kids. i know what a wonderful grandfather he would have been. the jokes, the games, the toys he would have made them. >> they never got a chance to roll their eyes at a jim joke. >> yeah. this sunday, opening ° arguments. >> we're opening up our country. >> president trump releases broad federal guidelines for a phased in return to normal. >> our national shutdown is not a sustainable long-term solution. >> mr. trump leaves the decision but not money to governors. >> you're going to say i'm providing no help. no assistance, no financial money. >> and offers only limited plans for increased testing. >> today, we have sufficient amount of testing to meet the requirements of a phase-one reopening. >> but health care professionals are deeply skeptical. >> i don't understand why they would even consider it.

not until we're in the clear. >> this as the president encourages anti-shutdown protests. >> i don't think that the government really has any business telling us what we can and cannot do. >> plus, the economy in free fall. 22 million file for unemployment in one month. >> the average working family is only a couple weeks away from not being able to pay bills. >> why some americans are faring so much worse than others. my guests this morning, vice president mike pence and two governors, republican mike dewine of ohio, and democrat gretchen whitmer of michigan. also, joe biden's big week. three key endorsements. >> i'm so proud to endorse joe biden for president of the united states. >> democrats are unified this time. will it make a difference? joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news white house correspondent peter alexander, danielle pletka, and jeh johnson. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press" and our continuing coverage of the coronavirus pandemic.

>> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. a week that began with president trump declaring that this authority was total ended with a death toll in the united states topping 38,000 and mr. trump telling governors it's up to them to decide when to reopen for business. but the president's broad guidelines leave many issues unresolved like a lack of protective gear for health care workers. plans to handle a likely resurgent in the pandemic, and how to vastly increase the testing needed to restart the economy.

mr. trump is being squeezed by depression-like numbers that prompt some to argue that losing lives may be an acceptable price to pay for getting the economy going. he's encouraging anti-social distancing protests by tweeting states need to be liberated from his very own guidelines. we have a new poll on the federal government's handling of the covid-19 crisis. by a 58/32 margin, registered voters say they're more worried the u.s. will move too quickly to loosen restrictions than take too long. 65% say president trump did not take the threat seriously enough at the beginning of the crisis while only 32% said he did. 42% approve of his handling of the crisis while 52% disapprove. now 50 governors are toad to come up with 50 solutions to a national testing problem. he tells them i'll take the credit for opening the country while you take the blame for anything that goes wrong. president trump lurching between declaring power. >> when somebody is the president of the united states, the authority is total. >> and denying responsibility. >> going to be up to the governors. >> after prompting on thursday -- >> we're not opening all at once. but one careful step at a time. >> on friday, the president fueled reopening protests in a

handful of states with democratic governors tweeting liberate minnesota, michigan, and virginia. >> i hope it's not encouraging more protests. >> i do not have time to involve myself in twitter wars. >> i like to know what they think we could have done differently because again, we're leading as we were asked. we flattened the curve, we built up our ppe. >> mr. trump's tweets come as media on the right is amplifying the protests and in some cases conservative groups are organizing and funding them. >> this is great time, gentlemen and ladies, for civil disobedience. >> more than 22 million have applied for unemployment in the last week. in a new poll, 22% say the economy is excellent or good, down from 53% in december. but even trump-friendly republican governors have been slow to embrace the president's call to lift state-wide stay-at-home orders. >> in opening texas, we must be guided by data and by doctors. >> i wanted to come here today

and announce that we can all ease up and reopen. but we can't. >> just 36% of voters trust what the president has said about the coronavirus. compared to 66% who trust their own governors and 69% who trust the cdc. and 64% are not satisfied with the federal government's actions on testing. after months of promises -- >> anybody that needs a test gets a test. they're there. >> only about 3.7 million tests have been conducted, an average of 146,000 per day, far short of what experts say is required for reopening. the president once promised a national testing website and widespread testing in drugstore parking lots. >> you'll be directed to one of these incredible companies that are going to give a little bit of their parking lot so that people can come by and do a drive-by test. >> now, a month later -- >> federal government is supposed to do testing of parking lots in the middle of a

