done. what the hell does he think his job is? the people should understand that he knows what he's doing. he initially said this is is going to go away in the warm weather. i mean, look. franklin roosevelt world war ii said, look, the american people can handle anything. but you've got to tell them the truth. and he doesn't tell them the truth. >> former vice president joe biden last night. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, april 22nd. along with joe, willie and me we have white house reporter for "the associated press" jonathan lemire. over 40,000 americans have died from the coronavirus in just over one month's time. and yet the director of the cdc is warning the expected second wave later in the year could be even worse as some states announce plans to reopen. robert redfield tells "the washington post" a second wave of coronavirus could be worse because it could coincide with the start of the flu season next

winter. he discussed the strain that to sim mule tainous out breaks could put on the system. he called protests to lift stay-at-home orders, quote, not helpful. yesterday the president was asked what happens if the virus makes a comeback after social distancing guidelines are relaxed. >> i would say that you keep away until this thing is gone. it's going to be gone at some point. it's going to be gone, gone. and i would say you keep away and you do the social distancing until such time as you know it's gone. we'll know when that time is. >> well. >> it's gone, okay. need a vaccine. >> well, listen, willie -- >> 18 months. >> -- there has seemed over the past few days the president, again, all over the place. but deferring more to his

medical advisers. it is -- it is interesting, though, that yesterday the cdc and thank god for it, the cdc came out and did warn about that second wave that we've heard others and anthony fauci and others worry about because the next wave could be far deadlier because it coincides with flu season, it will strain hospital resources more, but you just really hope and you've got to believe that a lot of the people that we're seeing on tv every night, the doctors and others, and even the president understand that we can't get caught off guard again and that, yes, the fall may be worse even than what we've experienced this spring. >> yeah, that was a very sobering interview, a sobering statement from the cdc drittire who said let's pump the brakes

on the celebration and the it's going to be gone, gone talk from the president of the united states. and also, perhaps, a rebuttal to the rush to get everybody back into the workplace, which as we've said a million times, we understand, we want everybody go to work too. but if you go back too soon, you run the risk of this coming back and back again. and even so, if we continue our social distancing, the cdc director warned this winter could be a bad one with, as you said, the sort of convergence of the flu and coronavirus at the same time. so happy talk, optimism on the one hand. this is going to be gone gone. science, doctors, cdc director saying not so fast. >> so, joe, just we've been saying it from the beginning because the science doesn't change. the president's message might change. the politics of this might change. he might push people. but the science doesn't. the virus is deadly. it doesn't care, you know, what color you are, what political

background you have, and it attacks people in sometimes very mysterious ways. sometimes this virus can be carried from person to person without them having symptoms. the virus is very dangerous, that hasn't changed. it will take 18 months, that hasn't changed, to get a vaccine, okay. so we're not at testing and the president refuses to put the full force of the government behind testing. so we don't have a roadmap to get through it. so here's the deal with his grand reopening, he likes to talk about it like it being a celebration. people aren't going to go pouring back into streets and pouring back into coffee shops and pouring back into stores. they may never go to stores again, actually. some stores may not make it through this because they were already competing like book stores, with online purchases. and other businesses, if they do open, joe, it's going to be piecemeal, six feet apart, long lines. they're not going to be able to have as many people in their businesses. >> right. >> the money is not going to

come pouring back in. they're going to suffer and struggle even when we, quote, reopen. >> well, a lot to talk about there. at first, i hope, and i am hopeful here, that scientists, medical community, nurses, doctors, hospitals, and, yes, governors and some leaders on the federal level and hopefully even president trump in some areas have learned some lessons over the past three months, have learned not to undersell this. the president with his liberate tweets, what he's even finding out a few days later is polling shows that stance really hurting him with seen jurnior citizens blue collar workers. it's hurting him in wisconsin and swing states. so going for the 8%, you know, the 13 people and 4 hound dogs

that hang out at the michigan state capital may not be the best way to win an election in the fall. so i'm hopeful that -- that, you know, we are an exceptional country. we are the exceptional country. there, i said it, when it comes to science whether it comes to medicine, when it comes to research, when it comes to technology, when it comes to nobel prizes. we can do this. i'm hopeful that everybody's listening to dr. fauci and understands this fall could be worse if, again, if we don't lean into this. if we're not ready. we can prepare. and what's going to be critical is we've got to work in a way where we learn to live with this deadly pandemic. >> that's right. >> we figure out how to work with this deadly pandemic. because people have to go back to work. and jonathan lemire, i saw yesterday even when americans go back to work, things are going

to be different. "the new york times" reporting that the niemann markus group is not far away from filing for bankruptcy. it's one of the strongest retailing chains, one of the most glittering retail chains as the times said in america. there's going to be even after america goes back to work, massive displacement. so i know that there are a lot of trumpists, some of the more radical elements that are trying to make this a red state versus blue state thing. i'm not being pollyannish when i say this, we're all in this together. the economic displacement, the pain that every family's going to feel in america, even after america goes back to work, is going to be massive. we are never going to be the same again. can we rebound like we did after 2008? 2009? yeah, we can rebound.

but, man, it is going to be difficult. we still are in the middle of, like, two competing forces, both of them devastating to this country. and it's going to require us all coming together to get through it. >> there's no question about that, joe. and certainly there is this urge across this nation to have things go back to normal, to be able to take your kid to school or to go out shopping or go to restaurant or go to a ball game. but that is going to be hard to do for a really long time. that cdc warning was, indeed, as willie said, sobering. as bad as things are now and across the nation, people i think are still coming to grips with this death total, which is of course only going to keep going up in the weeks ahead. to think that there could be another wave, a more deadly wave coming this fall and winter when combined with the flu season, i think that you're going to have a lot of reluctance for americans to really set forth back into stores or bars or restaurants. you know, the new habits are

being formed, people are buying things online. we're seeing the economic devastation here. "the new york times" had a piece over the weekend about how devastating it could be to new york city which has been the epicenter of this outbreak and comparing it potentially to the aftermath of the 1970s when things were really tough in new york or in the immediate wake after september 11th. in the '70s in particular, things changed a year or two overnight and it took decades for them to build back where they were and suggested this would be even harder slog this time around. the papers are full of beloved institutions that are closing and aren't going to be able to come back. and for the nation to make thaef for the ba that effort back, every day it's going to need more testing and national testing. that's why staying with new york, governor cuomo traveled to the white house and talked to president trump to try connect with him and make the case for the president's hometown and for new york and how it is suffering and how in order for people to make that return to normalcy, they need to have confidence

they can go back into the workplace and not get sick. because, as we know, so many people may have the virus but are asymptomatic and spread it to others. the governor said that he and the president egreed agreed to to increase the test bug we need to follow through on that. 40,000 tests, a far cry from what this state needs and that needs to be replicated all across the country. >> mika, every day at 5:30 americans are hearing a mixed message. on the one hand the president is saying liberate, liberate, liberate, let's get people back to work, let's pull back on some of these stay-at-home orders. on the other hand, if that sound bite we just listened to he said the only way this is going to be gone gone, he said, is if you observe social distancing. if we continue to have these policies in place that keep us away from each other. so there's a big mixed message. i think you're exactly right when you say this is going to be up to the people. i was talking to friends all across the state of georgia yesterday who said on one hand they were happy to get their

business open and go back to work. first of all, they were surprised by the announcement as were all the mayors, they didn't know it was coming from the governor. but they said we're not ready to go back. people are scared go into a store or restaurant. the government from the top can open the economy, but it's up to the people to decide when they're ready to open it themselves. >> all right. we continue to see small pockets of people protesting the stay-at-home orders, though. in north carolina, hundreds of people frustrated with governor roy cooper's stay-at-home order marched yesterday around his home demanding he cancel it and reopen the state's economy. they were seen on the streets carrying placards and banners and chanting as they gathered in a parking lot before being es indicated by police motorcycles to walk through streets downtown, including those surrounding the executive mansion. and in wisconsin, republican

lawmakers filed a lawsuit against democratic governor tony e evers. last week he ordered most nonessential businesses to remain closed until may 26th, even though the original order was set to end on friday. you'll recall it was wisconsin's republican lawmakers who also insisted on scenes like this, crowded voting lines in milwaukee, wisconsin, earlier this month after those republican assembly members refused to move that state's primary. now the city's health commissioner has identified seven people who appear to have contracted covid-19 through activities related to the election. six of the reported cases were found in voters as well as one poll worker. by the end of this week, officials hope to have additional information on cases found since april 7th, including potential deaths linked to

overwhelming voter turnout at the city's five polling stations. >> you know, it's -- >> good lord. >> these wisconsin republicans again. you would think that they would learn by now. i mean, they're doing everything they can to make sure donald trump is defeated in the fall, that he loses wisconsin in the fall. i mean, they even got a liberal judge elected because of their stupidity and their shortsightedness and their recklessness. and they're still at that time again. i don't know, maybe -- maybe joe biden's campaign is paying the head of the republican party in wisconsin. i don't know. but, i mean, as willie said, with his small business owners, i'm hearing the same thing and you're hearing the same thing from small business owners, we know that they understand that probably by the end of this week, maybe by the middle of next week more people will have died in a month or so of this

virus than died in 20 years in vietnam, 15 years in vietnam. we're at 44,000 now. we're going to get to 57,000, sadly, if you just look at the arc of the cases. tragically i don't think there's any way to avoid it. i play every night that -- that we don't get there, that we bend the curve. that people stop dying. but right now it looks like that's where it's going. and you have the cdc director now warning about things actually possibly getting worse in the fall. well, you know, we talk a lot about the 1918 pandemic. the 1918 pandemic, for all those people out in the streets protesting, they may want to know that it was so deadly not because of the first wave in the spring, but because of the wave in the fall. the second wave in the fall

is -- is what was so deadly. it was even deadlier than the first wave. that's what we're having to prepare for. so, i mean, give me liberty or give me death, you know, yeah, very, very strong statement. sadly, in this case, a lot of people are being given death and the recklessness doesn't help. and it's important to note that the protests that you're seeing in some states, obviously in democratic states, isn't that interesting, that a democratic governor and a republican governor will have the same policies but these protests usually just make it in democratic states, it does appear to be just a fringe movement, at least for now. but as donald trump is catering to that fringe, he, as i said, he's undercutting his support. and i've said this. he's hurting himself with key groups that are going to be critical to him getting

re-elected. you know that question was actually raised by the "washington post," graying sarge greg sargent and the numbers back him up. yoof a new number say that support has dropped 20% since last month. 20% since last month. it's evident in specific policies. listen to this, because it's the seniors who as we've been saying here, who are going to die in there are reckless policies pushed in georgia or in washington, d.c. or any where. 75% of workers say that nonessential workers should not be allowed to move freely outside for social activities or work. just 16% disagreed. the national journal pointed out that seniors are, quote, counting on the president to

protect them as a particularly precarious moment. it trump's desire to quickly reopen the economy ends up backfiring they'll be the first to abandon him and deal his re-election prospects a krim crippling blow. we've been warning the president and hoping he would do the right thing and follow medical advice instead of listening to 8% of crack pots who want fauci fired. anyway, so joe biden right now leads donald trump 52 to 43% among senior citizens, according to the latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll. again, that's another huge swing. a 16 point swing from hillary clinton lost seniors by seven points donald trump in the 2016 election, as greg sargent writes for the "washington post," trump's effort to turn the coronavirus into a full blown culture war that divides the country whose benefit appears to suffer from a very serious

