should lead, and that's the states leading. what the states will run into is when you talk to those labs, the 300 labs, they buy machines and equipment from national manufacturers. and those labs can only run as many tests as the national manufacturers provide them chemicals, reagents, and lab kits. the national manufacturers say there are supply chain issues. i'd like the federal government to help on those supply chain issues -- >> is that just mere funding or is that -- >> no, it's harder than funding. this is a quagmire. because it's not just funding. because i've offered funding to the national manufacturers, and i've said, you know, i'll buy, i'll pay -- what do i have to pay to get the tests? the national manufacturers will say, well, it's not that easy. i can't get the chemicals, the

chemicals come from china. i can't make the vials fast enough. i can't make the swabs fast enough. so, i don't know what's right or what's wrong with that national supply chain question, but that's where the federal government could help. but should the states take the lead on the tests? yes. that's exactly right. but we need the volume, and the volume is going to be determined by how well those national manufacturers provide the kits to the 300 labs in new york. once you take the test, there's a whole second function that we're not talking about, which is you take the test -- tracing, you know. we have to talk through tracing, because people don't understand what tracing is. tracing is then this function that we've never done before, where you hire an army of people, thousands of people, to

be investigators, in essence -- not a scary investigator -- but an investigator who traces the contacts of every person who is positive. that's an entire undertaking that no one has even imagined before. >> so, ideally, would you like the federal government to use, say the defense production act to ramp up production of say supplies, things like that, and then also have the federal government hire this army of tracers? is that what you're asking for? >> the tracers, i think, i would argue -- and just my personal opinion as a governor of new york -- i would do the tracing as a state responsibility also. some people think the federal government should help on tracers. i would say the state can do the tracing, and i'll coordinate buffalo tracers, rochester tracers, westchester, new york city tracers, nassau, suffolk. i think that's too discrete an action for the federal

government, right? anything that is granular and specific to the specific details of a state, leave that to the state government, right? you're in the federal government. i used to be in the federal government. the federal government, you're painting a room with a roller, okay? you can't do corners with a roller. you can't do trim and molding with a roller. somebody has to come behind you with a brush and do the details. state government has a brush. so, the federal government has a roller. i have a brush. let the federal government do what they can. if it requires a brush, let the state government do it. the big question on the testing is that national manufacturers supply chain and getting that up to scale quickly. i'll handle my 300 labs, but

when my 300 labs are now saying, i can't get the tests from the national manufacturer. and the way this happened, because nobody designed this before, and it's nobody's fault. right away, everybody was going to, who's to blame? nobody's to blame. the way the testing world worked was a national manufacturer made their machine. the andrew cuomo testing machine. i sold my machine to private labs and hospitals. my machine only operates if you have an andrew cuomo testing kit. it doesn't work with a howard zucker testing kit. you have to buy from me. and now what's happening is you call up and say, okay, i want to buy 1,000 kits. i say, you normally only buy 100. i know, but now i want 1,000. i can't get you the 1,000. so, even though you have the machine, i am so, as a national

manufacturer, i have such an increased demand, i literally can't produce it in time. and to unravel that supply chain issue and manufacturing issue, i think that's the best way the federal government can help. >> make your argue p argument -- >> do you have a follow-up? >> i guess the question -- i'm just a little bit confused, because are you asking the feds to step in and tell manufacturers or to bring in different manufacturers to make this sort of equipment and then you're also asking for the federal government to pay for the tracers, but you'll handle the kind of nuts and bolts? >> we didn't get into payment of tracers. i don't think there's been any proposal where the feds pay, do they? on tracers? no. no one's even talking about paying. the states right now pay for the tests and pay for the tracers. that's why i say, when they say the states, governors, go reopen. okay, i'll do the test. by the way, i pay for the tests. i pay for the tracers. so it's not about the money. on this front.

it's about division of labor and responsibilities. and on the testing, i can't solve for the national manufacturers not being able to produce the volume to sell to my state labs. >> given the high number of deaths in nursing homes, on friday we saw a division between those that are nursing home residents that have passed away, both in the home, but then -- or in the nursing homes, that is, and also in the hospitals. but what is the state's policy regarding admission or readmission to these nursing homes, whether or not one of these people have tested for the virus or -- there was a state directive that said that people cannot be denied readmission or admission. just wondering what the state policy is right now, again, judging the high number of deaths that are coming out of these -- >> if you are testing positive for the virus, are you allowed to be admitted to a nursing home is the question? >> or readmitted?

