hey there, i'm joshua johnson at nbc news world headquarters in new york. good to be with you after that phenomenal virtual concert. how connected we can be in times like these. look at coronavirus across america, explore the push for more testing, see how two of the biggest states are dealing with the crisis now, and dive into latest reporting where covid-19 came from. later in the hour,

representative maxine waters will join us, we'll speak to mayor london breed, dr. kavita patel and dr. nancy kass and covid-19 testing every day. testing remains a hurdle but seems we're doing our part to stop the spread, especially social distancing. >> what this graph illustrates is amazing work of the american people to really adhere to social distancing. this was nothing we had ever attempted to do as a nation and the world hadn't attempted to do. but they were able to decrease the number of cases so that in general most of the metro areas never had an issue of complete crisis care of all of their hospitals. >> washington is our first stop on the trip across america. two of msnbc's analysts, also

with us, nbc senior politics dieter. glad to have you all with us. philip, start with testing. public health officials are saying that testing needs to double or maybe triple before the u.s. can safely reopen. this week president trump announced guidelines for states to ease their stay-at-home orders. where do we stand with that right now? >> administration said today there are more than 4 million americans who have been tested. that's a tiny fraction of the population of course. testing has been a chronic problem in the united states for weeks now. administration has improved the speed and volume of the tests but not at pace that experts say is necessary to be able to safely reopen businesses and get rid of some of the social distancing guidelines. what we're hearing from governors in a lot of state, they don't have support from the federal government to expand their testing programs.

they are getting some of the fast abbott machines and other new testing machines but don't necessarily have all the equipment they need to operate them at full capacity or expertise from technicians and are pointing fingers at washington, saying this is a problem that needs a national organization to be provided. >> administration is saying don't need to test everybody to open the country but representative sample, that's the argument right? exactly. but public health experts are saying we're not at that level yet. many americans have been tested but we need more data and information about where the hot spots are and might emerge in the future to really determine which communities are safe to reopen. >> eli, talk about the federal government's role right now. president got lots of flak or saying in his words he had total

authority when the states would reopen. that is not true. but what is the u.s. government's role right now? >> to support the states. president has been intent last months coming out every night to do the briefings, trying to show he's the one managing the crisis but if you talk to people in the white house, at staff level people are managing the president, trying to get him off of reopening the economy date as he did when he suggested easter and had to come to him after he said i had absolute authority and have a plan and lay it out, can't impose will on all the states. but also tried after he put this plan forward to explain to him he has to stay engaged, not a time to say mission accomplished, now it's on to the states. one of the ways that the states are looking for support is

testing. trump today at briefing said it's just the democrats complaining, says senator king was nasty with call with mike pence because he was bringing up testing and frustrated with the response he was getting. president has said all the complaints are partisan, just coming from democrats. we know that's not true. republican governor in ohio who people in the administration credit with being ahead of the curve and taking strong measures in his state has been public stating we can do more tests in hospitals at ohio but need the fda to help facilitate getting more tests, testing reagent into those hospitals. can't do it alone. that's the thing that people in a lot of the states are worried about. >> before i put a political question to beth, philip, ask you about the stimulus 3.5 bill may or may not be coming.

small business loan approved has used up money, how is it coming with the next bill. there is going to be a next bill, right? >> we believe so but it's a question at this point what that bill exactly is and when it gets passed. congress is not in session at the moment and there's been growing tension between the president and democratic leaders in the house, namely speaker pelosi, president trump has been attacking her last several days, publicly. not the conversation you would hear on the brink of bipartisan accord. going to be some time before they could put together a bill. there's a need both parties for additional government help with the economy given how unstabilized it is right now. >> shift to politics. lot of speculation about joe biden's running mate, president

