>> it's such a crazy moment. >> yeah, and i mean, because you guys have that longstanding relationship, we're all able to join the conversation in process at a very high level. but people are just waking up to the disparities, and to hear you guys talk about yeah, what the disparity will translate into in part is people approaching this in a wrong-headed way that minimizes the response for everyone. i mean, he's always ahead of the curb, you're always ahead of the curb. but you guys together on this, it's a blessing to be able to listen to you guys. well done. thank you. >> thank you very much. have a great evening. >> all right, thanks, chris. and thanks to you at home for joining us. in the jewish faith, passover began last night. lots of passover seder meals were held all over the country. i am willing to bet that a larger number of them than ever were held at least in part on the phone or over facetime or

skype or zoom with distant family members who would otherwise usually try to be physically together for that holiday. this is holy week for people of the christian faith, as well. today's holy thursday. tomorrow is the most somber day of the year in the christian calendar, good friday, the commemoration of the crucifixion. for members of the episcopal church, the cathedral of the st. john the divine is sort of the mother ship. it's uptown in new york city. i think it's at 112th street. by coincidence, that puts it right next to one of the hospitals in the mt. sinai system, which has been so key the frontline response the coronavirus crisis in new york. in the midst of holy week, particularly if this building looks like the place you are used to celebrating the holy

days of your faith, but even if they're not, even if this is the first time you have ever seep the inside of a cathedral, these images we got today of the name of st. john the divine being set up with hospital beds, with the blue tarp covering the stone floor and the beds lined up like a m.a.s.h. ward, it's hard to get your head around it. it's hard to get your heart around it. but here is the best possible news that could possibly emerge alongside these images we got today from the cathedral of st. john the divine. the best possible news you could get alongside those images is they they may not have to use those beds. the plans were set up to put dozens of hospital beds, if not hundreds of hospital beds inside that cathedral. those plans to set up the cathedral as a hospital site were set in motion. but then today, they were set in

motion as mt. sinai kept up its assessment of its needs and where and the trajectory of beds they might need and as the hospitalization numbers look like they're starting to flatten out, the cathedral of st. john the divine may no longer need to be a hospital. and may that cathedral no longer be needed as a pop-up field hospital be a little ray of light. and let it stay true. let the hospitalization rates in new york continue to flatten out and tart to decline and then steep decline, right? that said, if it doesn't hold, if that situation does change for the worse, up on 112th and amsterdam, inside that consecrated space with those beautiful stained glass windows, in that beautiful space we now know that a hospital can be done there, if need be. right now, it doesn't need to be. which is a blessing.

i will tell you one other very small piece of good news today, and it is a small piece of good news. it comes today from california. the governor of california announcing today that for the first time his state had an actual drop in the number of people in icu beds. this is not a drop in the rate of increase or a drop in the number of new admissions to icu wards. while the total number keeps going up, this was fewer people in icu beds today compared to yesterday. an actual drop in california. and it is a small thing, it may be a one-day blip. but you know what? it's a thing and i'll take it. >> and here, very importantly, is a statistic in terms of percentage drop that i haven't been able to communicate in any of my daily briefings that. is the total number of individuals in the icu. that number of 1,132 represents a drop of 1.9% from yesterday.

one data point is not a trend. one data point is not a headline. so i caution anybody to read too much into that one point of data. but nonetheless, it is encouraging and it just, again, reinforces the incredible work that all of you are doing to practice physical distancing. >> to practice physical distancing. physical distancing brings down the number of contacts between people, right? which reduces the number of people who are getting newly infected, which reduces the number of people getting sick, which reduces the number of people that have to be hospitalized, reducing the number of people that have to be put in the icu, which reduces the number of people who have to be buried, right? it is all one chain of consequences, and the governor is right there, to tie that one data point and may it not be a

