good morning, everybody. a lot to cover this morning with the united states death toll from the coronavirus now topping 34,000 and unemployment hitting a staggering 22 million claims. the president has unveiled new guidelines for getting the united states back to work. just days after saying he had, quote, total authority to decide when states begin loosening social distancing restrictions, the president yesterday announced new federal guidance for reopening parts of the economy that largely put the responsibility on the country's governors. under the first phase of the plan, large venues like

restaurants, movie theaters, places of worship and sporting venues would be able to reopen under certain conditions, schools, day care centers and bars will subsequently remain closed. the guidelines say they are designed to mitigate the risk of resurgence and protect the most vulnerable. and hours before the plan was actually released, if president spoke with governors from across the country telling them they would be able to make their own decisions about timing saying, quote, you're going to call your own shots. both dr. birx and dr. fauci stressed this does not have a timeline attached to them. >> we did not put a timeline on any of the phases. we want the governors with the data that they have, community by community, to be setting up those timelines. >> light switch on and off is the exact opposite of what you see here which is a gradual degradation with the first thing and the only thing in mind as

the health people here, my colleagues who are either physicians, scientists or public health issues, to he prosecute dominant and completely driving element that we put into this was the safety and the health of the american public. >> so democrats were quick to react to the president's guidelines. the house speaker, nancy pelosi, put on a statement saying in part this, testing is the key to opening our country, to resume our lives. the white house's vague and inconsistent document does nothing to make up for the president's failure to listen to the scientists and produce distribute national rapid testing. and here is what apparent democratic nominee for president joe biden had to say. >> well, i wouldn't call it a plan. i think what he's done, he's kind of punted. he's decided that he doesn't have the right to make the call for the country and he talks about phases that, in a generic sense, seem to me from all i've learned and all i've listened

and my morning brief from the docs i talk to is not irrational, but it doesn't give you any hard guidelines. and once again, the president is blaming china and others for the response to the coronavirus saying it should have been told to us earlier. >> i want to heal this country. we have an invisible as opposed to a visible enemy. i think in many ways the invisible enemy is much more dangerous, is much tougher. in the g7 today, i went through country after country. we were there. we all get along great. their countries have been devastated by this. their economies have been devastated by this. 184 countries all over the world. and we went through one after another. and i was angry because it should have been told to us. it should have been told to us earlier. it should have been told to us a

lot sooner. people knew it was happening and people didn't want to talk about it. i don't know in, but we're going to get to the bottom of it. >> joining me now, world editor at axios. listen, we know china suppressed information about the coronavirus at this point. we know that happened for quite some time. we also know from numerous reports that the president was warned repeatedly about a possible pandemic leading up to march and the president repeatedly down played that. with all of that said and hearing the president speaking yesterday at the coronavirus task force briefing, is there any indication that this president plans to do anything about what he thinks was kept from him when it comes to china?

but what about china? >> we shouldn't forget this is an election year. trump is tough on china and he plan toes paint joe biden as being softer on china. obviously, there's some attempt to push responsibility toward china to say that if we had heard earlier, we would have acted earlier. but in terms of next steps, what he can do to put china, as he said he wants to, obviously, we're seeing the world health organization action and it's just a case of perhaps when we get through this, the worst of this, are we going to see the same hawkish behavior towards china we saw, you know, that had sort of cooled down heading into the pandemic, but are we going to be back to sort of butting heads with china.

but, again, it's important to note the president was repeatedly warned about a possible outbreak of the coronavirus and repeatedly are ignored. those warnings going so far publicly in some of his rallies as calling it something like the flu and down playing what was in the pipeline for us, really. >> talk us through reopening the economy by may 1st. >> right. it was a complete 180. he went from saying i will call the shots to you will call the shots basically over the course of 24 hours. so it's -- you know, it's back kind of where we might have expected it to be. where states are in very different places right now and they have their own timelines and their own approaches for when they're going to be able to start loosening these restrictions. so trump and the health experts

are saying basically they've given very broad guidelines for how they might consider doing that, but obviously, the ultimate decisions still lie with these governors who have been leading the charge basically the whole way. >> dave lawler, thank you. stay close, my friend. so let's talk about the economy here. the number of americans out of a job due to the coronavirus continuing to skyrocket as unemployment claims over the last four weeks grew to 22 million people. the department of labor announced that last week another 5.2 million jobless claims were added, bringing the percentage of americans seeking unemployment to around 13%. prior to this four-week stint of record unemployment claims, the largest number of americans filing jobless claims in a fwour four-week stretch was 2.7 million back in 1982. last week's 5.2 million was down from the previous two weeks, a sign that unemployment claims