obama and elizabeth warren and bernie sanders have endorsed him. campaign endorsements, got to campaign online. >> had a great week, endorsement of obama, sanders and warren, the party has united behind joe biden in a way probably nobody thought possible a few weeks ago. this democratic contest would end so early but as you said, conundrum, sitting in basement in wilmington, delaware, can't campaign, older fellow anyway, fits criteria for being more at risk than a younger candidate, trying to make way on to platforms that people are watching, doing podcasts and town hall meetings, putting out ads online. as we all know, president trump takes up every bit of space,

oxygen, all day, every day. that may be the president's biggest problem right now, he is the symbol of this pandemic, and his response to it and his handling of it will perhaps probably be the major issue that determines who wins in november. so perhaps all joe biden needs to do is step back and let the president own the space, own the territory because it is fraught and turbulent and tragic ground for him at this point. but other democrats are concerned, feel that joe biden has just fallen off the face of the planet despite all the good political news last week or two, and people are waiting to see whether he can engage back into the conversation in way that's forceful and represent as leader of the party now. >> big open question, one of many, no lack of political questions to be answered from here. u.s. intelligence community is trying to answer a bigger

question. where did covid-19 come from? one hypothesis, chinese lab studying viruses might have let it out by mistake. report that intelligence agencies are investigating whether a worker caused the spread. worker in institute of virology denied that. >> as we said early on, there's no way this virus came from us. we have a strict regulatory regimen, a code of conduct for research. we are confident of that. "washington post" and several other outlets wrote about this, no evidence or knowledge, entirely based on speculation. >> ken delaney joins us, i can only imagine how hard this is

for the u.s. to investigate. >> and i've been humble about what they know. but sifting through the evidence whether this was accidental release from are the lab. no one is suggesting it's a bioweapon, none of our sources but saying it's possible it was released accidentally from biosafety level four laboratory, just about 50 of those in the world, work on the most dangerous pathogens, they were studying viruses, including the one that caused sars in 2002, somewhat related to covid-19. so u.s. intelligence community is looking at whether it was possible somebody was working in the lab, was infected, walked out and infected somebody else to cause the outbreak. it's a theory that virus emerged from the wuhan wet market that

we heard so much about. but evidence is inconclusive, not a smoking gun piece of intelligence to point the community in one direction or the other. but "washington post" has reported on diplomatic cables where the state department visited the lab couple years ago and raised concerns about lack of trained technicians and was article in 2017 when chinese scientists acknowledged they had work to do with safety levels and approach to keeping on top of things. for now, it's an open question, something the u.s. intelligence community is examining. >> before we let you go, cyr coronavirus has become an election issue, trying to aim for weak spots because of the

coronavirus. what might they be? >> fertile ground talking about the president and his response to the virus early on, when he was praising the country for doing a great job and his great relationship with president xi of that country. there's plenty of evidence on tape last several weeks of the president praising that country that democrats can use if they want to pile on the attacks against president trump and his handling of this virus. now we have seen as you said joshua, republicans trying to make hay with joe biden, talking about many relationships he has with chinese leaders, trips he took, he was a point person to china as vice president under president obama. they're hoping to portray him as too favorable to china. there is of course the whole discussion of china allows them to bring up issue of hunter biden, joe biden's son, front

and center in the discussion around ukraine and the president's impeachment just a few months ago. hunter biden went to china with the vice president, making business relationships there. they think they can perhaps make some hay out of that story line against vice president biden. we shall see, it's hard to see how anything in common with what the president of the united states is going through right now in this pandemic but certainly something republicans will try to do. >> nbc's beth phewy and ken dlooinen, and eli and thanks for making time. our trip across america heads to california, one of many places where coronavirus is disproportionately affecting african-americans. congresswoman maxine waters

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our trip across america takes us, now, to california. the state had nearly 30,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus, more than a thousand californians are known to have died of covid-19. joining us now is democratic congresswoman maxine waters of california. she is the chair of the financial services committee. congresswoman, good evening. >> good evening. thank you. >> how are your constituents doing right now? >> well, we're all, you know, trying very hard to do everything that the experts are telling us to do in social distancing. people are wearing their masks. the churches are not holding services. we are trying to do everything possible to be safe. but i want you to know today was the highest-single day of fatalities. 81 people recorded dead in los angeles county, today. and so you mentioned our numbers. well, we're up. we're 30,718 cases.

