113 patients with severe cases of coronavirus were reportedly treated with an se t experimental drug. two died. most recovered. china says 3,869 people died in

wuhan. that is 50% more than reported. what else might china not be telling us? the $350 billion small business bailout program is officially out of money. what that means for america. "velshi" starts now. good morning. it is saturday, april 18th. i'm ali velshi. in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, the commander in chief sowing the seeds of division as states begin the process of reopening. donald trump said liberate michigan, minnesota and virginia after anti-protest in the states after restrictions brought on by covid-19. the three governors doing their best to maintain order. as the facts show the rate of new cases and deaths continue to rise nationwide.

the total fatalities climb to over 36,000. the confirmed cases in the united states surpassing 699,000. on thursday, the white house laying out a phase three approach on how to get folks back to work. ultimately the decision to get back to work to states and their governors. >> over the next very short period of time, it support to the governor, we will help them. we will work with them. it is up to the governors. i think you will see a few states open. i call it a beautiful puzzle. you have 50 pieces. all very different. when it is all done, it is a mosaic. it will be a very beautiful picture. >> i call it a beautiful puzzle, he says. guidance calls on states to qualify to reopen. there is no mention of a

national testing strategy. funding, support or replace demand items like ppe or hospital supplies. >> it is up to the governors to reopen. okay. i'm going to reopen. i get it. and you don't want to help on testing which is a national problem and replicates the same chaos you created with medical supplies because fema wasn't ready. >> all this is happening as several drug manufacturers are making strides if the efforts to street coronavirus. a trial out of chicago involving gilead research are remdesivir is showing signs of treatment in patients. and sanofi is developing a vaccine next year if the

clinical trials go as planned. the company's ceo paul hudson says it is not the only option it has in working trials. >> we also have another shot which is an mrna which is a cutting edge technology. we are bringing both forward. two shots on goal. we are delighted to be bringing them forward and trying to do something to help patients. >> the can fadian in me loves t statement two shots on goal. and joining me now is the infectious disease physician with the special pathogens unit and our msnbc contributor. pa matthew, let's start with you. tell me about the report you wrote about the study. it was detailed and in depth, but for our viewers who are

desperate for a solution or treatment for coronavirus, tell me what the study is about. >> i want to emphasize this is a reason for hope. this is a suggestion. it is not a definitive in terms of the results of the study. this is one center from the first clinical trial of remdesivir. one of the first drugs pu s put testing against covid-19. what we obtained is a video that was sent to faculty at university of chicago where one of the investigators from the trial -- there are dozens of hospitals involved in the trial -- this is just one of them. one of the investigators at the trial described as you said what sounded like very good results in severe covid-19 patients. these are patients classify as severe, but not on ventilators at the beginning of the study.

not the sickest. we have even results in patients with ventilators as positive. there is a problem with the data. there is not a random 00control group. this is just one snapshot. it does suggest potentially when we get full results of the study, hopefully this month, that we could see something positive. there are more trials of this drug that are reading out over the next two months. >> now, just to be clear, this is gilead sciences and university of chicago. a major pharmaceutical company. this has not been released by them. they did confirm that the video you based reporting was in fact verified. it is true. where are they? where are the companies and university on what they warrant people to think about this drug?

>> they say quite correctly we need to wait for full results and you shouldn't draw conclusions from partial data. this video was news. it was something that was reported and important and we didn't want to sit on. they say we need to wait for the full results of the study. that's correct. this is a suggestion of what might happen. not the final call. >> dr. bedhelia, forgive me. i'm not a scientist or doctor. i think this drug, remdesivir, was used or tried out during ebola? >> yes. this was a drug developed with gilead and the u.s. research. the drug was deployed in a double of scenarios in the most

recent ebola outbreak. during my work in uganda, we deployed it for compassionate use. we didn't have to use it. the data from that particular trial, the pom trial, compared remdesivir to three other drugs. it wasn't as effective. it was not against placebo. it raises the caveat that matthew brought up. there is data out there for covid-19. a compassionate use report by gilead. that setting it showed improvement in lung function, but to what? no placebo. one report that matthew talked about with severe patients and another trial looked at less sick patients that is against placebo. and a trial comparing it against placebo. that trial data is really

