good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. millions of americans are bracing for the start of a week that the surgeon general says will be a pearl harbor or 9/11 in the battle against the coronavirus in hotspots like new york, michigan, and louisiana. nationally, the death toll is approaching 10,000 people, and 350,000 confirmed cases. new york is still the hardest hit area, despite glimmers of hope that hospitalizations were beginning to inch down over the weekend, the possible indication the curve is finally flattening. we're about to hear more from governor andrew cuomo moments from now. joining me first, though, is dr. zeke emanuel, vice provost of global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania, co-host of the upcoming podcast "making the call" and co-hosting a special edition of "last word with lawrence o'donnell" tonight at 10:00 eastern.

hey, zeke. thank you very much for being with us. first of all, explain the deadly warnings, the alarming warnings from the surgeon general, dr. adams, as well as from dr. fauci over the weekend -- pearl harbor, 9/11. why so alarming? >> well, again, the hospitalizations, the deaths, they are what we call a lagging indicator. they happen several weeks after you get a big rise in the number of cases. and so, you see this rise in the number of cases, and then you anticipate we're going to have a rise in the hospitalization and a rise in the number of people who unfortunately die from covid-19, and that's what they're anticipating. all of that is happening -- that happened already. that was put in place two or three weeks ago, before the strong recommendation on physical distancing and wearing masks and things like that happen subsequently. so, they're anticipating that, you know, the people who went

home from florida, to all parts of the country, taking covid-19 -- the coronavirus with them. that's probably going to show up and increase the hospitalization and increase the number of deaths this coming week. and so, we're going to go from 10,000 to a much higher number over the course of the week. that seems almost inevitable, and i think people are expecting such large increases that it will be a pretty big shock to the system. >> one of the things that really came out from last night's white house briefing was again the conflict between science, the medical team, and aspirations, the political side. the president of the united states, very frankly, where the president said repeatedly that he himself would even try this antimalarial drug, hydroxychloroquine, even despite -- >> yeah, so -- >> -- doctors previously warning that it had not been previously

tested. i just wanted to show, there was a moment there where the president at sunday's briefing was asked about it by kelly o'donnell -- are you playing doctor? and then stopped dr. fauci from answering the question. let me briefly play that first. >> can you also weigh in on this issue of hydroxychloroquine? what do you think about this and what -- >> didn't i just answer that question? >> i'm asking the doctor. >> 15 times. you don't have to answer the question. >> he's your medical expert, correct? >> he's answered that question 15 times. >> and our reporting backs up the fact, according to kristen welker and others on our team, that there was this big conflict on saturday, really a shouting match between peter navarro, a trade expert who claimed that he's a ph.d, therefore he knows what he's talking about, that the tests in france and elsewhere prove that this works as a therapy, against dr. fauci saying that those tests are not controlled tests and they're not medically sound for this

commonly used antimalaria drug to be used in this instance. >> well, first of all, i do think it's quite natural for the politicians to want a magic bullet, you know. all of us want an answer, some solution, and i think are grasping to chloroquine as the most advanced potential for that. on the other hand, a scientist and physician -- i'm an oncologist -- we've seen 100 times where you give a medication to someone, they do well, and you know, you think you've got the cure. the problem is, that patient was different from many other patients, and when you begin to give a lot of these drugs that work with one to lots of them, it turns out, eh, it was probably what we call in the field patient selection. you selected someone who was likely to do well anyway. they happened to get the drug and they did well, and you don't know whether it was the drug or they were just going to do well regardless. and i think what dr. fauci is

saying is, look, a lot of the data from china and from france, those were open label. people knew what they were giving. they were giving it to patients who they thought they could help and were probably going to do well regardless, and so we don't know that the drugs are actually working. the second thing i'll emphasize, andrea, is i've talked to a lot of virologists and experts on coronavirus, and almost everyone to a person says, look, this isn't going to be a single magic bullet, one drug is going to cure everything. we're probably going to need multidrug regiments, just like we have for hiv, where we have three drugs together to control the disease, or cancer, where we frequently have to treat with two, three, four drugs all at the same time. and coronavirus is probably going to be that. so, just having one drug -- it will lift people's hopes, but it won't be enough. and i think dr. fauci is trying to sort of tell people to be more sober, not paint an overly

