certainly we don't want -- everyone can agree that preparedness now and supplying these hospitals and the staff, the brave staff going to work every day, it's absolutely critical. i'm seeing it with my own eyes, they don't have enough. they're conserving and that's a risk to them. so, yes, it's all -- there's probably truth in many aspects of it. >> sheri, i want to ask you about de souza, i want to know how she's doing this week, you were with her last monday. she said, i have so many different fears, the patient volume increases at the certain space, she's concerned the emergency room will be out of space by next week thux week. if many patients are desperately ill and need life support, she ♪ worries about having to choose between them.

>> i should say that ventilator hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. grim milestone reached today as triaj rationing is something deaths from coronavirus that many places are talking about, that's happening in surpassed those in the attacks italy. horrible stories of not having of 9/11. enough ventilators and critical the coronavirus death toll, the care space and actually number confirmed infections in implementing rationing to my the u.s. is now over 180,000. knowledge, it's very much in the planning or preparing stage here. concerns shift to how better protect the men and women in you know, there will some this battle, doctors, nurses and decisions being made about medical professionals "the new conserving those resources. the farthest i know the triggers york times" reports on their plight. being pulled haven't exactly quote, the coronavirus pandemic which has infected more than happened yet on an official level. 30,000 people in new york city you know the emergency room is is beginning to take a toll on busier this week, absolutely, those who are most needed to and dr. de souza's colleagues combat it. the doctors, the nurses and other workers at hospitals and are trying to force her to take a little bit of break every once clinics. in. in a while. emergency rooms and intensive these people are -- yeah, it's care units, typically decision so tough and they're so dedicated. passionate medical professionals they do have to pace themselves. are feeling panicked as this is a marathon. it really is. increasing numbers of colleagues >> it really is.

i want to add to our are getting. one doctor at a major new york city hospital described it as a conversation, my colleague, a story that broke today, first petri dish, where more than 20 broken by the san francisco chronicle that reported on an on workers had fallen sick. extraordinary play from the two nourses in city hospitals captain of an aircraft carrier have died, quote, i feel like with more than 100 sailors we're all just being sent to onboard infected with slaughter, said thomas riley, a coronavirus. the captain begging in a nurse at jacobi medical center four-page letter to senior in the bronx, who has contracted military leaders for relief and resources in the situation that the virus, along with his he says is rapidly deteriorating. we're not at war, sailors do not husband. being forced to make life and death decisions. wall street journal, with need to die. if we don't act now, we are ventilators in short supply across new york city, perts and failing to properly take care of leaders at nyulangone hospital our most trusted asset -- our sailors. courtney, what do you know about this really sad, but perhaps not how to allocate ventilators with unsurprising development? more critically injured >> yeah, i mean, nicolle, we patients. the warning last night from new york governor andrew cuomo in an know the uss theodore roosevelt, interview with our colleague lawrence o'donnell. they reported their first coronavirus last week. >> people think, well, new york, as soon as they tested positive that's new york. they flew them off the ship and there's nothing unique about new then they tried to do as much

york here. there's nothing unique about new contact testing. the reality is, these ships are yorkers' immune system. very tight quarter, nearly there's no american who's immune from this virus. impossible to do all of the all you're seeing in new york contact testing and to scrub because of the density the every location such that you intensity of the place the virus won't have more of an outbreak. well, that's what we saw in communicates faster, transfer pretty quick succession, the numbers increased and increase. fasters, you'll see all this we should expect that it should across the country, this is like a fire through dry grass with a continue to cogo up. strong wind behind it. the navy, they brought the ship this virus communicates like into guam, into port, they're nothing else we have seen. now testing every sailor onboard, but the captain's plea, really, new york's just the test case for this. one of the things that stood out we're in the canary in the coal to me was the fact that he said mine. i say to my colleague, governors that the testing is not actually across the country, watch what's working, that in fact the happening here because it's testing every sailor is not coming to you. the only question is, when? effective because some of them are testing negative, only to >> the crisis facing healthcare come forward one, two days later workers on the front line is presenting symptoms, when you're where we start today with dr. in a situation where people are patel and "the new york times" in such tight quarters you have the vast majority of those reporter sharon. sailors are sleeping in rooms dr. patel, take us through not

