prosecutor said that you're the hero in this. do you feel that? >> no, not at all. i felt like, you know what? that was the right thing to do. being a hero? no. they're the hero. the one out there every day. not me. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thanks for watching. first up, on msnbc, signs of hope in the hardest-hit city in america. but not without warnings. new details on the long path to reopening states in the northeast. fact-check. the president's latest coronavirus briefing raises new questions on a number of critical issues. we'll try to set the record straight. new alarm. the surprising numbers behind a study that looked at how many might actually have had coronavirus.

can they be believed? restartliing america. how the jersey shore remains quiet and idle, as some southern beaches open. it is almost beach season. it's sunday, april 19th. i'm kendis gibson. >> i'm lindsey reiser. good to be with you. >> april 19th. the 25th anniversary of the oklahoma city bombing. amazing how this has passed. this is what the country is dealing with 25 years later. the country reaching nearly three-quarters of 1 million covid cases. in less than two months, 38,000 people have lost their lives to the virus. >> on capitol hill, lawmakers are optimistic they will strike a deal on a fourth coronavirus reli relief pack badge. this comes after the paycheck protection program ran out of funds. this is what house speaker nancy

pelosi had to say on nbabs. >> our c.a.r.e.s. one package was something we worked together in a bipartisan way, and springing from that and making it more effective and stronger so more people are benefiting from it and protected by it. i think we are close to agreement. >> more protests expected in cities across the country. rallying against all those stay-at-home orders. local leaders, however, not backing down. governor's governor among them, gavin newsom, telling "the l.a. times" he won't be swayed by the protests, saying he will be judged by science, not protests. some states are gradually easing restrictions. north carolina is latest to open beaches, including one in surf city. the beach patrol will be on-hand to make sure everybody is social distancing. that stay-at-home order remains in effect.

starting tomorrow, all walmart and sam's clubs throes will be required to wear face masks. the policy switch is in response to the cdc guidelines. shoppers are encouraged to wear some sort of face protection. in new york, the epicenter of the outbreak, a bit of good news along with the bad. the numbers, still climbing. almost 237,000 cases and 17,000 deaths. >> the state saw the lowest daily number of deaths in more than a week. while the people in hospitals is going down, the governor says an average 2,000 sick people are headed into the hospitals here in the state every day. >> it's an astronomical number. cori coffin joins us from outside of new york presbyterian hospital. i guess hospitals are getting a little bit of a break right now. >> reporter: right. if you can call it that. good morning to both of you.

it's an easing off of the gas pedal. before, we were full-throttle, completely overfilled. new york hospitals now getting a little bit of a relief, even though our foot is still on the gas pedal. admissions still above average. with the numbers going down, it's very encouraging. it's very precarious, as the governor mentioned yesterday. he talked about the infection rate. at its peak, about 1.9 was the infection rate. one person would infect about 1.9 people. that's an average over thousands, if not millions of people in the state of new york. that number is down to 0.9. if it gets to 1.2, we'll see the numbers rise again. it's extremely precarious, why all of the precautions have to remain in place. a big concern is also congregate areas, such as jails and nursing homes. the governor mentioning that was his number one concern, is nursing homes and the massive spike they have seen, as well as

criticism for possibly underreported cases there. kathy park has more on that. >> there's such a lack of transparency right now that many families are flying blind. they don't know if there's covid in the middle. they don't know the state of what's happening with their loved ones. >> reporter: the virus is stretching into prisons and detention centers like this one in virginia, now a new hot spot with two dozen young people testing positive. but in emergency rooms, hopeful signs, after so much despair during the peak of the crisis. >> i have to say, the hospital is still full and still running at max capacity. but the emergency department is definitely a little less congested. let's hope it stays this way. >> reporter: it's not just painful cries we hear in the hallways, but cheers of joy. staff celebratie ining elber as