we have 1,147 deaths altogether. so we are doing everything that we can. and, to tell you the truth, it is absolutely confusing and not helpful to have the president of the united states sending dual messages. talking past the experts. and giving out information that he is not qualified to give out. and, then, supporting right-wing segregationists and activists who are out basically organizing in states around the country with his support. telling them to challenge these cities and these cities and get back to work and open up the businesses and all. it is unfortunate that the president of the united states is not a good leader. and he's not helping out with this pandemic at all. as a matter of fact, i think he's harmful and dangerous. >> i did want to ask you about

the impact of the federal government on this relief effort to fight the virus. now, we know president trump is pushing to reopen the country asap. he's rolled against the press for, in his view, being unduly critical. but the government has thousands of people working like crazy to keep us safe. kind of career civil servants. i don't think i need to ask what you think of the president's rhetoric. it's pretty clear. but i'd like to know your sense of the overall federal response. especially as it affects southern california and especially with those frontline workers, who are just trying to save lives. >> well, you know, i think that it is known, by practically everyone in this country, that our president did not heed the advice of experts early on. he dismissed the pandemic as a hoax. and so we didn't get started. now, when you add that to the fact that he defunded the pandemic office that had been

set up by obama in order to plan, to anticipate, to be prepared. and following that, he has created a lot of trauma in this country. by causing the states to have to compete with each other for ppe, that is the materials that's needed in the hospitals and on the front lines. he has often commandeered equipment that was targeted for different states and different areas, in order to put them into the federal pile stock. and, in doing this, what he's done is he's been able to basically give out to those areas in those states, those cities, what he wants them to have. and it looks as if it's campaign related. and so, i mean, he is absolutely at the forefront of this dismantling, you know, all the rules of the game. what we should be doing. as a matter of fact, he said, in no uncertain terms just a day or

so ago, that he has all the authority. he can tell the states what to do. and then, of course, he was pulled back a bit by some of his advisers and some of his staff. but he is absolutely a catastrophe in dealing with this -- this issue. so we still have hospitals here who need materials. we, still, have a lot of testing that needs to be done. in my district, we just got test sites opened up a week ago. and, in the african-american community, in the minority communities, we are dying at a higher rate. we are getting infected at a higher rate. not only in los angeles county but, all over the united states of america. >> yeah. >> well, just to tell you the truth, more than 30% of those who have died in los angeles county are residents of long-term, skilled nursing facilities. so the old people are not being taken care of properly. they are being infected. they don't have the testing.

they don't have the equipment. the same thing in the black community. we don't have the testing. the president does not want the testing. he does not want the numbers to show because he is trying to open up these businesses. and without having those numbers reflected. yes. >> i want to ask you about that, congresswoman. about coronavirus and people of color because i'm starting -- i don't know about you -- but i'm starting to question the use of the word disproportionately to describe the impact on black and brown people. reason being, you and i both know just about every health concern affects us more than it affects whites, historically. in that regard, it seems like this is precisely proportionate. so is there anything to be done about this disparity with coronavirus? or do you think it kind of runs too deep? >> yes. well, first of all, we need -- we need the data. we need the information. and i have written, asking for that information, to show exactly where the resources have gone. where there is a need, how many have died, how many have been

infected. we need information but the information that we have, the limited information that we have, we are showing that blacks are disproportionately impacted by this virus. and we are showing that the death rate is absolute higher with the limited information that we have. >> democratic congresswoman maxine waters of california. congresswoman, stay safe and thanks for talking to us. >> well, thank you so very much. >> we'll continue in california in just a moment. san francisco was quick to implement rules on social distancing. it was a critical precaution in one of america's most densely-packed cities. we'll spend some time with san francisco mayor london breed just ahead. stay close. a department. it's a voice on the other end of the phone. a note to say you're on our mind. a willingness to come to you. the world and how we interact with each other is changing. but that will never change who we are at lexus.