certain state that's 2,000 miles away. it's ridiculous. >> now, president trump is trying to shift the blame, tweeting, the states have to step up their testing. >> he said 11 times, i don't want to get involved in testing. it's too complicated. it's too hard. i know it's too complicated and it's too hard. that's why we need you to help. >> and joining me now from the white house is vice president mike pence. mr. vice president, welcome back to "meet the press." >> morning, chuck. >> i want to start simply with what some governors have had to say on the issue of testing. take a listen, sir. >> there needs to be more testing infrastructure, more test kits, more capacity to test. >> we need some assistance from the federal government when it comes to swabs and reagents. >> one of our problems for our hospitals who are doing testing is lack of reagents.

and this does lie with the fda. >> they set the expectation very high, but then they didn't send the cartridges to do the tests. >> we have put in seven to nine orders to fema and not received anything. >> this is mayhem. we need a coordinated approach between the federal government and the states. >> i'm sure, mr. vice president, you probably can recognize the voice of all 50 governors these days because of how often you're on the phone with them, but those were three republicans and three democrats. i know you're hearing this, and it has to do with the new guidelines that seem to indicate that states have to take the lead on testing. it seems as if every governor is basically saying they would love to do that, but they need the federal government's help to do it. why doesn't the president want the federal government to be the lead on testing? >> well, chuck, thanks for having me on. and it really is remarkable to

think about the progress the american people have made over the last several months. when the president tapped me to lead the white house coronavirus task force, he gave us the first objective is to save lives. and to focus on slowing the spread, bending the curve. and because of the extraordinary efforts of the american people, we continue to see every day evidence that cases are declining, hospitalizations are declining. that's a tribute to the american people. frankly, it's a tribute to all of those governors, governors in both parties across the country who put these mitigation efforts into effect. secondly, the president made it clear to us that we were to make sure that hospitals in impacted areas had the resources and equipment that they needed to be able to save as many lives as possible. and i have to tell you, the tens of millions of personal protective equipment that we have coordinated for delivery around the country, especially

in areas most impacted and the fact that ventilators have been delivered in areas across the country so that no american who needed a ventilator has ever been denied a ventilator. we're actually increasing the stockpile today. but testing has been a focus of ours as well, from the very beginning. it's the reason why the president early on brought in this vast array of commercial labs that took us from 80,000 tests one month ago to now 4 million tests as of yesterday. and as we'll make clear again to governors tomorrow in our weekly conference call, we look forward to continuing to partner with governors all across the country as we continue to scale testing because we really believe that while we're doing 150,000 tests a day now, that if states around the country will activate all of the laboratories that are available in their states, we could more than double that overnight and literally be doing hundreds of thousands of more tests per day in a very short

period of time. but chuck, just so we're very clear, when the president outlined his guidelines for opening up america, we laid out a plan for both when and how we thought it was best according to our best scientists and advisers for states to be able to responsibly and safely reopen. we believe today, as dr. birx has said, as dr. fauci and others have said, is there is a sufficient capacity of testing across the country today for any state in america to go to a phase-one level. which contemplates testing people that have symptoms of the coronavirus and also doing the kind of monitoring of vulnerable populations in our cities, in our nursing homes, that we ought to be watching very carefully for outbreaks of the coronavirus. we believe working with governors as we'll continue to partner with them, that we can activate labs around the country and states today, if the governor so chooses, have sufficient testing to be able to move into the testing contemplated in phase one. >> do you -- do you believe governors are not activating their testing capacity?

i mean, these governors have said they would love to enhance their capacity. but they're missing swabs or they're missing the reagents. in one case, governor dewine told me there have been rations. that is what, i guess the question is this, why haven't you used the defense production act to basically get swabs and reagents prioritized? >> what we have done through fema and through u.s. public health services literally marshal the full resources of the american economy. we have been bringing medical supplies, including testing supplies, in from all over the world. and we'll continue to do that. but look, as you said, chuck, i have been working almost daily over the last two months with republican and democrat governors across the country. and this vast and complex system of testing using the commercial labs around the country and

using hospital and public labs is a new concept, so we have been working with governors around the country to make sure that they and their health officials know about all the resources in their states. and we also have deployed a team from walter reed that over the last two weeks has been calling every single laboratory in the country that can do coronavirus testing, and tomorrow we'll be presenting all of those details to governors so that they can activate those tests in their states. >> mr. vice president, aren't you making the case of why this needs to be nationally coordinated? you just said you have identified this capacity, you have identified this. this is why i think a lot of governors have said the federal government has to play point on testing. is there even a single person who is so focused, is on what is happening with our testing strategy in this country and how are we going to expand it?