left this hospital as the 500th survivor. and a team of nurses from the cleveland clinic received a round of applause, as they joined new york pez presbyterian to keep the fight going. >> reporter: as we've been reporting around the city the last several weeks, we've seen that, where workers are coming in where from all around the country. hotels are housing them, so they can get to work in hospitals like the one behind me. the need is very great here, guys. >> the need is great. but it's good to see, it's easing up slightly, at many of the hospitals. cori coffin for us here in new york city. thank you. now, to new jersey, where popular beach towns are looking more like ghost towns in the wake of the pandemic. lawmakers say this could be the new normal until july. >> nbc's mara barrett is joining

us from new jersey. it's not a beach day in the 50s. many of the vendors would be getting ready for the late spring and early summer crowds. >> reporter: good morning, guys. easter weekend is actually the traditional opening along the jersey coast. that was last weekend. but businesses here are still closed. casinos, like the hard rock, are shuttered. and the pier on the other side, is not open for business. they would be normally getting ready if the summer season. the mayor is telling me that anybody with seasonal homes or coming down to get gambling away, to stay away. they don't have the capacity at the medical fas is to treat everybody. the nearby convention center is being used as a field hospital. it has about 250 beds. as we're talking about neighboring new york, possibly plateauing, new jersey is sieeig

an uptick in cases. but the peak is later than expected. it will probably come late this upcoming week. in the meantime, the businesses are really hoping that the u june-july soft reopening that the governor is talk about is more likely. otherwise, they don't know what will happen to their business. i was talking to anthony. he owns the steel city pier with his brothers. they have been here for 30 years. they leased from donald trump in the '90s. and last season was the best yet. they were looking ahead to this season. now, obviously, things aren't looking so good. listen to what he told me. >> no news of what's in store for us once we reopen. we don't know if people will come out, suffering from cabin fever and oisolation or if they're going to come out cautiously. some businesses will not survive this. some businesses will not survive this and they can't survive it.

>> reporter: like a lot of businesses i've spoken to, there's a ton of uncertainty, but they're planning to reopen and taking the precautions, keeping people on separate rides and masks and gloves. there's a glimmer of hope, new jersey, new york and connecticut, opening marinas so people can take their boats on the water when we see days ahead. guys? >> that doesn't go for rentals. an eerie seen behind you, with a beautiful sunrise and nobody is out walking, enjoying that pier. maura barrett, live in atlantic city, new jersey. now, to washington and the latest word from the covid-19 task force. monica alba from the white house for us. we did hear from the health officials last night. in the briefing, they weren't supposed to have a briefing. it was added to the schedule last-minute. what did they have to say? >> that's right. it was a late addition to the schedule. it seemed to been opportunity

for the president to continue to air his grievances and defend his administration's handling of the coronavirus pandemic so far on all issues ranging from testing to supplies. the president continued to say they were on top of it, despite widespread criticism from both parties and the heads of different states who are saying they need more support, more federal guidance on how to proceed, as we look to go to phase one and open some states and some areas that will be doing that as soon as monday or friday, in a couple of the states that have the lowest number of cases. an interesting point. when the president first came out, some of the first things he said was he believes that the united states might be past its peak in terms of cases and we might be looking to, in his words, close this out. now, that's not exactly the same messaging that's echoed by his health officials who say, there are encouraging signs and reasons to be hopeful and optimistic. but it's the flattening of the

curve that needs to continue in the hot spots. and that's because of social distancing. and it's a sign that it's working. listen to what dr. deborah birx had to say about how important that is in the coming days. >> what this graph illustrates is the amazing work of the american people, to adhere to social distancing. this is nothing we have attempted to do as a nation and the world hadn't attempted to do. but they were able to decrease the number of cases so in general, most of the metro areas never had an issue of complete crisis care of all of their hospitals. >> the 30-day guidelines are set to expire at the end of this month. you have certain states looking to reopen their economy ahead of that. we're seeing indications that in places like montana, ohio, south dakota, they're going to be hoping to open certain kinds of businesses in the coming days.

