relationship. right? and i work very, very hard to make sure that relationship works. that is a prime relationship for our state's response. i work with local governments all across the state. sometimes it's less coordinated than we would like. but, you know, that happens when you are dealing with a lot of local governments. but we have to work with new jersey, connecticut, optimum, we come up with one plan for all three states. that would be great. if we can't come up with the exact same plan, similar plans, because we have a tri-state work force. right? you have people who live in west chester who work in connecticut. you have people who live in connecticut who work in new york city. people who live in new york city who work in new jersey. this all works as one or it doesn't work. transportation works with economic development, works with

housing, works with schools or it doesn't work. you can't have one gear spinning if the other gears aren't spinning. that doesn't work. you can't have new york city work without nassau, westchester, jersey and connecticut. about a third of the work force in new york city comes from outside of new york city or leaves new york city to go work in that area. so it's got to work for the whole region or it doesn't work. >> certainly. but how will you respond to localities that might say, we're going to shut down -- we're going to be continued to shut down maybe after the state would like them to be shut down? how would you respond to a locality who does that? how are you planning to manage that relationship? >> look, it is -- i work cooperatively with all the local governments. i hope nassau, suffolk, new york

city, westchester, new jersey, connecticut, we can all get on the same page. that's the ideal. but at the end of the day, there's one page. right? there's one page and there's one plan. hopefully, suffolk agrees, nassau agrees, westchester agrees, new york city agrees. you know? but you do the best you can to come up with mutual agreement. but at the end of the day, you have one plan and that's the plan you have to go with. >> when you say there's one plan, one page, are you talking about your own plan there, governor? >> no. why don't we do this again for you? i know it's sunday. new jersey, connecticut, new york, that's the trick to come up with one page. how do you get three states to agree on one plan? and it's hard.

coordination is -- you know, coordination is great. but it's difficult. and it requires compromise. but it's also the right way do it. for each of the three states, it's easiest for each state to say, you know what, i'm going to do pmy own thing. i'm connecticut, i'm going to do a connecticut plan. why do i have to coordinate with new jersey or new york? for me, it's easier to say i'm goi ining to do one plan, a newk state plan. why do i coordinate with governor murphy and lamont? it's easier to do it alone. except, it's better to do it together. and in this situation, we need to do the best product that we can do for the people. and that's where i start. the best product is to come up with a plan that new jersey,

connecticut and new york can all execute simultaneously, which is what we have done to date. right? we made very difficult decisions together. and we implemented them together. because we were very aware of the interplay between these pieces. and our regional work force. you take an action in new jersey that's inconsistent with what i'm doing in new york, you put people in a very difficult position. because they live in jersey, they work in new york or they live in new york and they work in jersey. coordinate. if i'm out there, i say coordinate. i know it's a pain in the neck, but that's what i pay you for. so ideally we all get on the same page. >> you mentioned in your presentation -- there are 58

descri drive-in theaters in new york state. what are your thoughts on drive-in theaters becoming an essential business, let's say, because people could sit in their car, they are not interacting, they get the movie piped into their car, even through the radio, i believe. is there a way that people could at least get out and see movies through drive-in? >> that's a good question. why -- >> it hasn't been raised yet to my knowledge. >> here it is. i'm going to advance your argument. where is the public safety issue? it's a drive-in theater. you are in the car with the same people. >> it's the employees. if you make it non-essential, the employees have to show up to operate the theater. the question is, you are then making those employees essential workers. because they would be accepted.

they would have to interact to operate. that's what it is for most of the businesses. it's the employees then have to show up, they would have to perform the service. they essentially are putting themselves as risk. that's the discussion we have each time there's an exception. >> the drive-in movie association, there is one, believe it or not, wants to be considered -- >> i'm going to argue your argument. i'm going to argue empire state development is making these decisions. they're all tricky decisions, by the way. you are trying to balance the need here. but i see your point. i will talk to esd about it. >> how would you characterize your working relationship with bill de blasio right now? >> i understand the mayor's position. he represents new york city. the position of i think schools should be closed, that's not an unreasonable position. he doesn't have to worry about nassau, suffolk, new jersey, connecticut.

but i do. >> the new york city -- >> do you have something for the homeless problem as it relates to covid-19. they said you can't force homeless people into a shelter. but there's a local government saying you have to enforce social distancing, i feel like it's not likely that a fine for a homeless person is going to be effective. >> i worked with the homeless since i was in my 20s. a fine for the homeless is not going to be effective. you can't force a homeless person into a shelter unless -- they are endangering their own lives or others. leaving that aside, the shelters do have to operate under those guidelines. whatever facility is operating by the local government has to adhere to those guidelines.

>> the new york city health department yesterday said they are running out of the swabs to do the tests. have they been in contact with you? does the state have a surplus or reserve? >> of the testing swabs? i have not heard that. >> we haven't received that. we will check after today and see if they have gotten in touch with us. >> as part of the executive order, is the state going to be issuing masks or some public sector employers? >> yes. speak to that. >> you are an essential worker. you should be protected. you shouldn't have to go out -- >> alright. we have been listening to andrew cuomo as he is trying to put forth a unified plan of action with the tri-state area, addressing a lot of issues. we will continue monitoring all this in our control booth. i bid you a good day and happy easter for those celebrating. a bit past high noon in the east.

welcome, everyone. we have this breaking news on the coronavirus pandemic. there are now more than half a million confirmed cases across this country. look at that, 21,290 people have died. the president grapples with a public health and economic crisis. questions loom about when to reopen this country. this morning dr. anthony fauci said we can expect a rolling reentry back to normalcy. >> it is not going to be a light switch that we say, okay, it is now june, july, whatever, click, the light switch goes back on. it's going to be depending where you are in the country, the nature of the outbreak that you have already experienced and the threat of an outbreak that you may not have experienced. i think it's going to have to be something that is not one size fits all. >> a live report from the white house in a minute. first, boris johnson was released this morning from the hospital where he was being treated for coronavirus. the prime minister spent three

nights in icu. he will continue his recovery at his country home. the irs sent out relief checks. the agent tweeting it will continue issuing payments, quote, as fast as they can. people who have filed tax returns for 2018 and 2019 and authorized direct deposit will be the first to see the money. people who haven't filed or received social security will probably have to wait a few more weeks to get their checks. we are getting reaction to potential new dates for reopening this country. let's go to monica alba at the white house with more on this holiday sunday. with a welcome to you. is there anything specific here? >> reporter: happy easter. remember, this was the original date that the president in mind for when he wanted to see some people go back to work, go back to church. he wanted those pews packed. later admitted that was really an aspirational deadline. as we sit here three weeks from

when the current national guidelines are set to expire, the president is looking to may 1 as the possibility for certain sectors of the economy to reopen. when pressed this morning, the fda commissioner didn't want to commit to that exact time line given how little we know still about what might happen between now and then. take a listen. >> given what you know -- given what you know, is may 1 a good target when you look at it now? >> it is a target. obviously, we're hopeful about that target. i think it's just too early to be able to tell that. we see light at the end of the tunnel. dr. fauci, dr. birx have said that. we see the incredible resiliencesy of tresilience of the american people. so that gives me great hope. but i think it's just too early for us to say whether may 1 is that day. more to come on that as we learn more information and as our planning proceeds.

