this sunday, overworked, overrun, overwhelmed. >> unprecedented situation. the country in a desperate fight against the coronavirus. >> in a war with very limited resources. >> a new york city hospital described as apocalyptic. >> all the patients in this room, all the people you see, they all have covid. >> more hot spots developing, from los angeles -- >> what we see in new york city, it's coming here. >> to louisiana. >> all that you have to do to save lives is stay home. >> plus the economy shuts down. >> this could create a much bigger problem than the problem

that you start off with. >> president trump first says he wants the country to reopen for business on easter. >> i think it would be a beautiful time. >> scientists and joe biden push back. >> it's a false choice to make, saying that you either open the economy or everything goes to hell. >> but then mr. trump floats declaring a quarantine. >> i am now considering a quarantine, because it's such a hot area of new york, new jersey, and connecticut -- >> before backing down. my guest this morning, dr. deborah birks at the white house coronavirus task force. governor edwards of louisiana, governor gretchen whitmer of michigan. >> we may well in a recession. >> congress passes the biggest rescue package ever. how many more bailouts will we need? joining me for insight and analysis are andrea mitchell. eugene robinson. carol lee.

hugh hewitt. welcome to sunday and a special edition of "meet the press." >> we look a little different. we'll i'll be anchoring "meet the press" from my home office as we at msnbc news practice social distancing. these are nurses in new york city wearing garbage bags because personal protective gear is unavailable. this graph illustrates the almost incomprehensible rise in first-time unemployment claims to a record 3.3 million. on a week when the united states passed 120,000 cases of covid-19 and 2,000 deaths, when we appeared to pass china and then italy for the most cases in the world, president trump offered

americans mixed messages. early in the week the president said he'd like america to be open again for business by easter. that the cure, he said, shutting down the economy, could be worse than the disease. mr. trump seemed eager to play the role of optimist in chief, leaving it to scientists, governors, and local officials to own the hard news about disease spread, shutdowns, and forced lifestyle changes. by the end week mr. trump's tone changed. yesterday he floated the idea of quarantining the new york city region to prevent the spread of the virus before eventually backing down. tuesday marks the end of president trump's 15-day coronavirus guidelines. will he tighten them, loosen them, extend them? we shall see. it's helpful to keep in mind what dr. anthony fauci said last week. you don't make the timeline, the virus makes the timeline. >> it's like a war zone. we're in a war with very limited resources. >> a nation in crisis. >> all the patients in this room, all the people you see, they all have covid.

>> doctors, nurses, first responders are pleading for protective equipment. >> fighting a fire with blindfolds on. >> running out of supplies, running out of iv pumps, running out of ventilators. >> i'm worried my patients will die alone without the people they love next to them. >> friday, president trump signed a $2 trillion economic relief package, and after weeks of mixed messages, used his power under the defense production act to compel general motors to manufacture ventilators. but just 24 hours earlier -- >> i don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. you know, you go into major hospitals sometimes, they'll have two ventilators. and now all of a sudden they're saying, can we order 30,000 ventilators? >> with all due respect to him, he's not looking at the facts. >> reporter: mr. trump has attacked many of the governors who are pleading for his administration's help. >> i say, mike, don't call the governor of washington, you're wasting your time with him. don't call the woman in michigan. it doesn't make any difference what happens.

>> more than 228 million people in 27 states are now living under shelter in place orders. but earlier this week, the president floated a rosy timeline. >> i think easter sunday, and you'll have packed churches all over our country. i think it would be a beautiful time. >> before governors of both parties pushed back. >> who doesn't want the economy back? you know what i want more? i want them alive. >> i do not think south dakota will be back to normal for many months. >> i will be listening to doctors, physicians, scientists. >> and the president backed off his timeline. on saturday he floated a three-state quarantine. >> some people would like to see new york quarantined because it's a hot spot. >> before retreating again hours later. as the virus continues to spread, the president is already declaring victory. >> the federal government's done a hell of a job. >> and arguing -- >> this was something nobody method could happen to this country. >> but many experts did, and told the about the spresident s.

