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welcome back, i'm ali velshi. we are nearing a new milestone, almost 700,000 americans have been diagnosed with covid-19 in the united states, almost 36,700 have died by our count here at nbc news all in a three-month period. in fact, on thursday, more americans died of covid-19 than in the entire iraqi war. in the last month, 22 million americans have filed for unemployment insurance wiping out nearly all of the job gains since the financial crisis. president trump who's not known for his patience continues to become more eager to open the country by the minute, while the experts urge extreme caution. >> this new opening up, which

has that requirement of early case diagnosis and isolation and contact tracings is really embedded as you'll see in the phases but still maintaining that personal vigilance, that personal mitigation so that we can continue to limit and protect the vulnerable in this nation. so it's important not to let up at all but do this in a prudent, gradual way. >> as was the case last weekend, president trump has no public events on his schedule today. there's no coronavirus task force briefing scheduled either. joining me now is the massachusetts congresswoman ayanna pressley, a member of the house financial services and oversight and reform committees. she's one of the authors of the recent boston globe piece, bold action needed to battle coronavirus in communities of color. and in some related news, she helped pressure the cdc into announcing that it's going to begin releasing racial and ethnic data on covid-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. congresswoman, thank you for

being here. good to see you again, and this is a topic that's been close to us on this show. the disparitiedisparities, and , these disparities have occurred every time there is some infectious breakout, whether it's tb or aids, people who are of lower income, work in places where they cannot avoid other people, work in situations where they cannot afford to not work and stay home and who have underlying health conditions get hit worse, and in america's case, that is black and brown people right now as well as other poor people. >> that's correct. the reason why i began that call early on banging the drum and the need for us to collect racial data in realtime to disaggregate it to publicly report is it because history has shown us that black and brown communities disproportionately bear the brunt of all of our public health challenges. but this is certainly true when it comes to viruses. we saw that with the h1n1 as

well. the number of hospitalizations and fatalities, there was a greater representation from african-americans, and so history has shown us, and that is why we began banging the drum early. i'm encourage ds ed by the announcement by the cdc. it is a step in the right direction to save lives, but we still need more. so the bill we introduced this week asked for resources for our states and our municipalities in order to do the rapid testing. the whole point of collecting data, ali, is so that we can get ahead of this. you know, we are, unfortunately already behind because of the science denials, the criminal negligence, the sluggish response of this administration, and behind is the last place you want to be when you're dealing with a pandemic like the coronavirus. and so the data is not so that we can lament, oh, what we've seen in the past is bearing out again. we know the structural racism exists. we know there's unequal access

to health care. anecdotally we already know what's going to happen, we need the data to save lives. it directly informs where the resources go. in the district i represent, the massachusetts 7th, the african-american community makes up 25% of the population, yet represents 40% of covid-19 cases. inchelsea, predominantly latinx community, 70% of the covid-19 cases are represented. they have 400 new cases confirmed just this last weekend, and so chelsea is proving to be a hot spot. and so because massachusetts was one of those states that was sharing data, now the lines of communication are open. the national guard is now there helping to address food insecurity concerns, and we are exploring other ways mobile testing, rapid testing, so there's still more that needs to be done, but we're moving in the right direction. >> congresswoman, you ran for office on the basis of the idea that we need massive structural

change, and there were really good reasons for that in 2018. there might be more impetus to do that now. there are people including conservatives who are looking at the idea of universal health care who had never thought about that before because they would realize that people including the communities we're talking about who otherwise don't get the health care that they need and then suffer from increased levels of diabetes and heart disease and shorter longevity, maybe that would be helpful right now. is there a moment -- i was talking last hour about minimum wage increases. is there a moment for us to say that these kinds of things will happen again. we can as a society and an economy be better prepared for them. >> well, absolutely. imagine just what our preparedness would have been if we did have universal health care, if we did have universal paid leave and sick leave and what we see happening again, why this pandemic is disproportionately being bore by