>> or readmitted. >> yeah. >> that's a good question. i don't know. >> the policy is that if you are positive, you should be admitted back to a nursing home. the necessary precautions will be taken to protect the other residents there. >> is that safe, though? and does staff have the capacity to treat those individuals? is that the best place, again, judging how rapidly the virus spreads and also this is a very vulnerable population, as you guys have expressed multiple times. >> and that's why we're working closely with the nursing home, both the leadership and the individuals who are working in the nursing home, to protect those individuals who are coming back who had covid-19 and were brought back to the nursing home from where they came. >> what are you working on? like, what are some of those -- >> all the issues of supplies, ppe, staffing, testing of other individuals. as i mentioned the other day, just monitoring to be sure that the necessary precautions are being taken. >> okay, so -- >> governor, i wanted to ask you about the hydroxychloroquine test results. do you have them? can you share what the results are? >> the hospitals, those tests have been done by hospitals in

new york. i think we had like 20. how many hospitals? >> over 20. >> over 20 hospitals were administering hydroxychloroquine and doing a test. they are today, those hospitals are to send their results to the fda. who do they send them to? >> send them down to the fda and to the cdc. >> fda and cdc. and they should be sending the first tranche of results today. >> will you be getting a copy of those results as well? >> department of health gets a copy, but it's really a study that's being done for the federal government. so it goes to the fda and the cdc. yes. >> governor, i know you've been against a regional approach, but due to so many upstate hospitals laying off people right now, do you think there is a way to bring back elective surgeries, at least for upstate hospitals? and with so many -- there's different projections going on right now. you spoke earlier about a rolling wave, but there are some projections saying, like eerie county, for example, they're not

necessarily getting better, and they're projected to hit i think late june. are you worried at all about a rolling projection if there were to be a regional approach to reopening? >> yeah, two questions. both good ones. is there a rolling curve? yeah. it's an ocean. i see an ocean. they're rolling curves. new york city had the first curve. and then they project higher curves in other states, in other parts of our state, right? so, massachusetts is now coming up to a high point. and we're working with them. anything they need, we're with them. god bless. buffalo will have a later curve. albany will have a later curve. and we're watching those curves in different parts of the state. and our strategy has always been, we deploy to wherever the curve is highest, right? massachusetts has a problem, we'd run to massachusetts. buffalo has a problem, we run to

buffalo. we run to rochester. so, whenever you get up towards that point. and the locality we're working with to prepare for that high point. second question, on the elective surgeries. we stopped elective surgeries for all hospitals in the state. that was one of the ways we increased capacity, right? now we're at a point where some of the upstate hospitals have significant financial burdens because they're not doing the elective surgery, which is one of the places where they make money, frankly. and they're saying, can't -- we have lower vacancy. we don't need those beds for new york city people or buffalo people or anyone else. why not let us start going back to elective surgery, if we don't need the capacity? that is a good question and we're going to look at -- we have been looking at that. it's, again, a little question

of balance and the valve and the dial. you let them go do elective surgery, they fill up the beds with elective surgery, then what happens if you have a need for those beds because of the coronavirus and you don't have the bed because someone is doing some form of elective surgery? that's the balance. that we're going to announce tomorrow a policy that we believe provides for that and has some variables that take the coronavirus rate in that region and compares it to the vacancy rate in that region and a potential for a high point in that region and we'll announce that tomorrow. >> governor, regarding unemployment insurance. i believe the end of last week -- and maybe this is a question for -- i'm not sure --

i think there were 275,000 unprocessed claims. have you been able to make a dent in that, especially with people who are self-employed? >> so, yeah -- >> melissa, she has all the answers, melissa. i have only questions. >> they've made a significant dent in that. they've brought on over 3,100 people to work daily for the last four days. they've brought that 275,000 applications down to just over 4,300 that are now outstanding. so, that's all been cleared. those phone calls all happened. those applications are closed. now those applications get inputted and the comptroller starts to process the checks. so that backlog of people this week should see the money coming. about 78% of people choose to get their money through direct deposit. that happens within 48 hours of when the claim is finally processed, which, again, is happening this week, the applications and the phone calls getting done was one piece of that. this is now the second piece of it. and then others choose to get their money on debit card. that's a longer process. that takes about a week to come in the mail. so, if you can, i would

encourage people to go the direct deposit route. and the department of labor announced this morning there was this incredibly inefficient, frankly, stupid process that the federal government laid out around pandemic unemployment insurance, where if you were a gig worker, if you were self-employed, if you were a contractor, you had to apply for unemployment insurance, get denied, and then go through the process, a second process of employing for pandemic unemployment insurance. and what the department of labor came up with was a new form that was launched this morning where you can now fill out one application, put in all of the information, and the department of labor determines if you are not able to get regular unemployment insurance, it will automatically put you into the pandemic unemployment insurance. so you don't have to wait, get rejected, reapply. so, that should hopefully streamline for those people who i know have been really struggling to get their money faster. >> i believe the total figure was -- >> good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in

washington, continuing our coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. while the president has been citing progress and talking about reopening the country, more than 40,000 americans have now died from covid-19. that's nearly twice as many as only a week ago. here are more facts you need to know at this hour. governors in both parties are rejecting white house claims that there are enough tests already available to begin lifting the lockdown in their states. and last night, while still calling testing a local issue, the president for the first time said he will invoke the defense production act to manufacture test swabs that are needed. he didn't say when. congressional leaders and the treasury secretary say they are making progress toward a new package of more than $400 billion to refund the small business loan payments and support hospitals, including in rural areas. democrats are not getting what they want for food stamp recipients or state and local governments, including the district of columbia, with republicans insisting on recorded votes that would require house members to return to washington.

