companies have handled this outbreak, despite those two factors, the only factor that both the governor and the company have cited is the fact that a lot of their workers are immigrants who live close together. >> yeah. albert sa maha did phenomenal reporting about this plant. it's one of several that have really bad outbreaks. we want to keep on this story. thank you very much. >> thank you. that is "all in" for this evening. rachel ma doe starts right now. >> thanks my friend. much appreciated. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. i'm happy to have you with us tonight. i would like to start tonight by introducing you to someone. this is hannah blakely. she is a nurse in avon, indiana. >> hi, my name is hannah blakely, and i'm a nurse in avon. i work on a med surge floor that is currently all covid.

i think one of the biggest things for me in the mornings is the car ride over to the hospital. every inch i get closer, the anxiety has gotten bigger. and the anxiety is mostly just from is this the day that i bring covid home to my husband? is this the day that i walk in and my patient is on hospice and their family won't be there with them during their transmission? is this the day, you know, that is the end of my -- my stick. you know, am i going to lose it? is my coworker going to lose it? just remember to stay home. we are fighting for you on the front lines. and the biggest thing you can do is stay home, wash your hands, make sure that you don't end up in my hospital.

>> make sure you don't end up many any hospital. i feel like we're in this moment in terms of media coverage of this crisis where you'd think that everyone off the coasts is not only fine, they're all champing at the bit to wind down efforts from the coronavirus and to keep people from getting sick. i think if you look at american media right now, you might have that impression. the polling doesn't suggest that's what people believe at all. americans by huge proportions recognize that what we're doing right now to slow down the spread of the virus is necessary and prefer that we don't dump those policies too soon and thereby endanger ourselves and put ourselves in even worse shape than we are now. but, you know, don't take it from the polling. don't take it from me. front line health workers across the country are telling this story very, very well themselves about this not being something

that is just on the coasts and this being something that we need to take seriously. whether it's the nurses and health workers and their masks standing silently in front of the fringe traveling trump rally we don't believe in coronavirus protesters that we've seen in a few states, or whether it's them taking time in the middle of this crisis, in the middle of their work days to just tell us what it is that they are dealing with. >> hi. my name is meghan dancy. i just finished a 12-hour day shift on division 9,700. it's one of the med surge divisions here at st. luke's. for about three weeks we've been designated covid unit along with the entire 9th floor here at st. luke's. i've been a nurse for 11 years and i have to say this is something that i've never seen

before. these patients are very sick. they deteriorate quickly. the first shift i had after we were completely designated covid floor, i transferred three of my four patients to the icu to be intubated. these patients were young, about my parents' age. so, that weighed on me personally. they were alone, you know, family or friends -- we have no visitors here right now. these patients are alone and they're trusting us to take care of them. their families are trusting us, and it's scary. i have a 4-year-old, a 6-year-old, and a husband at home. and that's one of my biggest fears. i drove home that night, that first night, and i just cried because i couldn't -- i really couldn't fathom the thought of bringing covid home and exposing

my family to that. that would be something if had an ill outcome, i don't know that i could bear that. that's -- but that's just the reality of where we're at right now. we are here in the middle of the country so we've been able to kind of take some ideas and kind of have a little bit of an idea of what we're going to experience because we've seen on the coast before it came here. but i'm telling you, like, i couldn't fully understand or even -- i couldn't -- i wasn't prepared for what we saw, what we're seeing. it's definitely something new, something we have never seen before. >> just one thing to see it hit first on the coasts like she's saying there. but, a, what that's supposed to do is buy you time to prepare.

and b, seeing it hit somewhere else doesn't necessarily prepare you even as a health care worker for the magnitude of what is coming when it comes. so, that's an rn in missouri. i also want to show you this which i think you should see this. this is from a trauma nurse who was working with coronavirus patients at stony brook university hospital which is on long island outside of new york city. >> i listen to politicians speak on tv, reporters speak on tv. we always have the tv on listening to some sort of news. and all i keep hearing is that the curve is flattening. the curve is flattening, the curve is flattening. it's working. stay at home, stay at home. that may be true, but all the icus are still full. they're full. the sickest people are still there. some people are getting extu baited, but the truth is there are still people on the floors that need to be intubated and come to us.