may be starting to settle back down. although, again, a total of 22 million. the coronavirus emergency funding plan, the paycheck protection program, has officially one out of its $349 billion worth of cash as small business continues to suffer. the small business association website stated yesterday that it is, quote, unable to accept new applications for the paycheck protection program based on available appropriations funding. similarly, we are unable to enroll new ppe lenders at this time. congress is trying to add an additional $250 billion to the programs, but democrats and republicans have been stuck in negotiations, unsurprisingly. democrats are looking to include loan access for food assistance and state and local governments and republicans are hoping to secure more small business aid while securing other funding debates until later. joe biden announcing that he's begin to go assemble a

transition team. as he turns his focus to the general election after becoming the democrat party's apparent nominee. he has begun to join a team because he believes the numerous vacancies that exist throughout the trump administration currently. biden did not rule out naming some cabinet members before the election. senator kamala harris weighing in on joe biden's potential presidential picks saying she would be honored to serve. >> senator harris, if he asks, would you say yes? >> i mean, obviously, i'd be honored to serve with joe. >> and harris added that her focus has not been on the potential of deep stakes, but

100% on addressing the coronavirus pandemic. biden, who has pledged to pick a woman as a running mate discussed the possibility of picking harris back in february. >> i asked barack why he wanted to vet me. he said because we're -- there's not a single important issue we disagreed on. >> would kamala harris fit that bill? >> i think so. but, again, i've not spoke ton kamala harris about that and it's presumptuous of me to do that. >> of course, we will have to wait and see. still ahead, everybody, michigan residents are suing governor wittmer over stay at home orders there. we're going to talk about how the first amendment comes into play with danny cevallos. plus, a group of governors from several midwestern states, they're working together on a plan to reopen the economy. those stories and a check on your weather when we come back. your weather when we come back

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they seem to be protesters like me and respect this opinion and my opinion is just about the same as just about all of the governors. they all want to open. nobody wants to stay shut, but they want to open safely. so do i. >> they do all want to open, but they want to open safely, it seems. welcome back. that was the president weighing in on the protests against stay at home orders. meanwhile, michigan governor gretchen wittmer is being sued over a second executive order to stay at home amid the outbreaks and complaints filed earlier this week. several residents and one business of the april 9 stay home stay safe order is more restrictive than the march order and violates their constitutional right to associate with other people under the first amendment. they also claim it violates due process. now, the order, which was

protested wednesday at the state capital restrictions the movements of workers who are not necessary to sustain or protect life, allowing them to leave home for groceries, exercise and medical visits only. visits between homes and second homes are prohibited. the directive, in effect through april, is described as a government taking without compensation. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. as always, it is great to see you. good morning to you. happy you're doing well. let's talk about the first amendment here. does the first amendment freely have the right to freely associate with others holed up under a health crisis? >> the freedom of association in the first amendment is not absolute and not all rights under the association are equal. the supreme court has held for a long time that the freedom to associate with your spouse or your children, that's entitled

to the highest protection. but the freedom to get together and associate for reasons of religious observance or to -- for political reasons, that's entitled to quite a bit of protection. and the freedom to associate for a party or to socially get together is entitled to very little protection. so there are different kinds of freedoms of association. and ever since 1905, the supreme court has held that the government has the power to quarantine. and that includes possibility in certain circumstances that freedom of association. that quarantine attacks the freedom of association. so in all likelihood, if the government can show a compelling enough reason or even a really good reason, then the plaintiffs, at least on their first amendment of freedom of association claims may lose.

>> is there another claim they can make? the governor will make the argument that not only does she have the right and the obligation to protect the people that are in her state. >> they are making another claim under what's called the takings clause. the government can take your property and it does take people's property all the time. for example, to put a highway through it, which is for the public use. but ever since about a decade ago, the supreme court has held that it can take your property and put up a private apartment building, as long as the taxes will enure to the public benefit. what it must do when it does take your property is give you just compensation. now, parties litigate for years with the government over what that compensation is. and the courts have held that they don't necessarily have to put a highway through your backyard. if they regulate your appropriate down to

worthlessness, that essentially constitutes a taking, as well. on the other hand, every government regulation or law arguably affects the use of our property. so not every single effect on the property is going to be a taking. and it's in that middle ground that this battle is going to be over whether or not this is first a taking and, if it is, whether the plaintiffs are entitled to whatever just compensation is for the taking of their property or their businesses. still ahead, president trump is facing online backlash after inaccurately claiming nancy called for parties in san francisco's chinatown amid the coronavirus outbreak. we're back with a fact check, coming up next. e back with a fa comingp unext you want immune support you can trust.