and anger at the stay-at-home rules partly fueled by right-wing and online trump campaign activists has been sparking protests in virginia, michigan, colorado, pennsylvania, and other states. not coincidentally, key battleground states. the president is praising the protesters, denying ample evidence that many are violating his own administration's social distancing guidelines. moments ago, new york governor andrew cuomo right here on msnbc at his briefing announcing that the three-day levels of hospitalizations are decreasing and the number of new cases of covid-19 and deaths from the virus are indeed leveling off. but he said that nobody disagrees that we want to get out of this situation, adding, "you don't need protests to convince anyone in this country we have to get back to work." joining me now to sort through all of this, nbc's maura barrett in harrisburg, pennsylvania, former republican national committee chairman and former lieutenant governor of maryland, michael steele, "washington post" white house bureau chief phil rucker, and msnbc national

political correspondent steve kornacki. welcome all. first to you, phil rucker. what we're seeing in the governor's pushback is pretty stunning, considering what the president has been saying, again, at his briefing last night. >> that's right, andrea. there continues to be a testing shortfall in this country. sure, more than 4 million americans have been tested for coronavirus, but we're a country of more than 300 million people, and the public health experts say we need more testing and more testing quickly in order to be able to make the assessments about which communities can begin a staggered reopening process. and what we've seen from the president is he's trying to shirk the blame or responsibility, rather, for testing. he's saying this is not a national issue, it's a state issue. and yet, we're hearing from governors, democratic and republican alike, that while they are managing their own testing processes, they need

federal help. they need national assistance to get more tests, to make them more accessible, to get more swabs, to run those machines. and the president does appear to be listening to that, because he said yesterday he'd invoke the defense production act. however, he did not give a timeline for that, and he did not say, i don't believe, what company he was going to be forcing to produce and manufacture those swabs. >> and in fact, in past weeks, he has talked about invoking the defense production act, and then we don't see it happen, so we're going to be keeping close track of that as well, because this was particularly, on the swabs, he said that they could -- he actually did a show-and-tell, showing the swab, and said that they could actually produce 20 million swabs a month with the invocation of the dpa. maura barrett, you're in harrisburg, pennsylvania. i know the governor is going to be briefing shortly, but there have been protests there. what have you been seeing there, as we see protests around the country? >> reporter: andrea, the reopen

pennsylvania protest was supposed to be one where people stayed in their cars, honking around the capitol building here, but as i look around, there are easily more than 1,000 people here on the capitol hill steps, along the streets, around holding american flags. lots of signs saying "impeach the governor," "we need our jobs back," "all jobs are essential," and many of them, andrea, are not wearing masks. so obviously, when we talk about social distancing, that is very clearly not happening here. when i spoke to some people about why they decided to come out today, they think that the government and the politics have amplified this conversation and have blown the virus out of proportion is what they tell me. and i asked them if it's a political issue outside of the governor here, and as you can see behind me, there are several trump 2020 signs, lots of people who are concerned that they're not getting accurate information or transparency from the governor here. i asked one woman what she's looking for from the government,

and she said, we want them to go away. we voted them into office and they're not letting us work. if people want to go to work and they're healthy, they should be able to go. and if they're sick, then they should stay home. and so, people are really frustrated about the lack of work that's happening right now. the governor shut down nonlife-sustaining jobs back in mid-march, and that sparked almost 1.3 million unemployment claims here in pennsylvania. organizers are just speaking behind me now, and governor wolf is expected to speak in the next ten minutes or so. last week he laid out some standards for a rough reopening and he says he's going to look at data-driven and a regional approach but didn't give a specific timeline. so, folks here and across the state are really looking for more details from governor wolf coming up possibly in the next couple of minutes. andrea? >> governor wolf, of course, is a democratic governor. pennsylvania a key state, one of the three states that combined to 77,000 votes in michigan and

pennsylvania and wisconsin that, of course, what the big factor pointed to in the republican victory with the president being elected. this is clearly targeted. michael steele, you were the former lieutenant governor in maryland. i wanted to play a little bit of two governors, larry hogan, the head of the republican -- well, not only republican, but the head of the national governors association, and also governor northam from neighboring virginia. about these protests and about the president's claims about having enough tests in order to do what they had to do. >> that's just delusional to be making statements like that. we have been fighting every day for ppe, and we've got some supplies now coming in. we've been fighting for testing. now, it's not a straightforward test. we don't even have enough swabs, believe it or not. >> to say that the governors have plenty of testing and they should just get to work on

testing, somehow we aren't doing our job, is just absolutely false. every governor in america has been pushing and fighting and clawing to get more tests. >> michael, when we talk about the president and his response to the protesters, it's not as dramatic, of course, as to what happened in charlottesville, but you just saw what was happening on the steps of the capitol in harrisburg. and this is what the president is saying about the protests. and we saw similar images and protests of people violating the social distancing in michigan and other states. this is what the president had to say just last night. >> people feel that way. you're allowed to protest. i mean, they feel that way. i watched the protests, and they were all six feet apart, but it was a very orderly group of people. but you know, some have gone too far. some governors have gone too far. some of the things that happened are maybe not so appropriate. and i think in the end, it's not going to matter because we're starting to open up our states.

