. welcome back. i'm ali velshi. a new nbc news wall stre"wall s journal" poll reveals how americans think president trump is is handling the pandemic. a majority of americans disapprove of trump's approach. 44% us approving and that is down slightly from last month. americans are also saying they don't trust trump when it comes to the pandemic. 52% saying they don't trump trust the president's statements about the coronavirus. when it comes to the 2020 race, more more thanes think joe biden is better equipped to hnd the a crisis.

>> he says i take no responsibility for that. it's not my fault. it's somebody ls's fault. he's doing the exact -- i know this sounds strange, but he's doing the exact thing we teach our kids not to do. blame somebody else. not me, the other guy. not me, the other guy. i mean, this is the president of the united states. >> meanwhile, 45% of americans now view the economy as poor. that's a big jump from the end of march when the pan dem you can was really starting to take hold. that was 22% at the time. just to show you how times have changed, the number was 14% in december. december just 14% of americans thought the economy was poor. 58% versus 32% believe the economic impact is not as important as the human toll and they back the shelter in place

measures. nearly three quarters of a million of americans have been diagnosed with covid-19. that more than 38,000 americans have died. those numbers continue to rise and continue to take an immense toll on those task ed with takig care of us. >> what's happening now is we are desensitized to it. that causes a lot of worry for me only because desensitization leads to apathy. and that's a very dangerous place to be in health care. especially taking care of patients' lives. this is apparent. this is a loved one. to be the best they can be. >> joining me is former

presidential candidate tom strks steyer. he was named the co-chair of the california task force on business and jobs recovery. so tom, you're going to be one of those people in charge of the get back to work plan, which is great. i think all americans support that idea. but this polling indicate thas don't think that that is more important than dealing with the virus. and i us think that's very telling because the president seems to be riding the wave. >> what we're doing is to try to get back to work as fast as safely possible. and in kr, governor made it clear, the health and safety of the citizens come first. and in fact, everything -- people are worried a about their jobs and taking care of their

family, but it's absolutely necessary that we follow the governor's six rules for opening up. we will get back as fast as we can. but we will never put at risk the health and safety of californians. >> what do you make of the polling that indicates that americans are saying that they think that the toll to human life is more dangerous than the economic toll. it's set up as a dichotomy that's one we wouldn't have to normally think about. normally deal with the crisis and there's economic damage we're going to have to change some things fundamentally. but the president made it a binary decision. in that decision, americans are not siding with him. >> i think the governor has done a speck t spectacular job prote their health and safety.

i don't think it's possible to open up the economy in a successful and careful way without ensuring that first and foremost. that's what the governor has done. it's also important to realize as we reopen the i economy, we should be pushing for a fair, green and forward-looking future. that's something we're determined to do to make sure that the underresourced communities are front and center of what we're doing and that we rebuild in a sustainable way. >> that's a good question. i'm glad you brought that up. you have always been somebody that you have been an activist for a long time. there are people who say now is not the time to talk about it. the president specifically says if you leave this to democrats, they will give you their laundry list of stuff to do. it includes better action on climate change, it includes

better action on health care. it includes higher wages and a stronger safety net. these are the moments in time we're spending a lot of money and doing a lot of difficult things. people are saying why don't we rebuild the house the right way right now? >> i think that's right. and i think it's really important here we're going to keep the california values of equity and inclusivity, innovation, stainability in the front of everything we do. i think you can count on us to do that. that's exactly the way the governor laid it out. >> thank you. i know it's early for you. i appreciate the time. former presidential candidate tom steyer. joining me now is the may your of atlanta and governor john

carney of delaware. let's talk about delaware for a second. 2500 confirmed cases of covid-19 in delawar in. 67 people have died. certainly we have about more than 2,000 confirmed cases and 74 deaths. let me start with you, mayor. how is atlanta doing? >> we are doing as well as can be expected right now. there's a lot of anxiousness, a lot of anxiety around when people will be a automobile to get become to work. but certainly the concern about their health is at the top of of the list. we have some of the highest as ma raies in the country. it's not just the seniors we're concerned about. we're concerned about our kids. so i think by and large, we have done a pretty good job in the city because you shut the city down very early. but statewide we're not doing that well. we had nearly 18,000 people who have tested positive.

