we're just kind of like bracing ourselves for this wave of patients that potentially are coming. >> being very careful about c conservations of ppe. >> the he source depletion in one of the wealthiest cities in the world reminds me a lot about the limitations when i was providing care for war rounded refugees in the middle east. >> overwhelming fear that despite doing everything we can for these patients, sometimes it's just not enough. >> we begin our show once again with just a glimpse of what life is like on the front lines. welcome. i'm chuck todd continuing breaking news coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. we have just gotten word that

the coronavirus task force briefing that was scheduled for 5:00 p.m. has been moved to 6:00 p.m. it comes amid more signs that we're at or very near a peak in this country's overall growth in new cases which comes as senior administration official confirm to nbc news that president trump is planning to unveil a second task force which will be focused on what will be required to reopen the country economically. that will be a big and perhaps dangerous challenge considering the risk of easing too quickly which could snap us right back to the nightmare or worse. we're averaging 30,000 cases day. more than 15,000 have died so far. new york had its deadliest day yet with nearly 800 people in a single 24 hour period.

it might be handle the surge. that's under the rosiest projection like the one on your screen that presumes full social distancing measures until the end of may, at least. it's only april 9th. the bad news is the data on your screen now that shows we're nowhere near the point of being able to realistically talk about ee easing those measures because we aren't near the capacity we need on testing. we have tested less than 1% of

the population. let me repeat, we have tested less than 1% of the population which means we're still largely flying mind on whose had this virus in the past, who has it now and who is at risk of getting it tomorrow. before we can talk about safely roping the country, here is what needs to happen according to a range of experts we have been calling through. first things first we still have to scale up our ability to treat people who are hospitalized. we will have to keep social distancing and hope the number of cases decline and we'll have to escape ul our ability to test, trace and track every one who has had this virus or been exposed to it. the real success stories around the world, i've heard people tell me, talk about taiwan. talk about the real success stories involved a lot of and improved testing regimen and even then it may not be enough

because there's so many things we don't fully understand about the virus. including the most basic question of all. if you've had it, do you have a certain level of protection from getting it again or not. we have to figure out how to test for that on an enormous scale. then and only then we'll be able to talk about easing restriction str restrictions because a vaccine, no matter how fast tracked or how competition is going worldwide, a vaccine is still a year away under the best of cases. we have some extras on hand to give us the full picture as it stands right now. joseph, i want to focus on this testing situation first because i still -- i'm still trying to

figure out why -- let me ask it this way. can we realistically have a conversation about reopening the country if we have yet to test 1% of the population? >> in my opinion, no. i think that will happen because the white house is moving. that does not mean the state governors have to listen to that guidance like thiey didn't have to listen to the frounds round. there's going be another peak after that like that. without the testing, i think it's a mistake. we'll have to have testing up and going nationwide for acutely ill individuals as well as the individuals you mentioned. people that will ha-- have had . >> what have we learned about

this virus on the idea of antibodies. on the idea of whether you can get it a second time. have we learned enough to run that risk yet. >> we definitely know you do develop antibodies from this. they did develop some immunity to to virus. we have no idea how long that immunity will be. that will only come from studying individuals and measuring their antibody levels in in the laboratory seeing if the antibodies are neutralizing or do they enactivate the virus. >> dr. gupta, we have seen -- there's the abilitiy to handle surge on the hospital front but then there's the ability to handle a surge and go back to normal medical care, which seems

to be two different standards we have to meet. when do we know you can handle a surge in cases and normal medical care? >> it's such a good question. there's so many unknowns. we don't know what immunity really means in the setting of covid-19. how long if somebody does test positive for antibody, how long does that mean immunity. that suggests about normal day-to-day affairs and the health system. i think you will be a shift in how people get their care. it will be a lot of connected care. a lot of telemedicine. i think people will self-triage. they will say i don't want to

normalize my life right or way. you'll see our health system change in how it delivers care. i think that will be the first step. >> there's some unintended consequences to that. people won't be getting care when they need it. >> well, i hope that's not the consequence. i just think that's going to be hopefully -- we're going to be engaging differently. the doctor-patient relationship might be different. peoplewanting to engage that way. we might be able to expand care that way. >> andrew, let me ask a question this way. when do you think you'll be able to fly east, safely? >> not before july 1st, i would say. it's hard to know right now. there's too many unknowns and too many moving parts in all of this. we'll need to do a lot more testing as was said.