blip, may it be the start of a steady trend, to see the number of icu beds in california in use drop for the first time since this crisis, maybe that's, you know, maybe that's something wrong in the data or maybe that's an accident. but if that is the start, what you can trace it back to is people staying at home that. is why americans are being told to stay at home, because of that chain of consequences. the only way that you personally can reduce the death toll in your city and your town and your county and your state is by staying at home. and it will matter if you do. that is why it is insane for these holdout republican governors and legislators to keep saying, well, we don't have that many deaths yet here. so we'll keep waiting and not telling people to stay at home. while people are not staying home, human-to-human contact facilitated by people not staying home means there will be more spread of the virus, more hospitalizations, more icu beds, more ventilators used and more dead. by delaying, even when they only

have a few cases, all they're doing is making their ultimate number of dead citizens larger at the end of the day. with each passing day, they don't keep people at home it's just that simple. this is not rocket science. we don't have a vaccine or a treatment. all we can do is keep people apart from each other so they stop giving it to more people. that's it. the only thing we can do. if we don't do that, nothing else we do will matter. it's that simple. tonight, this hour, we're going to have here on this show a guest who is right in the middle of one of those battles in the heartland tonight. we'll speak to a state health officer, who is basically tearing his hair out trying to do the right thing, while being foiled by the most remarkable cast of characters. but as we continue to marvel at the states that still aren't doing anything, while we look for bright spots in some of the states that are doing everything they can, that are fighting this

thing as hard as they can, that are having some success in fighting this thing, because they started early and decisively, while we watch for those individual parameters, right? while we watch for those individual trajectories in people that are handling it better in the country, our overall national picture as a country remains abjectly terrible. the united states now has over 462,000 cases. which means our outbreak is now more than three times the size of the next largest pandemic in any other country on earth. more than 16,000 americans have been killed by coronavirus thus far. 1,846 americans killed in the last 24 hours. which means that an american died today from coronavirus on average every 47 seconds. in the geographically worth parse of the epidemic in new york, over 7,000 people have

died, nearly 800 in the past day, which is the largest daily death toll in new york thus far. but even as more than 18,000 people are hospitalized right now with coronavirus in new york tonight, we are still seeing a drop in the number of people needing to be newly hospitalized each day. that number was reportedly about 200 in the past 24 hours. only 200 new hospitalizations in new york today. and that's the smallest number of new hospitalizations in new york since new york instituted its stay at home policy to try to slow this thing down and lessen its impact. it remains a weird truth, though, about the data. that even as new york has these huge numbers of cases, right? new york as a state has more coronavirus cases than any other country in the world right now, let alone compared to other states, but a weird sort of cloud hanging over the case numbers from new york every day,

is that even as we understand more and more about what's happening in new york and how their policy interventions may have started to flatten out the kufb so they may be approaching their apex in a way that we can predict when it will come down and we can start to have hope, there is this weird cloud hanging over that data in terms of how it helps us understand the outbreak in the country, which is that new york is is doing more testing, because we still don't have a federal testing policy. the trump administration is still noodling on that one. still working on it. still every state for themselves when it comes to testing. now, there have been a few sites around the country where the federal government did step up to help get testing done at individual specific sites. but we learned yesterday they were planning to stop that as of tomorrow. for example, montgomery county, pennsylvania, they've got nearly 1500 known coronavirus cases in

just -- excuse me, just over 1500 known coronavirus cases in just that county. which is a lot in that one county that's more confirmed cases than a bunch of u.s. states have right now. but that big number in montgomery county, pennsylvania may be in part because they have been testing. they have a drive-through testing facility that has been open in that county since march 21st. at that drive-through facility, they have been testing 250 people every day. and they are busy, testing 250 people every single day since they opened. now, as pennsylvania's caseload goes up and up and up and up, that test site was set to close down tomorrow. because the federal government, for some reason, decided that the end of this week would be the time that they would shut off all the funding to all these testing sites that they have been sponsoring around the country. the same with another site in philadelphia itself. same with another site in