rosy picture based on a few patients that aren't representative of the whole pool of people. the last thing i would say is i've talked to a large number of virologists, again, and one of the things they emphasize over and over is, when you give the drug, maybe as important as the drug itself, giving it too late in the course, you may not actually be able to reverse the condition. giving some drugs too early, they may not be ready to be effective. and a lot of the experts we're talking to is, we're probably going to need a drug that's good against the virus and good at modulating the immune system so we get the right immune response. so, i would, you know, i have known dr. fauci for 25 years. i think he is very, very rigorous in everything he recommends, and he doesn't overplay what we know. of course, we all hope for the best. that's what keeps us going day in and day out. but we can't paint an overly

rosy picture just to have everyone disappointed when biology talks. >> and dr. zeke, one quick question, and we may be interrupted briefly by governor cuomo. what is the risk that there are large numbers of people who are not symptomatic but actually are infected? >> well, it seems to be almost inevitably true, you know. we're testing people who have -- >> doctor, that said, we're going to have to leave it there because governor cuomo has started and we will join on the other side, we hope. thank you. >> number of deaths are up once again. number of people we lost, number of new yorkers. 4,758, which is up from 159, but which is effectively flat for two days. while none of this is good news,

the flattening, possible flattening of the curve is better than the increases that we have seen. new york is still far and away the most impacted state. new jersey is having real difficulty. and in speaking with governor murphy from new jersey -- and anything we can do together, we will -- michigan, also. california has leveled off. and louisiana is having a difficult time. so, they're in our thoughts and prayers. total number of hospitalizations are down. the icu admissions are down. and the daily intubations are down. those are all good signs. and again, would suggest a possible flattening of the curve. the number of discharged is down, but that reflects the

overall reduction in the numbers. big question that we're looking at now is, what is the curve? and we've been talking about cases increase, increase, increase, until they don't. when they stop increasing, then what happens? and the projection models have a number of alternatives. some suggest, basically, the curve goes up and then drops precipitously. some suggest there's a slight pause at the top. some suggest there's a longer pause at the top, which is effectively a plateau effect. or again, the straight up and straight down precipitous drop, which is the peak effect. no one can tell you which will occur. they say any one of the three options, you study other countries, you've had a

combination of the above. we are studying it as we have used the projection models from day one to determine actually what we do. how do we set policy and program by following the data? dr. malatras has been working on the numbers, working with the statisticians and the projection models and helping us incorporate that into an operational model. and jim, if you wanted to just take a moment and speak about the projection models here, please? >> great. thank you, governor. as the governor said, we have been looking at projection models from the beginning to determine the size and scope and severity, and the governor's mentioned this over his briefings. we've been working with many organizations and using their data, like imperial college, the institute for health metrics and evaluation, cornell, mckinsey and others. and some of the initial projections that we first saw at the beginning of this was at

least 100 -- up to 110,000 beds for covid patients alone. and the peak would come at the end of april. those were some of the earliest modeling from many organizations that it would be at the end of april, around 110,000 beds just for covid patients. there are other models, too, that we were tracking, one being lower at about 55,000 covid beds. but again, peaking at the end of april. we follow, now that we have a pretty robust data set to go by for the last several weeks, the bottom line there, the purple line is sort of where we are tracking today, which suggests it's a little lower. and the question was, what could you do to lower those initial projections from 110,000 and from 55,000? so, a lot of the activity was,

we saw what the statisticians and the folks looking at these models said it was going, so what activities and actions could you take to aggressively lower that overall number? and the answer really was -- and what the governor has been doing was aggressively enforce and enact social distancing to lower the overall number, and this number and the current data suggests that that is exactly what's happening. and it's not settled yet because we are going day by day, and the numbers, as the governor says, has changed a lot. over the time, based on what numbers come in. but this could suggest that we are, indeed, potentially at the apex or beginning to be at the apex at this moment. like the governor has said, there's been a range of models -- 7 days, 14 days, 21 days, 30 days. it looks like we're towards the earlier side of that time frame based on the current projections and modeling that we've been looking at.

