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. welcome back. i'm ali velshi. there are 121 x,959 cases of covid-19 in the united states. there are increasing concerns that several other regions are about to go the way of new york city, most notably new orleans and chicago. and in what might be a sign of larger things to come, the cdc has issued a travel advisory for new york, new jersey and connecticut for 14 days. it does not apply to people who work for infrastructure industries which include trucking, medical professionals and food supply.

william rogers iii served as the chief economist at the united states labor department. thanks for joining us. elizabeth, let me start with you. 12 hours ago we thought that the president was considering what he called a quarantine on the tri-state area, new york, connecticut and new jersey. none of us could really figure out how that would work logis c logistically let alone whether he had the authority to do so. what do you know about this? >> what we've been seeing in general from this president is that he seems to refuse to use some of the emergency powers that he does have at his disposal to deal with this very

real crisis while at the same time threatening to use all kinds of powers that he actually doesn't have. the quarantine that he said he was going to impose on the tri-state area is an example of one of those powers. the federal govert does not have the authority to seal off three states in their entirety. it does have a quarantine authority, but it's a much narrower authority that congress gave the president to quarantine people to travel between states who are reasonably believed to be ill. that's not quite the same thing as the mass quarantine he was suggesting he would do. presumably at some point someone informed him he didn't have the authority to do that. anyway, he reversed course and then said it won't be necessary after all. >> sort of the way he does things. he tosses it out there. the cdc does have authority to quarantine individuals not

entire populations based on their geography unless everybody in that population were thought to have the infection. bill rogers, we have an unemployment rate of about 3.5% right now in this country. at the worst of the great recession, we hit 9.5%. next friday we're going to have an unemployment report. you think that it's going to be about 4%, just a little higher than it is right now, but that ultimately your math -- and you sent me a large powerpoint deck describing this -- you think we could get to around 17% unemployment which would be almost double what we saw during the recession and approaching levels that we had in the great depression. tell me how you got to these numbers. >> sure. ali great to see you, unfortunate circumstances. the 4% number, that's basically generated off of this notion

that the data set that the government collects to generate our unemployment rate, they do it in the week that surrounds basically the 12th of the month. that situates basically the survey between the 7th and the 14th of this past month where they would go out and survey individuals about their work habits and what they're doing. if you recall, during that week about 30,000 increase in the number of people who have filed initial claims. so if you use the historical relationship between the unemployment rate and u.i. claims which i think is very commonly done and people view u.i. claims as a good predictor of the unemployment rate, my estimate is you'll get somewhere around 4% for this friday.

people don't want to be complacent on that and be like, wow, how does that measure. what happened is the survey didn't correspond to this past week where we had over 3 million american files for claims. that's how i get to 17%. my estimate is if we use that 3 million, you end up getting around 17%. i'll give it a range of 15-20%. >> in other words, we're not going to see something like those numbers until at the earliest the first week of may reflecting april's -- reflecting the end of march and the beginning of april's job cuts. >> exactly. and the other thing that's missing in these estimates are the number of americans who are working part-time but want to work full-time for economic reasons. and this number is going to surge too, again, not in this

report but probably in the next report. you're not only looking at the typical official unemployment rate of around 15-20%, but you add in these additional people who are now working part-time but want to work full-time. that probably could get you close to 30%. we call it the real unemployment rate. >> this is useful information for you, because you cover the white house where next friday the president is going to come out and refer to what does not look like a massive increase in unemployment even though we've got all these people now on the unemployment lines. the worries about people being out of work, the performance of the stock market continues to seem to drive this president more than the health care crisis that we've got on our hands although it does seem that some people in the white house have asked the president to lean back a little bit or walk back a little bit on this idea that we're all going to work two

weeks from today on easter sunday. >> well, the president is really trying to lean into his political instinct. that's how he got elected president and that's how in some ways he's kept his base from not leaving him. he's continued to lean into these fights and make these considerati conversations about how he could best make this a political issue. we've now seen the president not want to use the power he has in the defense production act . we now see the president doing something like threatening people including new york and new jersey with lockdowns and having to listen to their governors and putting new york's andrew cuomo yesterday say, well, actually you can't lock down the state of new york and by the way, if you try to lock down the state of new york, i may sue you because he said very clearly yesterday that would be a federal declaration of war and