black and brown communities is that they also continue to be exposed at a high rate because they represent the lion's share of the essential work forces. leader mcconnell recently said that he's frustrated with the democrats all theways trikying their wish list. i have a wish that we center the humanity and dignity of every single family and worker and we can do that with the political will and courage. when secretary mnuchin says people can get by on a $1,200 one-time cash assistance for ten weeks, that shows the disconnectedness, and i could argue the callousness of this administration. when donald trump says that we need to reopen this country, he's missing the point. our greatest wealth is the health of our people. we don't have to make these false binary choices between the market or people's lives. there is no market. there is no economy if people are not alive and thriving. and so we're going to continue to push for that wish list. now is the time for structural change. >> i got no beef with secretary

mnuchin. i don't know the man, $1,200 for ten weeks is $17 a day. $17 a day, again, i invite viewers to email m me mystory@velshi.com. if you can figure out the math of how someone lives on $17 a day. massachusetts congresswoman ayanna pressley, thank you as always for joining me. a new analysis by the "new york times" highlights the central role women are playing in the pandemic. one in three jobs held by women has been designated as essential. non-white women are more likely to be doing these essential jobs. joining me now, washington correspondent for the "new york times" and msnbc contributor, charlie savage is the author of the book "power wars: the relentless rise of presidential authority and secrecy." his latest article dives into president trump's latest threat, this time to adjourn congress. charlie, good to see you. thank you for joining me.

i have to tell you, there's been a lot of articles. when the president talked about adjourning congress, it followed on the heels of the idea that he had said he's in charge. he back pedalled from that one with respect to opening the states and said the states are now in charge, but the president sort of is trying out different things. what's his executive authority when it comes to adjourning congress, and why does he want to do that. >> thanks for having me back on, ali. his authority is limited. it is only if the house and the senate disagree about whether to adjourn for longer than three days, the constitution says a president can then resolve the difference between them. and that's never happened in american history. it's a very limited power. the founders did not want the president to be like a king who would dissolve parliament whenever parliament annoyed him. that was part of their complian

complaints in the declaration of independence. what president trump really wants to do is he wants to make recess appointments, he wants to install judges and officials without having the senate confirm them or choose not to confirm them first, and because the senate has gone into three-day -- a series of three-day breaks in this extended vacation they're having rather than formally adjourning for a lengthy recess, he's not able to do that. it's a recent development in american politics that has annoyed presidents of both parties. president obama tried to challenge it and the supreme court knocked him down 9 to 0. it's just a new reality that basically the recess appointment power is dead, and whether you're trump or obama, you don't like that very much. but it's part of trump pattern of making these head turning sort of claims of total power as he did earlier in the week that aren't really based on much, that it's very unlikely he's

requesti going to be in a position to make that adjournment for a variety of reasons. it makes people's heads explode and it sort of provides a distraction from his handling of the coronavirus. >> joining the conversation, charlie stand by. joining the conversation is erica james, she's the dean of the goi seth ta business school at emory university, she's the incoming dean of the university of pennsylvania's wharton school. she's the first woman and the first african-american to lead the school in the 139-year history. dean james, good to see you. thank you for being with us. you are uniquely suited to this conversation because you're actually sort of a specialist on leadership and organization, and it is the one thing that people like me who are neither scientists nor epidemiologists nor infectious disease specialists nor doctors know where to turn for guidance and advice. whether we are going to complete the way we deal with coronavirus or we are going to look at restarting our economy, what

does a person like you who studies leadership say that we need right now. >> we need leaders that we can trust. as i teach my students and write trust is the ultimate equalizer in situations, particularly of the magnitude of what we're experiencing right now. people need to be able to rely on someone's competence, they feel like they have the skills and the experience to be able to get us through this situation. people need to feel like the communication that is coming from our leaders is transparent, that it's given with adequate frequency, and that people are being candid in what is being communicated to the public. and also, people need to feel like there's a sense of commitment in their leaders. and by commitment, i'm referring to the ability to follow up and do what you see you're going to do to follow up on your commitments. >> dean james, you know, i've always joked that doctors, we all know have the worst handwriting in the world, but i've generally thought that