>> chuck, we actually have coordinated it at the federal level. admiral brett giroir of the u.s. public health service spends all of his time coordinating testing, deployment, and resources deployment from fema. what we're making clear to governors and i want the american people to know is that we will continue to do that. while the president has made it clear that we want the governors to implement testing and deploy testing where they deem it's most appropriate in their state, we're going to continue to fully partner with states around the country to increase the supply, to make sure that they have the reagents and the test kits necessary to perform those tests. but i want to say, again, it's a tribute to the president's leadership that early on in this process, he brought in the top commercial labs in the country. they formed an alliance, and we went from one month ago to 80,000 tests being done to 4

million tests being completed as of yesterday. we'll continue to increase that. we'll continue to make governors aware of that. but our approach from the beginning, chuck, has been we want in any health care crisis, we want to make sure the health care workers at the local level have the resources they need because it's locally executed. it's state managed but federally supported. and the federal government at the president's direction will continue to support governors as they deploy the testing resources in the time and manner of their choosing. but we believe today, as dr. deborah birx has confirmed, is we have a sufficient capacity of testing today for any state in america to move into phase one and begin the process of reopening their state and their economy. >> who should pay for the contact tracing? is that going to be the states? is it individual companies? or should the federal government, since you're requiring contact tracing be a part of this, is the federal government going to pay for that?

>> the cdc has deployed across the country today, literally in every state. but at the president's direction, as we announced last week, the cdc is going to deploy teams in every single state in the country to do contact tracing over the next 12 to 18 months. the cdc is really the expert at contact tracing, and it really is, chuck, the way that we typically control the outbreak of infectious disease. you identify someone who has symptoms. you test them, and then you immediately find out who they have been in contact with. that's what the cdc does. and as we announced last week, we'll be deploying coronavirus

cdc teams in every state in the country on top of the hundreds of cdc personnel that are already embedded in states today. >> is one of the reasons we're behind on testing because of the -- i saw the fda came out and said basically the cdc's initial test was faulty, that they found a lot of bad parameters that weren't -- guidelines that weren't followed that ended up having that. how much did that set us back as a country? how many lives unfortunately might have been lost due to the faulty test kit? >> i have seen that report in the papers this morning. i know that hhs is making inquiries. but we believe those issues were resolved on that particular test by early february. but it's important for your viewers to know that that test, the slow lab-based test that is typical for cdc and public health labs, would never have been able to meet the needs of testing in this coronavirus epidemic.

that's why president trump was so right when he brought together these commercial labs and formed a consortium and literally took us from at that time in february, we had done some 20,000 tests total across the country. >> right. but again -- >> we're doing 4 million. we believe we'll have done more than 5 million tests before the end of this month. none of that would have been possible without the president's leadership, without the innovation, without the incredible efforts of companies like roush and abbott laboratories. the american people can be confident whether it's supplies, whether it's testing, we'll continue to make sure our governors, our state health care officials, and most especially, our health care workers have the resources and support they need. but i want the american people

to know that sitting here this morning, we really are seeing encouraging signs because of what the american people have done. we believe we're slowing the spread. there's a downward trajectory beginning in even some of the hot spots around the country. and now more than ever, it's important that each of us continue to do our part and i can assure the american people that at the president's direction, we'll continue to play our role. we'll have a full partnership with governors around the country. >> let me ask you about the president. >> some day in the near future, we'll put the coronavirus in the past. >> let me ask you about the president's tweets on friday, he wants to liberate minnesota, liberate michigan, liberate virginia. all three states have issued guidelines that follow the national advice that you have been giving them. they're following the president's guidelines to the best of their ability. can you explain what the president is trying to liberate minnesota from? i don't quite understand that use of language. >> well, no one wants to reopen america more than president donald trump. and i think the american people have known that. from weeks ago when the

