actually fairly close. but we'll see what happens. please. >> why does it still need to be $2 trillion, is my question. >> you have to save companies that have been shattered. you're going to have to save various -- you know a lot of the companies yourselves, we had a company that was the greatest company in the world named boeing. boeing's going to need some help. now, boeing had some difficulty before, that's unlike others. we have other companies that didn't have a problem coming in. boeing had the obvious problem that everybody knows about from a little more than a year ago, a double problem, and it was a big one. and then on top of it, as they're getting ready to really show their stuff on top of it, we all get hit by this. and obviously the airlines are going to have a problem. but the airlines aren't going to be buying from boeing or from anybody else right now, because

of this difficulty. so we have to work with the airlines, we have to work with the cruise lines, we have to work with companies like a boeing, because boeing is, potentially, again, a great company in a very rough period of 13 months, very rough period, a horrible period, unbelievable period. if you would have told me this would have happened to boeing i wouldn't have believed it, because to me this was one of the truly great -- probably almost one point of gdp, that's hard to believe that a company could have that kind of an impact, but boeing, we have to work with it for two reasons. number one, it's a great company that we have to save. number two, it produces unbelievable numbers of jobs. and so, you know, the numbers have to be reflective of that kind of a thing. please. you know what i'm going to do? we have wonderful people behind us working very hard and we want bill to get back to the department of justice and we want the admiral to start going and doing your job.

and the same thing with deb. if anybody would have any questions, maybe i'll ask mike to stay around, but if anybody would have any questions for the group, and otherwise i'll let them go back to work. please. >> dr. birx, we seem to be talking about different geographical slopes on this, the curve would be changing. yet you just said 20% numbers coming out of new york gives indication that we don't know quite when the seeds, to use your metaphor. how confident are you on the start dates for each curve for each of the geographical areas that the president seems to be indicating we'll be adjusting the policy for? >> so that's a very good question. what we do know is now we can backtrack from people who get very seriously ill to when they probably got infected. this is when they were exposed. so when you start backing out each of those pieces, when you start seeing hospitalized patients, you know that the virus has probably been there for three to four weeks, substantially circulating within the population. so that's what we're looking

for. now, as all of our testing is improved and we want to applaud the group that has worked on it, if you look at the pandemic flu preparedness, all of this was built on a flu platform. it was never, ever thought that you would have a simultaneous respiratory disease hitting at exactly the same time as your flu hits in the country. and so when you're doing all of your flu surveillance, you could have small cases of these pneumonias and flu-like illnesses characterized as a flu-like illness for the last four to six weeks. so that's really a caution to all of us. when we get through all of this we'll be looking at each of the pandemic preparedness plans. a long way of saying, we know washington state is a little ahead of new york with the hospitalization record. what we will get to as a country

is being able to do what the president is talking about simultaneously. simultaneously doing containment contact tracing at the same time you're doing mitigation. i think right now we've put everything into mitigation. yet if we geographically get specific data by zip codes and counties, we'll be able to approach this in a laser focused way, making sure what we're doing in each of those areas is absolutely appropriate for where they are in their own little bell-shaped curve. >> dr. birx, what will the government roll out the antibody test so people can know possibly if they've been exposed? >> so several of them have come to the fda, i believe. obviously that's something i am very interested in, for two reasons. one, it will give us a retheteto retrospective on how really

asymptomatic versus mild versus all that have comes into the spectrum. secondly, by people who have high titers of those antibodies, those can become our solution for the making of hyperimmune globulin, so knowing who they are becomes really critical. we're still a couple of weeks out. i have to go back and talk to the fda on where each of these are, because this is what saved us when you do flu swabs, when you do strep throat swabs, and now where you do an hiv tests. these are the kinds of tests that will be critical in the future. i want to say one thing, you see numbers out there, 70% of the population will get infected, or 60% of the population based on those models. understand that the way you get to that number is you do nothing, and it goes through three cycles. so they're talking about this cycle that we're currently in,

another cycle in 2021, and a third cycle in 2022 in order to get that level of population infected. and you know we'll have vaccines by the 2021-'22 season and we'll hopefully have therapeutics by the fall of the next season. the reason why we're so focused on blunting the curve for this piece is if the virus comes back, we'll have much more facility both for diagnosis, testing, monoclonal antibodies, treatment, and then the vaccine. >> a question about the serology blood tests which some people have said holds some real promise here. when will those be fda-approved and when will they be widely available? >> that's what she was just asking about, iggs and igm, point of care, it would be no problem making eliza today, but you're drawing blood, processing