>> great. thank you, jim. but you also see on these -- you see on this slide where we are now, right? and it can still go any way. we could still see an increase. so, it is hopeful, but it's also inconclusive, and it still depends on what we do, right? these models all have a co-efficient of what we do and how successful we are at social distancing, et cetera. and from our decision-making point of view, it doesn't really matter if we've hit the plateau or not, because you have to do the same thing. if we are plateauing, we are plateauing at a very high level and there's tremendous stress on the health care system. and to say to this health care system, which is at maximum capacity today, right?

this is a hospital system where we have our foot to the floor and the engine is at red line, and you can't go any faster, and by the way, you can't stay at red line for any period of time because the system will blow. and that's where we are. we are at red line. people can't work any harder. the staff can't work any harder. and staying at this level is problematic. and if we are plateauing, it's because social distancing is working, so we have to make sure the social distancing actually continues. on the relieving the pressure on the hospital system, which is unsustainable at this rate, we're continuing what we call our surge influx program, where we get all of the hospitals on the line on a daily basis. they're all doing inventories. they're all doing data sheets. they're all on the telephone. and we're shifting among the

hospitals ventilators, ppe equipment, who has gowns, who has masks, and that happens on a daily basis, that adjustment. also, to relieve pressure on the hospital system, the javits coming online is a very big deal. that is a relief valve for the entire downstate system. the 1,100 military personnel started to come in. 300 were sent to new york city public hospitals to help the new york city public hospital system, the h&h system, which has been under stress. the rest will be going to javits to bring that up and running to full capacity. that transition is happening now. that is a covid center now. it started as non-covid. it's now a covid center. the majority of the military personnel will be coming in tomorrow and the next day. but that javits center is going to be a major relief valve.

second, the united states navy ship "comfort," the original plan was that that would come in for non-covid people. the original plan was, it would also be a relief valve on the hospitals, but not for covid people, that it would take all of the non-covid patients, if you will, from the hospital system. that was the plan. as it turned out, there's not a lot of non-covid people in the hospital system, which is a separate story. it happens to be a good news story. a by-product of shutting everything down is you have fewer car accidents, crime rate is way down, fewer trauma cases, so there's not -- there is not a and ask him to population in shift the "comfort" from non-covid to covid.

then we would have javits and the ship "comfort" as a relief valve. that's 2,500 beds and 1,000 beds. that's 3,500 beds, which could serve as a relief valve for the whole downstate hospital system. that is the only way we sustain this level of intensity in the hospital system. and i understand what the original plan was with the "comfort," but i understand that there is no preordained strategy here. you have to feel it out day to day and you have to adjust with the facts, and we don't need the "comfort" for non-covid cases. we need it for covid. if we had those two facilities as a relief valve, that would make a significant difference. now, bringing online 3,500 beds is no small task.

northwell health is going to help us manage those, but they're going to be staffed by military personnel. only the military could bring in that many people that quickly with that logistical operation. and i want to thank dod very much for their cooperation, because god bless the u.s. military. we're fully aware of what they do to defend this nation, but this is a different application that we don't see every day, and they're doing an extraordinary job. so, i'll call the president. he has been helpful to new york in the past, and he's moved very quickly in the past. i'm going to ask him if he can make this adjustment for us, because it would be truly beneficial. we would feel much better knowing that we can sustain this pace if we can start to offload patients to these two

facilities. in any event, plateau, not plateau, we still have to extend the new york pause, because if that curve is turning, it's turning because the rate of infection is going down. one of the reasons the rate of infection is going down is because social distancing is working. we have to continue the social distancing. schools and nonessential businesses will stay closed until april 29th. i know that's a negative for many, many reasons. i know what it does to the economy. but as i said from day one, i'm not going to choose between public health and economic activity, because in either event, public health still demands that we stay on pause with businesses closed and schools closed. whether we've hit the apex or whether we haven't hit the apex,

you'd have to do the same thing. there's also a real danger in getting overconfident too quickly. this is an enemy that we have underestimated from day one, and we have paid the price dearly. while the numbers look like they may be turning, yay, it's over. no, it's not. and other places have made that mistake. hong kong has made that mistake. south korea has made that mistake. and we're not going to make that mistake. the weather is turning. people have been locked up. we've been talking about cabin fever. now it's a nice day. i'm going to get out. i'm going to go take a walk. now is not the time to do that. and frankly, there has been a laxness on social distancing, especially over this past weekend, that is just wholly unacceptable.