with multiple other sailors in just the protective gear that's required, not just the expertise there. it's impossible to have a quarantine situation. the captain was pleading with and the training required, but the navy to bring some of the take me through the emotional toll that treating patients and more of the sailors off to have more isolation. patel, let me g treating the volume of patients today and what's expected is taking on our healthcare professionals? >> thanks so much, nicolle, for the last wordyou, we're putting a light on that issue. still learning about who's most i'd be lying to you if i said it susceptible to becoming very, very sick, what we once thought didn't affect me personally. about young, healthy people what i see personally and in my being immuned or safe is not colleagues it's the same thing over and over, this feeling of true, how important is to surge helplessness not only for medical resources these sailors yourself, i think most healthcare workers have gotten quickly. >> it's incredibly important. over it. but this feeling of helplessness this is happening in other when you have to admit patients crowded spaces -- like james, and they can't have any visitors and you know especially when one the cruise ship, absolutely out of every three or four have to go into an intensive care nicolle. these are americans who stood up unit they might die and they'll to defend all of us and it feels have nobody there to hold their like we have the ability to hand or say good-bye to them and actually take care of them, so that does weigh on you and you're 100% correct we need to

volume, you mentioned volume the do this now and we also do need sheer number of people that to think about other spaces like we're seeing and admitting and this in other parts of the then are kind of going through country where this exact the system so to speak is unlike scenario is happening right now. >> while i have you, i think a lot of people are confused about what they should to do to a anything anyone of us has seen before. protect themselves. are we supposed to be wearing it's incredible, constant and in medical school we used to joke, masks is it safe to go to we could go 24 hours without grocery stores? going to the bathroom, that's >> i'm laughing not because it's not a joke. people aren't eating, not sleeping. they come home and they're funny, this become the topic du haunted by what they did or didn't do during the day. your whether masks is an this is, again, not just important intervention. bottom line, stay home. doctors, i see it with charge that's the safest way to make nurses, with janitorial staff sure that you and all of us working in healthcare are who are being asked to clean the protected. but i will tell you that it does rooms as frequently as possible. it's everywhere. feel like our country is having said that, there's an experiencing a little tilt where emotional strength and i think we are interested in thinking some of the other folks have about using masks i'd say when been covering it quite nicely, we start to see a peak and there's a spiritual kind of thinking about returning to some

resilience that this too shall semblance of normal life, but as of today, keep the masks for pass and we should overcome. all of us go to bed and cry healthcare workers we need them every night, every night. and stay at home. bottom line. >> dr. patel, sher fink, thank >> i have been reading your reporting for a long time, sherry, i don't know if anything you. has struck me and sort of courtney. thank you all for starting us reduced me to tears in your off. when we come back -- donald reporting on the hospital in trump versus the governors, take two, this time over testing. brooklyn. take me what you have seen. which governors say their testing isn't where it needs to getting more intense, more of a be to keep their states safe. grind. >> it is, unfortunately, and and cracks in donald trump's what dr. patel said is right, they're just continuing to work, base. will more follow? donald trump's problem with what's happened last week i spent time in the emergency room women, especially powerful women and then sort of followed who question his confidence. patients through, they had a brand-new reporting from "the new york times" about trump's tent where they are still war with women, the pandemic testing people, this week has version. all those stories coming up. shifted into more of that really you doing okay? very sick patients in the intensive care unit, so as time

goes on, as the numbers of people get sick and then, of course, you get sick, there's an incubation period, you get sick and for those unlikely proportion of people who get critically ill that's what the hospitals are dealing with now, more and more people of those critically ill at the same time that's expanding the staffing, there are people getting sick, there's a shortage of staffing because of thatened the intensity level of the patients is higher, they'reprovide that where that pressure point is but they're going was there it wasn hospital as usual. it was like hospitals i have been in during a hurricane, yes. this moving thing never gets any easier. unfortunately this is a much more extended period of stress well, xfinity makes moving super easy. for our nation's hospitals. i can transfer my internet and tv service in about a minute.

