stream it now on pandora with xfinity. and don't forget to catch trolls world tour now in theaters and at home on demand. rated pg. let's party people! ♪ one more time behold the edgewood congregational church in cranston, rhode island. services canceled. "god is making house calls." this is from athens, tennessee. folks, it's okay the church is empty on easter. the tomb was empty too. not a bad point. and this is the journey of the faith church in windsor mill, maryland. jesus rode an ass into jerusalem. keep yours at home. truer words. happy easter, everyone. it's still easter with everything else. stay inside. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again on monday.

hi, everyone. we're so happy to see you on a saturday night. we're going to spend the next hour reporting and listening to the sounds of a nation on pause. an entire country holding its collective breath as we wonder if we'll ever gather again to worship, to celebrate, to grieve, to eat together, to learn, to work, to take in a movie or a play, or to cheer on our favorite sports teams. right now thousands of americans are grieving the loss of loved ones, and millions are worried about lost jobs, lost savings, families separated. children not in school. and for many americans, it's the great unknown about when or whether a return to normal is around the corner that causes the most anxiety. but this evening there are reasons for cautious optimism. we're seeing some degree of stabilization here in new york with our cases. the number of deaths, which surged through much of the week, are now leveling off.

and overrule new hospitalizations and intubations have decreased. governor andrew cuomo said today there are indications the state has finally hit the apex. in other words, we've got a long way to go, but the hope is that this is as bad as it might get for us in new york. that silver lining, though, running up against the facts today. every state in the country now under a major disaster declaration. the first time that's happened in our history. the number of cases in the u.s. has passed half a million, and as of this afternoon, the united states now leads the world in the number of confirmed covid-19 deaths. it's impossible to hear all that and not dwell on the enormous debt of gratitude we all owe to the heroes of this moment, the first responders, the doctors and the nurses, the firefighters and police, bus drivers, grocery workers, delivery men and women, pharmacists and caregivers. we'll spend some time covering the heroics of the frontline heroes in this battle.

another thing we keep hearing, americans miss the things that we used to do together. among them, sports, cheering for our favorite teams. and on a weekend that in ordinary teams would have seen millions of americans at baseball stadiums around the country taking in a game, we'll get to talk to baseball legend alex rodriguez about whether the 2020 season will be played at all. we're not just missing baseball. today should be day three of the masters. the nba playoffs were scheduled to start next week but who knows if it will happen? the olympics are canceled. little league is on hold. and there are worries about the start of the nfl season five months out. over the next hour, we'll talk to reporters, doctors, athletes, historians, and a former vice president about the impact, the experience of a nation on pause. in just a few minutes, we'll be joined by three-time mlb mvp alex rodriguez. later we'll talk to ken burns and former vice president joe

biden. joining me for the entire hour, my colleague and friend mike barnacle. mike, this started from a conversation you and i had last week, and you told me how your days start. tell everybody how your days start. >> well, most days i get up quite early obviously because i'm used to getting up early. and i get in my car and i go through the city of boston, drive around various neighborhoods, make several stops. i do it all safely. i have my gloves on. i have my mask on. and i talk to people who i know, some people who i don't know. i go through neighborhoods that were once familiar. and you find out a lot by just talking to ordinary people during the course of a day in this particular period of time that we're all going through, nicolle. and one of the things that you find out is like an assemblage of the wounded, the weary and the wary. and they all have a common concern, and it's not politics. it's not any of the candidates. they have common concerns,

though. and the concerns are, am i going to die? are my children going to be healthy? is my family going to be okay? can i pay the rent or the mortgage? can i afford to buy groceries? how long is this going to last? when will it end? all things like that. but you drive through a city like boston, like most cities like baltimore or new york city where you are now, and it's like driving through a dream because it's springtime and you can feel spring coming. >> mm-hmm. >> you can hear the birds, but there are no people. >> yeah. >> and people ask you, you know, when will it be safe? where do i -- what happens to me if i go to the drugstore, to the supermarket, all things like this. >> it's on everybody's mind, and we're going to talk about all this. we're going to listen to all. we're first joined by the aforementioned wes moore. he's the ceo of robin hood. also by dr. stefan flores, an e.r. doctor at columbia medical