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and until this fight is over, we...will...never...quit. because they never quit. depending on where you drive along california's coast line, things are beginning to open, or continuing to close. this week, there was good news in santa cruz. the county reopened its parks and beaches.

surfing is, also, allowed again. further north on highway 1, san francisco has new restrictions in place. starting today, residents must wear face masks in public. nbc's alexa leoto joins us now from san francisco. hey, alexa, governor gavin newsom gave an update on the latest efforts. what is the latest on california reopening? >> hey, josh, well you just mentioned those two sort of opposing examples there. santa cruz relaxing some restrictions. san francisco imposing a new one, enacted last night. and that seems to be really the tailored approach that california is taking on here, as it comes to how it thinks about reopening the state. i have heard an analogy that it's slowly opening the valves. testing the waters and figuring out which pockets of the state are able -- are -- are responding well to that. but, more broadly, we're looking at the framework that governor newsom announced earlier this week. those six indicators that are key to -- key to accomplish an order for california to move

forward. everything from testing capacity to, also, contact tracing. and just here, in the bay area, the efforts to improve contact tracing have been really invested in. specifically, in partnership with ucsf. they are building volunteers, they're training librarians. and i spoke with the lead doctor the ucsf to talk about how important contact tracing is when it comes to reopen the state. his name is dr. mike reid. take a listen to what he had to say. >> contact tracing is -- is essentially one of the key things that has to happen before we move beyond shelter in place. not the only thing. but it's one of those public health interventions that we need to be able to deploy and deploy at scale if we're going to have a robust and sustainable impact in terms of controlling the epidemic as we, and when we, return to some semblance of normality. >> and that sense of normality that he is talking about. the governor hasn't, yet, imposed a strict timeline for

that. so we're just waiting and seeing here. learning more about the initiatives to prepare california as it ultimately, one day, might reopen. joshua. >> thank you, alexa. that's nbc's alexa leoto in one of the most gorgeous places with one of the most gorgeous sunsets over the golden gate that i have ever seen. alexa, thanks for making time. >> joining us now is london breed, the mayor of the beautiful city of san francisco. mayor breed, good evening. >> thank you. good evening. >> san francisco was one of the first cities to set a shelter-in-place order last month. why set the face mask restrictions now? was there a last straw? >> i think that, when we talk about reopening and we talk about the numbers that we're seeing in san francisco, we also have to get prepared for reopening. and part of doing that, contact tracing, more testing, and also getting people used to wearing face coverings in order to keep their distance. but, more importantly, to ensure that we are keeping people safe.

we're reducing the number of infections. this is playing an important role in helping us through this process. the fact is we do still experience some challenges with people who are standing in line and may not, necessarily, be social distancing. or in our shelter systems, in our congregate living settings, in our grocery stores, we need to get people -- and even in our buses -- we need to get people used to protecting themselves which, also, protects the other people around them, especially as we look at what's coming in the future when we start to reopen our city. >> i used to live in san francisco. and when i arrived, one of the first things i noticed is how compact it is and very densely populated. it's like seven miles by seven miles, and you have very different kinds of neighborhoods that sit right next to one another. you have western edition, historically black. next to japantown. and you come south next to at&t park. hunter's point, historically

black. i am guessing that compression of people and that tremendous diversity puts a lot of pressure on the city to contain the virus really fast. >> well, it definitely does because, again, when we talk about our congregate living settings, it's not just our shelters. there are these single-room occupancy hotels where people live in the tenderloin and they share bathrooms. they share kitchens. and so those kinds of living settings and people who are very close to one another, and sharing close spaces. so it definitely puts a lot of strain on our city. and, immediately, with our -- with our senior living facilities. so, immediately, when we knew that something like this could impact our city, we did a lot of extensive outreach with our nonprofit organizations, to the people that serve various populations that, traditionally, may not receive information in a timely manner. to start to educate the public about the coronavirus, the myths, what it could do. and -- and some of the things that we need to do to protect ourselves. >> how do you plan to deal with coronavirus among the homeless?