bloods, plates, that's what we've done in the past. we really want a finger prick assay. so that's what we're working on right now. >> realistically, how long about that's available? >> i can't answer because i have to look at where these companies are in their development processes. >> so it will be a while? >> well, there's some developed now in singapore so we're looking at how those work. so we're looking at those. but we're very quality oriented because we want to be sure we don't give people false negatives or false positives. >> i have a question for you. we have angry media all around this room, they want these seats. because of social distancing we're keeping them empty and they're keeping them empty. will there ever be a time when all those angry, angry people, who don't like me much to start

off with but now they really don't like me, will there ever be a time when it will be full like it used to be with people on each other's lap, and now they're outside wanting to get in and jealous of these reports, will we ever have that back or will it look like this forever? >> so we're learning a lot about social distancing and respiratory diseases. those are the discussions we have to have in the future. it was what you were talking about, changing our whole behavior patterns of what we touch and being conscious of that. i remember when i was worried saturday morning, i was trying to think, what all did i touch on friday? did i touch a doorknob? did i do this, did i do that, did i not wash my hands? you go through this whole piece, did i touch my face by accident? this awareness that we all now have that we didn't have before

where we would have pushed through that door or turned that doorknob because we were in a hurry, i think all of us thing twice. >> when the virus is gone will people be allowed to sit next to each other in your opinion? >> i don't know. you have to look and see if we have a new respiratory piece. certainly this is the way we set up every clinic around the world when we're worried about tb and tb transmission. >> i was wondering if you could comment on the new measures that britain has put into place. also germany has said it doesn't want crowds of less than two people except for families, which is a pretty restrictive number. does that inform your thinking as you are coming up with advice for this next period for the president and the vice president? >> the president and vice president have asked us to look at every single scenario in every single country, because the more data we have, the more our decisions can be completely

data-informed, and really understanding what impact that has. i mean, we're interested right now -- i mean, italy obviously waited until about march 7th, the virus had been circulating for almost four weeks before actually going into that methodology. but for the first time, it looks like their mortality rates are starting to decline, which would be an illustration that things that they did two and three weeks ago may actually have an impact. those are the kinds of data we're looking at very carefully, as well as very careful data within the united states, of exactly where the virus is, what's the attack rate. >> we have been listening to president trump and members of the coronavirus task force who have been briefing reporters at the white house. good evening to you, i'm ari melber anchoring our special coverage. let me tell you exactly hadwhat just saw including some fact checks, then we'll bring in our experts. president trump today basically doubling down on comments he

made overnight, disturbing experts, because he said he may be looking at easing up on medically required restrictions in place to slow the spread of coronavirus in the united states, reaassessing in as soon as 15 days, that would be march 30th. that cuts against some of the medical guidance of his own experts because there's a two-week or more lag on confirmed cases that we have. before we bring in our experts, the world health organization warns the pandemic is still today currently, quote, accelerating. here is the map. 41,000 cases in the u.s., a number that has actually doubled just over the weekend, since friday night. and we have now over 450 deaths inside the united states. we can also report for you the list of states that are urging people to stay home continuing to grow today. it includes massachusetts, indiana, ohio, delaware, michigan, and louisiana. all told, we are nearing all-time highs for the

precautions being taken across the country, because we have over 100 million americans, that's about one in three of you, who are now subject to some type of stay at home guidance, precaution, or government order. meanwhile, when we talking about some of the conflicting statements coming out of the trump administration, today surgeon general jerome adams warning the coming week will be critical to slowing the spread of the virus. >> i want america to understand, this week, it's going to get bad. and we really need to come together as a nation. every single day counts. every single second counts. and right now, there are not enough people out there who are taking this seriously and you just see it looking in california, people on the beaches. you see it in washington, d.c., people out looking at the cherry blossoms. we need to take this seriously. >> yesterday, meanwhile, president trump approving a new request to activate the national guard to assist in three states hit hardest by the coronavirus

pandemic, that's washington state, california, and new york, which has become something of an epicenter with a surge of new cases. now, donald trump again balancing what his own medical experts and his own cdc advises as well as what we've seen throughout this process, which is times where the president will say one thing and then say another. basically today doubling down on the idea that regardless of this new information, the new numbers we've just shown you, his idea is that america will soon be back open for business. >> a lot sooner than three or four months, as somebody was suggesting. a lot sooner. we cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself. we're not going to let the cure be worse than the problem. at the end of the 15-day period we'll make a decision as to which way we want to go, where we want to go, the timing. and essentially we're referring to the timing of the opening, essentially the opening of our country, because we have it pretty well shut down in order