so, i mean we may have a bed or two available but it's not like we're emptying out. if, you know, if we choose to open too soon, we're going to be at capacity. we've already used our reserves. there's, like, nothing left. we are maxed out. we have these wonderful nurses from syracuse helping us out where we are. if it wasn't for them, we would all be dead. i had a crazy day today. we were super busy. i just -- i just can't imagine what people are thinking. the icus are full. we really can't open. we can't open this country. we can't open the tristate area. that's for sure. none of us in the downstate area of new york can even handle anything more. there's no way. we're full. if you want to live, stay home. my god, don't open up this country. it needs to be closed until at least june, please. >> please. when she talks about the tristate area, she means new

york, new jersey, and connecticut which as of today, those three states alone have had more than 20,000 deaths from coronavirus just between them. three states account for more than 20,000 deaths out of the 44,000 plus deaths that we've had in the country at large. and that is a tragedy for the tristate area. it tells you something about how beleaguered health workers and health resources are in the tri-state area. it tells you something about why. it's also an opportunity for the rest of the country to watch that and learn from it, to use that time of those places going first before it starts to scale up in the rest of the country like that. because the tri-state -- because new york first and then the tri-state area went first, it has been doctors and nurses working in the tri-state area making so many of these first-person recordings about what they're going through and what they're seeing. you're seeing doctors and nurses

in the middle of the country saying don't underestimate this. you see doctors and nurses in the tri-state area where they've been absolutely overtopped saying you need to prepare for how you are going to cope here. they've been trying to let the rest of the country know to not underestimate this thing. it's interesting they've been watching these front line reports day after day after day as they come in, what we're starting to see from people who work in hospitals in the hardest hit areas is that they're trying to let people know first of all patients are incredibly sick and they're incredibly hard to bring back from the brink. but also we're seeing a lot more young people than you might president exam. so, do not feel immune if you are not 60 r 70 or 80 years old. >> a lot of emergencies on both sides of the unit. go from one patient to another. interestingly, a lot of our patients are young with no past

medical history unlike the common knowledge that it only affects older patients with a lot of comorbidities. that's not really what we're observing here. we have a lot of young patients. this patient here who is unfortunately at the verge of being intubate. we're trying to save her. don't be surprised if she's going to be on the ventilator by the end of the day. >> today was a difficult day because we lost two young patients who are under the age of 50. no matter how many times we lose lives in the hospital, especially during this covid-19 crisis, we will never get used to the loss of the young lives. >> we ended up getting a patient in a room that -- i mean, she was basically dying. she was very unstable. we were too worried to move her

upstairs because -- sorry. we were afraid that she would die in the hallway. so, mount sinai has zoom set up where they can bring the ipads in the room, and they get the family on the phones to make a phone call. to say their good-byes over zoom because we're not allowed to have any visitors right now. so, i've never had to see anything like that ever. so, it was pretty tough in that sense. i've never had to see anything like that ever, not having

someone at their side while they're sitting there dying and just watching their blood pressure drop slowly and their oxygen levels drop slowly. it was tough, for sure. >> the volume is down but they're coming in sicker. so, when they come in, they can be to the extreme where they have no pulse already or they're coming in breathing really fast and hypoxic with very low oxygen level and cold and blue, some of them. and this is -- this seems to be the course of covid-19. >> they do come in and they need a lot of work, it's a lot of work and stressful on us. and it's even more stressful when the young patients come in and they don't end up making it. it takes an emotional toll on everyone. it makes us realize that everyone can be affected and

actually kind of scares me a little bit because when i get it there's no telling if i'm going to be a mild case or a serious case. >> the sobering thing is these patients aren't the ones you expect to come in severely affected by covid-19. those cases are especially emotionally taxing because they were previously healthy and had a family and all of a sudden this happens and everything changes in the blink of an eye. >> that's dr. matthew bye who's an er hospital at mount sinai hospital. they are saying take this super seriously. people are super sick by the time they get to us. and do not feel immune if you are not an older person. we are seeing lots of people including younger people without comorb comorbidities. you see health workers saying take this more seriously than you are.