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president, but we are struggling with testing at a large scale. you really can't go back to work until we have more tests. >> i do think that you can blame the president because the trump administration lost about 70 days in the coronavirus battle. by down playing the threats, stalling funds, not getting appropriate testing, no ppe, denying even that americans were at risk. and trump said, and i quote, i take no responsibility at all. i don't know that that is real leadership. do you agree with that, that he bears no responsibility as the president of the united states? >> i think he's done a good job. i blame china. >> the key to flattening the curve is testing, testing, test, and refuse to go blame the president for the well documented slow response that we know now. president trump attacking house

speaker nancy pelosi blaming her for, quote, many deaths after she encouraged people not to avoid san francisco's lockdown. in a tweet, the president said the speaker posted video of herself in february telling residents it was safe to go to china down. trumpt accused pelosi of deleting the footage from her exiter account and that's received some backlash, as well. some called it racist. the speaker's office disputed this saying she had never post today video and also never deleted it. with that, let's bring in bill

karins who is standing by for us. bill, you are always bringing us the weather and tracking that curve for us as it is beginning to flatten as we're seeing here in the northeast. >> and i have something new for you, too. i want to talk about testing and the numbers. yesterday, we finally hit 1% of the u.s. population that has been test dollars fed for covid. almost 3.5 million people, 1%. the most states by population, new york has actually tested 2.7%, l.a. is next, rhode island, washington and massachusetts round out the top five. what states have had the least amount of testing? kansas, virginia and texas have only tested about .5% of their states' residents and california and ohio are right behind them.

so we've had very little testing if you look at it as a whole. so yesterday, about 1 out of every 20 case sess going to end up in a fatality. so when you have a day like yesterday where you have 30,000 people, that's another 1,500 lives that will be lost. let me update everybody on the snow. this is enough to shovel. this is going across areas of pennsylvania, southern new england, how rude is this for the third week of april. this is what you'll wake up to tomorrow in the cat skills and the berkshires. the rest of the weekend, no problem. however, we have another tornado outbreak coming on sunday. >> the more people tested, the

better. then uj who is asymptomatic and who is stick, who needs to stay at home and who can actually return to work. bill karins, thanks as always. still. still ahead, the white house is out for new guidelines for reopening the u.s. economy. but one thing that isn't mentioned, the national strategy for testing. we're going to talk about that with an infectious disease expert. also, andrew cuomo extending coronavirus restrictions. the very latest coming up next. coronavirus restrictions the very latest coming up next t? harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. crest gum detoxify, voted product of the year. it works below the gum line to neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. gum detoxify, from crest. 450-degree oven, to box, to you, know that from our it's our policy that your pizza is never touched once it comes out of the oven. and we're taking extra steps, like no contact delivery, to ensure it.

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welcome back, everybody. we're going to begin this half hour with the new white house guidelines for getting the country back to business while governors stressed testing data as a major factor in determining when to reopen. the president's plan does not include a national testing strategy. instead, citing logistics and not a lack of testing capacity. he said it would be left up to the states with federal government conducting oversight. watch this. >> we're going to be watching over. we're going to see that everything is working out smoothly. we're in very good communication with the governors. we're going to be helping with testing. they're going to be doing the testing. it has to be a localized thing. and it really has been since i've been involved because i came in and the federal government is supposed to do testing of parking lots in the middle of a certain state that's 2,000 miles away? it's ridiculous. >> are you opening things up without doing widespread testing? is that because you don't have

the capacity or you don't think it's necessary? >> do have the capacity, but you have states without any problem. you have states with few cases and those few cases have healed. you have states with very little death, relatively speaking. as i said, one is too many, but you have states with very little and, frankly, they're at a point where they have almost nothing. so this is a much different case than a new york or a new jersey. >> and new york governor andrew cuomo has extended his stay at home order until may 15th. cuomo said new york continues to make progress in containing the virus, but said the rate of infection would have to slow much more before lifting restrictions which is scheduled to stay in effect until april 9th. he expanded his order requiring new yorkers to wear face coverings when they're out in public and cannot maintain a social distancing. in addition to being required on mass transit, the coverings are to be worn in for hire vehicles