there is a push to secure 7,000 hotel rooms by next sunday, to get people off the streets. add to that, the homeless population is plagued by living in filthy tents along sidewalks. some manifestly mentally ill, some harassing passersby, as a former resident, i can personally attest to that. that's got to make it tougher to deal with the virus in general. >> definitely tougher because, the fact is, people who have struggled in our homeless population those in particular with mental illness and substance use disorder, it's not going to go away just because there is a pandemic. those issues still are very challenging. and in the age of social distancing, dealing with the logistics of what we have to do now, in order to keep safe, has been really, very challenging. we have, however, been able to move almost a thousand people, homeless people, into hotel rooms. and it is -- it has really been incredible that so many of our city employees, who are disaster service workers, who are working

in libraries, working for our rec and park departments. working in entities without -- throughout the city, where they don't necessarily work with the homeless population. but they are being trained to work in our hotels, to increase our capacity so that we can help more people and allow more people to stay in these hotels. it has been incredible to see it. and it has been very challenging, still, because those issues don't go away. but we are continuing our efforts to get as many hotel rooms as we can. building the capacity, with our staffing and the logistics in the age of social distancing continues to be a real challenge for us. >> another night, i'd love to talk to you more about the homeless population in san francisco because as much as people say they want to do something about it, when you ask, well, where do you want to put these people? where do we buy land and spend the money? not in my backyard comes up a great deal. a conversation for another night. >> yes, definitely.

>> san francisco mayor london breed, do stay safe. please, take care of my favorite city. and thank you for talking to us. >> thank you and come back to visit us soon. >> as soon as this is over. as soon as -- >> as soon as it's over. >> as soon as this is over. thank you, mayor. >> thank you. >> coming up, where do we stand on testing? are parts of the country really ready to reopen? we'll get to those questions, next. with rheumatoid arthritis. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr, a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; don't start xeljanz if you have an infection. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, and changes in lab results. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common,

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so we have talked a lot about some of the problems we are facing with this fight against coronavirus. let's talk about solutions, especially to improving the nation's testing capacity. america now has more than 725,000 coronavirus cases. more than 38,000 people have died. this week, the federal government unveiled guidelines to reopen the country. and testing is a key factor in that plan. a number of doctors say they just don't have the resources they need to ramp up. in a survey of more than 2,600 family physicians across the country, a third said they could not test for covid-19. joining us now, nbc news medical contributor, dr. patel. she is the former health policy

director for the obama administration. and nancy kass from the john hopkins burman institute of ethics. that survey, does it surprise you at all? does that match what you're hearing from your colleagues? >> oh, absolutely, joshua. and i'm a primary care physician myself, and the truth is that, not only could i not do the test but, even if i ordered the test, it would take days to come back. so this is not just a real problem, but if you think about trying to recover or people talk about trying to go back to work or schools, et cetera, where are we going do this? and -- and it's something that i think we're going to have to struggle with as this country. >> i think also, dr. patel, i'm just now getting a sense of how deep this gap runs. i have a very good friend who works at penn medical in philadelphia and he has covid-19. he works in healthcare. but he had to stay at home, sick, for like days before they could finally scare up a test for him and confirm that he was

positive. so i'm not sure we fully have a clear picture on just how deep this gap runs. >> yeah. not only do we not have a clear picture, but, remember, this is a novel virus. so we don't exactly know -- right now, if i were to get coronavirus, like your friend did, i would have to have a time period where i had no symptoms. and, in order to come back to work, i would have to have two subsequent tests that are negative. and you talk about testing, joshua. not all tests are equal. so we know that -- we have been talking about tests like they're interchangeable. but, for example, even the test that your friend will probably get might be a little different than the test we have in california. and the performance of those tests is incredibly important. to the point you made about having confidence about coming back to work. >> well, and, dr. cass, that's one factor that affects the data on how ready we really are.