deficiencies that's eluded his notice thus far. willie, this guy, i mean, he's not dumb. he -- when it comes to politics he's got g have to know that if larry kudlow's saying we've got this dinecontained, g back to work, everything's fine, steven moore's saying if people die, if people on news stations that he's watching seem to put forward the argument, you know what? it's nothing more than the flu. or you know what? let people get back to work. two%, 3% mortality rate, it happens. they have to know that it's supporters of donald trump and it's donald trump himself when he's talking about, quote, liberating people from medicine and science and protecting greatest generation, they've got

to know it's their lives that are being put on the line by reckless policies. doesn't -- this is -- this is not a rhetorical question. like, doesn't he understand that? >> well, he understands polls, he understands ratings. he understands a list of numbers that shows how he's doing. that's the one thing can he respond to. and he does respond to and he does talk about all the time. he, of course, won seniors in 2016. they were one of the groups that propelled him to victory over hillary clinton. he cannot afford to lose them if he wants to be re-elected in 2020. but for all the reasons you just laid out, they are turning on him. it turns out, when members of the republican party are saying, well, it's the lesser of two evils, we might have to lose a whole bunch of sooniors to get o seniors to get our country back to work, seniors aren't going to respond well to that and seniors understand, seniors understand how grave and serious this problem is and how vulnerable they are to it. they don't like the sound of people running around the

country and contracting the disease and passing the disease on. so he does, he knows about poll numbers and when he sees a 20-point swing just in the last month, that's something he's going to respond to. let's bring in white house correspondent for pbs news hour, yamiche. yamiche, we were just discussing the president and seniors. we're discussion his relationship to polls and how much he watches them. what do you think he makes of these new numbers that show seniors as they watch this play out just over the last month have begun to run from him? >> i think the president is understanding of the fact that he has to have some senior voters, especially senior voters in the swing states that put him over the edge because his win over hillary clinton was just so narrow. i remember thinking about the fact that the president was at one point going after mail-in voting, going really hard saying without any evidence that there was all sorts of mail fraud if people mailed in their ballots.

then he paused and said at the same time i want to make sure we understand that seniors and military members should still be able to mail in their ballots through absent tee ballots. he understands that seniors are a part of the critical group he needs to go after. if we can push it out farther, i would say in watching the president the last couple of days, what we've seen that is that these white house briefings have increasingly turned into campaign style events and the president is very understanding of the fact that this is the only way he's able to communicate with the american people. we've started to see him to do interesting things. the first thing i would point out is he's starting to say that talking about testing is somehow a permanesonal attack against h i posed that question to him and he said it's not a personal attack on me but people are talking about this because they want to take me down politically and they're thinking about the november election as they think about testing. which is a critical thing that americans everywhere, republicans an democrats, they

all want testing to be expanded. it's critical to reopening the government. but the president is so aware of the fact that it's part -- that's part of his re-election campaign and part of something that might hurt him that he's really now trying to push off testing completely to a state issue and not really taking any sort ever responsibility for the testing issues that are so ongoing. >> well, you know, jonathan lemire, you look at, you know, yamiche brought up the mail-in ballots. that's yet another example of donald trump who has always been able to read an audience. donald trump is on the -- man, he's on the wrong side of the american people on just about every issue is here. you talk about mail-in ballots and bbc news and "wall street journal" poll out showed a majority, i think 55%, 56%, 57% of americans support mail-in ballots, expansive mail-in ballots. you talk about these movements to reopen the governments, reopen the states, reopen

businesses before these medical guidelines are met that the white house themselves put out. the overwhelming majority of americans, the overwhelming majority of americans are against this. donald trump and some of his sycophants in the media are suggesting it's just medical doctors and people in the media who are spouting this. this is the same bs that they were saying back in february that the coronavirus was being hyped up and the hyping was a hoax by the media. as we've been saying every day, americans, you can lie about robert mueller, people are like, whatever, i got to get my kids ready for school, i got to go to work and may pay pay my lease t month. but when you're lying about their health and they've got a doctor to call and they've got friends that have recently gob

to nursi gone to nursing homes and people are dying and it's spreading all over the place and they're reading stories and seeing stories of bodies being found in new jersey nursing homes, in brooklyn nursing homes and they understand that could be them, you can't -- you can't lie your way out of that. so you follow donald trump for a very long time. he always seems to be able to read his audience. how is he missing this? and i'm just talking politically. we've criticized him nonstop about not listening to his doctors enough. but how is he missing this politically? how could he screw up so badly with senior citizens? like one of his most important groups, that there's a 20-point swing against him and that joe biden is now beating him by almost double digits among

seniors. how could he be hurting himself among blue collar voters? like, how -- where's his blind spot coming from, jonathan? >> the president, as you say, joe, usually does know how to read a room. he usually does know how to read a poll. but he is -- he is missing some stuff here and people around him are growing concerned because you're right, it's one thing to say -- to dismiss an investigation as partisan or product of the deep state or as fake news. but it's very different when you have to sell americans, and not just your base, which official obviously he spends a lot of time focusing on. but the democrats, independents, those who held him nose and gave him a chance last time he'll need again this time around, it's hard to convince them to down play this when, as you say, they know someone at a nursing home who is sick or they've lost a job or even just their favorite restaurant went out of business. and it's -- this is a very different matter. and we wrote over the weekend

taking an early look at some of these battleground states that are going to zhi electidecide t election and the coronavirus and how it's impacting and one of the things we looked as watt president's starting to lose support of seniors. we know how important those are in a few states in particular. trump campaign advisers that we've talked to privately are deeply concerned about michigan, which they thought was of those three states in the midwest that he flipped last time around was always going to be the hardest to hold. at this point because he's had a fight with the governor there, i know we're seeing some protests in lansing, but there's deep concern with the unemployment there, the surge of cases around, of coronavirus cases around detroit that michigan may already be slipping away. wisconsin's another. two other states, florida, of course, we're seeing outbreaks there, you know, the questions about how the governor's handled things. that's why the president is sort of out of nowhere tweeted about the villages, the large retirement community there in florida, offering words of support. that was done with an i've

trying to buck up some of the senior citizens reporting. and one more state, arizona which also of course has a large number of senior citizens, we looked over the weekend and we've reported on it, that state also, according to trump advisers, is getting very, very close. joe biden and democrats feel good about their chances to play there. and if they can flip arizona, the democrats, that decreases their need to flip the states in the upper midwest. >> all right. and, joe, i mean, it's the one trick pony thing. it worked in new york city, this branding, this constant changing, the jumping around. it worked on mueller and ukraine. it's not going to work on a pandemic that's killing people. >> we've been saying it, willie, nonstop and speaking of mueller, we, of course, have the news from the republican senate intel committee. >> that's right. >> -- that we're going to be bringing you that undercuts all of his arguments about the fbi. he called them scum earlier this week, his own republican party disagreed. but, willie, again, you look and the stupidity, the political

stupidity, the political malpractice, first of all, i'm just saying so many of donald trump's people think they're helping donald trump, i mean, you look at the president himself, these press conferences, as we've been saying for weeks, it's not helping him in the polls. seniors are looking at this and it's scaring them. if you look and see what "the wall street journal" -- >> because it's killing them. >> -- is writing, what the national review is writing about, the president's preposterous claims and his reckless claims, if they're writing that, then you know seniors who are swing voters are scared to death. you look at what the republican leadership in wisconsin is doing, and again i got believe they're a wholly owned subsidiary of biden 2020 because of the stupidity and the

remembering lens e lessne recklessness they've engaged in over the past weeks. and they're still at it. like this liberate thing, it's really a small fraction of americans and it's damaging donald trump's standing there. and you talk about michigan, my god, he insultedmy's govern mic governor time and time again. she has a 75% approval rating. pennsylvania, concerns outbreaks east and west there, it's basically joe biden's home state outside of delaware. this is a president who has lost his political ear at the worst possible time for him politically, but for the rest of america as far as health care issues go. >> yeah. and it goes beyond that 20-point swing among seniors, joe, which he won by seven points. he won 65 and older voters by seven points in 2016. but i'm so glad you raised the protest, because we see those images on the news. we see the people walking around

with ar-15s, we see the woman leaning out of the truck yelling at a nurse telling the nurse to go to china if he likes communism. but these are small protests and i'm going to submit that we're not that divided, that includes republicans and conservatives. 60% in the nbc polls say they're worried about opening the economy too soon. and that includes sections of the voters that elected donald trump. 49% of rural voters in that nbc poll, 49 to 39 said they worry about opening the economy too soon. 51%, a majority of non college whites, which president trump dominated, say they worry about opening the economy too soon. these numbers are all in the nbc "wall street journal" poll. so we're not actually that divided. americans are doing a great job staying at home trying to thwart this disease, trying to flatten the curve. and the images that the president is trying to prop up and show and get out there of some of these protests actually represent a small percentage of

where we are. >> we really, mika, willie's right, america is so much closer on these issues than some people in the media would want you to believe. >> yeah. >> that you look at the numbers, not just the nbc poll, you can look thank you pugh poll and just about every other poll. you can talk to small business owners who desperately want to get back to work but understand if they go back too soon they will lose their companies forever. a lot of family-owned businesses who are just getting absolute pounded right now, they want to get back to work. but, as you know, our friends say only when it's safe. and i -- the idea that this is some sort of political wedge issue, you look at the poll numbers, it's really not. it's a small fraction of people trying to get attention. i don't think the media should overhype those rallies. i think sometimes they do.

and i think most americans are united, we have to be responsible. let's listen to doctors, let's listen to nurses, let's listen to health care workers and let's follow that guide zblans theyan >> they're watching the bottom line. it's not just small businesses that are family-owned businesses, it's chains. there was a chipotle and i saw a huge sign, you may not come in without -- they will turn people away, at least at the one that i was driving by. they will not let people come in and buy their food they're not wearing masks. and even then they're delivering -- they have to protect themselves. someone gets sick, they're shut down. so they've got no choice no matter what the president says. still ahead on "morning joe," the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, is our guest. plus, former presidential candidate senator amy klobuchar and secretary of state to barack obama, john kerry joins the conversation. also, some troubling new findings about the malaria dlaug

w drug that was pushed for a long time by the president to street coronavirus. it turns out the president's claims may have been just as vak cant vacant against his attacks on the intel community. >> that's quite a segue. >> and among those to be impacted by the president he's -- >> by the way, what about those doctors that kept going on tv. >> pushing it. >> pushing these drugs which have not been through any clinical trials. when dr. fauci who's been saving americans lives for decades saying, please, let's have clinical trials. but doctors left and right were going out trying to get a little bit of attention, and it ends up we're offering some really reckless, dangerous advice. >> deadly advice. and among those to be impacted by the president's executive order on immigration, potentially some of the very same doctors working on the front lines of the pandemic. we'll dig into that next on "morning joe." t next on