center. let me start with you. where is the hope coming from? are the hospitals seeing fewer patients, or are the patients now sort of at the tail end of their battles against coronavirus? could you take us through the medical reality where we find ourselves tonight? >> yeah. so essentially -- thank you for having me. as governor cuomo has stated, we are seeing hopeful statistics being presented. specifically admissions, discharges from the hospital, admissions to icu and even intubations may be down. but people again are dieing and will continue to die. and the mortality rate we're seeing has been increasing. but i can tell you anecdotally and even from working yesterday, i believe we are entering plateau phase, and it was the first day that i truly felt that the volume was down. again, there were those critically ill who needed to be intubated but nowhere near to

the levels and volume we were seeing even from last week. so it's all good signs. but, again, as the weather starts to get nice in new york city and around the country and with easter and passover upon us, we cannot get lax and we need to practice all the measures we've been talking about. >> dr. flores, can you ask some of mike barnical's questions from the people he sees? are we safe going to the grocery store? are we safe going out for that one hour of fresh air or exercise? what should we be doing to protect ourselves and protect our neighbors and protect the more vulnerable people in our families or circles? >> yeah. i mean i think at this point we still need to be doing all those things we mentioned. i'm not telling everyone to essentially stay locked up forever. i understand people need to get groceries. they need to get a breath of fresh air. there are obviously secondary negative effects associated with social distancing and staying at home. but that still means we can wear a mask in public. that still means we can wash our

hands. we can maintain that appropriate distancing we've been doing for quite some time. there's a two-week lag period between what we're seeing, from when patients get infected to when they actually present to the hospital and they have a positive covid test. so again i think we're starting to see the benefits of those social distancing measures we've implemented from weeks prior but it still needs to carry on for weeks to come. >> wes moore, there's a disproportionate impact of this virus on african-americans. the numbers are 60% and 70% of the dead in cities with 25% and 30% african-american populations. it is disproportionately fatal among african-americans. talk about what needs to be done to surge extra protection, extra resources to communities that are being hardest hit. >> i think you hit it on the nose. >> i'm sorry. that was for dr. wes. we'll come back to you. >> i think the numbers are

heartbreaking, but frankly they're not shocking. and the reason that they're not shocking is because in many cases, the same type of focus, the same type of -- the danger of this virus is it is remarkable in the way that it targets the most vulnerable. what i mean by that is that when you have communities that are already dealing with histories and legacies of things like diabetes and hypertension and heart disease, it makes it that much more difficult for people to be able to combat this virus as it comes onboard. mike brought up such an important, beautiful story about talking to people about what it means to return to normalcy. the challenge is for many people in the african-american community and the latinx community, normalcy, like in the case of baltimore, normalcy is having double the asthma rate as their white counterparts. normalcy is having higher hypertension rates, higher

obesity rates. we need to put a greater focus on direct and targeted testing. we need to put a greater focus on education, but also we've got to make sure we're addressing the underlying facts and underlying risks that's making communities so vulnerable in the first place. >> wes moore, let me give you one more question in this vein. it would seem all the debate about when and how quickly to bring the country back is centered around the economy. it seems it should be centered around these most vulnerable communities, no? >> many of the people who are still involved in the economy right now frankly a lot of our frontline workers, a lot of our low-wage workers, these are people who don't have the luxury to work from home anyway. these are people who are going out, like mike said, the ones who are doing the food delivery. it's not a life or death question for them. in many ways, it's a death or death question. i can either not work, or i can go out and expose myself to a deadly virus. so we have communities that are in no-win situations at this

point. and how we talk about the re-entry of our economy, how we talk about what it means to rebuild our economy, we have to understand that to rebuild our economy, it means we have to put a core focus on creating a stable and a supportive environment for all those people who are truly helping to make our economy go in the first place and have always done so historically. >> mike barnicle, death-death, is that what you're hearing from some of the people you encounter? >> i'm sorry. what, nicolle? >> wes moore talked about it's not life and death. it's death and death. you go out and do your jobs and you risk your life or you don't work and you risk your life. >> nicolle, absolutely. i mean, look, inequity has always been part of the dna in the united states of america. it can't be denied. but now it jumps off the sidewalk at you. when you look at the people carrying the load for this

virus, the paramedics, the emts, the police, the fire -- if you're a firefighter, you go down the street, you see the blaze. if you're a police officer, you know who the felon is. you don't see this disease. >> yeah. >> you can go through neighborhoods, poor neighborhoods, see variety stores, hair salons, and you know they're not coming back. they're not coming back from not a whole lot, but they're not coming back from that. yesterday oddly enough, i was at a local hospital here in boston. i brought a person in for infusion treatments. while the person was undergoing the infusion treatment, i was taking a walk around the facility. i bumped into a nurse who i've known for quite some time. she has ptsd. you can tell she has ptsd, and she told me a story about the night before, watching a man die, 75 years of age, she thought, the father of a family. the family was watching him as he faded into death. they were watching him on an