the workers that are in the areas hardest hit are broadcasting that not only to us, the public, across the country but to their fell he health workers in other places in the country that haven't been hit that hard yet telling them what's coming. but that last doctor, as i said, works at mount sinai in queens. queens and the bronx, both neighborhoods in new york city, they're both part of the 14th congressional in new york represented by the high profile freshman congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. her district may be the hardest hit district in the whole country, at least for now. congressman ocasio-cortez is going to join us live in just a moment tonight. one of the things that she has been advocating for from the federal government is more direct support for nursing homes including hard-hit nursing homes in her district. when new york state started releasing data a few days ago about the worst hit nursing homes in the state, that list

included the kings harbor multicare center in the bronx. the state says that 45 americans have died from coronavirus at that long term care facility already, 45 deaths. the congresswoman's district is home to these two nursing homes where 12 americans have died at the home on the left in the bronx and where 15 americans have died at the one on the right in queens. so, we're going to talk with congresswoman ocasio-cortez about what it means right now to be representing such a hard, hard, hard hit district and what the federal government, what congress is trying to do in terms of its newest relief bill. i should also mention though the congresswoman also has rikers island in her district, the huge new york city jail where nearly 10% of the roughly 4,000 prisoners held there have tested positive. that alone is a stand alone crisis in the crisis that is new york city. but we are seeing some of the largest outbreaks all across the

country turn up in jails and in prisons including the largest outbreak known anywhere in the country which is right now at the marion correctional institution in ohio. at that one state prison in ohio, they've got 1,950 confirmed cases among prisoners. that's 78% of the prisoners in that facility have coronavirus. last night we also mentioned a huge new outbreak in arkansas. notably in arkansas, there is no stay-at-home order thanks to republican governor asa hutchinson. they announced more cases. the new cases bring the total to 850 known positive cases in that one prison with more test results still to come in there. still though, somehow this kind of news which we're seeing escalating day after day now all across the country, nowhere is safe, somehow this kind of news

translates in national politics into president trump closing down immigration for 60 days. since that will surely protect america from coronavirus. you know, i don't mean to oversimplify here, but it's not like we're getting it from other places at this point, right? i mean, america is the largest coronavirus disaster in the world by a million miles. these are the top five largest outbreaks on earth. number five is germany with just under 150,000 cases as of today. number four is france, just under 160,000 cases. number three is italy, number two is spain with just over 200,000 cases. and then there's u.s., usa, usa with over 800,000 cases now. we have more coronavirus cases than all of the other top five countries combined. according to the covid tracking project, our single day death toll hit a new record high today in the united states.

in the past 24 hours, 2,674 americans are reported to have died from coronavirus which means we are losing one american every 32 seconds to this virus as of today. but sure, stop immigration into the united states. that will surely cure what ails us. yeah, surely it's foreigners and not us who have this problem. i mean, if you want to see the dynamic that's actually at work in the biggest coronavirus disaster on earth right now which is our country, this actually shows -- this is from group topus which we've talked about in terms of data visualization. this shows how coronavirus spread across the country, cases per capita by county day after day. this is what's happening with the american coronavirus outbreak. but sure, stop immigration from other countries. that at least sounds great to

the president. the front page of the "omaha world herald" today in nebraska where republican governor says there's no need for a stay-at-home order, everything's fine. the front page of the biggest paper in omaha today is a main story about how all the meat packing plants in nebraska are becoming coronavirus clusters, one after the other. the western reserve meat processing plant in hastings, nebraska. the costco chicken plant. the local mayor has pleaded for a stay-at-home order and the local hospital is maxing out. smithfield pork plant in creek, nebraska, eye tyson plant in dakota city, nebraska. locals telling the world that even workers testing positive at the plants aren't able to get their own family members tested for the virus even when they themselves have tested positive. and they've been living with their family when is they come home from work every day.