wow, that is easy. >> you know, dr. patel, can you almost as easy as having those guys help you move. speak to that, about the duration, this is not as sherri we are those guys. that's you? said, this is not something the truck adds 10 pounds. that's going to hit us and then in the arms. ok. -yep. we begin our recovery, this will transfer your service online in a few easy steps. hit us harder and harder and now that's simple, easy, awesome. harder and harder until we reach xfinity makes moving easy with two-hour appointment windows, a peak, in new york experts say even on nights and weekends. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started. is still weeks away. can you talk about the physical toll, not being able to go to the bathroom, the shortage of personal protective gear which means they don't take a break because they don't want to take it off and perhaps contaminate something else and use up more equipment? but this is going to be our new normal for a long time. >> right, and nicolle, honestly, it's the inability to kind of have that date certain. i mean, it would be one thing, all right, snap our fingers and

june 1st things will go back to normal but the whole reason everybody's working literally 24/7 in some cases is because we have to get through this surge and then even when there's quote, decline or, you know, a lessening of the number of cases, it's still about having the people that you have in the hospital and trying to make sure that they go through the recovery period and, by the way, there are 78,000 volunteers coming into the state of new york ready to help but they all, you know -- all these people have to learn how to work in teams, so it's not just knowing how to do this with the personal equipment, it's also dealing with the uncertainty so you're absolutely right. >> can you talk about the models, i mean, it's sort of a grim way to process what we're all living through, the models on the death tolls on fellow americans that are expected to

die under the best social distancing practices and dr. birx said yesterday, if we're perfect, 200,000 people will die what does that -- how do we literally, we are one day begin to contemplate what that away if we don't get test kits from the cdc then we wouldn't be will look like? able to be tested in montana. how many people will get sick we've gone, time and time again, for 200,000 people to die? to the private side of this. >> for 200,000 people to die we the private market, in where the private market is telling us that it's the national resource know that we have to have, you that are then taking our orders apart. we don't have enough supplies to know, millions who at least have the virus and of that percentage do the testing. that will get sick and we know >> right, tony, you can it if already that if one out of every you want, but i haven't heard three hospitalized people ends about testing in weeks. up in the icu all those things we've tested more now than any just increase your chance of nation in the world. we've got these great tests, and death and candidly, nicolle, we come out with another one that's -- we're seeing a lot of tomorrow where, you know it's people coming into the clinics and the emergency rooms who almost instantaneous testing. really don't need to be there but i haven't heard about te but that unfortunately is adding to the numbers that are kind of testing being a problem. coming through the system. >> the nation's lack of testing

so 200,000 to die means that -- is now well documented. we spoke yesterday about how the country and the trump if you're going backwards that's administration's slow response millions of americans affected by this in some way, keep also at first resulted in a, quote, in mind, we haven't done the lost month of fighting the type of testing -- you heard the virus. this morning, we heard from two governor of montana talk about other governors, one a how they're running out of tests republican, two republicans, in a day so we haven't in still available. certain hotspots like new >> we're not quite sure when this thing is going to peak and, orleans and like other areas, i have been tracking cities and you know, part of this is driven testing, we haven't done by the that is correct we don't anywhere near enough testing to be certain about these numbers, have widespread testing. and that is not unique to ohio, so all these models, the data is with have seen that throughout the country. as good as the data coming in. that's been a real challenge. >> i know they've taken some boston, we may be seeing some steps to create new tests, but progress. in new orleans, we're seeing they're not actually produced numbers that are very troubling. and distributed out to the >> sheri, your reporting and the reporting of your colleagues in states. so it's an aspirational thing the "the new york times" tells and they have taken they've got the story of the plight of the healthcare workers in such vivid some new things in the works. terms, i wonder if you've been >> i'm joined now for this able to uncover through your reporting where the disconnect conversation, white house