in a national security council pandemic playbook which the white house was briefed on. in exercises called "crimson contagion" conducted in 2019, when found the administration was not ready for the outbreak of a respiratory virus. in intelligence agency warnings in january and february, where plurch and aides played down the threat, failing to ramp up testing, until the virus had spread. >> did the cdc screw up or did you screw up? >> we didn't screw up, i don't think cdc screwed up, nobody expected a thing like this. >> joining me is the response coordinator for the white house coronavirus task force, dr. deborah birx, welcome to "meet the press." we'll try to close the gap on a bit of our satellite delay and start with the first question this way. it took from february 29th to march 17th to get to 100 deaths, it took another nine days to get to 1,000 deaths. sadly it took 72 hours to get to

2,000 deaths. dr. birx, where are we today? and where is this headed in the next few weeks? >> this is the way pandemics work and that's why we all are deeply concerned and why we've been raising the alert in all metro areas and in all states. no state, no metro area, will be spared. the sooner we react, the sooner the states and the metro areas react and ensure that they've put in full mitigation, at the same time understanding exactly what their hospitals need, then we'll be able to move forward together and protect the most americans. there's a new website up. it comes from chris murray out in washington state. it's on the ime website, imhe website. it predicts and looks at this built as an infectious disease model.

>> i would love to take a look at that. what part of this model -- what is it telling you? what does this mean? what is it that you've learned from that model that tells us -- you said no metro area is spared. so that does tell me that this idea of creating a county by county low, medium, high-risk advisory level by the middle of the week, is that something that's not going to happen? >> no, i think those two pieces come together. there's two pieces that we absolutely need. i think you've had many experts talking about this. one of them is ensuring we have full capacity for full diagnosis. so that is still going on. we do have enough tests for that. the other piece of this is surveillance. we're looking across the united states for counties that do have lower case numbers right now to see what we can do right now in order to really put into place full surveillance, full contact tracing, and full diagnostic capacity to ensure that cases are found and we contact while

the metros and other areas go through clearly important met gation efforts to spare as many american lives as possible. >> what are you seeing in new york that raises alarm bell to you when this does -- when suddenly detroit, new orleans, chicago, start to see the same incoming to their icu units that the new york area is seeing now? >> we're studying new york very carefully. we're studying them, the hospital needs, how to do better testing, how to keep less sick people away from the hospital and being tested elsewhere, looking at admissions, looking at how to keep those hospitals stocked. it's not enough for us to get materials to warehouses. we have to be working with the state and local governments comprehensively to ensure that equipment and supplies are getting to each hospital. hospitals are so busy taking care of the people who are ill, they can't be spending time doing inventory. so we need to help and support that. >> that appears to actually be a

problem. look, i'm curious what role do you play in deciding where spare ventilators go, versus the role fema plays? the reason i ask is there seems to be confusion. governors are complaining that they find themselves either bidding against other states, or the federal government, when it comes to different equipment issues. so is the federal government going to take over all procurement and dispersement of medical equipment or not? >> i think at this moment we're asking every single governor and every single mayor to prepare like new york is preparing now. know where every hospital is, public, private. know where every one of your surgical centers are. that's where your anesthesia ventilators are. know how to change them up to supportive ventilators to take care of people. know where every piece of equipment is in the state, know how to move that around the state based on need. as americans we know how to innovate. it's not just what you have inside your doors today, it's

how you can surge and move things around. we know this epidemic moves in waves. each city will have its own epidemic curve. so we can move between states, we can move within states, to meet the needs of everyone. >> you sort of overlooked the question about, is the federal government going to take over at least the procurement and the distribution of things going forward? i understand what you're saying, states and mayors need to do right now in case they don't have this from the government. but who should be trying to acquire new equipment? states or the federal government? >> i think the federal government right now is working very hard on looking at where all the ventilators are and where production can be. but we need states at the same time to look where all of their ventilators are, including outpatient surgical center, which as really important place to be looking. because you get staff plus ventilator. they have also the clearly --