they're not great communicators, right? we use the term bedside manner about medical professionals and whether or not they're good at dealing with their patients or not. they have strangely medical professionals have turned into the best leaders in our society right now. we are on our channel, we are dependent on doctors, epidemiologis epidemiologists, virologists, infectious disease specialists, doctors, and we are turning to them and hanging on their every word for leadership. it's not where we necessarily expected it to come from, but it's where it's coming from. >> absolutely, and it's not surprising because the notion of competence. they are the professionals who are best able to inform us with the nature of a set of circumstances and issues that the common person knows nothing about. so it's that sense of competence that we are relying on that's coming from our health care professionals at this moment. >> thank you to both of you, charlie savage, washington correspondent for the "new york times" and an msnbc contributor. erica james, please stay with us.

we're going to continue this conversation. this week president trump threatened to adjourn both chambers of congress as we just talked to charlie about if they didn't vote on his judicial nominees. why that's not likely to happen when we return. you're watching "velshi" on msnbc. here's the thing about managing multiple clouds for your business. when you've got public clouds, and private clouds, and hybrid clouds- things can get a bit cloudy for you. but now, there's the dell technologies cloud, powered by vmware. a single hub for a consistent operating experience across all your clouds. that should clear things up. with hepatitis c... ...i ...best for my family.my...

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benjamin franklin is thought to have said our government is a republic if you can keep it, but how do we keep a republic when

the president fails to maintain our institutions by ignoring the constitutional limits placed on him. this weekend he challenged the separation of powers, first claiming to have total authority over states. and again, when he threatened to invoke a provision in the constitution to adjourn congress. >> there are currently 129 nominees stuck in the senate because of partisan obstruction. the senate should either fulfill its duty and vote on my nominees or it should formally adjourn so i can make recess appointments. if the house will not agree to that adjournment i will execute my constitutional authority to adjourn both chambers. >> one constitutional law expert says trump is misinterpreting his powers and argues, quote, the power of the president of the united states in some respects is less than half of queen elizabeth or andrew cuomo. joining me now is the author of that atlantic article, jeffrey

rosen, the president and ceo of the national constitution center and a professor at george washington university law school. maya wiley is also joining us. she's an msnbc legal analyst and university professor at the new school. thanks to both of you, and good morning. jeff rosen, you wrote an article, it says hamilton would not have stood for trump's new constitutional theory, and the important thing about alexander hamilton other than the fact there's this great musical about him is that he believed in very strong executive powers. he was a partisan to george washington and the concept of a president having a lot of powers, and he wouldn't even interpret the president's powers as being as broad as donald trump and his advisers do. >> that's exactly right. hamilton was suspected by some of his fellow founders as being a closet markist, and in the very speech at the constitutional convention where he argued for life terms for the president and the senate, he

emphasized that the president was not a king. that he would be checked by the congress and the courts and he embraced this theory of mixed government, which he got from classical philosophers that said that each of the branches had to check each other to prevent the president from becoming like a king. and then he goes on to say in federalist 69 that in some ways the president has even less power than the dwgovernor of ne york. he specifies the future andrew cuomo by name and then he lists four ways in which the president's power is less than the new york governor and the bran british monarch. >> maya in a press conference yesterday afternoon as the president was talking about these things, andrew cuomo was in a press conference, a reporter read back to him some of the things the president was talking about, and andrew cuomo said this. let's just play it. >> the only thing he's doing, let's be honest, well, it's up to the states to do reopen. by the way, it was always up to

the states. what are you going to grant me what the constitution gave me before you were born? it's called the 10th amendment. i don't need the president of the united states to tell me that i'm governor. alexander hamilton, thomas jefferson, james madison, they are the ones who gave me the power, and i don't need the president of the united states to read the constitution for me. maybe he should have read the constitution before he said he had the power to open the states. >> now, maya, i know you and jeffrey are legal experts, but even simpletons like me who just happen to own a few copies of the constitution, i carry them around with me, enjoy that article 10 of the constitution, this is probably one of the easiest articles to understand. it says the powers not delegated to the united states by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states are reserved to the states respectively or to the people. what do you think's going on with trump? do you think he just floats this stuff to get us all down a