look. people are dying. people in the health care system are exposing themselves every day to tremendous risk walking into those emergency rooms. and then they have to go home to their family and wonder if they caught the virus and they're bringing it home to their family. if you don't -- if i can't convince you to show discipline for yourself, then show discipline for other people. if you get infected, you infect someone else, you go to an emergency room, you put a burden on all sorts of other people who you don't know and who, frankly, you don't have the right to burden with your irresponsibility. and people, especially in new york city, the level of activity

is up. partially the weather made it a nice day. i understand people have been locked up for a long time. but now is not the time to be lax, and it is a mistake. we all have a responsibility. we all have a role in this. we said that from day one. and we have to respect the role that we play, because the role that we play is a societal obligation. that's how i see it. i want local governments to enforce the social distancing rules. the local governments are charged with enforcement. i want them to enforce them. and i want to be, frankly, more aggressive on the enforcement, because all of the anecdotal evidence is people are violating it at a higher rate than before. so, we're going to increase the

potential maximum fine from $500 to $1,000. but it's not really about the fine. nobody wants the money. we want the compliance. we are serious. and again, if it's not about your life, you don't have the right to risk someone else's life, and you don't have the right, frankly, to take a health care staff and people who are literally putting their lives on the line and be cavalier or reckless with them. you just don't have the right. and we want to thank all of the people who are getting us through this every day, under very tough circumstances. and we see the illness rate among these essential workers and we know the sacrifice they're making, and we should respect it. it's that simple. you have the first responders who are out there. you have police officers who are out there, the transit workers who have to drive a bus and the

train every day, the health care workers who are just doing extraordinary work. so, let's respect them and let's help them. we're also going to set up a fund run by the department of health to assist the health care workers about expenses, costs, child care, et cetera. i want to thank blackstone for making the first contribution to that fund of $10 million to assist the first responders. i hope other individuals and corporations follow their lead. we're also very aware of the mental health aspect of this situation and the stress and the isolation that this has caused, and people are trying in their own way to grapple with what this means and what is the impact? how do you rationalize this situation? and the mental health aspect of it is very real.

headspace is going to partner with new york. they're an app. they're going to have content for new york and free membership for new york, so we thank them. but we also have an emotional support hotline. we have thousands of mental health professionals who have signed up to volunteer to provide mental health services. so we want people to make sure they know about that and it's available. i talk about perspective a lot. maybe, frankly, because partially i'm speaking to myself, and i had a good conversation with my daughters last night, kara and mckayla, who very often are wiser than i am and wiser than their years. it's very hard to see the number of deaths we're having. it's frightening. it's disturbing, that amount of loss. i'm the governor of new york. i see my job as preventing that

kind of disturbance and negativity and loss for the people of the state. perspective. you know, we like to think that we can control everything. we can't. we like to think that we can fix everything and fix all the problems for people. we can't. the undeniable truth here is that this virus is a deadly enemy, and we will lose, and we are losing people who are vulnerable to the virus. that can't be controlled. that can't be fixed. why? that's mother nature. that's a question only god can answer. but control what you can. do what you can. the challenge is to make sure

that we don't lose anyone who could have been saved if our health care system was operating fully. don't lose anyone who you could save. that is a legitimate, ambitious goal of government, and that we have done so far. that we have done so far. have we saved everyone? no. but have we lost everyone because we didn't have a bed or we didn't have a ventilator or we didn't have health care staff? no. the people we lost are the people we couldn't save, not for lack of trying and not for lack of doing everything that we could do as a society, not only as a government and as a health care system. to the extent we can find peace in that, it helps me, and we are

still new york tough, and new york tough means tough, but tough in a new york sense also means passionate. it means that we are unified. it means that we are loving. because if you're really tough, the really tough guys, they're tough enough to show love, and because we're smart, and that's how we're going to get through this. questions? >> drug trial of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine going? >> we're using -- we've allowed usage of the hydroxychloroquine with the azithromycin packs, pack, in hospitals at their discretion. the federal government is going to increase the supply to new york pharmacies. we had a 14-day limit on how

much you could buy because so many people were trying to buy it. if the federal government increases the supply to new york, which they say they're going to do, then we could lift the 14-day limit. there are a lot of people who rely on this, who were relying on it, people with lupus, et cetera. the tests in the hospital, they won't say that -- there's too short a period of time to get a scientific report. you know, hospital administrators, doctors want to give, have a significant data set before they give a formal opinion. anecdotally, you'll get suggestions that it has been effective, but we don't have any official data yet from a hospital or a quote/unquote study, which will take weeks, if not months, before you get an official study. is that a fair statement?