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we need to cultivate and value it. it should prompt all of us to do our part in this time. the more we can share

responsibilities, the more we ken sure that no one is left behind. i think emulating today's health care workers will help us through this time and represents the best of what it means to be an american. esents the best of what it means to be an american. by pausing immigration we'll help put unemployed americans first in line for jobs as america reopens. so important. it would be wrong and unjust for americans laid off by the virus to be replaced with new immigrant labor flown in from abroad. >> what people say doesn't track with opening up the country to shut down immigration across the board for companies that -- and the pipeline that's already in place. what do you say to them? >> well, i think it really does. i think it's very strong, obviously, and it's countrywide as opposed to specifically like china oar some of the oth china or some of the other ones i've sht down. you'll see a very accurate

definition after its completed tomorrow. >> tom nichols had the best tweet about this. last night he said didn't anybody ask about the senate intel report? and tom nichols said not unquestion on that and only short on the chloroquine stuff because they were all busy chasing the immigration laser pointer guy. >> i agree with that. that little cat thing. >> yeah. >> the light. >> take him up the wall. take us all up the wall. look, hey, oh, as joe lockhart said, nobody gets a green card in 60 days anyway. so, once again, it means nothing. but, it gets everybody revved up. i do have to say this too. i'm just saying this as a small government conservative, there aren't many of us left. in fact, why don't the 12 of us have a zoom call after this show. if you're a small government conservative, i think there are about 11 or 12 of us at last count -- >> you might find more than you know in america. >> let's have a zoom conference

call and just -- just talk about what's happened over the past three, four years. but, you know, willie there is like the whole mussolini think a couple days ago or about a week ago or spartacus. i don't know who he was, but he goes i have complete control. i am in charge of everything. blah, blah, blah. everybody gets -- obviously they should be concerned if a president starts talking about a dictator you are allowed to be concerned, right? but then the next day that means nothing. i mean, so much of it -- so much of what he says is a quote, own the lips. here's another example of it. this idea that we're going to shut down -- it's kind of like him when he said i've shut down travel with china after 430,000 people have already gotten in, an additional 40,000 get in after the ban. so much of it in the immortal

words of john lennon from the walls and bridges album, it's all show biz. it's all show biz. >> it's the conundrum of the trump presidency. it's the seriously literally conversation we've been having for four years. how do you take him when he makes a big pronouncement like the one he made two days ago on twitter about shutting down immigration, everyone says, wow, he's closing the borders of the country. but we've learned over four or five years now to take that with a grain of salt and see what actually comes out of it. he'll sign an executive order today that bears no resemblance to shutting down immigration to the country. it's a 60-day pause on people seeking permanent residence, green cards. it doesn't do anything about guest work or programmings, nothi programs. it's not just progressives who are critical of it, the "wall street journal's" editorial board is taking issue with the president's plan writing in today's paper, trump's immigration distraction writes the impending executive order

actually will cost the country valuable jobs and has no real relationship to the covid-19 crisis. the journal writes this. there is no evidence we've seen that immigrants are associated with the spread of covid-19 more than anyone else. immigrants in this pandemic are providing essential work like farm labor, meat packing, food preparation and grocery delivering that are helping the country endure. the white house also concedes all this by leaking that mr. trump's order will carve out exceptions for farm and health care workers. he should, unless he wants crops rotting in the field and covid-19 patients go untreated. the foreign born share of u.s. doctors, nurses, and other health care workers is roughly 16.5%. we will talk to dr. dave campbell in a moment about that very point on doctors and nurses, but first yamiche is still with us from the white house. yamiche, you've seen this a thousand times covering the white house. the president makes a bold declaration impromptu perhaps in a pool spray for a tweet and

then what we see by the end, by the way, surprises i had own west wing and advisers by doing so and they have to scurry in and fill in the blanks afterward. but ultimately, what we see on paper in the end does not resemble what he put in a tweet a couple days before. >> that's right. the president tweeted that he was suspending all immigration into the united states when, in fact, he's not doing that and he's making a lot of exceptions. the president's been clear this is a 60-day, he thinks, plan. but what's also interesting is this doesn't change that much. we already have immigration policies that show that anyone who shows up to the united states right now who is undocumented, you're being turned away without any sort of court appearance or due process, if you're a kid or fearing for your life, all of that is out the door. you're leaving this country immediately in the was already happening. but the president yesterday was backing up his actions by saying that immigrants would not only take jobs from americans, but he was making the case they would be a burden on the health care system when, in fact,

immigration advocates tell me that's wrong. there are a lot of immigrants who are, as you said, essential workers in this country doing stuff like packing groceries, like being health care workers. but immigration add crvocates s it's the president's crutch. any time the president feels backed up against the wall, anytime he feels like he's looking like a failure, he goes to immigration and does some big policy on that. i talked to another immigration advocate who said this is really the president trying to use dem goinger -- to say there's still a lock of testing and americans who don't know if they have the virus and don't know if they're passing it along to other americans. as we talk about immigration, it's still the fact that the president is dealing with all of the things going on whether it comes to the coronavirus response. >> so yamiche, thank you very much. i want to bring in "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell and put aside the political, i don't know, cat

light that he's flashing around and look at the real ramifications on this. it could impact, dr. dave, the medical community. tell us how. >> you know, we've never been in the need for high-quality, competent, energetic health care workers than we are now. if we look back over last few months at those frontline health care workers that we have put on a pedestal because they're an academic institutions or urban areas working frontline in the ers in the you are sent car centers and icus, a lot of those have been immigrant people in training and residencies. and every july 1st there's a switch. everybody knows that, interns and residents switch july 1st. there will be over 4,000 new residents coming in july 1st that are international medical graduates which means there are another 4,000 who have been on the frontline for months now battling this virus. their jobs in jeopardy.

their ability to stay in the u.s. when they finish their specialty training, critical care doctors, icu doctors, they're in jeopardy. i've spoken to some of those and they are freaked out about what could happen to their future work in the united states as frontline, critical care specialists and others. you know, there are actually -- there's a shortage of ventilators. we know that. there's more of a shortage for critical care doctors in the united states today. >> so how do we -- we'll make sure, obviously, dr. dave, how do we make sure that when we get 4,000 critical care doctors in, health care workers in, that they will be clear of any virus? that they -- what sort of screening will most likely be done? because don't we already have -- i mean, that's why this is sort of a laser pointer routine that the cat chases on the wall. don't we already have safeguards in place that stop people from

coming to this country if there's even any chance that they're infected? >> yeah, i'm not sure that the doctors coming in being infected is the concern. i don't -- i think that's an unintended casualty of this proposed executive order. i don't think it was thought about, personally. so 4,000 jobs lost to other doctors, that's irrelevant. we need those doctors to come in and backfill the academic centers, the care facilities. those residents are critical to the health care systems who are in the big cities and the frontline of managing covid-19 today, joe. >> all right. well, i think -- thank you, dr. dave, for being with us. alex just got in my ear and said i think we chased the laser pointer long enough ourselves. chances are good that it won't be implemented. but he'll occasionally talk about the wall, trade wars,

he'll occasionally talk about, again, things like this thinking that somehow it's going distract senior citizens from the fact that he's got people in his own administration that said, well, you know what? you know, maybe some -- and lieutenant-governor texts maybe some people need to die. >> good lord. >> so the stock market does better. still ahead, do you remember this moment from earlier this month? >> i doubt it. >> we've known literally forever that disease like diabetes, hypertension, obesity and asthma are disproportionately afflicting the minority populations, particularly the african americans. unfortunately, when you look at the predisposing conditions that lead to a bad outcome with coronavirus, the things that get people into icus, that require intubation and often lead to death, they are just those very comorbidities that are unfortunately disproportionately prevalent in the

african-american population. we're very concerned about that. it's very sad. there's nothing we can do about it right now except to try to give them the best possible care to avoid those complications. >> dr. anthony fauci there on the racial disparities in health care. we've got a deep dive on that coming up just ahead. morningio is ba morningio joe is back in just a moment. o joe is back in just a moment. joe is back in just a moment. joe is back in just a moment. is back in just a moment. joe is back in just a moment.

i'm jo ann jenkins with aarp. in these challenging times, we need each other more than ever. we may be apart, but we're not alone. use aarp community connections to find or create a mutual aid group near you. stay connected and help those in need. but if you look to the land, it's a whole different story. from farms to backyards, wheels are turning. seeds are being planted. animals are getting fed. and grass is growing. and families are giving their all to the soil because no matter how uncertain things get, the land never stops. so to all those linked to the land, we say thank you. we're here for you because we all run together.

the senate passed a $484 billion coronavirus relief plan that includes aid for small

businesses and hospitals as well as money to expand testing. the house says it hopes to approve the legislation as soon as tomorrow. and president trump said he would sign it into law. the legislation would increase funding for the paycheck protection program by $310 billion. it would also boost a separate small business emergency grant and loan program by 60 billion. and direct 75 billion to hospitals and 25 billion to a new coronavirus testing program. >> so, jonathan lemire, a lot in here for a lot of people alike. of course, small businesses, they got stiffed in the first round by bigger chains, actually, who never even got any of that money get a chance at some of the money. you've got extra money for hospitals. that's obviously critically important. so many hospitals not just urban hospitals, but rural hospitals losing money hand over fist. it's hard for them to keep their

doors open. then of course the $25 billion the democrats really pushed for for new coronavirus testing programs. it seems to me pretty popular bill, other than from senators lee and rand paul. >> this is a popular bill, joe. a lot of good news in here. but there are some warning signs on the horizon too. first good news. it's $483 billion. it's much-needed help for small businesses which did not receive enough in previous packages. the democrats really pushed for more money to go to hospitals, which is also needed. but the house, which of course represented lawmakers, have been scattered across the country, shuttered in their own districts, they're being summoned back to washington, in the house, expected to be voted on tomorrow. the president has said he will sign this. that is good news. but there are warning signs for future aid packages which all economists and experts believe will be needed. this is still not nearly enough to help people who are dealing

with this pandemic with the unemployment, the loss of jobs, and the economy cratering. we heard, first all of we've seen republicans ramp up the attacks about this package, blaming democrats for the delay. democrats counter that by saying they were pushing for more money for particularly hospitals and small business. but we also heard senate majority leader mitch mcconnell yesterday really start to express worry about the growing price tag here and about the deficits that are coming with this aid package and with more that's expected to be needed. suggesting that at some point congress will need close that faucet, that it won't be able to give relief money across the nation, which is all ready worrying some. particularly as a final point, the states. one thing that's not in this bill, relief for states. governor cuomo, that was part of his pitch yesterday to president trump saying, look, for the next package we need to have more federal assistance to the state governments.

donald trump said, president trump has said he'd be in favor of that. senate majority leader mcconnell far less certain. >> so, and this is why, you know, i think like everybody else, i want the states, i want businesses to reopen as soon as they can. that's why i want expansive testing. i mean, but we were already 22, $23 trillion in debt before this pandemic. this price tag is being passed not to future generations, to us right now. and it is going to be devastating. we have got to take care of the medical crisis so we can get americans back to work. because we can't afford, you know, a trillion dollars here, a trillion dollars there. we aren't going to have that money moving forward. >> so the speaker of the house nancy pelosi will be our guest. ahead this morning we'll talk to her about that. plus, attorney general

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at that podium back on march 9th, vice president pence said that over a million tests had been distribute and then he said, this is an exact quote, before the end of this week another 4 million tests will be distributed. as you know now, we still aren't at 4 million tests. what is wrong with the testing? >> ready? are you ready? >> yeah. >> again, i'll say it for the fifth time. we have tested more than any country in the world and some of the countries are very big. okay. more than any country in the world. we have one of the most successful, if you call mortality rates, because one person, and i always say that for you in particular, one person is too many. but we've done very well, our

testing. if you add them all up, we've tested more. now, i don't know what mike pence said, but i'm sure he could thans question. >> he said 4 million tests and six weeks later -- >> again, we've tested more than every country in the world, even put together. so that's all i can say. >> just because you say it again and again and again doesn't make it true. >> well, i mean -- >> it's just people can see it. the president -- somebody ought to let the president know that people can see the testing's not there for them. 3,320 million people here. 4 million at that point is pitiful. because the states are compete and trying to get tests from places like south korea which did it right and we still look way behind because there's no nationalized coordinated effort. that's the feeling that most have. and if you're a governor of a

state you're frustrated because you're in this situation and the president could change it. so as much as he has these briefings, which are really campaign rallies where he's trying to get the cat light to go this way and that way for the media and appeal directly to his people, his people, many of them, will be impacted by the coronavirus. and his people won't be able to get tests. and his people will end up in hospitals and ventilators just as much as anybody else. he can't fight this reality with his mouth. >> well, so his people, it's all of us. we've got one president and if he gets testing right, then we can get back to work. if he gets testing wrong, then you're going to have people getting back to work before we're ready, more people dying and as his own cdc director said, just absolutely absolute devastation in the fall. but, willie, this goes to the disconnect. the president has to know that

seniors are watching him. and when he talks about more tests than anybody else, they know that per senior, per person, per capita the united states of america, the most technology logically advanced, most medically advanced, scientifically advanced nation in the world is far, far behind other countries when it comes to testing per patient, testing per person, testing per seniors. it's like, you know, it's like comparing delaware and california. california can say, yes, we have more of everything, but maybe you don't per capita. and maybe that hurts california. but, again, he makes these wild claims that, i mean, he knows they're misleading.