to get rid of this invisible enemy. >> now we're joined by peter baker, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," andy slavit, former acting administrator of medical services, susan strasser, columbia school of public health, and we're joined by a former member of the trump administration, david shulkin was secretary of veterans affairs for president trump. hello to everyone. andy, first of all, a fact check. what did you hear that computed for you in this briefing, and anything you want to warn our viewers that was misleading? >> i think what we're hearing is a left shoulder/right shoulder, larry kudlow/dr. birx, that's going to be whispering in the president's ear. the question we're going to have out of the white house is who does he listen to. sadly there is no shutting or

opening of the country. there is a path. the path is get widespread testing, widespread intelligence, widespread capabilities, buy ourselves some time, buy our hospitals some time. then if you want to let businesses reopen, let them reopen and require temperatures to be taken as people walk in. so there's a smart way to do this. and i completely understand the president's frustration, i completely understand the left shoulder/right shoulder. i think his tendency, i think our fear is his tendency will be to jump towards the kudlow tendency and if that's the case, the governors of the country are going to have to stay strong and we will have some governors that will stay strong because they have to, and we may have others that don't. i urge us all to take our own minds and understand what this really means. >> right, you're speaking about the tension across the government response and across the country personified by sort of a medical expert and an economic czar. peter baker, to paraphrase, and

i see, peter, you have a nice pet behind you, and it is national puppy day, i should mention, so we welcome that, it's appropriate. >> it's bring your dog to workday. >> if we can get any levity out of this, we'll take camera time with pets. what andy is really saying here is if it's dr. jekyll and mr. hyde, with no disrespect implied to mr. kudlow, a lot of americans and experts at this early juncture in trying to stem this thing, seem to be more concerned that dr. fiauci's expertise is heard, he of course not present at today's briefing, peter. >> yeah, i think that -- look, the president's point of view and the point of view in the white house is that perhaps they have gone too far. this is a debate that's happening right now. is in facting down the economy, package of a $2 trillion deficit spending

economic package, at what point have they in their view potentially overreacted. this is the debate as we were just saying between the economic wing of the white house and the health wing of the white house. the economic wing is saying when did the health guys get to decide all policy. so you can see the president eager, anxious to be able to pivot, to be able to move on, to say there's a future coming, in week we'll tell you something positive about the reopening of this country, even as the numbers get worse and worse and worse. it will be interesting to see whether he actually does that at the end of this week or what the surgeon general outlined on television this morning, that it becomes so palpable, he said he sees this as weeks or months. but you hear a lot of experts say actually months may be required. >> yeah, and both of you alluding to of course the ongoing clash in congress where any other day and any other news

cycle, the idea of another trillion dollars give or take coming out of the congress would be the biggest story in the world. it obviously comes in second to the medical emergency, although they're related. we're going to keep our entire expert panel here for more responsive fact-checking of the trump administration plans. but turning to that congressional story, i want to bring in u.s. senator kirstin gillibrand of new york who is taking time out of a busy evening to join us. i want to get your views on what congress is doing and the standoff in the senate. but first, any reaction to what we heard out of the press conference here, and specifically donald trump already sort of trying to tout the idea that we have a return to normalcy soon? >> well, the president isn't making any sense. and in fact, we have a major health crisis in front of us. i've talked to almost every hospital in new york state and they're still worried about getting basic personal protective equipment, getting more masks, getting more gowns,

getting more ventilation machines. this is a huge crisis. and for him to downplay it because he's worried about stock prices or his own economy, it's shocking. it's a lack of leadership. and so what congress is working on right now is how do we support our small businesses, how do we support employees who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, how do we make sure people can have sick leaves and paid leave days, how do we make sure that those who cannot be working because their children are home and the schools are closed, how can they still keep putting food on the table? everybody has a purpose right now and our purpose as individuals is to stay at home, to keep our families safe, to make sure we don't transmit a virus more than it needs to be transmitted. every time you choose to stay at home and not go look at the cherry blossoms or not go to the beach, you're making a choice to not transmit this virus and keep