>> reporter: a lot of questions that remain to be answered on how that would actually work and the president is hoping to get some guidance from a new council he is forming on opening up the economy. he is said to unveil the names of who is participating on tuesday. he told us it will be some business leaders, some health professionals, some lawmakers and elected leaders. he will take all of their information to try to make a very important decision which he has signalled is really the biggest of his entire presidency to date. ultimately, while he will rely on these experts and these facts he said one of the most important things is going to be his own gut instincinstinct. there are no briefings today. most are off for easter. the task force which did meet yesterday has nothing right now on the guidance in terms of meeting. it seems they are taking the day to reassess before pushing ahead tomorrow. >> in terms of the president using his gut instinct, that's

raising eyebrows with some. will talk about that later in this hour. thank you, monica, for that. new york is the epicenter of the pandemic with almost 181,000 cases recorded. new york city is baring the brunt of that. the most recent numbers available show almost 99,000 cases and up to as many as 6,300 deaths. testing is ramping up in minority numbers. let's go to corcorey. you heard the governor wrapping up his briefing. what are the highlights you heard from that today? >> reporter: yeah. a lot of activity out here. here at the javits center, we have seen troops coming in and out. seeing supplies coming in. quite a bit happening out here in manhattan this morning. when it comes to the press briefing, it was interesting to hear details on his thoughts on how exactly we're going to reopen the state of new york and

how that's going to be a coordinated effort between the three cities. he also thanked a nursing home. we saw that earlier today where he was able to give 35 ventilators back to that nursing home thanking them for their donation of letting different hospitals downstate borrow those ventilators at a much needed time. he said, now returning those, he is happy to repay the favor calling them angels. it was nice to have see that kind of handoff earlier today. it was also nice to hear about how we're doing when it comes to trying to slow this and flatten the curve. we heard from mayor de blasio about the plateau earlier today. he spoke about the fact that the need for ventilators is going down as well. take a listen. >> a week ago, it was 200 to 300 more people each day coming in. every day, 200 or 300 more than the day before. we thought that was even going to go up more.

today, i can tell you that number has gone down again. 70 more people per day is what we are seeing on average. i don't want anyone to mishear it. it's not things are definitively, clearly, permanently getting better. it's still 70 more people each day. but it's a lot fewer than what we feared. >> reporter: mayor de blasio speaking about intubation. he said when it comes to personal protection equipment, they are -- if you think about crisis mode they are in as far as having to make sure that they clean these items and reuse them, he said they are at a good amount but will continue to need them the following week. both cuomo and de blasio talked about ramping up in testing. the more new yorkers that he can antibody test, the more americans that can be antibody tested, the more that can go

back to work. issuing two executive orders today. one of which is requiring any workers who are essential in the state of new york to be required -- to be wearing these face masks now. employers will need to provide these face coverings. >> you are an example of that. thank you. joining me now, medical contributor dr. roy. she's an internal medicine physician and science contributor. joseph fairer, an epidemiologist. welcome to you both. we heard dr. fauci talk about this gradual return to normalcy. what do you think that looks like? can you even guess when that might be? >> you know, i think everybody's lives is going to be separated into precovid-19 and post. when you think when we will get to normal is in phases. it's not all going to be at once. an example would be, sit-down restaurants or bars, places

where we have the most intimate connections with one another, the most close contact with one another and mass gatherings, those types of things are going to have to open up slowly. ones that aren't doing business now, they will have a limited number of people in the building available to seat in the building at the same time, that type of thing. that's just based on lessons that we're seeing out of china where they tried to open up and some of that backfired. now they have gone back to more strict regulations. >> dr. fauci spoke about the november election and how this country might deal with the potential second wave of the virus. here is what he said about that. >> there is always the possibility as that -- as we get into next fall and the beginning of early winter that we could see a rebound. hopefully, hopefully what we have gone through now and the capability that we have for much, much better testing capability, much, much better

surveillance capability and the ability to respond with countermeasures, with drugs that work, that it will be an entirely different ball game. >> i'm curious your response to that. do you think the country will be equipped to deal with another round of the virus later this year? >> it's good to be with you again. to put things into perspective, in the hour or so it took to get ready, come to the studio, get mike and talk to you, we lost 30 new yorkers. if we rush back to work and life as we used to know it before it's safe, that 30 will balloon to 40, 50 if not higher. we are seeing this second wave in places like china. we know from history of thousands of epidemics that we had over the course of history and human kind that if we rush back, if we don't practice social or physical isolation, there's the social and economic devastation that's been unleashed by this epidemic will continue.

so we really need to be very careful, follow the data. dr. fauci has said that the model is hypothetical but the data is real. we need to continue practicing the stay at home practices or else it's just -- the death toll will continue to rise. >> absolutely. if that were to happen, if there was a second wave, what might that look like? would we deal with another stay at home orders? in terms of viruses and how they mutate, develop or move forward, i guess, could it be less severe? >> i don't think it would be less severe. if it follows anything we have seen in the past, the 1918 influenza, the second wave was the most deadly wave of the virus. it didn't kill that many people the firstreally worry about it. when it came back in the fall, it killed around -- the upper end of the spectrum, 50 million people. that was before we had mass transit and a globalized world. this second wave, i don't by any means we can consider it less

severe. we can say for something we can control is that we're better prepared to deal with the second wave with regard to our stockpiles of ppe and the amount of training -- trained individuals we have giving relief to people that have been on the front lines since the beginning. if there is some kind of lapse, we need to start thinking about those things and preparing for that next wave. >> that same question to you. it is notable joseph makes the point that the second wave of the 1918 flu pandemic was more lethal. your thoughts on this as well if we were to experience a second wave. >> yeah. i'm glad he brought up the 1918 influenza epidemic. the cities around the world that did the best in terms of the lowest total mortality practiced stringent controls in terms of social isolation, ban on public gatherings, school closures. only time will tell but based on history, we know we have data showing if we don't take these

measures seriously, these public health measures, that we know are successful, i'm just afraid, especially from a medical standpoint, the burden this will bear on health care professionals. we are at a shortage and that will continue. it takes years to train health care professionals who are actively getting sick and dieing. we have to have a really careful, systematic approach in terms of how we move forward. >> all right. thank you both so much for your insight. we move to pennsylvania. the coronavirus shutdown has turned this drive-in movie theater into a church. easter services are being held today while abiding by length officials' guidelines. this concept is catching on. we saw it earlier with some driving into church as we last spoke with you. it's a car thing here. car church. talk about this setup. >> reporter: what you see behind

me is easter service number five here. there are 200 cars here now. just over my shoulder you should see the pastor on a platform. there was a band up there earlier. after some prayers, you will hear hanking as people gather in to say amen. it's not the typical church service one would expect on easter sunday. people are really working to come together amid social distancing and have the sense of community. i want to note, we got updated numbers for the state of pennsylvania. there's about 23,000 positive cases in the state and over 500 deaths now. here in the lehigh valley, they have seen a higher infection rate than a lot of other counties in the state. it's about five times the average of the statewide infection rate. here in this area, they have been shutting down businesses way back to mid march. the church has been here a couple weeks because they looked for a way to have an alternative option to get the community and sense of hope for their