rabbit hole? >> i think that trump would love to be the dictator in chief. i think he would love a world in which anything he said goes, and you know, on some level if you've been running your own business and essentially you've functioned your business as the dictator because that's what the law allows you, maybe you don't understand how the constitution works, and it has to be explained to him over and over again. i think the problem here is that we have seen from donald trump that he really doesn't care what it says, and i say that because we had an impeachment proceeding because the president of the united states wanted to use his power to extort from a foreign government essentially a politically motivated investigation of a rival. that in addition to, you know, congress using this pro forma power, this ability to say we're

going to stay in session, even when we're not physically in d.c. to prevent donald trump from firing jeff sessions, that's one of their fears was he was going to fire jeff sessions in order to protect himself. the this is a president who is motivated by his interests, not the interests of the country, and what andrew cuomo gave him was a civics lesson. >> jeff, i want to just put on the screen one of the tweets that the president sent out yesterday in which -- maybe we've got it, maybe we don't. you don't even need to show it to people. one of them said liberate michigan. one of them said, liberate virginia. this is interesting because there are some people reading this as an incitement for people to stage insurrections and the state capital in michigan the other day, there were people who went out and chanted lock her up about the governor of michigan. talk to me constitutionally about the idea that the president is using his bully pulpit, twitter, to encourage

people to rise up against their governors. >> well, what's so remarkable about it is that it's historically unprecedented. when you think of previous rebellions in the states against state governments, the presidents have always sided with the governors in putting down the insurrections. george washington literally led a militia, led an army to put down the whiskey rebellion in the 1790s which was a protest against the whiskey tax. president jackson, president trump's hero ended up denying the ability of south carolina to nullify laws and refuse to pay the hated tariff of abominati s abominations, so as far as i can tell, this is the first time in history where a president has actively encouraged citizens to rise up against their state governors and defy state laws. whether it counts as incitement it has to be intended to cause

lawless action. but it really departs from the general idea that the president is supposed to support the state governors, not openly encourage their defiance. >> right, your point, your legal point is interesting because twitter was asked about whether or not those tweets from the president justified either taking him off of twitter or getting rid of those tweets, and they said that it was too vague to suggest incitement or violence and that it didn't violate their policies. so there's a fine legal argument there and i appreciate you two fine legal minds helping me this morning, jeffrey rosen is the president and ceo of the national constitution center, which by the way has some remarkable online programs going on right now. if you do find yourself with a little extra time, head over to the national constitution center where you are going to get to hear from some of the smartest constitutional minds in the country. he's a professor at george washington university law school, msnbc analyst maya wiley

is a professor at the news school, and someone upon whom i rely upon greatly. thank you to both of you. you would not know it, but we are less than seven months away from the 2020 presidential election. joe biden, the apparent democratic nominee is quietly getting his cabinet in order while keeping up his criticism of president trump. >> he's doing the exact thing we teach our kids not to do, blame somebody else. , your bold canine caper, your dinner in the dark, your mammoth masterpiece, (whispering) your 3:47am snack, and whatever happened here. oscar mayer is found in more fridges than anyone else, because it's the taste you count on. make every sandwich count. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey.

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we have seen the importance of having a leader that we can count on in a crisis. it's not donald trump. it is joe biden. >> if he asked you to be his running mate, would you say yes? >> yes. >> apparent democratic nominee joe biden has already committed to choosing a woman as his running mate for the white house, and now he's looking ahead to building his administration. he's floating the idea of

potentially naming some cabinet positions before november's election, but as our country works to reopen and jump start the economy, what ideas should be considered at a time like this? what kind of leadership and policies do we need to put in place to reflect how our government should be helping people all the time and not just in times of crisis? joining me now senior fellow at the center on budget and policy priorities and former chief economist and economic adviser to vice president joe biden. and back with us, erica james, dean of emory university's goyzetta business school and the first woman and african-american dean of the wharton business school at the university of pennsylvania. dean james, let me start with you because when joe biden floated this idea of announcing cabinet members, it took me back to late fall 2008, the middle of the financial crisis, the election hadn't happened yet. it was barack obama versus john mccain. john mccain had stumbled in his