and the president is walk a fine line because, while he wants to encourage and try to appease some of that economic anxiety from his supporters, he's also making sure that things don't happen too soon, too quickly. we see in the hardest-hit states like new york, new jersey, california, they've already extended the stay-at-home orders well past may 1st. maybe even going into june in some of the places. there will be a clash between the president advising the e ii trying to give the states the green light to open and saying we're not going to do that yet. >> this rate, californians and new yorkers, are looking forward to a labor day opening. monica alba joining us at the white house. thank you. new today, a stern warning from the world health organization this morning. even if you have covid-19 antibodies you may not be immune from contracting the virus again. >> right now, we have no evidence that the use of a

serologic test can show that an individual is immune. it will measure the level of antibodies. it's a response that the body has, a week of or two later after they've been infected with the virus. and the antibody tests can measure that level f antibodies. but that does not mean that somebody with antibodies means they're immune. >> joining us, an infectious disease specialist. there's been an emphasis to get the antibody tests out to everybody to reopen the economy. does this mean, there's varying levels of antibodies. if you have more, you're less likely to contract it again. what does this new information mean? >> as was mentioned by the w.h.o. and other guidelines, we

don't know what antibody testing means. we have to be careful in how the serology is used. and we have to be careful in how it's used in terms of monitoring the disease. >> doctor, how does that information compare to other viruses, like the regular flu or sars? how are those people with the antibodies? >> with viruses, it's more challenging. i give the example to some of my medical students or residents, certain bacterial infections, hepatitis-a, if you have anti-bodies, you have lifelong immunity. with viruses, it's harder to determine what having an antibody means. just having an antibody does not reflect an immune response. >> we know they show someone who

has been in the virus. in the bay area, they found that between 48 and 81,000 people could have been infected, higher than official numbers. so, does that mean that there could be an even larger part of the population that has covid-19 and didn't know? >> certainly, there's a lot of information that we've had asymptomatic transmission. people who didn't know they had the infection, with the typical symptoms, such as fever, cough, or shortness of breath, may have had the infection and may have had to spread the infection. i think it's fla ee's plausible was a larger number of people that had the infection and spread it than we may have thought, based on things we saw in the clinics or hospitals. >> okay. we have that. so many people are asymptomatic and spreading the virus. there's also this that is troubling to me. the numbers out of south korea,

at least 160 people who tested positive once, then tested negative, have the virus again. what are we to make of what's happening over there? >> again, i think it shows that we have limited information in terms of the transmission and virology in this case. and we don't know whether people that have virus that's present on testing is a viable virus. we are seeing patients who, when they get tested by the swab testing may have a positive test, even more than two weeks aft after, up to three weeks after, but we don't know what that means. >> thank you so much. >> thanks, doctor. europe, though, is reopening, to a new normal. how loosening restrictions are slowly bringing europe's economy back to life. and what the u.s. can learn from its approach. plus, returning to the front

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welcome back, everybody. all of you getting an early start on your sunday. a live look at the pord walk in atlantic city, new jersey. just saw maura barrett there as the sunrise was a few minutes ago. the temperatures will get into the upper 50s. >> the cabs are there but nobody there to take them. jersey shore, anybody? okay. obviously, because of the stay-at-home order, atlantic city is suffering a huge financial blow. state officials say this could be a new normal until july, actually. >> let's go to europe, now. they're starting to reopen and maybe a glimpse of what could lie ahead for the u.s. matt apuzzo for "the new york times" in brussels. >> matt, where do things stand in brussels right now?

i was looking at the quietly, be most deaths per captain than any other country in the world. >> yeah. part of what you're seeing -- a big part of what you're seeing here, is belgium made a decision early on they were going to count the nursing home dead, even in the absence of a coronavirus test. if you're an elderly person in a nursing home, where we know there's a coronavirus infection, and you die of sudden acute respiratory disease. in many countries, you die of respiratory disease. and from the beginning, belgium said they would count those as covid cases. you essentially have a double count. you have, right now, we see about 52% of covid deaths are

coming out of nursing homes. the question is, what would it look like if other countries counted the same way? what you see is a slight loosening of the restrictions we've been under for about a month. the schools will remain closed and nonessential stores will remain closed until early next month. but they've allowed home improvement stores to reopen. just the weekend, lines were around the block for all the home improvement stores. it is a slight tip-toe across normal. in italy, some shops reopened tuesday. spain is allowing workers to return to factories and construction sites. they have a death toll more than 20,000. austria, allowing home improvement stores to reopen, just like belgium. and germany, some schools and stores will be opening on may 4th. it doesn't sound like there's a ton of coordination between