congregation. here in the area, there's a lot of talk about potential temporary hospital site that could be here and a mass testing site the state is looking at because of the high infection rate as workers here focus in on warehouses, manufacturing. some of them go into work with the fear they might be infected. i was chatting with the pastor here yesterday. he was talking about some of the anxiety, fear his congregation is feeling. he wanted everyone to come together on easter sunday to feel that sense of hope and the light after darkness, the message here on easter sunday. i chatted with a couple of churchgoers in their car earlier this morning. here is what marilyn told me. she really appreciates she's not home alone right now. take a listen. >> i love my lord and savior, jesus. i just wanted to be here to celebrate the most important day of life, most important day ever. that's the resurrection of jesus christ. i didn't want to be home alone. even though i'm in my car alone,

i'm not alone. >> reporter: marilyn one of many people across the country looking for that light at the end of the tunnel of this pandemic. >> i just love this story. let me just reiterate what you said. when we hear the honks, those were churchgoers saying amen. you have heard si have you heard singing? >> everything is pumped through the radio systems. there's also speakers so you can hear the music, enjoy the fresh air, sunlight we saw earlier this morning. it's a joyous easter here. >> indeed. thank you for that. we have this breaking news about dangerous weather on this easter sunday. two confirmed tornadoes touched down in central texas early this morning. crews are assessing the damage there. severe weather and flash flooding now threatening millions of people from texas to tennessee as well as into the southeast. tornadoes, heavy rain, damaging

winds all possible. last night's severe storms dropped hail in texas. nearly four inches across there. look at that person hearing about what four inches falling from the sky there. that's the size of a softball if you put it in perspective, causing extensive damage to vehicles, roofs and windows. the facts that are most critical when decides when to reopen this country. an economist joins me next. customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? given my unique lifestyle, that'd be perfect! let me grab a pen and some paper. know what? i'm gonna switch now. just need my desk... my chair... and my phone. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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developing today, president trump weighing the question, when do we reopen parts of the economy? he is caught between economic urgency and public health. joining me is a professor at the university of chicago. also former chairman of the council of economic advisors during the obama administration. good to have you. thanks for spending part of this holiday with me. as we look at the facts, you know, they have to be critical

in making this kind of decision. which ones are the most critical? which boxes need to be checked before the trump administration does this? >> well, look, the number one box in virus economics is that you have to have containment on the spread of that virus before you can do anything to restore the economics. that's the key. it's not a date. the president is not the boss. the governors are not the boss. the mayors are not the boss. the virus is the boss. so we have to get a handle on the spread of the virus. one way that some countries have succeeded at doing that, if you look at korea, taiwan, iceland, a few countries where they have gotten out of lockdown, they did it through massive testing. much more, 10x per person than what we have done in the united states. because you can slow the spread of the virus if you take almost all the infected people and you get them to quarantine. this idea that we're going to

just say, well, the economy is suffering, so, therefore, the president is going to declare everybody should leave their house, that's not going to work. he doesn't have the legal authority to do that. b, you can tell people it's safe all the want. if they don't believe it, they're going to stay home. so we have to get control of this virus through testing probably. >> on the heels of what you said, listen to what the president predicts will happen and the economy does open back up. here is that. >> i think the stimulus coupled with this pent-up demand and everybody wanting to get out and go back to work, i think we're going to have a -- just a t tremendous surge. it's going to be like a rocket sh ship. >> will business boom? >> look, i hope so. the two key questions are, even if business booms, we have had in the last three weeks the

worst three weeks in the history of the american job market wherewhere by a factor of more than ten more people lost their jobs than have lost jobs before. the gdp and our incomes have fallen faster than they have fallen before. even if it comes back as a rocket ship, will it take us back to where we were before this started? then there's a second question of will it be a rocket ship? the program they design in the first round of the $2 trillion rescue, they are having a hard time getting the money out the door. they are sending some of the stimulus checks out. that's great. the unemployment insurance system, which is where the biggest share of money going to individuals has to go through, almost every state is completely overloaded. people cannot file and get their money. on the small business side where they are trying to prevent those bankruptcies, most banks haven't even agreed to make any of the

loans. they are having a hard time getting the money out the door. execution risk of what we have already passed is really high. the government needs to sit down and start dotting the is, crossing the ts and making sure the money gets out the door. otherwise, this thing could turn into a permanent slowdown, not a temporary slowdown. >> okay. so if more businesses start opening up next month or soon thereafter, when do you think americans will start buying the big budget items? when are they going to head to a sporting event, hop on airports? what opening will it be? will it be staggered? >> yeah, i would think it would be staggered. both in geographic location and in what kinds of businesses reopen. frankly, i think if you were saving up money to go on the cruise of a lifetime, i think it's going to be a long time before cruise lines are back

open and people are going to be willing to go take cruises. at the same time, if your dryer has been thunking in the basement and you want to buy a new dryer, that's the thing that could come back more rapidly. it's not a very socially int interactive business. it probably will be staggered. >> come on back and see us any time. i appreciate your insight. have a great easter. thank you. >> thanks for having me. more than a month and counting. a health care worker explains why she's still under isolation after having coronavirus. let's go to milan's opera house orchestra, launching an appeal to musicians around the world. they want to wish doctors, nurses and other hospital staff a happy easter. they are asking anyone with any musical ability to join them in playing. here is some of what they want to hear. it's beautiful. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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breaking news in the coronavirus pandemic. new numbers announced today push the total confirmed cases to more than 520,000 in the united states, more than 20,000 people have died. in new jersey, non-essential businesses have been closed for just over three weeks now. the state's governor said today, he is not focused on plans to reopen. instead, governor murphy says he is worried about making sure health care workers have what they need. >> we're fighting to stay ahead on bed capacity, ventilators that are constantly running thin, the medicine you need for those ventilators, the personal protective equipment and the relief from the bullpen for our health care workers. we are every minute of every day on all of those fronts doing everything we can to stay out ahead of it. >> in florida, more than 40,000

disney world employees will be furloughed next week in the first big wave of temporary layoffs. those workers will still have access to health and education benefits. they can apply for unemployment. in california, antibody testing is underway to determine how widespread the coronavirus is there. researchers will be testing about 1,000 randomly selected residents with a finger rick. officials this could help determine when the area could safely reopen. we will have reporting on this from las vegas. new today, a warning from a johns hopkins public health expert that the u.s. should not read too much into the flattening of the curve being celebrated in some states. >> it looks like in the last few days, if you look across the country and you average out the numbers, that we are near a plateau in the number of cases, which would be reaching a peak. it doesn't mean that the downslodown

slope could be fast. it could be this plateau carries on for a while. we have seen in other countries where they have started to have lower case counts over time that it can take days and weeks for the numbers to even get cut in half. >> joining me now, congress wom kim schweier. happy easter if you are celebrating. as we look at washington state, it's a little ahead of the rest of the majority of the country in dealing with this crisis. certainly was the first. do the doctor's words resonate with you? >> well, absolutely. i think that's so true that i think a lot of the country is thinking about this as an on/off switch. the reality is that when you flatten a curve, what you do is you avoid completely overwhelming the medical system, which we have seen in new york. you also lengthen the curve. so we're going to be dealing with this for a very long time.