we'll need to do serological testing. looking for antibodies. >> andrew, there's a study from stanford university that is investigating the idea that the coronavirus was in california a lot sooner. what do you make of that study? how much do you know about it? >> it's a really interesting hypothesis. the standard group is looking for antibodies. we'll be seeing and hearing a lot more about these studies in the come weeks because the an antibody testing will be important to figure out when we can ease the lockdown. i do not believe it's at all likely that this virus was circulating in november, december and january in the united states and causing people to become immune without us being aware of it. i think that is -- from everything we know about the virus, it's extremely unlikely

this is the case. >> i assume you would have had a surge of -- you would have had icu and hospital issues three or four months ago, no? >> correct. correct. it's wishful thinking. >> yeah. an antibodies test, is it different from the test you're getting just to see if you have covid? >> yes. nasal swab test, i think one of my colleague mentioned it is based on pcr. it's fairly instannous results. you'll get it anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours for the acute test to tell you if you have it. the antibody test is a blood based test. that tells you if you had koe

vid -- covid-19 and recovered from it. >> that's a blood test. is there any other way to do it? >> sometimes through the urine but the most reliable is the blood. either a finger stick or taking blood as you normally would. >> all right. dr. gupta, what's the realistic ability for us to ramp up testing on the point of the antibody front. let me ask it this way, what is our better focus right now? ramping up testing for the virus orramping up the antibodies testing and focusing on that first? >> i'll answer it this way.

in an ideal world we have both. it would be nice know who has antibodies and who doesn't. it would be nice to know who has acutely the infection and move toward a containment strategy from where we are now which is mitigation, everybody needs to be distant. we don't talk enough about this and to amplify everything that was said, we don't have enough swabs within this country. that's the bottleneck. we need a swab to stick up into your nose. we don't have enough of those. that is a big problem. until we get more of those, i'd like for the committee, the task force to talk about how will we get more swabs in the country safely. there's a lot of companies overseas using them. let's get them in safely and run with the abbott technology.

we shouldn't have to be guessing what would or would not work. >> andrew, i want to talk to you about the -- how we would open up. what is the best thing to open up first as we go through? do you start with schools? somebody said as you baby step this, schools might be the first place to go with this virus they seem to be, not the -- the most durable population group. >> well, children don't seem to get severe symptoms but as far as we're aware, they do become infected. we have to be careful with opening schools first. they can bring the infection home to their family members. before we can talk about widespread, we to do widespread

surve surveys. until there's some sort of herd immunity, the virus will just come roaring back if we open the gates. >> dr. gupta, washington state being first place hit, when do you think herd immunity is at a point in washington state where you'd feel comfortable starting to see things reopen? >> oh, gosh, i don't know the answer to that question. no idea. here's the thing, we don't -- studies that are happening as we speak. they're called random survey to survey samples. you pick 1,000 people and say what's the point prevalenvalenc covid-19 antibodies. if we understood that and could say we're seeing it approach

whatever percent. what's the level of herd immu immunity in the population to get us going again. we don't know that. >> when can you feel herd immunity is in affect? >> we'd like the the largest number to be immune to it. we don't know anything about and you and i discussed this before about if this virus will be seasonal or not. we're not seeing a slow down of the countries. we don't know if this virus will

have the seasonal slowdowns. it might get us there faster. it may take us six months to a year for the underlying herd immunity. herd immunity comes from your infected and recovered. >> you both have sticking around opinion andrew, i know you have to go. i have one final question. why do you believe so far, california has basically avoided the worst. it felt as if california would be our first tested and it turned tout be new york. there's some real positive movements here as far as the

herd in california. what's your take? >> we're flattening the curve but i think it's probably safe to say but it's -- every part of the country has to be prepared for a long haul. those that are doing better now may be doing worse later and vice versa in is a long, long haul. we have to be prepared for it. we can't -- if we start relaxing social distancing, it's going to come back. it's looking less and less likely there will be a summer interruption because we just have so much -- the pandemic has so much momentum. we don't have the cross immunity from prooefevious seasons like o with flu where we get that summer interruption. california has to baton down the hatches. we're doing okay.

60,000 deaths, which was the figure you quoted at the top of the broadcast, that's very optimistic. that's very, very optimistic. >> talking about 60,000 deaths as optimistic. thank you. appreciate you both are stick around for the white house briefing. we are awaiting start of that briefing now set for 6:00 p.m. once it begins, we'll bring it to you live with our referee interruptions when necessary. the coronavirus showdown on capitol hill. senate democrats block a republican bill to help small businesses saying hospitals need more help too. why does either side think that playing politics on this one is a good idea? we'll be right back.