ipad. so this is dying alone in america, and sadly i think one of the epitaphs for this particular period of time we're going through is that a lot of people now think that this is no longer the country we once thought it was. it's sad. >> dr. flores, i want to give you the last word. is ptsd something that you are thinking about? is it on your mind? is it something you know to watch for in yourself? >> i think many of us physicians on the front lines are experiencing exactly what barnicle had actually mentioned before. so i mean all of us are obviously experiencing the emotional, psychological and physical stress every day when we go into work. i miean i go to sleep and i'm obviously struggling sleeping and many of my counterparts are as well considering what we're facing.

like i said, to really sit on the front lines, to have to tell people that they're dying over either an ipad or over the phone, i mean these are things that i don't plan for, and it's not how i want to take care of patients. that sense of empathy is lost, and it's heart-wrenching. >> well, it comes through loud and clear from you here. dr. flores, thanks for spending some time with us. wes moore, thank you, my friend. mike and i are now joined by a basketball hall of famer, a three-time olympic gold medalist and the coach of the number-one ranked college team in the nation, dawn stayly. dawn is the head coach of the university of south carolina women's team. the south carolina gamecocks have been one of the top programs in the country. in 11 years, they've earned five sec regular championship, six tweet sixteens, and the first basketball national championship. this year, dawn was on her way quite possibly to another. dawn, i want to ask you what

it's like to cut the season short but i want to give you a chance to weigh in on the last conversation we were having. the incredible national tragedy and the disproportionate impact it's having on communities of color from coast to coast. >> well, it's staggering to see how much it's attacking the black community. you know, i think we as a people, we are -- you know, we are one that likes to be amongst each other, and i don't think we always take it seriously. like we think we're not vulnerable to something like that. and even -- you know, i take precautions when i go out. if i go to the dproesgrocery st i'm fully masked. i've got my rubber gloves on. sometimes when you're in sports too, you think you're not prone to anything.

you're invincible. >> mm-hmm. >> so for us, i think this is real. it's real in all of our communities. it's real when you watch the news and you see how many people are impacted. if you just look and see what's happening in new york and, you know, this thing doesn't discriminate. it surely is impacting our communities, and we must adhere to what everyone is saying. if you can't stay at home, then you need to fully put on your garb as far as your mask, long-sleeve shirts, fully clothed, rubber gloves just so, you know, you're not one of the statistics that's impacting not just us in this country but globally. >> and, dawn, your following is large and vast. i'm sure those words will go a long way. talk about your season, though, and your players. what does it mean to have it cut short? >> i mean it's horrific. you really don't have the words

to give to young people besides that you're sorry. and luckily we have a team full of players and young people who they're resilient, you know. you flow know, they feel it one minute, but they look forward to the next minute. to have something taken away as quickly as it was -- and of course it was the right decision. but, you know, sports is a part of our culture. >> mm-hmm. >> it's who we identify as. it's a unifier. it's a conversational piece, and we lose some of that. but certainly this thing is real. covid-19 is real, and it's replaced some of that culture that we had. but it does allow us to put things in perspective. >> yeah. >> to think about family, to think about health, to think about praying a lot more and have some meaning behind that. >> coach, how do you lead your players not in a season? you know, you thought you'd be

leading them in a championship, i'm sure. how are you leading them now? are you skyping with them? do you zoom? do you ask them to stay fit? how are you leading them now because i'm sure you have not cut any of your ties to your players? >> right. each and every week we have a meeting, a zoom meeting with our entire program. we have a theme for those meetings. the first one, we put closure to our 2019-2020 season, and we let them -- we gave them a place to get it all out. the next meeting we talked about how we move forward. you know, we gave them three questions. what are you worried about? what are you working on? what do you see in our future? and we're talking about things that can help us hopefully when we get back to some normalcy because you don't really want to harp on it. we live through covid-19 every single day, every single moment. before that 40 minutes or that hour and 20 minutes that we're

talking with our team, we're using it as an escape to think about something other than the impact that covid-19 is having. but also we want to move forward, and hopefully our lives will get back to some normalcy. but until then, we're going to work on some championship behaviors and some things that we can work on individually and collectively to make sure once we're able to get back together, that we didn't miss a beat from a mental standpoint. obviously physically, they can't go to the gym all the time. they have to do things in their homes. but i think if you're mentals are as strong -- four times as strong as your physicals, you know, once we physically get back into things, we'll be in a good place. >> dawn stealey, you're an inspiration. sports and baseball in particular have played a very important role in boosting the nation's psyche during times of crisis. ten days after september 11th, baseball returned to new york city and gave mets fans and new yorkers something to celebrate.