these nations, much like the united states. what are the concerns. >> the e.u. is not the united states of europe. and so, the countries have unique challenges and they're tackling them in unique ways. if you're an american, all eyes on germany. this is a company that did testing better than any other country in the western world. they are talking about reopening schools and shops. they are rolling out antibody testing. they have a plan to do contract testing. if we don't see a big second wave in germany, the hope is, if the united states can ramp up its testing, to a meaningful level, per capita, then the united states can reopen in much the same way. we've seen that in south korea. we've not seen that in spain yet. germany is the best test case right now.

>> i'm curious on your take on this. i haven't seen protests in europe or asia, to all these stay- stay-at-home demands. are there people protesting as well over there? >> you haven't seen the kind of large-scale protests i read about being organized in the united states here. i do think there's a big part of europe that largely has a cultural trust of their government. they pay higher taxes and the government will get things done. there's a greater skepticism in the united states. this is a strong capitalist country. and right now, they are looking

to the government and seeing some rumblings of criticism. but you don't see the large-scale protests that are being organized largely from the right. >> not sure what that says about our country or the others. matt apuzzo, in brussels and belgium, thank you. >> let's go to the u.s. and the front lines. we want to show you the latest map of clusters here. michigan is fifth on the list. they have 31,000 cases and 2,300 deaths. >> the call for extra help at hospitals led this doctor to postpone his retirement and volunteer to treat patients, even though he felt it could have been the last thing that he did on earth. dr. stanley berry is joining us from michigan. thank you so much for joining us and for your work and stepping in there. you haven't been summoned to duty yet. why did you think this would be

a risky proposition? and why volunteer in the first place? >> as i stated before, and i do want to make clear that i have not been called. i did volunteer. apparently, i volunteered to be are purposed. my background is high-risk obstetrics. i go into the hospital twice a week to help in the clinics there. work with the heroic residents. what drove me to volunteer was the fact that our city was getting absolutely clobbered, the city of detroit. and detroit has been good to me as a city. madison has been good to me. i'm at a time in my life where i felt i could make that sacrifice and go back. i'm ready if called upon. >> in detroit, 7,500 cases 600

deaths. overwhelmingly, the african-american population there is suffering. what needs to be done for this community? >> well, it goes back to the proposition that we're feeling the effects of decades of racism in the city of detroit. and i say that because of the massive health inequality between the african-americans suffer, compared to the rest of the population. and it goes back for years. people in detroit have a disease burden that's probably the worst in the united states, in terms of heart disease, diabetes, lung conditions. and you add that to a virulent virus that is cutting a path through the united states, in general the world. and comes to detroit to visit

itself among a population that's already unhealthy. it's not hard to predict what the continusequences were going be. >> and you said that your city is being alcoholic beveraclobbe. but some groups are staging protests to get the state reopened. you saw many of the scenes in lansing. one of the president's advisers, steven moore, compared the protesters to modern day rosa parks. you see all of the images. what do you make of it? >> it's so disheartening. of course people want to go back to work. of course, people want to get back and have life return to normal. if we jump the gun and not pay attention to the epidemiologists and the disease specialists in terms of going back to work, this disaster is going to explo

explode. one of the things that rankles me is we look back to 2009, to the h1n1, if you study it, it's probably a textbook example on how to handle an epidemic and pandemic. the testing was ready to go. and in 16 days, it was sent out, the test, once the virus was identified. this first attempt at sending out tests was unfortunate because the tests didn't work very well. as you heard from other guests, we're still behind the ball, in terms of getting universal testing. >> yeah. we're behind the ball of getting universal testing. even dr. fauci, on the task

force, has admitted as much. dr. stanley berry. we appreciate you stepping up there. tracing the origins of an outbreak. >> the new study that shows human coronavirus infections may have started as early as september. one of the scientists on the case joins us next. ♪ more than ever, your home is your sanctuary. that's why lincoln offers you the ability to purchase a new vehicle remotely with participating dealers. an effortless transaction- all without leaving the comfort- and safety of your home. that's the power of sanctuary. and for a little extra help, receive 0% apr financing and defer your first payment up to 120 days on the purchase of a new lincoln. given the current situation we are all affected by what is going on in america today. i was asking myself like what could i do?