>> governor, on one hand that makes sense geographically to be northeast states that are close. you have existing relationships. but on other way, that was sort of a gathering of forces to confront the president to say if you're not going to do what we need, we'll do what we need. how is that working out? >> it's working out well so far. my interest on doing it was really two-fold. one was to benefit from the expertise of other states. the experience of other states. to make our own decision here in delaware baseed on the facts and the situation on the ground. and secondly, to think about doing it in coordination with states around us. we're a small state here. just short of a million people right on the i-95 corridor and

the northeast corridor. and between new jersey and pennsylvania and maryland. so when a governor does something in those states, it affects activity here in delaware. people live in pennsylvania and new jersey and work in delaware. and vice versa. so we need to think about doing things together in a koocoordind way to the extent possible. a situation is different in philadelphia and southeastern pennsylvania. but we need to keep in mind what they are doing as we make very difficult decisions to reopen the economy here in delaware. >> the poll we just released says that 58% of americans disagree with donald trump's plan to loosen restrictions on movement too quickly. 38% think that president trump has the ability to handle a crisis versus 47% for joe biden.

52% disagree with the preside president's handling of the pandemic. you were early on to support "morning joe"'s candy. we talked about this earlier. and joe biden is doing something interesting. he's saying he's going to prepare something that might look like a cabinet to give the american people a sense of if i'm in charge, here are the people that i'm going to have heed you out of this crisis. you have been named as someone to be considered. some have even tout ed you as a vice presidential pick. would you be interested in being the vice president of the united states? >> i don't know of any elected official who wouldn't be honored to be spoken occuf in that grou. what i can say is what i have said repeatedly. i want joe biden to pick the person he thinks will make the best candidate to beat donald trump in november of 2020.

if it's me, i would be honored to join. if it's another woman on a long list of accomplished women, i think that he should go with his for 2020. but i can say this. elections matter. and we don't recognize that as a country right now then we are in bigger trouble than us think any of us could imagine. the reason that we are having such a difficult time nationwide is because the team in place, it was a part of the obama/biden administration to deal with pandemics no longer exist. now we can't blame this on any one person, but our response certainly we can talk a look at what the response that we have had nationally. i know it's made it very challenge iing for me the mayor a major city and a major metropolitan area to be able to make the decisions for some type

of civility. i haven't had a lot of anxiety about the pandemic except for when i watch donald trump give his evening briefing on whatever that thing is that he calls it when he gets in front of the american people and doesn't tell us the truth. >> governor, it's interesting. in this poll it indicate thags the most trusted entity on the pandemic is the cdc, but state governors come in a close second. people in the absence of leadership a at the federal level, which i just. the to say here is where it should be coming from right now, oare depending on people like you, governors and mayors. you're being called upon to take a leadership roll in something that's part of your job description, but americans feel it's something you need to lead on. >> when you think about response to emergency, you think about

execution at the local level, management at the state level and support at the federal level. the governors across the count, i think, are doing a good job in providing management and leadership at the state level. we need support, some of which we're not getting particularly in the area of testing and personal protective equipment from the federal level. we're get iting amazing executi at the local level. just the front line first responders, our health care workers, hops here in our state are doing an unbelievable job. we need leadership. we don't need finger pointing and need to be picking fights with one another. we need support from the federal government. we need execution from our partners at the local level. and management and leadership by governors across the staut. that's what we're trying to do. governor hogan is our chair of the governors association.

lead iing the governors in thei interactions with the white house task force and vice president pence. and has been a real advocate for all of the governors and each of our states. >> mayor, one of the problems that you had in your state in particular was april 2nd. we're on the 20th of april now. on april 2nd your governor said he didn't know asymptomatic people can transmit this illness. that's a fact we have known since january or february. and i don't know your governor well, but i worry that people are getting selective information who are making important decisions in this country and that risks the lives of people in your state. >> i have a very good working relationship with the governor. i can't specifically speak to what information he had and did not have. but our partnership in working with the state has been a protective partnership.

we are now standing up 200 additional beds k which will go a long way in helping us with any spiking that we may see. also at the part of the executive order that i signed, there will be an additional 120 beds coming along in one of our major hospitals within the city. and so i think it's just most important for people to exercise common sense, no matter what our leaders are saying. listen to the science and the science is very simple. we have to stay home in order to save lives. i also think it's incumbent to do things that make it easier for our people to stay home. and the city we have been passing out food to our students and seniors. we had funning set aseide for small business loans before the government stepped up.