then on october 30th of that year, my old boss, george w. bush, walked onto the mound at yankee stadium before game three of the world series and delivered a perfect strike if i may say so myself. and with it, another much needed moment of collective cheering. but now even with talks about playing the season in florida or arizona, it remains an open question when we'll hear crowds cheer again the way they did on those fall nights in new york. mike and i are now joined by three-time mlb baseball legend alex rodriguez. thank you so much for spending some time with us. >> good to see you both. thank you for having me. >> mike barnicle with the baseball questions first. >> red sox first. go ahead. >> alex, it's great to have you here. thank you for your time tonight. as you know better than most, baseball is the background music of this country, and it's played every day. and the other day bruce springsteen actually said on the

radio, on sirius xm radio, that he really misses baseball and could not wait to take his wife, patty, to a game when it starts up again. so my question to you is the 2020 season going to happen? yes or no? >> i'm certainly hopeful. obviously, mike, as you know, we have to make sure that health comes first. and this is such a fluid virus that it will dictate to us when we play. baseball will not dictate to the virus or the situation on when we play. we have to make sure too that while testing is important for baseball players, i don't think it's a good look that baseball players get tested while the rest of the americans suffer without -- you know, with a lot of uncertainty. so i think there's still a lot of fluid issues that have to be covered. i do believe, though, that if we come ba and we play in arizona whether you have fans or not in the stands, there will be millions and tens of millions of

people watching at home that need medicine. and for some of the audience that are not sports fans, think about a world without music. it's mute. it's sad. it's lonely. that's how sports fans and baseball fans like myself feel right now without the great pastime game. >> yeah. i couldn't agree with you more about seeing baseball and feeling baseball, the taste of baseball, baseball in the newspapers and on tv. but the florida/arizona, let's talk about that a bit. the florida/arizona supposed league, mlb wants to start that up. we're talking 30 teams. that's 780 players. it would be two different states living in quarantined conditions. many of them without their families for a long period of time. have you spoken to any players about this potential league starting up? >> mike, i have. i've spoken to players, coaches, managers, owners.

i've been in constant communication with everybody that has something to do with the game. look, i think overall everybody's concern is health first. and once you've got the health covered, everybody is anxious to get back to playing baseball, and it's such an important part of their lives. and, look, it's funny because people say baseball is too long. i guarantee you there's a lot of fans out there that would love to watch a 3 1/2 or 4-hour game. mike and nicolle, the one caution about playing in arizona, because i've played there for many years, if you're going to do it, you have to think about starting games at 9:00 in the morning or 9:00 p.m. because it's a lot to ask players, coaches and umpires to be out there in the middle of the day in july and august when it's 115. now you open up another can of worms and other health risks. >> so for people who haven't read up on it or are not interested enough to look at the mechanics of the proposed leagues in florida and arizona,

it would be a mixed league. it wouldn't be the american league and the national league as baseball players know it. it would be the red sox confronting the braves as part of a series, a national league term versus an american league team in florida. the d.h. rule, this is a nuts and bolts question for baseball fans who may be watching. the zmd.h. rule, what happens t that? >> well, i don't know. i've been reading, mike, as much as you have, having conversations with central baseball. i think it's fluid. i think it's open-minded. i don't think there's any bad ideas right now, but i will say this. i think covid-19 has an opportunity to be an enormous opportunity for baseball. and while the nba and nfl has lapped us a couple times, i think baseball this year can put the cba, the collective bargaining agreement in the bullpen and say let's serve the fans. let's open up the floodgates.