reporter for the associated press jonathan lamiere and is, why there could be a debate between the white house and some claire mccaskill. governors, mostly democratic lot of trump's public attacks governors, and people who are leading states where some of the have been only democratic hotspots are now, about what's governors and how fabulous the needed, about the numbers of testing is. the testing is not fabulous. ventilators, about the amounts this is no longer a red/blue of protective gears? trump/nontrump divide that he i mean, i'm not saying it's easy can exploits. to tell their stories. these are governors -- but the information -- if doctors and nurses are willing to talk about what they need, >> there's a divide parts of the where do you think the breakdown country that have been impact is for them to get it? >> i mean, it's hard, right, you bid this. the science points to the idea that's going to change. got one thing the projection the on the tests it's national modeling, every expert who's problem. state governors and state houses participating in those modeling from coast to coast have gone to exercises say, it's a model, it's an assumption, certainly we the white house we need better don't want to be not prepared equipment. governor cuomo the focus has for some of the more worst case been on ventilators, respirators scenarios. of course, as people change

their behaviors, social and masks for workers in the distancing the numbers will decrease andlag, too, so you still see the hospitals. the other focus is on testing. numbers going up for a while there's a belief, "the new york before those, you know, measures show themselves at the hospitals times," had there been more because, again, that time lag adequate testing early on the between infection and getting united states' response to this sick and then getting critically would be very different. from the white house, an effort ill, so that's one thing there's to keep the illness on the uncertainty, there are a range governors. the president himself has said of models, and the other the the federal government should be playing a backup role, that was differences between the -- i partially why he was so slow to mean, i have to be honest, i'm enact the defense production act. governor inslee chided him, the not watching all press conference and you're not president needs to lead things, missing anything. >> what the states want and -- to be the star quarterback the tom brady if you will, not the you know, that extra factor even backup. but that's not how this when it leaves the federal president has conducted himself. stockpiles gets to a state, then the final point over the weekend, when we floated this gets down to local level, health idea of the quarantine of the new york area, he didn't consult level, then out to units and patients there's a time lag there. you may literally have things the governors of new york, new going out, entering a supply jersey and connecticut. according to governor cuomo,

chain and not feeling itssarily people were trying to leave the supply chain. so all of that is in the m loft city. the quarantine was unenforceable and the president backed away from the idea. factors and it will show he's trying to put the onus on governors to be the front lines of defense. only washington has the resources to fully handle, to manage this crisis. >> you know, claire, i used to ask trump insiders when he would say things about robert mueller being, you know, anti-trump or the mueller investigators being angry democrats, if he really believed what he said, because it was apparent there would come a point his delusions, or his lies, fabrications really did threaten their lives. my colleague rachel maddow has made night after night. i haven't heard anything about testing in weeks, a dangerous

delusion or an intentional lie. >> i assume by default it's a lie. he lies constantly to make himself look better in the moment without thinking about the consequences of that lie tomorrow, next week, next month, even next year. we also ought to pause for a moment and what leadership is at this moment. i'm really proud of is the leadership of our governors who are in states that trump carried, mike dewine is a good example, you know, ohio was a trump state. michigan is an example. montana went for donald trump by double digits and that governor is on the ballot in november. and he's in a call being polite but adamant about the facts in his state that's called leadership. that's called courage. i mean, with all due to respect to the leaders in very blue

states who are calling out the president that's political in their interest also, i know they're not doing that for that reason. my governor is refusing to issue a statewide order because he's trying to be trumpian in the way he handles this because this was a very big trump state. those governors who have been that bright light of i'm looking after my state and not of my politics it would be nice if we could get the president to emulate that kind of leadership. >> claire, i mean, you had to do just that, not with the president like donald trump when you were a senator, i mean, what does that start to look like? it goes both ways. you have to continue to see republicans, like governor hogan and governor dewine be tough on him and it would appear to continue to see democrats come