i don't think it's legal. the president maybe heard from the governors that he was going to be try to enact that lockdown. overall we see the president trying to balance his reelection bid with a real health care crisis and he's leani ining tow trying to give people what they want, which is some sense of normalcy and to get this virus contained and figure out how to get people healthy. >> i'm putting this map on that shows where the hot spots are in the country. we see the biggest hot spot is right here around new york, new jersey, connecticut. we have florida, new orleans, detroit developing, chicago, seattle, los angeles. it is moving into these other places. the president has needed foils in his arguments. the foils have tended to be democratic governors of states

where this has hit, seattle, illinois, michigan, new york. at some point when this becomes more serious in red states with red governors, is his view of how quickly we need to get out of this or how much he has to argue with governors going to change? >> i think that the president is lashing out at people because he needs a political foe in this moment. the democratic national candidates right now, they're kind of sidelines because this is such a big issue. of course joe biden is out there talking about things and the president is punching at him sometimes, but really it's these governors who are trying to contain these virus in their communities. the president has had several calls where republicans and democrats have said, mr. president, we need you to do more, we need the federal government to give us more resources. he's decided to focus on the democratic governors, but i think we're going to see that the places that have the most

cases right now, it's only because they have the most tests. new york is the epicenter but andrew cuomo continues to remind people we're testing more people, that's why our numbers are so high. i think in this state and in this country people maybe aren't wrapping their heads around this as well as we need to, but we were so slow in getting started with testing that we don't have accurate numbers about this virus because it could have been spreading for weeks without people knowing about it and because we were so slow, people weren't getting tested. >> thank you, as always, for your analysis. the mayor of one of america's

largest cities says its coronavirus crisis isn't close to peaking where she is. chicago mayor lori lightfoot joins us. r lori lightfoot joins us tter days ♪ we are all one jeep community and we can help. so we're offering payment assistance, 24/7 support and the option to shop at jeep.com. we're offering 0% financing for 84 months with no payments for 90 days. because better days are just down the road. ♪ better days jeep, helping you drive forward. t-mobile has the first and only, nationwide 5g network. and with it, you can shape the future. we've invested 30 billion dollars and built our new 5g network for businesses like yours. while some 5g signals only go a few blocks, t-mobile 5g goes for miles. no other 5g signal goes farther

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the mayors of cities and towns say their first responders are in need of emergency equipment to deal with the rising number of coronavirus cases and they have no way of meeting those needs unless the federal government steps in. all together more than 200 cities are requesting 28 million face masks and they need to make almost 8 million more testing kits and thousands of ventilators. joining me is chicago mayor lori lightfoot. you and i talked two weeks ago when i was in chicago, and things were just starting.

people were just sort of clearing out on the streets and we weren't sure where this was going. you and your governor have been using data to understand it is becoming serious in chicago. how do you procure what you need? can you do that or do you have to go with your state government or do you depend on the federal government? >> we have certainly made a request to the federal government but we're not waiting for the federal government. it would be great if the federal government actually had a stockpile that they could distribute in large numbers to all the areas of need across the country. i'm becoming increasingly skeptical they've kept up those strategic stockpiles. meanwhile, we prepare for this all year round, so we have a stockpile here in chicago, the state similarly. but we're looking at every available source. things that are starting to come

online regarding testing and equipment and masks that are freeing up. so we're looking to source ourselves because we can't wait and depend on the federal government. looking at where the arc of this virus is going, we're still definitely on the upward ascendancy. >> let's talk about the first responders and health care workers. here in new york we are seeing a surge well beyond what we saw in 9/11 in this city to the point that there were people at one point on friday there were 700 people on hold for 9/11. our front line responders, many are out sick because they've got coronavirus-like symptoms. many are actually confirmed to have coronavirus so it's a reduced staff and massively increased request for their services. how are your emergency services

faring there? >> we're definitely seeing an uptick in known cases. luckily we have a lot of resources. we are trying to push the police department to go to a kind of platoon formation so you have people who are on but people are off so they can rest. this is an incredibly stressful time on all of our first responders, police fire, emts, dispatchers. they are on the front lines so we've got to keep them healthy. we are working on specific contingency plans if we see a significant drop in availability of folks on the front lines. >> we were speaking to jill wine-banks. she said you needed to shut down your beautiful lakefront which must be a very hard thing to do in springtime in chicago because chicagoans are always looking for the first ray of sunlight, the first day they can go for a walk and go for a run.