appointment of sarah palin as his vice presidential candidate, and barack obama gave a press conference in which he surrounded himself with names like paul volker and robert reuben and people from the clinton administration, and the message he was conveying was you may not think i'm all that experienced or as experienced as john mccain, but look at this team i'm assembling behind me to handle this financial crisis. i'm showing that video on screen right now. you can see a number of former leaders from previous administrations gathering around barack obama. there's an issue with joe biden in the minds of a lot of people, right? maybe he's sort of past his prime on this, he's prone to some gaffes. he doesn't have support across the political spectrum, even amongst democrats. talk to me about this move, this idea that we're in crisis, and i might present you with a team and you're sort of voting for that team, not just me. >> well, absolutely. there is no one individual, nor

one party quite frankly that can address the issues of the magnitude that we are facing right now. so the more that any of our leaders begin to identify and surround themselves with people who have the expertise, who are the confidence, who have the experience to get us through this issue the better, and it will be interesting in whom joe biden chooses to surround himself with. the image that you had on just a few minutes ago with barack obama walking out on stage, that was a powerful image because people got a sense that he's taking this issue seriously. he recognizes his shortcomings, and knows enough to know that he needs to rely on the expertise of so many people. and i hope that leaders throughout this next election cycle begin to do the same thing. >> jared bernstein, you are an economic expert, but at the time of the last election, neither -- that election in which barack obama won, the time of the last

session, neither john mccain nor barack obama were noted as economic experts, and that move sort of said but i'm surrounded by a bunch of people who know that. at this point, what's the message that joe biden needs to send out there? because he started this campaign talking about charlottesville and the soul of america and all of that. it's all shifted into a discussion about competence and crisis management. >> yeah. three words, competent, functional governance. this is something that vice president biden holds very dear to his heart. you'll recall -- and especially around when we're talking about intervening in a sharp economic downturn, you'll recall that the vice president was the implementer in chief of the recovery act, which was the stimulus last time around, and that was when i was working with him most closely, and he deeply values the kind of functional governance that we just haven't

seen anything like nearly enough of over the last few years. i will say that the current administration working with the congress and pelosi and schumer loomed large in this part of it, did put together a sizable package, and they're getting money out the door. but when you think about the testing and the problems that are making this such a difficult slump to get out of, that's very much a competence issue with the current administration, and i think that's the kind of message that biden will want to send. >> erica james, when you think about the crises we remember, 9/11, the last financial crisis, things like that, we hadn't really thought at those two times about the extent to which the leadership matters, right? the idea that regular people feel a little hopeless and helpless in what they can do, so we look to that biggest thing, government. you may not even like government

all that much but in moments or terrorism or recession, you believe that they've got the resources and the access to the smarts to be able to solve that problem. earlier when you and i talked, you said in a crisis of leadership, trust is the thing that matters most. what is the thing that americans should do when they don't have that trust right now? >> great question. so we might not feel as if our leaders at the highest levels are operating in a way that provides confidence, but there are people who are operating in ways, in small ways within their local communities, within their organizations, even within their own homes that can help instill small amounts of confidence and trust that there are people in the domain that they have responsibility for who are, in fact, seeking to make a difference and make a difference in a positive way. so it's not always about looking at the highest levels of government, although, sure, we need a functioning and effective government, but it is also being

mindful that every day we have teachers and educators who are out there doing remarkable things in a time of crisis, and that has to give hope that our families and children will continue to be educated. we look at the hospital care providers who are doing remarkable things with respect to leadership and are on the front lines every day making small and big differences that are providing hope. i think the thing we need now is to understand that we will at one point get out of this crisis, and we have to have people who are helping us identify and see what the future will look like. >> yeah, i look outside every day at 7:00 p.m. in manhattan when we go out to clap for everybody and i see people pushing carts of groceries and things like that, and i think to myself in a strange way that's leadership. these are people who have decided society has to keep going and the economy has to keep going and i'm going to do what i can so that others can do what they need to do including

stay home. there's leadership in places where you don't expect it. thanks to both of you, jared, always good to see you, my friend. jared bernstein is a senior fellow at the center on budget and policy priorities and he was a former chief economist and economic adviser to vice president joe biden. erica james, i'll look forward to having you on the show frequently. the current dean of the business school at emory university and the incoming dean of the university of pennsylvania's wharton school. our fearless front line medical workers are still complaining about the lack of proper kbiequipment making it t much harder to do their jobs. more on that when we come back. >> we have seen how unfair this virus can be in who it chooses and it's very unforgiving in how it affects them. and so it's difficult right now. it's difficult to come here every day and not give up.