lack of testing in some places also skews the data on how ready we really are. how do we deal with all that? >> well, it's a big challenge, joshua, you're absolutely right. part of the challenge, obviously, is that people who feel sick can't be tested. but another enormous challenge is that we actually have no idea how much the virus already has affected people. we know that so many people who get this are unaware that they are getting it or they think it's something mild, they're getting a cold. there are starting to be a few spot prevalence studies as they're called. widespread testing, for example, of pregnant women of all the women who deliver in the hospital. those are starting to show that anywhere from 13% to 30% of people have had coronavirus. the more we start to understand where this is in the country, what the spread, what the prevalence is, the more we can start to understand it and the more we can start to get a handle on it. >> dr. patel, let me get your reaction to a quick clip from

yesterday's coronavirus task force briefing about testing. listen. >> testing is a part, an important part, of a multifaceted way that we are going to control and, ultimately, end this outbreak. the emphasis that we've been hearing is essentially testing is everything and it isn't. it's the kinds of things that we have been doing. the mitigation strategies. >> we have, and will continue to have, enough tests to safely go into phase one. it is beyond the possibility to test everyone in this country, every day. it's just not possible. >> dr. patel, what do you make of that? >> couple of points, joshua. right now we're doing about 160,000 tests a day. you already pointed out we're not doing enough. and, yes, it is true. we're not going to be able to physically test every single person every day. but i would argue we're not even testing people that actually

have the virus. meaning we have people who have symptoms who are telling, you know what, if you are not a certain age or your symptoms aren't that bad, we're not going to test you. so that's point number one. to dr. fauci's point, he's absolutely right. if all we take away from this is that we need a test and that's all that we will take -- you know, need, of course, that's not true. testing is a part of that. but i got to tell you, we've had so many setbacks and we know that we've already had a failure, at the federal level. it's really hard to move on when we know that we should be getting tests and we just aren't. >> dr. kavita patel and dr. nancy kass, glad to have you both with us tonight. thanks very much. before we go, ingenuity meets generosity. a lab in indianapolis created its own covid-19 tests. now, it's giving 50,000 kits to

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order today. ♪ ♪ so as we've mentioned, there remains lots of questions and concerns about the lack of testing across america. nbc affiliate kprc in houston found that just a half percent of texans had been tested. not half of texans, a half percent. that's lower than the national average, and it comes out to about 146,000 people out of a state of 29.5 million.

texans. governor greg abbott is outlining plans to reopen the state and stem some very deep job losses. nbc's priscilla thompson is in southeast houston with more. >> reporter: joshua, this parking lot might normally be filled with customers who are headed across the street to nrg stadium to watch a football game. but, instead, thousands of families have come here today to get food from the houston food bank who is hosting a food drive. now, this site actually opened two hours early because a line had already started forming. and i spoke to one man who came through, and he says that he has become unemployed, his wife is now unemployed, and they have five kids and three grandchildren at home. and so this is his first time having to utilize a service like the food bank. but he says it's been so important to his family because he doesn't know how he would be making it without resources like this. now, the texas governor, governor abbott, has talked about reopening the economy here

in texas. and some people i spoke to today expressed some fear and concern about what that could look like. but one thing is clear. local officials, elected officials, here have said that there has got to be more testing in order for that to happen. and that the government must do many more to help people. in regards to food instability and making sure that they have what they need to be successful once this economy reopens. joshua? >> that's nbc's priscilla thompson in houston. now, this pandemic has shown us some incredible generosity, bravery, and ingenuity. a small lab based in indiana developed its own test in just three weeks. now it's donating 50,000 kits to new york city. joining us now is one of the men behind that lab, zak khan is a partner at aria diagnostics just outside indianapolis. zak, welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> your lab was originally just processing tests but started to actually manufacture them yourselves. what made you decide to make

your own test, especially given how hard we've all heard it is to just find the components you need? >> i think you hit the nail on the head. you're right, it was difficult to find the components to make the kit put together. we started initially ordering the full kit, and then after a few days realized it was getting difficult to get the full kits. so we said, okay, let's order swabs. it might help for me to describe a bit of the anatomy of the test kit. it's very simple. there's a swab. there's a vial with either viral transport media or saline and then a bag. so when you start deducing down, what we can get and what we can't get, we quickly found that one day vtm was impossible to find or the vials were impossible to find, and then more so the swabs became impossible to find. so we were like, we need to put something together to serve our community. so we better start thinking about the raw products and how can we put it together in an fda-approved scenario to do this right?