so reentry into our kind of return to normal life, i don't think that's happening in a full way any time soon. >> as we look at the numbers from washington state, still more than 10,000 cases. you have 491 deaths recorded. overall, where do you see the state in terms of managing this? have your needs been met, the ppe supplies, those kinds of things? >> first of all, i have to give a huge shoutout to our governor and state and local public health departments who have been phenomenal. they have taken the science seriously, enacted social distancing, closed schools, closed down non-essential businesses before others. we have still though been fighting this with one or both hands tied behind our back because our hospitals and front line workers do not have the protection that they need. we still do not have the robust

level of testing that we need. the reality is that before we can even talk about reopening our economy, we need a couple things in place. we need to see a couple weeks of a downturn in the number of new cases. we also need to have such robust testing that we can test anybody with symptoms, get a quick answer, isolate them, contact trace all of the people around them and quarantine them. but in addition, we have to have baseline surveillance so we can find hot spots within our state, within the country and make sure we enact tighter constraints there. that, by the way, is not even close to in sight because i haven't seen a really forceful effort from the administration to get that equipment. >> so when you say a couple of weeks as we look at the calendar, it's april 12, the president proposed, a notion of

reopening the country by may 1. i'm going to guess you don't think your state will be in a position to do that nor any other state in this union. is that true? >> i think reopening is going to be slow, first of all. i think we're going to be backing out of this the same way we backed in. let me give you perspective. estimates thus far without adequate data suggest that we're only going to have 2% of washingt washingtonians immune by june 1. we are just as vulnerable as we were before. if we put everybody back to restaurants and crowds and schools, we are just asking for another peak. this really needs to be done in baby steps with adequate surveillance. so we know the situation on the ground and we don't get caught flatfooted. >> a lot of people are listening to this conversation, particularly those in washington who are listening to the health concerns, of course.

but there's a bad economic situation there with at least half a million people having lost jobs in your state. how are people coping? they hear this and they are thinking, we just need to get back to work. we're not going to be able to pay our bills. what are you hearing from them? what are you advising them to do? >> that is exactly what i'm hearing. this is really hard. it's hard on the whole economy. i'm hearing this from boeing workers. i'm hearing this from housecleaners and nannies. i'm hearing this from small businessowners. it's really, really tough. the reality is that this is not an either or. the public health elements of how we deal with this and the economy, those are intertwined. we can't do one without simultaneously doing the other. if i were going to send one message to the administration, it would be, this is a matter of national security. we need to produce masks, gowns, test kits, swabs, everything we

need right here in the united states that we can do it, we're behind the curve. it's not too late to start. that's what we're going to need to restart our economy. >> it's good to see you again. stay safe and healthy. let's go now to a coronavirus saga we are re-visiting. joining me a nurse in colorado. we spoke with lisa three weeks ago after she had first tested positive for coronavirus. that happened on march 8. she's been self-isolating ever since. it's been a long five weeks for you. quite a roller coaster journey. i welcome you on this easter sunday. where do things stand? i understand you thought you were cleared but now maybe not? >> so i'm on day number 36 of isolation. march 8th i had my original test. about two weeks later, i had a false negative. then they retested me again.

i have had two positives since. so i decided as a health care provider to follow the most conservative, strict test-based strategy which is to get two negative covid-19 tests 24 hours apart before i go back to work. i have not been able to achieve that yet. so i'm just waiting. i'm hanging out at my house. i did another test on april 9. i'm waiting to hear back from that test. they did send my test to the state health department and the state health department sent it to the cdc and they took a blood specimen as well because i'm still shedding the virus. >> it's been three days since that test. you wait for the results. you talk about shedding the virus. why do you think it's taking your body so long? is this normal? >> well, i think it might be normal. a lot of the research that i

have read says after you have no symptoms eight days, you can still shed the virus if it was a mild case. if it's moderate, severe or critical, you can shed the virus for longer. i also participated in an antibody study that we have going on in our local valley. my igt and igm and iga are positive as well. just still actively shedding the virus. i don't foe how long itknow howg to take. i have a health care worker that's a friend. she's testing positive. she decided to do the test as well. at day 28, she's shedding virus. it's concerning as a health care worker that they are saying that the standards is we can return back to work after seven days, resolution of symptoms and no favor and no shorten of breath or cough.

it's worrisome. it's dangerous. >> it is. i hope you are able to get the confirmation you need so you can go back to work. i can tell you want to. for what it's worth, you look and sound healthy. i hope that's a really good sign, lisa. we look forward to speaking with you again on the other side of this. sg >> i will. i'm feeling a lot better. taking apart the time line in the coronavirus response. who or what stopped the president from taking action? yes. the first word to any adventure. but when allergies and congestion strike,

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obviously, if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. but there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then. >> dr. fauci acknowledging earlier intervention may have saved more lives as reports that top officials called for social distancing in february. the trump administration's announcement on mitigation came nearly a month later. joining me now, peter baker, an msnbc political analyst. good to see you on easter sunday. thanks for spending part of it with me. walk us through the time line here as reported by you and your colleagues. who or what stopped the president from taking action as soon as he was warned about a potential pandemic? >> it's a great question. it's one of the central questions we're going to be focusing on for a long time. how did this happen? how did this play out this way? the reporting that my colleagues have done this morning i think lay out in very, very stark

terms many instances where people in the government and outside the government saw what was coming and tried too get enough attention at the top level, including the president, to focus on it. even the president's own trade adviser wrote a memo warning that half a million people could die from the coronavirus. the president was asked about that this last week. he says he never saw t. our reporting is he was told about it. he was mad at peter navarro reporting that on paper. the health and human services secretary called the president at one point while he was on air force one to warn him that this could be a pandemic of great proportions. the president called him an alarmist. it got so frustrating for the doctors and experts working on this, they created their own secret email exchange they called red dawn. that's a reference to the movie in the 1980s when the teenagers are trying to save america from a soviet threat in which they

expressed how aggravated they were nothing was lig elistening. the country wasn't moving fast enough to respond to the threat. >> very disturbing in terms of the reporting. the white house issued a response, not surprisingly this surprisingly this morning. while the media and democrats refused to seriously acknowledge the virus in january and february, president trump took bold action to protect americans and unleash the full power of the federal government to curb the spread of the virus, expand testing capacity and expedite vaccine very many when we had no true idea the level of transmission or asymptomatic spread. can you address, peter, the bold action referenced by the white house, mitigation wasn't enacted by most calendars until march. >> yeah, i think what they're talking about there is something the president talks about a lot which is his decision on january 29th to restrict travel coming from china. they restricted nonamericans coming into the country who had

been in the china for the last 14 days. dr. fauci and others said that was an important step and that, in fact, did probably help reduce the spread of the infections. the problem is they didn't follow that up with an aggressive testing regimen right away or to prevent -- to use the time that travel restriction was buying. the travel restriction wasn't stopping the inflection from coming here, it was slowing it down and the government didn't use that extra time they had bought by doing what the president did to prepare for it. that is what our reporting shows. >> okay. couple this with "the washington post" piece which is highlighted a task force meeting in the situation room last month in march when the president said why don't we let this wash over the country. that is from two people familiar with the comments and something he's raised repeatedly in the oval office. officials say he didn't fully

grasp the seriousness of the situation. is that still a concern. how are health officials around the president think that he sees it? >> well, there is still some tension between the public health and the economic officials pulling for the ear of the president if you will as he makes the decision about when to call for reopening the country. the epidemiologists, the scientists, doctors are saying, yes, things are working now and that is why you don't lift them too soon because if you do we'll be right back where you started. the government owns projection said if they lift the restrictions on april 30th as the president talked about doing, we could be back to the same position in july. we could have a second wave when people suddenly go back out in society. the president doesn't decide when the government reopens, it is made by individual governors and that would be followed by some governors and public health

officials are worried. he's worried about the economy which also has devastating impact on many americans. 17 million americans are outside of work right now and it is certainly understandable why the president is feeling the pressure to reopen as soon as possible. the question is when that possible is. when is it safe to reopen without triggering a second wave that would make things even worse. >> listen, that is a huge challenge for the administration, that is for sure. peter baker, thank you so much. in the next hour, the miami doctor who was handcuffed outside of his home, his crime unloading tents for the homeless. he's going to tell me his story. i just love hitting the open road and telling people that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks]