out of that closet if you will and not be driven by politics, is that the way forward, the way through? >> my state had the biggest increase last week, 600%. today, we had our biggest surge we had, over 300 new cases, we still don't don't have a statewide order for distancing for closing businesses and for closing schools. on top of that, my state like many of these other republican states didn't expand our medicaid. speaking of life support, our rural fingernails. it's really important for governors like my governor, the governor in florida, governor in tex texas, not worry about trump but worry about the people they respect. the doctors are begging these governors to introduce these orders. the business leaders in missouri, same thing is going on

in florida and in texas. why these governors won't step up in the light of reality they face, doing what's right, and quit worrying about whether or not trump is going to approve. >> i want to ask you about how trump sees himself. it's apparent from those briefings that he looks at himself in the polls that he likes, any awareness that compared to the other leaders, the governors who are stepping up, the people in red states like governor bullock, speaking truth to this president, governor cuomo out there day after day after day, everything trump isn't, honest, brave, full of facts and information. any sense to americans' feelings about governors he's doing very poorly politically? >> there's never been president more mindful of his media

coverage than this one. we have been carefully watching. what other governors are saying about him, there's a real fear, chill in state houses across the nation for fear of offending the president what impacts what kind of aid washington hands out to their state. he's gone toe to toe with the governor of michigan as just mentioned as one example. others have taken -- trying to take, approach of flattery. governor newsom has praised the federal response. the president himself closely watches this. particularly governor cuomo's briefings who become a staple on this channel. he's told people, he's impressed with how the governor has handled those briefings behe's also walking this fine line, this is all about the president's re-election as well. as we wrote today he's trying to

balance the idea of being wartime president, that calls for sacrifice, you can't embrace that moniker and ask the nation to rally around you if you play down the threat of the pandemic, one reason he backed off the easter deadline. he saw these images from the new york hospital. he was monitoring his re-election chances and realized how dangerous it would be for his november bid if things were to suddenly get back over the next few months. that's affected his tone as well. to this point, he's been uniquely trump. we're expecting him again to take the podium again with the hour and it will undoubtedly be at lo of cheerleading same the federal government's ahead of the game, they've got a handle on things. it passes the prolose, a denial of how bad things are and how bad they could get.

>> all right, after the break, nobody's going anywhere. on the other side of the big, a loud crack in trump's base of support. stay with us. t. stay with us (woman) somebody would ask her something and she would just walk right

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we here know this isn't right. you get the guys in the met ro row politan area, ask the firemen right now, asking those ambulance calls if it's right now, ask the doctors and nurses if it's right right now, they know it's not. they don't have the supplies they need. so don't give me the pillow guy doing a song and dance on the monday afternoon. get the stuff made and where it needs to go and gets the boots on the ground and treat it like the crisis this is the. >> if you have never heard of the bombastic mike francesca, he's a combative, divisive

legendary radio personality, he's a devoted trump supporter. going way back since before the 2016 election. stuck with him through the mueller investigation, the impeachment. last night his trademark anger was directed at this white house, at this president for not doing enough to protect the people of his city. when asked, could he be in a canary in the coal mine, in other words, if his handling of the coronavirus outbreak going to threaten his standing even among some members of his base? joining us our conversation is matt miller. jonathan lemire is still here. breakups among people outside of politics that begins a domino falling, these are kind of figures that donald trump seems to cherish, people who are celebrities, people aren't from the world of politics where he

always sort of sees himself as an outsider and this was a pretty high-profile, passionate break with this president over his handling of coronavirus as it now threatens new york city. >> absolutely, nicolle. what an influential figure mike francesca is in new york city. sports talk afternoon drive time. he was must listen every day in new york. he became a national figure. though he doesn't quite have the influence once he did, he represents -- he's someone who's been very loyal and supportive of the president and we are seeing throughout the mueller investigation and other trials and tribulations including impeachment, but this is different. for new yorkers, there's a of