the cardiac monitoring, the -- be able to monitor oxygen levels. all of that can come into the hospitals to care for patients. so both of those pieces need to come together. the government looking to increase procurements and states looking for every single option that they have. >> new york city. if you could quarantine the tristate area, and there's a lot of legal hurdles to that -- if you could, do you think it would be the best way to slow this virus down? >> we looked at what new york state and what the mayor and governor did over the last ten days. when those alerts went out of the increased number of infections, a lot of people who could leave new york left new york. so we immediately saw cases rising out on long island and cases rising in southern florida. what we're trying to say to everyone is, when this virus comes to your metro area, please stay in your metro area where

your care can be provided. because it's spreading virus more quickly around the united states. >> should we be shutting down domestic air travel? i understand you need to move airplanes for supplies, for people in necessary environments. should there be some domestic air travel shutdown? it does seem odd that new york city airports are wide open for people to leave. >> the amazing thing to me and what has been so heartening to me, and when i work on epidemics around the globe, it's seeing communities come together. and communities have self-quarantined and self-isolated themselves. the amount of air travel in and out of new york we believe is down by 90%, metro down by more than 90%. so people are using common sense to protect others. we also have to be able to move doctors and nurses around the united states. they're part of our surge capacity. you can see many have come forward as volunteers. we need to be able to get them places.

>> are you going to announce the new -- given everything you've just said, given no metro area is going to be spared at this point right now, that's your concern, should we assume she's 15-day guidelines are going to get extended another 15 days, another, through the end of april? what's realistic, dr. birx? >> what i wanted to be very clear on is every metro area should assume that they could have an outbreak equivalent to new york and do everything right now to prevent it. if they mitigate now before they start seeing cases in the emergency room and in the hospital, once you see those, the virus has been spreading for days to weeks. so this is really my call on every mayor to prepare now. >> so it sounds like these guidelines are going to be extended at least another couple of weeks. is that fair? as americans are watching, should they be prepared to be

hunkering down for the rest of april? >> my job today is to put all the data together, the integrated data of testing, case reporting, the global situation, and prepare the best briefing i can for the president and vice president so they have all the data to make the decision that's best for the american people. >> so are you going to -- what is your recommendation? what recommendation are you going to be giving to them, or are you not sharing that with us? >> i'm going to share it with the president and vice president first. >> all right, dr. birx, i will leave it there. stay safe, stay healthy, and we're all wanting to defeat this thing as soon as possible. so thanks for your service. >> thank you. joining me are governors of two states that have seen an alarming rise in covid-19 cases. governor gretchen whitmer of michigan, and jorgovernor john

edwards of louisiana, welcome both of you. governor edwards, sadly, you had to report that you had a staffer die from coronavirus last night. i just figured i'd let you say a quick word about that. >> thank you. april was a tremendous asset to louisiana. she was a valuable member of our team. someone that i was actually personally friends with and had gone to church with. she died last evening about 6:00. and this should be a reminder to everyone how serious, how deadly covid-19 is. and we need to do everyone that we can to minimize the spread, slow the spread. stay home. slow the spread and save lives. and that's my message to the people of louisiana today. >> governor whitmer, tell me the situation in detroit specifically right now and where michigan is today. >> our numbers are climbing exponentially. we knew it was a matter of time, not if, covid-19 would come to

michigan. we took aggressive measures. we've been on the front end of aggressive measures. we see this astronomical rise. we've got hospitals that are already at capacity. we're running out of ppe as well. i'm grateful we got a shipment from fema yesterday for 112,095 masks. but we're going to be in dire straits in a matter of days so we're keeping up the pressure and working 24/7 at the state level. grateful there are people doing that at the federal level as well. this is not something that we should be fighting each other on. it should be everyone fighting covid-19, everyone versus covid-19. >> governor edwards, give me the situation in new orleans. in particular i think a lot of folks are concerned about if some of the rural communities of louisiana, how quickly do you fear that your system could get overwhelmed? >> well, we have the coronavirus now in cases in 56 of our 64

parishes. so while the hot spot is down around new orleans, it is statewide. we know that if we don't flatten the curve, we're on a trajectory currently to exceed our capacity in the new orleans area for ventilators by about april 4th. and all beds available in hospitals by april 10th. we're doing everything we can to surge capacity. it's very difficult. we did get ppe yesterday like governor whitmer said. we've already allocated about 100,000 masks just yesterday to the hospitals. ventilators are the short-term, big, pressing issue we're trying to solve for. very difficult because every state is looking for these. there are only so many to be had. and so we're trying to get the public to slow the spread by following the mitigation measures while we ramp up our medical capacity. this is a very challenging public health emergency. >> governor edwards, did what dr. birx said about the ventilator situation, urging