let's mic players in every single game. let's watch what happens in the batting cages and that is the best way we can get the next generation to fall in love with the game. then let's story tell because we really have the best set of young players i believe in the history of the game, but not enough people know them. mike, you know this better than i do. in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, we knew every lineup from every team, first name and last name. we even knew their hobbies. >> absolutely. >> and we need to get back to some of that. >> alex, last year mike convinced me to take my 8-year-old son to spring training and i was taking him back for a second year. we were supposed to leave on march 14th, which was right when everything shut down. it was the weekend before spring training shut down. and it's not just fans of professional baseball that are missing baseball. it's moms and dads of little leaguers. i mean what is -- i think it's a sport that doesn't know an age boundary, that doesn't really know socioeconomic boundaries. you've got boys clubs of america

and girls clubs that play baseball. what is sort of the collective loss of losing this whole season from the professionals to the little leaguers? >> yeah, that's such a great question, nicolle. if you think about it, we have over 2 million boys and girls playing soft and baseball in little league. it's such an important part of childhood. in those formative years, baseball, little leagues, the boys and girls club was such a big part of my life, such a teacher, part of the development process, learning how to be a good teammate and share the ball ask work in a collaborative way. if you think about this, there's 1,000 young men that would not be drafted because of covid-19. now, they're going to get back and have one more year eligibility and you have all these freshmen coming to college. there's a lot of disruption going on, and it's going to take a little time where it falls in a good place. >> you also think about where baseball is played. there are a lot of people whose work -- i mean just in florida, they work at those stadiums for

that season. and during the long season, they're the stadium workers. are you aware of what the league is doing to protect them? >> well, look, i think there's some things they can do. but, look, when there's no revenue, right? when you go from hundreds of millions to zero, something is going to have to give. and the unemployment numbers, you can see it, is more of a microcosm of what's going on in the u.s. i think overall, nicolle, when you think about baseball, baseball is america's sport. look, when you have a little boy or girl and they're 10 years old, they reach over their favorite blanket or their favorite toy. americans, a sports fan, our comfort food is baseball. we get home every night and at 7:00 you can watch a yankee game, you can watch a red sox game, a mets game, and it's soothing. mike, you know watching baseball like you have for so many years, there is something about it that makes you happy and it's predictable and it's comforting. >> okay, alex. you're here for the baseball. go ahead, mike.

>> i just wanted to ask you quickly, alex. i know you've been very active with youth leagues, with helping kids learn and train about baseball. but i was thinking the other day about all of the high school seniors and college seniors out there who are part of a team, which is a great experience for them. they're not going to go on to pro ball. the high school kids, most of them aren't going to go on to college ball. but the loss of that, talk about the impact of the loss of team feeling for these seniors in high school and college. >> it is heartbreaking because i can tell you that in my entire career, my best year of my life whether it ca when it came to sports and development was my junior year in high school at westminster christian in miami. these young men that i played with are still lifelong friends. we won a world championship in high school, or a u.s. championship, and these are experiences that go on forever. in those years, we have players that went to stanford from my high school, florida state,

notre dame, and they became real successful, and they attribute their junior and senior years, the competition, the virtues learned to those years. so, mike, it's going to be a huge loss. and you hope they either get to replay it or maybe go play in junior college and have those great experiences. >> alex, we're going to ask you to stay with us for a break because when you come back, i know you came for the baseball, but i'm dying to ask how you and jennifer are social distancing together from the rest of the world and what's going on? in just a few minutes, mike and i get to talk to vice president joe biden on where we find faith during the darkest of the times. don't go anywhere. we'll all be right back. [ sirens ] [ cheers and applause ] ♪ it's up to you new york the good neighbor relief program we know our customers are driving less, which means fewer accidents.

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so alex and his family are showing us just because we're all inside to protect our

community doesn't mean we can't have a little fun. ♪ baby come give me something ♪ baby come give me something ♪ because i can't stop lovin' >> from tiktoks to volleyball to games of catch, he and his family have been providing followers with some much needed entertainment and motivation to get out and exercise while social distancing. alex and mike are still here. alex, here's what i'm dying to know. is jennifer wearing sweat pants and eating peanut butter out of the jar like the rest of us? >> yes, yes, yes. she's been in her sweats for an entire month. >> oh, i feel so much better. >> we're having a lot of fun. look, this is a really special opportunity for us. we're always so fluid and traveling so much, for us to be

with the four kids, you know, she's cooking. we're doing things that we really don't do a lot of, you know, whether it's playing board games, chess, checkers. we're playing whiffle ball. we're trying to play a little catch there with emme and jen with her throwing. >> yeah. >> so we're having a lot of fun. at the end of the day, i think we lead the league in this category for sure -- netflix. "tiger king" and tonight we're watching the last episode of "ozark." i can't wait. >> you're also doing business. i know you're hard at work. are you going to buy a baseball team? >> oh, boy. high strike. i thought that would come from the red sox. no, listen, i love baseball obviously. you can tell the passion when i speak about it. i think any kid that grows up, they have dreams of playing in the major leagues and fortunately enough i played for almost 25 years. and i think one day it would be an incredible dream come true if