colorado springs, colorado. same with more than three dozen sites in a dozen states. there was federal support for these individual testing sites, right? that's basically the only thing the federal government has done toward actually getting americans tested in my meaningly available way. and the government decided that as of the end of this week, they were going to end that support. as of tomorrow. the trump administration was asked why on earth they were planning to do this. the health and human services administration told npr that these sites, you shouldn't think of them so much as closing. you should be thinking of them as transitioning. which, you know, i could go on. i will restrain myself. it's a nice euphemism, i'll put it that way. and maybe some of these testing sites would have transitioned into some other way of being once the federal government rescinded their funding, and their technical support for the

testing labs that was doing all those tests and allowing those places to be open. a bunch of these sites, montgomery county, pennsylvania, the news yesterday that it's not that they were going to transition into some other mode, they were going to close because the federal government was rescinding their support for that successful testing facility. just as pennsylvania needs testing more than ever. just as pennsylvania's numte nu start to ride up their endem ek curve. that was reported by npr, after a fitting backlash to that nonsense, the federal government just tonight, just within the past couple of hours, reversed course and said, okay, okay, we'll change our mind. these test sites all across the country that we plan to close tomorrow instead we'll allow them to stay open. so, yeah, thank you npr for

reporting this that caused the backlash that resulted in the federal government changing its mind. so, you know, we'll continue to have this smattering of federally reported testing sites in a dozen states. this means the federal government didn't inundo the on damn thing they were doing in terms of getting americans tested for this disease. but we remain without a national testing plan and woit good access to testing, our data continues to be all over the state. new york state is doing a lot of testing, but every state is having to make due on its own terms of how many people they're testing, how they're doing it to do that testing. with the patch work of systems and different levels of government trying to put together a response, we're starting -- we have some data about how many cases that we have got. some states tell us more information than others. we know enough to know we have

the worst outbreak on earth by far. but the details of where it's the worst, frankly they just have to trickle up through the seams. we don't have a national response. so we don't have national information. so you look at local coverage sometimes to find out where things are at their worst. this was local news coverage today for example from hayward, california. coverage of a local nursing home in hayward where of the 35 residents who have tested positive in that facility, six have already died. staff has started to test positive at that facility in pretty good numbers, as well. i only came across this local news report today because hayward is the city in california where i was born. it's right near where i was born and where i grew up. and so this happened to catch my eye today, this tragedy in hayward, california. but just try this.

if you have some spare internet access, if you have few minutes, look around at the local press, where you grew up or where you were born or where your parents live now or where your grown kids or grand kids have moved off to. just pick a place somewhere in this country. pick the last american place you went on vacation. pick the last town where you got a speeding ticket when you were driving on a cross country trip. pick anywhere in this country and look at the local press there. i will tell you, what you will find more likely than not is a story, at least one, about a nursing home, an assisted living facility, a group home for adults with disabilities, a soldier's home for elderly veterans. you will find at least one local story about a congrefacility wh they have faces or deaths, where the staff is testing positive and they have profound worries and don't know what they're going to do. just pick it, anywhere.

i mean, here's kentucky just tonight. covid-19 spreading quickly in dozens of kentucky nursing homes. 152 infected. 16 dead. here's the seattle times. coronavirus spreads to 163 long-term care facilities in washington state, killing more than 200 people. here's richmond, virginia. one facility, 39 deaths among residents at that one facility. 49 other residents with symptoms already. 25 staff testing positive. here's san antonio, texas. 84 residents. 67 of those 84 residents already known to be infected. here's footage of the magnolia rehabilitation and nursing care center in riverside county, california. this footage looks like disaster response because it is. what this shows is the one by one evacuation of all of the residents in that facility. they found out that of the 84 residents in that facility, at

least 34 of them were positive. and the staff was starting to test positive, too. and when most of the staff just started not showing up, when the staff just didn't show up to staff that facility for two days in a row, first they sent in nurses, they sent in extra medical care workers to try to bolster ka pass ty at that facility to keep people alive, but when too much of the staff didn't turn up, they called it off. they evacuated. the patients were taken one by one, to other facilities. they with find for them somewhere in southern california. talking about maybe even some of them will go to the navy hospital ship "the mercy" in los angeles. the crisis of coronavirus ripping through american nursing homes, and american long-term care facilities, that is everywhere. that story is ubiquitous. but you have to look in the local news to find it.