president declared that important balance, we have to make sure that the cure isn't worse than the disease. because the reality is that for all of the sacrifice the american people have made, sacrifices that literally have saved lives, the truth is that there are real costs, including the health and wellbeing of the american people, to continue to go through the shutdown that we're in today. and so the president laid out new guidelines for every state in the country. >> i understand that. mr. vice president -- >> if you see cases decline for 14 days, if you're in a position to do the kind of -- >> what's he tweeting? what's he tweeting? >> we want to encourage -- >> mr. vice president, i have given you a lot of leeway here. >> that's the new guidance we're giving. >> i understand that. i have given you a lot of leeway. i have not been wanting to interrupt you. that's not true. i always want to jump in on some things. i have given you a lot of leeway. why is the president trying to undermine the guidance you have been laying out? and that he's been -- he laid out this guidance on thursday. and undermined it on friday. >> chuck, i don't accept your premise, and i don't think most americans do either. the president's made it clear, he wants to reopen america. and we laid out guidelines for every state in the country to safely and responsibly reopen

their economy at the time and manner of their choosing. we laid out the criteria for when our best scientists believe that would be appropriate. if it was 14 days of declining cases, and they had proper hospital capacity. and we laid out the means to move into phase one. when you hear the president, when you see people across the country, i'm talking about reopening, every american and this president want to do that in a safe and responsible way. the guidelines for opening up america are a framework for doing that. and we'll work with governors across the country to implement those because we want to put america back to work as soon as we responsibly can. and at the president's direction, we're going to continue to work to do that every day. >> it does seem as if the president wants credit for reopening the economy, and he wants the governors to get the blame for not opening it fast enough. that's what the tweet seems to

imply, that he doesn't want to own the responsibility of these necessary shutdowns. >> the american people can be confident that this president wants to reopen the american economy as soon as we can safely and responsibly do it. but we believe with the guidelines, open up america again, we have given governors around the country our very best counsel about how they can do just that. and we'll continue to work with governors to make sure that they have -- that they have the guidance, that they have the counsel, and they have the resources to accomplish that. and to put the coronavirus in the past some day and to put america back to work. >> and i just want to clarify one other thing. you said that you believe 5 million tests by the end of april is a success story. the fact we have yet to -- that will mean we have yet to test 2% of the population. that is a success story on testing? >> chuck, we believe that under the phase one criteria that we have a sufficient amount of

testing at that level to allow states to begin to responsibly reopen. literally doing more than 150,000 tests a day now, a number that we believe we could double once we activate all of the laboratories around the country. we're confident that that would enable any governor who has otherwise met the criteria of 14 days of declining cases to be able to have the testing capacity sufficient to monitor people that may have symptoms so we can identify them and do contact tracing, and also deploy the resources to vulnerable populations, nursing homes, and particular vulnerable populations in our city to insure that we don't see a resurgence of the coronavirus. so yes, we think we have laid a strong foundation for testing, for phase one. and we're going to continue to expand testing going forward for the nation in the weeks and months ahead. >> mr. vice president, it was nice to see some normalcy yesterday at the graduation ceremony at the air force academy.

i think a lot of people are hoping for more and more normalcy when the time is right. thank you for coming on and sharing the administration's perspective. when we come back, president trump has left the reopening of states to governors. some of whom are being pressured by what appear to be coordinated anti-social distancing campaigns from the right. i'll talk to two of those governors from michigan and ohio next. and as we go to break, numbers from our poll on the impact of coronavirus and how it's having an impact on americans. impact of coronavirus and how it's having an impact on americans. - i've been pretty stable with my schizophrenia for a while, and then my kids asked me why my body was rocking back and forth. my doctor said i have tardive dyskinesia, which may be related to important medications i take for my schizophrenia. i also felt my tongue darting and pushing against my cheeks. i was worried what others would think. td can affect different parts of the body, and it may also affect