important. for people looking at it, i think gielad's response and what i have seen and others have seen with the data and other diseases. there is effectiveness. the answer is when? early? later? that's why they designed the trial the way they did. this is a drug that stops viral replicati replication. it is effective to give it earlier rather than later. i would say promising, but as matthew said waiting for the random control results or more data printed on paper is helpful. >> and just one thing i want to bring up. it may be promising, but like the promises with hydroxyohloroquine, nobody should self medicate. this is not a drug you can self medicate. anything anybody does with coronavirus should be done under the care of a doctor. >> that is true. this has side effects. this is not an fda approved drug

for any other indication. it is not on market. it is an intravenous drug. the way remdesivir is given is within 5 to 7 days. you have to maintain a certain level of agnosticism. >> matthew, thank you for your reporting. matthew is a senior writer and author of the article. dr. bhadelia is a medical contributor at msnbc. turning to news of possible drug shortages to coronavirus. fda is announcing a shortfall of 20 medications because of covid-19. experts say they range from common over-the-counter products li like tylenol and others used in ventilators. joining me now is a former veterans affair secretary.

the author of it shouldn't be this hard to serve your country. how much of this is shortages of drugs to treat people and the hoarding people have. >> this is a real problem that people are not talking about. we spend time thinking about do we have enough hospital beds or ventilators or supporting our sd staff. if our doctors and nurses don't have the basic supplies, we can't do the job we need for patients. we are talking about not just the ventilators, but the tubing for the ventilators. the intravenous fluids and the drugs getting scarce. part of the reason is that so many of these medications are

produced overseas. specifically in china and india. we have seen export bans from china and india of drugs that have active pharmaceutical ingredients. what is necessary to produce the medications. we have seen the bans to the united states. as you said, these are pretty common drugs in many cases. a lot of antibiotics are getting scarce. we are seeing common drugs as you mentioned, but the paralytic drugs and sedatives for covid-19 patients on ventilators. if you don't have the right medications, you cannot keep patients comfortable and safe. this is an issue we need to be more open about. the fda needs to come out and tell us what these drugs are. not there are 20 drugs shortage. if you can't hide these problems, we need people to work on them and you need to know which drugs are in short supply.

>> secretary, you are also a medical doctor and president of the medical center. you have suggestions about this. i want to underscore the point. 19 of the top 20 best selling brands of drugs come from countries outside of the united states. you have some suggestions. including openly reporting all shortages, lengthening expiration dates and sharing data and enforceable reporting and the use of the defense production act which the administration has been sheepish about. >> ali, i think you are correct. it is essential that we begin to start putting solutions into place right now. you can't fix problems if you don't talk about them. this crisis has exposed real issues in the american supply

chain and there are 34 drugs with no alternative manufacturers except china has revealed the shortage and the problem. the fda needs to let us know where we are on the shortages. new zealand is a country reports these openly and transparency, i believe, is the best policy. then we can start develop sharing programs. once we know what is in short supply, hospitals can share to help patients. you mention this defense production act. we know the president has used this for ventilators. now appears we have plenty of ventilators and more coming. when it comes to diagnostic testing that we need more of and when it comes to the common supplies and medications that are putting americans at risk because we don't have them, that's really the time to consider and to start taking action to use the defense

production act to get manufacturers going so americans have what they need at the time they're sick. >> secretary shulkin, thanks. he is a former veteran affairs secretary and author of "it shouldn't be this hard to serve your country." the best way to put the open for business sign back on america is a strategy of covid-19 testing. with some experts suggesting we need to test 20 to 30 million people a day. i'll talk to a rutgers researchers devel researchers behind a developing test. you're watching "velshi." can it one up breakfast in bed? yeah, for sure. thanks, boys. what about that? uhh, yep! it can? yeah, even that! i would very much like to see that. me too. introducing new tide power pods.