apparently, you'll occasionally get national news outlets covering it in a survey way, the way i just did, or national scope paper like the new york times will do a survey piece about it. but look in local news outlets. you will find that all of this country, rural urban, suburban, everywhere. their long-term care facilities, where elderly people are held, are creaking under the weight of this thing, and they have no idea what to do. the crisis in nursing home and long-term care facilities will account for a huge swath of the american death toll unless something is done to address this systematically. there is no national help for this as of yet. there is no national strategy for this. there's no national information about this. you have to follow local news outlets to try to get your arms around it. but without a federal response to speak of on anything, let alone on this, the most acute crises for the most vulnerable

people, it's just part of the scramble we need to do just as citizens to follow what's happening, to follow who's dying and at risk of dying and who needs help, and who is trying to keep people from dying and doesn't know how to do it. doesn't know how to staff these facilities safely now that the staff is testing positive, too. now that the staff is sometimes not showing up. so we're trying to follow it. that emerging disaster in every state of the country, we're trying to follow it. one of the other ways we're trying to follow the real contours of this catastrophe, despite all the happy talk from the white house, is that we've been trying to make contact with individual health providers in different parts of the country, to have them just let us know what they're facing. like for example, this doctor. chief medical officer in newark, new jersey, interviewed here by wnbc. he says as hopeful as everybody is about curves starting to

flatten and things starting to ease up, at least at his facility in newark, that's still just hope. he says it's not happening there, at least not yet, and they are pretty sure they know why. >> unfortunately, in the past couple of weeks, it's been very hectic. the emergency room, our hospital has been inundated with a lot of admissions. we are anticipating this surge this week, and i'm not going to lie to you, it is a source of concern. we did have those two weeks of social distancing that we were supposed to adhere to. and unfortunately, we are not seeing the impact that we anticipated, at least in our inner city hospital here at st. michaels. >> the numbers are still going up? >> the numbers are still going up. and yes, i mean, in the face of ppe shortages, staffing

shortages, it's a challenge. but we're rising up to the challenge and we understand what our role is, which is to serve our community. when it comes to low income -- the population, the low income population, it's not easy to stay home. a lot of their jobs require them to show up for work. so social distancing is not easy in that situation. so things like that need to be factored in when we address the viral pandemic, especially in the underserved population. the er is very busy, inupdated with cases. the icu, we have a lot of mechanical ventilators in use right now. and we just keep increasing ka passty to accommodate all those ventilators. but we're rising up to the challenge. we're ready for this. i think the community as a whole is ready for this. and my only message, again, to the people in newark and everywhere else, practise social distancing.

>> practice social distancindis. take it from him if no one else. that's a doctor in newark, new jersey. here's a nurse in southeastern michigan. >> hi. my name is marie. today is friday, april 3rd. and i'm just wrapping up kind of a long 12-hour shift. i feel i'm a little -- i was really hoping that one of my patients was going to be taken off a breathing machine today, and it didn't happen. we had another death today that the whole icu took pretty hard. so that was tough. the last two days have been hard and there's been so much anxiety. we're still watching as patients

are just becoming critical so quickly. i don't know. a lot of the nurses i worked with today walked around and just told jokes all day. because we've just been crying so much. we just want everybody to keep laughing and keep moving. so that's what we're doing. and that's what i got for today. we're just -- we're just going to keep moving. april 5th, sunday. today i worked in the er. the situation and the heaviness, the impact of all of it, on the

workload and the emotional toll that it takes, and just looking around and seeing my colleagues, my team who have looked tired. but there's the other side of me that is hopeful. hopeful that maybe social distancing is starting to make a difference, that maybe all of the people who are listening to the guidelines and following them and staying home, are saving lives. i hope so. i think i'll hang on to that today. >> she is in michigan. i should tell you today, republicans in the michigan state legislature started advocating that michigan should loosen up some -- start loosening up these stay at home orders. they're such a drag. why would we want people to stay at home right now when their health care providers are coping

with that? one of these frontline providers we have been talking to, one who has had coronavirus himself, fought it off and come back to work himself, has a really big response to some footage we've had. he'll join us live here next, and you will want to meet him. he has an incredible story. stay with us. ty of non-drowsy claritin. and 24 hour relief from symptoms caused by over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. like those from buddy. because nothing should come between two best friends. feel the clarity, and live claritin clear. and here we have another burst pipe in denmark. if you look close... jamie, are there any interesting photos from your trip? ouch, okay. huh, boring, boring, you don't need to see that. oh, here we go.