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protests in their states are with us. democrat gretchen whitmer of michigan and republican mike dewine of ohio. welcome back to "meet the press." i want to start with something the vice president said and i want to confirm it with you all. he says every state has enough testing capacity and enough equipment to begin enough testing to get through phase one. governor dewine, is that true in ohio? >> well, first of all, chuck, we had a great partnership with the president and vice president. three weekends ago, i called the president about a real problem we had about sterilizing masks, the n-95 masks. and that was an fda problem. and the president got that done. our big problem today, i could probably double, maybe even triple testing in ohio virtually overnight if the fda would prioritize companies that are putting a slightly different formula together for the extraction reagent kit. and if the fda would do that, we have a shortage worldwide shortage of some of the materials that go into this.

so we really need help. anybody in the fda is watching, this would really take our capacity up, literally, chuck, overnight. that's what we need to get moving in ohio. >> all right. there's the answer in ohio. you need more federal help. governor whitmer, do you have enough right now, testing both capacity and equipment, to have enough testing to do this phase one guideline? >> well, similar to ohio, i think part of the story in michigan is we have the capacity to double or triple the number of tests we're doing, but wi need some of these supplies. the reagents and the swabs are absolutely essential. you can't process all these tests if you can't take the sample and protect it and move forward through testing. so while our capabilities are there, these important supplies are not. and that's, i think, one of the points you were making in your interview, is that if the

federal government would use the defense production act and say we're going to make every swab people need, and we're going to expedite creation of the reagents, we would be able to know how prevalent covid-19 is. it would take down the risk associated with taking actions to re-engage parts of our economy because we would have a lot more data about how prevalent covid-19 still is in our states. >> all right. let's talk about the issue of reopening the economy. governor whitmer, i want to start you. you saw those protests. so let me ask this. you have any regrets on any of the restrictions that you have put into place? >> i don't. and here's why. you know, michigan right now has the third highest number of deaths from covid-19. and yet we're the tenth largest state. we are having a disproportionate

problem in the state of michigan. so we could take the same kinds of actions other states have, but it doesn't rise to the challenge we're confronted. and that's why we have to take a more aggressive stand. it's working. we are seeing the curve start to flatten. but as people come in from across the state and gather and congregate without masks, without standing six feet apart, without those important protections, it means that they might have gone back to these parts of our state and perhaps brought covid-19 along with them. our rural hospitals are not equipped to handle a big surge, and that's why this important step that we have taken are just critical to continuing to flatten that curve. >> governor whitmer, i want to stay with you here a minute on this issue. i'm just curious, what have you learned about people's patience, i guess, and your citizenry's patience? and are you contemplating figuring out how to balance that a little bit? how do you essentially open a steam valve a little bit so that you don't -- so that these protests don't become distractions to the greater good? >> absolutely.

you know, every executive order i have taken weighs heavily on me. i know when we pulled kids out of school, that means they're not getting the education they need. some of them aren't going to get the meals they have come to rely on. i know when we shut down bars and make restaurants dine-out only, there are businesses that may never open again and a lot of people are going to get laid out. these stay home orders weigh incredibly heavy because i know there's an economic cost, there's a mental health cost. people are struggling with this isolation we have on top of all the other stressors. but the fact of the matter is we have to be really smart about how we proceed. i'm glad to see that the white house recommended opening in phases or waves or whatever terminology you want to use. the fact of the matter is we can't just turn back to what life was like before covid-19. we have to be strategic. we have to be careful. we have to look at different sectors of our economy, how often do they interact with the public, how close do they work

together, are they indoor or outdoor? do they are share tools and machinery? all of these are factors that have to go into a really thoughtful situation where we start to phase back in sectors of our economy. but we're doing this calculation every day. and looking to when we can do that safely because the worst thing would be a second wave. >> governor dewine, congress is, as a former member of congress, certainly, you're not surprised congress is struggling here to do the second response financially. there's going to be some partisan back and forths. you may have personal views on this, but let me ask you this. congress' priorities on the small business fund, unemployment insurance, help to the states, help to the hospitals, what do you want to see congress -- should they prioritize one or the other, or should all three, states, hospitals, and the small business fund be prioritized simultaneously? >> all of these are really important. what we really need at our local government level as well as at the state level is more