course the days after 9/11, when first of all at the time, rudy giuliani did step to the forefront and felt appreciative of his leadership in the days afterwards. and there's a sense, though, it's cuomo has the better feel for the conditions of the people on the ground, first responders, firefighters, police officers, etms and of course those in the hospitals while the president seems disconnected and unconcerned. i do think there could be some -- some carry over here. francesca still has a national voice. those union members, emergency workers if they start turning on the president, that's something to monitor going forward. it could be very damaging for him. >> matt miller, i'm reluctant sometimes to pull any sort of connections to 9/11 but today we have passed that very sad and grim milestone of coronavirus

deaths, surpassing the 9/11 deaths and i think jonathan makes a really interesting point, some of the hardest hit at this point are members of the police department, fdny, the first responders, it's people that in donald trump's mind are very much available to him as sp supporters, botching this early phase, lost month, threatened their lives more than anything else that's been done. >> yeah, and i think as you see the crisis currently hitting new york spread around the country you'll see the response that we saw from mike francesca also spread around the country. if i were donald trump that would be the thing that would be the most worrisome, he was clearly responding to what he's seen on the ground, what he's seen on the ground new york isn't just going to stay in new york it's going to come to other communities. the reality distortion feel that

donald trump has been able to cast over the last three years, impeachment, he was able to bluster and spin his way through those and keep a good por portion of the country on his side, those issues weren't tangible to a lot of people. this is different. i think you'll hear it in at of americans' voices if you see a bodies piling up in your community, if you see doctors, you know, who are posting on social media that they are not able to get the protective equipment they're able to get, if you see friends and loved ones who are gravely ill and they can't go to the hospital because it's full, that's the kind of thing that's much more difficult for the president to spin away. he'll try. i think you're right, the people we got accustomed to new yorkers -- the people got accustomed to see the heroes of 9/11, on the front lines, they'll be the voices of people

around the country will turn on to judge how the leadership is handling this crisis. >> you know the other thing, matt miller, when i listened to francesca, he puts on the spot the entire trump base and the media world, the trump base would have you think that every other person covering the trump administration is somehow grasping at strauss to cover to talk about his lies, to talk about his abusive statements toward reporters, but when it comes from someone deep in the heart of the trump base who sees the world he and his supporters see the world put on notice the rest of people carrying water in the media ecosystem. >> i'd certainly hope so. what it going to do when this crisis comes to their states, i think it's a real unfortunate dynamic right now, lot of people thinking that this is a virus

that's hitting blue states, big cities, you see some of the president's defenders out saying, it's not that serious, the governor of florida not taking the kind of serious steps and response you'd hope. that crisis is -- this crisis is not going to be confined to blue states. the president's defenders around the country in places that are not big cities and states that the president won, senator mccaskill referred to some of those states in the last segment. if this crisis continues to burn across the country it gets very hard when the president is standing up there that's completely disconnected from reality. >> after the -- thank you, matt miller, for spending some time with us. after the break, donald trump's war on women. the coronavirus chapter. that's next. just because someone grows older does that mean they have to grow apart from their friends,

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and reaching that standard is what we're made for - veterans, in times of crisis, you've served our country. if you're a vet and you're experiencing any symptoms of the coronavirus, please contact your local va hospital. protecting your health is our greatest duty. we've had a big problem with the young, a woman governor from, you know who i'm talking about, from michigan -- and you should be saying congratulations instead of asking a really snarky question because i know exactly what you mean by that. well, you know, it's a sad thing. she's a sick puppy in my opinion. she really is. she's got a problem

with taking criticism from tough women. and the list of women that trump has attacked during the coronavirus crisis is growing. as "the new york times" points out, it's part of a very clear pattern. quote, as he confronts a pandemic, president trump's attention has also been directed at more familiar foes, those he feels are challenging him and particularly women. his attacks on women have stood out in part because they recall his dismissal of his 2016 democratic rival, hillary clinton, as a, quote, nasty woman, and of many powerful women who have challenged him ever science. my friend, claire mccaskill is back, also joining our conversation, eugene washington. we've also covered fredricka whitfield, his attacks on mika brzezinski, our colleague. what do you think gives with a time of pandemic not sochftenin any of his attacks, but in some ways, against some women, seeming to sharpen them. >> it does. look, i think this goes way back with president trump.