i was able to own a team. but at this point right now, what we're really working on is doing a lot of videos, trying to raise some money. jennifer and i donated a million meals through wheels up, helping those people in need in the front lines that are truly our heroes and trying to give back and spread a little good energy because people need it right now. >> i guess the question is in the vein of if baseball needs to be brought back, we've talked about all the other people that suffer if the season, heaven forbid, is lost. if baseball needs to be brought back and the opportunity presented itself, you would be interested? i didn't hear a no. >> yeah, i mean look, are you talking about to own a team or to go back to work? >> well, i expect you'll be back at work at espn in your capacity as a commentator. but if there's an opportunity at the end of this crisis to have a bigger role with the team, would you consider it? >> look, nicolle, i'll tell you like we do with any opportunity

to make an acquisition. we just made an acquisition. we bought presidente beer. we did that in partnership with anheuser-busch. if there's a strategic partnership or ownership opportunity, we'll take a look at it like we do everything else. but obviously it would be a dream come true to own a team of what i think is the greatest sport in the world. >> so my last story, this weekend a year ago, i took my son to a yankees game. he went to mets spring training but he went to the yankees game this weekend last year. we saw you and jennifer there. it's a big deal for new york fans to have you guys there as fans. i'm sure most would welcome a bigger role. mike barnicle is going to save you this time from me. mike? >> hey, alex, i can recall that your first trip through the city of boston as a member of the new york yankees. you sought out, called, and spoke with the late jack welch about business opportunities and

business philosophy. and i know that you've been very successful in business. so what your businesses like now? what are your employees like? how are they doing, and how are you doing treating them? >> yeah, it's a great question. thanks for asking, mike. look, in our portfolio, a-rod corp., we own about 25 different companies and i think it's broken up into three tiers. we have a third that are struggling mightily with our thousands of apartment units. unfortunately people cannot -- a lot of them cannot pay their rent. the middle are just kind of floating through. and then the other ones are striving and striving like they never have before. but one of the things that jennifer and i both wanted to do was we reached out and we kind of sent everybody home probably about a week and a half early. and one of the things we did is we sent an email out to our core group management team, and everybody is paid full. we wanted to make sure that we have a platform to show that comfort and that support in really trying times, and we're

proud and happy that we're able to do that for the hundreds that we employ. >> alex, it's so nice to talk to you. thank you so much for spending some time with us tonight. we hope we can keep this conversation going. there's a lot of people worried about the 2020 baseball season. >> yes, and stay strong. this too shall pass, and we'll be back bigger and better than ever. >> from your lips. i hope so. here hoping. thank you. perhaps no figure in american politics has a deeper understanding of keeping the faith during the most difficult times than our next guest. joining me and mike by phone is the likely democratic nominee joe biden. mr. vice president, how are you doing this weekend? >> hey, nicolle, how are you? we're doing fine. we're better off than most. jill and i are together, and our kids, both children of my deceased sons, they live only about a half mile as the crow flies. they come over and sit in the backyard. we sit on the porch and talk. we're going to do an easter egg

hunt tomorrow, just got done coloring the eggs. and my other children are scattered around the country, my grandchildren. but everyone, thank god, seems good. >> what is the role of faith? you've been so public about how your faith has helped you through tragedies that you've shared. you've grieved in public. but a lot of people, thousands of people have lost loved ones to covid since it's gripped our country. thousands of people are scared, scared of getting sick and scared of losing their jobs and scared of what's ahead. what can we do? how has faith helped you? what advice do you have? >> well, i've always -- i know it sounds strange. mike knows this. i feel a little self-conscious talking about faith. but the terrible things that happened to me, a lot have happened to other people and worse. but in my case, they've all been public, so it's harder, i find it at least more difficult to grieve in public. but i've found there's that

great phrase from the philosopher keerk ca guard who says faith sees best in the dark. and for me it has been my solace and my security. when my wife and daughter were killed in an automobile accident when i first got to the u.s. senate and my two boys were badly injured, i kind of lost my faith for a while. but the boys -- my boys sort of brought it back. what i found was that i found solace and knowledge and the belief -- and i'm not proselytizing here -- that for me it was a place where i could go, a private place. i go to mass. i sit in the pew, and it was like i was all by myself even though the church could be crowded. it was a place for me just to -- just a comfort zone where i was. i was raised in a catholic family, not that it wouldn't be any different in any other family.