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i just came off of a 16-hour shift. i'm going to go to sleep in the on call room and get up at 6:15 in the morning, when i get up for prerounds. and seeing the people sends masks and ppe, and people sending letters about patients because they can't be there it's been unbelievable watching staff who don't work the hours and the days they are, coming in day after day, to help and make sure

the people get treated. >> those are long days, a little insight into the grueling hours and days that the health care workers are enduring since this started. we heard from dr. berry who postponed retirement. >> here's some of the grim numbers. more than 700,000 cases confirmed in the united states. more than 40,000 people have died. >> in kansas, church services can resume, despite crowd size for now. a federal judge has blocked an order, that would limit services to ten or fewer people. the congregations must abide by the six-foot distancing rules. and use other practices like not using collection plates. there's 700 cases. >> a small group of clerics carried out a ritual at

jerusalem church that houses the tomb of jesus or what is believed to be the tomb of jesus. the preeaster ritual dates back 1,200 years. back in march, beaches were crowded. many states have reopened the beaches, including florida, reopening them. beachgoers have to limit their actives to fishing and sunbathing is not allowed. >> boat yards and marinas are open for personal use in new jersey and connecticut. they are district social distancing and sanitizing guidelines. this is the first step toward reopening all three of those states. scientists in the united king come are investigating whether the coronavirus outbreak may have started as early as last september. and possibly did not even originate in wuhan, china.

>> joining us is dr. peter forester one of the scientists on this study, the researcher for forensic genetics, and a fellow at the university of cambrid cambridge. doctor, thank you for joining us. data suggests that the first human case emerged on november 17th. but doctors in wuhan didn't realize they were dealing with a mysterious pneumonia-like illness until december. what leads you to think that infections could have started months earlier, in september? >> what we did was to look at -- we looked at the mutation of the virus. from christmas in 2019, until the end of february. we can see the virus is gaining about -- more than one new mutation per month on arch. and if we work backwards, when would the first virus circulating in humans?

that works out roughly mid-september and early december 2019. we use this as a clock. >> are you saying that the virus had to spread silently in animals and humans for years or some time before it got to the form it is today? >> so, this is not my work on animals. but if you look at the coronavirus, it is different of the human variant, by 1,200 mutati mutations. we have one mutation per month. that's many, many months it would have been innen in malls. and the question arises if there's other bats or hosts that are closer to our type or whether it's been a spread that's not been noticed. i would tend to think we don't have the host animal, which is closest to us. that would be my best bet. >> where do you think this started? >> the spread amongst humans looks like it started in east

asia, probably in china. the earliest samples we have in analysis come up as being chinese. the surprise for me was, when i first looked at the result, was wuhan didn't have the typical "a" at high frequency. the 44 wuhan samples, 42 were not the ancestral type. in other parts of china, more of the ancestral type. i think we need to look further than wuhan for the origin. >> what does that mean? the ancestral type? >> we identify three viral strains. "a" is the ancestral type, the most tsimilar to the bat. "b" is derived and "c" is derived from "b." "c" is found in singapore. that's the type that made it to europe, for example.

"a", the early type, is spread in china but also found in an early stage in australia and the united states, on the pacific coastal states. >> a reason why i failed at biology several times in high school. i appreciate there's smarter folks out there than myself, who are studying this. your team seems pretty close to figuring this out. and your work will be helpful to u.s. intelligence agencies. hopefully, we're investigating the origins. do we think, though, based on what you're seeing, that the chinese were being truthful throughout this? >> i have no direct contact with china. i don't know the system very well. so, i think this is probably for scientists on the ground to comment on. >> dr. peter forester in london. >> the doctor is very good at dodging. appreciate it. nearly 60 million people have lost money due to