governors and mayors, do your own inventory, find anything you can? it seems to be a subtle message that the federal government's struggling too. >> well, that's true. everybody's struggling to get these items. but that really isn't anything new. we've been doing that for many days here in louisiana. we're inventorying all of our health care clinics and various settings to find any breathing device that can be used as a ventilator. perhaps it has to be retrofitted or modified in some way. we have emt-type ventilators that really aren't designed to be used in hospitals, but they can be if necessary. we're also trying to see if there's certain ventilators that might be able to service more than one patient at a time, depending upon their acuity level. they're doing everything that we can, but we've only been able to procure 192 ventilators when we've had about 12,000 on order. >> governor whitmer, you seem to imply late in the week that you

thought the federal government or perhaps president trump was punishing michigan in your attempts to procure different medical items. do you have any -- do you still believe that is happening? or do you believe that you were mistaken? >> no, you know, here's what i said. what we are doing is placing all of these orders. we are contracting, we are trying to procure this in addition to the help we need from the federal government. and like massachusetts, like new york, like california, like places all across the country, we're bidding against one another. j.b. pritzker from illinois observed that same thing. then we get a notice it's being directed to the federal government. i think that's a frustration point that is not unique to michigan but is certainly a part of the issue we're all confronting. there's not enough ventilators. we need thousands of ventilators in michigan. there's not enough n-95 masks. we've got nurses wearing the same masks from the minute they

show up for their long shift to the end of that shift. you know, we've got to slow the spread, and that's why the stay-at-home orders, asking people to do their part -- people need to understand the seriousness of this issue. it's a novel virus with no cure, no vaccine, highly contagious, and deadly. no one's immune from this thing, no generation is. and that's why staying home and keeping this virus from being transmitted from person to person is really the best tool we have. but we've got to keep working to get all of these other pieces of equipment. when we're bidding against one another, it's creating a lot of frustration and concern. and that's exactly what i was trying to convey, and same thing that's been conveyed by others on both sides of the aisle. >> governor whitmer, i'm curious, the president seemed to direct vice president pence to not call you, not talk to you. but vice president pence is talking to you. is your relationship with the vice president a good working relationship? and are you going to attempt to

heal your relationship with the president? >> you know, i think everyone at the federal level and the state level, the states across the country, are working 24/7. this is a challenge, this is a moment where the enemy is covid-19. it's not one another. and that's why i'm grateful for the partnership that we've gotten. i've talked to the vice president a number of times. we're working with everyone from the white house on down, through fema, dhhs, the army corps of engineers. it's got to be all hands on deck. we are not one another's enemies, the enemy is the virus. it is spreading and it is taking american lives. and that's precisely why we governors are banding together where we can to try to make sure that we are organized, we are learning best practices from ooun another, sharing information, and protecting the people of our states. >> governor whitmer of michigan, governor edwards of louisiana, again, our condolences for your

staffer, april dunn, governor edwards. stay safe, stay healthy, and as you guys said, we're all in this together. thanks very much. i'm going to talk to a likely democratic nominee for president, former vice president joe biden. as we go to break, here's a map tracking the worldwide spread, from the early outbreak of the coronavirus to where we are today. as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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just consider all that's happened since the last time we had former vice president joe biden on "meet the press." way back on march 1st. biden dominated the super tuesday primaries and beyond. he won 17 states and wrapped up the democratic nomination. more than 2,000 americans though have died from the coronavirus, 3.3 million people filed for first-time unemployment claims, and the government just had to pass a $2 trillion plus rescue package. throughout the coronavirus pandemic, biden has struggled to make his voice heard.