we have things in place to to address the needs of the homeless community. those are the things that we have to do in order for people to take this seriously and feel comfortable staying home. >> thank you to both of you for your leadership. we appreciate the work you are doing. there's all this talk about a new normal. but what does new normal look like? coming up next, why it's time to change america's concept of normal because widespread poverty, instability and unquality is not supposed to be normal. way more unique fixtures and tiles. pairing. ♪ nice. way more top brands in sinks and faucets. way more ways to rule your renovation. nice! on any budget, with free shipping. wayfair. way more than furniture.

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despite arguments about how and when to open america, there are signs of progress. some major beyond their infections and deaths. potential vaccines. drug trials moving forward, all steps towards a return to sit. the question is what normal or a new norm will look like. this pan document you can has changed us. the future is going to look different from the past and some things must change. i have a friend who says the dau before something is truly a breakthrough it's a crazy idea. they are risky to attempt. here's one crazy idea that may be worth attempting now. universal basic income.

ubi is a big dole. it's a big idea. there's lots of versions. every citizen regardless of employment status gets a modest income from the state, no strings attached, which allows them to live above the poverty line. taxpayer dollars that cut through means testing and prove what you're doing is of value to society. not only serves those who fall through the cracks this society, but think of increasing numbers of caregivers, contract workers, part-time workers, people who care for their children, most of whom receive no health care or child care benefits thus their employers. benefits that most of the developed world consider to be basic rights. three quarters of workers live paycheck to paycheck. half earn shockingly low wages. millions of americans are food insecure and highly automated society is about to get more automated. in 29 states truck driving is

the most common job. yet we're working in overdrive to eliminate those jobs with self-driving vehicles. in an increasing number of stores, you don't need to interact with a human to do business. more people into the workforce but more jobs will not. universal basic income has critics and detractors, mostly those who say will will cost too much or laziness and it's unsustainable. but ubi could happen at no additional cost to you, would you support the idea? just last week the pope wrote this may be the tomb to consider a universal basic wage, which would acknowledge the noble essential tasks you carry out while america is on pause, we have a moment to think about rebuilding our damaged house. let's make it a home for those

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this virus is killing at an alarming rate here in measuring. a rote report from my home city of houston, texas, shows that coronavirvid-19 deaths 57% of f tall cases are african-american. please protect yourselves. >> the queen b with a message during the one world together at home. one of the not so hiddens a pecks of the covid-19 pandemic is the correlation to inequality. someone's ability to access the internet may not only continue working at home or go to school, but their chances of becoming technology correspondent repo s

reports. >> reporter: each morning she and her family park their van within free wifi. it's the only way she can afford to get her kids connected to their schools. >> this is your day? this is how you get connected? >> we just sit around and do their homework. >> reporter: the kids are getting online because of these buss. they already have wifi for the ride to school, but districts are parking them in the open. across the country, the internet is everything right now. and those who can't afford it are baurly functioning. but even in cities where broadband is available, the number of people who can't afford is shocking. >> in the united states, we have 18 million households in the u.s. that do not have broadband skub scriptions at home. >> reporter: this cities like chicago, lack of internet access at home correlates with higher death rates with coronavirus.

just lock at these maps from chicago. the neighborhoods with the highest coronavirvid-19 death r march and early april also reported the lowest rate of paid internet subscriptions. it's not the only factor, but it's an important one. without the internet, people have to go out to pay their bills, visit with a doctor, buy groceries, putting them at greater risk. >> do you think there's overlap between not having broadband access and having greater vulnerability to something like coronavirus? b. >> us i think the clear overlap is poverty. we know that in poorer neighborhoods, there are fewer households with access to the broadband in their homes. so if you're not on brond band, you're not going to stay at home. >> that was jacob ward reporting. joining me now is an economist and professor at columbia university. joe is the former world bank chief economist and also the chair of president clinton's

chair on economic advisers. he's an expert about income inquail kwaulty. his latest book "people, power and profits." the thing about your book, even if somebody doesn't want to read it and i think they should, progressive capitalism. you're not talking about socialism. you're talking about wages. you're talking about health care. you're talking about doling with inequality in a way that capitalism can and should. >> exact ly. when us say that the kind of capitalism we have had over the last 40 years has not worked for most americans. and one aspect of it not working is a huge inequality not only in income and wealth, but access to health. and that precise ily we're seeing so strongly with covid-19 because the disease, it's a nasty virus.