and they must be worn by children 2 years of age and older. this goes into effect at 8:00 p.m. tonight. new york city has announced it has canceled all public events for may and all public pools will be closed, as well. michigan, ohio, indiana and kentucky have announced they're going to work closely together to reopen their state economies after similar packets were maden the east and west coast, as well. the governors are going to focus on four factors, sustained control of new infection and hospitalization rates, enhanced testing, and tracing capabilities, adequate health care capacity to respond on a resurgence and best workplace social distancing techniques. alliance of the seven states joined one on the west coast and one here in the northeast. altogether, they're home to

nearly half of the u.s. population. let's get into this a bit. joining me once again, dave lawler for us. good morning to you again. great to see you. talk about this kind of phased in reopening the president is talking about and the impact it could have by leaving the decisions of reopening up to the states. >> if i show symptoms, you have to be able to trace everybody i've been in contact with, get them isolated and see if they have it, too, to contain that spread. mass palace, for example, has hired a workforce of people to do that kind of tracing work. other states don't have that infrastructure in place. obviously, it's not just that some states have worse outbreaks than others.

it's also that the capacity to respond to new outbreaks varies by states. you're going to see some states that have very few cases at this point start to allow some sort of gatherings to happen in the next few weeks whereas places like new york are pushing this off into may and beyond. i think we're all going to be watching from other states. when they open back up, do they see cases rise? what does it data look like? if this is coming next, how is it goggles where? >> there's been a particular focus on the president's leadership through this whole thing, through this global pandemic. how does it compare to other leaders around the world when you think of angela merkel in germany and emmanuel macron in phrase, boris johnson in the uk, president xi jinping in china?

>> if germany's infection rate is 1.0, here are the oaks if it's 1.1, if it's 1.3. she is getting down quite granular, quite serious, as is characteristic of her. and the flip side of that equation is somebody like the president in brazil who is down playing this and has fired his health minister who was taking this much more seriously and taking a leadership and more scientific role. so it's varied widely. trump is certainly not the most dismissive of this. we have a handful of leaders who are still denying that this is a major threat at all. but like you said, there are some leaders in europe who obviously have been more consistent in their leadership. still ahead, we have a lot more checking in with a leading health expert for reopening the country. your first look at "morning joe" is back in a moment. look at "m" is back in a moment. isn't just a department.

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welcome back, everybody. during yesterday's white house briefing, the president appears to contradict the guidance from medical experts on how to handle venues like restaurants and sports arenas. watch this. >> pressure on phase three on being the new normal, are we, during that phase, going to be able to see things like packed arenas for sporting events, large crowds, concerts? >> the answer is it is conceivable that we will be able to do that. i think there will always have to be attention to making sure that we don't do all that packing in together. i think we'll be able to have sports events in that phase where you actually have participants there. i'm not sure you're going to be able to do that uniformly and evenly temporariorly with everyone. >> part of the guidance shift to companies and states, the burden

not just of additional testing and surveillance, but also the sort of new normal in which, you know, there's smaller crowds and restaurants and bars and -- >> well, that's not going to be normal. there's not going to be a new normal where somebody has been having for 25 years 158 seats in a restaurant and now he's got 30. or he's got 60. because that wouldn't work. that's not normal. no. normal will be if he has the 158 or 160 seats. that's going to happen and it's going to happen relatively quickly, we hope. but that's our normal. >> joining me now, infectious disease doctor and a senior consoler of health security dr. adalja. always appreciate seeing you and talking to you about this stuff. let's talk about the possible reopening of the country here. you're hearing some of the president's guidelines here, some of which involve the first phase which is basically opening

sporting events, sporting arenas. i want to get you to weigh in some of the guidelines the president weighed out. if you feel like that's a smart move, a good direction to go in. >> i do think that there are some aspects of the guidelines that have really great measures in them. i do think if a state -- there are going to be some states that meet some of that criteria pretty early and it may be relatively safe to start going into phase one. and i think the graded response between phase one, phase two and phase three makes a lot of sense. but it's not going to be that we have packed sports arenas in the very beginning because that's going to be unsafe under most conditions until there's a vaccine. but there are going to be things that you can open up, things you can do safely and i think that's the right move to make. it's just we have to make sure that it's being done safely, and