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i think 29 states are in that ball game, not open. i think they'll be able to open relatively soon. i think the remainder are getting better. we have a lot of states that through location, through luck, and also through a lot of talent. we have states with a lot of talent are in a good position and getting ready to open. >> president trump claiming 29 states are heready to open soon. experts warn against it without mass testing. data driven. we don't just need mass testing, but widespread testing with

accurate data. there are currently 90 antibody tests on the market, only one of them has fda approval. that is an issue. the director of infectious diseases says having inaccurate tests is worse than having no test at all. trump's plan to reopen does not contain a national testing strategy. you have to underscore. no national testing strategy. testing in the states is down 30% despite new numbers from the covid-19 tracking project that show nearly 1 in 5 people who get tested in the united states is found to have coronavirus. increased coronavirus testing capaci capacity. maybe the united states needs to reexamine the options. maybe a saliva test to give results in 48 hours and to replace the nose swab system. joining me now is andrew brooks.

chief operations officer and director of technology of rutgers cell and dna lab. andrew, thank you for joining us. let me be clear. when we are talking about testing, some testing is for whether you have coronavirus and some testing is for whether you had coronavirus and now have the antibodies. which one are you involved in? >> ours looks at if you have coronavirus. if you are infectious and you should be keeping your distance and quarantining because you can infect other people. >> you do have fda approval for the test? >> we have an emergency use authorization to use saliva as the starting material for the tests which facilitate enhanced collection by being able to collect more samples and more quickly and also have more robust testing. >> early to talk about mucous.

we have mucous in our eyes and mouth and nose. i was curious why this goes up your nose as opposed to saliva. this is a concern that saliva doesn't hold enough of the virus as up in your nose. >> our data shows and what we presented to the fda is there is actually potentially more virus in your saliva. and that's why this is also so infectious. what we did in our study is we looked at equal amount based on the sample. we took one swab. put it in a large volume of media. we took two mls of saliva. we found the amount of virus on a mass by mass ratio is more. we can detect at the closer end

of infection and more accurately test at the tail end when you are stopping shedding virus. repeated testing in the same individuals is what we're talking about to get a better handle on what we should be doing and getting people back to their normal lives. >> because it is fast and you can do 10,000 a day, but you can ramp up and it is relatively inexpensive test, you can do that multiple testing. andrew, thank you. the chief operating officer and director of technology cell and dna repository lab. thank you, andrew. coming up, some officials want to reopen america. why those on the frontlines are begging them to reconsider. >> i hear they want to open up america again because, i guess, the unemployment's too high? i don't know. i mean, i understand and i'm

sorry for people that's suffering from unemployment, but i'm seeing so much pain and sadness and sickness every single day. i don't understand why they would even consider it. i have always wanted to be a teacher. i've been teaching for over 20 years. with everything going on, we've had to alter our classroom settings. we have to transition into virtual learning. on the network, we can have teachers face-to-face with a student in live-time. they can raise their hand and ask questions.

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for weeks, my administration has been at work on the plan to reopen pennsylvania. and we're going to make sure we have a plan to respect the reality of the situation on the ground. unfortunately, we cannot flip a switch and reopen the commonwealth. there isn't going to be one big day. we need to make smart, data driven decisions. we can't be impulsive. we can't be emotional. we need to follow the science. >> that's the pennsylvania governor tom woclf. he wants to be smart about it by

sticking to the facts about the spread of coronavirus. pre president trump's reopening of america plan passes the responsibility to the states. the fact is there are fears that reopening may cause a surge in covid-19 cases. joining me from the jbf plant is correspondent maura barrett. 17 workers tested positive for the coronavirus at the plant. one person has died. so this is an example of how reopening the state might make matters worse. >> reporter: exactly, ali. this is one of four plants in the region that had to close due to the spread of coronavirus with hundreds of workers testing positive. they are working to adhere the guidelines to the worker safety standards that the secretary of health put out this week. they are looking to do a soft reopen on monday.