>> yes, sir. >> so, promising, but not conclusi conclusive, it sounds like. >> on which? >> on that type of treatment in hospitals. >> yeah. there has been anecdotal evidence that it is promising. that's why we're going ahead. doctors have to prescribe it. there are some people who have pre-existing conditions where it doesn't work or they're taking medication that's not consistent with this treatment. but anecdotally, it's been positive. we'll have a full test once they have a large enough sample and data set, jesse. but anecdotally, it's been positive. and if we get in an additional supply, we can -- which the federal government says they're going to send -- i'm going to mention it to the president, actually, when i call him this afternoon with the "comfort" -- going to make a note right now. if they increase the supply, we can lift the 14-day limit ban. >> governor, earlier today, there was the notion that the

city may be burying these covid bodies in a box in new york city. one, have you heard of that? and two, is there any way that the state can lend assistance for managing these bodies? and what do you think of that? >> i have heard nothing about that. i have heard a lot of wild rumors, but i have not heard anything about the city burying people in parks. >> would you support that? >> no. no. >> what plan do you have to manage these bodies? i know -- >> i didn't know that there was an issue. i haven't heard that there was an issue. has anybody heard that there's an issue? has the city raised any issue? we talked to new york city -- i talked to new york city yesterday. i have not heard that this is an issue. >> mayor bill de blasio this morning requested that the state release more ventilators from its stockpile to the city. to date, how many ventilators have come from the state's stockpile to the city? and have they asked for any more at this point? >> they have not asked for any that they have not gotten.

we're releasing 802. the city is basically responsible for the 11 health and hospital corporation hospitals, public hospitals. there are 11 health and hospital corporations. 11 health and hospitals hospitals in that system, and i spoke to the head of the system last night. i'm going to speak to -- he's going to be on a phone call at 1:00. dr. mitch katz. he had all the equipment he needed, and i'm going to speak to him again at 1:00. so, if they need anything, we'll get it to him. >> is the 802 combined? like, that's how many -- >> 802 for the downstate area. now, every hospital will say to you, i am running low on everything, because they are low on everything, right? when we do these daily surge and

flex discussions, there's no margin for error because we don't have any margin for error. we just don't have the supplies. the whole system is overcapacity. so, everybody is low on everything. and if they had a wish list, everybody would want, you know, a stockpile in a reserve in their own hospital. i get that. we don't have that luxury. i'm, you know, taking ventilators from one hospital on a daily basis, bringing them to another and then shifting them back and forth, so every hospital can get through this period. that's why i say it's unsustainable for us. so, we're doing that with ppe equipment, we're doing that with ventilators, we're doing that with patients. if we can systematically get patients out of the hospital system into javits and the comfort, then you can relieve pressure on the whole system. but the system is running at red

line, has been for days. this is the most intense management function that we have ever undertaken. so, it's not here. in this situation, it's not what they want, it's what they need. that's why i said, everybody would want -- i want to have 100 ventilators on reserve. i know. it's what you need. and that we're doing on a day-to-day basis. but everyone has what they need. there is no one who said, "i am out of ventilators, and i have a critical need" who hasn't gotten them. >> you're calling for increases in crackdowns on social distancing, but we're getting reports of funerals and weddings in orthodox jewish communities in rockland county and in brooklyn, still being attended by hundreds of people. >> then they should enforce the

rule, jesse. i don't care if you're orthodox jewish, catholic, muslim, i don't care what. it's not about religious observation. >> but is there anything you can do, state police or other resources to try to break these up? >> the state police want to enforce it, also, but a lot of local government -- it's a job of local government to enforce. i'm doubling the fine. it's my way of saying, this is serious! this is serious. what right do you have to act irresponsibly in a way that could get you sick or someone else sick, and then i have to send an ambulance to pick you up and bring you to an emergency room that's already overburdened, that doesn't have staff, doesn't have supplies, doesn't have ventilators, because you were reckless and irresponsible? you don't have that right. and i have to talk to these health care workers all day long. i talk to transit workers. i have talked to first responders who, truthfully,

nobody wants to put themselves in these situations. and i don't blame them. and they're doing it out of passion and commitment and public service. none of us has the right to be reckless in our own behavior, which compounds the problem we're dealing with. now is not the time to be playing frisbee with your friends in the park. it's just not. now is not the time to go to a funeral with 200 people. look, i'm living this with my own family. yes, i understand grieving and i understand how the religious services can help with the grieving process, and i understand how it's hard not to do that. but as a society, the risk is too great. enforce the law. the localities have the legal right and responsibility to

enforce the law. my doing the penalty, raising the penalty is my way of saying, do it! just do your job. >> -- available ventilators in new york are being used today? >> all of them. >> they're -- >> we're beyond capacity. >> what about the need for the stockpile? like, how much remains in the state's stockpile? >> we're beyond capacity. we're into the plan b, c, d, that we outlined, right? we are into using bipap machines instead of ventilators. we're into splitting ventilators, turning two into one with two sets of tubes. we are into all backup plans that we had. >> so, how many ventilators are still in the state stockpile, though, at this point? >> the stockpile -- i don't know. i can get you the number, but we are over capacity for the number