and senior citizens know he's misleading. and that's why we see these poll numbers, his poll numbers among seniors tanking. we see his poll numbers among others tanking. we see people disagreeing with him on -- on a lot of issues here. and he's still trying to spin this alternate reality. and, again, i'm genuinely baffled that -- that this guy who has been so good at reading the base instincts of americans is getting this one so wrong politically. >> yeah, it's another point of internal conflict when he says on the one hand that we're overstating, remember he said in that tweet, testing, testing, testing, that's all people harp about. but then he says we have the most tests in the world. as a raw number that's true. as a per capita number not even close, of course. the problem is, pleramericans,

you say, know what they're seeing out their front door and in their town and state and that is there's no testing. there's very little testing where they live and there were $25 billion put into this new bill that you and jonathan lemire were talking about that the president is supposed to sign for testing. we're going to pump $25 million into testing. is that a new federal fprogram? the president said it should be up to the states, not the federal government. so that leaves gary hogan, the republican, who leaves his wife who is korean, calling friends and because of their relationships in south korea, the state of maryland gets half a million coronavirus tests. that's the kind of ad-hoc testing and acquiring of tests that's having to go on. new york city mayor bill de blasio doing the same thing. the city is going to start its own program. in the meantime getting a company in indiana to send some tests their way.

there is no national testing program. the president can brag about the raw number and that's true. but in a country of 330 million people, the number is actually poultry and every medical expert including the ones who stand next to him every day in the white house briefing room say we've got to test the country, know who has it before we can get us open for business again. >> well, let's bring in john heilemann. john, i'm going to make a request and i have a question for you. also mike barn knack he wiicle senator claire mccaskill. >> but we have john heilemann. >> people talk about john heilemann's background and how the fruit is laid out perfectly on the table. it's -- it is -- >> an orange. >> -- a hipster's kitchen right there. >> people got a lot of times on their hands, joe. a lot of time on their hands. >> i also see a -- >> the apple today, the apple today is going to get a lot of commentary. >> there's also words, if you

read them backwards over the door, i buried paul. but there's a lot of things to read in the background there. so, this little -- so i'm just curious, john heilemann, first of all, could you give us one of those awesome calendars from the recount on the lies? and i'd like to say the claims, they're just lies. so i got to call them lies. the lies that the president and mike pence have made about testing? that's, first of all, that's my request to you. could you guys make a calendar? because they have lied so often. and then my personal calls with people running the white house say oh, joe, you're going love what we tell you on tuesday and on tuesday they tell you nothing. that's like a month and a half ago about testing. could you do one of those nifty calendars? because i think it really effectively shows americans how long senior citizens have been

lied to. >> i'm going to work on that, joe, and i'm going to do a special version that's going to be like an advent calendar so you can see the lies and the dates but at the end you can punch the dates and have a little piece of chocolate. >> i like that a lot. thank you so much. >> that's my plan. >> we've been talking about medicine a long time, this is a show that's been talking about -- that's talked about politics for 11 years, 12 years. let's talk -- i think -- i think because it's what the president understands and because the president can't quit us, he watches the show all the time, let's talk about the politics of -- of the president's press conference. you know, i've pin been sayibee for a long time that it hurts him politically. i think the numbers are showing

that in the polls. but i've been especially focused on how seniors, how senior voters who have been bedrock of support for donald trump, how they must be watching this as the president's top economic advisers says let's open up. you know what? death is part of life, lieutenant-governor of texas basically saying the same thing. grandparents would die. we get the economy started again. steve moore also an economic adviser for the president, informal at least, he tried to put on the fed board, also basically saying the same thing, talking about people protesting endangering the life of senior citizens were the rosa parks of this generation. i could go on and on. i mean a catholic journal that talks incessantly about being pro life talking about, hey, death is part of life so let's just relax about death and get the economy started. they go on and on and on. but these people are talking about, yeah, just sacrificing

the greatest generation. sacrificing vietnam vets. sacrificing them so the stock market will go up and the 401(k)s will be strong. i think as a young southern baptist in youth groups, i think they told us back in the 1970s and '80s that was called euthanasia. at least that's what they would say if the nancy pelosi democrats were proposing all of this. so i'm curious, why does donald trump have this blind spot? he has to know that the people carrying around military-style weapons, congregating, trying open states when the overwhelming majority of americans want those states closed, overwhelming majority of seniors want those states closed until they have proper testing, until they can reopen safely, till they can follow the medical guidelines, donald trump has to know that's hurting him with

senior citizens. and we've got numbers to show that. i know he's got numbers that show that inside the white house. so why does -- why does he have such a blind spot here? any -- any idea? >> well, joe, i think the president is more unmored politically now than as ever been. and it's clear that, you know, most of the strategies, most of the tactics that president trump has used for the course of the last 3 1/2 years, to uneven effect. you and i have talked about this a million times on the show, donald trump gets away with this, he gets away with that. you can go through the electoral record the last 3 1/2 years and it's clear that he and the party directly have paid an enormous price for his political failures. but right now to the extent that his strategies and tactics have woshld in the pa worked in the past, he's met a circumstance which he's been

complete l completely incapable to call the place from the old playbook and have them work in a limited way. so you see him flailing around right now as -- as uncertain about his footing as he's ever been. and i think in those circumstances, what he's done is to just recede further and further to the most basic kind of like ferrell kind of instikts that he has. they're opening up the rallies in michigan aor wherever, he ses the maga hats, he thinks culture war. the kind of most rudimentary version of this, everything in trump's politics success versus them. so he goes for the culture war. he's not reading the polls. he's not reading the cross stats. he's not looking at the granular or even the macro view of what's going on because he's losing on

every metric of public opinion. but when he sees stuff on tv that he thinks is he seize on, that kind of feels familiar to him, he dives for that. so he hears culture war, let's do a culture war. the immigration thing is the same move. he's panicking and so he goes to kind of ground, you know, home truths for him. if i can make this an us versus them fight, if i can talk about immigration, if i can stir up people to hate the libs, to hate government, to hate the governor and the democrats, if i can make somebody hate somebody, somehow i can pull a win out of that and i think it's led him further astray politically than he's ever been in 3 1/2 years. and that is saying something given how poor a lot of his political calculations have been. >> the political calculations have been so poor, and i guess, will little, the worst political calculation that he's made and that some of his supporters in the media have made, is that you -- i can't believe i have to

state this. you can't make a culture war out of a pandemic. like people are dying. this pandemic is killing democrats, killing republicans, killing independents, infecting everybody. and it's go to infect everybody. and, again, like we said from the very beginning, you know, the president can lie from the podium on certain issues, but what when a senior citizen believed everything the president said about ukraine, believed everything that the president said about mueller and everything he said about hillary clinton, believed everything -- because you know what? they don't have anybody to verify. i mean, to verify whether it's true or not. i mean, maybe they voted for this guy, okay, fine, he said it i believe it.

they can pick up the phone and call their doctor that they've had for 20, 25 years. they've been saying this now for quite some time. and could say, now, the president says a, b, c. the doctor would be, no, no, it's not like this is serious. this will kill you if you're a senior citizen. this will kill you if you have underlying health conditions. and those lies suddenly, they're not working for him anymore. and you -- riley thougi really would figure that out a month ago, because his path to victory goes directly through seniors in florida, seniors in wisconsin, seniors in michigan, and seniors in pennsylvania. and, yes, seniors in arizona and seniors in georgia. and you look at these numbers that are coming out this morning consult poll, he's losing seniors because they got doctors who are saying, no, no, no, no,

no. what the president's telling you is not the truth. you take care of yourself and you take care of your family and you stay in your home until the president and the governors and everybody works together and gets those tests. and your know, we're showing this 49/50, the president's lost a heck of a lot of support from seniors, but he's getting beaten by joe biden among seniors, which, you know, he can't win if joe biden's beating him by eight or nine points among seniors. >> yeah. the nabs nbc "wall street journal" poll has the spread at 9% for joe biden among voters 65 and older. the president won by seven points those voters over hillary clinton. that was a critical group for him in a tight election to put him over the top. but claire mccaskill, it appears and as i pointed out in our last hour, if you look at the nbc "wall street journal" poll, it's not just 65 and older voters

that's afforded president trump in 2016 turning on him a bit on this issue at least, it's also the other groups. rural voters, non college white voters who are looking in their own communities and, as joe says, listening to their doctors and saying, actually, mr. president, we're not quite with you on this one because we know this is more serious than you're letting on because it's visited my family or my community or my state. >> yeah. you know, it's really weird, this is probably the first president in history who won an election by a sliver. frankly he lost the popular vote. he won the electoral college because he won a handful of states by the narrowest of margins. he saw in that victory that america loved him. most presidents would see they had work to do, especially when you factor in that his winning margin were people that were voting against hillary clinton, not for him. so this crisis would typically be a moment that a united states

president would see the opportunity to reach out broadly, bring everyone together, not play to the basest of the base, so to speak. not use a mega phone at the very loyal trump supporters, but rather use a calming, consistent voice to all of america. he has failed miserably at that. instead, he has gone to his tried and true playbook, let's watch fox news, let's make the people that are wearing mega hats happy, let's not think about those voters that either rejected me or only voted for me because they didn't like the alternative. that's a recipe for losing. and he has not figured that out, even though i think a lot of the people around him probably have. and they've got to be desperate to get him back on track. but he just seems incapable of doing that. >> another issue he's been

pushing in these briefings, this drug, this experimental drug. researchers have found that the use of the malaria drug hide dr hide droxsy chloroquine has no benefits. the study analyzed 368 male hospitalized covid-19 patients at va medical centers across the country who died or were discharged by april 11th. researchers found that 28% of those given hydroxychloroquine died versus the 11% who received routine care alone. they also found that hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a ventilator. you may have heard of this drug from president trump's frequent touting of it. >> has he brought this up before? >> he touted it a lot. he talked about the benefits

what do you have to lose. >> do you have any clips? >> a drug called chloroquine, some people would add to it hydroxy. hydroxychloroquine. so chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. this is a common malaria drug and it's shown very encouraging, very, very encouraging early results. and we're going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. >> this really solves a problem. i mean, getting a vaccine is important, but if we could do something like as an example, if we had some therapeutically where one of these numerous items that we're testing right now plie now, if any of this works this is a game changer. and there's no risk when it's already out there in a different form for a different purpose. so we're going to see how it all

comes out and we're very -- just started. >> we bought a prtremendous of e hydroxychloroquine. hydroxychloroquine which, i think, as you know it's a great malaria drug. it's worked unbelievably. they say taking it before the fact is good. but what do you have to lose? they say take it. i've seen things that i sort of like, so what do i know? i'm not a doctor. i'm not a doctor. but i have common sense. and i say, try it. okay, please. >> you -- >> you're in trouble, if you're going to die and you're going to die -- i mean, you're not going to die from this pill. now, there could be some side effects, but the side effects is really more so from the -- >> those side effects? >> no, i -- doctors have to recommend it. i want doctors -- i'm not saying -- i'm not a doctor. i'm just saying we hear great results. our national stockpile is now equipped with nearly 30 million

hydroxychloroquine pills. so we're up to about 30 million. we're distributing them by the millions. in addition, the zithromycin and zinc. they say you should add zinc. this all has to be recommended by doctors, physicians, but they say zinc. i want to throw that out there because that's where they seem to be having the best result. so you add the zinc and the zithromycin and it's been -- we've had a lot of good stories. >> i wondered if you're concerned this va study showed that actually more people died that used the drug that didn't and i'm wondering if governor cuomo brought you back any results? >> no, we didn't discuss it and i don't know of the report. obviously there have been some very good reports and, perhaps, this one's not a good report. but we'll be looking at it.