but apparently people were not observing their social distancing recommendations as well as they should have. >> no. we had a very warm day here on wednesday and i looked out at the lakefront. i have cameras that i can see different parts of the city and it was like a sunday in july. people were not practicing social distancing. they were congregating on the lakefront and other paths across the city. our lakefront is the jewel of our city. it's what makes us unique. but in a time like this we needed people to stay home, so i didn't hesitate to pull the trigger on shutting down the lakefront in its entirety. we've got a couple of other paths, a river walk, a really nice walking trail that goes through the heart of our city. we needed to do these things to save lives. the vast majority have been very compliant, but a small number just didn't get it. so we have done everything that we can to educate. now we're in the enforcement and compliance phase of this.

i'm really pleased to see that since i issued the closing of the lakefront order, the compliance has been phenomenal. but we're doing these things, as hard as they may seem, as disrupting as they are on daily life, was because we know from experience of countries around the world that when we have these shutdowns, they have the effect of bending the curve. we're going to see more cases but we're really focused on a couple of indicators, icu beds, acute bed availability and what is the rate of increase in the number of known cases and we're making progress. >> what is your -- we've got in los angeles they've got the u.s.n.s. mercy, here we've got the usns comfort coming in to alleviate some of the pressure on the icu beds. what's your relief in chicago when you start to bump up

against your capacity for icu beds? >> we're asking hospitals themselves to surge internally. the difference between an icu bed and a regular bed is essentially a ventilator. our hospitals have some excess capacity. we're telling them to stretch themselves as far as they can. the second thing we've done is we've entered into contracts with a number of different hospitals to give stepdown availability. so if somebody doesn't need acute care in a hospital but for whatever reason they've got to isolate or quarantine and they can't do that safely at home, we brought online a number of hospital beds. i think we have 2600 at this point that are staffed by medical personnel to give some pressure release for the hospitals. then just this week we've entered into an agreement with the army corps. one of our convention centers is going to be turned into in

effect a field hospital. we expect those beds to be online in a weeks time. we're looking at shuttered hospitals in the surrounding area. we know this surge is going to be real, it's going to be high, it's going to tax our health care system. that's why we've been working now for weeks to be prepared for it. >> mayor lori lightfoot, we appreciate the time you've given us to explain how things are going in your city. it is important to the rest of the country to understand where our various cities are in their planning and in that curve of infection. mayor lori lightfoot of chicago. the coronavirus relief bill sets aside billions for hospitals but the money only goes so far when there's a dire need for equipment and supplies that cannot be procured. the former head of one of new york city's top hospitals joins me next. p hospitals joins me next. rger... rger... i want a sugar cookie... wait... i want a bucket of chicken... i want... ♪

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. as part of the $2 trillion covid-19 relief package signed on friday, roughly $100 billion is earmarked for hospitals and not for profit entities to cover unreimbursed health care expenses and lost revenue due to the outbreak. but the money is just part of the challenge. tracking down the valuable equipment and supplies needed to save more lives may have forced trump's hand when he finally decided to invoke the defense production act. >> voientilators are a big deal and we've delivered thousands of them. oftentimes you don't need ventilators very much. hospitals don't have many and now we're turning out that we have to produce large numbers. >> there's also the factor of having to stay on the good side of the federal government or trump in this case, something you think would be a given under the circumstances. david shulken is the former

president ceo of the beth israel medical center. good to see you again. you have actually run a couple of hospital systems. let's just get to the bottom of this voientilator issue. a hospital has as many ventilators as it believes it has to have under normal circumstances plus a contingency for unusual circumstances, but i guess we don't plan for pandemics. is that just how we think about how many ventilators we should have normally? >> i think that's right. i think hospitals try to have enough on hand so they can handle normal circumstances, but very few have thought about this scenario before and planned for this type of surge in capacity. i think that everybody has been scrambling to try to get the type of supplies they need. >> is the ventilator the big expensive thing in a room in an