more people safe. that is the right choice and we all have a duty to do that. >> understood. take a listen to something that vice president pence, the leader of the task force, said. >> we're going to give guidance out of hhs and dhs today about how those workers, even if they've been exposed to someone with coronavirus, as long as they don't have symptoms, would be able to return to work immediately, wear a mask for two weeks, but otherwise return to the important roles that they play in all our communities. >> your response, senator? >> the cdc and the doctors have told us that if you've been exposed, you need to stay at home. you need to be away from other people for two full weeks and you cannot go back to work for two full weeks. for him to imply that if you don't have symptoms, you're fine, that's contrary to what the doctors have told us. they've told us you can transmit this virus and be asymptomatic,

before you're actually showing symptoms. we have people in the senate whose husbands are sick on oxygen right now because of the coronavirus. i've talked to the families across new york whose children, whose parents are sick with the coronavirus. this is a real epidemic. for the president, for the vice president to downplay this because of their stock portfolios is shocking and really antithetical to the moment we're in. that's why congress is working hard to try to meet the needs of the american people, because the president and his administration certainly aren't. >> so let's get right into that. i've tried to remind viewers, because there are so many different things going on, that we did see some rare bipartisan progress, so credit to any involved in that, on the speedy bills, call them 1 and 2. this bill number 3, which has a ton of money in it, has become a huge clash. i want to give you a chance to update everyone here watching on

what the latest is in that and a chance to respond to what we heard, we were just showing the president and sxhhis views, we o heard from senator mcconnell accusing your party of, quote unquote, playing politics and being partisan about this. >> those comments are absolutely absurd. the first version of this bill that mitch mcconnell put forward was outrageous. he literally wanted to create a $500 billion slush fund for steve mnuchin to give to his donors or to his favorites or to trump's businesses, with no oversight and no accountability. they also didn't have enough money for hospitals, the personal protective equipment for the supplies that people are desperate for. they didn't have enough money for small businesses that are going out of business. and it didn't have enough money or even a way to help employees that were losing their jobs and not able to provide for their families, pay their bills. so the good news is senator schumer and the democrats have

been working 24/7 over the last two days to get a bipartisan solution. they are very close to having a deal in place that democrats will feel comfortable supporting and putting forward. these type of ideas will include money for workers to make sure this is a workers first bill, money for small businesses, making sure people who are sick can stay home, making sure -- >> and that would pass by when? when might that pass? >> our goal is to have that bill written in the next couple of days and be able to vote on it and get it into the economy. >> understood. i think a lot of people are keeping their eye on that part of this as well. senator gillibrand, a busy evening in the congress, a lot of folks in government working all kinds of hours. we appreciate you making some time for us. >> thank you. >> thank you. i'm going to bring back in our panel of experts, peter baker, andy slavit, david shulkin.

david, your view of how the president is handling this. and given your close-up experience, again, dr. fauci missing from today's press briefing, he's missed some previously, but he certainly made waves over the weekend here in speaking out and saying in his own measured sort of brooklyn doctor way that he wasn't trying to create any extra rift with the president, he's just going to get the facts out but he will continue to fact check the president in real time because there has been misinformation. >> ari, i'm not at all surprised to hear what the president had to say today. i've spent a great deal of time with the president and had many discussions with him. he's a man who always follows his gut. he is always willing to offer an opinion. that's why it's so important that people who are around him have a very defined point of view, feel strongly about their principles and continue to advocate for what they think is best, because the president will

listen. it's when you don't push back, when you don't share your point of view with the president that he tends to follow the way that he instinctually wants to handle a problem. so i think dr. fauci is doing an incredible job of sticking to what he believes in. he is a man of science. he follows his principles. he's doing it in a nice way that he's willing to work with the president. but he's not willing to compromise on what he thinks is right for the american people. and i think that's what you have to do and that will get us the best result. the president, of course, has a correct point of view, that these unintended consequences of social isolation, of the economic harm that many americans are feeling, are very serious. but we're dealing with a health crisis, not necessarily an economic crisis. and the virus is going to respond to us addressing it in an appropriate health way, not in dealing with the economics here. >> yeah, i mean, that takes us perfectly to susan and your expertise here, because it's one

thing to say that many people are worried about the secondary economic effects. i mean, this is a huge problem for everyone. and the less money you have and the more that you're in a day to day job scenario, the scarier it is for sure. and yet we're hearing from all the experts that the way the president is talking about trying to rush through or skip over the containment period would not only make the health care crisis worse, but it would ultimately potentially make the economic crisis worse. and hong kong is one of several places that people point to where trying to rush past this sort of containment period can actually exacerbate it. i'm curious if you can walk us through your views. >> i'll give the analogy of medicine that we have to take when we're ill. i am a public health professional, a doctor of public health, but first and foremost i'm a nurse. sometimes a patient has to take