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can think about reopening the country. the economy continues to take a major hit. another 6.6 million people have filed for unemployment. we have lostly 10% of the work force. today, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell attempted to use a unanimous contempt idea without a full measure vote that would provide dagsal $250 billion for small business relief for the fund set up by the other package. democrats want to see more money allocated for hospitals as well as state and local governments in addition to that small business money. blocked the effort calling the ma maneuver a political stunt. here is what i don't get. i guess this is trump era.

after 9/11, the four political leaders, the top two in each chamber worked more as a team than as partisan foes. here in the trump erera, everyby seems to be looking for an angle. it was a cheap stunt. seems like each side can play a game here without penalty. >> it's clearly a different world, chuck. i think this is born out of a genuine disagreement as how to move forward with that small business money is essential. it's paramount. they wanted that as as soon as possible. the proposal was to delete one number of the legislation and replace it with another number. democrats support that.

they want additional money for hospitals. their budgets are squeezed. there's $150 billion that democrats are demanding for state and local and triball governments who have to deal with this. in addition to that, a 15% bump up of food stamps. the last thing i'll point out is congress approval rating was pretty high. 44%. that's as high as i've seen congress do in my time covering capitol hill. that kind of stuff will probably push that further down. >> it was so clear that the republicans were setting this up. they knew the unemployment claims would come out at. they are still struggling to get the money out the door they

approved in first place. et seems to be a misplaced priority and almost like wasted effort unless press sdaeecretar are bored at home. >> it could be a week or ten days. one thing i've heard speaking to some aides who work on capitol hill is the negotiations could pause through the holidays or around easter monday. these $1200 checks an direct deposits have yet to come. the $600 pump bump up for 16 mi, 17 million jobless claims have yet to come. there's a overwhelming consensus that congress has to do more. how to get there, what comes first, what issues are prioritized, that's the kind of thing where we're seeing the political games come up again. >> i think we'll see this bottleneck as you have so many state websites are abysmal and

they can't handle the incoming on the unemployment claims. that will create a bottleneck that will put a lot of pressure on congress. >> absolutely. to this point one republican recently put it this way. they fear, they're nightmare scenario is a health care.gov situations whether it's on the checks, unemployment benefits, the ppp small business program. congress has not equipped to push out this kind of money this quickly and this feshtly. this is the sort of thing that is bound for some problems. are they well equipped to do this. how fast can the money two out. will the people fall through the cracks. all that is left to be seen.

>> absolutely. i think the politicians have done a terrible job of setting expectations. set expectations this will be hard. don't make it seem like you'll be able to get your money in day and make payroll. great capitol hill reporting there. up ahead, preparing for a surge. emergency rooms in many big cities have yet to experience the coronavirus crush. it is coming. how they're getting ready.

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i know it feels like we have been battling this crisis for a year, the truth is we have a long way to go. you're not powerless. you have the power to protect those around you. sflp th >> that is boston mayor. encouraging people not to give up on social distancing after he issued warning that a surge of coronavirus krcases are on its way. 433 deaths. hospital and emergency health care workers are readying themselves for an influx of patients and their own colleagues could become patients down the line. they are having tough conversations about which patients will receive ventilators in short supply. doctor, thanks for joining us.

let me start with the basic question. the good news is some of the essential distancing is helping. the bad news is it looks like at your peak you are not going to have enough beds, at least, right now. possibly not enough ventilators. how are you preparing? >> thank, chuck. that's the question we're all dealing with right now is that within the next week, as the mayor has said, we're really expecting to see our surge hit. what we're doing is building icus where they didn't exist. we're taking pediatric floors and turning them into icu. we're taking lore areas and turning them into icus. we're staffing them with people who haven't practiced icu medicine in a while but are being led by icu doctors. we have dermatologists, orthopedic surgeons coming dunz

we' -- down and we're pulling in everybody we can to staff these things. >> there's been fear because om soft early super spreaders in boston. there's been fear for about a month that boston will become a hot spot. thankfully, it hasn't happened yet. what do you attribute that to? is it that social distancing is working? you guys identified quicker. what do you atritribute to fact you have put off this hot spot, this surge as long as you have put it off? >> we have managed -- the state has managed to put this off for a large part of the population. i think the physical distancing has really helped. i think it's important to realize as we have seen more data especially over the past couple of days that we haven't avoided the surge completely especially in really disadvantaged populations. chelsea which is a predominantly