icu room? i mean, are there other big pieces of equipment like that that we could have some other big event that could prove that we need? >> no. i think we're really looking at the ability to take care of patients in an intensive care unit. the intensive care unit has very sophisticated monitoring equipment so people can be properly cared for in the setting. and we're also looking at a pandemic like this in terms of rooms that have air flow so that respiratory infections aren't spread into the hallways and other parts of the hospital. they're called negative pressure rooms. when we're thinking about pandemics like this, very few hospitals around the country are prepared for this. so we're seeing our hospital leaders doing incredible things, creating surge capacity, converting areas like operating rooms into intensive care units, changing their ambulatory areas

to take care of patients who may need a ventilator. they're creating 40-50% additional icu capacities. now we're seeing even the army corps of engineers converting places into icus as well. >> let's talk about the curve. it doesn't mean any fewer people will get the disease, but it means you're never up against your capacity. here in new york we know we're up against our 911 capacity. we know that some hospitals have ordered refrigerated trucks in case their morgue capacity is full and we've heard reports of some of that happening. at what point do we consider we're up against our capacity?

what's the thing that says we're there, we're too close, we bumped up against what we can provide people? >> well, let's be clear. our health care workers and our systems in new york city where this is most critical are doing heroic jobs. they are handling thousands of patients in their icus and throughout their hospitals and we are in genesral seeing them deal with this about as good as you can see any group of professionals deal with this. the core of this is staffing. you can't generate staffing to deal with patient this s this s overnight. it's really our trained icu nurses, the physicians, the respiratory therapists who know how to deal with ventilators that are in such shortage. we're seeing these people work

extraordinary hours and putting their own families and themselves at risk to be able to help these people and i think we should all be incredibly proud. besides the ventilators and protective equipment that we're seeing shortages of, it's really the staffing and the personnel that are answering the call that i think are really the ones that we have to watch the most. >> it is amazing to see the people out there on the front lines, the doctors, the nurses, the hospital staff, the other people who work in hospitals, the front line ems responders, the police, the fire departments, the paramedics. we are really seeing something incredible. for all the frightening things we're seeing, there are things bringing joy deep to our harts. tons of thousands of health care workers are putting their health and safety on the line for this country.

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direct deposits into their accounts, meaning the accounts of americans who will get a direct deposit. if you are getting a check, he said it is going to take longer. direct deposit means you filed a 2018 or 2019 tax return or you are on social security or social security disability insurance and you get a direct deposit. if the government has the direct deposit information for you and the last time the government sent you a check it went into direct deposit, it will probably happen the same way. if you've changed your banking information or your bank account since the last time it has happened you need to let the government know or file a 2019 tax return now. if you do not receive social security and you have not filed a 2018 or 2019 tax return, you're not getting a deposit or a check. so you have to deal with that. everybody else gets one unless you have unpaid child support and that's been reported to the federal government. then you will not have that or

it will be deducted from what you owe the government. everybody else gets a check. health care workers on the front lines are pleaded for more equipment. at this critical moment, a unified effort is urgently needed to identify gaps in the supply and lack of access to ppe or personal protective equipment necessary to fight covid-19. the ama continues to urge the administration to ensure manufacturing of ppe is operating at maximum possible capacity and create a national tracking system of acquisition and distribution of critical ppe complie supplies. welcome to both of you. earnest let me start with you, your people are on the absolutely front lines of this. it becomes confusing to people like us about where it is you're

supposed to get your supplies and when there aren't enough supplies, what is it you're supposed to do about it because we've heard about nurses and doctors trying to reuse their personal protective equipment and going into some situations not fully protected. >> yes. the american nurses association has strongly advocated for the proper use of personal protective equipment, not the only n-95 masks, but also the face shields, the plastic gowns or the plastic jumpsuits that you see individuals wearing on tv clips. it's extremely important that the health care personnel have these so that they're not putting themselves at risk or also their family members at risk as well. >> i want to put up a map, dr. roy, to just sort of show where this illness is going in the