of ventilators in the whole system. we're using bipap machines. we're using splitting, et cetera. >> but that begs the question, why not, if there are still ventilators in the stockpile, why don't you send them to new york, to the city? >> no, we don't have anyone who says we need them now who doesn't have them. >> you just said they're overcapacity. >> they're using plan b, c, d, e. we can't give everyone a ventilator for every situation. we have 9,000 bipap machines, for example. we're using those and other machines. but we don't have anyone who says -- the 802 that we're sending today represents the number that people say they need now. i can tell you that. >> -- board elections, ten people have gotten sick and three have passed away. do you think they should still continue working processing petitions or counting petitions? >> we extended the deadline, the voting and filing deadline.

so i don't know what else legally that we could do than extend the deadline. you'd have to cancel elections, period, for the year, and i don't think we're in that position. we've extended the use of absentee ballots. >> governor, are portions of nursing homes being set aside to treat covid patients? >> and you've been listening to governor andrew cuomo saying that mayors and governors should enforce the law, that now is not the time to be playing frisbee with a friend in the park. it's just not. he is saying that there does seem to be a flattening of the curve. he's not sure whether it's a peak flattening or a longer peak or a plateau or a precipitous drop. with us, dr. zeke emanuel. what is the difference in the type of modeling new york is experiencing with several days of decreased hospitalizations, decreased intubations, and decreased mortality? >> it's a positive sign, and i

think as the governor correctly pointed out, it probably does suggest that the physical distancing started in new york is beginning to have its impact on the number of people infected, the number of people who get serious infections, and that's a good thing. it first of all shows that public health can work. it shows that physical distancing can have a positive impact on the disease trajectory, and i think equally, as the governor made clear, that doesn't mean we're out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination. we have to keep this up. i think, you know, most of the public health community thinks that, again, assuming the physical distancing stays in place -- people wash their hands and continue and wear masks out in public, that it won't be a prolonged plateau, but it will begin to come down closer to zero. but as the governor made clear, that requires the cooperation of the public, and it requires

people to persist in this effort for a lot longer than just a couple of weeks. and so, that's vitally important to relieve the enormous stress on the system. and i think you have to give governor cuomo credit, that he is trying to manage this very complex situation, juggle all the different hospitals and demands -- ventilators, icu beds, hospital beds, as well as keeping the public informed. i thought this was a very good example of a press conference with lots of information just being totally transparent about what they're seeing and how they're trying to navigate the balancing act. and frankly, it does appear that they are beginning to have some real success. it's too early to declare victory, and i think that's what he says -- we shouldn't take early success, you know, in the second or third inning to be, you know, we won the game in the ninth inning. and i think that's a very

important message, and i thought he was very, very clear about it. i have to say that, you know, as a person of the jewish faith, it is very disappointing to see the orthodox community to continue to have weddings and funerals where they're all coming together and spreading, potentially spreading the virus. we're about to have passover beginning wednesday night, and if they come together in big seders, as i know that the urge is there -- i feel that urge -- that will be a very dangerous situation. and if, you know, you look at israel, in israel, the covid-19 has affected the orthodox community because they have been refusing to do the physical distancing. and the mayor -- the governor's 100% right, everyone has to do it. this isn't for just a few of people who don't have religious holidays now. it's for everyone. it does mean the religious holidays will be different. easter will feel different to christian people. passover is going to feel very

different to jews. unfortunately, that's what we have to endure at this moment to be alive to celebrate next year. >> exactly right. thank you so much, zeke emanuel. well said. and in his briefing moments ago -- >> thank you. >> -- the new york governor, andrew cuomo, also said that the javits center in new york city will be certainly to handle the influx of covid-19 patients this week. he's asking president trump to also allow the "usns comfort" to handle covid-19 patients as well, which was not the original plan. together, that would make a total of 3,500 new hospital beds in new york city, the epicenter of the pandemic. the army corps of engineers is leading the expansion efforts. joining me now is its commanding general, lieutenant general todd sem semonite. kudos to you and your extraordinary teams. when you explained this, when i first saw it on "the rachel maddow show." tell us how you've been managing