n n nonenglish speaking has a surge of patients especially in multigenerational housing. i've seen a lot of places where grandparents are living with grand kids and they are definitely being affected. >> are you seeing this phenomenon where people are afraid to come to the emergency room right now when perhaps they should? >> that's great point. we're not talking about that enough. i'm seeing a lot of people who don't come in. that's fine for your sprained ankle but we're seeing far fewer patients with heart attacks and strokes. that's odd. those things are probably still happening. maybe fewer of them because people aren't doing things and exerting themselves but they are probably still happening and especially in china they saw

patients weren't womcoming in later. if you need to come to the e.r., please, still come. >> tell me what one of the concerns has been as you deal with a surge, front line health care workers end up getting sick. obviously, you have already prepared for that calling upmal icu getting them prepared for that. whether it's testing, do you feel like you have enough testing to have some effort at identifying health care workers seeing them symptomatic. >> we're very concerned about our own health care staff. everybody on the staff from the folks who spend 20 or 30 minutes cleaning up a room after coronavirus patient, after a covid patient is in there to the

doctors and nurses. we're worried about all of them. we have a pretty strict policy. the second you step foot on our hospital campus, you put on a mask whether you're patient or employee. if you're an employee, every day you have to, in order to get in the doors, you have to sign in to an app attest you don't have certain symptoms so we can keep track of our population. we are getting our tests back within a day or two. a lot hocspitals are sending their tests out. sbh sbh somebody who has seasonal allergies with a cough are out for a week awaiting test results. >> how is morale?

>> it's good because everybody is willing to help out and jump in. with random timing, some people were on vacation this month. they can't go anywhere, travel. they are jumping back in and helping to give people a little bit of relief. we're fine this week. morale is great. what i'm worried about is that next week with the surge, we'll probably still be okay but what's been shown in other parts of the country an other parts of the world is that the hospital employee surge is a little bit after the patient surge. while we'll see a lot of sick patients next week, we'll see hospital employees sick over the following weeks. a month from now is when we might see our employee surge. by then, i'm a little afraid our staff might be getting exhausted. that's my concern. >> that's a double whammy. it's like a stomach punch. you're exhausted and it's somebody you share cubicle with.

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let's learn how and why this virus is and why we have higher mortality rates in african-american and latino communities. we'll be doing more testing with many more data. >> welcome back. that was governor coumo. new york city is reporting that hispanic populations are the hardest hit. 29% of city's population but 34% of coronavirus deaths. those numbers are compromised of the 63% of the data the city is

reporting. it is still difficult to know how hard hit african-american communities are hit. the information with often far from complete and the national numbers are even more limited. the cdc leareleased a study including virus hospitalization by race but that study is limited to 580 cases in 14 states and does not count for overall cases or deaths. joining me from chicago is nbc news correspondent gadi. one of the reasons we know about this disparity is chicago is one of the places that's been releasing data along rationcial lines. you've been talking to local leaders trying to figure out why this is. some of it is basically

communicati communication, it seems like more than anything else. >> reporter: earlier in the afternoon r afternoon, i know you spoking to a doctor who complained the misinformation and the problem there and how that is contributing to the cry issuvir. we know poverty, lack of health care contributes to the underlying conditions that make it deadly. you're hearing the complaint about the mission information even on the ground in chicago. mt. sinai, they have the tents set up outside. they get screened there and they are given information on how to avoid spreading this virus and how they can protect their families. i spoke to one man who runs an organization that trains crisis leaders out in high risk areas. normally they are combat things like gun violence and working with mediation. now they are training people and teaching people how to stop the

spread of this virus. listen to what he told me. >> our youth don't believe it. they don't believe the virus is real. >> still, despite the numbers? >> despite what's being said on television? >> most of them do not watch the 6:00 news. >> that's where you come in. >> we provide them with information from the chicago department of health. we're partnering with them with information on how to be safe. not only you but your family. >> reporter: they also partner with the city of chicago and hospitals. you can see this is not just local leaders, not just medical leaders but community leaders involved. >> thank you. it looks -- we put a bit of it up here. 30% of cases, 3% 0% of deaths.