correctly and people are actually following what the guidance says about what criteria need to be in place. >> can you talk about the timing of all this. we've heard dr. fauci mention a lot of times how this is going to come in waves. we could see another wave of this in the fall and it will continue until we have a vaccine, which is likely not until, it seems, next summer. so 18 months away from now. how do you see this all playing out? do we not really have the ability to return to normal until we have that vaccine? >> if normal means super bowl parties and parades, yes. but you may see schools open in

phase two, for example, you may see restaurants starting to open with altered hours, maybe they don't have a bar, maybe they've spaced the tables apart, you see more jobs coming back to life, less restrictions of people who are at lower risk in terms of social distancing. i do think that is going to happen in the shorter term, maybe even shorter in some states than other states. but if you're thinking about what will it be like, will it go back to what it was like in november, i think that's going to require a vaccine. but the question is, we have to have some balance between the virus and the economic shutdowns and the real cost of those economic shutdowns. and it's a very hard thing to walk. there's no black or white solution here. it's all going to be gray and it's going to be different regionally depending on in each state what's going on. but these states have to be able to test and do contact trace to go deal with the things occurring. but you want to make sure those paces are occurring at a slow enough clip that they don't

exceed hospital capacity. let's get a check off your weather again with meteorologist bill karins. and bill, it all comes down to testing, testing, testing as states roll back the guidelines. >> you talk to any high risk teacher that has to go in a classroom with kids and how do -- they don't know who has it. it's a horrible dilemma. and hopefully technology will figure it out. this has been a frustrating weak. it's been disheartening to follow these numbers. so we hit the plateau for cases, it appears, last week. and then we took that dip, coming out of the holiday weekend. it was like, finally, we're coming down this curve. and the last three days in a row, we've gone back up.

not as high as the plateau, but it's not falling as quickly as any of us would like. so 30,000 new case wes a fatality rate of about 5% of those, that's another 1,500 lives that will be lost. so this is going to test all of our patience. let's get to the weather concerns. today, not many. annoying snow in the ohio valley. it will be gone by saturday afternoon and by sunday, the snow will be completely melted. the thing that everyone needs to know about in the southeast is what happens on sunday. and unfortunately, this is the same areas that just had the historic deadly outbreak on easter. louisiana, mississippi, areas from alabama and even in maybe southern tennessee and we could be watching more tornados, maybe even strong tornados, too. so that area of orange right there, yasmin, keep an eye on that forecast for your sunday. it's that time of year. we're in april and may, our two peak months for tornados. >> we could only hope that the weather in the southeast

underdelivers this time. bill karins, as always, thanks so much. appreciate it, my friend. still ahead, we're going to go live to cnbc for a look at what is driving the day on wall street. still ahead, we have some positive news to report for you. there have been a record number of adoptions at an animal shelt ner florida. for the first time ever as you see there in that photo, the shelter has completely emptied one of its three dog kennels, celebrating this week what it calls an amazing milestone. we're back in a moment. there will be parties again soon, and family gatherings. there will be parades and sporting events and concerts. to help our communities when they come back together, respond to the 2020 census now. spend a few minutes online today to impact the next 10 years of healthcare, infrastructure and education. go to 2020census.gov and respond today

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welcome back. a record 22 million people have applied for unemployment claims in just the last four weeks ago americans continue to struggle with the pandemic shutdown

juliana is joining us live on this. talk to us about these jobless claim numbers, just astounding as we saw those reports come out yesterday. >> yasmin, these are staggering numbers that we're looking at here. in the last week, 5.2 million more americans have filed for unemployment benefits. that means in the last four weeks, more than 22 million americans, or 13% of the labor force, has now asked for assistance. now, a big part of the u.s. economy is small businesses. we know that small businesses have been struggling to deal with the shutdowns associated with the pandemic. the small business administration's rescue loan program hit its $349 billion limit yesterday. this was the program that was aimed at helping those small businesses, those who employ less than 500 employees, keep those employees on payroll. the fact that it has run out of money so quickly, congress has been tasked with coming up with an agreement to extend funding

to the small businesses. so far, they've failed to come to an agreement. this is a space you should be watching closely. important for small businesses and, of course, the unemployment picture in the u.s. in upbeat news for you, we have had encouraging news on the treatment front when it comes to coronavirus. gilead shares surged in after-hours trade after anecdotal but encouraging evidence on the remdesivir, an experimental drug they hope can be a treatment for coronavirus. partial data reported by stat news late yesterday revealed that patients are responding well in severe cases. very early stages. we have to wait until the full data is ready. hopefully later this month, before drawing a conclusion. it is providing a boost to the shares and the broader stock market today. >> that is good news. julianna tattelbaum live from london. great to see you.

axios' one big thing. and on "morning joe," the president's guidance for reopening the economy puts responsibility largely on the governors. new york extends stay at home orders to may 15th. congressman max rose and minority leader chuck schumer will be our guests. "morning joe" is moments away. what is that? uh mine, why? it's just that it's... lavender. yes it is, it's for men but i like the smell of it laughs ♪ and i don't count the wrinkles. but what i do count on is boost high protein. and now, introducing new boost women... with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you.