>> mike barnicle, wow. that was a long list of comments. the president obviously has been pushing this based on his gut. he's a businessman, making medical recommendations saying what do you have to lose by trying that? well, this one observational study coming out of the va, and it is one study, it's not a clinical trial, they went out of their way to say, shows that it actually may cause death in some patients. that is may make things worse for coronavirus patients and that it showed no benefits to patients who are on ventilators. this is one area of this ongoing diplomacy for dr. fauci where he has had to stand and listen to the president say all the things that we just heard him say and then step to the microphone and say, not so fast, there nor clinical trials on this. we don't want to be pushing this. and then the president would get up and talk about it again on the advise of people like rudy giuliani who was in the president's ear pushing hydrochloroquine. >> you know, willie, as we

listen to those comments uttered by the president, all i could think of was at some point down the road the future jon meacham's doris goodwins, they're going to be accession the historical impact of this presidency. and scenes like that, rhetoric like that, you can just imagine what they'll be assessing. trump's problem is, basically from you want to boil it down to just one simple essence right now, the virus doesn't vote. the virus doesn't wear a maga hat. the virus is out there devouring whatever and whomever it can devour. and joe and mika were talking earlier about the lack of testing as we've been talking about this each and every single day. i'm looking at a list right here of countries that as of last friday were ahead of us in testing. quick list. norway, south korea, australia, italy, denmark r as streetia, capd, israel, russia, the czech

republic, united kingdom, taiwan, and the list goes on. this is pure incompetence out there for the public to see and measure every day. joe was talking about the seniors, the numbers in the polling data showing them supporting joe biden over donald trump. those numbers are only going to magnify because his answer to all of this difficulty that we're going through, this tragedy, the death, the economic underpinnings disappearing in this country, his answer is to go back to a playbook of diversion and division. look at this, look at the immigration thing that i'm doing now. don't look at the fact that your mom is dying in a rest home. i'm going to stop immigrants from coming in here. that is a recipe for failure. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," the speaker of the house nancy pelosi is our guest. plus, former presidential candidate senator amy klobuchar and secretary of state to barack obama, john kerry joins the

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today marks the fifth anniversary of earth day due to the coronavirus pandemic, people across the globe are living under lockdown restrictions. city streets are empty causing unprecedented reductions in human activity ultimately impacting the environment, at least for now. nbc news correspondent cal perry has the story. >> what we have done together over the past few months has been nothing short of remarkable. billions are home, our metropolises are empty, the transportation hubs many point to as poise sons for our planet are vacant. so too are centers of commerce are silent. if you're looking for hope that a more balanced relationship with our planet is possible, these actions have made an immediate and discernible

difference. satellite images from the european space agency show air pollution has subsided in cities across europe. madrid, rome, and paris all saw significant decreases in nitrogen dioxide. decreases of up to 45% in some places. according to the publication carbon brief, emissions in china fell by a stunning 25% in the first few weeks of 2020. with factories and offices shudered across europe, energy consumption is down, way down, double digit percentages in some countries. >> if the economy stays slow, the transport stays down, we could see a drop in carbon dioxide emissions this year of 5% or more. and that may not sound like that much, but we've never seen that in the past 75 years. maybe going back into the end of world war ii. >> no one has ever seen mass transportation change or stop so quickly. air travel around the world has evaporated.

last year, tsa handled an average of 2.5 million passengers a day in america. this month, it's 90,000 a day. crude oil prices have crashed. we've literally extracted from the earth more than we can use or can store. oil prices on monday were considerably cheaper than hand sanitizer. the reality is, as quickly as we flip the switch off, we will likely flip it back on. >> it's not going to last that long. so as soon as everybody gets back to normal, these emissions going to start, you unless we decide to do something different. >> until then, some wildlife will enjoy the short-term, unprecedented cessation of human life outside. penguins are on the move in south africa. goats possibly now in charge of this small town in north wales, pigeons are pack hunting in spain, and the waters of venice are as clear as they have been in a generation. now, politicians like governor cuomo have said we can't go back to the way things are, rather,

we need move forward. and we've seen that the way we're living has a discernible impact on the planet. the question is, as we move forward we are going to enact policies that enable sustainability or will we go back to our lifestyle of consumption? mika. >> fascinating. let's bring in someone who took part in the first earth day following his return from the war in vietnam, former u.s. secretary of state john kerry. mr. secretary, great to have you on the show. thank you so much for joining us. >> he would realwe really do ap mir secretary. we're going to reach a terrible milestone in the coming weeks. it's hard to believe we're going to get there, but if you look at the data and where the lines are going, where the numbers are going, probably by next week more americans will have died of covid-19 than died in combat during the vietnam war.

and as someone who saw the human loss during that war and saw up close the scale of that loss and how it impacted entire generation, i'm curious what your thoughts wares are as we do approach that grim milestone. >> well, it's great to be with you and with mika and with the team and i'm glad you're all well and safe in these difficult times. obviously it's -- it's a stark reminder that if you don't learn the lessons of history you're doomed to repeat them. it's a different kind of dying, but it's coming from misinterpretation, from ignoring reality, it's coming from an unwillingness to respond to the truth and to the -- and to the lessons that we have learned. the fact is that coronavirus may be america's moment of truth in the sense that a lot of us were despairing that we were losing the capacity to decide in our

country, in our democracy, what the baseline of truth is. and there has been a different kind of war taking place, it's a war on science. it's a war on scientists. it's a war on facts. it's a willingness to completely distort the truth in favor of an ideology or personal election pursuit or whatever. and we're losing lives for that, which is not dissimilar to what richard nixon, lyndon johnson and others engaged in during that time of deception when america was lied to about the war in vietnam. there's another similarity to this great cause that we face, really the monumental choice of generations now, which is respond together climate crisis. the same willingness to distort the truth, to put your head in the sand and not pay attention to the facts and mostly to listen to the experts that has characterized coronavirus which brings you a pandemic is the same mischaracterization and

avoidance of truth that has characterized the response to climate and the climate crisis. so, you know, what corona is really saying to americans is hey, wait a minute, folks, it's important to listen to the experts. it's important to listen to scientists. it's important to find a baseline of truth and make the choices on it. so, coronavirus may be america, the world's great wakeup call with respect to the challenge of climate, because this is coming at us. if you think pandemics are bad today, wait till you have the warming at a greater level than it is now. and we're headed there. every scientific report and judgment shows that we are heading into amazing negative impacts, the feedback loops on the earth are just horrendous right now. i'm not going to go trow them a through them all.

that's the meaning of the deaths thus far. yesterday was the highest number of deaths, and still this president is avoiding responsibility for testing. >> i want to ask about his leadership in just a moment, but in terms of those parallels that you draw between coronavirus and the climate crisis and you've got a piece about it, i believe, in the boston globe, the one difference, though is that the consequences, the impact of this pandemic is palpable to all. to all americans, to people around the world, they are seeing the death, they are feeling the loss, they are feeling the pain, they are seeing the strain that our economy and our families are going through. it's going to be tougher and what is going to be the way to connect the climate crisis to the consequences? because you know people are going to try to go back to their -- to their ways as much as they can. >> sure. on day one, no question about it, i mean. >> yeah. >> it's a wonderful reminder

that people in india can see the himalayas for the first time, many of them first time ever. it's extraordinary to see clean waters in venice and so forth. but, boy, is that temporary, mika. the day people actually can really get back to work, we are, unfortunately, absolutely programmed to go directly back to the same practices we've had. the key here is to put an investment package before the world and to have world leaders come together. because this is a global challenge. you cannot solve this, no one country can solve this by itself. which is the importance of what we achieved with president obama in paris. the paris agreement was 196 countries all deciding to move in the same direction. only donald trump is the only president in the world, leader of any country, who has pulled out of that agreement. who has turned his back on reality. and so, unfortunately, we're

currently programmed to go directly back to the very same practices that will fill our skies with pollution and go back to the old practices. the difference, i think, will be that -- that this could become a major voting issue this november. that's what earth day meant to us before, that's what i think will happen now. >> i want to ask you about the president's leadership through this. you've met and worked with many presidents. there has been some disinformation in these briefings, much of it has come from the president himself. are you worried at all that he may not have the temperament to manage america through this crisis and the possibility that there could be a massive resurgence because of that lack of ability to manage? >> well, mika, i don't think it's just a question of temperament, i think it's a question of capacity and an approach to governance. he fund -- i mean, look, the truth is, and everybody in

america, i think, is beginning to come to understand that this president is not leading now. he's playing out an election strategy. he's more focused on getting the economy moving before all the experts say you ought to be putting people back together in close quarters again. and without the adequate rules by which people will be required to behave and certainly without the adequate testing that other countries are doing. i think mike barnicle a moment ago listed the countries, almost 20 countries or more. i mean, most of the countries dealing with this crisis at a high level are doing better than the united states of america on testing. and the truth is, you cannot get us back to real normal. you cannot get the economy churning at the rate it wants to and needs town le unless americ citizens have confidence when they come back to the workplace. and they won't today. you're not going to fill restaurants and you're not going to get people out there when the

medical experts are saying, you know, it's not safe do it yet. and the president is not heeding that. he's not leading. the fact that he's attacking governors, he's attacking members of the media, i mean, these -- these rallies that he has on tv may appeal to his base, but watching a president of the united states engage in such extraordinary behavior in direct insults to people who are just calmly sitting there asking a question is stunning. i'm -- i don't -- i've never seen any president, republican or democrat alike behave like that. so it may be entertaining as a reality show, but it has no relationship whatsoever to presidential leadership. and that's what americans are judging now to a greater degree. and i am absolutely convinced will judge as we get into november. but, you know, even leaders of other countries are looking at america and scratching their heads and incredulous. and president xi of china, who

trump varies between attacking and then saying he's such a good friend, the president xi and president putin and others are well aware that the united states is not competing in the same way as dwe in the international leadership scale. and so the leadership of the free world is actually absent right now. there is no leader of the free world. and the truth is, that president xi and president putin are running around the world saying america is a country in decline. this is not the american centuries, the chinese century or the asian sent trip or the alternative government century. we desperately need to get back to more realistic and focused leadership on a global basis. >> secretary kerry, it's willie geist. good to see you in this morning. you mentioned president xi and

you've had to deal with china in a complicated relationship. i'm wondering about your view the way china has managed this from its first case on december 31st forward silencing doctors, suppressing information, not being forthcoming or transparent with the way they told the world about this and the president of our country has rightly pointed out that if we'd known sooner we could have done more. how do you handle china right now and how damaging is their behavior over the last three months to our relationship with them? >> well, it's been damaging. and other things are damaging about the relationship with china in terms of a general move towards trying to tee up china and a new cold war and many forces trying to push -- push apart the capacity to be able to build a stronger relationship. that's dangerous. china made mistakes. china and some of them willful. china was not forthcoming. china was not transparent.