but yeah, no stay-at-home order in nebraska because everything will be fine. surely that little problem they've got in all the meat packing plants will stay right there inside the meat packing plants. nothing a little deep cleaning can't fix. sure it will be fine. last night we reported on a big shopping mall outside omaha, nebraska. happens to be run by a major donor. that mall as we reported last night announced it was going to reopen its stores next week. we're reopening america, reopening the economy. drive on out. come shopping at a mall in nebraska come hell or high water, why not? today that mall announced that maybe they're not going to do that. they are walking back their plan to open up this week. in south dakota where more than 760 employees from one pork processing plant in sioux falls

are now confirmed to have coronavirus, the governor of south dakota says she's not even planning to try to get testing for the other people who work at that same plant. 760 plus cases among people who work at that plant, not to mention all of the dozens of cases that have been found among their family members already. but they're not planning on testing the other people who work at the plant? and there's still no stay-at-home order in south dakota because everything's fine. state is planning on holding a big car racing event with a big live audience just outside the city on saturday night. woo-hoo. they're thinking they'll have 700 people in the stands. the governor is insisting everything is fine, there doesn't need to be a statewide order in south dakota so, see you at the races, see you there. governor of south dakota,

govern governor noem says that's not a great idea but she's not doing anything to stop it because she doesn't want to. they are, as i said, expecting a huge crowd. in georgia, the georgia governor's plans to rip the lid off and reopen everything including tattoo parlors and massage parlors and nail salons and dine in restaurants, that plan from brian kemp turns out is a plan the governor announced without consulting the rest of his supposed state coronavirus task force. he also apparently didn't even run it by the largest cities in his state, the mayors of which were totally blindsided by this order from governor kemp. now the mayor of atlanta is left asking atlanta residents to please ignore what the governor's doing, please ignore the governor saying all these businesses should be open, please just pretend he's not doing that. the leadership shown in this country by elected officials in

washington and in the states that are pretending this isn't really happening or it's not a big deal, that's what's given us so far the run away largest coronavirus epidemic on earth. and more than 44,000 americans dead, more than 2,600 americans dying just in the past day. and for the u.s. death numbers being so unimaginably high right now, you cannot put the blame on new york. new york's death numbers are finally coming down. the spike in american deaths today is what it looks like when we see the rest of the country's death numbers coming up now. and americans are dying fastest in the nursing homes, and they're getting infected the fastest, it appears, in the prisons and jails and in large workplaces and states with lax responses and lax protections. new york went into the deep water first. new york and then the tri-state area, their doctors and nurses, their politicians even have been

trying to warn the rest of the country about what was coming. well, now here it is. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez representing the worst hit congressional district joins us live next. confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. to ewhether you'reting these uncaring for your.

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>> any my district and in new york city and in our community, we have had more deaths than 9/11, multiple times of 9/11 have happened in the time since congress has recessed. so, i'm not here with the luxury of time. i need legislation that is going to save peoples' lives. and the fact that republicans do not want to have recurring payments, the fact that republicans don't want to fund states and cities, the fact that republicans don't want to guarantee peoples' health care is unacceptable to me. >> joining us now live is congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez with the great

state of new york. her district includes portions of the bronx and queens. of all congressional districts in the country, hers appears to be the hardest hit in terms of the impact of the virus. i know you have a lot on your plate. thank you so much for making time to be with us tonight. >> of course. thank you for having me. >> i can tell from looking at the hospitals in your district and right on the border of your district, the hard-hit nursing homes in your district, i can tell from looking at the overall borough by borough numbers how many of your constituents are suffering. can you tell us more about what your constituents are telling you, what they're asking of you? >> their requests are absolutely reflecting how dire the situation is getting, and they're also reflecting the lack of adequate federal response. you know, two, three weeks ago, people were concerned about unemployment.