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wait for it! wait for it! come on man! hit me! wait for it! just do it already! ♪ one more time yeah. the world premiere is now in your home. welcome back, everybody. joining me with a look at axios am, co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. good morning to you. talk to us about axios' one big thing today. >> good morning. yasmin, we're looking at president trump's announcement yesterday. why he did it and why he did it when he did it. the president was very worried if he didn't make the announcement this week, that some of the red states, like texas, florida, and others, might get ahead of him and start reopening their states, even before he said you can reopen your states.

the idea that he was going to control everything, and all the governors would listen to him, was always kind of nonsense. the constitution doesn't allow it. no one internally thought this would be done by federal mandate. he was always going to leave it to the states. at the same time, his economic team, they're really worried. sources were telling swan, multiply it by a hundred in terms of their concern about the u.s. economy, if things don't start returning to some se semblance of normal starting next month. they're worried the economic activity, the businesses that have gone under, what they're seeing in china, that it could be really profound if we don't figure out a way to start getting the economy jump started. despite all the money the fed pumped into the markets, and that the government has okayed. i would watch now, next week, what do red state governors do? there's four or five who are thinking about getting back to work in a pretty robust way. what worries the president is his advisers told him, "listen,

there's ways you can blame other people for wherever the virus originated, but if you push people back to work, you're seen as the person demanding it, and there is a resurgence and you see a huge spike in deaths, that will be on you." that's why you saw a much more careful calibration by trump yesterday than a lot of the bravado and rhetoric you'd heard in the days earlier. >> i'm wondering though why that conversation didn't happen a couple days ago, before the president basically said he had the ultimate power to do what he wanted in this country. that's an aside though. >> well, it's not really an aside. it is a good question. it's actually not an aside. it is a really good question. >> go ahead. >> it's one of the things that is frustrating white house advisers. nobody internally was telling him, "you have the power in the u.s. constitution to dictate the behavior of every state. nor should you want to, given that the virus has different penetration in different states

and different localities." they always knew he'd have to defer to the governors. there's something about him and power. it comes up often, whether it is around war, whether it is around trade, whether it is around his relationship with congress, where he does want to feel all powerful. like, "i am making this decision. i'm determining we are going back to work." when, in fact, none of the private conversations reflected that. most of them were, it was always beginning to be t going to be governors and it was going to be staggered. they were always going to listen to the health officials. there are disconnects between the conversations on the task force and internally, and what the president says when he is on stage, where he really wants to be seen as the decider in all of these circumstances. >> jim vandehei, thank you, as always, my friend. going to be reading axios am in a little bit. you can sign up at signup.axios.com. that does it for me on this friday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian.

"morning joe" starts now. on the question of a vaccine, we don't have a vaccine for sars. they got close in mice. we don't have a vaccine for hiv. life did go on, right? so the idea that we're definitely going to have a vaccine, we didn't really approach much else in the same way we're pegging going back to normal with a vaccine. did we? >> well, no. but, laura, this is different. hiv aids is entirely different. we don't have a vaccine for hiv aids, but we have spectacularly effective treatment. people who invariably would have died years ago, right now, are leading essentially normal lives. sars is a different story. sars disappeared. we developed a vaccine. we were in the process of going through the various phases. we showed it was safe. we showed it induced a good response. then sars disappeared. we didn't need to develop a vaccine for sars. so i think it's a little bit

misleading maybe to compare what we're going through now with hiv or sars. they're really different. >> but we don't know, this could disappear. i mean, sars did pretty much disappear. this could, as well, correct? >> yeah, yeah. you know, anything could, laura, but i have to tell you, the degree of efficiency of transmissibility of this is really unprecedented in anything i've seen. it is an extraordinarily efficient virus in transmitting from one person to another. >> dr. fauci -- >> these viruses don't just disappear. >> wow. >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday. april 17th. long week. along with joe, willie, and me, we have msnbc national affairs analyst, co-host of showtime's "the cirrus," and editor in chief of the "recount," john