with the guidelines, plant workers i spoke to are anxious about another outbreak. obviously, working on an assembly line shoulder to shoulder is not conducive with social distancindistancing. these are essential businesses. the governor is facing a lot of pressure from the businesses around the state that had to shutdown in mid march to reopen the economy. the governor gave an address yesterday and he talked about how opening too early could be a bigger health risk to pennsylvanians. listen. >> i think every single american, i know every single pennsylvanian is eager to get back to work and reopen. i'm included in that. what we don't want to do is reopen and then be hit by the virus in a way that overwhelms our health care system. right now, we are making good progress. let's continue to make the good progress and keeping people safe and then when the time is right, we're going to reopen and we'll

liberate every single pennsylvanian. >> reporter: the governor making a reference to the president's tweets yesterday talking about liberating certain states economies. the governor is eager to reopen pennsylvania, but it will be a regional approach. a data driven approach. one issue he talked about is the state will have adequate protective equipment. ali. >> he has said that a reopening doesn't mean everything. certainly limitations on large gatherings. maura barrett in pennsylvania. joining me now is shannon pet pettypiece. other latest article dives into the president's desire to reopen the economy as soon as possible and the risks associated with that.

and eddie glaud jr. chair of the department of african-american studies. good morning to both of you. shannon, you have been covering the president's briefings and the day-to-day shift in which he goes from data to this what seems to be impulsive, irrelevasistible urge to minimi coronavirus to open the nation up. give me thing the thinking of t white house. >> reporter: there has been a push to get things back open. you remember he was talking about easter. having churches packed full on easter. >> we will get shannon back in a minute. we have a technical problem. that happens these days. we are all coming to you from our homes on the internet.

i have eddie still. if i do -- do i have eddie? i do. the protests to liberate michigan and virginia. protest s at the michigan state house where they have calls for lock her up. a gathering in a place of social distancing. it has reminisce of the tea party and a way that has people feeling incitement. this is not an opinion matter of whether you think we should open america and shannon pettypiece thinks we should wait longer. something has changed in the last week. i think -- i'm going to ask the viewers in you can hear me? if the viewers can hear me, we

should be able to hear somebody on this tv station. i'm checking with my director. can you still hear me? all right. all right. it sounds like the viewers hear me. we will get shannon and eddie worked out and get back on tv with them in just a moment. when we come back, we will talk to bill rogers. chief economist with the department of labor about what we have seen in terms of the government's rescue plan and ba bailouts formal business. $350 billion set aside. that money ran out on thursday morning. we'll talk about that when we come back. all those places out there, are now in here. that's why we're still offering fast, free two day shipping on thousands of items. even the big stuff. and doing everything it takes to ensure your safety.

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since we first learned of the potential scope of coronavirus and the impact it would have on our society and economy, i have argued in favor of big sweeping change. this is the opportunity we can make the biggest long lasting difference. what is clear is how little we do for some of the people who may be helping us the most in our time of greatest need. the fact is this crisis has demonstrated our society and economy runs on hourly low wage workers. they are the ones most impacted

bri by job losses and they are our essential workers. they work on farms largely invisible to us. they deliver our meals or groceries so we don't go outdoors and staff groceries and keep our hospitals clean. exposing themselves to danger daily so the rest of us stay home. many of them make close to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. as people work longer shifts and increasingly dangerous conditions, it is more important than ever that they are paid a fair wage. a wage that gives them the dignity to afford a home and basics for their families. and now is the time for us to do the right thing. a few years ago, a $12 an hour minimum wage seemed radical. now the call is for $15 an hour. an amount that people call socialist. $15 an hour is $30,000 a year.

a socialist would be embarrassed that such a system allowed people to earn so little. the last time congress passed an increase to the federal minimum wage of may of 2007. 13 years ago when the last crisis was brewing. many have higher minimums. many don't. $7.25 an hour. $15,080. look at what you spend. if you can live on $15,080 a year, i would like to hear from you. that or close to that is what millions of americans earn. now small businesses legitimately worry they cannot afford this, when now they cannot since they are imperilled. this is not a small concern. the fact is increasing the minimum wage requires a shift in how we think.