i went to catholic grade school, and the church just sort of became a foundational place for me. it just was a place of security. it was like, you know, saying the rosary for me is like i guess for some people meditating. so i found a lot of faith and the belief that they're all still part of me. bo is my soul and still there. so i found that it gave me purpose, and i think for most people, they find it different ways when they go through something very, very difficult. it's very hard to find purpose, a sense of purpose in your life. and for me, i always found it through my faith. i wore out a lot of rosaries. >> can you -- you know, i cry every day when i go running so my little boy doesn't see me. can you understand people that don't have faith and can't find an explanation? >> i sure do. >> what would you say to us?

>> look, i don't think you have to have faith vis-á-vis religion. i think you have to have faith in terms of what you're part of. you know, as you run and cry, the thing i'd just remind you of and you will be reminded of is that beautiful son you have, your little boy. look, i remember when, you know, everybody used to say and mike talked to me about this one time, that after my children were injured in that accident where they lost their mother and their sister, i started commuting every day from d.c. because i didn't plan on staying. and i've made, they tell me, over 2 million miles round trip on amtrak. they thought, isn't he nice guy he goes home to see his kids every night. no. i needed my kids.

i'd go home and scratch their back no matter what time it is. wee we'd say three hail marys and go to sleep. it wasn't so much faith. it was a connection. i'm not making it more spiritual than it is. it was just a connection. and they're the ones that got me through. what i feel terribly, terribly badly for is those people who have gone through a lot more than i have and don't have anybody. they're doing it themselves. they're real heroes. every day they get up and put one foot in front of the other and they go out. for the longest time, i didn't -- i just lost my faith. i didn't think -- how could a benevolent god do something like that kind of thing. i'm sitting at my desk here, and i have a -- i told mike this before. there is a cartoon that i have that was from my dad. i guess i was feeling badly about myself one day long after my kids had -- my wife had died. it's a cartoon .

he went up to a hallmark shop, and he bought two frames and this glass brass frame. it's about eight inches long and a couple inches high. and it's a picture of hagar the horrible. he used to be a cartoon character. and you see his dragon ship has crashed into the rocks, and he's standing on top of the rocks, and his ship's aflame. and he's yelling up to god, he yells, why me, god? and the voice -- the next frame, a voice from heaven comes down and says, why not? >> yeah. >> why not? what makes you so special it's not going to happen to you. but i just think that it's -- you know, finding purpose is what got me engaged in a whole lot of things that i do. but i think it's just -- but it doesn't even have to be. i'm going to get in a lot of

trouble with religious folk out there, but it doesn't even have to be religious. it's just something that gives you the ability to go inside yourself and just find some peace. >> mike barnicle. >> mr. vice president, tomorrow is easter sunday. we've gone through good friday. we've had passover. many churches and temples have been closed. but to your point about faith and purpose, you can have both faith and distinct purpose brought to you from your faith without ever entering the doors of a cathedral. >> you can say that again. >> you can have that just carrying the rosaries in your pocket each and every day. but i get the sense from walking around and going around -- as you know, i don't do much other than walk around. there seems to be an empathy drought in america today, an empathy drought. what do we do about that?

>> well, mike, i know maybe -- you know, i'm characterized, you know, that i'm a congenital optimist. but i think we're going to come out of this god awful thing we're going through now, and i think people are going to have a much greater appreciation and a sense of what everybody else was going through. i don't think there's a lot of people in some of the neighborhoods i live in now or that you all are in that really ever, you know, walked out and, you know, thanked that guy or that woman who kept the drain in the sewer from clogging so your basement didn't flood. i don't think anybody thought much about the guy who is stacking the oranges in the produce -- in the fruit counter, you know, at the supermarket. i don't think people thought a whole lot about the most incredible people in the world, the nurses. they're angels in heaven, the men and women who are nurses.