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the number of coronavirus cases and deaths may appear to plateau here in new york. the epicenter of the pandemic, but that doesn't mean health care workers aren't still in hospitals working on the front lines, and in many cases they're doing it without enough protective equipment. local new york news outlet, the city, reports that of the nearly 34 million masks contracted by

new york city, only a little over 600,000 have been received as of friday. now, despite this, medical professionals continue to show up to work every single day. i am joined by new york city er doctor calvin sun. dr. sun, give me a picture of what's going on in these hospitals, in these emergency wards. we've heard from day one there's a shortage of material and supplies. we've heard that people are reusing things, they're trying to clean things themselves, but nobody's not coming to work because of it. >> right, we're still going to work all the time because that's what we have to do, regardless of if we have ppe or not, and that's the situation we are living in right now. i personally have given up trying. as a per diem, i've now relied on personal donations from family and friends. i'm okay now because my friends and family, new york city comes together after every tragedy, as you said, every, you know, obstacle, we will support one another. so now i have my personal stash that i go in feeling protected,

and i bring n95 masks that my family has donated or my friends have given to my staff workers for them to use. so everyone has some kind of method to protect themselves because, you know, we have to be able to take care of ourselves first before we can take care of other people. >> right, right, you have to take care of yourselves so you can take care of other people, although you're exposing yourself to this infection, and you have family and like many of us, you may have family who are vulnerable who you don't want to see get sick from this. how do you and your colleagues manage the duality of this, the idea that you've got to protect people. you need to not get the disease, and you need to not take it home with you. >> yeah, my mom has parkinson's disease. her father, my grandfather, has covid-19 and is hospitalized. like there was this whole difficulty in trying to figure out where will she be safer staying, now she's with me, but we try to stay apart. it's a dilemma we have to wrestle with every day when we come home because we're not just

health care workers on the front line, but we're also human beings with families and friends, and we have emotions that are difficult, but we have to take care of our patients as well, as well as the people back home. so the answer, it depends on the person. it's this constant battle that we face on a daily basis that we don't really expose, you know, on -- you know, on the exterior, but it's something that we bring home with us. i worry about that after this pandemic is over that ptsd consequences of having to go in and on a daily basis not knowing what the right decision is. because there is no right or wrong when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and that's every day for us. >> correct. correct. we've seen the number of nurses, the number of doctors who have become ill by this who have died. we've seen police officers, we've seen emt, you know, the people who run towards something that the rest of us are sheltering away from. and you are a little worried that in the effort to salvage the economy, something that we

all share, every one of us including you, i think, would like to get the economy back going, you are worried -- and we've by the way, seen this in singapore -- you're worried about a second wave or a resurgence. >> right, i care about the economy, but to me of all of us who have studied macroeconomics or any economy for that matter, how can we have a sustainable economy that constantly grows within a country that doesn't have a health care system that's sustainable itself? like i spent two hours looking for a consult the other day at a hospital, this week even during the decompression phase when, you know, the er volumes are a little lower downstairs, and i was told that the doctor i was trying to reach had died from covid-19, and his name was left on the schedule. that's not sustainable. last week i had to resuscitate someone from the waiting room. they died in the waiting room, and what's next? a street corner. if people are coming out and exposing themselves again after the lock down's lifted before a vaccine's available, the surge is going to come back. i'm okay. i'm going to go back in and