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now to front lines and doctors risking their own health to help others fight the coronavirus. joining me now one of the front line workers, dr. jennifer hunt. she's the chair of the department of pathology and laboratory services at the university of arkansas for medical science.

dr. hunt, welcome to you on this holiday sunday, let's look at your state of arkansas that has more than 1200 confirmed cases, 27 deaths. talk about your experience, what it is like and do you feel like your hospital and others around arkansas have enough ppe and medical equipment for what may head your way? >> well, thanks, alex, for inviting me today. i am going to say in arkansas we are in awfully good shape but it is not by chance. it's through really careful planning and careful stewardship of the supplies we have in the state. it is also been from great collaboration and state government leadership including our governor who have really come together and allowed hospitals to collaborate with each other in ways that we probably never have before. so i would say in arkansas and particularly in little rock at the university of arkansas for medical sciences, we are very secure in our ppe supplies but we're also very cognizant of the fact that these supplies are

always at risk. >> so what specifically has arkansas done that has put you in such good standing at this point? >> well, i think one thing we've done is plan ahead. and i know a lot of planning went into every day. every single day we look at the numbers, as a command center, how many of each individual items we have for each personal protective equipment device and we look at how many we have and how many days on hand we have in order to prepare for the next week. we're careful and we monitor these very carefully. >> are you at all concerned that your governor earlier today had to defend his decision not to issue a stay-at-home order? do you have any concerns about that, that people are going about their business as normal? >> you know, i run the tree -- the triage unit and we have screened 7,000 people in the last couple of weeks. and i ask that question all of

the time. i ask of every patient. what are you doing? are you staying home and i'm thrilled that the governor's very strong messages to the public, which are stay home, stay safe, wash your hands, social distancing, which he said over and over again to our public, i am really, really happy to say that most of the people through the drive-thru clinic are practicing all of these things right now. so i think in arkansas and in little rock we're doing well with all of our social distancing and measures that are in place. >> so it sounds like he's offering advice and people are heeding it even though it is not a stay-at-home order. dr. jennifer hunt, i hope things stay as good as they sound like they are now in arkansas. thank you so much and happy easter. outrage in miami. a doctor who was handcuffed outside of his home while unloading tents for the homeless. new word today on the relief checks. the government said some have already been direct deposited.

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country. this morning dr. fauci said we can expect a rolling re-entry back to normalcy. >> it is not going to be a light switch that we say, okay, it is now june, july or whatever, click, the light switch goes back on. it is going to be depending where you are in the country, the nature of the outbreak that you've already experienced and the threat of an outbreak that you may not have experienced. i think it is going to have to be something that is not one size fits all. >> a live report from the white house in a moment. but first boris johnson was released this morning from the hospital in london where he was being treated for coronavirus. the prime minister spent three nights in the icu and will continue recovery at his country home. and the irs sent out the first wave of relief checks and the agency tweeting yesterday it will keep issuing payments as fast as they can. people who filed tax returns for 2018 and 2019 and authorized direct deposit is among the first to see the money hit their

bank accounts. people who have not filed or receive social security will have to wait a few weeks to get their checks. so as promised to the white house now and nbc's monica alba. we hear from dr. fauci on what it will take to reopen the country. is there an official line from the white house on this. >> reporter: so the models have shifted in recent weeks, alex, and that is a big part of the white house messaging as we look to the coming weeks and the end of the april 30th social distancing guidelines which were extended from the original date. and the president was touting on friday that certain revised models have shown a lower death toll potentially than what was originally expected. you remember a week or so ago, dr. birx and fauci had dire warnings for the american people telling them as many as 100,000 to 200,000 americans could die saz a result of coronavirus. those models have been revised slightly to show it could be lower and that is, they say,

because of mitigation efforts. but when we talk about how those models could change so quickly, it is important to point out we're not sure what that will look like if suddenly restrictions are eased. listen to what steve hahn had to say about how the models impact their thinking this morning. >> the latest models, which are projecting that the u.s. peak in terms of daily deaths would likely be today. the president citing models that he said show easter as hitting the top of the curve and then starting to come down. have we peaked and does this mean the worst may have passed? >> the models do show that we are very close to the peak. and so i think that information is accurate. this is been a very fast-moving outbreak. so we really have to take this day by day. >> reporter: and the question there of the peak, there is also a large concern about a plateau, is what we're seeing in new york state. you have governor cuomo today

talking about even though the numbers maybe are starting to level off, it doesn't mean that those high numbers of casualties that are being lost within a 24-hour period don't continue and the question is how long do those things continue. so all of that is going to go into the president's thinking as he makes a very big decision in what he calls the most consequential, not just of his presidency, but in terms of his life and how it will impact the entire nation. and he's convening something new, a council to reopen the country and that is different from the coronavirus task force and here at white house it is a fairly quiet day. the president did take in easter services online and watching those and for the most part been quiet on twitter, alex. >> monica alba at the white house, thank you very much. and thank you for working on this easter sunday. let's go to josh letterman with new reporting on the next wave relief payments.

that is a relief to many. what could you tell us about that. >> the first ones went out on friday night according to the irs. we want to be clear with people. they're only going to get one coronavirus payment unless congress authorized a new round but not everyone will get the money at the same time. so you'll see them sent out in waves as the irs and the treasury are able to process more and more americans. and a senior treasury department official told me tens of millions of americans will see payments directed into their bank account by wednesday april 15th. on april 17th, this coming friday, the deadline the irs set to have a new website a portal similar to the ones that you use to check the status of your tax refund but you could use it to see when your payment is coming. and if you need to, you could update your direct deposit information with the irs.

later in april social security resip yenl yen recipients will see those and the paper checks will be mailing out starting in may. and if you wonder whether there is more money beyond that, this is something that congress and president trump are talking about, having potentially a second round of coronavirus payments. >> can't come sunshine enough. thank you very much. happy easter to you, my friend. today from andrew cuomo, more bad news after a high week of tough death rates. this is what the week looked like. look at those numbers there. in the high 700s, five days in a row. new york city really taking it on the chin, actually 706. but testing is ramping up in minority neighborhoods. >> we see disparity, clear disparity in the impact.

who has been hit hardest. communities of color. lower income and immigrant communities, folks who are vulnerable already because they didn't have the health care they needed and deserved throughout their life. we cannot accept this inequality. we have to attack it with every tool we have. >> msnbc cory coughlin is joining me from the javits field hospital. another welcome to you. so testing is a key pillar of new york staet -- new york strategy going forward, yeah? >> yeah and the testing we heard governor cuomo and mayor de blasio were talking about. i'll get to it in a moment here. but the governor believes that is the next step in helping the state reopen. along with us continuing all of the safety measures that we're already doing. he believes testing will help us track who is and who is not safe to leave their home. he made two announcements today for executive orders.