he joins me from his home state in wilmington, delaware. mr. vice president, welcome to one of the more odd appearances i think these days on "meet the press." thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> let me start with a simple question here. let's set aside president trump's rhetoric. is there an action he has not taken that you would be taking right now if you were president? >> yeah, i'd be doing two things at least. one, i would make sure that he uses the defense production act, not only to deal with the issue of whether or not there are ventilators, but i would do the same thing for masks and gowns and masks and shields, all the things that our first responders and our doctors and nurses need. why are we waiting? we know they're needed. they're going to be increasingly needed. you just heard the president's spokesperson talk about the increasing need. so i would be moving rapidly. it's also be talking about what the next stage of the funding we're going to need. we've gone through three stages. that's not going to be enough to

get us all the way through this. there's a number of things i'd be doing that are not being done right now. >> you know, it's interesting. one of the things that you have said, the scientists you've spoken to have indicated that realistically, we're looking at june at the earliest to even think about opening back up. that's a stark difference than the warnings we're getting. you're certainly hearing scientists will say that an occasional governor will say that, dr. fauci might say that, but you don't hear a consistent message nationally. how would you convey that to the american people, basically telling them, another 60 days of home confinement? that's a lot to ask of the american public. >> well, look, the american public is really strong and tough. the first thing we should do is listen to the scientists. secondly, we should tell them the truth. the unvarnished truth. the american people have never shied away from being able to deal with the truth. the worst thing you can do is raise false expectations and watch them get dashed.

then they lose confidence in their leadership. tell the truth as best we know it. as best the scientists know it. let them speak. and we should be doing all in our power right now to deal with being able to confine this spread of this disease. for example, we need significantly more testing kits across america. they should be -- we should be rushing the supply of those all over the country. it's gotten better. it's gotten better, but look at what's happening here. you have nurses showing up wearing garbage bags over their bodies as protection. i mean, we need to get them the help they need right away. and we know there's going to be more need for not just ventilators, but icu units, more need for beds, et cetera. we should be telling the american people the truth. they're strong. they'll get through it. they've never let their country down. never, ever, ever. >> it's a tough time for you. you've been around government a long time. you know there's a fine line

between constructive criticism and back seat driving that can be disruptive. what do you believe that line is for you when it comes to critiquing president trump right now? >> i think the line for me is, again, to tell the truth. for example, i didn't believe it to be criticism, just great-for ward response. i argued several weeks ago we should be using the defense production act. it was there. i've been arguing for it for some time. if i see something that's not happening, i think it's my obligation to step and up say, this is what we should be doing. rather than -- look, the coronavirus is not the president's fault, but the slow response, the failure to get going right away, the inability to do the things that needed to be done quickly, they are things that are -- they can't continue. we're going to go through another phase of this. we have to be ahead of the curve, not behind the curve, like we were last time. >> your campaign put out, in a critique of president trump, says if he doesn't do these

things, he could cost lives. do you think there's already -- do you think there is blood on the president's hands, considering the slow response? or is that too harsh of a criticism? >> i think that's a little too harsh. i think what's happening is the failure to -- as i watched a prelim to your show where someone said that -- made the phrase, used the phrase that the president just thinks out loud. he should stop thinking out loud and start thinking deeply. he should start listening to the scientists before he speaks. he should listen to the health experts. he should listen to his economists. for example, the united states congress passed a significant piece of legislation to help deal with the incredible financial crunch that's going to affect working families and all families, the whole economy. so we should be right now thinking about, how do we get those small business loans out the door? right now, banks, that's not the strong point of banks, focusing on getting small business loans out.

you should be focusing on making sure we're in a situation where we're able to see to it that unemployment benefits can get to people. what's the irs doing to get those $1,200 checks to people? et cetera. that's where the focus should be and it should be laser focus. >> would you lift sanctions on iran temporarily during this pandemic? >> i don't have enough information about the situation in iran right now. and i'm not sure there's any evidence that -- there's a lot of speculation from my foreign policy team that they're in real trouble and they're lying. but i would need more information to make that judgment. i don't have the national security information available. >> a couple of things about the campaign itself. number one, do you think we have to conduct an all male ballot election come the fall given the likelihood this comes back in the fall? >> we may get there, chuck. i don't want to go that far ahead but that is possible. i think we should be looking to all mail ballots across the

board to begin with because it's an easier way for people to vote. whether or not that's required across the board in all 50 states and territories, i'm not sure yet. i think we can make that, but we should be beginning to plan that in each of our states. i think you have -- anyway, there's some legislation in the senate that suggests that. i think it's worth looking at quickly. >> is there a point where bernie sanders is no longer playing a productive role in this democratic primary? >- >> well, look, bernie sanders has poured his heart and soul into this campaign. he's moved the ball along on a number of issues that relate to what government's responsibilities are. and i think it's up to bernie to make the judgment whether or not he should stay in the race or not stay in the race. it's not my judgment to make for him. i think he's had a real impact. he's brought a lot of people into the process that weren't in it before. so i think it's a tough decision for bernie to make.