and i think all of a sudden there's this dawning on people that there's no way they could make it without these quiet, silent heroes. >> mm-hmm. >> i'm really proud. i know this sounds corny, but i'm really proud to be an american. i talked about with mike and i think you too, nicolle, about i thought we had to restore the soul of america. we're seeing the soul of america now. we're seeing so many incredibly decent, honorable people doing things in many cases they never thought they were going to do, just stepping up. and i don't know. i think, you know, we're the only country i'm aware of, when we've created or inherited a great crisis, have come out stronger than we went in it. i think this is one of those revelatory moments where people are going holy god, i didn't realize that. that person does all that and gets paid $9 an hour or $7 an hour. you mean that person risked their life and lost their life

because of that? when is the last time i stopped in a firehouse and said to the guys thanks. i don't know who the hell you are, but thanks. you see it now and you see people responding to it. >> everyday heroes. you're right. silver linings. vice president joe biden, thank you for spending some time with me and mike. we're grateful. >> mike, my walter mitty dream wasn't to be president. it was to be rodriguez. >> next time we'll make sure you guys overlap. >> i could put it on the line from center field. anyway, all right. >> yep. >> thank you. >> i believe it. >> have a great weekend. >> see you, you guys. >> when mike and i come back, we will ask when we return to america, will life be normal? can it ever be like it was before? ken burns and claire mccaskill will try to answer that next. don't go anywhere. flonase relieves your worst symptoms

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maximum's athletics won the world championship, 4-1. two weeks later, the stock market crashed. the great depression that would hit the country would hit baseball too and for the next ten years, the nation and the national pasttime would struggle to survive. >> so even major league baseball wasn't immune to the impacts of the great depression as ken burns recalls in his documentary series "baseball" but that crisis also forced the league to eye involve and the all-star game debuted in 1933 and now the game that so many love and are missing might be forced to innovate again. joining my conversation, creator of the miniseries, ken burns is here and my represented and colleague former senator from missouri, claire mccaskill. mike is still here as well. ken, your thoughts on this moment and you have the longer lens of history. what do you think the future of

baseball hold. >> in a larger american sense apart from baseball this is as big a moment as world war ii is for another generation. i don't know of anything in our lifetime that comes close to it. baseball has always been extraordinarily resilient and i find myself agreeing with alex rodriguez for the very first time. that it's going to come through okay, so i couldn't help but be struck by your conversation about faith with vice president biden that we too often think that the opposite of faith is doubt. it's not. it's certainly and i think part of these days have reminded us that our faith is actually strengthened. things will never be the same again and i don't think in a way we want them to go back to exactly the way they were. we want something to be made of this and we certainly want our national pastime to come back in the old familiar forms and ways

that it did by certainly think that maybe what's happened to us we have sequestered ourselves and as joe biden suggested our emotions might change. that empathy might -- we might have a great cleansing and so i lament for my baseball team and mike will appreciate this. you know, we're -- >> claire won't. >> yeah, i got -- i got to jump if here. first of all, i adore ken burns' documentaries. i certainly recommend people if they've got time on their hands which they do right to you to watch "the roosevelts." my husband and i just finished it. it will restore your faith in how well america can do when we're challenged. i will say i thought "baseball"

didn't give enough about the st. louis cardinals according to my taste but i think the only thing i worry about, nicolle and tomorrow is a glorious holiday for my faith, and it's when we're supposed to be optimistic but i do worry about how comfortable we'll be about being in big crowds. and ken burns has put an amazing eloquent lens on many times in our country where big crowds have gathered. whether it's civil rights marches or whether it's fourth of july gatherings or whether it's sports, we're going to have to overcome at some point on this natural fear that we're developing over gathering together because it is also uniquely american and i want to make sure that we don't lose sight of that as we move through this crisis and get to the other side. >> mike has been with me all hour. you get the last worth of the hour. >> well, you know, nicolle,

listening to all the guests we've had in this hour, this is our moment. this is the country's moment. this is sort of a bizarre gift that's been given to us to sort of ask us how resilient we are. because we've known and we've lived with the fact that very few, less than 1% serve our country in the united states military. we've lived with the fact that very, very few, a small percentage of billionaires and millionaires have lived very well and there's the vast middle but now coronavirus affects everyone potentially. we are all one literally. we are in this all together. and to see how resilient we end up being through all of this is going to be another ultimate definition of what america is all about. >> i needed another hour with all of you. i'm so sorry to have so little time, mike, claire, ken, thank you soap and thanks for letting

us florida your home during this extraordinary time. we hope you'll join us monday at 4:00 p.m. for "deadline" but joshua johnson picks up our coverage after a quick break. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression... or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. while most of the world is being asked to stay inside, there are people out there giving it their all.

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♪ hey there, i'm joshua johnson. and msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's good to be with you tonight because we can start with good news that will provide some relief.