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you noticed. it happens. we are overloading the internet. we are doing things on skype and zoom and face doctotime we don' usually do. my gratitude to them. i want to continue the conversation. i started to have and we will do it in all sorts of ways right now. some will be on the phone and some people on facetime and some on skype. they are all great thinkers and we need great answers to some of our big questions. the one i've got right now is the $350 billion loan program for small businesses that ran out of funds. just to be clear, $350 billion was never going to be enough for america's small businesses. half of america is employed by small business. yet, half of america employed by big business have completely different avenues to get money. there are lots of small businesses that are still struggling to make it day-to-day. maybe didn't get their applications in for the loans.

and the hardest hit states like california and new york have had the highest number of loan requests. meanwhile, look at where the money went. didn't go to some of those places. negotiations to add another $250 billion to the program, which by the way is still not enough, continue between congress and trump administration. the fact is the program's first come first serve system has been an issue. 1.6 million applications were received but many did not receive their loans. many loans did not get approved. the lax criteria led to more businesses with more resources with bulk of funding leaving small business behind. my partner stephanie ruhle said it is a huge benefit for private clubs and law firms and investment managers and accounting firms with the resources to complete their applications quickly. they may have had them done the minute this was announced.

some wealthy individuals set up limited liability companies which technically qualify for the loans. they put yachts and planes and personal staffs in to qualify. i bet the bodega down the street from me may not have gotten the application in. many of small businesses are in fluctuating to see if they survive the storm. here with me is the professor at rutgers university. former chief economist at the department of labor and kimberly weisel. editor at large for "inc." shannon pettypiece and eddie is back with me. do i have eddie on the phone or with me in some fashion? i do? okay. let me know when i get eddie. i want to finish my conversation about the protests that have occurred about liberating the states because they are not what you think they are. they are not organic protests of

people going out. they are funded by conservative groups and they are provoked by the president. let's talk about kimberly. let's talk to kimberly. talk to me about the problem. small businesses are like low wage earners. they are the unsung heroes of the economy. they hire lots of people. they employ half of america and as much as we like them all to have a year's worth of extra cash flow, pretty much none do. >> no. small businesses operate close to the bone. when something like this happens and they are unable to bring in revenue, it is difficult for most of them. one of the problems with this ppe program, loan program that is supposed to help them keep employees on payroll, is because the banks were overwhelmed, they dealt with people they had existing loan relationships with. that's why your corner small

business owner may not have been able to have a conversation with someone about how this was supposed to happen. the largest banks were overwhelmed. you needed a personal in to get your application submitted to the sba. the people that we know who have had best luck with this, who are sort of not in the groups of people that you mentioned before, the actual small business owners, have been working with community banks because they can walk in the door, maybe wearing a mask, and staying six feet away but talk to someone that they know who's invested in their community and wants to help this business keep running. >> and the fact is, look, we can't have a system in which it's all willy nilly and loose and everybody who claims they have a business gets a loan the way people used to get mortgages before 2008, but at the same time, the bodega around the corner, the corner bar are busy, their employees are busy probably 80 or 100 hours a week running their business.

they don't have people who maintain relationships with the bank in the same way larger businesses do. larger businesses might have been able to organize the documents necessary and the filings necessary to get their applications in at the front of the line, that's the way the system works. first-in, first-out. >> the gig workers, the people who are self-employed, those single person llcs, they weren't even eligible to apply for this program until a full week had passed and it had been opened. a huge chunk of the money was already accounted for by then. by the time the treasury actually came out with guidance on how the smallest of small businesses could apply, the program would only be open for two more days, so hardly any of those folks managed to get even a loan approval, never mind money, which most people, even the first people to apply don't have yet. >> kimberly, talk to me about the effect of this, because if you are a small business, many small businesses as we know are are boot strapped, right? they start funded maybe by