united states. right now absolutely the epicenter is right here, the new york, new jersey, connecticut area. you see a lot of hot spots around there. but you can see in florida, a place that seemed to be in denial about having it a couple of weeks ago, they've got hot spots there. new orleans is an emerging hot spot. it's actually got a higher mortality rate than new york does right now. detroit, chicago and a lot of places in the midwest as well as seattle and spots on the west coast. the problems that we are seeing here in new york, dr. roy, with supplies and equipment and staffing are simply going to repeat themselves across the country. and i still haven't heard of anything that sounds like a coordinated national strategy for the acquisition of supplies and equipment. >> so i'm going to try to be as clear and concise as possible. the need for basic essential equipment for doctors and nurses is still severely lacking. the need remains high. doctors and nurses and other

health care workers are risking their lives for the public. remember, it takes years to train these highly specialized medical personnel. a lot of my colleagues are really referring to this as a world war iii except that it's doctors and nurses who are on the front lines battling without ammunition. remember, burnout was high before covid-19 amongst clinicians and physicians and health care workers. it's just going to skyrocket. burnout isn't just stress. it's emotional and physical exhaustion, depersonalization and it's sassociated with a lot of negative consequences. it's associated with poor medical quality of care for patients. it's associated with increase in medical errors and increase in addiction, alcoholism, depression and suicide. i'm an addiction medicine doctor. this is what i see. i can't even fathom what i'm going to be seeing while this

pandemic progresses. you mentioned some of the other hot spots, emerging hot spots. as a country our health care system is not prepared to handle multiple hotimultaneous simultaneously. new orleans where i was a medical student and i was evacuated from katrina, the hospitality industry is shut down. these environmental stressors have has adverse impact on psychological conditions. we need to be aware of these issues and take an aggressive approach because lives are at stake and it's going to take a long time for the health care system to recover from all of this. >> earnest what is the issue you're most hearing from the nurses. is it the burnout, the lack of

support, the lack of equipment, the fear they themselves are going to get sick? what's the issue you want most clearly addressed? >> the top concern that the american nurses association is hearing from nurses is that they are concerned about the lack of the ppes. they also feel they are not prepared to care for these patients. they are not aware or fully aware of the disaster preparedness program s ths that different facilities have. they need to be educated on their role and what is expected of them so they can provide the best care possible. of course there's the stress, the working the very long hours and also the mere fact that some of their colleagues are catching this virus as well, which also puts that person out of the workforce and it means that more people are having to care for the individuals while their colleague is on the mend, or the

fact that their colleagues may also have to self-isolate because of the fact they were working near that individual. >> we're grateful to the nurses. please let them know, president of the american nurses association earnest grant. and of course we are grateful to the doctors, dr. libby roy keeping us posted. airline workers have been handed a multibillion dollar lifeline in the coronavirus bill. tibillion dollar lifeline in the coronavirus bill frustrated that everyday activities cause wrinkles and there's nothing you can do about it? now there's a solution! downy wrinkleguard is a fabric conditioner that helps protect you from wrinkles all day. just pour the dye free liquid into the rinse dispenser.

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part of the coronavirus relief package passed by congress includes providing loan and payroll protection grants to airlines, but those loans come with certain conditions like prohibiting stock buybacks and share dividends for at least a year. the airlines are prohibited from

laying off or furloughing employees until september 30th. hundreds of thousands of jobs saved by this. quote, labor unions quickly changed the narrative on this pushing the industry toward a pledge to not furlough workers in exchange for grants. joining me now is the president of the union that proposed the aviation industry's plan for workers the association of flight attendant sarah nelson. sarah, you and i have been talking about the efforts to make sure that the money that goes to companies in this particular instance to airlines goes toward payroll. to most people that should be obvious because payroll is generally speaking the biggest nut for airlines. but in fact there are other places like denmark that are keeping people home and paying them their salaries, making sure

that federal assistance is going to people more than just companies. >> that's right. and so the way that we structured this was in two different traunchs. the payroll grants are to salar for workers. it is very clear. and then the second is loans, that the airlines have to pay back and the government can take an equity stake for. but the payroll grants were never expected to be leveraged because this is instead of having people in the unemployment lines, we're keeping them in their jobs, connected to their healthcare, and able to work once we get through this crisis, we can lift off the industry again, which really serves as the backbone of our economy. >> and, of course, in denmark, you don't have to worry about your healthcare being connected to your employer. sheila, the treasury secretary has just said that if you are set up to get your checks into