what is pres interesting here is it seemed to line up with the state's demographics unlike pretty much everywhere else we have seen. there is a caveat on california's data. it's only 40 3% of all of their data. what is have you heard from folks out there explaining their lack of disparity. >> you are a master at finding the caveats. that's what a lot of people out here in los angeles are concerned with especially the experts we have spoken to. that means the stats of california, when it comes to the deaths that have happened here do not know the ethnic background of more than 60% of the people that died here. we're looking at 400 to 500 people. the numbers are a little more manageable here in california. the big question is why don't

they have this type of information and why are they releasing preliminary data that right now doesn't say much in terms of the breakdown. in fact, the numbers that you just showed, seem to suggest that the latino population here in california is doing better than the reflection of the demographic breakdown of california. here in los angeles, they want solid numbers and looking to what's happening in new york because about 47 to 50% of the population here is latino fp if that community is at risk in a way they need to know about, they want to make sure they are taking efforts to mitigate everything, they are looking at ways they can reach out to sochl these vulnerable communities. we have seen a lot more testing. they took this serious lly very

very early on. this isn't something they were seeing memes online about how this wasn't going to affect this group of people or that group. when it comes to the essential workers of california and some of the people you don't think about. the people in the agricultural field, people that are off the grid, getting sick for them is taking food off the table. they are already very aware of germs and very aware of viruses because they don't have the luxury of calling in sick. they have to work every single day to pay the rent. it will be interesting to see how things break down. a very big 60% question mark. >> i don't know if i remember the last time i've done a two way conversation with a k correspondent based in los angeles when it's raining. it's so rare. >> it's very weird time. >> i have to say it's weird. we are living in strange times. when you're doing a live shot

from l.a. and it's pouring rain sf . >> this is a reflection of the mood out here. >> unusual to see that particularly -- thank you for that reporting. nursing homes suffering so significantly in this crisis and the search for answers in protecting the nation's most vulnerable. could more have been done in these nursing homes? we'll be right back. "trolls world tour" is coming to your home.

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welcome back. one of the many horrors of this pandemic is the vulnerability of nursing homes and long care facilities. several have become coronavirus hot spots, oftentimes killing dozens of elderly rates. it's happened in washington state that first opened many of our eyes to what this virus would mean for this country. and it's happened in new jersey and in colorado. and then there is this story in virginia. where 39 people have died at the canterbury rehabilitation center in richmond. that's where we find my colleague, nbc correspondent catie beck this evening. and catie, i think the large question we're all going to have after this pandemic is there is no doubt we know these nursing home populations in some ways are very vulnerability. and i guess what we're trying to find out, could anything have been done, or was this something that just is, you know, they were the most vulnerable population and it was

inevitable. you can't lock down these senior centers completely. what are you learning as you've been reporting more on this particular story, for instance? >> well, chuck, i think there is an inherent risk that you can't avoid. these are concentrated, closed down areas. it's really hard to practice social distancing. you have nurses that come and go between these care facilities so it's really hard to track. so there are these inherent things that you really can't change that make this dynamic difficult. i think if you were to ask the family members of loved ones inside this facility what could have been done differently, earlier testing, earlier sort of alarm and better ppe supply and better use of it. i'm not sure that most nursing homes even knew how to correctly use it before this happened. and now they're forced to be finding it in supply and trying to teach their employees how to use it. i spoke to you this morning, and

the fatality count here was at 35. this evening, it's at 39. that just shows you how quickly these outbreaks can take over and spiral. and these numbers have increased, have doubled in a week. so the outbreak here is a severe one, and family members we spoke to today say they put out this daily email sort of updating everybody. and they hold their brathwaiting for that email to come out, hoping it's not their loved one, that their name is not on the list, that they haven't had more people test positive. i think there is so much anxiety from families that are outside of this outbreak looking in, and just feeling really helpless. >> i got to feel people want to leave and feel like a sitting duck, can they? >> i mean, most of them in the facility behind me are extremely frail, extremely fragile. and at this point, unless they are going to a hospital for

treatment, they are not leaving. and family members have said that's such a hard thing for them to know that even if their relative has tested positive, they want to say, well, get them out of there. i don't want him in this situation where there is all this death and all this infection and potentially increasing his risks. but at this point for the safety of everyone, they're just trying to isolate the healthy patients that remain, which aren't many, and keep the patients that need care where they are. >> i have to say, definitely not the best sound when you hear those sirens these days, especially with the stories that we're covering and we're dealing with right now. catie beck in richmond, virginia for us. catie, thank you for your on-the-ground reporting, and we'll be right back.

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thank you for being with us this hour. msnbc's breaking news coverage continues now with my colleague ari melber. good evening, ari. >> good evening, chuck. and i believe i'm going to be able to get the benefit of some of your analysis once you get situated in a few minutes. so i will see you shortly, sir. >> you are correct, yes. let me go do my dialing. >> there we go. dial in a little tech talk. you're looking right here at a scene that we have come to expect, a grim part of life in this pandemic. 6:00 p.m. on the east coast, and you see some reporters queuing up for the white house press briefing. what i can tell you is we're waiting on it, and we will bring you factu