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this is dr. gadda, in the midst of all the covid craziness, we're still in the operating room taking care of really sick patients, that really can't wait. we've been very careful of conservations of ppe. we're using masks and some occasions gowns and not leaving the operating room to take a bathroom break because we don't want to waste our gowns. i'm proud to work here. >> proud to work here. that dispatch for the frontlines came to us from dr. gadda, who is a surgeon at tacoma general

hospital in washington state. we played that clip for him on the show tonight and it hit a nerve. we got a big reaction about the foot an we showed. he's a surgeon that something i can barely say. he's an esophogial surgeon. he specializes in robotic surgery, which is impressive on the face of it. but consider too how he got to this point. as a child, he and his parents and brother were refugees. they fled kuwait during the iraqi invasion and later emigrated to the u.s., whereupon he grew up to become an esophogial robotic surgeon. now he can say he personally survived becoming infected with covid-19. he got sick, he recovered. and as soon as he was recovered and cleared to get back to work, he went back to the hospital,

right back to the frontlines. >> here i am, back to work after covid-19. for my patients out there, for the people with fear, know that to matter what happens, we never work from home. the lights are always on. babies are being born. bones are being set. this hospital, this profession, we're in a league of our own. we'll take care of you. i promise. >> joining us now is dr. gadda, a surgeon aen there in washingt state. i know you're working full time. thank you for making time to talk to us. >> thank you for featuring this and me. this is an incredible amount of effort that was put into have me up here. soy appreciate it. >> well, sure. i'm happy to do it. tell me, doctor, there's a lot of different things i want to ask about, but first, because

you're practicing working in tacoma and because the whole country has been watching washington state deal with early cases, deal with large numbers of patients coming in, let me ask how things are in your hospital and what your daily workload is like these days. >> so that's a great question. if there's any silver lining from the tragedy in the nursing home up in kirkland is that it allowed our local state and local leaders, as well as our health care administrators to prepare for the pandemic better, earlier than the rest of the country. it allowed us to raise our awareness, not just amongst the planning site, but from the health care provider perspective to be able to be ready mentally and physically for this onslaught that was about to come. so because of that, a and because of the scientific modeling that's been used, we have been able to flatten the kufb a curve, and by that i mean the

goal which the rest of the country has aimed for. flattening the curve has allowed the hospital system to not get overwhelmed. so it's allowed our capacity within our hospital system to manage our patients, incoming flow to patients to be well maxed. therefore, the long answer to your question is, we have been able to manage well, enough to the point where the field hospital that was being built in seahawks stadium is being d dismantled and moved to a different part of the country. from a planning perspective, that has worked and we have to commend our health care administrators, local and state leaders for taking the lead on this. >> one of the things you talked about in one of the clips i just showed, even in the operating room, even in the context of surgery, you're having to be mindful about conserving personal protective equipment, gowns and facemasks and the other things that you and your colleagues use to protect

yourselves from getting infected. i imagine that everybody is in a protective mode toward that type of equipment right now. but is it critical right now in terms of the amount of equipment that people have and what you and your colleagues need to keep yourselves safe? >> so it is critical, and we have been taking -- making sacrifices in terms of utilization. it has forced us to rethink how many times we use ppes and masks, how frequently we change gowns or masks, and how infrequently we actually we need to do that. primarily because of our concern about -- have we peaked, have we not peaked? we don't know what the next week or day is going to look like. so the underlying aspect of our daily lives has been determined by our continual fear that we