one on testing, one on face masks. >> directs employers to provide essential workers with a cloth or surgical face mask to their employees when they are interacting with the public. we have to also expand testing. one of the ways we want to do that is by executive order, we're going to expand the number of people who are eligible to do the antibody test. we have state regulations that say who can do the antibody test. >> you heard about antibody tests and that is important is because if somebody already had the virus, whether they knew it or not, there are ant-- antibod in the system and then you could look to go back to work. he's looking to do that to as many people in new york as possible which is a quick, rapid

rollout. he's looking for more federal funding and we heard mayor de blasio announce more of the traditional testing. five new testing sites will be open by next week, alex. >> thank you, cory, for that. joining me now, dr. natalie azar with a welcome to you on easter sunday. first on the new numbers out of new york. do you read that as new york flattening the curve? is there any risk that this curve could head back up and spike? >> well, you know what, alex, let's remember what flattening the curve means. i think your guest on in the last hour who reminded us all that flattening the curve doesn't necessarily mean that you're on the other side of the curve and that everything is starting to come down. the whole philosophy of flattening the curve is that you're still getting the same number of cases and theoretically deaths, but you're just not getting them all at the same time so you're not having the peak and the surge that

overwhelms the hospital system. so i think when we're talking about flattening, we're talking about eventually getting to the point where the number of hospitalizations and icu admissions are staying the same and then starting to come down and then the lag a couple of weeks after that of the deaths coming down. and dr. fauci said a number of times, he won't start to feel confident that we are really getting to the downward slope of this until the deaths start to come down significantly and are trending down. so they're still staying up. but again reflecting the cases from a few weeks ago so it is not entirely unexpected. >> and you referred to what dr. fauci which is this rolling re-entry to normalcy. do you think there are everyday activities, behaviors that when we start getting back to normal, we're not going to be able to do again? >> look, i mean, i think going to a crowded grocery store or

going to the nail salon, getting your hair cut, going to gatherings, festivals, things like that, i don't know that those are go to be the kinds of things that we will be able to do. and practically speaking, the important thing here is that we need to have have much guidance both from economic advisers as well as medical advisers to say, how do we do this, which sectors of the economy are focused initially. is it getting -- is it safety for folks in nursing homes, is it health care workers. what other industries and prioritize that. i don't have the answer to that. i think that is an overwhelming challenge but i hope we have the best minds working on that. and for me, i like to sort of conceptualize this re-entry as having two prongs. one is the medical and one is the public health. and by medical i mean we have to make sure that the hospitals are never again in a situation where

we don't know if we can handle all of the sick cases and that we need to go into this crisis mode. and do we have enough ppe and do we have enough staff. i think that especially in new york we were tested. and it looks like we did the right thing with -- i said dr. cuomo again, with governor cuomo saying we don't go into battle with what we want, we go into battle with what we have and he made sure that we have enough. and then from the public health point which is what the other correspondents and reporters have been talking about. is this idea that without the necessary and sufficient scaleable diagnostics we're never going to get to the point where we could comfortably and confidently say that group of people can go back in, this group of people can't go back in. so these things have to happen really simultaneously. >> and dr. fauci also mentioned the possibility of a second wave. take a look at what he said about that. >> it is a possibility as that

as we get into next fall and the beginning of early winter, then we could see a rebound. and hopefully, hopefully what we've gone through now and the capability that we have for many, much, much better surveillance capability and the ability to respond with counter measures, with drugs that work, that it will be an entirely different ball game. >> what are your thoughts on that, the prospect of a second wave. and even if the fall, we're not expected to have a vaccine by then. >> no. definitely not. yeah, and dr. fauci has been saying this for sometime. that even in the event this does become seasonal how will the next wave look in comparison to the first. he is correct to say that by then we all would hope that the diagnostics are that much better and that they are available to us. there is also the possibility, of course, there will be a degree of immunity within the population that we didn't have

the first time around as this coronavirus will no longer be totally novel. and also by then, no, we won't have a vaccine but we will hopefully in the next few months have results from clinical trials so that he we can make evidence-based decisions to guide our treatment. for example, using hydroxychloroquine versus remdesir. and not just social distancing, which is all we have this time around. >> natalie azar, good to see you. thank you so much. amid calls for return to normal life, the four goalposts one expert said we must meet before the country could get back to work.

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today's easter sunday services are strikingly different as many worships follow them via live stream. pope francis brought his mass to the vatican in a celebration, he struck an optimistic tone in his speech telling of a different type of contagion spreading

through the world, a contagion of hope. in jerusalem, where christians believe jesus was crucified, the city's archbishop said easter is a time for life. and in washington, d.c. the archbishop finishing at saint matthew the apostle as another tradition is celebrated. this is the fourth full day of passover. they met at the western wall this morning in jerusalem from prayer. to texas for a drive-thru church service taking place in the place of a traditional easter ceremony to maintain social distancing guidelines so let's go to press illa thompson in spring, texas, for this. talk about what you are seeing and how the worshipers are reacting to this kind of change on an easter sunday. >> reporter: well changes there were, alex. for one, folks weren't citying

in the pews, they were sitting on top of cars. there are still folks sitting out here. and another thing is that folks got these whenever they pulled up and it teaches them how to drive and worship so they could honk their horn to say amen or throw up some windshield wiper fluid if they're interested in getting baptized. folks did stay in cars and sit on their hoods or in their truck beds. but what we saw is that after service ended a number of folks wanted to get out of the car and congregate and that social media sort of fell by the wayside which is one of the concerns that state and local officials whenever they implemented this order and asked to instead switch to live stream. but the paster here is a number of pastors in the area that defied that order initially and since filed a lawsuit saying that it infringes on first amendment rights. i spoke to him today and he emphasized the important role that religious leaders are going to play right now amid this

pandemic. listen to what he had to say. >> we believe the church is like a hospital in the spirit. where people are hurting, they're discouraged, they're down, they've lost their job and they need hope. >> reporter: and i spoke to a number of folks in their cars today, some of them front line health care workers and others unemployed and they said the service meant a lot to them and spread a message of hope as they went about their week. >> can i ask you one question. you talked about baptisms. did you witness one? how did that work? >> reporter: i did not witness one. but the church wanted to give folks the option so they put it on the car to say if they wanted to have that done, they could flash this wiper fluid and perhaps this is something that will happen down the line when things get back to normal. >> i love it. okay. so the windshield pipers and the piper fluid. now it makes sense. thank you for that. let's go now to new insight from former fda commissioner

scott gottlieb. >> i don't think anyone has optimized. we're not going to have the testing in place or the employees for the contract tracing. we're opening at some risk. i think that is inevitable. >> as the report released this week laying out four benchmarks the u.s. needs to reach before we wrurn to normalcy. joining me professor crystal watson, and dr. irwin reynolds from columbia university. welcome to you both. thank you for joining me on this easter. professor crystal to you first, you and colleagues lay out four things that need to hospital. the first is that hospitals in the state must be able to safely treat all patients requiring hospitalization. point two, there must be sustained reduction for 14 days. three, each state needs to test

everyone who has symptoms. point four, each state could conduct monitoring of cases. talk about the process that got you to these conclusions. >> yeah, so we were seeing that leaders in our country were considering reopening. we wanted to establish some thresholds in which it could be done more safely. and this is a gradual process. it is going to be done location by location because we're in different states of our epidemic in different parts of the country. so we thought this was an important point to make, that we need to establish these capabilities before we're able to open up. >> okay. and how long do you think that might take to reach these four goalposts? >> well, i think we're working hard at expanding the testing across the country. so i could see if the next month or two that we have better testing that will enable us to