>> you had said you hoped to improve your job rating, your rating, of the president. what do you make of the fact that the president's job rating has ump bumped up during this crisis? >> i think that's a typical american response. in every single crisis we've had that i've been around, going back to jimmy carter and the hostages all the way through to this moment, president's ratings have always gone up in a crisis. but that old expression, the proof is going to be in eating the pudding. what's it going to look like? i hope we're in a situation going into the fall where this is under control, we've done alt-right things, things are beginning to move, the president is listening to the scientists as i said. stopping the personal attacks on people who disagree with him and get -- let's get away from the childishness of this and focus on the problem. >> you feel a little bit frustrated and powerless right now? >> no, you know, it's interesting. you know, we have a makeshift

studio here in my basement, i guess like you're doing it now as well. but the point is that i was surprised to find out just the events we did this past week, i mean, beginning last monday, over 20 million people have viewed them and listened. so, you know, i guess it's just a different way of learning how to try to communicate with people, what you're concerned about, what you would do if you're in the president's situation. >> all right. >> there's some frustration. >> mr. vice president, from your home studio, i can imagine, especially somebody who loves to hug his grandkids, i'm sure that's very frustrating as well. >> the grandkids still come over and stand outside the house and wave. >> yes. >> thank you. >> nice, excellent to hear. thank you. when we come back, a week of mixed messages from president trump. mixed messageseherom president trump. panel is next. your mission:

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♪ my whole body's made of glitter ♪ ♪ and i'll throw it in your face ♪ ah, what a troll. tiny and daddy out. welcome back. the panel is with us. from some secure and healthy undisclosed locations. some of them are disclosed. msnbc andrea mitchell, eugene robinson, carol lee, and hugh hewitt, host on the salem radio network. andrea mitchell, let me start with you. here's what i learned i think from dr. birx. number one, things are going to get worse in every metro area in the country, so hunker down. number two, i'm not prepared to tell you my recommendations yet, but clearly new recommendations are coming. number three, go find as many

ventilators as you can, because we're struggling. andrea, what did you hear? >> exactly that. first of all, her recommendations clearly and dr. fauci's are going to be, you can't do this county by county approach. you can't mitigate this by ending it on tuesday after the 15 days. it has to be extended. whether the president goes along with that remains to be seen. he did back down after a full day of confusion yesterday on whether or not he could have an enforced quarantine around the tristate area around new york. it was only after governor cuomo went on tv and said this would be the federal government declaring war against the states that he finally backed down and we saw vice president pence rushing into the white house unexpectedly, not scheduled, last night. and then, of course, the cdc put out what it is empowered to do, which is an emergency health declarati declaration, but a travel warning, not a firm order. that said, i also think that what we're going to see is a reluctance to take -- to have fema take control.

you twice asked dr. birx whether or not the government should be doing this and rationalizing it. we were reading about huge conflicts between the cdc and fe fema. it's not being communicated well and someone has to take charge and distribute it so you don't have a florida governor like ron desantis who's an ally of the president and whose phone call with him yesterday probably precipitated that emergency quarantine speculation, stop the new yorkers from coming, when it was this governor who let spring breakers fill the beaches. >> carol lee, it does seem as if the quarantine back and forth yesterday and this issue about who takes the lead in finding ventilators, this is -- this whatever you want to call it, choke point, whatever it is between the states and the feds, we haven't unclogged that choke point yet. >> no, and it was clear from your interview with dr. birks that they don't have an answer to this problem yet. and you've heard from a number of governors, governor whitmer