may be okay today, but we want to plan for tomorrow. a lot of what medicine is, is essentially planning for the worst case scenario. so everyone is very mindful in the operating room, we have nurses literally guarding the boxes of masks and being very consensuous when and if we need to use things. >> now, your situation is different than some of your colleagues in a material way, because you yourself got sick. you yourself have been infected with covid-19 and survived it and recovered. i imagine that the idea that you may have immunity to getting further -- to being infected again must change your whole mindset in terms of how you're approaching your job now. >> this, again, a great point. this is the reason i felt that this was an important message, because there is no good way to describe the amount of anxiety a health care worker such as me or the nurses, the environmental

service worker that comes to work, the unsung heros of this hospital. there is no way to describe the fear and the anxiety you would have of coming to work, knowing that there is ady see disease o there that may take your life. i've never served in the military. the closest i would ever come to serving in uniform for this country is to do the job that i'm doing today. and by that i mean, i liken it to listening to the whistle as you go up over the trenches to face the enemy bayonet. that nervous fear that you would have to know that to do my job, to save lives, to follow my calling, it may take my life, but yet people show up to work, the degree of selflessness that people have demonstrated have been reinvigorating for me and my profession, and why i do this. i stand on the shoulders of giants.

and i stand alongside the most fearless people i've ever seen. >> doctor, sir, thank you for your work and thanks for taking time to talk to us about it. i appreciate you doing it. i hope you'll stay in touch in the coming days and weeks. >> thank you, rachel. this is a great honor. i appreciate it. >> thanks. much more to get to tonight. stay with us. (bell rings) when heartburn hits fight back fast... ...with tums chewy bites... beat heartburn fast tums chewy bites does that mean they have to grow apart from their friends, or from the things they love to do? with right at home, it doesn't. right at home's professional team thoughtfully selects caregivers to help with personal care, housekeeping, meals - and most of all, staying engaged - in life.

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it's a little like going to an old drive-in movie theater. you pull into a parking lot, turn your radio to a certain low power fm frequency and watch the show. but in this case this is not going to the movies, but it is going to church. this is how triumph church in detroit, michigan is holding regular services these days. the pastor delivers his sermon from a big screen that's attached to a small semi truck. and you can tune in and listen

on your car radio. stay in your car. here's the "detroit free press" describing it. churchgoers sang from their cars or trucks, they lift their hands in praise. they honk their horns to praise collectively. that's just one snapshot from michigan. other services are being held online all over the country. susan and i get e-mailed what we call church in a box, audio files of sermons from our pastor. worshipping together but physically apart. people of all faiths are being innovative all over the country now. and there is now clinical data to show there is good reason for it to be done that. last night i spoke with mayor lori lightfoot of chicago, one of the cities that has been very hard hit by the coronavirus epidemic. the cdc has just published a report, tracing the origins and spread of one large cluster of coronavirus in the city of

chicago. this is the headline out of that report. >> "the washington post" describing it this way -- >> how did they transmit it to the broader chicago community exactly? for example, try church.

>> and so at least part of chicago's now big, scary epidemic may be traceable to a church service where nobody did anything wrong, other than go to church as normal. and it's not just chicago. take for example the great state of kansas. where that state's health secretary has been tracking more than a dozen clusters of coronavirus cases in kansas. he says that four of the clusters he's been tracking have been linked to religious services and events. and you would not believe the controversy that is just unfolding in kansas politics over those findings and the effort to stop coronavirus in that state. it's an amazing story and that is next. stay with us. ♪