do this. one of the things we need to do right now is implement a robust and comprehensive system to identify all covid-19 cases and trace all of the close contacts of each identified case. and so that is going to take a little bit of time. our public health work force isn't optimized for this so we need to hire a lot of people to do this. we think about 100,000 people will be needed. so that will take a little bit of time. but if we get started on it now, then i think we can do it before the summer. >> so before the summer. and just want to point out, may 1st with the president saying he would like -- his aspirational date to reopen the country and you're saying this will take at least a month or two, 100,000 hires. dr. redmond to you, the goals, are they feasible. monitoring people for 14 days, a lot of man power that is needed as crystal is suggesting. >> yeah, it is a tremendous amount of man power, especially

in an era where we've really undercut the funding for our public health system in general. so it's not exactly easy to conceive of how they're going to fill in 100,000 people, where they're going to come from. one of the -- office that we may need to -- to outside like contract tracing and so on and apple and google and so on are working together to try to figure out if there could be innovative way of doing that. but i totally agree with the four pillars but there is one more that i wanted to add and that has to do with the new rules for the workplace. we're not going to be able to go back in the way that we had been functioning before the outbreak. and specifically we need to enforce things like social distancing in the workplace, we need to make sure that people know that if they have any kind of symptoms, a cold, flu-like symptoms they should not come to work and if they do they need to go home immediately.

so there is a lot that is going to happen. and i'm very concerned because one of the things is that we may see mutations in the virus that will make it more difficult to control and it may make people who once were immune to the original virus be susceptible to a second round of contracting this illness. so there is a lot science that has to be -- continued to be explored. we need to know more about the behavior of the virus and have new rules in place that -- that will allow us to gradually get back to work. but it is going to take a long time. i'd be very surprised if it happens before september, frankly. >> september. wow! so when you heard dr. fauci this morning, talking about a rolling return to normalcy, what does that look like to you? >> well, it looks like a long time. first of all, crystal mentioned the four -- >> goalposted -- >> and i'm saying they need to be more than that.

how do you determine which industries come back into play. do restaurants open? do theaters open and sporting events? is it just essential type of employees. you could say rolling re-entry back to the economy. no one really knows exactly what that means or nor do we know what are the criteria to decide which businesses will come back first. we need them all back. but it is going to be slow. it is going to be painful. and i think the public needs to be ready to sustain the social separation, maybe shelter in place for really quite sometime. and at the end of it, when it is all done, which won't be really until we have effective vaccines available, we're going to have a new america, a new world that will look and feel different. but there may be some very positive things that come of this as well.

and two things i'm thinking about are -- pardon me. sorry. >> no, i didn't say anything. sir but unfortunately we're out of time. though i will say i appreciate the insights that both you and professor crystal watson have offered to us. thank you so much. we'll stay with both of you and have you both back to talk about where we advance on these goalposts, these four different points here. my executive producer, can we throw back up that picture of times square. something that we've seen was a little more street traffic there. and of course now that we pull this up we don't see it there. too much. but still, nobody walking on the sidewalks. so the point of dr. redlander, it is quite a long time before things get back to normal. there we see a little bit of traffic coming down the street. something we haven't seen for quite sometime. maybe people are getting out and about to enjoy the easter holiday. new information on an antibody testing study underway right now in california. s again soon,

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this breaking news in the coronavirus pandemic. total confirmed cases is now almost 530,000 here in the united states. more than 21,000 people have died. despite those numbers, arkansas is one of five states with no statewide stay-home order. some playgrounds and outdoor spaces with closed but the governor said that his guidelines for social distancing are working. >> we want to take the long-term approach to this. and you're not going to win simply by a lockdown because there is no such thing as a true lockdown where everybody stays at home and does not go out. the most important message is that you wear your mask, you do your social distancing and the people of arkansas have embraced that and, again, it is given us success. >> more than 40,000 disney employees will be furloughed next week since the park closed last month.

the workers will still have access to health and education benefits and they could apply for unemployment. and in california 74 miles of oakland streets are closed to make room for people who want to practice social distancing. the city's slow streets program applied to 10% of the oakland roads to give people a place to walk, run or bicycle and local vehicle traffic like someone in the neighborhood or making a delivery is still okay. let's go now to the search for solutions and happening right now an antibody testing study is underway at multiple locations in california to determine how wide spread the coronavirus is there. officials say this could help determine when the area could safely reopen. joining me now from los angeles, nbc's gadi schwartz. good day to you on this easter sunday. how exactly is this going to work? >> it is not just about when we could reopen, but how long covid-19 is actually been here in california and how many people might already be basically immune.

that is because these tests aren't necessarily focusing on people who symptoms of covid-19 or think they might have been infected. a lot of studies are going to focus on the general population as a whole to try to learn much more about those asymptomatic carriers, people who might have spread it but never shown symptoms. so far here in l.a. county they've tested 900 people with blood tests that are looking for the antibodies inside your immune system and whether or not they've seen covid-19 or come into contact with covid-19 in the past and learned how to fight it which would basically make you immune. up north in santa clara, another 3,000 people have undergone similar tests and these tests will hopefully give us answers as to how deadly covid-19 actually is. dr. millash sud is out of usc.

>> we're just testing the sick. so we don't know the true extent of the population that might have covid. there may be many people in the population that have covid and it was asymptomatic and they survived it. so having those people in the calculation will help us truly figure out how deadly this epidemic is. >> reporter: how many people have it, such a big question mark, still. up until now, california, we've seen our curve flatten considerably, our hospitals aren't being overwhelmed and the death toll is drastically lower than new york. it is projected to stay that way. but the reality is california still does not know how many people are infected because not enough people have been tested. right now we've got about 21,000 confirmed tests. but out of a state of 40 million, only about 200,000 have been tested. one other very interesting point is we see the curve start to

flatten and wonder about how much longer we're going to be under stay-at-home orders which have none but extended through may 15th. los angeles countries just released some modeling saying that if they were to relax all of the orders and to go back to normal today, they estimate that 95% of the population here in l.a. county would be infected by august 1st. alex. >> wow, that is sobering. so the need for testing persists. thank you so much gadi schwartz. now to miami and a doctor there handcuffed after helping the homeless during the coronavirus outbreak. so this home surveillance video shows a miami police sergeant handcuffed dr. henderson outside of his home on wednesday but the doctor said he did nothing wrong. the miami police chief said they have launched an investigation. dr. henderson is joining me now. welcome on this easter sunday. tell me what happened. >> yeah, so, i mean, i was

basically putting tents in my van that i was going to hand out to the homeless in downtown miami and i saw the police officer go down the street, one way. he must have made a u-turn and came back. and then he basically asked me what i was doing. if i was littering, et cetera. and i told him no, i live here. and this is basically where we put our trash and this is where the miami-dade county picks up our bulky trash every week. and at some point he got upset with what i was saying and he handcuffed me. and then he was in my face, pointing fingers. with no mask on. and basically my wife had to come out and show her i.d. to prove that we actually lived there. >> wow! . all right. miami police chief has responded yesterday to all of this. here is what he said. >> we're aware of the video. this will be investigated fully