treatment that's hard to swallow or has severe side effects. quarantine, self-isolation, is very difficult. it's difficult on all of us. i haven't been outside all day today. i see my daughter out of school. she might not have her senior prom. these are heart-wrenching things. it's what we must do to get ahead of this epidemic and 100%, we have to do it now or do it later. and right now, the most important thing is protecting our health workers who are begging for protective equipment and helping our elderly to stay at home and for all of us to do what we should do as citizens. stay home, listen to the guidance of dr. fauci and dr. birx. they know what they are doing. they are data-driven. they are using science to protect all of us. and they are the experts in this regard. >> so in your view, when the president says maybe we can just skip ahead and get people back to work soon or end of the month, that's wrong, half wrong, half right? what's your view?

>> i would just say there's no shortcut here and we have to continue to self-isolate until we know that it is safe to do otherwise. and that is the priority. in public health, we have to weigh the benefits to individuals and society. and right now, society needs health care. it needs to address this virus, stop this virus. that is first and foremost. >> that makes sense. you're mentioning you haven't left today. it's making me wonder whether peter baker has left the house today and walked the dog. we may never know. the dog has been walked. i was not the dog walker today. i was yesterday. >> so with all of that wrapped together, from the fact that there are many people suffering in real ways but there's also, as mentioned, all of the ways that people are just ground down by this, peter, what do you

think, as someone who watches the white house, what do you think we can learn? another point we saw in the briefing was the president trying to goad one of the members of the task force into saying, oh, well, eventually the restrictions on the press briefing area will be lifted and more people will be able to sit in there, folks like yourself and many of our viewers who follow this will recall, this is a white house that has never held regular press briefings, it took an epidemic to force that into happening. >> well, we're in an awkward position where we all would like to go but in fact we all know in fact we shouldn't go to the briefing. the correspondents association last week limited the number of reporters who could sit in the seats there. as of today they limited it even further to keep reporters further away, further at distance. one of our colleagues, we understand now, has some symptoms, is being tested, so

but on where that will end up. that's what the president was referring to at the beginning that have briefing. and of course that very room is sort of ground zero for the conversation that we're having about what is appropriate right now in this society. the president is up there with several different people every day. and people have commented on that online. why is he so close to other people if in fact he's telling everybody else not to be? he has at least stopped shaking hands so that example has finally stopped. yeah, we see in a microcosm there sort of the disruption you're talking about. >> i'll give the final word on that to david, who, again, served in the trump administration. we've seen that in the reporting, we mentioned dr. fauci, we've seen reporting that vice president pence has been pushing harder to have more distancing in the briefings, in their work as a task force. whether it's just the visual microcosm of it or not, here we are, deep into this crisis, and it still seems that the

administration is giving out advice that is itself not always following. >> ari, i think you saw the president's reaction when dr. birx said that she had a fever and until he heard the results of her test, he physically walked away. i've spent a lot of time in that briefing room. that is a very small room, as peter knows. it looks big on television but it's a very small space. and i do think -- i'm pleased to see they are putting in the social distancing. but i think we all need to model the behavior we want others to follow. that means we really do need to stay away from each other, because this is a virus that has the ability to spread up to six feet from one another. and, you know, it's different. as the president has said, none of us are used to this. this is a new world, we all need to begin to start acting differently. >> for those of us in reporting or working who have been in the white house, it's an old

building with very small areas. the hallways are tight, the coveted offices tend to be small, they're coveted only by proximity to the oval. so this is another reminder that old buildings, obviously lower income areas, places where people have smaller space and less freedom of movement, are actually places, for different reasons, that are more susceptible to spread. this has been a great panel to help guide us through what we just heard, i want to thank each of you, thank you and be safe. i'll fit in a break here. when we come back, we'll get into how america is not only dealing with the virus but also all of these problems around the facts. don't go anywhere. i'm ari melber and we will be right back. aa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it -

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welcome back. there are many officials confronting this coronavirus outbreak but one has stood out. dr. anthony fauci emerging as the key voice of reason, the public relying on him for the facts even when there has been spin and worse from the president. now, as we just saw tonight, dr. fauci was not visible at this briefing tonight. his absence comes after he publicly addressed the challenges of working with this president. fauci telling maureen dowd of "the new york times," for example, "i've been telling the president things he doesn't want to hear, it's a risky business. it's going to get pissed off, he's going to get pissed off."