and china picked out the u.s. team that was on the glund president obama had put together that was working on precisely coronavirus -- coronavirus research and how we manage it. and the president pulled them out. i mean there are was -- he's undone that particular initiative completely. closed the office, as we all know, as a matter of record. so, you know, we both have been moving in a different direction. the president's tariffs and his trade war got him an agreement to do what we were already doing, which is have a high-level dialogue, and to buy american products. but it did absolutely zero to get us the access to the marketplace, to rebalance the entire issue of theft of intellectual property, and the requirements that our companies face to try to do business over there. completely unfair. the president's correct to call them out on that.

we did also, in fact, we raised sanctions with china on north korea on several occasions and president obama's advice, if you recall to president trump when he came in was you've got to pay attention, north korea's the next challenge. and we have raised the sanctions but you've got to get the chinese do more. that went on. but you have to work out a working relationship with china. we brought china to the table. president obama and vice president biden together, and the entire administration worked to get china to the table in paris. and it was only by working with china that we were able to reach a paris agreement where 196 countries said we're going to do something about climate change. so we have to work with china. you have to work with china on covid-19, on all pandemics. you have to work with china on the security challenges of the

region. you have to work with china on cyber and cyber warfare, on nuclear weapons which are now breaking back into the currency of international affairs, major issue. and you also have the challenge of climate change. there is no way, therefore, to deal with the world's challenges and finally terrorism. you can't do that without a strong working relationship with china. and right now i think the president is all over the place and even heading in the wrong direction. >> former secretary of state john kerry. boy, do we need your voice. thank you very much for being on. we hope you come back soon. >> thank you. good to be with you. and coming up, two of the leading voices on capitol hill. we've got the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, plus former presidential candidate senator amy klobuchar joins the conversation. she's got direct experience

dealing with the virus after her hus w hus w husband was hospitalized with covid-19. as we go to break we're posting all sorts of updates. i recently spoke with dr. lina wen to get her best pieces of advice for new moms. she did a pregnancy diary and birth diary. for us, today dr. wen is taking your questions about the outbreak in a live chat right after "morning joe." we're going to talk about everything from how to stay safe at the grocery store to how to guide children in the middle of all of this. any questions, travel, go to knowyourvalue.com and all of our social channels on instagram especially. "morning joe" is back in a moment. pecially. "morning joe" is back in a moment. i just love hitting the open road and telling people

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attorney general william barr yesterday talked about possible justice department action against stay-at-home orders. he called, quote, disturbingly close to house arrest. here he is speaking with radio host hugh hewitt. >> if we think one goes too far, we initially try to jawbone the governors into rolling them back or adjusting them. and if they're not and people

bring lawsuit, we file at the same time of interest about and side with the plaintiffs. >> he added that the restrictions are very burdensome, impingements on liberty adoptied for the limite purpose of slowing down the spread and that, quote, we didn't adopt them as the comprehensive way of dealing with this disease. if orders begin to impact interstate commerce, the justice department would join lawsuits against the governors. and joe, good if we had testing >> i'm so confused. claire, i went to law school and i'll admit there were some times when i shouldn't have been reading sports illustrated, i should have been listening to my contracts professor. but you know, i did pretty well in kind law. and i'm so confused by what the attorney general said because i

didn't learn any of that. maybe that like mod lawyer 101? i decided to opt out of that one. but we have the administration doing the whole i am spartakus or i'm mussolini, i have total control, states got to do what they tell them to do. and then no, it is all up to the states. and then you got barr going no, no, we're going to join lawsuits if they follow white house recommend dations is basically e message that he is sending out. >> yeah, you know, i just refuse to get used to an attorney general of the united states being this reckless, this being political, being this brazen about supporting essentially political talking points without any basis in law. he knows there are states rights issues here.

he knows is that governors and even mayors and county executives have the authority within their communities to take earn is actions during the health crisis. why he would go on a national radio program and really dirty up the position of the attorney general of the united states by making such irresponsible statements, especially at a moment where everyone needs to be on the same page, where everyone needs to be respecting frankly the white house guidelines. as you said, it is really -- i just refuse to get used to it. this is a terribly political attorney general. and who has done serious damage to the rule of law in this country. >> mike barnicle, in fact the attorney general sounded like a radio show host position maybe playing toen a and you h toing . he effectively was making the trump liberate argument which is

to say this is a violation of civil liberties to order people to stay at home to prevent the spread of a pandemic. speaking not from the pulpit of the attorney general, but perhaps playing to a talk radio audience. >> yeah, willie, that is exactly right. i mean, the tweets last week liberate michigan, liberate minnesota, et cetera, the attorney general of the united states sadly, claire just alluded to this, is a fixer. that's what he is. he is not a lawyer any longer. he is certainly not the attorney general of the united states representing the country. he is a fixer for donald j. trump. that is why he is there. that is what he does. movements like this, the suggestion that he will sue the states for trying to protect people, trying to extend life, protect their citizens from the virus, there have been some bad attorney generals in this country's history, but he is right up there now at the top of

the list. >> all right. up next, our live interview with nancy pelosi at the top of the hour. "morning joe" will be back in three minutes. fastsigns understands the burden this difficult time has been on essential businesses due to covid-19 because we are an essential business. helping you solve your changing communication and business challenges is our commitment. we're in this together. there's ground to cover and a herd to feed.

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we've always believed in the power of working together. that's why, when every connection counts... you can count on us. what is impeding the federal government from addressing covid-19 crisis is the president's denial, delay and all of this. and that has been deadly. science, science, science. he has refused. so he has engaged in distractions like immigration,

distractions like suchtsing peop supporting people he on the street. that is distractions from the fact that he is a total failure when it comes to speaker nancy our guest in a few moments. >> willie, you sent me this tweet. it appears -- we've been talking a good bit about seniors over the first hour or so of the show. and the president now tweeting about our beloved seniors, that all care will be given to beloved seniors and then a typical dash of self pity, he said except me. we love you all. so the president now he loves all seniors and loves then in all caps this morning. good news from the white house, willie. >> and their lives will be better than ever, the president wrote just a minute ago go. we've been talking all morning about the flip in support according to one poll, the morning consult poll,go.

we've been talking all morning about the flip in support according to one poll, the morning consult poll, a flip of 1 20%. jeffrey epstein joe biden is up nine points on the president on seniors. he knows this is a problem. and now saying in all caps we love you all, their lives will be better than ever talking about american seniors. and as you pointed out, he does put in a dash evof self pity. >> willie geist, the master of the understatement. perhaps he's watching some morning television this morning. you know, you talk about seniors and john heilemann, we talked about this. my god, time flies when we're having fun. what was it, 12 hours ago me and you talking about this on "morning joe" which goes on for 47 hours a day. one of the polls after we finished talking, senior citizens, 75% of senior citizens say don't reopen the government

to nonessential workers. yet only 16% say yes, reopen. you look at -- again, i'm say it again, every poll shows that those people that are running around with military style weapons and, you know, the skull mask is a good thing, a joker mask, but just trying to look as scary as possible. these people are the minority and the president is watching among americans, 65 and other than, should nonessential workers be allowed to move freely outside, 75% say no. even though i took my last math class in tenth grade, i know that is three out of four american, john heilemann. >> right. not a hard poll to read. you don't need to have like an

einstein is meets james carville meets david plouffe kind of political insight to be able to figure this one out. and i think it is kind of astonishing, that number was consistent with the other number which was the number of all americans. right? we have a giant country in which very few people, i mean as horrific as these numbers are on infections and deaths, still the case that the vast majority of people have not been affected directly by this disease. and yet because they are witnessing what is going on, because they can see it, they see the coverage of it, they recognize reality, they listen to the doctors, they are rightly justifiably afraid that they might get it. and you can seeing even in parts of the country that have limited outbreak, two-thirds are saying that their greatest concern is that the governments will be reopened too quickly rather than their concern that the economy will be hampered by keeping them closed for too long. and yet the president continues

to drive down this path. and i think that you look at the numbers that you have been citing all morning about senior citizens, the president at this moment is still looking at that map and he sees the country not in terms of the demographics, but in terms of red and blue america, he sees the places most devastated by covid-19, he sees new york, he looks at california, he looks at washington state, he looks at michigan, looks as states that have democratic governors that are metropolitan areas that are overwhelmingly kind of blue. and he looks at the red america that has not been affected very much and does not seem to recognize that just weightait, u start to relax -- the reason that the death toll is what it is is because of the effect of these stay-at-home orders. they have been effective. and if you start to loosen too soon, very quickly not only will you have reoutbreaks in these big cities that have been affected already, but you will start to see it wash over red

america. so i think that the president not only does not kind of grasp the basics of political reasoning here and looking at these pretty easy to read poll numbers, but he also doesn't seem to understand the way the geography of the country is not fixed. it is not like wyoming is somehow immune from this virus. it is not like kansas is immune from this virus. it is not like the deep south is immune from this virus. just look at atlanta. he is making some huge errors here that are not just political error, but errors that are strategic errors that i think this has been an unmitigated political disaster for him. and if you look at his behavior, the main takeaway, somewhere deep down he knows that he is losing. >> and it is a flip-flopping too. i don't know if it is political desperation. again, i'm trying to figure it out because the signs are so clear. i don't independent why -- and

we've said it from the beginning. if you handle the testing side of this correctly,ent why -- an we've said it from the beginning. if you handle the testing side of this correctly, then the political side will follow. what is best medically for senior with citizens and 320 million americans is best politically for donald trump. and for other leaders. and there has just been as constant flip-flop. you know, he will again say he has absolute power and then give all the power to the states. and then barr will come out saying we're going to sue the states. and it is the same thing with the president talking about, you know, we have to reopen the government. and then the next moment he will say, you know, 1 million to 2 million people would have died. he said this yesterday. and i was glad to hear him say that. glad to hear him echo what scientists and what dr. fauci and others have said and dr. birx have said. i was glad to hear him say that,

which was if we hadn't have done these lockdown orders, instead of 50,000, 60,000, 70,000 people dying, it would be 1 million to 2 million. but then he will defeat out the liberate and then associates himself with the 6% of americans who want dr. fauci fired. and takes skit is a schizophren response and that is scaring the hell out of senior citizens and a lot of americans. >> and the lock duolockdowned o all we've got. other countries have testing and we're still stuck because this president hasn't prepared on a national level for testing. and seniors are watching. and also in terms of the number dead, over 40,000, we don't know the number. it is unknown. especially those who died in retirement homes who couldn't get a test. we want to bring in the speaker of the house now, democratic congresswoman nancy pelosi of california. speaker, thank you very much for

being with us. >> and madame speaker, let's start with some good news. a bill was passed yesterday that will help out small businesses. going to help out hospitals. and what we're excited about and i know a lot of senior citizens, republicans and democrats alike, a lot of money going towards testing. give americans the good news how you came together with republicans and actually passed a bill that can help our hospitals, help our senior, help small businesses and help on testing. >> good morning. happy earth day to you. yes, we were very pleased that the senate finally accepted the fact that we needed more money for testing, for hospitals, for lower -- smaller businesses to participate in the paycheck protection program. it took them a couple of weeks, but they finally did. we are in a tradition of having this be the fourth bill that we

are passing in a bipartisan spirit. flee in three in the month of march. the first passed march 4 was about testing, testing, testing. a month and a half later, we still aren't where we need to be. hopefully with the bill that passed the senate yesterday and that will pass the house tomorrow, there will be the recognition that if question want to open the country, open our economy, key to that is testing, testing, testing. contact tracing as well as -- i have to think of what you want to call it. isolation, separation or the rest. but again, mitch mcconnell likes to say that we delayed the bill. no, he delayed the bill. two weeks ago, he came to the floor and said this is all we're doing. just the 250. and democrats were reunited, house and senate, the senate democrats went to the floor and