just said to you and governor cuomo has been saying this every day, that they need -- they want the federal government to step in, to somehow kind of regulate this process, because they're all competing against each other and it's causing a lot of problems. you've seen governor cuomo specifically say that if that doesn't happen, then maybe the states will try to come together and figure out their own way to alleviate this problem. but there is -- to ask for help from the federal government, and we could see this be the issue, like ventilators were in the past week, where the president finally moved on that, this could wind up being the thing in this coming week that he finally moves on. >> gene robinson, you want to chime in? >> well, i -- chuck, it seems to me that, you know, what vice president pence and dr. birx and dr. fauci and the task force is doing, the federal task force, is vitally important. it's been a little bumpy

getting -- really taking off. but the states really need what the task force is doing. on the other hand, what the president is doing seems to me to be increasingly irrelevant and counterproductive. i mean, these sort of pronouncements that are then taken back or just fall away. so whether he wants to open everything up again or not on tuesday, it's kind of irrelevant. the governors aren't going to do that. i think americans realize, they have by now a pretty deep understanding of what's going on, what's at stake, what they should do. i don't think anybody is raring to get out there again on wednesday. >> hugh hewitt, this is the time when i think someone like you or others would be saying, you know, the president needs to go get a retired general, general russell honore ran in the gulf n

take-charge personality when it comes to this procurement issue. >> i think the take-charge personality is the president. i'm very impressed with the president, eugene isn't. i'm very impressed with andrew cuomo. i'm very impressed with gavin newsom. i'm very impressed with mike dewine. the people i'm not impressed with i'm not going to spend time slamming. i'm impressed with people exhibiting strong leadership. they're not always going to be right. the person i'm most impressed with, benny gantz. he is the israeli political leader who stepped back and laid down his ambitions to serve the common good in israel and joined benjamin netanyahu in a government. i think that's the moment we're in, where people have to lay aside their partisan differences and work. vice president biden really impressed me by modeling the best answer most people can give, "i don't have the information to answer the question you asked." i thought, way to go, mr. vice president. if you get asked a question,

don't shoot from the hip. i think most people need to hear that message. >> kale lee? >> one of the things we've seen, talking to administration officials and other people around the president, is that they're really worried that this push for him to open the economy up again is going to totally backfire on him, backfire on the country, backfire on him politically. and then the other thing they want to do, we should keep an eye on this, this 15-day deadline is coming up. there's people around the president who are really urging him not to set another sort of deadline like that. he mentioned easter. you saw them try to walk that back. the vice president and others saying that's aspirational. and now, you know, he has to either say, we're extending these measures that he had put into place 15 days ago or modifying them. whatever he does, his advisers do not want him to set another date. >> i tell you, the straightest talk you could give to americans is probably not to set a date,

because all of us then would tell you what that means. that we're going to be here awhile. anyway, i have to take a break. when we come back, democrats and republicans are actually experiencing the coronavirus outbreak right now differently and how that plays a role in how they judge the government's response. stick around. ta-da! did you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? i should get a quote. do it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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welcome back. "data download" time. believe it or not, even the coronavirus has a political component. as covid-19 hits some places harder than others, the current spikes in densely populated urban centers on the coast mean it the coast means it's now hitting blue areas a lot harder than red ones. as of friday 77% of confirmed cases were in counties that voted for hillary clinton in 2016. 19% were in counties that voted for president trump. 4% are unclear. put it another way, 81% of clinton counties had at least 1 case, while only 50% of trump counties krcrepancies in fir firsthand experience and showing up in polling data. a survey by a leading survey insights company finds 65% of democrats believe the federal government is doing too little to protect life during this pandemic. compared with only 24% of republicans who feel the same way. of course, democrats are always a bit more critical of president trump. but it will be interesting to see how these numbers shift as