>> does that mean that you had to like get the cotton yourself and make your own swabs? >> not quite. we found swab manufacturers, but they were not sterile, or they weren't scored. so the swab might be, you know, six, seven, eight inches long. but at four inches, you need to score that so that it breaks easily to fit into the tube to transport to the lab. so we were by hand scoring hundreds and hundreds of thousands of swabs in order to process them. we needed to sterilize those and put them into the kit. >> the tests that you donated on their way to new york, how did that come about? >> honestly, i was working out and i heard early in the morning before going into the lab, i heard the governor of new york talk about how he wanted to partner with private enterprise. then i heard the same time mayor de blasio talking about the same thing the same day. and candidly our hearts just broke for them. i went into the lab and i spoke to my partner. he said, we've got to do something. the city is in dire straits, and we need to do something to help them.

it just happens to be within two or three days of us coming up our own kit manufacturing process, and we thought maybe this is god telling us this is what we need to do. we've come up with this process. we need to start donating to them as well immediately. >> how is indiana dealing with the virus? nbc's affiliate in indianapolis, wthr, found that the state also needed testing swabs. did they reach out to your lab about testing issues? i mean what's your sense of how they're doing? >> they did. dr. box gave me a call a little over a week ago, and we chatted about the need for swabs. we donated 2,000 swabs to them. i had a nice conversation with her this morning about some other things we're working on as far as expanding testing, utilizing some new technology out there. indiana is doing as well as can be expected given the circumstances that we find ourselves, but i believe that where we are right now, we're doing a lot more testing than probably most of the municipalities, most other states. in fact we're surveilling law

enforcement first responders on a weekly basis where they're all getting tested every week here in carmel, indiana, as well as zionsville, fisher, many of the suburbs to the north of indianapolis, which is different from everywhere else. >> what is your sense of the testing gap in this country? you know, the administration says we need a representative sample to be able to know when to reopen the country. people -- everyday people who don't work in testing say, that's very nice for you and your studies. i just want to know if i have it or not or if i had it or not. how do you see it? >> i candidly disagree respectfully, sir, because if we look at those countries that were successful in getting beyond the covid virus not unscathed but relatively unscathed, countries like iceland, countries like south korea, iceland is on a mission to test all of their population. granted it's only 300,000. they're on a mission to test them all. the reason that i feel this way is because what they found was pretty confounding. half of their positives were

asymptomatic, meaning half of the people -- of all the people we find symptomatic and positive, there's an equal number of those people walking around that are still shedding the virus and are contagious. if you test everybody or as many people as you can that are out in the workforce, retail people, gas station clerks, grocery store clerks, if we test them, we will find out who has it. we can quarantine them appropriately, which is what we're doing here in indiana. then you can start curbing this virus down and flattening that curve. i know everyone has heard about so many times last few weeks, but that way you can be very successful in doing that. only because we're taking a page out of a playbook from another place who has done it already. so why reinvent the wheel when someone has already done it, you know, successfully? >> zak khan with aria diagnostics in carmel, indiana, zak, as a new new yorker, thank you for helping us deal with our testing gap and thanks for making time for us tonight. >> it's our pleasure. >> and that is our look at

coronavirus across america. it's been a pleasure having you with us on msnbc. thank you for making the time. i will see you back here tomorrow at 3:00 p.m., noon pacific. but until we meet again, i'm joshua johnson. stay safe and stay sharp. we'll get through this. good night. i just love hitting the open road and telling people that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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