said no to that, we have a better idea about hospitals and testing and more funds for all of the businesses, the lower -- shall we say the unbankable small businesses. so we were very pleased that he finally came around to the fact that we had to go forward with this. so he was the one wasting time. i say that because i keep hearing him say we delayed. no, he delayed. but here we are and we're ready to go on to the next bill to help our heros, our health care workers, our firefighters, our first responders, ems, our folks who are doing all the wonderful work to save lives as they risk their lives and now they may lose their jobs. >> madame speaker, can you tell us how the money is going to help hospitals, how the money is going to help move national

testing forward? i know a lot of senior citizens are worried about the economy opening up before test bei, mor robust testing. tell us how this bill moves america in the right direction for testing. >> this is a very important step. we thought the first bill in march would have been acted upon certainly by now. this allocates $25 billion for testing. some of to go to the states, some to different agencies of government to do research, et cetera. and approvals. this is very, very positive in that it recognizes the need for testing and it also recognizes the need for us to document how this terrible pandemic is affecting different communities. if you do not test, you cannot

possibly know the size of the challenge. once you do, then you are in a better place to get rid of it. and that is the path to opening the economy. so for our seniors at nursing homes and the rest, as you say, there is a big toll being taken there. but if we can test and isolate people, we're on a much better path. boy scouts say preparation prevents poor perform answer and that is exactly where the president gets an f. he was not properly prepared.an that is exactly where the president gets an f. he was not properly prepared. not with the truth of what was happening in our country. delay, denial, death. instead, we'd like to see him insist on the truth and we must insist on the truth with him. and that is really what should give us hope. if he finally -- never too late, it is never too late as i keep

saying to tell the truth, mr. president, and it is never too late to do the right thing and to pay attention to see you inside, s insidescience, science, science. >> but the actual reality of this, who will manage for example the $25 billion toward testing. and just very honestly, because people really want to sort of know the truth about what is going on here, what is your confidence level in the president's ability to manage mass testing for the american people, to manage this in a way that is productive and that will help? >> well, my confidence is not high in that regard, but my faith is in the science. and the scientists who are speaking out really debunkinging some of what the white house experts are saying that we just need x number of tests a day. we're never going to get there at the snail pace that they are

putting forth. but you have sign academics and the rest setting a standard three times higher than what the white house is talking about. so we have put the resources there, we're prepared to do more in terms of the testing in the next legislation as we see how productive it all is. but again, this has to be across the country. it is all ethnic groups, all geographies, all income levels. i just saw that the former president of stanford passed away, a scientist himself, from the coronavirus. so it is so indiscriminate and i'm very sad about the people in the street because i play for them that they are exposing themselves and hopefully not taking it home to fair children and their families. so i wish the presidented in of being an agent of distraction to say, oh, he embrace what is is going on the street because it is a distraction from his failure on testing. or instead of talking about

immigration because it is a distraction from his failure on testing. frankly just grow up to the fact that we have a big challenge in our country. >> madame speaker, willie geist has a question. >> good morning, speaker pelosi. thank you for being with us. the lion's share of the money of this $484 billion goes to small businesses and that is good news. $322 billion to the ppp, $60 billion for small business loan grants. these small businesses as you know well from hearing stories in your own district fighting for their lives many of them were disappointed that they didn't get money in the first round, but hear comes the second round. are you confident that the ppp system has been tuned fine tune the point where a company who applies for $30,000 bucks to cover their payroll is not seeing the money but national business chains are getting $20 million? has that been sorted out for

this round? >> well, by having a set aside for very small businesses, we are making it easier for them to participate. just so you know, what it says, that what seemed like a good idea at the time when secretary mnuchin said we'll just go through the banks so that it doesn't have to go through an sba process which takes longer, the banks were just supposed to be a touch stone. the money is guaranteed. the fed has taken loans off the books. so there is no exposure at all for the banks. so for them to have acted as if this was their money and it was going to their preferred customers is really a very sad thing. so we have this set-aside of $60 billion which goes to the community development financial institutions. these are institutions, many of them insured by the fdic, many of them regulated by the

treasury department, well-known and recognized institutions specifically to go into the neighborhood. they know the neighborhoods and the biusinesses and the people and the culture. and we hope that this will accelerate the approval of loans into those communities. so this is separate. so we said we'll do the 250 because the ppp needs that and we fully support small businesses, the great entrepreneurs, the operattimist our country. job creators. but at the same time, seeing the behavior of what happened in that first couple weeks, we got this set-aside. which two weeks ago mitch mcconnell said no, it will never happen, you're delaying things, but it did unanimously in the senate yesterday. and then again with the other increases that we did for the loans, the disaster loans which are used by all of the small

businesses, but very much so by some of these smaller businesses because it is an easier process, and also the grants. we increased the funding for the grants. so it went from 250, 60 more, 310, 60 more, 370. and then another $100 billion for the hospitals and the testing. and this is absolutely urgent. but they resisted that. you have to wonder why, but they resisted it until yesterday. just until over this weekend, they finally agree that had they would negotiate. and the package that they accepted is just about exactlyt would negotiate. and the package that they accepted is just about exactly what the senate democrats put on the floor two weeks ago. and now it is being passed and we'll pass it tomorrow in the house. >> so speaker pelosi, if i'm a small business owner who missed the boat on the first round, how quickly now can i expect that money to come into me? >> well, i hope very quickly.

and we'll make a measure of that. you know, obviously the bright light of public opinion is shining on the process now. i frankly -- i just met somebody this morning on the way here who said, at a distance of course, who said that he got the grant. not the loan, but the grant. so this is the first person that i knew who got something. yesterday by phone, someone told me that he had gotten a loan. so again, it is really anecdotal at this point, not scientific in terms of that it is working. but the world is watching, the world of our economy. and this has a purpose. and the purpose was not to have the banks -- now, i want the banks to be friends to all of this. why want this to be a villainous situation. but they do have to respond almost by computer. facts come in, you get a loan or

not, but it is not about who do i know best on this list. because you have no exposure. it is covered by the sba, it doesn't contribute to any capital requirements and the rest on your sheet, your balance sheet, because the federal reserve has taken it off there. so let's just think in a very positive way. i know people who really enthusiastically looking for $25,000, $30,000 loans, had all their ducks in a row and the rest and just don't even get a response. that really has to stop. and congress will be watching. you can be sure. this is a great deal of money. and one of the things we wanted to be certain of is that hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars were not being used to solidify the disparity of access to capital and to credit that

exists in our economy already. so this is to again take us down a different path, access to credit which businesses want. they want credit, they want to train work force, and you know what else they want? customers. so we have to figure out how many more people participate in our economic largess if you want to call it that. and that is why the state and local is so important. it is not state and local thinking bureaucratically. it is health care workers, police and fire. as i said before, emergency services folks, it is about our teachers, our teachers, our teachers in our schools, our transit workers who enable people to get to work and the rest. it is about all of that. and they have their jobs at risk. hundreds of them. and in one hospital mr. schumer talked about yesterday, being fired because they just don't have the resources. now, some of these hospitals are

public hospitals. so if you want to help education, state and local. if you want to help health care, state and local. if you want to somewhere ppe for our workers, state and local. it is so important as well as the assistance that we're doing for hospitals. which has the protection equipment in it as well. and let me say this one more thing. the american people, god bless them, they have their priorities in order. they respect those who are on the front lines in all of this. they want them to have their personal protective equipment. they respect them, they want them to have job security. and that is really very important. and they also know in large numbers that there is no use rushing out the door too soon is until you have more assurance about the health and well-being of your families. their values are just so

beautiful to behold. god bless them for that. >> it is so remarkable. speaker, for a final question, let's move beyond the pandemic and talk about some big news that i think got overlooked about yesterday perhaps. you talked earlier about a unanimous vote. there was another unanimous vote that we learned about yesterday. i'm reading from the "new york times." on tuesday a long awaited senate review led by members of mr. trump undercut his allegations against the intel community, remember he called them scum earlier this week, a three year review by republican led senate intel committee unanimously found the intel community assessment pinning blame on russia and outlining its goals to undercut american democracy was fundamentally sound and untainted by politics, which the president and his a willing lll been saying for years now. and this is what the republican-led intel committee in the senate concluded.

the committee found no reason to dispute the intelligence community 's conclusions big moves that undercuts 1067 of what t so much of what the president of the united states has said. again calling them scum. something that you would expect from vladimir putin instead of the president of the united states. but a republican-led intel community unanimously said that they got it right in this investigation. what is your reaction? . >> well, i'm not surprised. as a member of the gang of 8, i watched this whole investigation proceed. and it leads you to the question what does vladimir putin have on president trump personally, politically, financially, in every way, that he would choose

putin's words over the intelligence community. and that he would give any currency to a charge that it was the people in the ukraine who had conducted this to divert any culpability away from the russians. something is very wrong there. but this was again -- gives you hope and faith that with the facts and respect for the intelligence that was gathered on it, that it cannot be denied no matter what the president says, it cannot be denied. but it takes us to the next step. they have the told us 24/7 the russians are still at work trying to undermine our election. that is why we have to have an important chunk of money in this next bill that will enable us to have-46 protect the integrity of our elections as well as edge able the american people to vote

by mail especially at this time of a health danger in going to the polls. as well as again just shining a bright light on what they are trying to do to play with people's minds as well as tinker or worse with our critical infrastructure which are our elections. this is the life blood of our democracy, the vote. and so here we are trying to protect the lives of the american people, the livelihoods of the american people. and also the life of our democracy. and that is what we're going to do in the next bill as well. but this is shameful and it really gives lie to what the president has said. we must start to insist on the truth with the president. this is conclusion i came to easter sunday. other people are being political, they are not speaking out strongly enough. and then i realized maybe i'm not either. i don't want to be political, we

want to do this in a unified way. every bill bipartisan. but the fact is if the president refuses to accept evidence, data, truth and the rest, we must insist on the truth because that is the path, whether it is about testing, testintesting, t, which he doesn't want to test because he doesn't want to know the numbers probablily, or he doesn't accept the science of it, but testing in the fullness of it all, contact tracing, isolation, and of course treatment and prevention as well. is we know the path. and now we have to recognize that there is another path. if we have it, when we have it, god willing it will be soon, a vaccine or a cure. we'll have to have a plan, plo preparation prevents poor performance. a plan for how it is distributed to the american people. so it is done so in a way that is fair. >> speaker nancy pelosi, thank

you so much for being on this morning. thank you. >> my pleasure. thank you. happy earth day. still ahead on "morning joe," we're told home tests for coronavirus will be available in the coming weeks. the trump administration has said consumers will not have to worry about costs. but it is not as clear cut as they made it seem. we'll explain that coming up. but first, a look at some of the lives lost from this virus. two first responder parents are hoping their grief can be used to warn others about the dangers of the coronavirus no matter the age. skylar herbert who was a lively 5-year-old girl, loved to dance, when she developed a sore throat. her parents both first responders didn't think the ailment could be the coronavirus as skylar had been home for several days and they had both tested negative. but skylar's condition worsened. she was admitted to the pediatric icu where she died on

sunday surrounded wouldby her ps and her medical team. when you are dealing with a virus like this, we're learning and even now her father said, it doesn't care what color are you are, it doesn't care about your nationality, it doesn't care about your political preference, it is just a monday is iter trying to destroy whatever is in its way. skylar will be remembered for her bubbly and feisty personality and her dreams of becoming a pediatric dentist. aron jordan was the father of seven and grandfather to even is grandchildren. the 49-year-old union brick are layer left his home and family in ashland, kentucky for a job near detroit. unfortunately, that was the last time his family saw him. shortly after the job was completed, jordan realized that he had been exposed to the virus and chose to quarantine at a hotel in detroit instead of risking exposing his family.

on march 31, jordan died from complications of the coronavirus. jordan's family will remember him for his kind heart and unrelenting sense of humor. two time cancer survivor beverly collins was a loving mother of five sons, a long time registered nurse from portland, maine. she specialized in obstetrics and spent her career helping thousands of expectant mothers and sharing wisdom from her own parenting experiences. collin was admitted to the hospital and tested positive for the coronavirus. and died. on april 1 at the age of 83. her family will always remember the kind and intelligent and optimistic woman who did indica dedicated her life to taking care of others. we'll be right back. re of others we'll be right back. i'm your mother in law. and i like to question your every move.