it goes after people with lack of good health conditions and those are disproportionally the poor. >> so your point is, a loot of people have said and continue to i say how would universal health care have made this better. there are countries like the united kingdom and a hot of european countries with high instances of covid-19 and they have universal health care. what's the thing that would make this better for americans who are coping, if we had universal health care? >> one of the things that would be most important is the death rate. and this disease kills those with a whole set of preexisting conditions. and the prevalence of those preexisting conditions is very dependent on access to good health. it's also access to good nutrition. and income inequality, wealth

inequality translates unfortunately into lack of good nutrition. the united states is unique in having across the country what are called food deserts. people cannot get good nutrition. that's a reflection of our wealth inequality. >> what would you do right now? we're looking for a fourth stage of this recovery plan. we know that other countries have dealt with this covid-19 with people staying at home, without hitting the unemployment rates we're probably going to hit. probably at 15% right now and estimates could go a lot higher. how do we deal with that? >> ab shoutly right. our performance is at the worst of the advanced countries in terms of unemployment. and the other countries have put an emphasis on maintaining the bond between the worker and his employer.

and especially important in the united states because americans depend on that relationship for their health care. if they don't have it, we're going to overwhelm our medicaid system. so maintaining that bond is important now and for our recovery. the fact is that the third package had a program that didn't do that very well. that ppe, that small business loan program was an absolute disaster. there are several very important proposals as a very important proposal where you get money directly to the firms based on thundershower employment of workers and wages below a certain threshold. say $90,000. you're replacing 90% of those

wages. and that keeps the workers on the job connected with the employer and that means we'll have not only less of a burden on the unemployment insurance system, which has been devastated, but also we'll be be a able to go back to work when the pandemic is put back under control. >> joe, good to see you. thank you for joining me this morning. he's a nobel prize winning us economist, professor, former chief economist a the world bank, former chair of president clinton's chair of economic advisers. progressive capital u., let's get used to that term. it's an interesting term. next, who is to blame for the failure of the small business loan program. mark cuban weighs in when velshi continues on msnbc

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instead of using aloe, or baby wipes, or powders, try the cooling, soothing relief or preparation h, because your derriere deserves expert care. preparation h. get comfortable with it. . a blueprint has been put forward for reopening the economy despite warnings about the risks of relaxing saufty orders too soon. meanwhile, small business owners are facing tough decisions about the futures of their companies. the welcome of funding from the paycheck protection program, and the mismanagement of the system which allowed big companies

access to small business funding is only the littest in a long list of concerns over the handling of the coronavirus response. banks, which were faced with thousands of applications within minutes of the program opening. an independent bank ceo told nbc news that it was a stampede through the eye of a needle presidential banks have faced their share of criticism. mark cuban laid a portion of the blame on banks creating hurdles. hadn't. >> this is a point right now where banks and treasury have to get their act together and say loan money first, ask questions later. this is that inflection point. it's right now as we're speaking that we are at an inflection point where money has to get into the system so small and medium and even large companies retain employees. >> with me now is that man, mark

coup bab. an entrepreneur, you know him, the owner of the dallas mavericks and one of the sharks from "shark tank." dr. fotony kohl's is also joini me. good to see you. this is an important time. this is not a time to intellectual liez this. i walk outside. almost everything is shut down. and small businesses do not keep afloat. you know them well because you see them at the front end on "shank tank." they don't keep cash flow around. they don't have the sophistication to be the first ones through the gate when the banks open the door for the loan program. >> they don't have the relationships to call thundershower banker and say put me up front. we have to learn from the mistakes of the original ppp. we have to adjust and gmake sur bankers don't try to finesse