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for july. >> it's a huge economic driver there. comic-con is announcing ticket holders can get a refund or hold the tickets until next year. 59 million americans have lost money from canceled flights, hotel stays. sabile joins us now. 50% of people who asked for a refund got one or future credit. people that answered this survey would pick more than one question. are people supposed to ask? on one hand, you want the big corporations to still employee people. but on the other hand, you want your money back. >> yes. it's a fight to get the refunds. they are really hard to come by right now. companies, like many americans, are holding on tight to cash. they are looking down a dark financial hole. and they want to survive the coronavirus pandemic. we're seeing that many americans

are struggling, when they want to get the refund. it's long phone lines. and if they have to go online and take all of the steps and only 30% are going to get the full amount of their refund or have gotten it. this is what many are dealing with, as sporting events, tech conferences, live theater events. all of this is canceled and they want the money back because there's uncertainty going back to the economy. >> i would think that the traveling thing was a racket. >> travel insurance is not something you necessarily could take or think it will protect you in this kind of environment. the coronavirus pandemic is pretty well known right now. unless you have an insurance policy that has cancel for any reason, it's likely it won't help you in that instance. but the u.s. department of transportation said they received complaints of people

wanting their refund because a flight was canceled and the airline wanted to give a voucher for future travel. they are supposed to give a full refund. if you can't reach them on the phone, try online. and if you can't do that, reach out to your credit card company. >> never get that insurance again. >> yes. >> sibile, thank you. >> thanks, guys. did you watch it last night? one world together at home concert, sponsored by the world health organization, global citizens, raising millions of dollars. >> the three late night comedians served as hosts. and it included messages of hope from former first ladies. >> we are thankful for our pharmacists, the veterinarians, the police officers, the sanitation workers and those working in grocery stores or delivering food and supplies to our homes. your strength will carry this

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president trump is defending the u.s.'s coronavirus response. even casting it as far better than other nations around the world. it was part of the president's latest briefing yesterday that included a lot of questionable claims. >> joining us is a senior politics reporter with business insider. thanks for being here. the u.s. is the number one in both cases and deaths. so what to you make of this picture he's i trying to paint that our nation's response compared to the the rest of the world is actually better? >> i spoke with a number of former u.s. diplomats and officials over the past two weeks about the u.s. response and how it's been viewed on the global stage. they essentially said that trump has embarrassed the united states on the world stage and opened a void that's been filled with china in terms of global

leadership. one told me the u.s. has not behaved as a global leader during this pandemic the u.s. is not even helping itself. what she was referring to was the lack of a robust testing system and the fact that governors had to turn to each other for help and in some cases even china in order to receive much needed medical equipment because trump has denied them that help. >> and the president is now suggesting that state governors aren't using the testing capacity available or giving him the credit he thinks he dezer deserves. let's listen. >> you don't hear anymore about haven't laters. we have tremendous capacity. dbirx will be explaining that. the democrat governors. they are the ones that are complaining.

>> is there any proof to these accusatio accusations? >> republican governors have also complain canned. the governor of ohio said they are missing critical components for the testing kits. there's no truth to this. the fact of the mart is the u.s. is still behind many countries of the world in terms of testing n terms of the population versus the rate of testing. so the u.s. is only tested act 1% of the population. the latest figures from johns hopkins saud we have tested 3.7 million people. so we're still critically behind. >> the message from governor larry hogan have also complain ed. the president al repeating his claim that the former administration left him in a bad position. why always go back to the previous administration with this. he does not want to take personal responsibility when asked about testing capacity and the early stumbles in that

regard with the fault you test kits. he sads i don't take responsibility. ask obama is only us one of trump's many scapegoats during this crisis. the fact of the matter is when trump says i inherited broken or or whatever else you want to describe it as test kits from obama, that's false. coronavirus emerge d in lawsuit december. trump had had been president for three years by then. it's true some of the critical supplies during this crisis had been depleted by the obama administration such as masks, but trump had had three years to gather more supplies and to prepare. >> thank you so much. we're out of time. good to see you. >> thank you for watching on this seasonunday. >> coming up next, alex wit talks to a michigan congressman about the protests there. yes! until i realized something was missing... ...me. you ok, sis? my symptoms kept me- -from being there for my sisters.

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