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the fda has approved the first in-home test for the coronavirus. a nasal swab kit that will be sold by lab corps. patients will swab their own nose using a testing kit and mail to the company in an insulated package. the company said the tests would first be available to health care workers and other emergency responders who may have been exposed to the virus. the test will also be available to consumers in the coming weeks at a cost of $119. consumers will have to pay out of pocket for the test and then ask their insurance company for reimbursement. the trump administration has repeatedly said that diagnostic tests for the coronavirus will be covered so that consumers do not have to worry about the costs. willie. our nation's veterans are quickly becoming one of the hardest hit groups impacted by coronavirus. according to the department of

veterans affairs, more than 5500 veterans in v.a. care have tested positive for the coronavirus. 361 of them have died. the death rate among v.a. patients who contract the virus is nearly 6.5%, almost two points higher than the 5% of patients who die from the coronavirus nationally. that is according to the military times. senators amy klobuchar and mike rounds are urging the department of veterans affairs to protect at-risk veterans especially the estimated 3.5 million who have been exposed to burn kits which can cause lung problems. they are asking for tele health services to veterans and to make sure v.a. health facilities have adequate personal protective equipment for health care workers. and senator klobuchar is joining us now. thank you for your time. a lot to get to, but we want to start with the work you're doing for veterans. why is the problem so persistent

among veterans? you can look at some of the long term care facilities, whether holyoke, massachusetts or pa m pennsylvanpnew jersey, and they are being decimated. why are they more vulnerable and what can we do to help them? >> two things. like so many of our senior centers across the country, they are in congregate living facilities on top of each other, there are health care workers that are going in and out that maybe work at other facilities. and of course we've seen tragic situations. the second is many of our veterans are particularly vulnerable especially those that have been exposed to burn pits where things were burned during the iraq and afghanistan wars and we have proof and many, many medical stories about people who developed severe conditions with their lungs because of that.

many have died. and so those people are particularly vulnerable. so that is our story. i get back to square one on every one of these cases. it is exactly what you were talking about earlier with speaker pelosi. this is about testing. we need to test people that are helping our veterans. the last thing they want to do is to get them sick and be the cause of the death. no one wants to do that. but often they don't even know if they have the disease. and we have to make sure that it is available everywhere. that has been the major failing of this administration, they had months to develop a test, i'm here in minnesota where mayo clinic, university of minnesota, we're ready to go, wanted permission to roll out a test, still awaiting permission for a national basis, one of the top labs in the country. they are starting to do it in minnesota, but we'd like to see that test which tests to see if you've had it in the past or if you have it now be rolled out nationally. that is what we want to see. that is a national testing

strategy. >> so senator, the persistent question on the larger question of testing but applied specifically to veterans here is, why isn't there national testing, what is standing between the test that you are talking about in the state of minnesota being ramped up and tested nationally? why isn't it happening? >> you have to go back to the beginning. we have a president that at the republican convention said the words i alone can fix this. then here we are in the middle of a major national crisis and what does he say then? oh, well, i'm backup to the governors. so then you see the governors showing courage, being strong, taking blame, doing whatever is necessary to, a leader. so they are doing that. and then he is in the back seat. but what does he do when it comes to testing? well, you guys all deal with it. no, no, something like testing, something like developing a vaccine and manufacturing a vaccine, those things should be done on the national basis and

that is what we're waiting to see. and one of the reasons why in this latest package we push for the $25 billion for national testing. because we need a national strategy to get this economy working again and to save lives. it is really that simple. >> senator klobuchar, i do want to ask you about the elections, but first, how is your husband doing and how is that experience impacting how you are leading americans through this as best you can? that seems so scary for a while there. >> yeah, it was. and it was one of those early cases and he got a high temperature, he wouldn't go in. luckily he right away decided i'm not going to go to work. people were still going to work back then. and he said he just kept staying at home and then pretty soon he was coughing up blood and finally went and tested it and he had a severe pneumonia, oxygen levels down at 70.

so he was in the hospital five or six days. and one of the hardest things that i learned that so many people know now is, one, you can't be at their bedside. you can't hold their hand. you really don't know what is going on except over the phone. two, you can't hug those health care workers, those nurses that are holding up the phone to his ear so you can talk to him. and now he is home, he is doing incredibly well. we're here together in minnesota. i did learn one manifestation of the disease that is still there is a month later, and that is that, mika, for some reason he still can't clean until the basement. like no, no. >> come on, man. we're at home confined. >> so much dust. dust can trigger it. but any way, he is doing great and i love being with him. so it has been good. but i'm hoping that that story of ours, he is 52 years old and really healthy, i'm hoping that will ken people to see that can

happen to anyone. >> that is my age. yeah, he has a real excuse got to clean the basement i guess. let's talk about mail-in ballots. what needs to be done to shore up the election system across the country? the president has already tried to start undermining the efficacy, whether or not there could be cheats involved. i've never really heard of that as a big issue. i thought our military did it. so i thought it was a pretty well-known practice and process. but is there more that needs to be done given that apparently mail-in balloting is being questioned by the president of the united states and by november, we may not be through this. >> exactly. or we may have calmed down and then come back again. no one knows. and so many of the governor across the country want to plan ahead. you bring up the veterans. our military members, millions of them, have voted by mail and it is good in you have for them,

it should be good enough for us. while those people stood in line in wisconsinin you have for the it should be good enough for us. while those people stood in line in wisconsin in garbage bags, people with masks over their faces to vote, the president was back in the white house at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, he had ordered a mail-in ballot from palm beach, florida. if it is good enough for him, i think those people standing in line should have had access to one. so what this means is expanding funding across the country so that more and more people can vote from home and can use that option. we have seen in wisconsin how many people when given that option used it, but we have to make it easier. and so that is why we somewhew already gotten over $400 million out to help the states, but there is so much more that we have to do to help pay for postage and the envelopes, allowing all of the polling places to be open for 20 days in entrance so we have less people congregating when they do want to go in and vote.

we just afound out that seven people at least got coronavirus out of voting in wisconsin including one poll worker. i mean, that just shouldn't have happened. so i'm very focused on this. i lead the bill with senator ron wir widen to allow us to get more funding in the next legislative package but would also put in? of these reforms which would make it much easier for people to vote across the country. and no matter what the president says, there is a bunch of red states that use this a lot. utah one of the top states for mail-in ballots. republican governors in places like new hampshire and maryland and ohio calling for more mail-in ballots as well as democratic governors across the countr this is a bipartisan issue. people shouldn't have to choose between voting and their health. and i'm telling you, if they mess around with this, look at what just happened in wisconsin.

suburban voters, voters in green bay said we know you're playing politics republican legislature, you won't play them with our lives. so they voted and they voted strong and a lot of them voted democratic. that is what is going to happen if they don't help us to save people's lives. >> senator amy klobuchar, thank u so much for being on. it is great to see you. take care. >> thank you, mika. great to be on. and coming up, with this next round of government aid, will help. that is next on "morning joe." . that is next on "morning joe." you are concerned about keeping your

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. for obvious reasons, the economic impact of the coronavirus has been particularly devastating on the retail industry as clothing and accessory sales fell by more than half in march. and analysts are floating the impending possibility of mass defaults among retailers. lord and taylor let go of its entire executive team this month. it is now considering filing for bankruptcy. jcpenney also was floating the idea of bankruptcy as its shares closed at 23 cents on tdollar last wednesday when it failed to make its interest payment.

m macy's has furloughed most of its workers and closed down all of its locations for two weeks. nordstrom one of the more financially sound retailersing that canceled has canceled and put off payments to vendors saying it could be a distress situation. and perhaps worst of all, the high-end retailer neiman marcus is expected to declare bankruptcy any day as it struggles to handle the 4.8 billion worth of debts. mika, these are some of the biggest names in retail talking about fl about flat-out going out of business. >> incredible. they were already suffering given the fact that a lot of times you would go into a store like that and they would tell you order it online, they didn't have the proper sizes, and now nobody is working. i don't know where this is heading in terms of the economy, but it's looking pretty bleak.

joining us now, president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial. let's start there. >> good morning. >> major companies are considering bankruptcy. the relief package that's been put together and the efforts that the government is making, is it addressing the needs of african-americans, many of whom are being disproportionately impacted by this vire? virus? >> good morning to the morning show audience. the first package that the congress -- the 2.2 trillion package that the congress passed had some features in it which, in concept were excellent. in execution there were problems. for example, the pay protection program we have learned now because of reporting by your sister station cnbc, that two thirds of the money went to

publicly traded companies. i don't believe that that was the vision for a program that's to benefit small businesses. so in the new bill that passed the senate and is expected to receive final passage today, there was some carve-outs in it. there's a $60 billion carve-out for $10,000 emergency disaster loan/grant for the very small businesses. i would encourage them to pursue that money immediately. there's a $60 billion carve-out for rural banks, minority banks, community loan funds, cbfis and the others. these are improvements, but i think so much more needs to be done. the economy is in a self-induced coma, designed to help us save lives and present the spread of this virus. there's a fundamental responsibility that the government has, i believe, to help almost everyone bridge

these troubled waters. so more will need to be done. this is, mika, the challenge of our times. if i say so, it is world war iii. >> mike barnicle is with us. you have the next question for marc. >> hey, mike. >> marc, if anybody is out there who did not believe coming into this situation that there are at least two americas, the virus casualty rate in minority communities would certainly point that out. so going forward, given the catastrophic attack the virus has made on minority communities in the united states, what has to be done -- what can realistically be done in the immediate future -- not long term -- immediate future about access to health care, access to health insurance in these minority communities. >> let me frame it both ways. so the short -- we've got to make sure that testing is going

to be universally and equitiably available, and that treatment, medicines, when they were designed, are covered, and finally a vaccine that is universally and equitiably available and not some people in the front of the train and others in the caboose. that's the short run. going forward on access, number one, i think those states that have not expanded medicaid need to do so immediately. it would have a very significant effect on health access disparities. number two, i think it's time to take the step to allow people age 50 to enroll in the medicare program, and then thirdly, we need a public option. so we've got to fix these access issues that could easily be fixed. i think there's tremendous support for this, so that everyone is covered, so that we can shift our system from a sick care system to a system that

prevents acute, chronicic and difficult health problems. that to me is very doable. in the short run, we have to make sure the testing, vaccine, treatments are universally available. we need the hand of the federal government and principle of equity, inclusion and universal access. these access issues are issues for urban communities, but i'm learning they're issues for rural communities, indian country and small cities. in georgia, for example, many communities have no hospital at all. marc morial, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. good to have you. in the final moments here, mike barn barnicle, ten seconds or less, what's your gut looking at today? >> my gut is we are just

wallowing in mediocrity, and that's the basic problem. >> let's hope that changes. for willie, joe and me, that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after this final break. e coverage after this final break.

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♪ hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is wednesday, april 22nd. here are the facts we know this hour. the senate has approved nearly half a trillion in new spending to help americans who have lost jobs and businesses during the pandemic. it replenishes a program to give loans to small businesses and adds an extra $100 billion for hospitals and coronavirus testing. the house is expected to pass it tomorrow, and president trump could sign it by the end of the week. speaking of the president, he says he will sign an order today to suspend the approval of new green cards, arguing it will ensure t