>> michael, there is a lot of trump campaign impetus sparking some of these protests. >> yeah, i'd say all of it is trump campaign impetus at this point. this is all part of the campaign narrative, these press rallies is what i call them that happen for two-plus hours every day. if you notice, as it crept closer and closer into the prime time space for a reason. it's all part of an ongoing narrative by the president. this is the height of irresponsibility. the president looks at this, these people are not six feet apart. if he's watching this morning in the family dining room, as has been reported, then you know, folks here are not six feet apart. they're not wearing masks. and so, this idea that if i'm healthy, i want to go to work, if i'm sick, i'll stay home. well, what about that two-week infection period where we've got this thing incubating in your system and you're infecting others around your workspace? there's a reason why these governors are saying what they're saying and why they've

put in place, yes, strong, and somebody might say draconian measures, but it is to protect families and communities and to save lives. they're not acting out of some governmental malice or some desire to, you know, have people lose their jobs. that's the last thing they want. we're trying to get healthy. and if you weigh a job greater than you weigh your grandparents' lives or your children's lives or your own life, maybe that's your individual choice, but that's not something that i'm willing to take a risk with my life on. so, that's the space that we oftentimes, andrea, look to a president to give us clarity, to give us a sense of purpose and to say to the american people, yeah, this is going to be tough, but i'm going to need y'all to stay home for a little bit, all right? we're going to work with the governors to get this right. we're going to give them the resources they need. we're going to give them the tests they need so that they can help you get back to work. but that's not what this president has done. instead, he stands up and goes, well, you know, i've seen more

american flags out there, and that's a great thing. these people want to go to work! yes, go to work and die? go to work and get sick? what is the point of that? let us turn the curve, get around that corner where we can get on the glide path to getting well. that's what governor hogan and others have been talking about. we just heard governor cuomo lay out where new york is, and they're there because of the steps they're taking, despite the lack of support and help in testing and other areas that they've received from the federal government. >> and in fact, the american people, according to our new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, are pushing back against reopening the economy, going back to work too soon. 58%, at least 60% of those polled say that they are more concerned about reopening too early and then having a second wave of the covid-19. steve kornacki, what else are we learning about the public attitudes in this new poll? >> yeah, a lot of questions here

in this nbc/"wall street journal" poll about how this is affecting everyday lives of americans. take a look at some of these numbers here. first of all, this question here. do you know somebody who has covid-19? in our new poll, 40% of americans now say they know somebody who's been inif he canned. to tell you how quickly that's been changing, look, the last time we polled this question a month ago, it's about 27%. it's jumped all the way up to 40% in a month. that number probably going to continue to rise. how about this here? how afraid are you that you or somebody you know are going to get coronavirus? look at this, 33% very worried. 73% total say they are worried about this to some extent. again, the change here from just a month ago. look, a month ago, if you added these all up, nearly half of all americans say they weren't that worried a month ago. that number is now down, if you add these together, to 25%. the number who are very worried has more than doubled. so, psychologically, you can see this is having a pretty profound effect on americans. the impact on their families'

lives. look, 39% say this has changed their families' lives in a major way. 38% in a fairly major way. again, this is a huge jump from just a month ago. just a month ago, only 26% total of americans said it had really changed their lives significantly. now it's the overwhelming majority. again, that just in a month. look, 58% of americans say they can't see their friends, they can't see their family now. how about the fear of leaving your home to go out for food, to go out for essential supplies? 45% of americans say that's a fear they have right now. can't do your favorite activity, 38%. fear for a family member who works in the medical profession. look, a third of americans, a little bit more. that's a fear they have. how about having a school-aged child who normally would be at school at home? 30% say that's having an impact on their life. or a family member in a nursing home. again, one in five americans have that anxiety right now. again, just what it's done to work life. you know, about a third of americans telecommuting now.

how about this one, 16% say their salary, their wages, have already been cut. 11% say they've already lost their job because of covid-19. 2% with a fear on health insurance. and when americans think this will all be over, if things will go back to normal? not too optimistic. look, about 45% say the next few months. 26% say sometime in the next year. a few months to a year. that seems to be the expectation now, andrea. >> a reality check. and that certainly is contradicting a lot of the impetus for some of these protests, and we should point out, there's no way to know how representative the protests are, but our polling certainly indicates that it is not representative of the 60%, nearly 60% who believe that we should be sheltering in place, staying home, until we reach those guidelines which the administration itself has been requesting or demanding, and recommending, let's say, but in violation of that, the president is talking about reopening