this. they know who needs it right now and need to move forward and get it funded. the fact that we're delaying this makes even worse. us by the time the money gets approved, by the time the banks approve it, most of those small businesses are out of business. >> i want to pull up an editorial from the "new york times" editorial board. it says stop dawdling. people need money. it's slowing distribution of federal federal stimulus to families. policymakers are making things worse. mark talked about fears of frud. the smaller you are, whether you're a regular person or a little business, the distinction between a regular person and lult business is is often very small. you're funding it on your credit card. you're funding it with people, frn friends, family and they don't necessarily have the abilities to work the system as well as they could. talk to me about your perspective. you're talking to small

businesses. >> so let's frame this conversation a lult bit. the reason there's a stampede through the eye of the needle is that analysts estimate that the small business need, the amount of money we would need to prop up small businesses is somewhere between $1.5 and $2 trillion. $350 billion were allocated in the last stimulus package. so there's one of the biggest problems we have. ween don't have enough money. there's now a conversation about an additional $250 billion, but that will still far short of that that we talked about a moment ago. if you complicate that by those small businesses, let's say minority small businesses that have the greatest need. minority small businesses often times act and operate outside of the formal commercial and retail banking structure. they rely on commercial development financial institution, credit unions, small, local banks.

so if funds aren't designated, those small businesses that require them the most won't have access to them. so whatever we do in the next phase, we really need to pay attention to those institutions that will get funds where they are most decembsperately needed those businesses that may not survive that's the problem. >> mark, you spoke to trevor noah i talked about universal basic income. you talked about minimum wage. you said in the past a lot of people would talk about trickle-down exhibition one of the lessons we learn is it's time for trickle up-economics. we're only as strong as the base layer of all of our employees and all those that get paid hour but hour f we don't take care of them, there is is no economy. we're learning that very quickly right now. mark, we're in a toum of change. what change should we make? >> number one, i think a federal minimum wage is critical of $15. some say it puts small busine

businesses a at a disadvantage, but as long as everybody is playing by the same rules, we create a consumer base where people are able to awe ford to buy things. we have to start instituting protocols for small businesses to follow if and when we get opened up. we talk about mass and public health ask those are important. but we just presume that all small businesses know what to do to maintain safety standards and we don't. on top of that, we don't know what the cost for those businesses are going to be and we're not talking that into account. there's things that need to be thought through. but number one, if people can't afford to buy base you can goods, whether it's groceries or anything else, there's no economy. >> tony, the federal minimum wage, which a lot of states have is $7.25 a an hour. that's $15,000 a year. it we go to what mark is suggesting, that's $30,000 a year. still not a lot of money.

but those concerns that small businesses share, i'm going to lay people off if i have to go from $10 to $15 an hour, i have to lay people off. now what mark is saying is over time these people will have more money. our costs will probably go up, but there's a new higher base and everybody is playing from the same rules. how does that conversation go with small businesses whom you represent? >> well, i think we have to look at the need for continued support for small businesses. so we have to ensure that americans can be paid a fair and decent wage. that they have a job opportunity. this is a precise place where the small business administration can step in and support whatever shortfalls that might exist in these small businesses as we have this very careful balancing act between a fair and decent wage and ensuring the health and vitality. we have we talked about the fact that entrepreneurship in black communities have increased 34%

frwhen all other racial groups have decreased over the last ten years. there's something magical happening in the black community and minority communities from a small business pount of view that needs to be promoted. >> gentlemen, great to see you. thank you for being with us. thank you for your good thinking on how we do get back to work. because it is true that americans want to get back to work. but they want to do so safely. mark cuban and dr. tony coles, thank you to both of you. new york city mayor is update iing the public right non the coronavirus pandemic in his city. we're monitoring it. we'll bring you any information informationment th that comes o it. the truth behind president trump claims that he inherited a broken system from barack obama. we'll bet to the facts of the matter when we return. that's why we're still offering fast, free