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and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. while most of the world is being asked to stay inside, there are people out there giving it their all. so, to everyone who is helping to keep us safe against covid-19 day in and day out, all of us at amgen say, ... thank you. at the end of march, kansas

became the 22nd state to institute a statewide stay at home order, as well as a ban on large public gatherings. thereafter, the democratic governor of kansas, laura kelly, clarified the large includes limits on all gatherings including religious gatherings. governor kelly acted amid a growing number of coronavirus clusters in the state of kansas. a third of which are believed to have stemmed from people attending religious services and events and getting infected there. despite that clear pattern in the state a group of republicans in the legislature voted to overturn the governor's order on large gatherings because they want kansas people gathering in large numbers right now with the state's coronavirus cases at like 1100 and rising and dozens of deaths already? governor kelly today said she would sue those legislators who overturned her order. she's calling on the state

supreme court to settle the matter but while this plays out, this is what the health director dr. lee norman had to say. whatever kansas legislators do doesn't reverse what the public, capital p, capital t needs to do, stay home so we can beat this. despite what the leaders of the legislature say, we are so close and they are doing politics. don't fall for it. he says quote we're so angry, shame. his med kaical career was a chi medical officer of university of kansas health care system and a colonel in the army national guard and health officials in the state of kansas, his daily live streamed briefings on coronavirus have basically become must-watch tv in the

state of kansas. dr. norman has been praised on both sides of the aisle but tonight he's making clear he's not having it. joining us is dr. norman, mr. secretary, dr. norman, thank you for your time this evening. i know you're busy and in the middle of it. thanks for being here. >> thank you, rachel. appreciate being here. >> i was struck by not just your blunt language when the public in kansas needs to do, whatever is happening with the legislature, the public needs to stay home so we can beat this scurge. you're expressing angry, i'm so angry, shame. tell me what is animating you on this.

this seems like something that got to you. >> well, i'm a very moderately tempered individual but this was a mistake. i have nothing against religious gatherings now but all gatherings now and i don't think a religious gathering should be singled out. we're not limiting people's ability to worship. you pointed that out earlier there is all sorts of novel and interesting creative ways and i think most church and church leaders are doing that but to reverse it for people to stand down and coming into easter weekend is a big mistake and very political, i think. >> one of the things that i was struck by in reading about this controversy in your state and this political sort of confrontation now is how you and your office and authorities are tracking clusters within the state. you have been trying to map

individual clusters of virus and where people got it and where it was transmitted. it seems from the public reporting you have been able to track some of the spread of the virus in kansas to religious gatherings of different kinds. >> yes, that's true. there has been four gatherings that have been quite specifically related to church events or services. there has been three deaths that have related to that. one was a woman who went back to her home county, infected her husband and they both died. and we don't even know all of the people they might have contacted because they died. so it's a whole cluster of them. we know either four of them had between ten and 40 people infected. it's a bad idea for that gathering. it's unfortunate into easter weekend and it's not about religious freedom but not

gathering in such a manner. >> what are your projections for your state? how well equipped do you feel your state is given what you think will happen in terms of the trajectory of the epidemic and the measures that kansas people are taking or not to prevent continued spread of it? >> we've been watching this, rachel because it hit the coast before the heartland. we've been able to organize medical care facilities and public health departments in the 105 counties. i think that we are going to be in pretty good shape this round. a couple things we don't know. one is it going to be seasonal or not and go away in the late spring summertime and come back in the fall? deployed in the middle east in 2017, 2018 so i saw firsthand the middle east respiratory

syndrome, which was a coronavirus didn't hit the peak until the fourth year and it's still grinding along. will this act that way? we don't know this virus well enough to answer that question yet. >> dr. lee norman, the secretary of the kansas state health department. secretary norman, appreciate you making time and i know there has been a lot more attention to the coast than the heartland but we are interested in the story everywhere in the country and we hope you'll come back and keep us apprised as you keep fighting this in your state, sir. >> sure, happy to do so, rachel. >> all right. we'll be right back. stay with us. thank you. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us...

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last week one of the more remarkable head snappingly terrible washington decisions of this epidemic was the firing of the captain of the "uss theodore rooseve roosevelt" whose firing offense is he pled for help amid a coronavirus outbreak on his vessel that has infected more than 400 sailors including that captain himself. since that firing, the trump appointed navy secretary has himself resigned for his role in that debacle. well today we learned from the chief of naval operations an investigation into this matter has been completed and admiral is taking no options off the table including the possibility of reinstating captain crozier as commanding officer of the "theodore roosevelt" if the investigation deems that