before any of those tests have been met. thanks to all of you. and meanwhile, in massachusetts, the other key to testing is contact tracing. it is now the first state to launch a major program of contact tracing to track down people who have not only been tested positive but also all of their personal contacts. the state plans to hire 1,000 people as disease detectives to identify pockets of the virus and then prevent people from spreading it. joining me now is nbc's anne thompson from the boston convention and exhibition center, which has been transformed into the boston hope field hospital. this is also, i don't need to tell you, patriots' day in boston. in any other year, this would be marathon day. just how different is it? >> reporter: oh, andrea, you know, i keep thinking, i look at boston and i think this is boston is still life. everything has come to an absolute stop. as you said, this should be marathon monday. that has been postponed because of the covid-19 situation to

september. september 14th is when they will run the boston marathon, because the state finds itself in a different kind of marathon, a marathon against the disease. and right now, officials believe the state is in the middle of the surge. they have 38,000 cases, 1,700 deaths so far in a state of just 7 million people. and as you said, the convention center behind me has been transformed into a field hospital, and they've divided it into two sections. basically, there are 500 beds for people who are considered postacute, in other words, people who have been to the hospital. they're now getting better, so they move them out of the traditional hospitals here in boston here to this field hospital so they can continue their recovery. the other 500 beds are reserved for the homeless of this city, the homeless who get covid-19 and are not sick enough to go to a hospital, but they also don't have anywhere to go. so to take them off the streets, keep them out of shelters, to

stop that spread, they bring them here. and throughout the morning, we've seen some hospitals or some ambulances go by. but this is certainly not the marathon monday that anyone wanted. >> well, we can still wait and hope for september. boston marathon, obviously, an iconic moment. tragic moment, of course, years ago, and an iconic moment in the culture of the whole country. thank you so much, anne thompson in boston. joining us now, dr. joshua sharpstein, vice dean for public health practice and community engagement at johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health, and from the front lines, dr. dara cass, an emergency medicine physician at columbia university medical center and a medical contributor at yahoo news who's been treating covid-19 patients and has also been treated for the disease. so, dr. cass, let's talk to you first. when we talk about covid-19, you've been on the front line. you've suffered from what health

care workers have suffered. governor cuomo today talked about hazard duty pay, even as the states are not getting the money that they had hoped to get out of this new package that is still being negotiated. do you think that the frontline workers such as yourself and others who are so challenged, as well as other frontline workers, should be getting hazard duty pay? >> so, i think that any time you talk about compensation and hazard pay, i think there has to be a conversation about the risk somebody takes. and honestly, the compensation they already get. as emergency medicine doctor, in a lot of ways, this is what i signed up for when i started, to take care of patients when they come to the er. the people that take care of me, you know, the hospital janitorial staff, the delivery workers, they are not nearly as privileged as i am. and the hazard they have with the ppe and other protections wasn't necessarily addressed as early as it was for me. so, i think that, yes, we need to talk about hazard pay. we need to talk about compensation for people who are at risk taking care of the most vulnerable patients across the board, but i also think there

needs to be a conversation about who was at risk when and how that compensation should be used. >> and how are you feeling? how are you doing now? >> i've said before, i'm very lucky, both to be a new yorker and to have recovered from coronavirus. i think that this city has been remarkable in its response to staying home and really hiding from the virus. i think as somebody that had it myself, i am a firsthand witness to how even in the mild case, it can really take you down. and i think i'm a pretty strong person. and i think what's ironic about all of these protesters who say that they're either not worried about the virus or it hasn't touched them personally is, when it does touch you personally, it can be sometimes too late. and if they say that they haven't known anybody who has it, well, i have. it was me. you know? it was me and a bunch of my friends. it was me and a lot of my friends' parents who didn't survive, unfortunately. and i think that that personalization of this virus needs to get out there more and more, because in plenty of

cities, i think that they're ready to open because they just haven't seen enough virus. that's not what we're saying. we're saying you have to track and trace to know who has it in your community. and then, and only then, should you be ready to start opening up and coming out of hiding from the virus. >> and it's remarkable, dr. sharpstein, that massachusetts becomes the first state to really launch this large-scale tracing, contact tracing program. we keep talking about testing, testing, testing, but without the contact tracing, we're not equalling what south korea and some of the other more advanced countries have done. >> that's right. i think there's been a big focus on the number of tests in part because we haven't had enough. but not enough of a focus of what happens after a test. and particularly that matters in settings like nursing homes and elsewhere. there needs to be a lot of resources brought in to make sure that one case doesn't become an outbreak. and it also matters for people generally because it's important to stop the spread of the virus from one person to the next

person. and that's the idea of contact tracing. it has to be done quickly. massachusetts is partnering with a great international non-profit, but there are other states that are moving on this as well. >> let me ask you about the antibody test, because there has been some indications that the hope that people who suffer the virus would have an immunity and then could be tested also for their antibodies and that the blood plasma could be used as well as an innovative treatment for those who are most severely affected, in icus, perhaps. but there are some questions about the accuracy and the efficacy of the antibody test. >> yes. i think, you know, the country was pretty restrictive in testing initially, and so, we've swung a little bit in the other way when it comes to the antibody tests, letting many products on the market, even without evidence that they know what they're measuring and what they're measuring matters. i do think that a good antibody