i think in part, this is just who he is. he is just who he is. he's challenged, he obviouslya a thing about speaker pelosi. and part of it is that she's a woman. there's some part of calculation, although i think it's a miscalculation. look at the gender gap in his ratings, and if he gets krae s in november, it's because of women. but on those briefings, he always calls on yamiche alcindor from npr, or from pbs, to have the fight. he seeks out the fight. on some level, he must think it's either good television or good politics. i think he's wrong on the good politics part, but he -- so part of it is involuntary and part of it, i think, is deliberate.

>> claire mccaskill? >> yeah, you know, let me just say, i've got a little bit of experience with this. having gone through a political career for decades, there is one common theme to men who irrationally attack women in positions of power. and what is always true is they are massively insecure. they are really threatened by women who are strong and smart. and there is one commonality that all the women he has, that he's attacked have. they are strong and they are smart. and they have overcome. you know, he was given millions of dollars by his father. you know, he was, you know, never really had to scratch and scrape and figure out how to achieve something when he wasn't supposed to, quote/unquote. from bone spurs to, you know, getting in a good school to

being given millions of dollars to be able to do his career, you compare and contrast that to a governor whitmer, or to a nancy pelosi or to yamiche or to the other african-american reporter who he's gone after in the briefing room, these are women who have had to fight and use their strength and they are not afraid of him. and he really doesn't do well with people who aren't afraid of him. >> and so it is pretty obvious to me what's going on. and i think as gene said, i think it's pretty obvious to most women in the country. it's not like we don't get this. and that's why if donald trump is not re-elected, it will be because the women of america have just had enough. we've just had enough. >> eugene, brian williams interviewed donald trump's likely opponent in november, joe biden. let's watch and talk about it on the other side.

>> if you are, indeed, the nominee, can you share with us at least how many names are on your potential grab bag list for vice president? and if any of the figures who have emerged from this coronavirus crisis, thinking specifically of, say, the governor of michigan, if any of those figures have lengthened the list? >> she didn't lengthen the list, she made the list in my mind two months ago. >> so, governor of michigan, not one of donald trump's favorites, eugene, but joe biden's got his eye on her. >> he sure does. and why wouldn't he? he said he would nominate a woman as vice president, an obviously competent, popular woman, being seen as handling a crisis very well. that sort of executive experience as a governor gets

under president trump's skin and, by the way, she's from michigan, a state that joe biden will need to win in november. and she could probably deliver. >> you know, claire, we've talked about so many of the women who have emerged as we've covered the trump story, val demings in florida, kamala harris as a candidate, and as a senator and her questioning of bill barr and others. it's almost an embarrassment of riches. is governor whitmer, would that be a smart choice for the vice president? should he be the nominee. >> he does have a lot of good women to choose from. and i am way too smart to start handicapping the women on the list for potential vice president. but he really can't go wrong with what i'm confident are the 10 or 11 or 15 women that he's got on that list. they all have excelled. they all have shown strength in difficult circumstances. they all are qualified to be

president of the united states. and they all will reinforce the fact that joe biden wants strong women around him, he's not interested in putting them down. >> claire mccaskill, i wish i could say it's nice to see your face, but we're struggling more than usual on the technological side. i trust you're in your beautiful kitchen. eugene, thank you so much. so nice to hear from you. thanks to everybody -- yes? >> no, i was just going to say, we could put claire on that list, too, if you wanted, but -- just saying. >> i'm happy in my kitchen! >> when my prompter went down today, i said, have claire anchor. claire can do everything! but most of all, thanks to everybody for watching, for sticking with us through all of it. we're going to stick with you through all of it, every step of the way. "mtp daily" with my colleague chuck todd starts now.

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