clean up no matter what. that's what i signed up for, but in the bigger picture, how do we have an economy if it's going to be a wave, this constant where we lose more and more doctors, nurses, teches, who all are dying, how do we have a health care system that works when we're not protecting them, ask then have an economy built on a society that doesn't have a health care system that is sustainable. that's just difficult for me to fathom. >> well, we cannot let this time go by without every single one of us giving that very serious thought about fixing those things that are broken in our health care system, but as you heard in my last segment, i don't know if you heard it or not, but we were talking about the absence of leadership, and i think the one thing we can all agree on is that you people on the front line are our leaders, and we are grateful to you. new york city emergency room doctor, calvin sun. stay safe, calvin, and the same to your family. at the top of the next hour, minnesota attorney general keith ellison opens up about losing his mother to coronavirus and also responds to president trump's call for the liberation

of his state. that must see interview, plus senator elizabeth warren. that's all ahead. first we're going to get an update on italy, a coronavirus hot spot next on "velshi." d hybd clouds- things can get a bit cloudy for you. but now, there's the dell technologies cloud, powered by vmware. a single hub for a consistent operating experience across all your clouds. that should clear things up.

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because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there. italy as you know has been one of the hardest countries hit by coronavirus. at last count more than 22,000 people had lost their lives there after spending weeks in a nationwide lockdown. citizens are slowly returning to work as the government continues to ease restrictions. what's happening in italy could be a blue print for how we can do it here in the united states. matt bradley has been in rome since early march covering the pandemic. he joins us now and look, matt, i want to underscore, some of the problems italy had is because the beginning of their lockdown like americas was unwielding and a lot of people didn't take it seriously. >> reporter: yeah, i mean,

there's a lot of parallels here and one of the ones you mentioned italy could be a blue print for america, but i've talked to some politicians and some epidemiologists here and they're saying it shouldn't be a blue print. a lot of the same mistakes were already committed by the italians early on and they're continuing to be a problem. now, they don't really have a plan for phase two here in italy. they have a committee. they have a task force that's led by the former ceo and it's stocked with doctors and epidemiologists and politicians and business leaders but they have yut to come up with a plan for what they call the phase two, the reopening of the economy. and one of the problems is that a lot of the disagreements are revolving around the same problems, the same disagreements we're having in america and the same thing at the geographical and it''s business versus labor

unions, a lot of the same conversations happening in the u.s. >> is there some date at which italy thinks it gets back to normal? are they talking about dates or are they just seeing how it goes? >> reporter: yeah, may 3rd is the date it's supposed to be lifted. it's been extended by about three weeks and it could be extended even more but major business leaders are really pushing to bring their businesses especially the so called made in italy, the big iconic italian brands, they want them to get back to work immediately but it's not clear if that's going to happen or not. >> matt, thank you. thank you for your continued reporting. please stay safe. matt bradley live in rome for us. staying in italy with a story after amore, helena humphrey has this story. >> two households, both under lockdown where we lay our scene.

a pair of star crossed italians fall in love against all odds. except this isn't william sha s shakespeare's romeo and juliet. he first set eyes on her from his balcony. as they both listened to a performance by local musicians. for you, was it love at first sight? yes, love at first sight. >> we managed to track her down on instagram and struck up a conversation. the couple hasn't stopped talking since. >> he wrote me with message video chat, call me every day. every moment on the balcony. >> the declaration of love was even grander with mikaela draping a banner from his apartment. now they spend their days

dreaming about what they do when they finally meet. >> i kiss you for two hour. >> never mind the first date, they're not ruling anything out once this is over. >> if you get married can i come to your wedding? >> sure. >> with around 3 billion people around the world barely able to leave their homes right now, let alone go out on a date, balconies might become the new meeting spot. in these tough times there might be a little more love in the air. >> all right. we all need a story like that every now and then. thank you for that. it takes a lot of people to make television happen and bring you the news you need as america battles covid-19. you watch today as we had some technical difficulties and everybody just hustles to get it done so we want to thank some of the staff who are helping to make msnbc weekend programming great. here are some of our dedicated producers and technical teams as they shelter in and work from

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how are you today? >> good morning and welcome to a.m. joy. this week in america one of the many disturbing scenes we witnessed came from lansing, michigan during the so-called n operation grid lock protest where at least two confederate flags were m