test is probably out there somewhere, and we will find it soon and be able to use it. but what we don't know is how well the amount of antibodies people have really predicts immunity. so that's going to take a little longer to be sure about. and these are things that are important to be sure about, particularly if you're going to rely on a test to send somebody potentially into a more hazardous situation. i do think we will find out sooner about whether antibodies are effective as therapy, because those studies are being done very carefully, and when they're reported, we'll know whether we can take antibodies from a hero like dr. cass and give them to someone else, and she can save even more lives that way. >> and i want to also ask you, dr. sharfstein, about the admission from the cdc over the weekend that not only were those initial tests faulty, as we were told, but it came from a contaminated laboratory, where they violated basic fda procedures. and so, for six weeks, we didn't

have a ramping up of the tests that we needed, because of the cdc itself. >> yeah, and it wasn't just the fda procedures. the reports are that the cdc violated its own safety procedures, which is very, very unfortunate and really did set the country back in being on the trail of the virus. there's been a lot of catching up since then, and we've run into all of these other road blocks we're now dealing with, but i think there's going to obviously need to be a totally different approach to this situation in the future. >> dr. sharfstein and dr. deborah cass. thank you very much. continued good health as you continue to treat the patients after having recovered from the disease yourself. we really thank you for what you've been doing. and is there help on the way from washington? that's a big question today. democrats say that they are close to a deal with the white house that would add more than $400 billion to the paycheck protection program, also to

hospital relief and other emergency needs. but if it passes this week, it will be a huge relief for struggling businesses like kim farrow's. she is the co-owner of a florida construction firm. she furloughed 14 workers after applying for the federal loans at eight different banks. the mother of seven is frustrated but hopeful that the money will come through. >> i don't sleep at nights right now because i'm just waiting for someone from, you know, the bank to email or just something, you know, to show that there's hope. >> one of the big loopholes in the program so far, loans going to multimillion dollar restaurant chains like shake shack, whose owner, danny meyer, now says he is returning the $10 million loan that he received. joining us now, nbc news senior business correspondent stephanie ruhle, of course, the anchor of the 9:00 hour on msnbc. stephanie, how does the shake shack get one of these hard-to-get loans? >> so, the restaurant example,

shake shack, is less of a loophole than others. i mean, think of it this way. it's crazy that this has been such a food fight. one bank ceo said to me, it was like a stampede trying to get through the eye of a needle. and this is what makes no sense. 47% of the american people are employed by small businesses. we have approached unemployment insurance, saying anyone who's lost their job is eligible. look what we're doing on the corporate side with massive rescues for corporate america. yet, the heart of the american economy, small business, is now in a food fight. the program was originally $350 billion, and now, hopefully, they're going to add more. but i can tell you this, andrea, whether they add another $250 billion, $350 billion or $450 billion, that money is going to run out momentarily. and this takes you to the shake shack question. why is it some more sophisticated, bigger businesses were able to get the money? well, what they need to do is take a closer look at the eligibility. this thing is called the paycheck protection program. now, danny meyer is an example

of he had to shut down his businesses. they're restaurants. because the government said you can't be open anymore. but what has also happened, lots of other industries -- financial services, law firms, lots of businesses that were never going to furlough employees have been eligible to get this money. and you'd better bet those bigger, more sophisticated businesses have all their banking relationships, they've got all their paperwork in order, and when this thing opened up, in chase's example -- jpmorgan chase got 66,000 applications in the first five minutes, and they've only approved 20,000. so, that construction business owner that you just profiled there with seven children, most likely she's not going to have a relationship with a bank like that, and she's not going to get her documentation in, in the next two minutes. so, the lawmakers have to take a very close look now and figure out, how are they going to get that money to the heart of our economy, not just people who are technically eligible. >> and that doesn't even begin

to come to grips with some of the other aspects of this new relief package. they have not included state and local governments. the district of columbia, despite promises from the democrats that they were going to insist on it, is still being treated like guam or american samoa, not like a state. it's not a state, but you know, the district pays more federal tax money than 22 other states. so, they do -- we have electoral votes here. it's unconscionable that the district of columbia on these fronts is not treated like a state. as well, the hospitals are going to get relief. hospitals are losing money because they're not doing elective, high-paying surgeries to make room, of course, for the covid-19 cases. so, there is some relief coming. but the unemployment comp is still a state-by-state procedure filled with red tape. and a lot of people aren't getting it. >> and we should say, listen, this is a gargantuan undertaking

that our government is faced with, and we're not saying that there is wrongdoing. we're not saying anyone is out to get anyone else. but there's certainly no one size fits all solution. and with every day that passes, we're putting small businesses in a worse position. they don't have that kind of capital to just carry their business on and on. and the reason the restaurant example is really important, there was a lot of outrage out there saying why do these very successful people get the money? we should really look at this, andrea, in terms of what businesses have been most affected? if you owned mini golf courses across the united states and were wildly successful, should you get the support? well, most likely, yes, because all those mini golf courses would be shut down. it shouldn't be stopped because you are very successful. it would be un-american to say, andrea mitchell can't have the money because she's very successful. what they need to do is figure out who's been hurt the most and how do we get them money there. we shouldn't look at this like we optimize our tax returns. we should look at this like true