flexibility. we're looking, as you can imagine, chuck, when we have a downturn in the economy, two things happen as far as the state is concerned or local government. your revenues go dramatically down and the costs go dramatically up. so just more flexibility so that we can fight this virus but at the same time be able to educate our children, be able to take care of people who have mental health challenges. that's really what we need. so flexibility would be the one word that i would ask from congress. >> let me ask you this, governor dewine, you had some protests. we have seen that the president is egging on these protests. is this wise to politicize social distancing right now? >> you know, chuck, the only thing i have asked our protesters to do is observe social distancing. we're all big believers in the first amendment. they were protesting against me yesterday, and that's just fine. they have every right to do that. we're going to do what we think is right, what i think is right, and that is try to open this economy, but do it very, very carefully so we don't get a lot of people killed, but we have to

come back, and that's what we're aiming to do beginning on may 1st, and frankly, it's consistent. very, very consistent with the plan, the very thoughtful plan that the president has laid out. >> okay. governors whitmer, governors dewine, michigan and ohio respectively, thank you very much for coming on and sharing your perspectives frame your states. good luck, stay healthy, stay safe out there to both of you. when we come back, is president trump hoping to get the credit for reopening the states while leaving the blame for anything that goes wrong to governors? panel is next. but first, we asked respondents to our poll for a word or phrase to describe what america is going through right now. here's the word cloud.

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welcome back. the panel is with us from their remote locations. nbc news white house correspondent peter alexander, danielle pletka, and former homeland security secretary jeh johnson. welcome. i want to show the president's job approval rating trend in our new nbc/"wall street journal" poll. here it is from april of 2019. i want to show you thee numbers here. 46% approved. 51% disapproved. now think about what's happened, guys. we had an impeachment and a pandemic. so an impeachment and a pandemic has happened between april of '19 and april of 2020 and the president's job ratings are 46% approve, 51% disapprove.

peter alexander, obviously, the durable nature of the president at times knows no bounds. a pandemic, an impeachment, nothing seems to break through there. that said, the president seems to be, and i'm curious, peter, he seems to have moved on to a new phase. he seems to believe he's got a big part of his job on the pandemic done. >> yeah, chuck, i think you're exactly right. in my conversations with white house officials and those close to the president, they agree. they say in the eyes of the president, this is a transition to a new phase. what's particularly striking here is you sort of have this me president and what is best described as a we crisis. the president who as you said earlier in your conversation with the vice president, is trying to sort of claim credit for the guidelines being out. they say they beat the may 1st deadline, saying he's trying to move the economy on, get things back to normal life, is now casting the blame for perceived failures on testing and other issues if the economy isn't to

come back quick enough, on the governors here. you just compare that, chuck, to what millions of americans watched last night with leaders and artists together in this concert that was watched around the globe. right? this was something that focused on the sort of sense of togetherness right now. acting selflessly, working together with other nations, including frankly the world health organization and the effort to stay inside. most presidents you would see really raise their numbers, they would rise dramatically in moments of crisis like this. it hasn't been the case for this president. >> no, there's been a temptation to engage politically. but jeh johnson, as a former head of dhs, how would a national testing strategy work if you were told to put together a national strategy? >> two things. first, chuck, i do have to put my public safety hat back on here.

the president, the vice president, the white house are so anxious to say the worst is over, we're on a downward trajectory, we're flattening the curve. without delivering the equally important accompanying message that governor cuomo and others have been so good at, which is we're still in the depths of this crisis and we still need to be vigilant and rigorous in our social distancing and the like in order to get to where we all want to be. now, that aside, the vice president in his interview with you said three times we have the testing in place right now to go to phase one of the white house guidelines. but if you read the white house guidelines carefully, phase one is still social distancing, keep the vulnerable population at home, no common areas, bars closed, nonessential travel should be banned, so phase one looks a lot like mid, early march. it's relatively easy to say we have testing adequate for that right now. to go back to normalcy, we need way more than what we have right now, which is why there needs to be a national federal effort at getting what we need to do the testing. >> danielle pletka, we shouldn't be surprised by the president's eagerness to open. i get that, and that is to be --