your account, you'll have them within three weeks. if you're not, and you're going to get a paper check, might take longer. that's much faster than they were able to do it during the finan financial crisis. some americans have not filed for 2018 or 2019, they're going to have to do so in order for the government to have a place to deposit their checks. do you think we're going to see in that three weeks, once we start getting this money back and maybe we start to see this infection spread to other parts of the country, what do you think the economy is going to start to look like in three weeks or a month? >> well, we're somewhat in unfamiliar, unchartered territory here because we never really experienced a situation where we had the government issue a decree to simply paralyze every single business in the country at the same time. i think this is a moment when the denmark model is valuable. they're taking this very wholistic approach, saying we're going to put every single cost of this pandemic on to the government's credit card, and we

are going to simply put the economy into sort of a frozen state so that when this crisis finally passes, we will not be facing an absolutely decimated economy and all the societal ills that will flow from that, they can sort of thaw everything out, people can return to their businesses, hopefully they will not be completely destroyed, things will be somewhat as we left them and this is a moment when the treasury secretary and others should be looking at that more drastic model that is really called for in this situation. >> sarah, at united, which is an airline you represent and delta, which is one your union doesn't represent, in both cases they have asked people to take either unpaid leave or sort of take packages to leave. this bill means that they got to keep everybody else paid until september 30th. what is your sense of what happens after that? is it another tranche of the bill that we're going to have to extend that or do you think by

september 30th we'll be back to some sort of business and we'll have to deal with it after that? >> listen, we have to make sure that the healthcare providers have all they need and we're focusing on fighting the virus. but we also need to make sure that secretary mnuchin follows through with the bipartisan agreement because the airline package was the last thing on the table for this $2 trillion deal. and what happened late at night tuesday night was senator toomey came in and wanted to put a financial instrument on to the payroll grants that are intended for the workers only, not for the airlines, but for the workers specifically. and wanted to put a financial instrument on here that would make it impossible for the airlines to take. that would essentially render it unusable. so we thought that very hard. and what we did was we were able to make at the last minute, this is an option for secretary mnuchin. the secretary needs to

understand this was a agreement, a bipartisan agreement that senator toomey tried to destroy, senator toomey from the state where the first flight attendant dies from coronavirus, and so we're going to be fighting very hard for the secretary to follow through on this because otherwise that is what united airlines is talking about. if this is not structured correctly, after september, there could be a lot of hurt. and we don't want to see that happen. that's not what was intended and that's not what denmark is doing. >> sheila, it is incredible that, you know, we don't normally have unions and representatives of working people at the table in america as effectively as sarah and her group have been in germany, they do that, unions are at major negotiating tables. we haven't had that. this might be a model for us to follow for the future. including the restriction on using government money for buybacks. >> this is really a moment when we should be thinking about what the role of american business is

and this prior old model that said that companies should direct every dollar of profit to stockholders and corporate salaries is over, and we should be looking ahead to the multistake holder model where workers and employees and customers have a role in business decisions as well. >> thank you to both of you. sarah, congratulations on the work your union has done and hopefully we'll be talking about this in ten or 15 years as a model of how we can start to figure out when we get bailouts and things like that and loans and grants that the workers benefit from it. sarah, president of the association of flight attendants, sheila kohotkar, author of the book "black edge." thank you for watching "velshi" on msnbc. i'm back at 5:30. coming up next on "am joy," hakeem jeffries responds to president trump's almost quarantine of the tristate area. unlike ordinary memory supplements

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the congressional action in my opinion simply failed to address the governmental need. i find it irresponsible. i find it reckless. >> we still need more federal resources directly to the states that are on the front lines of this crisis. we're going to come back again

and ask for additional funding for the states and local governments to help with this crisis in the next round of stimulus. >> good morning and welcome to "am joy." as the coronavirus pandemic continues to wreak havoc around the world, the u.s. has now overtaken every other country to become the first country to report more than 100,000 confirmed cases, surpassing china and italy in the most perverse possible version of trump's signature slogan america first. and nowhere is the crisis more dire than the american epicenter of the virus, new york, which accounts for nearly half of all cases in the u.s. donald trump meanwhile who expended presidential time sniping at governors like new york's andrew cuomo who is failing in his mind is not praising him and thanking him and genuflecting on to him mad