disaster relief. >> stephanie ruhle with a reality check. and of course, there is no agreement yet, and there are republicans blocking a unanimous consent vote in the house, so it may take a while to get people back to washington, potentially risking themselves and other contacts, just to have the vote that might take place this week. stephanie, thanks, as always. i know you're going to be staying on top of all of this. and coming up next, as europe's death toll is soaring in the growi inin ining covid-1 why is sweden deciding to stay open for business. and ahead, what the president's war against the world health organization could mean for the neediest nations around the world. ahead of the one campaign responding next on "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us on msnbc. "andrea mitchell repor."ts stay with us on msnbc. at is tha? uh mine, why? it's just that it's... lavender. yes it is, it's for men but i like the smell of it laughs ♪

i wouldn't be here if i thought reverse mortgages, took advantage of any american senior, or worse, that it was some way to take your home. learn how homeowners are strategically using a reverse mortgage loan to cover expenses, pay for healthcare, preserve your portfolio and so much more. a reverse mortgage loan isn't some kind of trick to take your home. it's a loan, like any other. big difference is how you pay it back. find out how reverse mortgages really work with aag's free, no-obligation reverse mortgage guide. with a reverse mortgage, you can pay whatever you can, when it works for you, or, you can wait, and pay it off in one lump sum when you leave your home. discover the option that's best for you. call today and find out more. i'm proud to be a part of aag, i trust em, i think you can too.

today europe has hit a grim milestone, more than 100,000 people have now died across the continent from covid-19. the losses especially staggering in italy and spain. sweden's death toll is higher than its scandinavian neighbors, but sweden, somehow, is taking an unusual approach to the pandemic -- no lockdowns -- schools, gyms, bars remaining open. nbc's bill neely has the story. >> reporter: crisis? what crisis? in sweden, things look almost normal. crowded cafes, restaurants full, playgrounds and streets, too.

sweden's government didn't order a lockdown, preferring a light touch of advising people to socially distance. >> i think it's good, and it's been good. >> i feel safe. >> reporter: sweden is gambling on allowing a slow spread of the virus and more early deaths to avoid future deadly spikes. >> other countries are locking down, but in that case, they will probably see a second wave and a third wave. >> if we did follow that approach, i think we might have 2 million people dead. >> reporter: president trump says sweden's goal is herd immunity, and it's suffering. sweden denies that and says it's being sensible. >> it is a myth that life goes on as normal in sweden. >> reporter: many are horrified at sweden's gamble. >> i'm a scientist. i don't trust authorities. i trust data. >> nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely joins us now from london. bill, the numbers from sweden are really scary because now

sweden has 1,580 deaths. denmark 364. norway 171. sweden is leading the region in terms of the people who have suffered from -- who have died from this disease. how do they justify staying open? >> yeah, i mean, it is a gamble, andrea. and at the minute, it is a deadly gamble. and frankly, we won't know for months or maybe years whether this gamble has paid off. but as you said, sweden, its death rate and its death numbers are higher than its neighbors. remember, sweden has double the population of denmark and norway. but let me give you another set of figures, which might put it at even starker contrast. so, the key thing is deaths per million of population. what's your death rate compared to your population in general? so, in sweden, it's 150 deaths per million of population.

in denmark, it's 60 deaths per million. and in norway, it's 30 deaths per million. by the way, in the u.s., it's 123 deaths per million. so you can see that sweden is ahead of its neighbors and ahead of the u.s. as well. but its gamble is that it will, if you like, accept these high death rates at the beginning in order to prevent those deadly spikes later on. what it doesn't want is, for example, for the economy to restart and then the lockdown to be imposed and firms have to shut down again. it's trying to do this in a very, very gradual way. and actually, the polls, the opinion polls suggest that most swedes do still support this approach. they trust their government. they trust their scientists. not all of them, because actually, like lawyers, scientists disagree as well. and in fact, 2,000 scientists signed a petition saying, hang on a second, this policy, which

president trump has, of course, called herd immunity, we don't like it and we think it's based on faulty data. but as i said at the beginning, andrea, none of us will know which country has got it which country has it right for months or maybe even years and america's aproproach is different than britain which is different than sweden's. >> it is a really high-risk, indeed. thank you for your report today. meanwhile, president trump is claiming that the world health organization failed to warn the u.s. about covid-19 because of a perceived deference to china. but now "washington post" reports that more than a dozen cdc experts were embedded full time in the w.h.o. headquarters in geneva transmitting real-time information about the spread in china to the administration as early as december and then continuing through january and february. joining us now is gale smith, president and ceo of the one campaign, former head of usa

i.d. great to see you, thank you for joining us today. it is, also, of course, complete disconnect between the president now criticizing china and scapegoat china which is clearly not reporting accurate numbers after throughout january and february praising china and praising president xi. what about this attack on the w.h.o., you know the w.h.o. so well. they made mistakes and they weren't as clear cut as they could be. but if you look at the guidance and all the fact checks show that there were strong suggestions as early as january 14th, in some of their briefings, if not their tweets that there was a problem in wuhan that people had to be alerted to. >> right. i think that's right, andrea. i think the other thing we need to remember is that when we are on the other side of this, it's going to be necessary to do a global after action and see how countries performed.