they were concerned about stimulus checks. but now that rent payments have gone out, now that we have another rent payment around the corner on may 1st is asking about food assistance. people are scared to leave their homes. there are people that are scared to answer the door when food does come because we're getting reports of continued i.c.e. activity throughout this pandemic. so, what we're really starting to see is people going from i don't know how to pay my rent to i don't know how i'm going to eat next month because 43% of americans right now have either had their incomes dramatically reduced or completely ended overall. and this crisis, that aspect of a crisis is a choice, and it is a choice that republicans are affirmatively making right now by denying people the recurring payments and the amount of aid that people need. and when it comes to the health impacts that we have right now,

we still need ppe. you know, hospitals, thankfully we're starting to get to the levels that are necessary, but we still have home health aids . we still have nursing homeworkers. we have plenty of people who provide assistance that are not necessarily in a hospital or clinic but are going into the homes of vulnerable people and the elderly that do not feel that they have the support or the assistance that they need right now. >> i hear you in terms of the home health aides and people who are working in health assistance paraprofessional roles that's absolutely key in terms of those folks not being protected. we are also seeing in nursing homes and long term care facilities these incredible numbers. i know you've had dire circumstances in terms of the death rates with some nursing homes in your district. that's one of the things you have advocated for there to be more of a federal response on. what do you want to see the

federal government do when it comes to those congregate care facilities, long-term care nursing homes. what do you think they should be doing? >> we need to really get in the weeds and start digging into reimbursement and medicare reimbursement, medicaid reimbursement to make sure that people are able to access all of the care that is necessary and so that those facilities can provide as much of the care as necessary for everybody in need right now, covid patients and non-covid patients that are in these facilities. you know, early on i was even hearing and seeing on the way that these reimbursement rules are drafted, even folks who are able to offer telemedicine early on in this still had to physically show up in a clinic in order to provide telemedicine because the reimbursement for those services was only eligible

if the person showed up to the clinic even though they would be able to do the same work from home. so, a lot of this has to do with how the federal government reimburses some of this work. a lot of it also just has to do with some of the other factors that we have to contend with right now. we have a broken health care system that is very disjointed that nickel and dimes people. and we're in the midst of a pandemic where someone could come in with a pneumonia but because they didn't have the ability to access a covid test, they have to jump through certain hoops whether it's through paid sick leave or whether it's through, you know, what kind of health care you can get, it's very difficult for people to make sure that they get the whole-person care that they need because our current rules are putting up a lot of red tape. so, what we need to do is dramatically expand medicare so that it covers peoples' health care costs and so that it covers

the cost of the uninsured. we also need to make sure that we're caring for peoples' economic situation. and these aren't unrelated because when people are able to safely feel like they will be able to pay next month's rent, then they will stay inside. but if people are scared that they are going to be evicted, foreclosed on, or have any other sort of life-altering economic event, they are starting to go outside and trying to expose -- and trying to find work and exposing themselves to unnecessary risk because they are flightenrightened about the instability of their economic situation. >> there is going to be a bill that's expected to be voted on the day after tomorrow. and i know that you've been critical and very outspoken about the fact we ought to be talking about things like recurring payments to people, not just individual stimulus-style checks.

you've talked about the reforms you want to see as well. and i am quite sure that that bill does not meet what you think it ought to meet in terms of the immediate needs of the american public right now and your constituents. but do you plan on voting for it? do you have -- do you know if it's going to be better than nothing at this point in terms of whether it's going to earn your vote? >> yes, you know, we're just -- the final text was not ready for the majority of this week. we're hearing that it just rolled out from the senate and we're starting to pour over it. but i think what we really need to realize is that this small bill, while something may be better than nothing, it is happening in the context of congress having gone on recess for a month. we are going to pass a small potatoes bill, and then we are talking about recessing again until may 4th. and if we are going to bring