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even that that pet-camera thingy. [ whines ] can your internet do that? xfinity xfi can because it's... ...simple, easy, awesome. [ barking ] welcome back. it has been interesting to watch this campaign sort of go on hiatus. you heard the vice president there talk about the improving poll numbers for president

trump. hugh hewitt, the fox poll is a a lot like a lot of the other polls i've seen this week, you see two things happening at the same time. the president's numbers going up, highest job approval, tied the highest job approval rating he's ever had in that fox poll at 48%. but trails biden by nine points in the head to head. and that one. who should feel better about which poll number, hugh hewitt, joe biden or donald trump? >> i think president trump will look at the "washington post" poll this morning and be very, very happy but i also don't think anyone should focus on the polls. it's going to change so dramatically. america has a hell of a kick, chuck, you know that, eric lidell in the "chariots of fire" movie, we're just gearing up. if the country does what i think it's doing, this army of resp d responders, surge of helpfuln s helpfulness, think the president will benefit from that because the country's coming together to fight this invisible enemy. >> gene robinson? >> yeah, i want to agree with hugh hewitt. i do think the country is

gearing up in a very important way, you know, the old bible verse, weeping may endure for a night but joy cometh in the morning. i think we are -- we must realize that there is a joyful morning on the other side of this. and i think that the country once it gets in gear i think will hopefully do better than it now looks to contain this epidemic. >> and -- >> andrea? >> yeah, chuck, i think that that is true, that the president is benefiting for all the twists and turns and what may seem like he's thinking out loud too much, he is doing things like going to the ship yesterday and that was a totally unnecessary photo op, but he has that power of incumbency and i think the people need that reassurance and people are seeing it and i think it's going to continue to rise and it is frustration, frustrating for joe biden because coming from his basement is a lot harder to do. >> you know, carol lee, jimmy

carter ran a rose garden strategy. it was known at the time. william mckinley ran a front porch strategy back in 1896. joe biden is like the mckinley campaign in '96, donald trump like carter here. everybody running their own front porch campaign with the rest of the public watching. >> yeah, i mean, chuck, the part of the president's problem, though, is that his whole campaign argument that the economy was humming -- was doing really well, just evaporated almost overnight and i spoke with people around the president this past week who said that it's almost as if the first three years just don't even matter. everything that happened then is just -- won't matter because it all comes down to how he responds to this. one of the challenges that they're having right now is you have a president who hasn't really figured out what kind of leader he wants to be, does he want to be the wartime president or be donald trump? we saw a lot of donald trump in the last couple days in terms of his combativeness, pushing bark, saying things that weren't necessarily true.

where he goes from there, whether they can pull him back, try to get him to do what they would like him to do which is be more presidential will really hinge on how this plays out for him politically lp. >> hugh hewitt, what is the bigger danger there? the president picking silly fights with governors that look off-key or the president not feeding his base these sort of pugilistic nature that they came -- that they've grown to love? right, like i guess that -- the president's head that's what he's concerned about. >> the biggest danger is not to take the danger as seriously as he appears to be taking it, not to step back from the podium, go out there every night, of course, vice president pence is a great balance, but he has to continue to be the very strong presence in the pressroom that he's been because america, at this time, as after 9/11, as after pearl harbor, this is an existential crisis for the world. we have to lead not just america, the world. his bigger danger is stepping

back. he's got to lean into it, he's been doing that. i'm happy about it. >> gene robinson, very quickly. >> this time i'm going to disagree with my friend, hugh. i think the president does need to step back from the podium. i think his appearances should be less frequent and briefer and less rambling. he -- let the scientists do it every day. let vice president do it. president doesn't need to do that every day. >> you guys were a terrific panel. i have to stop you, but you guys were as well behaved as you can be on these remote settings. thank you very much. thank you for your patience, guys, and for the social distances. that's all we have for today. thank you for watching out there. hope you're staying healthy. i hope you're practicing this social distancing. we're all going to get through this. the sooner the better, right? we're going to leave you with the new nightly light show at the empire state building. it's designed to lift the spirits of people sheltering if place. we will be back next week, no matter where we have to come from because if it's sunday,

it's "meet the press." e1 well, hey there. i'm joshua johnson. good to be with you today from msnbc headquarters in new york. welcome to a special hour of msnbc live. the coronavirus pandemic across america. the u.s. has more than 131,000 confirmed cases of covid-19 and nearly 2,300 deaths. but it's really easy for numbers that big to kind of lose their meaning. it's just a big statistic rather than thousands of individual lives that are shaken or taken by this virus. in this hour, we want to humanize those numbers with a deeper look at the cities and