friends and family, by credit cards and things like that. if you can't make payroll and you can't get a loan, that's it. >> yeah, so payroll, there are a couple of options for people because we do have the expanded unemployment now, right? so you can -- this loan that we're talking about is really only designed to keep people on payroll. that made sense, i think, when they were starting to roll it out and thinking about it a month ago, but small businesses now have very little place to turn for rent help, frankly, which is a huge problem. a few states have started to loop in commercial properties to their kind of rent relief programs for homeowners like in a lot of states if you are a homeowner you can get your rent deferred for a number of months. a few states and municipalities are doing that for businesses now. this money that businesses were supposed to get that is such a mess now was specifically for employees. it wasn't really to help them with their utilities, to help

them with inventory that might have gone bad, to help them buy new inventory. none of that was covered under this program. you could only use a small amount of loan money for those purposes. sometimes none at all. there was another program called idol which was supposed to help with those things. and frankly it's in an even worse state. small businesses right now are really struggling. as of last week 11% of them said they would have to close permanently if they didn't get help within a month. so the clock is really ticking on these businesses. and as we've seen in a lot of publications including my own, these are the main streets we all rely on. these are big reasons that we moved to the towns we move to is because there's a walkable downtown with a local merchants who support the economy. you know, these are the people who when they're able, they're sponsoring your kids' little league team. when you spend money with an independent business, in general, 68% of that stays in

your local economy. i love starbucks. i go there a lot, but the profits from that business, they go back to seattle. i don't live in seattle. so it's really important that we have strong local economies and these businesses are key to that. >> i want to bring in some of my other guests. we're slowly getting everybody back online. i've got eddie glaude joining me. i was asking you and i think you couldn't hear me, but i was asking you about the protests that took place at the michigan state house the other day. they were not -- they were not things that just happened. it wasn't just a bunch of people who decided that governor gretchen whitmer was a criminal and should be locked up. they actually used the chant lock her up, which was used about hillary clinton. they gathered in defiance of a stay at home order. there were security people there begging them not to get out of their cars and gather. who knows whether any of them were sick or making other people sick. but this was funned ded by conservative groups and encouraged by the president in

tweets in which he said liberate virginia, tweets which some people think might incite violence. this thing had echoes of the tea party, except the tea party had some economic arguments that were actually worth arguing about. this is just nonsense. >> right, and i think it's important for us to be deeply and profoundly skeptical about the motivation. you know, we talked in the early days of the tea partying that this was astro turfing protests that we needed to understand how business was kind of driving in some ways the mobilization of folks who were against the aca. but i think it's important for us to understand the role of steven moore a, stephen moore who's on covid-19 advisory policy for president trump has started a new group called save our country, which is all about lobbying for a quick opening of the economy. so we need to be deeply skeptical, kind of investigate, trace the money as it were

because what we're seeing, i think is something that's an old phrase that goes all the way back to 1922 and walter litman, we're seeing the manufacturing of consent here. not only through fox news but what president trump is doing with his press conferences. he's trying to in some ways generate a kind of public will to put people at risk, and we need to understand that he's making a choice and that choice is dangerous in its implication. >> and just to underscore your point, the chamber of commerce, the u.s. chamber of commerce financed and helped out the tea party movement in the beginning and you know, this might be a pro-business thing, but it's manifesting as something else when you tell a rightfully elected governor of a state, when you suggest that they are doing something illegal when, in fact, they are -- they are doing -- following the guidelines that were put out by

the white house. eddie, thank you for joining me. kimber kimberly weisell thank you for joining me. my apologies to shannon and bill rogers for our technical difficult tiffs. the former chief economist with the u.s. department of labor. eddie glaude is a professor at princeton university, andweisel large at ink. ayanna pressley of massachusetts joins me to talk about the president's ideas for reopening america. you're watching "velshi." and we'll be here to serve you for a hundred more. ♪ and we'll be here to serve you for a hundred more. ♪ ♪all strength ♪we ain't stoppin' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat

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