every member or call back almost every member who can back to d.c. to pass a small incremental bill with the knowledge that we are not coming back until next month again, that's two rent checks. and the last time we left, again, we lost over one 9/11 worth of people due to this lack of action. so, we really need to acknowledge that this small bill while again something is better than nothing and frankly democrats fought very, very hard to get basic things like testing. republicans didn't want to fund hospitals. they didn't want to fund mass testing which is what is actually going to allow us to reopen the economy. so, i appreciate the strife they made in that. but ultimately in voting on the

text of this bill knowing that congress is -- we are abdicating our responsibility. we haven't legislated for a month, and thousands of people are dying. thousands of people are dying every day. and we aren't going -- and we're talking about coming back. and every time we pass one of these bills, we're hearing that the real solution is coming in the next bill and then the next bill and the next bill. and at some point we have to raise our hands and say when is the solution coming because two months of rent are going to pass by before we're actually even entertaining a real bill. and people -- we're talking about a mass -- we're talk about the scope of mass displacement in the united states of america. we are also talking about major cities, new york city, los angeles, chicago laying off almost every city worker or large -- thousands of city workers and essentially only keeping certain personnel. we're talking about laying off first responders and police officers because we aren't

getting state and municipal funding. so, i appreciate when in congress we say we're going to get to it, but we need to get to it in time. and that is ultimately the issue that we have. and so i'm reading the text, but we cannot just throw our hands and say that this is someone else's problem or that we're going to get to it eventually. because if we pass a relief bill next year we're going to be paying for morgues. if we pass relief bill now we'll be paying for prevention. that's the difference. >> congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez in new york. thank you for making time for being with us tonight. in terms of what's going on in your district and what you think the country needs to know, come back any time. we would love to have you any time you want to be here. >> of course. thank you so much. >> all right. thank you. all right. coming up next we've got a bit of a scoop.

despite very, very happy talk from an important government agency, we've got ahold of internal documents that shows how a very dire situation has been papered over by the trump administration. we'll show you the receipts next. (announcer) in this world where people are staying at home,

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nurses protesting outside the atlanta va medical center a few days ago over having to work despite a lack of protective gear to keep themselves from getting infected. va medical center workers around the country have been saying that they're being ordered to ration and recycle ppe like masks which is putting them at greater risk for getting coronavirus on the job. you can see the sign this one woman is holding. it says "say no to one mask per week." sounds dire, right? one mask per week? no medical system in the u.s. has what it needs in terms of protective equipment. for weeks we've been hering

about dire shortages in the country's va facilities and that's worrying because va facilities are responsible for the care of more than 9 million american veterans, a majority of whom are older and at increased risk when it comes to coronavirus. for the times we've been seeing these reports, the va leadership is insisting all is well and people are complaining for no reason because the va and all its workers have everything they need. when "the wall street journal" reported that internal documents show rationing ppe, a spokesperson said the premise is false. all employees who need ppe have it. that may be the line from the va, but i can also prove to you that that is absolutely not the situation on the ground. we obtained an email sent to employees at the va medical center in charleston, south carolina. it has to do with the face mask policy in effect at that

facility. va workers are separated into two groups. the first is priority group one, those at high risk of exposure. here's the face mask guidance for the priority one employees. quote, employees caring for covid-19 positive patients not undergoing high risk procedures will receive five face masks as a two-week supply. the patient should be encouraged to put on a face mask when someone enters their room. the employees' face masks are reusable between patients. those priority one employees are encouraged to store their own masks in their paper bags when they're not using them. but again those are the lucky employees because va says they're at high risk, so they each get a grand total of five masks to last two weeks. as for priority group two, va workers who work in outpatient care or as screeners of these facilities or folks who work at

community-based outpatient clinics, here's the guidance for them. they'll be issued one mask per week in the paper bag. at the end of the week, store the mask in a bag. the two weeks will be a four week supply. each mask reused for a second week. like their colleagues in the priority one high risk pool, the priority two employees are encouraged to keep their masks in paper bags when they're not using them. the highest risk medical workers get five masks to last two weeks. the second group of employees, they get two masks that are supposed to last them a month. use one for a second. use the second one for a week then go back to the first one for the third week, then use the -- we asked that facility