to do this, not only step up the javits center and also dallas, louisiana, other large convention centers, but also giving plans out, prefab plans, if you will, for other communities, smaller communities, to put these pop-up hospitals together as well. >> so, andrea, thanks for having us on to be able to explain this. and before i get into answering your question, i just want to say that the thoughts and prayers of all of us in the department of defense go out to all of those families that are so affected by this virus. and we're just so proud to be able to work on this unbelievable team to try to mitigate the bed shortage. you talked about the plan. three weeks ago today, governor cuomo asked to be able to help mitigate the bed shortage. i kind of explain this as the three ss. the first "s" is we have to worry about the sites. in other words, where do the beds go? the second "s" is obviously the supplies, and you're very aware there's an awful lot of issues with supplies. and then that third "s" is really the staff. so, all three of those working together, you know, come to a

solution. so, when the governor asked us for help, instead of trying to figure out how to build a hospital in the middle of a field, we said, let's go into an existing facility. and we really are breaking these down into covid and non-covid, and at the same time, a contained space, like a hotel or a dormitory, or on the other hand, a convention center or a fieldhouse. so, then we came up with a standard design. and we knew coming in, this is such a complicated issue, we need a very, very simple solution. so, we took that standard design, and then we sent it out to our 43 different districts in the corps of engineers, and we said, go see the local mayor, go see the governor. what is best for them? what is their plan to be able to deal with the patients? and then how we in the corps can give them some technical solutions. and i think you hit a key point. this doesn't mean the corps of engineers has to necessarily do the work, but the more we can leverage that standard design and give a town, especially a

smaller town, a way of doing it, then they could actually contract a lot of this by their own. i'll give you some new numbers and just -- just in our summary over the weekend. but right now, we're building 15 different facilities. the total amount of beds is about 14,800 in those 15. and in the next 72 hours, we hope to be able to award about 18 more contracts with a rough order of magnitude of about 6,000. so, we continue to bring beds on. it's all 50 states and it's all the territories. >> and the military personnel are also moving into some of these facilities as well. we saw the president announce that as well. what about the equipment, the ventilators, the ppe? >> so, i pretty much stay in my lane of worrying about the beds. it really goes back to the local, the states, to be able to work with fema and to work with

hhs to be able to identify that requirement. dr. esper has made some decisions to deploy certain military units in certain installations. they will bring some of that equipment as well. but i would continue to say, i'd refer those questions back to either the state or local officials, because we're really focused on the bed shortage and getting the hospitals built. >> well, it's another tribute to you, your team. always ready, always there for us. thank you so much, general. thanks for taking a little bit of your time for us today. appreciate. >> andrea, you talked about the team here. >> go ahead. >> this really is everybody coming together. it's city, state, the federal government. the president has told all of us, whatever we need to do, you go all in, because this is that important for this country, and we're doing exactly that in the department of defense. >> thank you again. thank you very much, general. appreciate that. and that exactly proves a lot of the criticism has been that there isn't a general like

general put in charge of the disaster after katrina. why hasn't there been someone in charge, whether it's someone from fema or elsewhere put in charge? well, denial and dysfunction have been the two words of the day, words that are used by the "washington post" in a searing account of the failures of the trump administration to take covid-19 seriously as the virus made its way from china into the u.s. for more than two months, time was squandered, warnings ignored. president trump dismissing the virus as a hoax initially, only to lash out at the press and boast about his social media following. and to this day, insisting that every american has access to a test. joining me now is phil rucker, white house bureau chief for the "washington post," msnbc political analyst and part of the team, the "post" team with ashley parker and others who put together this extraordinary 70,000-word piece, i think, over the weekend. let's talk about this, phil, because the president is still resisting, despite pressure, and

we now see part of your reporting was, and the republican polling, that there were a number of people in red states early on who didn't heed the warnings to socially distance because they believed the president's false comments. >> yeah, andrea. the reporting is extraordinary. by the way, i was not part of that team, but i'm very proud of my colleagues who were. but they found that there was dysfunction and denial going back 70 days. and it wasn't just from the president. it was throughout the federal government, although it was exacerbated by the president's own leadership failing and by his reluctance to believe what the experts were telling him, his reluctance to understand and appreciate the warnings that were coming to his desk in the presidential daily brief of intelligence. and it created failures in the testing system, but also failures in getting this country prepared and understanding what was happening in china and later in other countries, including italy, so that we could avert the sort of catastrophe we see playing out right now in new york.