when asked about the president's statements, fauci said a diplomatic response works best. fauci says he say the words quote chinese virus. today, "the new york times" also reporting that trump has become frustrated fauci's blunt approach at the briefing l. joining us now is overlapped in the transition period with this administration. good evening it yto you, sir. >> good evening, harry. >> you are someone that has dealt with this, knows it intimately, and i think viewers have seen it including your battles at times with the president, him taking shots at you and others. i wonder how you view this fight with dr. fauci. if there's a hierarchy of concerns, in cia parlance, sometimes we hear about the

level of confidence, and the president is entitled to make his public debates over things that evolve into policy, devolve into the level of confidence. this is an area where the medical science seems so clear. do you view it as worse in some regards when he's clashing with the experts. >> two things. i was the homeland security adviser to president obama in 2009 when we had to deal with the h1n1 crisis, and the contrast between president obama and donald trump could not be more stark. in terms of president obama's reliance and thirst for information in terms of data, science and facts. he wanted to learn from the medical professionals. tony fauci, he has been a national treasure for years. he helped us understand aspects of the h1n1 in terms of transmissibleability, what type of antivirals might be applicable here. tony fauci is the type of person

we in the white house were dependent on to make sure he was able to guide our policy decisions. when i see tony fauci behind donald trump is having to close his eyes and you can see he's very uncomfortable with the things donald trump is saying because donald trump does go on his gut instinct. he believes he's the know it all and he has the answers. now is not the time to be playing know it all when people's lives are at stake. tony fauci, i hope he's taking care of himself, getting the rest he needs. he is the type of person along with the folks at cdc that need to be guiding our policy makers so they make the right decisions that make the health of our country paramount. the economy issue, economic issue will come behind it. i know having worked in the white house that this is a very very challenging issue. it was challenging for h1n1, and h1n1 palled in comparison to the complexity and the challenges that we face right now with

coronavirus, which is much more lethal, much more prevalent, much more contagious and it's going to be something that's going to be with us for many many weeks and months, i think, to come. >> appreciate your clarity there. you mentioned the rest, dr. fauci mentioned in the "new york times" that he was sleeping at 1.3 hours at night. he's 79. he's upped it to four or five hours in the last few days. he has become something of a national treasure here as you mentioned, maybe more visibly to more people. here was the president putting his spin on preparedness, take a listen. >> tony fauci and all of the people, the talent that we have would have loved to have had three or four months of additional time if you knew that this was going to be happening. they didn't have that time. they read about it in newspapers like everybody else.

china was very secretive. okay. >> from your knowledge, is this the kind of thing that experts in the federal government only read about in the newspapers? >> no, and i think it's been clear that there have been intelligence briefings that have taken place. i think donald trump has been in denial and continues to be in denial in terms of the magnitude, scope and seriousness of this issue. and this is the time that even his critics want him to rise to the occasion, to lead this country and not just look for adulation and people to be saying all great things about his leadership. no, they really need to make sure they're doing exactly what the health professionals want us to do, which is to ensure we're going to be taking the measures we need to in order to keep ourselves safe. this disease, and the coronavirus, it's really going to continue to sweep through our country unless we take these

precautions that tony fauci are pleading with the officials to do. unfortunately, i think it's late already. and i'm hoping it's not going to be come even later because lives are on the line. >> a lot of lives on the line. john brennan working from home, and giving us much needed context. appreciate your time tonight, sir. >> thanks, ari. take care. >> thank you, i'm ari melber, we are going to fit in a break and we will be right back.

thanks for spending the last two hours with us. msnbc's continuing coverage of the coronavirus pandemic will be a part of all of this evening's coverage. i will mention to you, i'm ari melber, you can find me for "the beat" tomorrow night online @ari melber on facebook, instagram, wherever you get your news in. don't go anywhere.

"all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, as u.s. coronavirus cases cross 42,000, we have now become the country with the second highest recorded active cases headed it seems unfortunately towards number one, and at this moment, president trump is very obviously indecisive and losing his nerve, and millions of lives are on the line because of it. remember, we are here in this frightening situation because in the two months the u.s. and the white house had to prepare for the virus, the president was concerned about the economy and the stock market and chiefly his own reelection chances. less than a month ago, he told us the virus was going to quote disappear. just 17 days ago, his top economic advisers said the virus looks relatively contained. they did not get equipment for medicalro