to be charitable, one way to look at what he's doing. but he also seems to be desperate to engage politically in this. in ways that feel like they're unhelpful to him long term. >> you know, we have all been having this conversation since donald trump was elected. at the beginning, everybody hoped that campaign don was not going to be president donald trump, and that didn't happen. and at this point, i think we need to recognize that there is not going to be any personal growth in office for donald trump. you know, he is going to be the man who he was, and we shouldn't be surprised he wants to take the credit where he can take the credit and shift the blame, because that's who he is, and to be fair, most politicians are going to be that way. on the other hand, i think he's in an extraordinarily difficult position. 22 million people have filed for unemployment. when we talk about those

numbers, we're talking about people's lives. we're talking about people's income. we're talking about their wellbeing in ways that aren't about the coronavirus. and to want to give people hope and the sight of a light at the end of the tunnel is something i think the president needs to do. the problem is, of course, he also needs to be there helping to provide the tools necessary on a state-by-state level. that's where the government and especially the fda, from my standpoint, is falling down on the job. >> yeah. peter, the way this response has worked in the past is that they dig their heels in, they're not going to do something, not going to do something, and literally they'll do a 180. what's the likelihood they do a 180 and say you're right, we should take over testing? >> i think you saw them try to detail what they view as the national testing strategy in your conversation with the vice president, but i'm struck by the continued mixed messaging. consider the president with the liberate tweets about minnesota, michigan, and virginia, all

three states with democratic governors, all thee states are battlegrounds. you have the president as the leader of the resistance against his own policies. right? the bottom line is, back and forth once again on this issue. one day, he claimed total authority. the next day, he's blaming the governors. they put out the guidelines, the day after that, he says, hey, we need to remove the guidelines in effect in those places. consider his past mixed messages on issues like the masks, when the cdc put out its guidelines and moments later, the president said, i don't really plan to wear it, and back and forth on the dpa as well. this is an unprecedented moment, and in fact, we don't know what the backlash, how this will backfire here. it's a test. we wait to see how americans respond. >> hey, jeh johnson, just very quickly, do you think it looks odd that congress isn't working?

that they're trying to do this remotely? look, at the end of the day, you chose to be an elected official. you chose to be in public service. you do probably have to risk your life more than somebody who chose not to be. should they physically be here? maybe protect their staffs, but these individual members? >> well, in defense of the members of congress, the reality is that most of them, just like we are right now, can do their jobs remotely. they can't vote on the house floor or the senate floor, obviously, and maybe we need to look at how, you know, you can make that work. but i'm sure most members of congress are pretty busy right now even though they're not physically in washington. >> i guess, but i have to say part of me says that it does seem odd they're not here, the governors are on the job, everybody else is on the job. anyway, i'm going to pause it here. when we come back, why some people are doing so much better than others economically during this crisis. >> but first, here's some new york city firefighters thanking health care workers in brooklyn. york city firefighters thanking health care workers in brooklyn.

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welcome back. data download time. another week, another set of deeply disturbing unemployment numbers during this pandemic. but not all states are feeling this the same way. and nbc news analysis found these five states have seen more than 19% of their labor force file for unemployment since march 14th. none of them are new york, by the way. these are the states where less than 7% of the work force has

filed for unemployment. florida may change soon there. beyond the state where you live, our latest poll finds your socioeconomic status has a lot to do with how the pandemic is impacting your job security. 14% of poor or working class americans say they have already lost their jobs and the jobs that offer telecommuting and those that don't. 47% of americans say they could work their jobs at home. that means what feels like a lifestyle headache for some is more of a tumultuous and life changing events for others. >> when we come back, why this year's veep stakes, the competition to be joe biden's running mate, is unlike any we have ever seen. stay with us.