for comment to see if this policy is still in place. they forwarded us to the national press offense for the department of veterans affairs where that spokesperson told us in part, quote, va is currently adhering to cdc's contingency policy for use. va's ppe practices are keeping employees safe. the numbers prove it. the spokesperson says there is no va-wide guidance categorizing staff by priority groups. i guess we know that means there's no standard guidance across the board when it coms to face masks, just depends on which part of the enormous va you work for. the sheer scale of the va makes this a problem. the failure to get the equipment needed in the hands of caregivers right now. we're hearing that from va workers picketing and protesting outside their workplaces so

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this is the first big scoop almost two weeks ago. the headline, veterans affairs hospital facing serious short an of protective gear, internal memos show. meanwhile, publicly the va was saying everything was fine. one health care professional told "the wall street journal," "the fear is palpable" when he

kept reporting on this, as a line of inquiry. and then just a few days ago, he got the va secretary himself to finally acknowledge the problem, "in a better situation, would we have more supplies available? yes, but we are competing with the rest of the country." joining us now is "the wall street journal" reporter who has been driving the heck out of this story. thanks for your reporting on this issue so far. >> thanks for having me. >> the thing that i find remarkable about this story and what you have reported is not that va has had a hard time putting together enough ppe to protect all of their medical staff. that does not surprise me. sadly, i'm disappointed and worried about it, but not surprised. what i'm surprised about is there's this huge disconnect with that fact on the ground and all this happy talk that the va has been spreading about it, trying to say it's fine and there's no problem. that's at least the impression i've had. but i wanted to ask whether that lines up with your impression as

you have pursued this line of inquiry. >> it lines up exactly with what i've been reporting. talking to doctors and nurses, providers on the ground, they understand there's shortages. the nation is facing a shortage in ppe, from masks to gowns to face shields to everything. since the va is part of the national medical system, they're going to be facing shortages. doctors and nurses just want that to be honestly conveyed to them. until recently, the va was not saying that there were any shortages. every time i would reach out for comment, i would be told that the premise of my question is wrong, and that i -- and that there was plenty of gear. there were no shortages. >> i know that a lot of your reporting has been based on internal memos circulated among top level va employees. so they have this public facing line that everything is fine,

but at the highest level of the agency, they're circulating memos very concerned about rationing in order to try to spread minimal ppe around this huge workforce. obviously, i'm not asking you to compromise or characterize your sources, but is it fair for those of us reading your reporting to draw the conclusion that there are a lot of people at the va, including high level people at the va who see value in having this information out there, despite the fact that it contradicts the official line from the agency? >> yes. in a word, yes. and the folks who were providing these -- providing a view into these memos, they want to make sure that this contradiction is pointed out, that it's shown that the va just needs to step forward and say hey, we don't have all the supplies we need. we understand that. we're going to have to use crisis level de facto rationing

of equipment, and we were working to get more equipment, but we don't have it. and doctors and nurses, the folks who are seeing -- who are part of this system seeing these memos, just want that to be honestly conveyed. until recently, it hasn't been conveyed. and it's only in the past couple of days the va leadership has really stepped out and started doing more broader media appearances and talking about the fact that there is not as the secretary puts it, optimal levels of ppe. and that the department is going through 130,000 some masks a day, and you're going to run up hard against shortages when you do that. and they're now coming out and saying the messaging could have been better. we could have talked about this more. we could have just told people that we were in the same boat as the rest of the nation. >> ben kesling, your reporter has forced them to be more

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that is going to do it for us tonight. now it is time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. maybe we now know why no one from the va is a regular participant in those white house press briefings. boy, do i wish to be a question in tomorrow's briefing about what you were reporting tonight. >> i will tell you that our own beloved colleague stephanie ruhle has managed to score an interview with va secretary willky