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what we have done is incredible in test iing. i started with an obsolete broken system from a previous administration. unfntly, some partisan voices are awe tempting to politicize . >> all right, president trump yesterday defending his administration's testing capabilities, shifting blame on to the obama administration once again. that claim is simply not true. the problem is the lack of testing. and op-ed in "the wall street journal" argues while trump brags about conducting 4 million tests, quote, that's barely 1% of the population, three months into a crisis. that's not an achievement, it's a scandal. our next guest dr. zeek emanuel says the country needs 1 million to 2 million tests a day, not thousands. in a "new york times" opop-ed, argues, the coronavirus gives congress a chance to fix america's broken healthcare system and hopes, as we look

back on 2020 in years to come, perhaps we will recount how covid-19 saved medicine. let's bring him in now, dr. zeek emanu emanuel, msnbc senior medical contributor and the host of the podcast "making the call. " good to see you. you have been saying this since before coronavirus, the medical system, not just the health insurance system, but the medical system including our training, including our delivery, had to change in this country anyway, so why not use this as the time to change? >> well, it is not just why not use this. coronavirus is changing the healthcare system. we have been trying to get a lot more telemedicine in the system and suddenly literally overnight

we had telemedicine everywhere. in 2019, we found that only 19% of family doctors were -- 22% of family doctors were using telemedicine, now it is 100% you're out of business. similarly we have been complaining about hospitals and others giving a lot of low value care. that's care that really doesn't affect anyone's health, doesn't improve their health, now that's had to go away because of hospitals being, you know, swamped with patients with coronavirus. we have increased the threshold of who we admit. that's a good thing. and so we're going to have to strike a balance as we go forward. more telemedicine, we're going to have to save primary care doctors, but have them focus on the sickest patients and do more -- on the phone and via virtual interactions. and hospitals we need to be sure they don't go back to the old base where they admit patients who are not really suitable for admission, who can be cared for

at home, just to collect the revenue and fill the beds. we need to decrease the amount of elective procedures, we know a lot of those elective procedures are low value or patients are told the true impact of that on their health, they would elect not to do them. we need to actually -- >> let me interrupt you. what you just say is what worries a lot of americans, right? people like me who have healthcare through my company and it is pretty good healthcare. expensive by the way, to my company, expensive, my co-pay is expensive, but it is great. i can have any elective procedure. i would like my nose moved closer to the side of my cheek, i can get that done, maybe not all of it is paid for. people are worried if you move to any other system of health insurance coverage those 70% of americans who get healthcare through their companies will suddenly not be ensured for pretty much anything they ever want to do with the doctor or at a hospital. >> so that's a really good

question. let's just remember, just five months ago, right, not that long ago it seems like ages, but not that long ago, whats wi's the nr one issue americans were complaining about, the cost of the healthcare system. we need, you know, if we want to get the costs under control, one thing we have to do is make the system more efficient, get the prices down. we also have to get rid of what experts call low value care or no value care. that is care we deliver that really doesn't improve health. i'll give you one example. two weeks ago in the new england journal of medicine, there was an article that looked at patients, steroid injection into knees for pain versus physical therapy. turned out physical therapy was better than steroid -- we had a lot of studies that have shown things like radiation for the breast cancer, we can give

radiation over seven weeks or a little more intensely over three weeks, which is much cheap, three weeks is better, and yet most women still get seven weeks of treatment. we need to go to three weeks of treatment. these kind of changes don't affect the health of patients, but they do affect the cost substantially and costs, when we're through with covid, will be a big, big issue again. and we should also say, ali, as you pointed out, most of us get our health insurance through our employer. with lots more people being unemployed, health insurance is going to be a real danger and i think that's going to put a lot of pressure on congress to change -- >> yes. zeek -- >> yeah. >> i can talk to you about this for an hour and i'm going to get to talk to you about this for an hour on friday night at 10:00 on msnbc. we'll probably see you 15 times between now and then. but we're going to get to talk about the medicine, the science and something important you bring up that we did not get a

chance to talk about today is how we keep doctors and medical offices and those people solvent, so to continue to provide us with the care we need. dr. zeek emanuel, thank you. a former obama white house health policy adviser and vice provost of global initiatives at university of pennsylvania and co-host of podcast "making the call." that's it for me. coming up on "am joy," sherrod brown tells you about his plan for a pay increase up to $25,000 for essential workers. thanks for watching. this is "velshi" on msnbc.

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are you concerned about the potential impact on the global economy? >> i think that china will do a very good job. >> trump never got a cdc team on the ground in china. and the travel ban he brags about, trump let in 40,000 travelers from china into america after he signed it. not exactly airtight. look around. 22 million americans are out of work. and we have more officially reported cases and deaths than any other country. donald trump left this country unprepared and unprotected for the worst public health and economic crisis in our lifetime. and now we're paying the price. >> good morning. and welcome to "am joy." there are now more than