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welcome back. here's a couple of the political items from our new nbc/"wall street journal" poll. some of you want to see the big head-to-head, trump v. biden. biden continues to lead here. leads by seven in this new one. 49/42. he's essentially had about that kind of lead over the president throughout this calendar year. but here are some matchups on some specific issues. president trump leads biden on who best to handle the economy. but it is biden that leads the president on handling a crisis, and biden that leads the president on responding to coronavirus. dani pletka, we went back.

the last three incumbent presidents when asked about who best to handle a crisis, obama was picked over romney. bush was picked over kerry, clinton was picked over dole. it's rare to see an incumbent president not seen as better handling a crisis in the middle of a campaign. >> well, i mean, i think the evidence speaks for itself, doesn't it? we have seen donald trump handle this crisis, and that's where his numbers are coming from. i think people hope, would hope for more from their president, and they haven't gotten it. on donald trump's side, though, the numbers you showed at the head of the show were unbelievable. his approval ratings are exactly the same now as they were a year ago. what that tells us is that donald trump has what he has to assess as a very, very solid base of support. and they're not going to be affected, not only not by the economy that we see now but not by the coronavirus or his handling of it. >> and peter alexander, we now have an idea of what the negative campaigns are going to look like between both candidates, with team trump

deciding to make china the bogeyman, with biden frankly it was something obama did to romney back in 2012, was to hit him hard on china, and it was effective in the midwest. doesn't the president undermine his own china attacks when he talks about his great relationship with xi. >> that's what's striking when you hear the president speak about china. he held back criticizing china in the early days. he attacked the w.h.o., the world health organization, for saying china was being transparent. early on, the president praised china for its transparency there. it's because the president was trying to maintain the good relationship with president xi because he thought the relationship in terms of the trade deal on which he thought he would be judged when it came to the political season would be so critical, but in conversations i have with white house officials, they say it's the president's effort to really focus on this economic issue, that's what's driving him, is very much a political calculation with the belief, they say, that americans will be

making up their minds on the fact in their eyes that the country is going in the right or wrong direction. in late august or early september, which gives the president three or four months, which is motivating him to try to push people back to work so aggressively. >> bashing china is pretty popular on a bipartisan basis, jeh johnson, and joe biden is trying to respond saying you think i'm close to china, what about you? what's the unintended consequence of that? >> the unintended consequence is it makes it much more difficult to deal with a very large economic power on multiple fronts. and we will get through this. the president's favorite tactic is to find somebody else to blame in a crisis like this. you know, it's i can do whatever i want, but i have no responsibility for anything. and i look for somebody else to blame. and for some, china is a convenient target. but we need to focus on what we need to do here at home.

>> one other topic that got a little bit of news this week, dani pletka, was the veep stakes for joe biden. we're seeing some truth -- some actual honest responses. we have got people asked about it, and not pretending they don't want the job. stacey abrams says, yes, i would love to do it. i'm ready. and kamala harris, yes, i'm ready. and elizabeth warren. it's -- frankly, i look at it as a pleasant change. it used to be ridiculous when all these people would pretend they didn't want the job or weren't thinking about it. >> i agree with you. i think it's a completely pleasant change. in this time of social distancing, people can't sidle up to the vice president, vice president biden, and say hey, you know, i would love that job. so they're being very frank. frankness in politics is something to be appreciated. hey, you know, i want to add something about what my colleague said about china as

well. you know, this isn't just a convenient target. china is where this started. china is where lies were told that have cost lives. china is definitely something we're going to need to talk about and talk about distancing from china. that's going to be a challenge for both joe biden and donald trump once we're done with dealing with this immediate crisis. >> and it has a global impact. a definite global impact about sort of who is the leading light of the world. that's for sure. anyway, thank you panel. you guys were terrific under these social distancing circumstances. that's all i have for today. thank you for watching these days. please be careful and stay safe out there. we'll leave you this morning with pictures of buildings lighting up blue in honor of health care workers. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

good morning, everybody. it is monday, april 20th. we're going to begin over the president's mixed messaging over the stay at home orders. a day after announcing plans to allow governors to reopen their states, protesters called for an immediate end to guidelines tweet and the president tweeting far right protests have formed across several states in recent days. many of them trump supporters.