how international institutions performed and plenty of time to look at the facts so that we can plug the holes and be ready for the next one. i think right now, you know, viruses really like it when we're distracted. and i think having a debate right now when the w.h.o. is a critical player in the ongoing response to the pandemic right now today and, in particular, developing countries around the world, africa, asia, latin america are quite dependent on w.h.o. for information, for guidance and for actual support. so, i think it's really good to support the organizationcus o c we have before us, which is winning against this pandemic. >> and there's a lot of other things that the w.h.o. does, ongoing surveillance of polio and other terrible diseases that we're not even discussing when we talk about let's cut off, you know, $400 million, $500 million

annually from the w.h.o. whether or not it's legal and some on the hill say it's not legal to freeze that money. >> here's that, look, at a time like this we need to use all the tools available to us. w.h.o. is delivering assistance right now in addition to providing guidance and surveillance information. so, many of the supplies that are needed, the u.n. proceeds, for example. in africa where we're seeing an increase in the number of cases and all the patterns we've seen else where. the urgency of the moment is to do everything we can to respond globally to this global pandemic. because the fact of the matter is we can't end it somewhere unless we end it everywhere. >> "the guardian" has written that u.s. hostility to the world health organization killed the publication by g-20 health ministers and mandate in coordinating a response to the

global coronavirus pandemic. a six-paragraph statement made no statement of the w.h.o. but systemic weaknesses in the way the world handles pandemic and basically got in the way of a g-7 statement that was supposed to come with the president objecting and mike pompeo also objecting because of the w.h.o. so, it really is hurting a global response that otherwise could be taking place. >> well, i think in pointing to this systemic weakness in the response. one thing we should learn after the ebola epidemic. you should go back and look at where the gaps are. extensive work done on this and huge gaps in the ability of countries to prevent and detect and respond to these kinds of viral threats. i think the other thing is we need the g-7 and the g-20 right now to be focused on the international cooperation we need to make progress against the virus. if it's moving faster than we are, it's winning.

right now it's moving faster than we are. so, while we saw some positive things out of the g-20 and debt to the world's poorest countries, what we need to do is forums for agreement and moving forward and quickly. again, distractions don't help us. the time to look back at how all of us performed is when we're on the other side of this. >> gayle smith, thank you so much. great to see you. thanks for your expertise. i want to pause and take a moment. we want to pause to talk about the lives well lived. lives that were shortened by the coronavirus. after surviving a 38-hour battle in vietnam, which win he was cited for killing 135 to 175 of the enemy and sustaining 18 wounds. sergeant benny atkins earned a bachelor's and two master's degrees on his return and later started an accounting firm that

give scholarship to returning vets. sergeanted adkins received the medal 48 years after returning from vietnam. he was 86 years old when he died on friday in the same hospital where his son is a doctor. reverend rufus mcclendon jr. served at east jersey state prison after a career in teaching in newark public schools. he was 82 years old. and 5-year-old skyler herbert was the responder of first responders in detroit. after complaining about bad headaches she was hospitalized and spent two weeks on a ventilator. she died sunday becoming the youngest covid-19 victim in the state of michigan. and with thoughts of all of them and all the others, that's it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." thank you for being with us. lem.

medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medicare costs, which means you may have to pay for the rest. that's where medicare supplement insurance comes in: to help pay for some of what medicare doesn't. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by united healthcare insurance company might be the right choice for you. a free decision guide is a great place to start. call today to request yours. so what makes an aarp medicare supplement plan unique? well, these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp and that's because they meet aarp's high standards of quality and service. you're also getting the great features that any medicare supplement plan provides. for example, with any medicare supplement plan you may choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. you can even visit a specialist.

with this type of plan, there are no networks or referrals needed. also, a medicare supplement plan goes with you when you travel anywhere in the u.s. a free decision guide will provide a breakdown of aarp medicare supplement plans, and help you determine the plan that works best for your needs and budget. call today to request yours. let's recap. there are 3 key things you should keep in mind. one: if you're turning 65, you may be eligible for medicare - but it only covers about 80% of your medicare part b costs. a medicare supplement plan may help pay for some of the rest. two: this type of plan allows you to keep your doctor - as long as he or she accepts medicare patients. and three: these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. learn more about why you should choose an aarp medicare supplement plan. call today for a free guide.

what is that? uh mine, why? it's just that it's... lavender. yes it is, it's for men but i like the smell of it laughs ♪ and... l(music fades in). hey! -hi! ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

good afternoon, i'm ari melber our special coronavirus coverage. signs of improvement in new york. hospitalizations and intubations and deaths are all down. that's according to governor cuomo signs the spread may be slowing. the number of people testing positive for the coronavirus is