>> phil, kristen welker and carol lee, your fellow white house correspondents, have confirmed the reporting from jonathan swan over the weekend of this fight, this argument between reporting of jonathan swann over the week between the fight by peter navarro and dr. fauci and the medical team as to whether hydroxychloroquine is federally tested not just anecdotally efficacious but whether it's scientifically proved and tested? >> yeah, andrea, this is a fixation of president of the united states trump for the last couple of days. he's really looking for some sort of magical solution that could cure people and prevent the death toll that is expected by the experts. and he's wanting the fda and others in the medical profession to endorse this drug that he believes based on the anecdote

evidence presented by his friends as well as peter navarro, one of the top white house advisers that it can work. of course, the science has shown that it's not tested by the fda and dr. fauci has been days agreeing with president trump. it was interesting when jeremy diamond, a cnn reporter, actually asked for dr. fauci to give his medical opinion, his expert take on the drug. mr. trump shut off the question and said you do not have to answer it. he scolded the reporter for even asking it and fauci never gave his opinion. >> silences the medical expert who has been a hero throughout all of this. thank you so much, phil. >> thank you, andrea. u.s. surgeon general vice admiral jerome adams on "meet the press" issued a dire warning to americans. >> next week is going to be our

pearl harbor moment. it's going to be our 9/11 moment. it's going to be the hardest moment for many americans in their entire lives. >> joining us now is john thiel, he's a 9/11 responder, he was part of the construction crews. he's an advocate and fought to get the 9/11 victims compensation fund extended for first responders. he's now fighting his battle with coronavirus. it's good to see you, we asked toer interview with jon stewart when it was passing legislation. how are you feeling, first of ail? >> well, thank you for having me. and i hope that everyone at msnbc is protecting themselves. i'm on day 14 of the covid-19 virus. i'm feeling better. i don't feel 100% yet, but i think i'm past the worse. i'm not going to lie to you, andrea, i was scared. this virus with pneumonia kicked my butt.

and nothing really scares me but this, you know, this virus doesn't discriminate, i don't care if you're republican or democrat, black or white, tall, short, skinny or fat. you know, you got to heed the advice the experts. those eight states that don't have the social distancing, you know, that's like adding a peeing second in the public pool. we're eventually going to get ourselves sick again. i went through this, i don't want to go through it again. so i sohope that everybody take this serious. just bumping it down, those who are sick and who have died, i pray for everybody and their families. >> and it occurs to me that some of your 9/11 sponsors, those working on the pile those from the fndy and others already very compromised in termsch their pulmonary illness and disease. in addition to cancer, of course. >> yeah. so many 9/11 --

>> -- doing so well. >> so many have contracted the disease right now. so many are fighting for their lives right now and we've lost a handful of 9/11 heros to this illness. you know, everybody can do their part. you know, we keep doctors and nurses are the front line, i might have been sick for the last 2 1/2 weeks and feel like i was taken out of the game but we've been sending food to local hospitals and police officers and now i'm working with michael bearish, we're going to donate 15,000 masks to fdny. we're doing our part. to make sure everyone across our country are taken care of. and everybody has to do this together. 9/11, should have taught us a

lesson. but there's no comparison with this illness and 9/11. 9/11 could have been prevented just like this illness, to a certain extent. experts warned us about 9/11. they warned us about this. but that's where it separates and then we lost mass casualties in one day. while we're losing a lot of casualties per day this is going to carry on for months. and people need to heed the advice of experts like dr. fauci. >> well, i know how tough you are. you faced down all of those politicians on capitol hill. you fought and fought for your fellow sflen victims. and now, to see you sick, it's just -- it's very touching for all of us who have admired you for so long. for all of your doing, we thank you. we just hope you have a continuing recovery. because you are just a textbook case of new york tough. exactly what andrew cuomo was saying, new york tough, tough, compassionate and loving.

>> and all elected officials, republican and democrat need to come together and put politics aside for the best of the american people. and the american people need to do their part and listen to the advice of the experts. this is not a joke, this is not a game. let me tell you, andrea, there will be a time when we get back to some sort of normalcy. we got back to some sort of normalcy after 9/11. but our normalcy will change and we'll never be the same after this but i pray in the time that we've had our time, that we take time to understand what's important and what we need to do to better ourselves as a society and prep ourselves for a next time. because there's als going to be a next time. this country will face a next time. it's now you respond, not react, on how history judges us. >> john, thank you so much. that will be our last word for showed. and ari melber takes over after this quick break. thank you for being with us.

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♪ hello, i'm ari melber, anchor of special coverage of this coronavirus coverage. we begin with the facts, 1.2 million now have of course worldwide, over 70,000 deaths. most people who contract