and this is the context of the stop because many questions have been asked. the city of miami police department does not condone or accept profiling of any kind. >> okay, we want to reiterate what the miami police chief said about this, that things that cause your retainment was a litany of complaints pertaining to illegal dumping in the area and that is what they were investigating. what is your response to that. >> i've lived in this neighborhood for over a year and my van has been parked there for a similar amount of time. all of my neighbors know me personally by name, first name. and i don't -- i didn't really hear that. so, i can't really speak to the validity of what he is saying. but i live in this neighborhood and i haven't seen much around littering of trash. what i can tell you is that i do live in a predominantly cuban neighborhood and, you know, it

just -- it is just ironic that he would pull down the treat one way, very slowly, and then pull back around to approach me about something like this. especially during a time where we're in a pandemic, we're supposed to practice social distancing. he's supposed to have a mask on. and it was just really humiliated. >> and humiliated and potentially dangerous. i'm disturbed watching but you're right, the officer has no mask or gloves and he's handling you and no social distance going on right there and that is alone something disturbing and needs to be addressed. could i ask you what you want to see come from this. >> you could see how the situations could escalate. i'm pretty much trained in the fact that i know how to keep my cool in situations like this. but situations like these have

escalated into black men being shot all across the country. so the last thing you want is another black person shot. especially during a time when it is supposed to be staying away from each other. i just -- i would really just want us to focus on what is going on in this pandemic. i would want to limit the amount of people who are arrested during this pandemic. >> yeah. >> for miami-dade county it seems as though it is business as usual at this time. where it was me this time but actually arresting homeless people for putting up tents and stuff like that. >> and i want to make the point that you were giving free coronavirus testing to a lot of those individuals, those people that were homeless as you were trying to deliver their tents as well. so dr. henderson, please let us know what happens with this. we're going to follow this story and see what comes of it. best of luck. happy easter. >> thank you. searching for guidance in a time of crisis, where do people turn and what has history taught

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the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in new jersey is rising. and governor phil murphy now said the state could be approaching its apex. and he wanted the state to stay ahead of it. >> broadly speaking, jake, and there is more nuance to the answer depending on the specifics, the answer is no. in other words we have enough testing material and personal protective equipment and our heroic health care workers are

stretched incredibly thin so we are testing only for symptomatic patients. that is a decision we made from day one. i think we have the fifth most tests taken of any american state. we have the 11th largest population. so we're punching above our weight but we do not have universal testing and we would love to have that. we're fighting to stay ahead on bed capacity and ventilators that are constantly running thin and the medicine for the ventilators and the personal protective equipment and the relieve from the bull pen for the health care workers so we're every day doing everything we can to stay ahead of it. >> and lindsay riser is joining me from newark, new jersey. with a welcome. i know you just interviewed the mayor of newark. what all did he tell you. >> reporter: alex, he said normally on easter sunday the streets would be bustling with people in the sunday best going to and from church but as you could see here sidewalks and streets mostly empty today.

newark is still seeing an increase in cases. they're seeing 100 to 200 more cases every day. right now they're reporting 2,500 cases and 131 deaths. now the state of new jersey is the second hardest hit state. they're reporting 58,000 cases. and because of that that the governor issued two more executive orders yesterday. so the first is if you're going into a grocery store, if you're going into another essential place, you need to be wearing some kind of a face mask or a face covering. it doesn't have to be a surgical grade mask but it needs to be covering your face, whether you go into -- go in to buy an order. and he's limiting capacity of public transit to 50% capacity. i asked the mayor how that will impact his community particularly all of those essential workers who are just trying to get to their jobs. >> it is helpful to force these places not to allow so many people on a bus and train at the same time. allow them to be safe and to

distance socially from one another. which is another reason why we need a -- so some people could stay home. >> does that mean a bus pulls up and there is 50 people waiting, 25 people get let on and the other 25 have to wait for the next bus. >> yes. that is what should happen. that is exactly what should happen. and that's what is going to save our lives. >> reporter: and the mayor is also taking things a step further by recommending people do be still monday. so even some businesses that are considered essential, he wants people to stay home. that means if you're not a nurse, a cop or a firefighter, you shouldn't be leaving the house on mondays. so his suggestion is tomorrow don't get takeout, just eat easter left-overs, alex. >> well there is good advice. thank you, lindsay riser from newark. up next, what history has taught us about presidential leadership during a pandemic. (burke) at farmers insurance, we've seen almost everything

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i think faith means different things to different people. people with a strong foundation and faith, i think is very, very important. when you go through serious, really terrible ordeals. the country is going through. i think this helps people through this. >> anthony fauci discussing the role of faith as many americans are celebrating the holy day of easter. joining me now, msnbc contributor john meachum. he is a distinguished professor and author of "the hope of glory: reflection onz the last words from jesus christ from the cross". and really good to have you here, john, especially on this easter sunday. look, we're in a unique time. not just for american history but this entire world on this easter sunday. comes in the midst of a plague of sorts. so put in per inspect think spe moment in time. >> we're facing a common enemy

which almost never happens. nation states, tribes are divided by interests usually. and, yet, here's something that affects everyone equally. and our reactions, our government's reactions are in many ways manifestations of what we as different peoples are willing to put up with and what we -- the situations we create. and so character is destiny. the greeks taught us that. the word destiny in greek can also be translated as fate. so character is fate. so both the character of the leader but also the character of all of us is on trial. >> you know, i'm curious the inclination for americans, john, when a crisis hits and they need to turn it o to something. is it only faith or other resources used en masse? >> i think there is religious faith. i think there is neighborliness. i think that we almost all respond in extremists by

reaching out to the people closest to us. not all of us but virtually all of us. and so it is a reminder of the permanent things of the things that transcend the advihistory. we do tend to look to the presidency. fdr said that the role of the president is not really an engineering job or an efficient job. it's being a moral leader. moral in the sense of a spiritual sense of who we are as a country, what we can do in order to create that greatest good for the greatest number. this goes straight back to pretty basic enlightenment political philosophy. you know this is about there is a state of nature out there and we give up certain rights to be in a social contract. you and i do with each other. and that's where both a pragmatic reaction comes in but also a religious one, an ethical

one. the golden rule is do unto others as you would have them do unto you. it's not, interestingly, do unto others because it's the right thick to do. it's more of a covenant. and so we need to on this day of great words, in terms easter, we have to pay attention to our deeds as well. >> you know, i'm thinking about the soaring rhetoric from our leaders. the here we are on three quarters of a century later still quoting fdr. what happens when you don't get that from the governmental leaders? >> it puts us -- it's a very interesting question. we've been living with that for three years or more. when you have a president who is self-evidently more narcissistic and more interested in himself than of the nation, we outsourced our social leadership. it's now dependent on all of us in the same way a lot of

christians were doing when our jewish brothers and sisters have done forever, we worshipped in our houses the past week or. so it's really on all of us. there's very little external spiritual support coming from the secular places where we're accustom to having that. and i think one of the most fascinating things about the election coming up in november is going to be what do you want? do you want to continue to have this unconventional person or do you want to have someone who can restore a certain conversation and a certain civility? >> yeah. john meachum, i could listen to you for another hour. this is the end of my hour. >> thank god you don't have to. >> not at all. i think it would be beneficial to everyone. but the book is "the hope of glory: reflections on the last words from jesus christ from the cross". a perfect title for this easter sunday. thank you so much, my friend. have a good one. as i've said, everyone, that's a wrap for me. i'm alex witt. happy easter to all of you

celebrating. up next, with how the lockdown is hurting millions of undocumented immigrants. and reverend sharpton talks to anthony fauci, a very familiar name and face to everyone. it was on "politics eastern" at 5:00 eastern. awesome internet.

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